winning and you have won a lot in life in uh real estate in business in TV in politics so let me start with a mindset a psychology question what drives you more the love of winning or the hate of losing maybe equally maybe both I don't like losing and I do like winning I've never thought of it as to which is more of a driving force you've been close with a lot of the greats in sport uh you think about Tiger Woods Muhammad Ali you have people like uh Michael Jordan who I think hate losing more than anybody so what do you learn from those guys well they do have something different you know the great Champions have something very different like the sports champions and you know you have champions in other fields but you see it more readily in sports you see it over a weekend or you see it during a game and you see that certain people will stand out and they keep uh they keep standing out but it's there for you it doesn't take a lifetime to find out that somebody was a winner or a loser and so the sports thing is very interesting but you know I play golf with different people and uh you have there's a different mindset among Champions there's really a very different mindset there's a different uh there's a different thought process you know talent-wise sometimes you can't tell the the difference in talent but at the end of a weekend they seem to win and it's very interesting uh like as an example tiger or Jack Nicholas he was a phenomenal winner and he does have a different way about him and tiger has a different way about him and Michael Jordan and there's never one you would think that there'd be one way Arnold Palmer was the nicest guy you'd ever meet and then you have some Champions that aren't really nice they're just focused on doing their job uh so you have you know there's not one type of person but the one thing I I would say that everybody seems to have in common is they're very driven they're driven like Beyond they don't seem to give up e