Zebby Matthews! Matt Boyd! - The Craft Podcast w/ Nick Pollack & Eno Sarris

[Music] oh man what is happening y'all all right we are live with the craft uh my name is Nick pul this is a pitching podcast and this is our first episode live on YouTube it's also on Twitter uh so make sure if you're watching this on Twitter go to our YouTube channel uh the craft pitching podcast uh where all these episodes will be moving forward and guess what my special guest this week I know I can't believe that he uh actually answered my call this week um it is Enos Maris you know it's so good to see you good to see you too yeah and then uh my child that upstairs has one more day before he is out of my hair and back at school oh man wow right that's what happens right now this is this is a big thing I've actually been talking about with simoli and stuff and like how does it affect the baseball season and everything and uh congratulations yeah I took I took my other son he's at school today for his first day the older one to snail versus sale snail versus sail I went to I went and saw snail uh we verus snail we saw yeah we saw sail versus snail and we got for like 45 bucks 30 rows behind home plate oh my gosh Monday night and oh my gosh that is so good we got to see those release points you know and my son loves Snell so it was really cool see the super over the top and then the the super sideways and we could see the movement of the pitches it reminded me of when I was growing up in Atlanta and I got to see Maddox and glavin and Smoltz from behind home play a little bit and uh and so he really he lit up and he had a great day this wasn't the first time you saw sail behind home plate right Snell no but have you seen sail behind home plate before this might have been the first time yeah like in the seats for sure but the one uh thing that really cool about uh Giants working Giants games they have the best Press Box in the big leagues oh yeah it is like literally behind home plate so you get to see the movement ones oh it's it's low it's not above yeah it's really low man Prime seating I mean I someday I just expect to like come to find out that they've moved us somewhere but but now it's the best Press Box in baseball so but yeah it was really to see it with him and we were trying to predict like oh what's he going to throw now you know we're fast Cur you know what's he going to do what's he going to do and uh just just geeking out on those two pitchers which are really really good pitchers and uh it was a good day and so today with the younger son uh we're going to one of those ramen places where we have to wait in line that's that's that's what he gets for there it is of course his day by the way um I I think I want to say like in 2016 or something like that uh when s was on the White Sox I have a friend of mine who's here in in New York Big White Sox man home since college and he was able to get like behind home plate tickets for us for a sale Yankee game I think Serano hit a home run in this one yeah and the thing is the two seamer you don't really understand how that looks uh that really just looks like a just a complete just last minute no this is not going straight at all kind of pitch because if he come from that angle it really is just straight until eventually it's just like absolutely not um the initial force of it is there and then it just takes over with the spin I imagineit movement his pit yeah it does and his pitch movement numbers don't don't fully line up with what the experien is behind the plate I don't think yeah because because of his arm angle you know when you look at the pitch movements you're like oh he doesn't throw a sweeper but when you stand behind home plate and you see him throw that slider back foot to to to righties it looks like a sweeper looks like it's it looks like the longest thing you've ever seen just like this long like just the craziest thing and so he's throwing that thing and then he's throwing something that looks exactly like that that then goes the other direction yeah so it's it's almost Sinker slider but for some reason it's it's not as platoon splitty as you'd expect and it's it's Bonkers BEC well I think what happens with with sales slider specifically that unbelievable horizontal movement especially at that arm angle too where it's already so far away the number of times I've seen batters just completely give up on that slider and then come back door for a strike is insane and it's kind of funny I was thinking about this where I talk about it with right-handers thrwing sweepers so lefties and they try to do back door but it doesn't really work and I think it's because a lot of them aren't really the extreme of sale so far away they're doing it mechanically rather than sort of naturally out of the arm slot I think yeah right right you know they they're they're manipulating the ball a little bit to sweep so I think that it harder when you're manipulating the ball I think it makes it harder a lot of the best pitches you um you know in terms of command in terms of nastiness are the pitcher saying well I just throw it like my fast ball and let the do everything I mean Mariana Rivera's cutter was just whatever I don't know the other thing that really stood out for me uh watching snail behind uh home plate was um i' I'd read recently that um that is supposedly a more ful arm slau you know for mechanics interesting and uh and so him and SN and Snell were both throwing 97 right but uh supposedly it was less stressful uh for for for Snell and his slot this was you know who's been more injured in the past you know um with sale I remember this a lot with uh the white socks I mean that was also the popular time of the W you know W whatever yeah and and S was one of them and how he's throwing and everything but I remember this distincly s was the guy that reportedly could fit himself inside a box like he was so flexible yeah and I I gotta say I'm thinking about this a lot um you know in the future I hope to be really working more with Youth Development essentially and what is the number one thing I think about myself when pitching I see a lot of these guys and think about extension think about just General Health of moving these really muscular limbs it's flexibility the guys who are most flexible I are generally healthier I would think uh and it doesn't surprise me to hear that with with sale doesn't surprise me that Aaron judge has a really healthy or healthier season this year when he's really moved into yoga and stuff um arietta talked about that for himself um I really do believe that the it's really easy and a sport dominated by men to say like oh yeah it's got to be muscles I don't want to do yoga uh I get that I think that's changing a little hopefully it is and the benefits of that I think are really big and it's how s is able to I don't know not be as injured as he could have been from that arm slaught yeah I mean there's very few people who've thrown 97 from that arm slot like I oh my gosh Randy Johnson and he wasn't doing that too we don't appreciate this from sale like this is is not just standard sale he hasn't been this way since like 2018 right so there's been some recovery too I I I do have some healthy respect for pitching development in Atlanta I also uh sat down with Spencer schwellenbach and he ran me through his Arsenal and I'll I'll post that video U soon oh man um you know they're doing some kind of interesting things in Atlanta for one um talking to to to Grant Holmes and schwach and uh and and seeing that Sal's been you know V's been good and the health has been good I think one thing that they're doing in Atlanta is shorter Bullpen sessions in between starts wasn't that a thing with h the Red Sox too it was it I think so there's someone else maybe was here maybe it was with Renee Decker talking about this but this is the second time I've heard this they the the way that it was uh promoted to me by Holmes and schwellenbach in particular was I need to practice these pitches at 100% yeah like I I yeah yeah yeah yeah this is something we heard from Joe Ryan about his splitter he was like I was practicing my splitter in bullpens and it looked one way and then I got in the game and was throwing 100% and it looked a whole another way and it just wasn't working so what they've done is they and I I crap you not they boil it down to 15 or 16 pitches doesn't surprise me their bullpens in between starts that's a really low number I've I've heard 30 or 40 in the past at least half of and I think you know even some others do more than that and so you know the idea used to be that you need to kind of keep that 80 or that 100 pitches in you and so you need to do like sort of half that you know to like you know kind of keep it going but they're like no no no I'm just practicing shapes and certain things that I want to do Schwan Bach was like you know know glove side fastball I need to F I need to practice glove side fastball um and uh oh he in particular what's interesting is that um he's actually trying to kill the horizontal on his for seam because he has a lower release and he's trying to have that low flat you know right the fast and if he he has this kind of release where if he lets it Go normally it'll be like a two seamer and that would hitters hitters see the slot they say this is going to be a two seamer it's going to go like this so he's trying to kill it it's and so he's throwing a fast ball that has a little bit of cut but he also oh yeah no he certainly absolutely is at that which is kind of why upstairs I'm a little weirded out by it from him but he but he but he also throws a cutter yeah right that one's a more that is a true like it's a dip cut for the for Seer but it's a true horizontal ride cut on the uh on the cutter and then he throws a slider yeah the SL it's a proper Bridge pitch that cutter yeah but he but he he he agreed with me that for Spencer and I'm glad that we loved him so much to begin with and he's pitching so well I mean he's had some he had two starts in a row was like 22 strikeouts and zero walks and two strikes two starts so like he's he's on it at least we were right about one thing on this podcast but um he he says he's got the slider he says the foundation is the four SE slider so his bullpens are uh foring uh cutter curve what's interesting is he also has a splitter he just shows up with sometimes yeah he said that that one is just sometimes it's there and sometimes not and he do do you know twiitter a volatile guys oh my gosh crazy nobody but you can you can get with somebody who has it as like their fourth option right well that's no that's what I'm saying I know it's just like it's uh it's a common thing and actually um with Joe Ryan I wanted to really hit on that because it makes all the sense in the world that if you're throwing a splitter of all pitches at different velocities or different strengths that is very much of a you can over grip a splitter or not right and the intensity on release if you're squeezing it too much that changes everything with it and that's what he that's what he was saying that like even in my shorter higher intensity bullpens I'm still only at like 80% and so yeah right practicing the splitter still doesn't make a lot of sense and there's no way I'm going to get to game day stress levels in my Bullpen because that's I'm just I'm not it's not that environment it's like there's nobody yelling you know it's in a bullpen oh man so um anyway it's wild you know that that was not so he also ran me through that he has improv the curveball if you notice the last two starts the curveball has been better he's been using it more he switches grip he's spiking the thing and that's why his his Bullpen sessions are fastball cutter curve because those are the pitches he's working on the fastball and the cutter he has to keep SE you know fastball he's cutting a little bit but you know anyway that was not the wildest thing I heard that day what was that the wildest thing I heard that day was when I went and talked to Grant Holmes oh yeah the real estate broker because he grants Holmes so ready to have children um so uh this is the wildest thing I've ever heard so I you know he sees me run through this whole thing with Swan back and you know because they're Locker mates and I and I and so I'm like hey if you got time for me too like I want to talk to you too that's the best oh my gosh and he was like yeah yeah and I was like listen I was looking at your your my league and it was and he's like long I was like yeah I mean yeah so one thing that I really noticed is though your strikeout rate just just like went through the roof when you got to Atlanta like what what did you do differently that you weren't doing in Oakland for six plus years almost like seven years with Oakland right this is the wildest thing I've ever heard we tried a slider as in like he didn't have one before what what when does that happen what I mean you know what okay I have a very simple explanation for this you know very simple it's Oakland who does that's the answer it's Oakland they just let them do whatever yes and they don't have like okay cool let's do uh you know like every company does with their products or their staff go okay cool let's do some performance review what are the things that we should be doing here flip this over uhhuh uhuh oh wow lots of previous performance reviews because you've been in the minor so long oh my gosh that's insane though how is that just like the first you're a right-hander do can you throw a slider that is not the conversation I I I couldn't I was like I I said some exploit of Oakland and he goes yep wow so so how's he okay why what kind of slider did they teach him how's he feel with it did you get any of that no it's a regular boring ass slider it's two fingers on the on the thing yeah it's on the Horseshoe bottom of it yeah the top nothing weird I even take a picture of it I was like what did he did he just th just throws over the top like a fast ball and just like there you go it's done I mean it's a little bit to the side like it's it's a it's just a slider slider I think so what I don't to so let's you always want to give Grace because there's real people in these jobs trying their hardest you know I think the idea was to some extent that he had a he had a good curve and maybe he didn't want to blend the slider and the curve so they taught him a cutter and he still throws the cutter some yeah um but I I just it still boggles the mind that they wouldn't have tried a slider and the reason we're laughing if if you're not catching on is this is a slider League like 90% of the league throws a slider yeah you know it's it seems to be almost step one for like do you want to be a big leader you gotta have a slider you know yeah the the the only pitcher I can really think of that has a lot of success that doesn't throw a slider is Aaron Nola that's the only and that's a cutter you know like maybe there's even a sleeper in there at times too it's just like I can't no I I I do I do want to jump into that se in the real this is a finish off Grant's story where please so he's he's got this good curveball and he's so they're teaching him a cutter and then he comes to Atlanta and one of the things they do is um make him a reliever and uh I think this was really intentional so they make him a reliever and the first Ser he's with Atlanta he's a reliever and all all he throws are fast balls and Sliders so he's not even throwing his bread and butter curveball that he thought would get him to the big league he's not even throwing that oh my go and what he does is he gets a v Boost from relieving okay and then they move him back to starting and he holds onto some of that V boost that's curious I think it's because it's sort of a mindset where like when you're relieving you're like I'm a throws hard as I can until they them away from me right and I think what they did was sort of jog that mindset so that when he's starting he still has that I'm just going to throw as hard as I can until they take the ball from me right but I mean obviously the the negative that the reason that doesn't always happen is because a you burn out quicker and B we don't want Max effort for so many pitches right I know but but I think also when you're dealing with somebody who is like 28 and like hasn't made it to the big leagues yet great Point yeah you're kind of like got nothing to lose let's just see how long I can hold this yeah yeah what if you what if you're the starter for 50 Innings at the beginning of season and you're relever for 50 Innings at the end of the season whatever you know like we we'll take whatever we get totally totally you're a better pitcher now that you've spent a whole season throwing this slider right you know and averaging 94 plus so now you know as a starter he's closer to 94 is you know and he's got a real slider and now he brings back the curveball that he's always had and uh and underlying it as he agreed was was a good sense of command like that was one yeah he he's a this is actually um this is something that I think we've highlighted or talked about a lot with guys is there's a lot of these rookies that come up and we get really excited but like are they actually someone that is going to be consistent enough to really stick around for a long time right kind of still out on or Dury still out for me on like say Spencer arti um because he has those flashes of it's great but I don't know if you can really throw enough strikes with the secondary still and the four seamer and actually get four SE where it needs to be MH the um with Hayden bird song I'm the jury is back and I'm like I cannot trust this guy he's G have moments but I don't feel this way and yeah you had something on him too other most bizarre thing that I saw this week it's Hayden bird songs change up grip oh right does he have a I guess he did he showed a couple of them oh it's a spiked change up he calls it the kickstand oh my gosh wait okay okay okay so he's he's doing this uh yeah it's like a circle change so he's got the circle over here a little bit further along the along yeah a little like like like here I I guess yeah yeah yeah yeah oh my gosh so his point his point was that he's such an aggressive uh uh two-finger uh breaking ball guy that's the that's the that's the middle finger spiking yeah yeah oh my oh I get it I see it now so the idea is he's such an aggressive two finger guy that he needs to kickstand that finger to get it off the ball too oh my gosh [Laughter] what can you imagine he throws it like 83 miles an hour can you th you imagine throwing that 83 miles an hour first first of all uh I personally could never get behind any of the um any of the spiked stuff it never worked for me it's also kind of why I never really like knuckle ball essentially doing anything that's this coming out is just wrong to me it just doesn't it needs to it needs to just Glide I don't want me thinking about those things maybe just don't touch it yeah here's yeah here's the thing though I think a lot of times with those uh with those with those U with the knuckling and stuff the idea is almost the same as this yeah right right right right they're not he's not I asked him is are because Matt Leos used to have a change up grip called the Critter where he flicked it the Critter yeah and he flicked it it also had some sort of uh you know man I would think you're not allowed to say on TV chitter I would say I would say chitter I know you're gonna probably replace the first letter but Hayden burong was saying that like with that with that kick standed thing he's just trying to get the I can't even hold it I know man that is a thing like you're really you're like pulling this finger off and then also kick standing this one like it's like some also the index finger you kickstand guy too no the the figure the the index finger is off in the circle oh yeah it's a c it's a circle change guys if you're listening right now what showing this is why you got to look at the YouTube video these days now because we're live it's a circle change the two seam grip just think of it like that two seam grip you have it over and then you bring up your middle finger I don't even have the flexibility in the fingers to do it really uh I have as you can see guys I can get my fingers around the ball pretty easily oh I've got mits all right this is what do you know was a pitcher shocking uh more at 11 um but but but his idea was like and a lot of the idea uh like with AJ Bernett knuckle curve and a lot of that's the one I taught my son is is just to get that finger out of the way yeah it's not necessarily you're doing anything with that spiked finger and some people think you have to like dig that Spike finger in no it's a little bit more about sort of resting it you know that's why people call knuckle curve it's not that you're you're doing anything with the knuckle you're just sort of resting it it's almost the same thing as Adam Wayne writes you know pointing the finger in the sky well that's the that's the first curve ball that everyone learns if you're unfamiliar you have your index finger and your middle finger in between and then actually I'm so sorry the the middle finger is the one going on the seam the index finger before and then as you release it's called popping the gun where you push your forward finger forward you you you pop the gun I know that was a sort of a basic approach but I think forward for both the ideas get the index finger out of the way exactly which is so stupid because the index finger is the most important finger I don't care I I couldn't do anything without the index finger it was like that's the one that like I get the most nerves and sensory information from I can't not use this thing well either way those those are the two most bizarre things that I heard this week and it it it did amazing set me thinking about this sort of the process of adding a new pitch I mean right so so let's do that let's let's talk about a little bit of guys that are missing a SL who can maybe add one we have some from the comments which is awesome we're going to talk about all of that after this break so we have actually from the chat here en know um as we transition to this I love this topic of like huh who are those guys that actually could unlock what we think is our pretty much the best pitch in baseball is a slider like I I think it's bar nun it is that is more important for right-handers I think you'd agree with that than lefties um which does bring up a little bit of the the tweet I put out yesterday which I think is obvious it's just I feel like I needed to say it out loud more is that if you're a lefty a change up to me Elite change up is more important than an elite slider because you're dealing with right-handers more yeah right and it just makes sense and you look at all the elite lefties like a lot of them TK scoel and Cole Reagan uh you had Max Freed's amazing two years with a change up you have Blake Snell's change up waking up I mean it's a big reason for a lot of these guys having success um and even Tyler Anderson this year look at that look at that I'm looking at the list of pitches with outsliders and there's a fair amount of lefties near the top um and you've got Jose King Tana known for his curve and change you know uh you've got James Paxton who used to have a the cutter slider thing that was the hard cutter slider thing is now gone which is part of why I'm not I'm not surprised that Boston even Tred traded for him um sinkers actually threw him with sinkers by the way and it worked kind Ty block and Ryan yarboro who were very close to the same person yeah yo is this cutter guy so both have change ups and soft tosing and you know barely and baseball Jaylen beaks uh change up uh Trevor that's right-hander Trevor Richards is a right-hander uh but uh you know if if you take the and the Nicko uh is kind of interesting not having a slider but well right is that slider really a curveball it's like it's like the Rich Hill uh and chisale thing you have such a low arm angle where you essentially throw a curveball grip from there you know and it's just the arm angle that makes it like a slider right yeah I guess you know on the righty side uh this is where you know this is where my eyebrow raises and you're right Aaron Nola's on there and he's added the cutter recently but the curve is just a really strong pitch for him he ainola Charlie Morton Adam Wayne wri that seems to be like an archetype yeah never really had a good slider even their Cutters were I mean wer had an okay cutter but it was more like his fast ball than a than a slider you know there's one guy who had it was just just like pure curveball for a while that we really liked to like one of the hardest ones and that was L McCullers yeah and I remember eventually here's the thing so Alex and I early in July January 2023 we did uh talking pitching with them I still think I have the video of it we didn't put it out but I we were like hey tell us about the slider like how are you throwing this thing and what he said essentially is a sweeper but guys I I can't believe what I saw and it's like one of those times you you get a player to tell you something and you're just like nodding like oh yeah cool cool cool and it's just like like you're dying inside as he says it right like look at a bird Sox's change up grip like what yeah well that I mean that's like okay if that works for you awesome yeah what he said was I do this I have this and then I released it like I'm throwing a pizza and I go I'm sorry what you're like so like you're turning your wrist completely oh my God CM up going across goes yeah yeah that's it and I'm like I'm I'm just holding it all back because I'm like well that elbow's done when when I mean look I'm not the guy that's like oh injury done okay every single guy is gonna get hurt all that kind of stuff fine there are some pretty absolute truths I think one is if you throw a legitimate screw ball there's no way doing this on on release is going to be fine in the long term and to me by the way scre ball to me like this you literally have to reverse it to do like the walk the Egyptian thing to be a said that his his surgeon said it was the worst shoulder he'd seen yeah and then uh and then the other thing is that that's the ultra pronating side and then the ultra super nating side is like when old guys when you're like 12 or 13 you see you throw a breaking ball you can't throw out your arm that's what they mean that you're like literally twisting your wrisk too much yeah on release and that's just what he's doing in front of me he's like doing this I'm like why I there's probably a biomechanical reason that is not a good idea because you know basically in your forearm a lot of this like the the when you talk about flexor strains and why that leads to Tommy John is that the flexor mass and a lot of this stuff in your forearm is is there to protect your elbow it's like taking it's taking uh stress away from the elbow ligament because right the way that I understand it from the piece that I did about the you know how hard can we absolutely throw you know we we're at that point right now and they were talking about you know oh the stress that we're putting on the UCL tears and cadavers right and he's like well the reason why it doesn't tear every single time they throw this hard is because in a cadaver you're just like you're just holding the cadaver's thing yeah putting a weight on being like oops torn you know whereas in your body you know you're you're even bones will take some of the stress your bones your other muscles your other ligaments didn't we see that didn't we see like an arm fracture once from someone and that was just throwing yeah the the the raay guy who like threw a ball in his in his arm fractured gosh oh God I don't want to think about that again I'm so sorry but here's actually thing everyone can do at home is put your arm out straight just put your arm out straight and put your other hand over your elbow oh sorry yeah inside where the you know inside here just put it out straight and then now make it so that your palm is up and just go back and forth and then now just twist without turning your forearm you will see you will feel your ligament like yeah like moving around around yeah it's just like you're doing that stress every time I see how tight it is all of a sudden oh my gosh don't do this do not oh gosh so um so yeah that's ah sorry that was a lance that does speak to some of this some of the injuries across baseball and sort of one of the fundamental problems is that the sliders really good and how do you achieve a good slider without doing all that you know you want to have a good slider that you're not super stressing yourself out because you're GNA throw it 30% of the time in this league you know and um the guys who haven't done it who have been successful I think the easiest rule of thumb is do they have an elite curveball and uh you know that I think so I think that the the the people that don't have an elite curveball and don't have a slider and are right-handed that are young is a short list and Taj Bradley is on top of it yeah this is actually the first one brought here this Kyle Bland saying no slider for Taj Bradley now the thing is that he does have a cutter though and he uses a little bit like a slider right he's very much like a I mean my interpretation is my four seamer I'm going to throw it like I'm going to throw the cutter like a for seamer and try to play off of it what I've noticed is that this year with TOS Bradley going from for seamer cutter curve I has essentially just gone okay I'm gonna throw the splitter now as my number two instead and I normally would be like I don't know but he's be he's been able to get over 60% strikes on the splitter more times than not and he's pulled back on the cutter and I feel like the cutter doesn't do enough to be different or at least it's obvious enough when he throws it because this cutter it's not the kodai senga like he could be just a mimic of kodai senga uh Taj Bradley right I mean with the worst command of spiter fine but the for seamer as far as chaos goes and then pairing with that cutter inside the zone that could work but yeah something has to be tweaked here and I think you're right and you're on to something that like I don't think this cutter is the answer maybe if he does go to a more traditional slider approach it would be better yeah I like I just love Taj Bradley's fastball shape so much and like it's so good I just want him to be able to to to to add to that and I think it I think it'll happen and it's it's definitely the type of player that I want to to sort of bet on um but you know we've we've talked a lot about another guy on this list he has a Lefty but Kyle Harrison like if he had a a legit slider I think he' just he'd still be better than what he is now yeah yeah I mean that through his start last night and it is a little bit like sitting through a start because it's just fast ball after fast ball with poor command and um hitters just eventually somebody you know puts the right swing on the on the fast ball at the right time right it was interesting to see him be a little bit better with change upups down yesterday yeah he did some more of those right and um yeah like the world that I see with Kyle Harrison is like slowly and steadily he's getting a little bit more precise with that Force seer in the zone the curve he just can't extend down on it I don't know what it is every single curve is just up in arms side he cannot hold on to that thing long enough I've heard that he is not a good pronator which I think actually can affect your curveball oh yeah well I mean it's a pronating pitch right all right change up yeah he's not a good pronator so is that right um wait did I get that no pronating is you're right pronating change change up but but I think of curveball as as closer to to yeah pronating on the side of it curve you have to stay true you know and change as relase you do want to change stay true so I think of it more as a pron but it probably is more of a super I'm just being done just generally he's not good at something because he he's breaking ball because breaking Ball's not good either right CH up's not good either so if his change up's not good and he say he's not a good proon then that might make sense but if he was a cator then he would have a slider so right you know there's something missing with Kyle Harrison and I'm just not sure it's gonna be there but Taj Bradley at least the story is that he hasn't been pitching as long and you know he's kind of coming into his own Spencer schwellenbach as an example uh did not pitch in college until junior year oh wow so uh there's a little bit of that with him too how about Dean Kramer like oh man give Dean Kramer a great slider instead of the okay cutter he throws oh but the cutter is how he gets through games I know it's it's so is are we just gonna call that his slider I guess I mean well it's no it isn't a slider I mean what's important to understand I think what you're really trying to you know elucidate is that sliders are how you Excel right you can't you really can't yeah a right-hander it is so hard to find a elite pitcher who just doesn't have a slider that's really Dependable right it does good for action and for called strikes because you can do both things with it whereas a cutter is a little bit closer to uh called strikes and weak contact it's not as good for whiffs if you just look at you know sort of pitch type splits you'll see that the cutter doesn't get as many whiffs it's why we're okay with the guys like uh like Jared Jones and Spencer Strider with for seamer slider because it's just like whatever hunter green like sliders are amazing for seamers are amazing to me those are the two best pitches to be a lead at closest you know and if it's a power slider they're they're the two closest pitches to being platoon neutral you know oh interesting yeah right right great Point uh so yeah Dean Kramer man Kramer is just I watch him and it's like one night he's like cool here's Cutter's here his for seer's here here's a splitter working here's kitchen sink except for I guess a slider uh and that works sometimes and that's had a dominant pitch that you could throw for a yeah wish yeah exactly was forcing your cutter you know you know who's also likely on that list I mean I guess this um so it's interesting we are obviously distinguishing between a sweeper and a slider um and I when I he slider I guess these days it's more gyro right I I just I've just U used the Fang grass board which actually doesn't U split them yet I think it will in the future right so the reason I bring that up is like I hear oh you need a dominant pitch to kind of take over and that's yeah you could have a sweeper and still need a slider I guess right and I think cutter Crawford kind of is like that oh around a good slider right for seamer cutter sweeper sometimes the splitter shows up whatever sometimes the curveball whatever but it's those three and watching him a thing that I've kind of said the entire year but it felt like he's a he's a common hey look if I have all three I'm amazing I'm great if everything's working with each other that's great there any cracks in any of it I don't feel that two of those are good enough as you know you need that third piece and he doesn't have like that pitch he turns to he doesn't have like cool I'm in a jam right now first and second you know two outs in the six I need to get this guy out what am I throwing I'm GNA throw like three Sliders in a row like we've seen that from guys before like who cares I got this he doesn't have that uh the cutter is there for called strikes or whatever the for Seer sometimes gets that whiff upstairs but if you don't get it past that guy okay then maybe they chase a sweeper maybe it's good enough in that one moment I don't know but you you need that slider it's just like no man I'm burning you with this right now and then the sweeper doesn't help you against lefties as much so then you're you become fastball cutter you become more predictable maybe the curve is like really really a third pitch for him I mean there's something something going on and another thing and you know I'll I'll I'll write this piece eventually but um in this league uh hitters are sitting slider more often and uh and so I think with cutter that's sitting cutter you know so if you're sitting cutter you know against him and you're a lefty and you're not going to see the sweeper you can sit cutter maybe adjust curve fight off foram and have success against them you know yeah definitely uh is there someone else you want to bring up that might benefit how about Matthews because oh man I wanted to I mean I I had to talk about him I we got talk about to um and we're going to talk about both of those guys after this break had had to cut you off you gotta gotta do it after the break you know after the break all right here we go so as I rudely interrupted you know there we have to talk about zebie Matthews I wanted to do this today if you're watching on YouTube you see already I put zebie Matthews as the title was not going to let this happen without talking about zebie tell me what you saw here you know last night in his MLB debut for the twins well I I think what I saw was a sweeper that has been separated out from a cutter or power slider he had a really nice looking 8990 M hour hard slider yeah um and so I don't I think that's why how he sort of fits into this conversation is is he cutter Crawford with a four seam cutter sweeper curve you know or is that a legit power slider he got some really nice whiffs off of it um against lefties and yeah um separating that power slider cutter thing from the sweeper apparently was a big step forward him in his in his uh development process so you're calling it a sweeper though at the 86 mile per hour slider yeah so um did it I don't know I mean so we have um you can check it out I I put it on Twitter I asked it from Kyle and he actually this is how Kyle Bland Works everyone I I said oh hey I know we have this minor league app where we can look up individual pitchers uh from Triple A and their pitch types but I don't have one for like the whole like all five of them on like the pitch plot of movement can you just send me zebie Matthews it goes hey hold on one second so what you did he just added it for literally everyone so now you have it in minor leagues now you can look up AAA whole movement charts uh for all them and looking at it the slight I mean traditionally when I see sweeper I'm thinking like a negative 10 to 15 or so um on the x- axis and like pretty even on the y a zero or so above or below 10 is 10 yeah it was around the minor league one was around zero or so or like maybe negative five at most okay um where the cutter was above that in maybe like plus one plus two then the four so he's throwing a cutter and a power and a power gyro yeah 87 or so that cutter I I love this cutter oh my gosh I love this cutter um him against Bobby wit in the first inning even um the second at bat of the game yeah I tweet something from the third or fourth at bat where he just got a he he threw he threw the cutter 90 miles an hour in on the hands of a lefty and they were just they they they blew him up and the thing is he did the same thing to MJ Melendez and I'm like as he's throwing it the glove is right there on the Inside Edge to a lefty EX cutes it perfectly it's 9091 this cutter I see Melendez hit it I'm like oh what a great pitch this is a can of corn out destroys it right center field and I'm like what I literally said wow what a great pitch I still have hope for Melendez as a hitter I know this a pitching podcast I still have hope for him as a hitter just because he has the Raw Talent it's you see it moments like that but it's he has minus minus approach like he probably shouldn't have even swung at that pitch you know it was actually like a borderline strike right but maybe you don't want to still swing at it because generally you're not normally get sought off by it right right and thing is Adam Frasier swung at a similar one to too later on that came a little bit further in off the off the plate that might have been the one I I think that was the one that I yeah that's the one go so good love it and and I knew that you would love zebie Matthews because um I was looking at his location values and they are above average uh for four five pitch types so you have a foundational you have your foundational above average to to to good I don't know if there's an elite pitch in there yet we'll still have to see yeah I agree with you there above average for seam uh slider cutter and then he commands uh the curve and the Sinker well uh so it it all works together in in concert I think so yeah um and I the change up is something that okay it wasn't quite there yet there were times you got on the side of it um too much fine just gotta get Pablo to teach it to him obviously um but uh but no with what we normally see in MLB debuts are guys who are not polished yet they are more stuff focused or if they are command guys they usually have like one of them working and they're really wrestling a lot there's a lot of adrenaline and what we what I saw today look like a veteran almost of just like oh yeah no I've been here before I know what I'm doing I'm putting this over here I'm doing this over here and even when he would make mistakes he certainly did that the slider was bounced multiple times by zebie Matthews he then adjusted it and he came back and like I remember one at bad actually it was O he threw a slider he spiked it one oh spiked it again so he said fine and he dotted 95 on the outside edge like just down in a way of perfect 20 to two1 it's like all right fine let me recalibrate Okay and like you don't see that what you see in the next pitch is just a random fast ball Somewhere In the Zone not like all right fine here's a good fast got it okay next you know that kind of guy throwing what we saw as above average metrics on Pitch shape across the board even from release like 1.1 height adjusted vaa around 16 inches of verts um slightly above average extension like 67 68 um at 9596 which might come down but that's kind of what the report was too um was for zebi and that was his wi pitch in the miners that only earned one whiff last night so that's the thing I'm kind of curious about to see if that four seamer can turn more into a elevated WID pitch and especially if you have that cutter that he's nailing down glove side that itself is this amazing tandem of just I can just put this here or there and you don't even know inside to Lefty like which one it is to a right-hander you can mess around with is it coming down is it not um there's a lot of things here and I also think we haven't seen the curve and change yet like that will show up because it's gonna do so much yeah yeah I have uh you know in my minor league sample that I'm looking at he threw uh the curve um about half as much as a slider um so he threw it a fair amount and he threw the change up about that much too yeah Stuff Plus didn't like the change up but that's a pretty small sample to be to be deciding uh the change up is good or bad what did it think about the slider the 86 that was 120 Stuff Plus yeah we had a 56 PV 56 be in the minor only 97 Stuff Plus so that that's basically right on average so which might not produce a bunch of that might not produce a bunch of yeah that might have been a minor leager thing than uh than a major league thing I will say the foundation of the for seman cutter and the command of that setting up what we like as a slider that should be more I don't know overwhelming uh moving forward yeah I like this kid I'm I'm a big fan of Daniel Zebulon and Matthews yeah which is actually his name by the way if you didn't know that returning to our earlier conversation he has a slider yeah he has a slider and he has command uh like his location Plus numbers are through the roof actually yeah so not surprised of reacting to when you're talking about you know him being able to put the FAS ball he wants to like it's I haven't seen location numbers this good very often I mean 12s like we don't have that usually oh wow and this is a debut again like what his ey his total PV on all his pitches 508 on the fast which is above average 591 on the slider which uh is 99th percentile if he qualified um cutter is a 516 which is actually only 41 plv um kind of interesting there uh but 591 is just ridiculous um all right so we like zie Matthews um anything you want to add on zabby on zabby add on zebie nope no uh I don't think he's he doesn't fit my list of uh somebody I need to give a a slide or two I like that you know it's one of the things that you know I liked about him um I was I was wondering if it was as a sweeper or not but uh I feel better now that it's not I mean it's this is a pretty a platoon safe Arsenal you think about it his slider is not the one that you know you don't throw to lefties he's got a power cutter that looked really good against lefties um he may not even need the change he may never really throw it a lot yeah that's that's a very good point um the uh the other guy I really wanted to bring up is Matthew Boyd returning boys boys boy boys okay um the history of Matthew Boyd with us uh is there were times in the past that he flirted with throwing 94 and change he said Tommy John he's gone through a lot of things and now he's back and he came uh into this as a Guardians picture and I got to say it looked really weird seeing him in a Guardians uniform it's such a stark difference from the Detroit Tigers Jersey and it just doesn't feel right but whatever fine I'll get through this I what I saw was actually better locations than I expected especially for your first game back from Tommy John forers are upstairs really well change ups and Sliders were at the very bottom of the Zone not really underneath it much and a little bit wild um but he was never really like having I I don't remember a scenario where Matthew Boyd had both a slider and a change up working at the same time there was a moment he had his change up working but then the slider was actually disappearing I think I'm always talking to him about his change up yeah and the change looked good yesterday good right and it felt like watching it no this thing was actually doing what supposed to the velocity at 92 and change is a little disappointing I was hoping at least adrenaline would show us higher velocity and maybe it might be down in the future because the adrenaline goes away and that was the adrenal inversion but I am curious about your take on Boyd and how he fits in with a lot of these injured pitchers coming back with the current landscape also with the uh with starting pitchers right now yeah I don't know uh this was uh one of the more sort of horizontal uh less vertical change UPS he he's thrown I guess so maybe more of a uh maybe a little bit more of a two seam movement um and uh I don't see necessarily though a big difference in it um he did uh he has been throwing a little bit harder over time but it's um it's just an awkward change up because it is neither a straight change up it's 12 M hour gap um and it's not a power change up in terms of the movement profile it uh it moves less than his Sinker horizontally um and only has two more inches of drop over his Sinker but it does bring up the fact that you know he does use uh for seam and sinker and one of the hardest things um you know to do is to figure out you know how to define a pitch off of which fast ball right I guess if you define the uh the change up off of the four scene you know uh he has h two inches more horizontal movement and five inches more drop than his forcing so uh what would you be I guess as a uh right you wouldn't see too many sinkers so you'd be defining that change up off the four scene yeah probably right I mean case it comes off as like slightly below average you know just sort of number scouting yeah good stuff I I would think that I've seen this trend a little bit I know we we know it watching it because it's more gorgeous because the camera angles of like the front hip Sinker um as a right-hander to a left-hander but I've been seeing actually a decent amount for these Sinker guys to actually throw the inside um to right-handers uh a popular one I think to me is Eduardo Rodriguez who actually had a decent strikeout rate um called strikes with that pitch inside kind of a front door then uh oh I'm so sorry yeah not back door yeah absolutely right oh man oh man I correct so many people on that one you know oh my gosh did you stay back door I don't even know if you back I said I think I said front hip maybe not yeah you said front hip and inside I was just saying I'm just saying for my edification you're you to to to visualize it right well throwing a front hip to a righty it is something that I don't see as often because the camera angles aren't good for it that's yeah we don't know that it is right it looks beautiful right does it to a lefty it's the only times you see it are in Houston um because they are a lefty favored camera angle and it's really good for framber Valdez and it's like you see the movement on Fran braal as a sinker yeah really nice for him yeah I think the default camera angle is like over the pitcher's right shoulder yeah and uh what needs to happen we need to have two cameras one for lefties one for righties oh give us access to the uh behind the home plate of you oh my gosh the ire cam yes I mean you know let's be honest here in like five 10 years uh we're gonna be able to just put on our headsets and be at the stadium and just walk around it and sit wherever the heck we want to watch this game I mean they have cameras they have they have cameras everywhere like yeah what we already are seeing is that AI is helping us um switch from camera to camera and have the right zooms um there are these sort of AI coaches for the cameras that can kind of almost help produce um the show where it can be like oh I know where that hit is going you know like that camera that camera you know right right right follow the track of the ball um off the bat maybe even you could add in some sort of Predictive Analytics into the AI where you're like oh I think this is going to be a massive Homer you know switch to behind home plate Homer from behind home plate or whatever you oh man oh my gosh I kind of think they did that once already because the Reese Hines you know for some reason they flipped to behind home plate for one of his just massive homers really yeah and it was just like was it like a 20 count and you just were like you kind of like well let's let's flip real quick could be a homer we should tell the picture um we should tell the TRU them know like uh the AI is gonna change the camera on you buddy yeah you shouldn't throw this [ __ ] oh god um I wonder actually come to think of it if we're doing this whole pitchcombe but I'm sure many show all of us with they pit with the what he s you could do that you have I mean you have something problematic for cheating purposes not it's not even what I was getting at though okay it was you have a AI in between that it says like um are you sure about that Matthew a little coach in this in the machine right I mean like you could program that oh my God it'd be so easy well even just all right give me quickly I need this information tell me me a pitch comom great thank you so much no don't want to do it it' be easy to program it but what you're talking about would require at this point would require hacking into uh the pitchcombe like aware of it and tell me it uh I don't want someone else's voice in I don't want a computer elsewhere I want the thing there living with me as I input it being like I know the situation no oh just like a little like a little Fitbit that sits next to the next to your thing and you're about to put slider in it's like um Martin Maldonado please do not put slider in yeah right right just don't this I mean even a simple as like these change up yeah right like you know we have the things we flip over of like that have the notes of okay throw here throw there throw there like just do that just build into the thing be like yeah no it's not guy oh I just saw how he looked on that last one you it gets a whole limb generation leaned in on that one we don't want that Chris basset hate this so much Chris Bat said like you know he's is like calling his own pitch and the AI is like no Chris don't call that he's like shut up I want to throw no Chris that would be a bad pitch no and I could just seem to take the pitch come off and yeah please confirm with this capture ah the thing is though you know we're joking about this yeah somebody's baseball's gonna be around for a long time these questions are gonna this could at least Be a Player Development tool that you know you kind of give your your minor league pitchers to kind of Coach them on the thought process of of calling games absolutely like just let it happen in Atlantic league but then they get up to the majors like wait where's Fred Fred I need Fred Fred tell me is a slider a good idea oh my gosh that's really true and then that's true maybe you don't want them depend maybe that's what Triple A is maybe triaa doesn't have it and then like you're only allowed to have it in single a or double A that's when the training wheels come off yeah and they're like and you throw to ABS also known as Clark Clark's not nice R oh man now we're making oh God it's called one k then um oh my gosh this was this was a fun tangent here I I wanted to give you an opportunity I just brought two pictures to the table um and I'm curious if you had a certain guy that like you saw this past week something's weiring you out or you just curious about you want to bring up today no I brought I think I brought up most of my guys um I don't know I gota give you this opportunity every time because this is the core of what we do two pitchers no subtitle and uh it's well I guess you know my two pictures were were bird song and uh hommes but and Schwan back I kind of I I snuck in there what you from yeah go ahead the other thing that's interesting about bird song was um so the other day I I took my son uh throwing and he was super mad because he had forgotten his glove and he really wanted us to drive back but I didn't want to drive back to get the glove so I made him pitch with my glove and my glove is heavier and so he his his command was off but it was not necessarily off the way you'd think one of the things that we think mechanically is if your front is too heavy then you're going to open up and be behind you know sure yep you know on the throwing arm and then you're GNA throw to the arm side you're G to be wild to the arm side he uh was wild to the glove side so you know and he's stomping around the mound you know just to being a 12-y old and I was like hey let this be a learning lesson let's try some different cues to like see how you can effect this what happens when you are going glove side what do you need to do so I was like let's do this queue how about you pull in your front side hard you know because that's what I thought is that he would be you know that the glove would be heavy and he would be like falling down on the front so I was like pull in your glove like think about pulling in your glove when you throw and that didn't work and so I was like all right stick your glove in my eye you know before you pull it in like think about punching me in the eye with your with your your glove before you throw right and that that sort of fixed it and uh and that was the lesson of the day for us was you know first of all Mound composure like come on like you gota they're gonna be bashing your head in some days yeah you know and you just gotta you got to figure out how to not cry on the mound literally you know kids you know and then uh the second part was like you know run through cues and so I was talking a bird song and it was those things where I I was like I don't want to say it but we both know it like you have bad fastball command so and I didn't know how to get there and then he just said it he's like I know I know I spray the fast ball why okay uh and he said the reason why he has better slider command is that you emphasize being out in front on sliders and breaking balls and so he says he gets out in front and he gets to the right release place and he that's why he can replicate in sliders and and curveballs well and said he doesn't get to that place with fast balls he's he opens up and he and he sprays it you know and and so um he said he's done two things well one thing is the same thing as my son which is cycle through Q's um and I think the queue that he said has been working a little bit for him is is is being tight in the front and then the other way that you can help a person be tight in the front is put a weighted ball in their glove uh as they're pitching and sort of emphasize that feeling of sort of pulling through and like make that front arm stronger even like maybe need to be kind of stronger and rip through so that you get the front arm out there in time and you don't you're not behind and you're spraying the ball so he's aware of it um and some of this coaching is happening at the major leag level uh some of it happened on minor league level um it's at 97 it it is one of those things where it doesn't have great shape though so he could what could happen is the command of it could get better as he gets older and he just sort of knows himself better right but then the V might be coming down the same time so he just may never have yeah sure you may better command as the shape gets slightly worse or the vlo gets wor well there's also like there's also like spin efficiency right and arm path changes um spin efficiency a lot so just how top of it you are or not I do see a world where his arm path does change a little for the fast ball to make sure it's not as wild if you're opening up so much it does drag your arm a little differently yeah if you're saying straighter then you are actually going to get more on top of it um so you think that could you know if he does those things it could his shape a little bit it's sometimes that this has happened I've seen it like both kind of tweak together well we saw McKenzie Gore changed something about you know where he stood on the mound and that changes hips and that changed movement on a lot different pitches without having to do pitch design he wasn't doing the pitch design he was cleaning up the mechanics yeah the um the other aspect actually I thought the the story you were telling about your son was going to go and it might actually be the answer is um there are two ways to do it you you were talking a lot about the end of it with a glove but um let's see I've got the official PCT list Edition Rawlings Pro preferred PCT list Nick glove um it's about taking it out of the of the glove too so if you have a different glove uh sometimes it feels different and takes longer or shorter so if you have a you're breaking of the hands out and where you are at certain points when you so you're talking about cues you're talking about like here you know extending out coming closer sure but also how fast is this arm getting to where it needs to like I could we could have tried as a different cu take the ball out of the glove fast ball first and do do everything like this already and do the whole thing like that you know and see if that would change it which is awkward and weird and generally doesn't but something to be thinking about is like I changed where my my hands were uh my coach made me do it so that to to help against guys on the stretch bring you down to my waist because then I have a shorter arm Circle which I hated I absolutely hated it you know um but I there are a lot of things you can do with that too yeah and tying it back to the original thing was there a pitch you just couldn't throw oh yeah I couldn't I couldn't do I mean again going back to like index finger stuff I was just really bad at change UPS Circle changes because it's ring finger I can't I don't want to throw with this I have to throw everything with my index finger sliders I was starting I I only really started to learn what a slider was my junior year and I already had I had my curveball which was worse than what it was in in high school but I mean it is interesting we're like if you want to be in the pros you got to have a slider and then you tell everybody Under 12 you can't throw a slider I know and then you have this weird thing we like is the idea for all these kids that at 14 they learn the pitch that'll make them a major leager yeah right um it's like you need the foundations without it I will say that if you go at it from I need to throw a baseball not from a fastball but from a slider I do think that's not as healthy because I think I think the best sliders are the ones that are built on the foundation of a fastball that is how you think of it and release it if you think of that you're throwing a slider a lot of guys are like this like a Zach gallon thought about told me about his slider saying I need I call it a cutter but it's a slider because I need to think it's a cutter and not a slider I need to make sure that I'm staying straight behind it all the way like it's a fast like you would with a cutter if I think it's a slider that I'm gonna open up too much and superate too much right you have to I think those are the best ones the job at Chamberlin one is the classic gyro slider to me and that is just he's throwing straight over he's just doing everything and straight straight down boom you know that's a fast ball that happens to be a slider right um that's why I think why yeah like Nola and Morton haven't learned sliders you know like I I think it's their arm action I'm listening to you is their arm I'm listening to you and I'm like there got to be front tube finger dominant they can they can uh so with that if you can still hear this it's like curveball comes out like this however they are throwing from three quarters yeah and they're coming around at like uh like that essentially they're coming around like this right you do that with a slider and you're already coming across it too much you're not really wor you're not getting you're not able to just go like this on you're coming across like that right sorry for everybody listening on uh on the podcast you got to go watch the video um but so it makes sense for me it was actually a struggle I had at first and I had to find one by the end of it but I never really felt like I was getting straight out and down on it on the that's why you have guys like Nola and mortyn they typically go the Clark Schmidt route the sweeper because you're on the side of it more and instead getting on top of it right so those that have like high ivb for seamers it's why it's the srino thing high ivb four seamers means you're on top and you throw a good slider right and then it's more north south so that's why I'm generally like oh sweepers a main thing um probably not a great fastball too and then then all of a sudden the whole thing Cascades right I mean that's the sweeper is like kind of the Sinker Sinker slider package is that what I think I think you're guy yeah so how good your cutter and change up are because if you don't have really good cutter and change up you're Hayden with sninsky yeah yeah exactly um and then you uh and then the last thing I want to mention with Hayden what's interesting about Hayden you're were talking about more about opening up and when I watch him it's more about just being too North like just everything is just way up it's not always missing on side no it's like a foot above a lot there's so many misses with Hayden they're just like oh okay all the way up there right and it's very rare to see him I mean I could be wrong but see I don't know what mechanically you're doing when you when you do when you miss up but over the Zone that's it's well over the plate and I mean the same thing it just means that he's a north south guy he's just like he's not well just think of it this way um if you are coming at it like this like a diagonal right 45 degree angle when you miss too early it's going to go both you know both X and Y axis but if you're only y axis and you're over the plate already and you miss it's going to be just up right bertong is very much of a I think he is more North South and I mean look at the curve the curve is his best thing that thing is not like a big wide horizontal pitch that's that's over the top guy that's a slider that's a gyro one right so my instinct is like oh you just got to get your arm out sooner yeah you gota like it don't don't the end may you could clean up something in the back like a shorter yeah that's why that's why I'm talking about the stuff that was a transition you gota get that that arm out sooner um that's my idea and sometimes when you see that like oh watch him do the whole Geo uh shift the uh yeah you know honestly that could be it for bird song right um so I don't there were things like that that get me kind of intrigued because when you're not missing as much East West I feel like oh that's a that's a much easier thing to figure out glass now right it's like oh he's up down you know let's just give him one target although I was watching uh for targets was it Harrison who was I watching they gave him one target oh Joe Bole why I'm shocked he actually hit him it was a 62% Zone rate for Joe Bole he's he's doing the one target yeah but like he no I mean oh my God his fast not his slider 52% strike rate on the slider 62% Zone rate on the fast ball I'm just saying good yeah so the target for the fastball it was Target was the same for the fastball and slider right and the fast ball was actually yeah the fast ball he dotted Some Like It looked okay down the middle right yeah slider slider like people doubt that that pitchers missed by 13 inches they should watch that start cuz he was missing by like 28 Ines oh my gosh it's so much the target was high in a way for lefties that was the one Target and he would yank sliders that almost hit the left-hander in the foot oh my gosh and you're like are you really using that Target or are you just not even using any Target yeah there's there's nothing here I I photoshopped him in the Wild Thing jacket and shirt glasses and aming I can't help but like I'm fascinated by Joe boy starts I can't say that I love watching them they're a little bit painful but like I am fascinated by the idea so if you birt song is a better example of this we like here's a got a good slider he's got good V there's something that I like I would love to take him if you were talking like fantasy I'd love to take him late in a draft you know I'd love to you know as a you think you what you're saying is that you do see someone who could El some make some tweak with the fast that actually another guy totally with you there especially considering that curveball has become the number two pitch for him really the number one I should say for one game actually was there for him um since that first Colorado game so it's like three Bo might be a coach killer where oh no he's a he's a reliever like question my head that Joe Bo's a relever um but that I think that's gotta end it for this week you know what are you working on right now what we got uh I've got a piece of today where we picked the uh 2028 Olympic team oh my gosh we actually had some projections KY Dan zorski so we had a little fun with it uh and a piece going up tomorrow about what the secret sauce is uh analytically behind the Orioles hitters so got some some VBA talk in there nice VBA the ivb of hitters love it um and uh for us I mean guys you can watch this on uh YouTube as well of course with fireside chat and on the corner too so go check those out on YouTube um but that is going to do it for this episode of The Craft special thanks to iOS SARS for being such a wonderful guest today my name is Nick poock and we'll talk about the craft pitching again next week goodbye