but you to make I want to make sure gradu last in your class first in your class listen you agreed with Bernie Sanders to the idea there is no Manifesto number one Mr Number Two he just lost the left vote and let your Senators know how strong you feel let vote now make sure you in fact let people know you're Senator I'm not going to answer the question why would you answer that question a lot of new Supreme Court Justice radical left listen now that one might explain why the Harris campaign didn't exactly want the microphones muted and just like Trump we've also seen KL Harris debate before we have an idea of how she handles her opponents like with this simple yet pretty effective line during the vice presidential debate in 2020 but Susan I this is important and I want to Mr Vice President I'm speaking I'm speaking Yeah I think that moment tells us she is not going to take any you know what but here's the thing Mike Pence is not Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is not KL Harris so we may know the players here but this game tomorrow night is going to be completely different we do know a few things that kamla Harris will have studied her policy positions she will have gone through that breathing binder with highlighters and posted notes and all the things she will have her opening closing and messy lines down pat she will have practiced her new attack lines she'll be ready it's who she is we also know the Trump prepares a little differently shall we say he likely will not have practiced new attack lines necessarily because he's been using the same ones for years he's probably not reviewing big binders of policy because he isn't exactly a disciplined policy guy but he still will be ready because this debate is important for both of them so given all of that there are a few things that are most interesting to me right now on the eve of this debate what does the always very prepared KLA Harris do when something unexpected happen how does she handle that moment and for Donald Trump can he keep us cool can he avoid attacks that come off as nasty and mean and literally avoid saying nasty and mean things I won't be holding my breath for that one necessarily but we'll see but I'll also be watching for how Harris uses this debate to introduce herself to the 29% of likely voters who say they still need more information about her that's a huge opportunity but also means she can't just attack Trump the whole time that same poll showed that 60% of like likely voters want a major change for Harris that also means finding a way to walk the tricky line of embracing the success of the Biden Harris Administration she was very much a part of while also sending a message she will build on that in a different way that's tricky and for Trump not even sure how that guy presents himself as the candidate representing actual good good change for the country but he's sure as hell is going to try those are just a few of the big interesting questions heading into this high stakes debate tomorrow night but with these two candidates meeting for the first time face to face we should be prepared for just about anything I have a few people to talk with about this who know a lot Kevin Madden was a senior adviser toit Romney who has been involved in many debate preps Neil Cel is former acting us solicitor general and helped Al Gore prepare his for his presidential debates we'll get to them in just a moment first I want to bring go right to Steve Kaki at the big board we love the big board Steve first of all I want to ask you where does the race stand now and how do some of the numbers you're seeing in recent polls how could it shape how the candidates approach tomorrow night uh yeah J well take a look at this a couple ways here first the big picture zoom out nationally this is our average of all the major national polls that are out there right now 4745 Harris with an advantage of two over Trump couple things to say about this though first of all this average lead for Harris has actually ticked down a point in the last couple of days the most recent polling we've seen nationally a New York Times poll you were just talking about there that had Trump slightly ahead a Pew poll today that had the race tied they've actually gone in Trump's favor to bring this average down to two points here also for Donald Trump at this point in the campaign coming out of Labor Day heading into that final stretch for the general election look this is the third straight time he's been the Republican nominee for president the last two times he was down much worse than this nationally at this point in the campaign and for Democrats look this is an improvement from where things were for them when Joe Biden was the candidate Biden had been trailing Trump in the National polling average pretty much through the year that's obviously been reversed at least where it stands right now but what might be a little concerning for Democrats when they look at that is Harris had a pretty big head of steam when she first got into the race those first few weeks leading into the Democratic Convention that put her ahead of trump since then no further progress and as I say for her actually a tightening now in the last couple days in the National numbers and speaking of tight you take a look here these are our averages from what we're calling the seven core Battleground States here and you could just see look you do see Harris blue here in four of these Trump red in two but I think the bigger thing that you see is just how close these average margins are you know half a point 1.7 1.5 in outright tie so you're talking about extremely close races almost across the board in these Battleground States you do see a bit of an exception here in Wisconsin where Harris on average is leading in our average at least by a little bit more than four points and that gets to one of the cautionary notes just for all of the polling that comes out and really heading into the election the possibility that the polls might be off again as we saw certainly in 2020 and in 2016 and a thing to remember about those polling misses especially in 2020 is they were not evenly spread out across all of the Battleground States they were geographically and demographically specific you saw them most dramatically in Wisconsin also in Michigan to some extent Pennsylvania you saw them in places with large populations of white voters without fouryear degrees that's become a very Republican constituency even more so in the age of trump and we saw that in 2020 in particular you may remember there were double digigit leads for Joe Biden and Wisconsin polling weeks before the election ended up being a 20,000 vote margin simply put Trump's support with uh White voters with without a four-year degree was deeper in Wisconsin and where than the polls were picking up on and the turnout level and the interest among those voters was higher so it just added up to much closer races in those States and wins for Trump in those States in 2016 so certainly worth considering as we get Battleground polling in the coming weeks heading into election day and then you mention this Jen just in terms of stakes for that debate tomorrow night you put this number up here from this new New York time Sienna National poll again a poll that did put Trump slightly ahead nationally 28% a little bit better than one in four of respondents in this poll saying they still would need to learn more about Harris the number for Trump there you know basically a third of that in single digs Trump much more of a known commodity but as you mentioned as well at the end there the opportunity is there for Harris potentially with that number here's the real challenge for her the question of change versus status quo you know Harris is the in incumbent vice president in an unpopular Administration and in this poll when they ask voters you know does Harris represent major change only a quarter of Voters said she represents major change a majority 55% say she's more of the same meanwhile Donald Trump out of office now four years as the president a majority in this poll say that he represents major change so when you know the Harris folks look at that number and say voters want to know more this seems like an area she wants to try to position herself if she can it's a question can she tomorrow night make herself a candidate of changed there's skepticism here clearly 90 minute debate you can't get it all done but a lot on her plate Steve Kaki thank you so much thank you for being with us with the big board always great to see you all right let me bring it to you Kevin I mean you've prepped candidates for debates Lots has changed Lots has changed since since your boss Mitt Romney at the time kicked the butt of my boss at the time Barack Obama but you always have a goal going into these debates the Harris team is looking at TH those polls they know that's an opportunity nearly 30% of Voters they know they want to be the change candidate what's her goal going into a night like this and what's Trump's goal yeah well I think first of all um the you're right I mean looking back at the 2012 debates 2008 debates it's almost like watching like silent era film right so much has changed now but and white yeah and and also the the debate Dynamics have changed I think but the goal for Harris has to be that you know she got a little bit of a sugar high here in over the last 60 days people were really we we we see all this like pent up demand for like somebody not named Trump somebody not named Biden to come into the race so she's got an opportunity here now with these voters to fill in the gaps of what their information flow on her is um and if you look at the issues that are really going to decide this debate the economy overall the inflation housing cost of child care those are issues where she has to take an opportunity to say here's what I'm going to do to chart a better course for the country on those big issues um ultimately these debate these elections come down to sort of fundamental questions does this person understand the problems of people like me and do they have a plan for the future tonight or tomorrow night's debate is that one big possibly last opportunity to really fill in the blanks for a lot of those voters who you know to for the most part she's still a little bit of an empty vessel yeah I mean people are looking and they want to know more which is a a good opportunity but it's hard to do in a 90-minute debate we'll see um Neil let me ask you I mean people know you as a supreme court expert of course and one of their favorite Legal Eagles but you were also a champion debater people should know and you prepped helped prep Gore so let me ask you because Harris is she's a prosecutor obviously she's a background as a prosecutor she's very prepared she's very um thorough in her preparation that can be an opportunity but you also have to be agile in these moments so how do you think looking at her background what are you watching for and what do you think her background in a prosecutor as a prosecutor will help her do and what might be a hindrance tomorrow night well Jen you know know Trump's record against prosecutors is 0 and 34 and I suspect tomorrow is going to make it 0 and 35 I mean I think the first you know thing to note is that this debate starts with in many ways a comparative advantage for Trump it's going to take place in an empty Auditorium that's obviously a very familiar place to him these days unlike Harris um but I think it's going to be uh a little hard for for Harris and the reason for that is as a prosecutor you know you focus on facts and you know I remember in high school and college debate the hardest thing to debate is someone who doesn't believe in facts who has no respect for the truth and every time Trump speaks it's like the facts go on vacation and so Harris has to fact check him like it's a contact sport and this is where I think for her the goal is it's not just about Trump but it's with the moderators you know look I I know you're going to have down on in a moment and I have a lot of respect for anyone who volunteers for that role but the fact is the moderators often let Donald Trump Slide by with lie after lie they don't ask the hard questions like Trump called for Mass arrests over the weekend and you know what's is that going to come up it typically doesn't those kinds of things don't come up in debates so I want the vice president to turn to the moderators and look at them and say why are you asking why aren't you asking these questions why are you letting him get away with us it's not just about Trump it's about the moderators and how she comes off at the end it's really it's an interesting point it is very tricky because part of this is also for people at home who don't know a lot about you to think you're tough but also really likable which I hate that word but it is true as a candidate running for president yeah so if you're Harris to Neil's point do you fact check do you skip it over do are you selective about it I mean what what do you do in that those well look I think I I agree with some of Neil's points but I think the most important thing you have to remember is that you're talking to the people back home or at home who have yet to make up their mind and I don't think they're going to be judging this debase performance on whether or not you're sort of parrying the moderator of responsibility against Donald Trump I think if I were to have two points and two attributes that I'd have attached to every single answer if I were KLA Harris it would be personalized and localized tell stories about through the lens of people's personal experience about how they're dealing with Rising costs how they're dealing with child care talk about that and then localize it talk about it through the lens of you know this as Steve coraki pointed out earlier this is coming down to Pennsylvania Wisconsin uh the suburbs of States Phoenix right so tell us tell the story of what you're going to do through the experiences of those swing voters that are out there saying I have yet to make up their mind help make up their mind for them by by really the most important thing forget about likability it's important but relatability they want relatability is a better word they want to know that this person understands the problems of people like me and if you can do that in the debate that's you know if you can achieve that you've achieved your goal no question you want people to think I'm fighting for you the other guys isn't fighting for you Kevin Madden NE Cel thank you so much excellent Debaters debate Preppers uh coming up Dana Bash who did moderate the last presidential debate she's going to join me live here in studio she has a new book that's just come out but first Donald Trump is once again threatening to imprison his opponents if he will