Can Cyprus ever be reunited? An hour long debate hosted by Iain Dale

[Music] foreign good evening it's four minutes past nine on LBC I'm Ian Dale I want to talk about Cyprus in this uh of the program because it's a it's a country that many people in Britain have been on holiday too A lot of people own property there um but it's a country if you haven't been there I'm not sure that many of us know an awful lot about it but we we sort of know that there's a split we know that there's a split between the South and the north but I wonder how many of us really understand the reasons for that um they've been various initiatives over the years to try and either reunite the island or come up with a solution where there's two separate states so at the moment you've got the Republic of Cyprus which is the southern bid and then you've got Northern Cyprus which is effectively the the Turkish bit of the island now I could go into a long Exposition about the history of Cyprus and how that's come to pass but we've got two guests that are going to be with us um over the course of the next half an hour and then we're going to come to your calls and after quarter past nine I'm going to be talking to the cypriot High Commissioner to London but first I want to welcome Us in tata to the studios leader of the Turkish cypriot community and president of North Cyprus um thank you very much for Mr Mr President maybe I should say thank you very much for joining us in the studio now um North Cyprus is not recognized by any country in the world as a state apart from Turkey it's not recognized by the United Nations and given that the situation has existed since 1974. um why should other nations recognize North Cyprus as a as a separate entity if you go back into history after the ottoman times the British list and then after the first World War the British according to us annexed and the need laws are like in 1923 it became under British sovereign rule during those times the Greeks with their Elgar movement were into gangs and other attempts to unite Cyprus with Greece and this was not allowed because even Britain United Kingdom did at the same time it said here there exists two peoples to communities but in literature peoples because you've got the Turks who are Turkish Islam different culture different history different experience and degrees and in 1960 Republican cycles of which the United Kingdom is a guarantor power it does say explicitly in there that from Cyprus you have two peoples one is turkey historian people the other one Greek Sovereign people so Greeks are not more Sovereign than the Turks therefore since there are more of them or could be but we have more living outside of Cyprus we have more Turkish people living in Anatolia than in Cyprus we have probably as many here in the UK and other places and therefore as a people regardless of the population we are a Soven as Greek Cyprus therefore we are co-founders of the Republic of cycles and as a distinct people we deserve to have our own self-determination this is the international parameter that if you are a people you should have a say of your future and in the unknown plan we did say yes to this comprehensive this was a 2004 yes your community said yes and the Greek secret said no and we were promised that if we said yes to this plan then all the unmarked and isolations would be lifted so the Turkish ziploots will be more comfortable with their economy and all the rest of it but unfortunately they said no if having said no they were rewarded by being into Europe without even Consulting neither the turkey ship it was co-founders of the Republic of Cycles turkey therefore it's tilted against us with the European block behind them therefore now the new policy we have our own sovereignty we have had a different state separate State for the last six years since December 1963 Turkish shipyards have had their own State Greek Cyprus with the Republican disciples on their own but it's not recognized by anybody we have been able to survive with independence with our honor with our dignity otherwise for the last six years there have been a lot of attempts in fact according to one former Greek foreign minister 15 different United Nations proposals have all been rejected by degrees C plus because their whole aim was to make the Turkish Cyprus a minority we will never accept to be a minority because we are factually or numerically they are in Europe they have a veto power against all the others within with less than one million population he stands next to Germany Italy as an independence day they are in my own country just because the numbers have been such generated that there was a few hundred thousand more that doesn't mean that a sovereignty wise I should be I can see that but the fact is that turkey invaded Northern Cyprus no no no because because we call Turkey because we would have gone through another genocide we did go through the genocide in the 1960s as did the British with the aoka movement they killed a lot of British soldiers to unite disciples to Greece and you were in a lot of trouble but then the Republican disciples they thought was the solution because it would have been a stable environment coexisted together but unfortunately it only lasted for three years because maharos did say the same this is just a stepping stone to illnesses okay all they had in mind United Cycles to Greece therefore the church had to be protected and the motherland turkey because of her Universal intervention right as a guarantorporary moving to protect the Turkish shipyards well I'm sure I'm sure the separate High commission will have a different view to that when I speak to him a bit later this is your kind of splitting hairs on sort of the the terms here it is a very fundamental issue for Turkish people our security our well-being and our existence is very important that's why we say coexistence I forgot to know States two states next to each other I've read an article that you've written from the capex website today um which is full of invective against the Greeks but not there isn't a lot in it that shows the way forward apart from saying that there should be a two-state solution um it strikes me that the the I mean not a couple of hundred miles uh to the east of Cyprus is Israel where if if when I have conversations with the Palestinian Ambassador or the Israeli Ambassador it seems to me as if it's a very similar conversation here where neither side seems to be willing to understand the arguments of the other side my uh feeling is that the Galaxy plus know the problem the Turkish people are different people they're the different people reciprocity dictates that we should respect each other since we have had our own set for the last six years and they have got their own Republic down in this household the last six years let's get together neighbor leadership so I am offering two states cooperating together in terms of economy in terms of environment in terms of energy we have brought in water from Turkey which is major project billum transmitter investment we can share the water together we can do all socialing together and uh giving the new technology and the new do you think of one state solution is dead because if I I mean okay it's difficult for me to put myself in the position of a cypriot whether it's Turkish or Greek but if I was a cypriot I think I would want my Island to be United it's a bit like in Ireland that a lot of people want the island of Ireland we have had a very bitter experience in the past we have suffered a lot in 1960 we had this Vision also but it didn't last very long because of their ambition to relate with this national pride this morning that's not going to happen now no one's suggesting that so basically we have had our own State for the last six years and there's no going back less cooperate less cooperate in a very uh in Democratic way so that we can work for our people we can coexist if we can co-exist it will be a win-win situation uh disciples can be twice as big as Dubai because I respect them they're entrepreneurs they are very able people so are the Turkish people get together so so let's work out a practical solution it's got to be practical it's got to be sustainable it's got to be work for you it's got to be sellable to your voters in Northern Cyprus and that you you might personally I mean I'm not trying to put words into your mouth here but you might personally think well yeah I would quite like to have a one-state solution but I don't think I'll be able to sell that to my people well basically our people are very concerned about the security because we have sacrificed a lot we've gone through in a way I don't want to say but genocide then we don't want to go back all those times what we want is our security and our confidence that we can exist with our own sovereignty that's why we say two Sovereign equals States cooperating together for the well-being of all cypriots and obviously Cyprus is a regional balance between turkey turkey and Greece that's very important and now that Europe is in Europe and if there is a federal agreement as they always thought should would be Cyprus will be holy in Europe because turkey turkey is not in Europe turkey will be out and they are they are asking that after a settlement turkey will have to pull out turkey will go and Turkish guarantee will be expired this is unfair on Turkey because we are always together with turkey turkey is our motherland and turkey has done just on that I mean you have been accused of being president erdogan's puppet well I mean I don't say that as an insult but that is an accusation that people have made give me one occasion why you've disagreed with them well basically my policy is that I should be in full Conformity with turkey because turkey is a big cover a substantial Aid economic aid that's not Ukraine saying that once you're being full Accord with Russia I mean it doesn't work does it if you want to be an independent nation our relationship with turkey as well as we are concerned is so significant that we in all aspects of life we try to cooperate with motherland turkey because motherland turkey has always sacrificed a lot for the Turkish Cyprus they've lost a lot because they supported turkey plus troops were in Cyprus all over the place but they always have been with the Turkish Cyprus because they believed in us they believed in our security and basically our relationship is constructive because we are important for Turkish security turkey is only 40 miles away from Turkey Sonia when you wake up in the morning in Korea you can see the mountains the turkey and when they've had this earthquake on the 6th of February we felt it in Cyprus so near therefore a lot of Dimensions to the Cyprus problem and turkey our mother is of critical Essence just finally how optimistic are you that if we were sitting here in 10 years time assuming that both of us are still here in 10 years time are you optimistic that though that we will be either nearer some sort of agreed diplomatic solution between the Republic of Cyprus and Northern Cyprus or do you do you fear that the the status quo that has existed for so long will still be there I want the international committee and especially the United Kingdom the United Power has worked responsibilities and the British know the problem inside was much better than would you like Britain to take a diplomatic initiative yes it should twist the arms a little bit more to come nearer to a practical solution I will repeat again for a solution disciples you know to be practical it's got to be fair it's got to be sustainable you don't want an agreement in Cyprus which will lead to internal conflict again because that will be damaging we have had peace on the island for the last nearly 50 years after the Turkish intervention and this piece is very valuable not only for the Turkish people also for the greekship plus they have had their economic Prospect why because there is peace on the island stability on the Iran why do Turkish troops having the insurance policy for peace and security and forcibility therefore we have to develop devise a solution forward so that we can coexist and since we have two different states on the island I am offering my Greek friends and I respect their ability I respect their entrepreneurship and I want to coexist but the only way to coexist in the future after all these experiences two states side by side in good relationship for both Turkish zippers and great plus because once we have a solution it will be a win-win situation okay Turkish Republic for example doesn't recognize the Greek Republic town in the South when we have an agreement Turkish ports will be open to degrees with Turkish airspace a win-win situation it will be for the benefit of all C plus so I propose and I beg them to reconsider their approach to disciples problem and to respect the reality I have to give equal time to our next guest so I've got to leave it there thank you very much we've already got lots of calls on the board if you'd like to uh phone in with your views on the the separate situation after half past nine and you can do so right now on 0345 6060973 it's 18 minutes past nine LBC [Music] uh 20 one it's past nine well you've heard from the Turkish cypriot side of the argument now we're going to hear from the Greek cypriot side Andreas kakaris joins me the Republic of cyprus's High Commissioner to the United Kingdom what a great job title that is Andreas thank you very much indeed for joining us um to The Outsider to people who know nothing about this uh this whole issue it does seem ludicrous that an island with a population of about 1.3 million is split into two what would you like to see happen now well firstly thank you for giving me the opportunity to be uh with you this evening um look I think it's important to to put the situation to a into a context uh the island is split because of a continuing Turkish occupation that actually correctly uh correctly referred to it as an invasion back in 1974. our effort uh the effort to the government to the public of Cyprus the evidence of the president president of leaders is to get back to the negotiating table to find a solution that reunites the island the people's social fabric within the established framework of a by Zona bicominal Federation with single sovereignty single International personality and a single citizenship and with political quality is defined in un Security Council resolutions that is the frame but what wasn't wasn't that exactly what was proposed in the Kofi Annan report in 2004 which uh Turkish cypriots voted in the referendum to accept but Greek cypriots didn't where you're right that turkishipers voted in favor and Greek supports uh did not and I think you would need to ask yourself the question why did the Greek cypriots overwhelmingly uh vote not to accept the UNAM plan uh you have the community that has lost the most by being under occupation why would they not want to vote in favor of a solution it's because the anime plan did not solve the Cyprus problem it did not deal with fundamental issues such as the withdrawal of Turkish troops uh the right of intervention that turkey claims it has so there were fundamental issues that were not dealt with at that time and that is amongst the main reasons why the Anam plan did not go forward but there's not been the end of the efforts resolution those have continued since then and what has changed is the position of the Turkish side which Mr Tata quite eloquently set out is what they want is two states that is outside of the framework that has been agreed by both communities but also by National community and has referenced in countless U.N security Council resolutions so the change in the efforts for a solution have come from the Turkish side that no longer wants to work towards reuniting the island the people and the social fabric but want to use the uh the The Spoils of War that might his right to have two states on the island and that's something that we won't uh we won't accept and that is something that the International Community has been very clear on too is it I mean I I said this to Mr Tata though is this something where you would welcome a British diplomatic initiative to at least scope out what might be possible not to have maybe formal negotiations because I'm not sure that either side would would necessarily agree on on at the moment on what should be negotiated on but it is now the time and we have the as we say the Anon uh initiative in 2004 there have been other initiatives since then but none of which have come to anything do you think now is the time maybe for Britain to take a diplomatic initiative look for United kingdom is is an important player in the efforts for a solution Cyprus problem it's a guarantor power it's a P5 member Security Council the efforts for a solution are under the Aegis of the UN their secretary generals good officers as well so that is where the framework and the efforts for a solution come from the president president has been making a big push since his election to get a greater engagement of the European Union uh in the efforts for a solution that is what we're doing at the time efforts by countries to support a solution the Cyprus problem based on that framework is something that is welcomed but I think at this moment in time we're all looking at is what's going to happen in the elections in Turkey coming May and hopefully efforts for to to get back to the table to find the solution can restart it there have been efforts many efforts after 2004 trans Montana in 2017 was the last big effort and we want to get back to the negotiating table and move from where we left off the crowns Montana in 2017. what what is the relationship like between Mr tata's Administration and your government I mean because often you you I mean it's a bit I I hesitate to make the israeli-palestine comparison because obviously it doesn't it doesn't quite match but I mean I know that the Israeli Prime Minister and the and um other ministers in his government have lots of talks behind the scenes with the Palestinian Authority I mean presumably there have to be talks um and I think over the last few years there have been so there has been a sort of lessening of tensions as I think a couple more border crossings have been opened but how deep do those contacts go if I may because languages is important you just use the word border there there are no borders well there is a border no well it is because you've got U.N troops policing it yeah there is a ceasefire line and a buffer zone borders denotes different states I think you're splitting hairs to be fair but I mean I mean people can't freely cross whatever you want to call it people people do cross uh the buffer zone but I think we need to respect international law which has declared that the entity in the Turkish occupied part of Cyprus is not recognizing correctly pointed uh that out and Mr Tata who claims to be the president of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus that doesn't exist as an international legal entity which Security Council declared illegal and void there are the efforts to get back to the table will be between uh to get Mr tata's lead of the Turkish super Community back to the table with you haven't quite answered my question do the two of them talk on a daily weekly monthly yearly basis that the president when he was elected but before he took over sought to meet Mr tala oh Mr Tata which he did in the presence of the UN a representative Libyan Cyprus so that was his Outreach even before taking office to impress upon Mr Tata that the situation in Cyprus cannot continue as it is we cannot have a situation uh nearly 50 years on of a divided Island a divided people uh Greek and Turkish separate are separates they are separate people whether of Greek origin or Turkish origin but there is a separate whether he is Greek Turkish malonite or Armenian and I take exception to what Mr tatala said that that does not exist if you go down to parts of London Greek and Turkish cypriots uh have the green grocer next to the Halal butcher you wouldn't know which of the two is Greek or which of the two or which of the other is is Turkish so there is a people one people called the separate people and that is what we're trying to reunite again and I would also just make this point that the overwhelming majority of Turkish cypriots have applied and received their separate passports their separate ID cards which allows a Turkish cypriot today to study on France to reside in Germany or to work in Sweden courtesy of the fact that they are cypriot citizens not because of a Turkish occupation or a so-called trnc citizenship I I hear what you say but from my reading today to prepare for these interviews um I'm sure I've read that it it's actually it's quite cumbersome quite difficult for toker cypriots to get all of this documentation could you not make that process a little easier I have turkey separates that come to the high commission here in London to apply for their passports and their ID cards and they get them in exactly the same way as a Greek super it does or an Armenian separate does or a marinade separate does and they get those those same documentations uh inside Pursuit as long as they can prove that they are of separate origin let me finish by asking you the same question that I asked to Mr Tata if we're sitting here in 10 years time are you optimistic that things will have changed that there will be better relations so there could be a unitary state or do you think we're just going to go through all of this over the next few years time after time and nothing will change if we were sitting opposite each other 25 30 years ago and unlikely in my case I said to you that a pathside would have ended in South Africa the Berlin wall and in Germany well there would have been a peace process in Northern Ireland I think we would have smiled at each other but it happened and it can happen what we need to be able to move forward is to get a Turkish side that is willing to sit at the table to find a solution that reunites the island the people on the island of Cyprus okay to have a common future together as a country that's a member of the European Union as well and I think there is a bright future if we can go down that path but to go down that path I need turkey to recognize that the notion of Might is right it's not the one that's going to lead us to a solution we're prepared to do everything we can to get a solution to get to the negotiating table as soon as we can hi commissioner thank you very much indeed for joining us on the LBC that's Andreas kakoris who is the High Commissioner for the Republic of Cyprus well we're going to come to your calls in a moment um do you see a Way Forward what would you like to see happen now particularly Keen to hear from you obviously if you are from the Greek cypriot Community or the Turkish separate community in the UK or I know we have listeners in Cyprus too it's 9 33 News Headlines with Daryl Jackson the immigration Minister has upset some MPS in his own party with his idea to house thousands of Asylum seekers in military bases it's to cut the amount of money being spent on hotels the Vatican says Pope Francis needs to spend a few days in hospital for treatment for a respiratory infection it's a six-year-old has come in Berlin this evening it's part of the first state visit of the new Monarch's Reign LBC weather heavy outbreaks of rain across western and southern areas tonight a breezy and rather mild night with lows of five this is LBC text Richard from loncast has a fascinating conversation on something I'm ashamed to say I knew nothing about well you're not alone in that Rishi you shouldn't be ashamed because nobody can keep across every every different conflict Zone in the world but I do think this does have a particular resonance for Britain given uh the fact that Britain used to rule Cyprus and given the fact that we still have military bases there and right let's go to your calls interested to hear what you made of those two interviews and what do you think the future for Cyprus should be and if you are from the Greek side of the argument do you actually understand the case that the Turkish side is making and vice versa Hassan is in chess and hello Hassan Hi Ian how you doing very well thank you what would you like to say I'm from a cypriot Turkish background myself so I wanted to just uh kind of put it across from our perspective I guess I mean whilst everyone agrees on what the historical causes are you'll notice that obviously where the narrative begins from uh is different on both sides because both communities were affected in different ways so at the end of the day I think that the recipients in and of themselves although there are common cypriot customs and commonality and culture and and things of this nature the the reality is in and of ourselves we don't really have power over the geopolitical situation it's Turkey Greece and and the UK basically and it's heavily kind of rooted in geopolitics so the realistic also would be mutual recognition so for turkey to recognize the The Roc and for the North and the South to recognize each other as separate independent states although that would look obviously at first glance quite awkward because of how small the island is uh I could see a stalemate going on for another 50 years if it stays as it is being recognized and being isolated so forget the geopolitics of all of this in your heart would you like to see one Cyprus that would be an ideal situation yeah that would be an ideal solution but it's I just can't see that as realistic or rooted in reality the gentleman earlier for example uh the argument over the board the reality is the ROC Republic of Cyprus has no sovereignty in the north he exercises no control so that is the reality well that those are two different things it does actually have sovereignty over the north but it doesn't have any control it doesn't have any executive Authority in in reality whether on paper or not but the reality is I just can't see uh them breaking the deadlock because they try the unitary state solution then they tried a federation kind of based on the The Swiss model with the Kofi Annan plan yeah which I think was actually a workable plan when he first started talking about this he seemed to be wanting to resurrect that and saying that that that could be the basis for a solution but then said he wouldn't accept two separate states so I was slightly confused by that um the thing is the thing is an issue that it failed on last time which is the security issue uh on how many troops should remain because I think from the cypriot Turkish perspective being a minority there's more concern about uh discrimination or security based on things that happened in the past I think under British rule the cypriot Turks were not discriminated against in any way whereas we felt that because at the time it was slightly different there was a whole uniting with Greece thing which was slightly different but this as for cypriots in and of themselves governing themselves that could work but it's a matter of turkey and Greece solving their differences it's always been the case yeah which I guess I guess from the Greek point of view I mean if there was a United Cyprus it would be one country and therefore it would be unacceptable to have Turkish troops stationed on the island so if there was if there were military concerns maybe there there would have to be some sort of British peacekeeping force or I mean I'm not sure peacekeeping force is the right expression but I I can see from their point of view why why on Earth would they accept Turkish soldiers or on cypriot soil they wouldn't and at the end of the day that comes down to the whole sovereignty issue and versus security or minority rights that's where the the whole thing fell apart the last time um well you know but personification had had bad experiences so Hassan if you and I were involved in the negotiations I suspect that they might get a bit further than they have so far but there we are um Aisha says why was the High Commissioner allowed to respond to president tata's views but president tartar not allowed the same well for a very simple reason because one had to go before the other and as it was um people who offered the interview we thought we'd go first with him there's no agenda on my part here I can assure you let's go to uh Adrian who's the first time caller in Barnett hello Adrian good evening hi what would you like to say well Ian uh thanks for you know bringing this to people's attention I don't think many people in the UK are aware of what's happened in Cyprus and as you said at the beginning of the program go then holiday and don't really know that there's an illegal occupation that's ongoing uh so thank you initially for that and I just wanted to take a step back and Rewind back to 1974 and the one thing to take uh take into consideration and and to always remember is that there was an illegal Invasion and if we would never accept the illegal invasion of Russia in Ukraine and I don't think LBC or anyone in the UK would give a platform to the so-called president of Crimea or other regions that have illegally claimed their so-called Independence through the illegal invasion of Russia why on Earth are we even entertaining uh a two-state solution that would legitimize an illegal Invasion and in legal occupation that has been ongoing for such a long time because turkey is not willing to own up to the atrocities are carried out and it's illegal methods of imposing itself on separate people well I thought you're going to say why on Earth would we have had um the centata on the program at all in that case which um I was about to Marshal my arguments as to why it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do I think the honest answer is that because this has been going on for 50 years now if you just want to accept the status quo forever and a day fine then don't even talk about these things but given that it is um well it is actually 49 years isn't it so it's it's nearly nearly half a century I think it is probably this is probably a good time given that there has been no diplomatic initiative since 2017 for something to start and it has to start somewhere I'm not grandiosely saying that we can start it by having this conversation tonight but at least it brings it to people's attention I think it's fantastic that LBC has brought this people's attention the one the one the one I like to make as a representative of a Youth Organization a youth organization that has Greek separate members Turkish separate members Armenian separate members Maronite separate members and all who only come to the events and we all get along and the difference between the youth and SC in Qatar or other people of that generation is that we look forward and looking forward we want one Cyprus we want a peacefully coexist we understand that the past has caused pain and we don't want to relive that but of course some might speak Greek some might be Christian some might be speak Turkish some might be Muslim however we have something in common and that's Cyprus and the fact that we are cypriots and of course we can peacefully coexist and of course we can live in one Cyprus and most cypriots don't want a division they would never accept that so if we want to be in touch with reality as international law of Justice we could never accept an illegal Invasion an illegal occupation the way we react to Russia and what is done in Ukraine is really how we should be reacting to Turkey and what it's done in Cyprus there's no difference that's been by force it's been by legal means and it's really unacceptable and I agree with you and look I was only 11 years old in 1974 so I I imagined there was a huge International outcry um can you just I'm going to read a text here but maybe you can answer the question it's from Tay he says I'm half Turkish cypriot the Republic of Cyprus rejected the unplanned because they wanted Turkish troops to leave Cyprus but not Greek troops the Turkish people do not want to be under a Greek state that pretends to be a cypriot state after almost 15 years of intercommune communal violence it's like asking Ireland to be back under British rule the only way this is possible is if the Next Generation remove the historical grudges well I think that last sentence is very important here um but it I mean obviously I don't know how old you are Adrian but it's the the what's the reason for the Greek cypriots rejecting the annum report because it it would have um it would have meant that Greek troops would have had to leave Cyprus million that's ever been a problem and if you look at the arrangement from the 1960s 1960 Constitution and uh the agreements then we're talking about a few hundred Greek troops which is constitutional they they are meant to be there just like turkey could have a few hundreds according to the agreement back in 1960. we're not talking about 40 000 soldiers that turkey illegally has on the island there's a huge difference I am sure that any Greek cypriot would say that at any given moment if Turkey says today we're willing to take our 40 000 soldiers off the island they would very much support if if the few hundred Greeks holders leave as well of course we would accept that of course we would you know comparing comparing an apple to a pair is not really helpful right and they do the one thing you know the one thing I would I would just add to that argument is that um just like the Turkish separate Community demand that we respect their concerns about security they equally need to put that thought about us it's not normal to expect any Greek cypriot to feel safe with 40 000 Turkish holders remaining on the island after what happened in 1974. okay fine Adrian thank you very much indeed for that I met him in London says turkey did not illegally invade in 1974 fact it was a peace operation sanctioned by guarantor Powers let's get our facts correct Greece invaded Cyprus in 1974 which started the war in the first place I think that is should we say a slight perversion of history in fact a major perversion but um listen I'm not the expert if you want to take issue with that give us a call it's 9 40 to 8. [Music] as technology leaders and experts call for an urgent halt to the development of artificial intelligence are we at risk of blindly sleepwalking into Oblivion Ben kentish on LBC anyone on LBC lots of you responding on text and tweets saying that had the Turkish had said the jokes not invaded in 1974 there was a strong possibility of the Turkish cypriots being ethnically cleansed well again I I can't pass judgment on that but um I thought I'd throw that into the mix uh Ken is in Edmonton hello Ken hello Ian how are you very well thank you what would you like to say good thanks for the opportunity um the the site it's quite often the the Greek Cyprus tried to say that it's the Cyprus situation started in 74. in fact this is wrong it started back in 1963 because in March 4th 1964 the United Nations came to the island as a result of Greek cypriot attacks on Turkish Subaru community in Christmas 1963 and that the U.N have been here since March 1964. so let's get that straight the second thing is I want to say on the 15th of July 1974 Greece instigated a coup on the island and overthrew the elected Archbishop macarios of the island there was five days of Bloodshed between the Greeks themselves and on the 19th of July 1974 macarios the dethroned president went to the United Nations and said Greece this is an invasion of the island by Greece and it and it called for help to stop this Invasion and that is this is these are facts these are easily rechecked if anyone bothered to look on Google and check it out macario's speech the United Nations security Council on the 19th of July 1974. okay listen um I'm grateful for the history lesson but what we're really asking is what's the future going to be well the negotiations have been going on since 1968 not not from 74 there have been 17 possible solutions that the Greek cypriots have rejected and this is according to Nicos rolandis former Greek cypriot foreign minister this can be checked as well 17 have been rejected by them okay but what what about the future the future is obviously we've we've negotiated for nearly 50 years for a federation it's not worked things have to change the only solution now is a two-state solution there cannot be anything else because we've tried one route it's stupid to keep trying the same solution when you know for the last 50 odd years it's not worked it's time to get a change a different tact a different solution and the best solution it seems to be to stop the squabbling between the two court communities and prevent further Wars and bloodshed is a two-state solution with the present borders being in situ okay Ken thank you very much let's go to Aaron who is in borehamwood hello Erin hi they um thank you for having me on especially for this very important subject as you know there's a large separate community in the UK both Greek separates and Turkish separates so it's it's important for all of us and do those two communities get on in the UK is there any friction there well I think well conveniently enough president errson Tatar had a talk today at King's College London and there was a huge anti-turkish racist rally preventing him from trying to get into the building so even though that obviously are examples of Greeks and church getting on absolutely well we can't deny that there is hatred that still exists especially amongst the youth uh even in South Cyprus you can see that it is the fascist parties their membership is made up of the Greek cypriot use so this hatred and historical Grudge is not going away it still exists to this day and therefore I support Ken who was just before me and the president as a two-state solution is the only viable and sustainable solution that that is suitable for the island of Cyprus but the Greek cypriots won't entertain a two-state solution so where'd you go from that then the trnc and president Erickson Tata have to pursue Their Own Way Forward uh they have to follow the kosfo method which isn't unilaterally um recognized by the International Community it has to go their own way and they've already began making strides they're an observer member of the organization of turkic States they do meet with International um International organizations and they are now beginning to meet with other states such as Azerbaijan Pakistan there are other countries that support the plight of the Turkish cypriot people and their their Pursuit for recognition and Independence it has only been in the last two years that they've really reached for this two-state solution the Turkish siblings before that have fully been on board for a federal solution and it was only 2017 at crowns Montana where the Greek cypriot delegation walked away we've we've heard about that Aaron thank you we've only got two minutes left someone to balance it up uh with Chrissy in Romford hello Chrissy Hi Ian thanks for taking my call thank you very much for highlighting the issue um I was 10 years old when the 74 Invasion took place in Cyprus and I I consequently made a refugee and moved to the UK I really I'm really quite incensed at the propaganda that's been um you know portrayed tonight in the program in particular Mr Tartus comments that and the language that's being used the physiology that turkey intervened to stop the Greek cypriot government from making the Turkish Secrets a minority which I challenged him on and as you quite rightly pointed out in fact it trying to make them a minority they invaded a sovereign state and it and turkey illegally occupied occupress that is the legal entity that is recognized by the International Community you can't dispute that do we need do we need to have a by you know to have two Community the two communities can live together it's been proven and all this propaganda about you know that there's hatred that's absolute rubbish you need to visit Cyprus to see how the youth coexist you know with their counterparts you know you have to experience it another really interesting Chrissy time time has beaten us I'm afraid we've reached the end of the hour it's one of those occasions where I wish we had another hour but Ben kentish wouldn't like that so we're gonna have to finish it there Chrissy thank you very much indeed and thanks to everyone for contributing to this hour and the rest of the program I'll be back tomorrow from seven and tomorrow I'll be joined in the studio by Dr Sean Williams you'll know her as a distinguished news broadcaster on your TV screens but these days she's a qualified psychologist working in the NHS and she'll be taking your calls on mental well-being and dealing with trauma coming up at one on LBC is Richard spur but right now here's Ben kentish Ian thank you very much yes good evening all coming up the pace at which they've accrued capabilities has exceeded our expectations and we're worried about what this might mean looking ahead today technology lead is an expert try once again to warn us of the massive risk that artificial 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