EP 5 PART 2 - THE FOX HOLLOW FARM HAUNTINGS - HERB BAUMEISTER

[Music] oh my God welcome back to I swear to drunk I am not God I am I am your host uh Britney Perkins or Brit Brit Perkins is preferred um so I really really really really thank you for you know if you're hearing my voice then that means that you made it to this week and you should be grateful um and also you've made it to the podcast and I'm hoping I'm just hoping that maybe just so you know just cuz we're friends um I'm hoping that you actually did listen to the first episode cuz you kind of need to in order to um to enjoy this one um the last episode which was episode five part one was the Fox Hollow Farm murders which was the terrible crimes of uh herb bow Meister uh we went into him we got we got we got pretty deep in him into oh God why does that sound it's just like it's just not right we got really deep into him for an hour and a half but you see what him whatever we got into him for an hour and a half that was a very very uncomfortable hour and a half um um but you're here now and we're enjoying each other so what what am I drinking what am I drinking um I am drinking a Cosmopolitan very simple very easy incredibly easy um that will be I use coin trol uh you can use Triple Sec if you would like to use just a regular cheapy version of triple sec that's fine too you just need that little that little pop um and then cranberry juice lemon juice and your preferred WKA um any vodka obviously will do I prefer Tios I will always always prefer titos um so yeah you you put that in a Shaker shake it up for about 15 seconds 20 maybe with 30 if you want it to be really really cold and opens up those flavors and you pour it you strain it into a martini glass and that is your Cosmopolitan I'm drinking that and I have a Shaker here just sitting sweating waiting for me to need to drink more of it I actually bought one of those really cool shakers that um that provides like the different Cocktails so you can like while you're drunk and entertaining you can just swivel it and it'll give you the ingredients that you need to make anything you want a Malibu a martini an apple martini a gimlet a margarita a m taii a Cosmopolitan so um I I cheated but it you know it's fantastic and it suits um how I'm feeling today which I'm feeling fine okay my last episode I was a little sick um I'm on the I hope I'm on the ass end of whatever the [ __ ] I picked up I'm hoping it wasn't RSV or or anything weird what I do know it wasn't covid that's the only thing at this point that matters um I'm also actively diligently working on my sinuses with an allergist and with my ENT so taking a lot of meds doing a lot of nasal rinsing so if I sound congested which you know I usually do that's because I not just because of my condition but also because I'm in the process of fixing it so this is what healing looks like um so now I want to kind of give you a little bit of an update on um not even an update but a recap and I will have an update you know shortly but I want to give you a recap of her bow Meister I'm not going to go s super deep into him you already know um weird herb which I learned as I was researching the second part um was what he was also called and you know I'm kind of okay with just calling him weird herb going forward um he he was killing allegedly he was killing men particularly gay men in in Indiana um and possibly Ohio between 1980 and 1995 is right um he was kind of accused of being the I70 Strangler as well that person is still considered as identified but he is the prime suspect there um her bow Meister had he would travel to gay bars in Indianapolis he would bring men back to his estate known as the Fox Hollow Farm and he would uh kill them and uh through erotic exfix and then you know have a little sex and then he dispose of their bodies so um where we left off on the first episode too his um um his son finds a bone bones in the the back of their house which was like this wooded area and uh that's kind of where his tail starts to kind of spiral because you know he was getting kind of arrogant and sloppy so you know he eventually he got kind of got caught by his own son um and from there you know whatever hey go watch go listen to [ __ ] part one like don't make make me do this now I'm hoping that you made you a Cosmopolitan if you didn't that's fine but drink whatever the [ __ ] you drinking if that's water if that's coffee if that's tea do your thing all right so now fast for herbmeister killed himself on July 3rd 1996 um now I didn't really think about what I was getting into by investigating the Paranormal stuff I want to preface this real quick because I usually give myself about 10 minutes to do that I got about three more minutes I um I enjoy paranormal stories I do not like to watch paranormal investigative shows I think they're corny they're not entertaining to me um and so but when it comes to stories I really do find them very fascinating and I will give you two shows in particular that one I think one is Canadian I went on a binge this had to be like I want to say five Christmases ago yeah cuz I that's the type [ __ ] I watch on Christmas um and the only re reason why I remember that is because I was staying at Sal's place and I was like you know searches through Netflix it was cold I think it is snowed I was by myself and so you know me and my dog were just like chilling in the bed and then I was like you know I want to watch a paranormal [ __ ] and so I watched the show called paranormal Survivor and that show is probably to me one of the best paranormal shows ever like the the the stories are fascinating the um the way that the survivors tell their story is almost like they are being attacked by physical you know like if you've ever watched I survived or anything like that I like shows like that where you tell the story I don't want to do the whole EVP thing the whole not into that like at all um so I picked up this book um regarding the fox Holo farms and I linked it in the show notes to help me along and you know and there were some very interesting things that came out of it as well okay like you know we'll we'll learn some details that I didn't really um pick up on when I did the first part and then you know now doing the second part I kind of know some things I kind of got some new opinions about some some things so I kind of just wanted to preface that um I'm not being into paranormal investigative shows but I enjoy the stories there is an investigative comp component to this particular story because this book was written by the investigator I don't engage in it that that much with you know the episode I'm about to present to you now because again I don't care I I mean if we're just being 100% honest I don't find it I don't it's it's useless information to me oh God I'm sorry I inheld my Cosmopolitan now sitp while I get some of that out of my throat now her bow Meister killed himself on July 3rd 1996 when his body was discovered the first person said that there was no gun at the scene that was the first person that arrived then there was the story where the cops were able to bring his gun back over the border so obviously there was a gun even though they were not allowed to take their own service weapons now in my opinion I don't know I don't know border patrol I wonder if they allowed um them to bring the gun back because it's an American registered gun um in Canada versus them bringing their service weapons into their country I think that's probably why that kind of happened that way Bel so then there was another rumor that he was found lying in the middle of an occult symbol surrounded by dead birds I don't know how much that is true I I'm going to be honest I don't I'm not digging in no blogs like what's the point you know what I mean we weren't there why would you dig in the blogs to even find out but that's an interesting little Timbit to to to to mention so I did there's no definitive answer though um to his condition when he was discovered which to me is is is I would say it's probably strange but I think it depends on how many people discovered him and I think it depends on um how many people were just traing around a crime scene I mean there is this weird he didn't have a gun he was a part of another like this ult group look not going to knock it all things are possible okay all things are possible um this man was pretty evil I don't know what he engaged in but he was sloppy on a lot of other fronts I kind of feel like there'd be more evidence of this in other ways if um this were true I mean there is the you know whole videotape thing which if you listen to part one you'd know he recorded his crimes as well and um when he committed suic right before he committed suicide he was caught under a bridge taken a nap by uh a police officer and they let him go but one thing that she did mention was that in the back seat he had a box full of tapes um he passed a lot of waterways and canals and rivers as he was uh heading toward Canada or deeper into Canada the likelihood of the VHS tapes being recovered at this point is pretty unlikely um I mean unless he put him in a bag and the bag is watertight I highly doubt we'll ever find those um now back to the property so when he killed these people all of these men these poor men um and honestly it was never really proven whether or not herb killed them at all uh the reality of it is is that you got a possible suspect who has now committed suicide you you really ain't got Sal lots to works with okay what you do have though is Witnesses and you have a lot of circumstantial evidence that would make it obvious I mean it makes it obvious that he was definitely involved in something and he he had his little quirks so what was interesting too is that when they went to the property it was obvious that herb had just placed the bodies in the woods and he was just simply just like allowing them to decompose and that means that they weren't buried so once they were decomposed he would set them on fire they did find like burn piles where you know like a 10-ft burn pile actually um where he would start to kind of break down some of those bones and on the west side of the property they found several bones at the bottom of the creek which was behind the home so the animals you know would eventually get to the bodies and then start to pull the bodies apart piece by piece and carry them off consume them put them in W you know whatever whether they were you know land creatures and they ended up in water whatever but they knew that animals were taking the pieces and carrying them off and that is why it has been so hard to kind of just find like whole bodies they're finding pieces of bodies just bones so as of November 28th of this year um investigators were able to match a bone found in a tank on the bow Meister property and they found the DNA matches a victim by the name of John Turner so police um they will they will likely never know what happened to him though um just because you find a bone you're able to match the the the victim doesn't mean you know the story um but the Hamilton County coroner office said they're redoubling their efforts to identify the remains so with the help of new DNA technology they should be be able to match some of the profiles with genealogical databases so thank you genealogical databases cuz that's been that's been actually pretty helpful in a lot of cold cases um they're also asking if anyone knows or knew sorry any male or or had any male relatives missing during the like late 800 uh late 1800s the [ __ ] uh in the late 1980s through 1990s I'm sorry not late just even the late cuz he was killing men possibly through the 80s um they want you to come in to provide a DNA sample so they have 10,000 bones they need samples to match them with and the contact is the Hamilton County corers office at 31777 4415 as of 3 days ago on December fourth the Indiana can9 search and Recovery brought out around 10 dogs to help search the property for more human remains eight men have been found total but they know there are at least 12 more they're trying to match and how do they know because they're finding the like bones that a person would only have one of so I know um like they would find you know that that like bone that's right under your thumb if they find 12 right ones or 12 left ones then they know you know that there had to be 12 different individuals cuz obviously people only have one of those so because DNA is now faster and cheaper to process this should be easier um and they hope to find more victims so they can lay them to rest and so their F families can have some peace so I want to drink real quick for all of those victims because that's just this is just messed up now after Herb's death the bow meisters ended up moving back into another house owned by Julie and Fox Hollow ended up back in the hands of the original owner who had a 5-year contract with the bow meisters as of November 2022 the new owners Robert Graves and his wife Vicki they live there with their two sons and he and his family have experienced hauntings they've experienced hauntings constantly so they decided to have paranormal investigators come in their home they have they you know they sometimes host tours which I get you know they like look man we I mean this this place is a satellite we should probably not even just capitalize on it but anybody here who who has the experience who can you know help these people move along help the spirit Move Along help uh kind of close some of these portals they should come so he kind of opened up his home he also opened up his home to paranormal investigators now the writer of this book um the horrors of Fox Hollow Farm his name is Rich is Estep um he's also an investigator he was given free reain and was allowed access to every acre of the state to report back to the graves family now so how did they end up there in 2006 this was you know what 16 years ago Graves family and his um I'm sorry Graves who is Robert and his family were looking for a new home so they're what people would call horse people they love the idea of Fox Hollow Farm and they love the community that the community was pleasant so the county was considered at one time the best place to live in in America they show up at the property to meet the realtor and they found that Fox Hollow Farm was surround Ed by a large horse farm the house was fantastic but it was well it wasn't wellmaintained and it stunk I mean there was a raccoon problem some of the drywall was collapsing but over overall the house was pretty sturdy so the original owners had put a lot of money into the building of the property the house itself was worth 1 million in 1977 Graves had asked why the house was not occupied and the realtor was honest and told him what what had happened there the asking price at the time was $2.8 Million which was the going rate for the area so they were like bet but they left the property to decide whether or not this was something they could afford and whether or not it was a house that was worth it considering the history was pretty goddamn morbid so the family decided you know what it's worth it they made a counter offer the owners didn't like the counter offer then after 2 years the owner contacted them directly and they were the only people that offered anything so by 2009 they moved they moved to Fox Hollow Farm now I know look look look sip ain't no way in hell unless that counter offer un actually I don't know what counter offer I would have accepted here's what here is if it was the Britney's the Perkins Family this is how it would have happened drive up to Fox Hollow Farm husband in the back husband in the back cuz that's where he belong I'm just joking kids in the back husband in the front cool driving and then we get there we find out this the bow Meister house and then I'm like how much you asking for for 2.8 million by that's what's happening that's the exchange that's the exchange the house was probably worth 2.8 million but once I found out who the [ __ ] lived in it and what the [ __ ] he was doing in there I would have been out I would have been out I don't need it I don't got time I don't care about horses that much I don't care about Farms that much I don't care about isolation that much I don't want it I don't want the problems okay I don't want the problems so they move in three years after discovering this place and the first night they all slept in the same room which lowkey valid absolutely valid totally I mean [ __ ] if it was a new house and it wasn't haunted I think that most people would probably just locally you know what I mean be like okay we just going to all sleep in the living room I think that makes more logistical sense you know what I'm saying so but the problem was too they had electrical issues they had pest issues they have Plumbing issues so the thing is this house ain't even really it ain't even 2.8 million material okay and it's kind you know so I get I get the family being like look we going to sleep in the same room now the lawn was 4 feet tall because it hadn't been maintained the swimming pool needed to be cleaned it needed to be refilled it took six hours to cut the [ __ ] grass no ma'am negative negative 6 hours six hours to cut just to cut the grass so they realized very quickly that the big ass house thing had some big ass problems and this house was going to need a lot of work but they did love the seclusion so the nearest neighbor by the way was half a mile away half a mile away but they did every now again have to deal with strangers just popping up because of course it's her bow meister's house everybody everybody else knows about it and you know Murder freaks who are like okay you know I'm just going to pop up at her B's house see what's going on but the owner did believe that he figured that most people thought that the house was vacant I also think that most people were probably trying to figure out why anyone would actually live there now eventually Rob I'm calling him Rob because he clears clearly he's my friend eventually Rob would have someone move in that upstairs uh apartment and in the upstairs apartment there's a 1200 square ft apartment that's actually above the garage and he had a cooworker who was kind of like always coming late Rob worked at a car dealership and his cooworker was always showing up late and so he was like yo you know I'm sorry it's just that this traffic is shitty and so then Rob offered him an opportunity to live in his apartment he was like look I mean it was just you know with this guy it was just him and his dog and so Rob was like look me and Vicki we got a little apartment upstairs just you know just you could you could have it it's 12 square square feet you can move in with us that way you can get back and forth to work it's just you and your dog and so he moves in joola Blanc and um he was warned about the property but Joe wasn't really he wasn't really bothered by it he seemed actually excited about living in a place like that so almost immediately Vicky Rob's wife she was in the swimming pool room she was cleaning the kids had been [ __ ] around in there and the gravel had like they had kind of like drug gravel into like the pool area the pool is in the basement and she said the vacuum that she was using just turned itself off it just turned off she was like what is happening she noticed that it was unplugged now it was plugged into an extension cord the way I kind of read it it was kind of like one of those like extension cords that like the um the power supply you know with the switch so the back she you know she plugged it back in and then she continued to vacuum cuz she thought she had just kind of like yanked it out of the extension cord but then as she was vacuuming the plug unplugged again and she didn't pull it out of the socket so she was like mad confused and apparently Vicki's a scientist so she and they say scientist I don't know what type of scientist she was but she was a scientist so she tried to come up with a logical answer but nothing and she went back to vacuuming so after plugging it in again this time the plug just [ __ ] flew out of the outlet and she actually saw it happen she said she sensed she wasn't alone she said it felt like someone was there she told Rob afterward quote and I got this strong sense that this invisible someone didn't want me to be in there with them end quote so that's Vicky that's the wife that's her first experience Joe his first nice night in the house had a dream he was running through the woods he was terrified something was chasing him he could see he couldn't like see who it was but his instincts in the dream told him that he was in danger and because he was half asleep he leapt out of the bed and ended up running into the door frame and bumping his head he then started to hear things he would hear like knocking on the door of his apartment he would open the door to find that no one was there he felt a dreadful presence and then later while watching TV he thought he saw something flash by him and when he went to go investigate there was nothing so Rob while working on the house one day he heard his wife arried from work he had been pain painting and [ __ ] and you know Vicky pulls up and then Vicky they're talking they you know she's like oh [ __ ] you did a good job and then he notices she notices a figure in the woods on the side of the house and at first she thought oh [ __ ] another trespass then she says she saw a young man in a bright red shirt and jeans his back was to her so she didn't see his face but then she said from the thighs down his legs were missing then it just vanished so Graves Rob heads to the trees to find the man but then there was like no evidence of the man and Vicki was like not okay she was like what the absolute [ __ ] is going on by the way this is broad daylight that was Vicki's first sighting sip now excuse me a month into jool lablanc State he's out walking his dog when he heard a sound not common in the woods the sound he'd heard was not what he was used to I guess he kind of was just like used to like crickets and bugs and M you know cicas and [ __ ] I don't know so his dog just stopped his dog his dog was walking you know dogs they know [ __ ] and he started staring off in the distance then he started to growl so the dog just [ __ ] ran off he's like I am out bro but he didn't run away he ran into the tree line toward something and Joe saw the man in the tree line with the red shirt and no leg legs then the man disappeared his dog did not come back but he you know he like yo like this my best friend you know you don't leave your dog he didn't want to leave his dog so he headed toward the tree line where the dog ran and he started to just feel really uncomfortable and with his flashlight he saw the [ __ ] man in the red shirt and the Man in the red shirt was just staring at him the dog came out of nowhere ran behind like like was like you know Joe's like I'm getting a [ __ ] up out of here the dog came out of nowhere was like pop pop and he was like we out and they ran and so Joe and his dog changed their nightly routine they were like yeah nah hard pass uh night walks don't seem to be the mood so Vicki and Joe were sure that they saw the same ghosts walking in the same area and disappearing in the same area but who was he so one month later Joe found a 12in bone and Robert contacted a forensic pathologist the same one that dealt with CA the cases in the 990s and found that it was a left femoral shaft and it was human ooh no surprise there no surprise there so Joe would also experience the sound of walking in his apartment he would like continue to see strange figures walking in the woods he wouldn't see the red shirt man so often but he would see a black figure that he described as blacker than black so Joe would later have another experience with the door knocker The Knocks were so powerful that the door rattled and then he noticed that the door knocker was hanging at a 90° angle and that and then it just like knocked one more time and then it fell back to its original position now he knew something was playing with him I mean his dog was terrified he wouldn't come out like the dog wouldn't come out from under the bed and then the door knob started to turn back and forth and then stop and something was trying to get like something was trying to get an apartment so the door then Flyn flew back open onto its hinges and a man came up behind Joe while he was staring out of the doorway The Apparition uh The Apparition appeared like in a panic like he had been running for his life and then it just disappeared now Joe was convinced it was one of bow meister's victims reliving The Experience quote one Theory regarding such events in that the replay is some sort of natural recording that takes place in situations of extremely strong emotion it is it is almost as if the intense emotional energy can somehow imprint a sort of video recording on the atmosphere which can be played back and viewed at a future time by those who are capable of perceiving it in such cases there is not an intelligent entity at work the apparitions themselves are no more sentient than the people on our TV screens so then one night night end quote so so then one night the family they were like you know what this a lot happening we should probably look into like what's going on a little bit deeper so they started researching The Murders they started researching bow meister's dumbass and while watching one of the old TV news segments on videotape one of I mean that's like one of the things that happened was that Joe realized that he saw one of the victims in in his apartment he was 100% it was sure it was him the guy that ran that ran and looked like he was in a panic he saw him on one of the news segments as one of the men so the family at this point they were like this may be a good time to set up a camera system I mean it's a false sense of security but it kind of made the family feel comfortable but it was clear that there was something going on on the property one evening while the kids were playing in the pool Joe was underwater Joe LeBlanc was underwater he was towards the deep end when he came up for rest and he could feel cold large hands closing around his neck from behind and the other boys were at the end of the pool so he left this you know left the side of the pool and he started heading towards the center cuz he like what the [ __ ] so he I guess he just dripped off towards the center of the pool and that's when he felt two hands lock around his throat he could feel himself being dragged under a water the boys were just staring at him thinking that he was joking but he wasn't and he got out of the pool and refused to swim in the pool ever again which I'm like [ __ ] absolutely yeah not today sat then Joe and you know you're probably like why this [ __ ] keep happening to Joe Joe's special Joe's I think Joe Joe's a beacon of some sort because one time Joe was in his apartment when he heard a scraping noise noise and he can hear it coming from like the little kitchenet in his apartment and when he went to go check he saw that all of his knives were removed from the Block and were lined up in the sink there were even marks cut into the wall and he didn't even know if they were new or not he was like he had never noticed him before but he was he he was concerned he was concerned that maybe the guy he saw was actually stabbed in his apartment so he decided that he was going to do his own EVP if you know what EVP is that's an electronic voice phenomenon session um you know to me it kind of feels like a bad idea just saying you know just me like I do I do understand that you know people feel like you know maybe we should talk to it um I want to it's just that simple I want to I want to talk to it look I listen and watch weird [ __ ] you already know that about me I don't want to hear though I don't want to hear though I don't want none of that energy here though like after my relationship ended cuz my ex-boyfriend was evil I literally had to have my place cleaned like energetically cleaned because that [ __ ] is real I cannot imagine how thick the energy is in that in that area in that space so me just being like Oh just regular old Britney performing an EVP nah hard pass not gonna happen but he recorded some [ __ ] and he thought he he thought that he was being attacked by her bow Meister himself so excuse me if you if you hear me wee that's because you know fim you know you're grown you got it so quote Class A EVPs are crystal clear and it is very easy to make out the words that are being spoken having reviewed the EP EVP we must point out that it is a Class B recording in other words a little too muff muffled and indistinct to be absolutely unmistakably clear but of remarkable Clarity nonetheless the voice speaking is undeniably that of a man and it was not Joe's voice nor were there any other people present in the room when it was recorded So I mean take that with a grain of salt he recorded something the sound that he got was the married one that was the quote iin got nothing else on that now eventually Ghost Adventures came which I respect anybody's hustle not a fan not a fan of Ghost Adventures they do too much you know that's just my opinion I I just don't like it uh it's a paranormal show that's hosted by Zach ban if you don't know who Zach ban is he's like Ghost Adventures that's what he is is he does all that [ __ ] um they they'll spend a night in the hotel they'll investigate they'll you know what I mean like they'll do that type of thing and you know they they ended up coming to Fox Hollow Farm um they and the family spent the night in the hotel the team investigated so basically they did TV show [ __ ] I work in TV so you know even when I was reading about I was like sounds like some TV show [ __ ] now they did hear a loud noise in the pool room they picked up a Class A EVP of a man voice saying the word help uh when Zach asked the name the voice responded I'm dead you know after a few voice recordings clangs and a couple equipment problems ghost Avengers left you see what I'm saying like the [ __ ] you're probably like Britney you don't know Zach Zach ain't do [ __ ] to you he didn't but I don't know I just it's just corny the shows a corny so anyway now people believe that herb Spirit was still there they definitely definitely figured his victims were there was a shaman that believed that several of the Native American Spirits in the area were still active on the property one because they were pissed and two rightfully so and three because what the [ __ ] are you doing with our land you know Native American we talked about this and Moth Man with s Native American is Native Americans and and their appreciation of their land they injected with their energy so this whole idea of like American Native Americans being [ __ ] irritated with what's going on on their land is completely likely to me um and I'm not just saying this but I do have Native American background um was nah is a descendant of mine and he uh you know so I I I definitely get that as a is a descendant of mine yeah whatever I'm drunk so now enter Richard Estep who is the Paranormal Investigator that wrote this wonderful book I will say this book is good it is good I'm not I'm not going to take that away from him um he's been a paranormal investigator for 24 years um he decided to fly out to Indiana from Colorado to investigate Fox Hollow Farm he had five people with him um they set up their equipment on a bar downstairs and they had like Spirit boxes thermometers laser grids EMF readers they had had uh air air ionization meters they had motion sensors they had static and video cameras so they came fully like Ghostbuster loaded the grids were the first thing they set up the lasers are good for dark room so if Shadows or something cross then the beams will make it visible like the Shadows visible to the camera so they picked up a figure the first night but it was nothing spectacular it was determined that it wasn't anyone in the family and they were sure that that they that what they saw was not an animal but the mystery was kind of never solved so they knew there's something funky going on here but we don't really know what now the pool room was the first go and it was like freakishly eily quiet they did see a shadow but nothing was moving in the room and the laser just then died the batteries were were freshed but then they knew that like unexplained battery drains were possible um it's an indicator that normal energy is picking up and because energy is required to appear you know things tend to drain so they decided to play some 80s 90s gay bar music so they played I Will Survive by Gloria Gainer um on a loud speaker to kind of stimulate activity that made sense to them because they knew that there was a gay bar component and that maybe it would arouse some of the uh spirits of the victims or even her but there was no go so one of them thought they saw someone out of the window they found no one they tried to do an EVP session in the pool room they picked up a male energy in the middle of the pool like strong negative energy um likely not a victim though but could have been maybe her bow Meister um one of the investigators by the name of Cletus he heard a sigh and asked the energy if it was a woman I'm sorry if a woman present was okay and the spirits say yes after questions they listened to the audio but none of the responses were recorded so while they were in the kitchen figuring out what to do they heard footsteps on the staircase and the dog stood at the foot of the staircase but they couldn't figure out how the dog even got out they were like wait a minute like the dog how how and then when they looked the door at the top of the stairs was open so rich decided to use what was called the human pendulum technique and I'm going to explain what that is that he said quote the way this works is that one person volunteers to be the titular pendulum they stand in the middle of a fairly open space in this case at the shallow end of a pool and are watched closely by observers on both sides in our case we also video record the sessions for future analysis another investigator controls the session and acts as a questioner encouraging any entities present that wish to communicate to do so by means of the human pendulum an emphasis is placed on the fact that only spirits of an honest light nature are permitted to communicate and that dark entities are prohibited from doing so this sometimes but not always acts as a safety measure for the participants once the pendulum is opened up the questioner asks the spirits to demonstrate the yes position the person acting as the pendulum is often surprised to find themselves some themselves tilting forward backward or to one side completely against their will I swear I'm not doing that it's an all too common response for the first time pendulum volunteers now once the yes position has been established the same needs to be done for the no position and then you're off to the races as they say in Kentucky roughly 40 to 50% of people I've tried this technique on have been susceptible to it leaving aside the possibility of an intentional fraud I completely trust the Integrity of those on my team there are two obvious explanations for what is going on with the human pendulum most Skeptics come down on the side of it all being micr muscular motion a series of completely involuntary nervous signals that are causing the volunteer to sway back and forth in respond to question in response to questions after all many of us have a deep subconscious desire to please this is one explanation for how Spirit boards work micr muscular trimers in the hands and forearms moving the planet around to spell out meaningful words the Skeptics do indeed have a point at this as this is a very real neurologic reflex and one that the experiencer has no control control over however I believe that it is also possible to genuine spirit communication for genu genuine spirit communication to occur via those same means just because the spirit board and the human pendulum sometimes fall victim to false positives does not mean that this is always the case end quote so Shan during this experience feels fingertips touching his hands sexually Aaron felt herself being pushed in the back then they finally got the chance to meet Joe now Joe LeBlanc is like I said a beacon he he picks up a lot of energy there's a lot that um that happens when he's around and he is honestly the one that felt the most experiences so they were just excited to finally meet him sip so quote Joe believes that fox Hall Farms is haunted by seven discret and separate entities he began to check them off on his fingers as he's named them all you've got her bow Meister himself or something that likes to masquerade as him then there's five of of his victims and finally the elemental Elementals are reputed to be non-human spirits that arise from the land from Woods streams and rocks and many cultures believe in them some actively so whereas in others they have faded into myth and folklore but the concept is prevalent among societies around the world whatever it is they figured it lived in the woods in the back and it wasn't human that's for sure because Joe he didn't necessarily think it was demonic but he wasn't really sure it wasn't either I mean he just knew that at the end of the day this [ __ ] is like mad weird so some nights Joe you know he would take his late night run which I'm like Joe night ain't for you it it's just not and that's when he would see that black blacker than black figure moving around um and um and it was in the same area of where they saw the man in the red shirt so that was the investigative team's first visit they were like we kind of had some moments but really not really so they you know they packed up and they left cuz [ __ ] got day jobs and they decided that they were going to you know they come back at a later time so you know Rich thought that maybe since Joe was gone the place was less active so they leave Fox Hollow Farm they return 18 18 months later because obviously in this in between time Joe moves out 18 months later they like you look we need to come back ask some more questions to get some more evidence cuz Fox Hollow Farm is a little spicy so there is something dark and siner in the house for sure and this time he bought he brought along Stephen who was a friend and a Catholic priest who was also a sensitive he brought um Stephen he brought his opinion you know of from the religious side and from the spiritual side but he was also of the opinion that the negative energy in the home wasn't herb at all I mean he just said it wasn't entirely human but for some reason it was drawn to the farm because of all the negative things that had taken place there he also felt the entity loved to impersonate herb I it's stupid I call that the Rat King do you know what a rat king is it's terrible you should Google it though um the reason why I'm calling it a rat king is when he said that all the negative things that took place there kind of created this other entity it reminded me of the Rat King because Rat Kings are what happened when rats tails get tangled up to a point where they can't get off of each other it just gets worse worse bigger bigger it's sometimes they eat each other and [ __ ] to get off of each other um you're probably like Britney why do you even know what the [ __ ] that means I can't explain it uh I did have a friend I did have a cooworker by the named Chelsea she was the first person who told me what a [ __ ] Rat King was and I googled it I'm terrified of rats by the way but um she told me what a rat king was was and I was like yo that exist on Earth God damn Google Rat King all right so but it made me think of that because if you got all these Spirits together that somehow all the negative energy together that create its own negative entity I'm calling it The Rat King but in this particular uh case it's intelligent enough to impersonate herb so quote herb does still drop in from time to time this is what Steph said he said but he isn't a resident here like some people seem to think he is he's not around very much at all and there are some others um still Earthbound they may be some of his former victims but I'm not 100% sure about that end quote Now Rich also had with him three other investigators and Jason being one from the first one um he Rich decided to return to the farm and and it's likely because of the warmer months because they did do this like uh Plunge in the pool on the first visit they didn't really find anything spectacular but they did do a polar I call it a Polar Plunge cuz they said it was cold as hell when they got in that pool um and it could be too that one of the reasons why it made more sense to come back to the warmer one months is because they wanted to explore more of the woods but also if they needed to get back in the pool they wouldn't have to worry about the pool water being so uh cold so interestingly though they were able to talk on the phone with Tony Harris remember him if you watched episode one you do and I'm saying watched I'm just gonna always say watch because in my head I'm a TV show host I'm not it's an episode that is a podcast and you listen you don't watch but Tony let me give you a little backstory on Tony in part one Tony is kind of the guy who helped NAB herp he was the one that in a way sacrificed himself now as I was getting into the Paranormal stuff his story start to get a little murky okay cuz I've seen I've seen a few things I've seen he was a friend of someone I've seen he was an informant he may have been both I've seen that you know he was a lover of herb then I just saw that he was informed I was just like doing this for his friend you know what I'm saying and um in this particular book they focus on the fact that he was his lover I mean he was the lover of herb bow Meister uh Tony it's also incredibly psychically sensitive in the first episode I do mention I was like he was a good friend and he you know that he has this intuition he's you know he knows that it's herb and he follows him he he makes sure that he's like kicking it with herb and all this other [ __ ] in order to get the information so he can NAB the the perpetrator but it could possibly be that Tony was just really really a sensitive and and and what I mean by sensitive is that he's just flat out [ __ ] psychic um um Tony has an odd connection to this story he has come back to the property um post herb and he refers to the negative entity that is in the house as the Frog um because he said that whatever it was it had an amphibian look almost like a toad um turns out you know nobody else has that experience but Tony but he felt that the fog the Frog was mostly in the swimming pool area um and and he felt like uh he it was able to move among the home and the grounds so the goal of this though is like okay well then you know maybe we should get some more evidence on the Frog and especially the nonhuman entity the Frog so with this Joel LeBlanc comes back which I'm like these people are so friendly y'all friendly y'all friendly cuz once I moved I ain't no guarantee I'm coming back I'm going be 100% honest with you he decided he was going to come back he was going to meet up with investigators this to me this is also one of those moments where I'm like maybe you know these people are truly having this experience cuz you know [ __ ] just hit me up on the line and be like look you know we're chilling over here at the Fox Hollow Farm you want to have a conversation be like hell no I don't want to have a conversation but then there are some people who are like yeah because this [ __ ] really [ __ ] happened to me and I want somebody I want to talk about it that's kind of the vibe I get from jool LeBlanc he came back to meet the investigators he's no longer a resident but the team is like optimistic knowing that his like his presence seems to like get these Spirits riled up pretty easily so they're thinking [ __ ] we may actually we may actually get some [ __ ] from from Joe um Joe seems to also be sensitive uh so he's like standing there he's looking at the door knocker of his old apartment he said quote this door knocker always used to knock itself at the same time 1:45 in the morning there were seven knocks each time always seven knocks no more no less and when Rob's son woke him up to tell him that somebody was knocking on the door to his bedrooms that was also at45 five because now Rob is in Rob's son is in that apartment now the Joe's moved out so rich felt like quote it was more likely to be a residual phenomenon than an intelligent one perhaps some kind of psychic left over from the days in which the bow meisters had lived at Fox Hollow Joe had encountered somebody close to the family one day we shall keep this man's identity Anonymous who had said that this that during his divorce herb had lived in the in-law apartment rather than the main house and that sometimes when he came home late and found himself locked out he could climb the wooden staircase knock on the door in an attempt to get something to get somebody to open it it was an intriguing story and if true which can't prove or disprove it would in some way explain the Phantom noises that Disturbed Joe and the grave son so while while Joe was with the paranormal investigators the topic of Tony and his belief in the in an accomp yeah had come up this now Tony is the only well he's not really the only person that's believes as a comp an accomplice but he definitely does he believes that his name he won't say his name he said it's slj which means sounds like Joe Tony found him so evil that he refused to say his name at all and at that time joola Blanc got a call from Tony Harris so while they're investigating they get you know Joe gets a call from Tony Tony told him that slj was active at Fox Hol farm this is a quote that evening and was prowling around the house because he was interested to see what what they were up to huh wow so in this investigation they're like okay we going to move room to room all them rooms that we know for sure that you know people have picked up [ __ ] in and we going to reinvestigate so one room was Vicki's onsite bathroom there was an EVP session conducted there and one of the investigators saw a white cat a white cat that was not pres present prior and a cat not owned by the owner so later in that evening the investigator saw the cat again it walked past her legs it even walked past her legs to the point where she could feel it and headed off into the woods and just disappeared in another room really active was the locker room the locker room by the pool one of the visiting tour guides Lisa she hated this room one time she went past the room to go to the toilet and when she that's when she felt a sudden burst of adrenaline which we all know is the feeling one gets when they're a Dilla is triggered by fear and your fight ORF flight response goes [ __ ] ham so she said she could hear a literal voice in her head telling her to get the hell out of there she felt like someone was in a room with her so she refused to go into that room or near that room again uh yeah smart quote yet she still could not say why that was exactly although she did have a theory that she believed was in her own words quote kind of wacky when I pressed her on the subject Lisa said that she believed that somebody somebody else was involved in the murders somebody who was now dead and whose Spirit was still Earthbound at Fox Hollow Farm Lisa is now number two Tony believes that there was a complice and Lisa believes that now it's believed that her bow Meister was not the only person involved in the murders but there were probably two other people slj and maybe Larry iser slj we do not know who the [ __ ] that is but Larry iser was a psycho highway killer he murdered over 20 boys in the midwest between 1982 and 1984 you know I mean I don't know there seems to be a serial killer Club I don't know I don't have you all ever watched clown and the Candyman that was when they kind of like started connect serial killers like John Wayne gasy to other people and possibly like these whole rings you know and I I was talking to salid day about the [ __ ] cuz I'm like yo how the [ __ ] do these people find each other and it's likely because you know like attracts like mhm I don't know are you hanging out at a bar you start talking about strangling and murdering boys you get drunk you snort some cocaine and you start [ __ ] around having these conversations I don't know I don't know I don't I don't know if it's the same conversation one would have about Harry Potter books you know it's like oh I met this guy at the coffee shop we started talking about Harry Potter it's like oh I met this guy at the coffee shop and we started talking about murdering gay boys and we were like yo I murder gay boys too I do too how the [ __ ] does that happen you know like I'm not even like I'm serious like how do how does that happen like you you meet a whole other dude that does the same weird [ __ ] that you do who feels so and I mean who knows who knows I just know that like this isn't the first time I've heard about this [ __ ] where and I know that there are like you know you think of a Hillside Strangler you find out that they're [ __ ] related it's like being related that's a little different you know Richard Ramirez he he kind of learned how to kill from like his [ __ ] uncle or cousin or some [ __ ] who was in war like you kind of understand that connection but like how you got a partner in this [ __ ] how you know it's like it's just such a you know it's just such a [ __ ] up topic like when is this coming up that's my that's my question sorry I'm drunk but whatever when do the [ __ ] does this come up so so herb if he still haunts the house his Apparition is typically not evil um Lisa says she saw she saw him Lisa says she saw him standing in the window once herb um which is likely just residual energy which is that's when the evil leaves I mean I'm sorry the energy leaves almost like a recording in a particular space and then it's just played on a loop that's what she probably saw it's also likely I mean on a religious front the herb is kind of like stalling his attempt to avoid whatever is coming after death um you know if you believe in that sort of thing now there are portals that are mentioned multiple times throughout the book there are other locations in the woods as well especially the areas around the burn piles Herb's bathroom was also a problem for women um women typically feel unwelcomed there since he didn't like his wife to see him naked and would only get undressed in his own bathroom um his bathroom is believed to be a part which is a quote Gateway that is said to allow Spirits be Spirit beings two-way access to their own realm of existence and our own material world so let's talk about Brian Sanders though you're like who who is that Brian Sanders was um brought in by Rob Robert Graves the owner of the property he was a psychic medium Brian he seemed pretty legit I didn't look him up but I'm I don't know if he's black cuz it kind of comes up but I think he may be black or other Brian approached Rob years prior to introduce himself and told Rob that the spirit had led him to his home Rob felt that Brian was different uh Brian believed that the spirits were growing tired of all of these [ __ ] visiting the house they did not want to be treated like a sideshow attraction and if they were going to be re see if they were going to receive visitors if they were going to accept visitors they could at least let them help them move on I mean which is a valid [ __ ] request to me that's an intelligent energ entity when when you got people tracing through your [ __ ] taking pictures of your [ __ ] and like you know oh I saw this kid running it's like yeah could you help me move on then like so Brian was the first to be like yo the spirits are kind of irritated with this whole situation they're not circus freaks they want to be they want to rest so Brian kind of proved his skill by mentioning to Rob um a woman named Helen who was Vicki's mother's best friend and he also mentioned Aunt Jean who was Vicky's aunt and Brian started picking up on the Native American Spirits as well um he also picked up on the victims so Rob kind of believes that Brian Sanders was the best psychic to ever come to Fox Hol and so he checks Brian checks with Rich to make sure his intentions are good he's like Rich the author of the book and the investigator he checks to see if his intentions are good he's like yo you know I'll join the team but I just want to make sure we on the level so when he entered the area they used as a base camp the bar area Brian was confused as to how they could work in like so much residual energy he's like he goes well how are y'all working breing down to him the area was literally like Grand Central Station um it is also Brian who believes that there was a portal in the swimming pool and the closet by the way um Brian believes that there was something that was there pretending to be herb he said that herb is not here but there is something here that pretends to be him this is an entity that was created from all of the negative energy at Fox Hollow and that's what you have to watch out for Richard it has some aspects of Herb's personality but it's actually not him his actions FedEd made it grow Rat King told you so Brian was sure that the entity could be pretending to be herb and speaking the way he did to trick them for his for its own amusement and people may have been thinking they were talking to her but they were actually talking to the Rat King so Brian told them quote we need to be aware that this entity could very well assume the guise of her bow Meister speaking in the same way that he did with a view to tricking or misleading us for its own Amusement many of those who had come to Fox Hollow in the past and assumed that they had made contact with the spirit of the I70 Strangler Strangler were really communicating with it instead Brian believed that herb was not able to be reached he was in a specific place like purgatory and did not have the ability to communicate he also believes that herb couldn't truly help himself when committing the acts he was very sick really sick so Brian said that one room he would not go into was the pool area the swimming pool was a portal the amount of negative energy caused it to form Brian said that the pool looks like quote a purple and greenish energy portal portal right there under the water with human hands rising up from it I could hear the voices talking because the Native American Spirits were already on the land the evil Deeds that b engaged in caused the energy to grow he believed that the reason why Vicki didn't like that bathroom was because of the quote young guy Brian believes the young guy was in a state of confusion not knowing he was dead and Vicki picks up on his energy and according to Brian the quote extremely psychic Joe had actually gotten himself snared up in the spirit portal which acted like a kind of Vortex or Wormhole I mean Whirlpool sorry my words he said Whirlpool drag dagging him under the water the hands that he felt clutching at his neck were those which were blindly groping free of the portal Brian explained and were not meant to be an assault on him at all so if you remember that instance when Joe had his experience in the pool with the other with the kids Brian is saying that that was just the hands grabbing him accidentally it's like we weren't trying to bring you in us we just we we scraping we need we groping we trying to get out of this we trying to get free so when the investigators left Vicky had C like for the night Vicky had called Rich and asked if they were still downstairs and they weren't so she had like heard the downstairs patio door open nothing was stolen no equipment was touched and Rob had found the door was open so they checked to see if the mic picked up any sound there was sound they could hear rattling metal they didn't know what it was though so they tested all the doors and there were two possible options the door at the top of the stairs or the door of the wine cabinet both were lock locked but Vicki was sure she had heard the Pao door but the noise sounded different on the recording so Brian had told them that Spirits would start to make their presence known during the investigation and this may have been one of those moments now Tony I want to talk about Tony Tony was actually the lover of herb right even knowing possibly that he was a killer he has this like weird playful tone when he talks about quote unquote Brian CU he refers to him as Brian he doesn't refer to him as herb because he doesn't know him as herb he knows him as Brian he says this [ __ ] quote robs like to call this the bar now but back in the day herb called this the kitchenette huh he said I can stand I can still see him standing there mixing Janks and things like that it looks quite different now for starters is missing a lot of mannequins jokes jokes I get it Gallows humor jokes though um sir you were in love with a murderer when talking about herb Tony said that herb was two different people killer of course but the other one was kind and he called him Brian and when shown the weird like herbmeister VI herb [Laughter] Meister sorry y'all when shown the weird bow Meister video which I'm going to put that in the in actually I'm going put a little clip in there for you so you can hear it when shown the weird bow Meister video which there's a bow Meister video I'm going to explain it to you real quick so you can Google it I'm actually going to link it herb bow Meister had been caught up on news camera being interviewed um because apparently there was a there was Ro kill on the road next to Fox Hollow Farms and the uh Street painters the people that paint the line the lines the lane the lane lines they painted over the road kale they didn't even kick it out the way they didn't move it um that's an opportunity to see her bow Meister in action so if you were curious There's an opportunity to see him speak um what I also noticed and hey I don't know maybe it's cuz I know he was into it his neck is mad crepy he has eczema he had eczema real bad eczema on his neck and I wonder if it had anything to do with the asphixiation probably sip so they showed Tony that weird ass herb Meister oh whatever weird herb they turn they Britney relax you you know you got to pee just relax they showed Tony the her bow Meister video he said quote he's trying to cause trouble for somebody like matter of fact I'mma play it right now the Indiana Department transportation maintains over 11,000 miles of roadway and we paint those miles of roadway each year and this is just an isolated incident that happened the drive by striping whatever her B of caramel saw it all I said to my son they're going to hit that raccoon with a spray gun and sure enough they just striped right over its face and neck you know it didn't even move it you know no effort to you know get it out of the way so happened to have a Polaroid with me so I took a shot of the thing a raccoon which met its demise on the yellow line became one with the paint the raccoon has since been removed this is all that's left this was just you know the painter should had a chalk light drawn around his career by state officials there was no excuse for that I mean the poor thing to deserve a better Faith than that so just what is the explanation for this so he says he's trying to cause trouble for somebody like that painter to get him fired that was Tony's verdict quote he knew the game was up at that point he was fully aware that he didn't have much longer left he was tired of life and his only real concern was his children you see herb was Dem ically possessed and that is what drove him to do the terrible things that he did it took control of him that's one of the things he separated from uh that separated him from the herb aspect of his personality it's Tony's belief that herb bow Meister was demon possessed herb was not an overly aggressive person and he never wanted con confrontation which I find hard to believe and when he met Brian he immedi he his he intentionally tried to pH physically dominate him to get him to understand that he could o be overtaken if need be because Tony was 65 Tony's a big dude so then Tony tells this very interesting story of one of his trips to Fox Hollow Farm he arrives and Herb Parks the car like on this weird wedge is like into a divot the car angles up and the headlights illuminate the apartment Window above the garage as if he was trying to signal to someone in the apartment so Tony believes that someone was waiting in that apartment possibly an accomplice when herb figured out no one was there herb freaked out and started slamming His Hands on the stering Wheel screaming you can't depend on anyone anymore yo that's [ __ ] weird could you imagine pulling up you you're like I just got on hinge y'all that dating app could you imagine having a date and you're like you pull up to homie like situation even though I would get in anybody else's car like I'm taking my car I ain't going that's just it my car is probably better anyway um could you imagine pulling up to somebody's [ __ ] and they do that you're like first of all why you just beating the steering wheel mad like this you can't depend on anybody anymore what the [ __ ] you talking about he said Tony said that he came close multiple times to killing him they did some coke herb almost shot him what this isn't even a party no more you you almost shot me now Tony did claim to have seen shadow figures that warned him to stay away from like the the changing room one time that they were at like Herb's apart or Herb's house that the area was like attempting like herb kept was he herb kept trying to like lure him into this particular area and Tony said that he kept seeing shadow figures at that time um warning him to stay away from the changing area but my thing was is like why keep going back then what's what I just don't know what Tony's situation is like what's your situation like you fell in love with this dude who's clearly like oh you fell in love with one of these this dude's personality like this this one of his personalities but you know it's one of his personality I guess we all do that never mind never mind I'mma shut up if you know you know now but still why keep coming back it's like where you the friend of the victim or not so so that night and in part one I mentioned that herb fell asleep he got high fell asleep in this book I don't know if this is two separate incidences or if it's the same in instance but there was a night where Tony drugged herb until he passed out but it wasn't even like drug herb like Bill Cosby drug herb he had basically given him like some really strong ass weed that like after they had done a bunch of coke and I I I'm assuming they had [ __ ] and strangled each other and done a bunch of coke you know that would make a person sleepy I I don't mean to laugh just this a nervous chuckle cuz I got to pee but also I'm assuming you do a little Coke you do a little blow you get choked you have some sex you probably going to fall asleep does I mean I'm assuming never happened to me but I'm assuming so he saw a shadow figure you know he kept seeing these like shadow figures that were like kind of leading him into the right path instead of like putting him in a position to of putting putting him into positions of danger and this changing room was a big one so he drugged him until he passed out so he searched the house for he and he blatantly said for items to steal like he had a different life back then he was looking for [ __ ] to steal and that's when he saw a shadow figure that was like leading him away from the changing room so you know Tony had just decided at that point like I can't [ __ ] with that room and one of the investig ators had even had an experience where they could hear an entire conversation from outside of the door while they were on the toilet cuz I'm assuming the changing room had a bathroom I mean I'm assuming it's a bathroom um but there was no one there and when Tony finally got into the changing room he witnessed that the locks on the lockers would like just started moving up up up and down up and down and then he hears this like long loud like boom boom and just screams and just like what the [ __ ] he thought it was a he thought it was a right and he said whenever he wanted to talk to Herb Spirit he just go back to that room which I'm kind of weirded out by how much he's in love with her but you know to each his own you know part of me is just kind of like the fact that he felt so comfortable having these kind kind of conversations with you you know what I mean like there was a not there was a lot that you know so anyway the staircase was also apparently haunted Tony uh Tony claimed to see Shadow People lining the staircases he said that the hands would come out and they would try to grab them that's a bit much but whatever the Shadow People thing is kind of weird so meanwhile Tony's like Reminiscing on things that him and Herb used to do and like things that herb would use to choke him one time and he says quote stop you stop stopping outside of the pump room he indicated the length of the the hose that was hanging on the wall the same one that had been used to make so many innocent Li to take so many innocent lives herb didn't restrict himself to the hose however this is what Tony said he also liked to use a knotted silk tie which is extremely difficult to get out of once it's tightened around the neck and quote he like to use leather belts too Tony revealed I can still hear the raspy Whispering voice as as he's had his hands locked around my throat so finally rich calls out Tony he's like quote after he failed to kill me on the first night I felt as though he was grooming me Tony explained I think he wanted to get rid of sounds like Joe and put me in his place instead it would be an impr apprenticeship if you like it was strange but even when he was holding me down and was choking me I never once felt afraid his voice would become ecstatic now Tony began to mimic him oh your eyes your eyes are bulging your tongue is beginning to stick out Tony believed it was all a game and was like heavy into role playing after a period of floating face down in the water simulating death herb would come up W would come flying up out of the water figing outrage oh don't you know that that's how Happ accidents happened the killer would say you could have killed me you should be more careful it was just a game to him this is what Tony is saying Tony then proceeds to tell them that her was never physically abusive towards him he was just he he had just told the FBI that to get them to investigate the missing boys and then he looks up in the air as if he's talking to Herb in heaven or some [ __ ] and he goes quote now my love if you're listening to me you know why I said those things I had to stop it the deaths had to end I don't trust Tony they don't smell right it don't smell right I don't like it I don't like it sorry I had to get some water I don't like it now Tony has started to also speak to another Spirit by the name of Albert Tony said that he was lesser known victim he had paid for sex and when herb tried to strangle him Albert attacked him but then herb grabbed his gun and shot him in the stomach he ran away to the pump room he bled out and Tony is the only person to ever mentioned Albert so there's that now Tony's advice was to keep positivity up to draw lighter Spirits towards them and if they focus on negative energy they draw out the things that pretend were that was pretending to be her so it's clear that herb was two people in many ways I mean according to Tony herb would go between Brian and Herb like a switch went off Tony also mentions that slj was the one that caused Brian to kill himself he was also evil incarnate uh Tony claims that Brian was always afraid of him his theory is that slj is a real person his accomplice is now dead like Tony feared saying his name because he was afraid he'd summon him Tony believes this [ __ ] you know like Tony believes this [ __ ] that's the thing like whether I believe it or not it seems as though Tony kind of believes it he does believe too that several women were murdered Now Rich Estep says this is the first time that there had ever been any mention of women I mean now mind you women were murdered because women were murdered remember and in the first episode whatever you'll find that out if you listen to it but at Fox Hollow we don't know of women being murdered at Fox Hollow um but they're not bound to the home you know they they are able to come in and out and to visit I don't know what that means he believes there is one demonic entity there and that's the Frog and he believes it predated the bow Meister so it's a trickster and it may have just used herb I don't know if he's like if he's in this weird way trying to clear her because he liked him he really cared for him you know what I mean and I don't know if he's just like you know her wasn't a good guy he he wasn't a bad guy he was just possessed I feel like in a lot of ways he's kind of just making excuses for him so when Rich asks Tony if he thinks herb feels sorry sorry for what he did Tony says he does and he felt remorseful remorseful even when he was alive the man was so tormented by what he was doing the things he could not stop doing he wanted so badly to get out from under all of sorry hat to belch he wanted so badly to get out from under all of that while he was alive to spend his life with his children he couldn't stop himself Tony how you know how you know and right before he leaves Tony feels the need to address the fact that he's not a killer like people think he is Rich then asked Tony if he misses the days with herb Tony didn't miss them but he did enjoy being back at the farm the truth is without Tony we would not have had this like we wouldn't really know who well we would know who her by Bow Meister was eventually because eventually he would have got caught but Tony did do a lot of work to make sure that her bow Meister didn't kill again in way um he truly believes his stories I mean but there's no way to confirm or deny any of them so he the his other belief is that now that the place is just Angelic you know they have so many visitors that come to pray and you know kind of help the spirits move along the house is still haunted but it's not as active and is growing more and more dormant so the fox you know Fox Hollow Farms is definitely they still get some activity here and there but it's not as crazy as it was before I don't know why I'm not an investigator I'm just a drunk person that read a couple books and watched a couple documentaries that's all I know with that being said that is the hauntings of Fox Hollow Farm now I don't have a lot to follow that up with I think that the Tony situation is weird I think that the Tony situation is probably the weirdest part about all of this because you're probably like Britney there's ghosts there's demons there's portals sure but you know the Tony thing is strange because I think Rich ask an appropriate question why are you so comfortable with all this [ __ ] why was this why did this not bother you in real time I'm not going to blame anything on Tony of course not you know I know Tony believes that he was groomed in a way he was trying to groom him or that he had like a really solid evid uh relationship with Tony I mean with with herb but you know herb was mentally [ __ ] ill he was mentally ill you know he I mean if you want to call that demon possessed sure but we know that he was mentally ill so how y'all feeling I hope you enjoyed this episode this is my first one that has been based on a haunting and I hope I gave you all the information you need and I hope this makes sense when I listen to it right now cuz I definitely got to pee so this is I swear to drunk I'm not God I hope you enjoyed your Cosmopolitan I hope you enjoyed the haunting of Fox Hollow Farm and I want to just make sure that you um you understand that we are here for not just the [ __ ] who did this terrible [ __ ] to these people but also for the victims and I really hope that with all of the new DNA technology and the the genealogical databases that they're able to really really nail down who all herb the psycho bow Meister killed all right now well let's talk about this I need more time to research I'm going be 100% honest with y'all I'm a one I'm a one woman [ __ ] show over here so um I think after December I'm going to go from every week to every other week because you know work life balance I'm still working through some some things personally and then I'm like working actively uh you know to be able to afford to do this and um I need time to research cuz you know it it it takes a minute and I want to not even that I want to be thorough because I don't really care about that this is more an opinion-based podcast than a one that's oh let me give you all the facts so we can research it and discover [ __ ] no I don't know I'm not a cop look okay um but I do want to say thank you for those who have listened up until this point so I'm thinking that after December I'm going to go to every other week just so I can kind of like give myself time to prepare the episode prepare the social media [ __ ] you know I'm not trying to be famous off this [ __ ] so I don't really care it's a hobby but I don't want it to start feeling like a job you know I don't want it to start feeling like a burden so I have to create some boundaries somewhere especially until I get like if if I get to a point where I actually need like help help but since I'm doing it by my myself I got to pce myself so um I'm going to I got a case that I'm working on that I'm going to definitely present to you next week and then I'll probably keep presenting cases up until about Christmas and then I'll do one for the new year so that the 29th is I'll do one on the 29th that's so the 29th will be my last like weekly one and then come January I'll start doing it every other week so I'll do the January 12th the January 26th you know that type of [ __ ] I can't do every week I hate I'm sorry and two I'm not going to lie I'm trying to I got I got to make sure I'm maintaining this girl as figure and I can't drink as much as I used to I'm getting old so um but I appreciate you all so much and thank you so much for anybody who's listening to this I actually I look at this stuff all the time anyway and um I'm happy that I have other people to share some of this information with so this has been I swear to drunk I'm not God and I will talk to y'all next week all right bye peace oh [Music]