S04E13: UPDATES IN THE IDAHO STUDENTS MURDER CASE

coming up on this episode of crime family this week we are going to return to a case that we first talked about a few months ago and that is the Idaho student murders on December 30th 2022 Brian Christopher cobber was arrested by the police at a home in Pennsylvania which was nearly 2500 mil from the crime scene in Moscow Idaho she opened the door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in Black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her yeah I I don't know if it seems like if he's a criminology student and he's super smart about the law then like I think I feel like crime 101 like don't leave your [ __ ] fingerprint at the scene but even if he was stalking one of them he could have just been like following one of them home in his car and then once they got in the house he would kind of leave or something like that's possible too [Music] [Music] hey everyone welcome back to crime family I'm your co-host AJ and I'm here with my two sisters Stephanie and Katie just like always and this week we are going to return into a case that we first talked about a few months ago and that is the Idaho student murders you may remember this case and uh just kind of brief overview so um in the early morning hours of November 13th 2022 in Moscow Idaho an unknown as salent murdered four University of Idaho students as they lay in bed in their off-campus home there were two surviving roommates who were not harmed and the police were called to the home around noon on November 13th and discovered the slain bodies of Zena kodo Ethan shapen meline Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalez and so we discussed this case earlier this season season 4 episode 6 and this case has been you know a media sensation there's been tons of people you know watching for updates in these mysterious and seemingly random murders and if you've been following the news at all I'm sure you've heard of this case and if you've been following the news even a little bit you probably know that there has been some massive updates in this case since we released our episode in November and so I'm assuming you guys have you been following the major updates for this case at all or do you guys know a bit about the the new developments yes I don't know a whole lot about the new updates but I have been reading some of the updates yeah um I know a few from maybe a few weeks back but there's anything more recent than that than I might not be aware of them okay yeah um so we actually posted on our social medias um during like during the holidays because that's when the major update happened so all three of us were actually like together in person when this development broke and then we posted it on our Instagram and everything like that but um so on December 30th there was an arrest in this case 28-year-old Brian koberger was arrested in his home in Pennsylvania and he was charged with four counts of first-degree murder and felony burglary so the question that was arising is what could have caused this young man to kill four University students in their beds as they slept and he went as far as stabbing them all multiple times with a fixed blade knife which has still never been recovered so those are kind of the questions that everyone's wondering when this the news broke of the arrest and there's been more information that's been slowly unfolding U most recently just you know in the past week or so and so I'm going to go over kind of the major developments since his arrest and sort of where the case stands now or where the trial stands now and kind of the major major pieces of information that we didn't know back in November when we released the initial episode like I said before on December 30th 2022 Brian Christopher cger was arrested by the police at a home in Pennsylvania which was nearly 2500 miles from the crime scene in Moscow Idaho it was essentially on the other side of the country and since the arrest some information about cobber has been released which leads to more questions and answers so Brian was a criminal justice PhD student at the University of Washington and this was a campus which was only about a 13-minute drive from Moscow Idaho so even though it's in a different state it is pretty close it's by the state line so it was really only a 13-minute drive from the town in Idaho where the where the victims were murdered and so at this time it's not known how he knew the victims or if he did know them at all but I myself have a hard time believing that it was random you know it seems like he kind of knew the layout of the house just based on the logistical information about the case um all of the information is alleged at this point and he has not been proven guilty in a court of law so I do want to just preface it with you know he is a suspect at this point he's not been convicted of anything even though he has some charges outstanding innocent until proven guilty and so there was a major Court affidavit that came out and was released to the Press right before one of his preliminary hearings and that's where the bulk of this information in the updates is going to come from is from that affidavit so um also just wanted to let you know know that a lot of this is coming straight from the source because I didn't really want to get into too much of sort of the speculative stuff um there's a lot of media Outlets out there that will kind of just bring on E quote unquote experts and give their expert opinions about certain things but I'm just going to um stick to the facts like Nancy Grace yeah yeah and like we we don't really need her commentary up in here so um I'll just stick to what we know for the most part I mean we're probably going to speculate of course but that's after I kind of give the rundown of the facts which I guess Nancy Grace is too but you know Nancy Grace sometimes she can be over the top so one of the major sort of developments that that came out from the release of the affidavit was that something that really kicked off the investigation that was actually discovered pretty much right away as soon as the police discovered the bodies and that is that the police found a tan colored knife sheath in the bedroom of one of the victims and quote the words Kar and USMC were stamped on the sheath along with the US Marine Corps insignia Authority said end quote and once the police found this they sent it for testing and then on the button snap of that knife sheath they found a fingerprint which matches the suspect Brian cobber and so that was obviously a huge significant development and one major thing that points to him also there were cell phone records that show that Brian was in the surrounding area of the house in the time directly before the murders but there was no cell data that was collected for the time of the murders or the hours after so it speculated that he either turned his phone off or it was on airplane mode for this portion of the night so when you kind of look at the time stamps there's cell phone activity in that area you know a little bit before and then you know it's turned back on or the cell phone activity returns after so I don't have the exact time stamps but there is a chunk of time that is not really accounted for and the police also discovered during their investigation that Brian cellphone indicates that he was in the area surrounding the house a total of 12 times in the months before the murders and almost all of them were in the overnight or early morning hours so you know I've watched some CNN videos and they're they're kind of discussing this and they say that is significant because you know the fact that he's in this area 12 times at least in the months leading up to so it's either kind of maybe points to the fact that he could have been you know stalking some of the victims or he was kind of eyeing this property or eyeing these students for a significant portion of time I believe the first time was in August of 2022 which would have been you know three months before the murder so that's kind of odd um and he did only I mean he did attend Washington State University which was only 13 minute drive from there the home but police have said that this is sort of kind of a dead end Road or or not a dead end Road but it's a very kind of quiet isolated home or road that like not many people would just happen to drive by so the fact that he's in this area like not one time but 12 times kind of leads to you know suspicion that he could have been or may have been eyeing these these students for a long time so these cell phone records plus the fingerprints that they found on the knife sheath that matched him were enough to place Brian near the scene and at the scene itself and kind of how it came about with the with the DNA on the knife sheath so they found that that knife sheath on the bed they obviously sent it for testing and got the DNA profile and then there was like sort of other events which I'll get into later that kind of LED them to Brian um but then once they kind of were eyeing Brian or they were putting him under surveillance they were able to test some trash that was recovered from Brian family's residence and test it against the DNA that was found on the knife sheath and results of this concluded that the DNA from the trash belonged to the father of the person whose DNA was on that knife sheath so according to the affidavit quote at least 99.998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father so that's how they were able to tie to him so I guess the DNA that they had matched his father and they said that it's most likely certain that it was his father and that's how they were kind of able to tie that to this DNA fingerprint so obviously these are huge significant updates and there's also the car that Brian was driving is also a note in this case because it was a his white hondai Elantra that was seen on surveillance footage in the area surrounding the victim's homes that surfaced in the weeks before Brian's arrest so I remember one of the updates you know in the few weeks after or early December to the media was that they released this kind of surveillance footage of this white hondai Elantra and they said that this is a significant to the case they didn't really releasee how or reveal how but they said this vehicle is significant to the case anyone who knows the owner of this vehicle or knows someone with a similar vehicle to please call it in to to the police and so on November 25th that's when the Moscow police kind of told all the surrounding law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for this hondai Elantra and this make and model of the car was spotted in the parking lot of a townhouse complex in pulman Washington shortly after and pulman Washington is where the university is that Brian attends so once they kind of found the similar Mak and model um that kind of matched the description from this uh video then they were able to kind of pull the records of the car and find out that it was registered to Brian and the police eventually got his driver's license information from this that's how they were able to initially put their eyes on Brian because he was the owner of this car that was thought to have been in the area of the murders and in this affidavit they also explain that there's very few Vehicles like I said that would go down this road during that time of night and because that was like one of the only vehicles that did and it was right around that time that's why it was a significant car so that's what they what first brought them to Brian and then like I said when they put him under surveillance they were able to kind of track his movements and they could pull some trash that he had discarded and that's when they pulled the DNA and kind of got all that DNA evidence together so it's a question about the DNA so did they already have Brian's father's DNA on file then like was he known to them or how did they already have his DNA well no because they matched the DNA that was left on the knife sheath and the DNA on the trash where St statistically like through the the programs that they have or like the software or whatever that they have was able to determine that those two fingerprints were from two related people oh I see they didn't track it back to his father but they knew that it was from his father I see now yeah so they knew yeah cuz they knew that that was the family home where they pulled the trash from like you know because they're watching him and so then they can pull the trash um because once once you dispose of trash it becomes like public property or like property of the Town R so the police are able to confiscated it and they tested it against that DNA on the knife sheath and they were like found to be these these two pieces of DNA are from related people okay all right yeah I got it now and this is obviously like stuff that we know now but obviously at the time they're keeping it very hush hush and there was a lot of like push back from the public because they were people saying that the police weren't doing enough but as you can see they really were doing a lot it's just obviously like I had said in the previous episode that there's a lot that happens right behind closed doors that's not really out there and known to people so like it doesn't I I thought people should have been a little bit easier on the police in this situation because obviously as we can see they were doing a lot that we just didn't know at the time so we have the cell phone data that is placing him near the scene of the crime months before the killings and then also on the night of the killings right before and after and we also have this fingerprint but even those two things aren't even the most incriminating or the most significant or scary parts of this I it was actually eyewitness testimony from the surviving roommates that came to light in the sa of David as well that really kind of of creeps me out um and it's kind of I'll I'll read a bit of the affidavit here but it's kind of what everyone's nightmares are made out of when you what this roommate witnessed so of course the two roommates they were interviewed by the police immediately after the bodies were found um and that's when they got this information initially so police knew this piece of information pretty much right away um and obviously this wasn't something they released to the public either and there was a lot of people that too that were kind of harsh on the two surviving roommates because and even we were saying you know how could you not hear anything you know it's pretty wild that there's two people in this house that were unharmed when the other four were murdered so it was very a lot of questions kind of surrounding that and also about the nature of the 911 call because we were like the police were responding to an unconscious person versus like four murdered people so it was just very suspicious but we do know a little bit more about like the the roommate at least one of the roommates sort of what happened the night that the murders were taking place so I'm going to read it directly from the affidavit here because I think it's just easiest to go right to the source so it's about a page and a half here so I'm going to read this section of the affidavit here the two roommates they go by the initials DM and bf in the affidavit so they're never named in Fall so when I say those initials those who it's referring to is the two roommates DM and bf both made statements during interviews that indicated the occupants of the King Road residents were at home by 2: a.m. and asleep or at least in their rooms by approximately 4:00 a.m. this is with the exception of kodal who received a door Dash order at The Residence at approximately 4:00 a.m. law enforcement identified the door Dash delivery driver who reported this information DM stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the Southeast side of the second floor DM stated that she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Gonzalez so that's Kaye playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms which were located on the third floor a short time later DM said she heard who she thought was gonzalvez say something to the effect of quote there's someone here end quote a review of Records obtained from a forensic download of kotal's phone showed that this could have been kodal as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the Tik Tok app at approximately 4 12 a.m. DM stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house DM stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from kotal's room DM then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of quote it's okay I'm going to help you end quote at approximately 47 a.m. a security camera located at 1112 King Road a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud a dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 a.m. the security camera is less than 50 ft from the West Wall of kot's bedroom DM stated she opened the door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in Black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her DM described the figure as 5' 11 in or taller male not very muscular but athletically built with bushy eyebrows the male walked past DM as she stood in a quote Frozen shock phase endot the male walked towards the back sliding glass door DM locked herself in her room after seeing the mail DM did not state that she recognized the male this leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene super creepy so this is would have been testimony that this roommate would have given to the police right away saying that she actually saw this figure walking towards her coming out of Zena's room and gave the description saying he had bushy eyebrows that he was 5' 10 so very very creepy and that would have happened just like like I was describing after 4:00 a.m. in the morning and as we know the 911 call was initially placed just before noon that same day so that would have been you know you know 8 hours later is when the anal one call was made so there was a lot of questions about why this roommate would have waited 8 hours after this to call 911 and we still don't know that information we're just going to comment on why she didn't call 911 right away cuz my first instinct I see this strange man in somebody's bedroom the first thing I'm going to do is call 911 like I don't know why she would have waited so long maybe I don't know I'm confused about that as well yeah it's that's something that's very questionable um you know I've been talking to well Lisa our other sister who's not on the podcast but I was talking to her and she says that if it was her you know she would be kind of just in a frozen State and like terrified for like hours and wouldn't be able to even like muster up the courage to even call 911 CU you just be so afraid so it is possible that she was just totally like in a completely different mindset because she was so scared I mean who knows but I mean obviously she I mean she didn't call 911 for almost 8 hours which seems like such a long time maybe she could have thought that her friend had brought this guy home for whatever reason and that he was now leaving so I don't know if that was like a thing that they commonly did but maybe she just kind of convinced herself that that friend knew this guy and now he was leaving I mean I guess I mean he was coming from Zena's room which Zena was in a Rel ship with Ethan who was also in the room and was murdered oh maybe not then yeah cuz it was Z and Ethan were like in one bedroom um on the second floor and then Kaye and Madison the other two victims were on the third floor in the same bedroom as well this roommate was on the second floor seeing him come out of Zena's room where he would have killed Ethan and Zena but I mean who knows okay yeah then I I can't think of an explanation about why it would take her so long I guess maybe if she was in shock and scared maybe she fell asleep and then then when she finally woke up it kind of like kicked in that something was wrong that's possible I guess um if she was like drinking and stuff maybe she wasn't thinking clearly so I mean there there are like maybe some explanations but it just seems super weird yeah it does seem super weird like you'd think your first instinct would be to call 911 right away when you see this masked person that would mean because I would be scared that he'd come after me like me next like you don't know who this person is right so yeah did he see her peeking out yeah like I'm assuming he didn't know that she was looking at him yeah well that's actually a little bit I'll get into a little bit later like kind of just like a theory like in one of the videos I saw there was like kind of a theory of like if he saw her if he didn't um so I can I mean I might as well I guess I could just talk about that out but some of them um because like CNN always will have like you know forensic experts and like criminology experts on their news shows to talk about this case and they kind of speculate or one of them actually speculates that they don't think that he would have seen her because if he because if you look at the the the layout of the the floor plan of that floor like just from the angle it's possible that like he wouldn't see her even though she but also if the door is open like just a barely a crack and she's just peeking out then he wouldn't even necessarily see that and also she makes the point too that if you know he would have probably wanted to get out of the house right away as soon as he killed Zena and Ethan like he's kind of just in his mind like trying to get to that glass sliding glass door as soon as he can to get out he's not going to be really looking around and if the do only open like a tiny crack then it is possible that he wouldn't have seen her because obviously if he saw her wouldn't he want to like then kill her because I mean as it turns out the sort of eyewitness testimony is kind of what a major thing that sort of led the police to him other than the the car but there's some identifying information in there that kind of helped build that case against him so I'm assuming that he wouldn't have seen her yeah it seems like he probably didn't know she was looking at him and so there's no other evidence that anyone else was involved because I remember early on one of the news reports that came out was what that when he was arrested he actually asked the police if he was the only one being arrested so it was kind of like asking if the other people involved had been caught as well sort of maybe yeah yeah I remember that was that was something he asked if anyone else had been arrested um in in in the case which is a weird thing to say so people were speculating was there multiple people like the only eyewitness or this roommate only said she saw one person so there was no sort of any eyewitness from the roommates that there was any other person but also too he was a PhD student studying criminology so people think that he is very smart when it comes to the criminal justice system and he was kind of just said that so that he could sort of start to plant his his seeds of doubt you know because then during trial it's kind of come out like oh what's the first thing he said oh well is someone else did you arrest anyone else kind of making it being like you know what I mean like people think that he was kind of trying to start say that just so that he could start building his sort of yeah I don't know if it seems like if he's a criminology student and he super smart about the law then like I think I feel like crime 101 like don't leave your [ __ ] fingerprint on the murder weapon at the scene like that seems pretty obvious but he did right so I don't know yeah it's it's it seems super weird because I mean they never found the actual murder weapon so the knife that was used was never actually recovered but the sheath of the knife was right yeah yeah and so yeah that does seem very like murder one-on-one like how stupid are you um so I don't know like yeah cuz I was going to ask you guys too what do you guys think of that because there was sort of early on it was like well he's a PhD student he was doing a thesis on well I mean also to some of like the Reddit forms and the Lin loose and kind of these other like sensationalist sort of things we'll talk about a little bit about what his thesis was about like he was something about he was studying sort of the mindset of of killers as they commit crimes or something so people were trying to suggest that maybe he was like doing this as part of his research for his study or for his paper or something which seems kind of faresh I don't know but like a part of me was thinking like he's very very like he's a very smart person so why would he leave his fingerprint on this on this knife sheath but a part of me was thinking like maybe did he want to get caught maybe like it was part of it like he kind of wanted to the notoriety I don't know you know what I mean I was like he's making these very obvious mistakes that even people who aren't PhD students of criminology know not to make so the fact that he was a PhD student and still did that seems very weird so maybe or he was just arrogant like maybe he was just incredibly arrogant and thought that he was one step above them or ahead of them yeah maybe he has a plan where he somehow thinks he can get out of it even though he's made all these mistakes he still thinks he's going to get out of it like maybe that was the whole thing all along that's farfetched to but you never know yeah and also this place is or this case is so early on so who knows what sort of things that they're going to try to come up with in the defense you know maybe he has some big elaborate story planned that will somehow get him out of it or you know that there was some other person involved um or something but it's just to me like that whole statement or section of the affidavit where it's talking about this eyewitness testimony from the roommate is terrifying to me because I feel like that's everyone's worst nightmares to wake up in the middle of the night and see a masked figure walking towards you in the dark like to me that's absolutely terrifying oh my God yeah so I couldn't even imagine um like what she was thinking at the time um there was also no information in the affidavit about like if the other roommate heard or saw anything because all of that was from that one one roommate DM so I'm not really sure about the other one but she probably I mean obviously she gave a statement but I don't really know if it was anything significant but it would have I guess it suggests to me which seems a little bit weird is because the layout of the house as I kind of outlined in the initial episode was that he entered the theory was that he entered and through the sliding glass door which would be consistent with this roommate saying that he left out that way but if he came in that way and that is in the back of the house which is already puts you on the second floor so once you enter through that door you're already on the second floor and so if he left right after leaving Zaya and Ethan's room then that means he would have killed them after he killed Kaye and Madison so it's like why did he go in there and then go up the stairs to kill those two first like did he know those two personally did he know Kaye personally and he was like she was really the Target and then the other two maybe heard something maybe because also you know Zena it's kind of I feel like it's relevant that Zena had that door Dash delivery right around that same time so you know maybe she was in her room she came out to get her door Dash and then saw something her heard something um and then also the the roommate was testifying that she heard someone that she thought was Kaylee say there's someone here but then it says in the affidavit that that could have been Zena because cell phone record showed that she was awake and on her phone at that time so you know she could have went to go get her her food and then saw something and then he had to kill her and Ethan because of that well was her food eaten at all like did she even have time to sit down and start eating or like could yeah maybe she did see him and then she didn't even have time to open her food is there anything about that yeah I don't think there's anything about that it just says like her door Dash delivery um was at approximately 400 a.m. and then all of this other stuff with the roommate talking or so she gets door dash at 4:00 a.m. then her phone records show that she's on Tik Tok at approximately 4:12 a.m. and then at 4:17 a.m. that's when that little part about the security camera that's located northwest of the house picked up the distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud and a dog barking because there was also kayle's dog that was found alive at the scene when the police arrived um and that starts at 4117 as well and so kind of happens in that sort of uh time frame and then also just this one piece too from the affidavit says the combination of DMS statements to law enforcement reviews of forensic downloads of records from BF and DM's phone and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe that the homicides occurred between 4: a.m. and 4:25 a.m. so she got her food at 4 and even if you give it the latest time frame at 425 so she she still would have had that 25 minutes interval in there to eat her food so it's just kind of weird how she would have had to get out of her room go get to her door Dash and then she heard something and then went back to her room and then he must have seen her or was afraid that they had heard something or something I don't really know like that those details yeah it kind of seems like it's creepy like maybe he was already in the house and then she got her door Dash so he knew that somebody was awake at that point and then he realized he would probably have to kill them too even if they weren't even if she wasn't like the actual Target so yeah it kind of does seem like that door Dash is significant for sure like in what happened to Zena yeah and so so just makes you think so like that piece of information CU I was always thinking too in the initial in the initial episode that we released and throughout I was thinking like what the order of the killings was like did he go in through the second floor kill Zena and Ethan first and then go upstairs and kill the other two and then leave or kind of what was the order but based on this eyewitness from the roommate seems like he went upstairs first to kill Kaye and Madison were they the real targets or was was Kaye the initial Target like maybe he knew her or knew of her so only had plan to kill her because Kaye and madis Madison were in the same were sleeping in the same bed that night so like maybe he went to go kill Kaye but then saw that they were both together and then realized he had to kill them both and then Zena heard something and then he had to kill them both so maybe it was just intended to kill one but then it ended up being four um just based on the events of what happened or like where they were sleeping or the things that they heard so and and now we do know too that the roommate did hear at least one of the roommates heard something right because because we were like how could you how could this happen and you wouldn't know you wouldn't hear anything but then based on all of the statements and stuff that we we now know that she did in fact hear something and the two and before we didn't know where they were sleeping cuz there was one vacant room in the apartment so now we know that they weren't both on the first floor it was one of them was on the second floor which is the same floor as Z's room and her some stuff so so yeah after they took this this statement from the roommate they then you know have this surveillance footage of this car that's in the area and they also find the knife sheath and then they link the car to Brian and upon search of the car when they find it the investigators noticed that the car had been cleaned thoroughly which is obviously kind of suspicious but nothing that can like that's No Smoking Gun of course and so that description that witness DM gave to the police was actually very similar to the information that was gleaned from Brian's driver's license after the police acquired the vehicle information of the white hondai Elantra that Bel that belong to him so once they were able to determine that that was his car that was registered to him they got they were able to pull his driver's license and they could see the photo of him and also his height and all of that stuff that you would have on a driver's license so that information was also similar to what this roommate said like the bushy eyebrows it could see the picture that he had bushy eyebrows and that he was 5'10 and all of that stuff so that also kind of lines up too so it turns out that this roommate seeing him actually ended up being quite significant in like kind of solidifying what this person looked like and Link putting it sort of together through that and also something too that's interesting is that when the police were kind of putting him under this 247 surveillance while they were because it's all happened within six weeks from the time that the murders happened to when he was arrested so somewhere in there after they kind of have him as a person of interest they witnessed Brian throwing garbage into neighbors the garbage bins as well in the overnight hours and this is kind of an odd thing um that might have some significance even if we don't know what that significance is you know maybe the murder weapons in there or something else um but it's kind of weird that you would go out in the middle of the night not just to throw out garbage but like throw it out into your neighbor's garbage bin and not yours so that was also something too that was sort of flagged by the police during all of this as well and so there are still so many questions in this case such as a motive and the nature of how briyan knew the victims if he did at all and there have been like I said many internet slues that are pouring over any bit of information they can get about this case and there's a lot of Internet salutes that are kind of going through both both his and the victim social media presence to try and discern a possible social media link between them so you know looking at things like Instagram pages and if they followed each other or if they if he maybe liked one of their pictures or their videos or something to kind of see like if he had been watching them for a while so a lot of that information hasn't really come out I did see I think it was on Tik Tok I did see one Tik tocker who kind of had a video of him going through so the Tik tocker like it's it's a screen um you know when you can like record your screen it's a screen record of him basically just showing us that Brian did follow some of them on social media or at least one of them on social media again I don't really want to go too much into sort of like that because that's just an internet sleuth you know injecting themselves into the case and trying to be relevant um so I don't know if he really did follow them or not but anyway police are going kind of through everything that there is to kind of go through and we'll see what comes up from that and so there was also talk like I said that Kaye could have had a stalker and at one point her family said no she didn't have a stalker because she was a very open person and she would have told us but then I suggested maybe she didn't know she had a stalk her maybe someone could have been stalking her she didn't know but then there was the an episode of 2020 that came out just a few days ago and I haven't been able to actually watch that episode yet because it's not out like on the internet yet and I didn't I don't have cable so I didn't watch it but there's um there was a clip from the preview of her father saying that yes she did say that she had a stalker which is a completely different story than he said A week after the murder so I don't really know where that lines up either so it's just very messy and there's still a lot of information out there that we don't really know so I don't really want to jump to too many conclusions but we do have quite a significant amount of information that we didn't have you know even a month ago or a couple weeks ago even after Brian cober's arrest on December 30th he waved his right to fight the extradition process so he was arrested like I said in Pennsylvania which is on the other side of the country from Idaho and so they were going to have to extradite him back to Idaho and he had the option to fight that and they would have had to go through a lot of logistical paperwork and all of the stuff to kind of do that he waved that right to fight the extradition process so he was just extradited pretty quickly back to Idaho and cger has appeared in court twice this month and the most recent was on January 12th so just a couple days ago from this recording and during this preliminary hearing they just kind of outlined what the charges were and it's just sort of the first step in the process and this wasn't really a preliminary hearing it was just kind of a meeting at the court um and his preliminary hearing is actually scheduled for June 26th now so we won't get any more information from Court until at least June so that's still five months away he waved his right to a speedy preliminary hearing so he could have had a preliminary hearing within 14 days because that's always the right your right to a speedy trial so he decided against that or his attorneys did so now his preliminary hearing isn't going to happen until June 26th so there's still going to be months and that's just a preliminary hearing so once that happens and there's still going to be you know months and years before we even get you know to the actual trial or we don't know if he's going to plead like maybe he'll plead guilty I somehow doubt it but maybe he'll plead guilty and then there won't be a trial so still lots of stuff that we don't know but this affidavit was very interesting and we're going to put a link to the full affidavit in the show notes it's 19 pages long um and I read all of it and it's pretty interesting but I just kind of picked out the most significant pieces of information there but go ahead and feel free to read all 19 pages of it because it is pretty interesting and um so that's kind of where the status of the case is right now um do you guys have any thoughts about any portion of these updates you know the car or the fingerprint or anything like that or the eyewitness did they ever say anything about that weird red stuff that was coming from the pipes yeah no nothing that I could see nothing that came out from that so that's still a mystery to me I mean I'm assuming it's probably blood and like I said that would have been right outside of Zena's bedroom whereas that stain was found but no update on that okay yeah so I'm definitely looking forward to kind of hearing his story and what the motive may have been because I don't at this point I don't think there's any doubt that it was him um at least him whether there's other people still not sure but yeah I really want to know kind of his relationship with them if he had any relationship with any of them so definitely going to follow this one yeah I'm I feel the same way as ktie like I want to know why he was at the house why he targeted um those people I just like this whole case to me is just so weird cuz like he didn't go to the same school as him and he wasn't even he wasn't even from Idaho so like to me to drive all the way there to kill these people and then drive all the way back it just seems really odd to me but like AJ said before like he was a PhD student so he is pretty smart so probably thought he could get away with it but you don't leave youna at a crime scene if you're if you're that smart but anyways yeah I'm definitely going to want to follow this one and see what happens it's some fortunately it's going to take a long time to see what does happen but definitely looking forward to the outcome of this yeah and I know and I know you said like he drove all the way there and then drove all the way back I mean it was only a 13-minute drive from his campus where he was living to Moscow Idaho so it's only 13 minutes so it's not like he went super far out of his way but it does seem like it was very kind of planned out and methodical because if he had been in that area 12 times in the months leading up to it it's kind of like he was scoping it out right like who knows maybe hey he had been in the house before like we don't know right like maybe he had cuz and all of the times that he was in that area was in the middle of the night or in the late evening so it's kind of like he was going there at around the same time and maybe he had went up to the back of the house to see if the door was unlocked like before and saw like oh it was unlocked and was kind of planning it out and plotting it out and maybe he had been in the house before and could and that's why he knew the layout of the house or knew that you know Kaye slept upstairs or something like that you know like who knows if this was his actual first time inside the house either oh that yeah that's creepy to think that he was kind of just like watching and seeing their routines and kind of stuff like that that's creepy but also yeah he could have been at cuz you said it was a party house before so he could have been at a party and just never really stood out so they never really you know paid much attention to him and that's kind of how he knew the layout and then he was kind of coming back and stuff like that so yeah yeah that's true and it was a a big party house um there's actually even there's body cam footage that got released from like the months before the murders where the police had responded to noise complaints coming from the house and they talked to Z outside one time and then they talked to to uh to Kaylee outside one time so I guess just to show that yeah there the police had been there before just with noise complaints and like loud parties and stuff so it was a party house so yeah it isn't weird to think that he could have just been attending the party and he might have had very brief contact so like the roommate like I said said in her statement the roommate that she saw him didn't say like oh I recognized him that's this person who's been at a party before you know so they never so because there's no indication of that like we don't think that he knew that roommate at least um so yeah he could have just been at one of their parties and was just not someone who stood out to even have them remember him or it could be like I said he had been going in the house or something before this like in the middle of the night cuz what was he doing those other times when he was in the area just driving up to the house looking at it going back like he was obviously eyeing that house for a while if he was in the area 12 times at least 12 times and like I said before the police were kind of saying that this is not really a it's not like a road that you have to drive by as a big part of the town to like get to the other parts it's like it's kind of out of the way from the rest of the place so it's kind of like a place like a road that you would really only come across if you're looking for it or if you live there so that cell phone Dad it didn't just show that he was like driving by it showed that he kind of stopped and was there for a little bit sometimes mhm well the police have just said that he cell phone data indicates that he was in the area at least 12 times in the months leading up to it and like there for like yeah so kind of makes it seem like he would I mean well even if he was stalking one of them he could have just been like following one of them home in his car and then when once they got in the house he would kind of leave or something like that's possible too just like watching them yeah that's true that's true and also there is in this affidavit 2 one of the so they actually did find another thing is that they did find sort of a bootprint inside the house as well during their initial or a shoe print inside the house as well um and then they also describe sort of the footage of this car um and I guess like I can kind of if you want me to read it I can it just kind of describes like cuz my question is how can they see this car but then they don't see anyone leaving the car you know what I mean like they don't say anything about oh there's this person captured on surveillance footage leaving the car and entering the home it's just like we see the car in this area but they never mention anything about a person leaving the car which obviously How Does It capture the car but not the person leaving it and going into the house you know what I mean like that's kind of weird hm yeah that is strange so that was also like my question because they're talking about like how if you read the Avid you'll see like once the car gets like in front of the house it tries to like do a three-point turn and turn around and it tries to pull in like they can see it kind of like trying to park and like do all of that stuff but then it never says anything about like seeing a person like a a tall person walking up to the back of the house you know what I mean cuz that I feel like would be significant and that wasn't in there cuz like they they describe say like at approximately so at 2:53 a.m. a white sedan which is consistent with the description of the white Elantra known as suspect vehicle 1 was observed traveling Southeast on Nevada Street in Pullman Washington towards sr270 sr270 connects PM Pullman Washington to Moscow Idaho this camera footage from pulman Washington was provided to the same FBI forensic examiner the forensics examiner identified the vehicle observed in pulman Washington as being a 2014 to 2016 hondai Contra at approximately 5:25 a.m. a white sedan which was consistent with the description of suspect vehicle 1 was observed on five cameras in pulman Washington and on swu campus cameras so that would have been at 5:25 a.m. which would have been an hour after they believe leave the murders take place the first V the first camera first recorded the white sedan was located at 1300 Johnson Road in pulman was observed traveling Northbound on Johnson Road so they kind of give a huge like uh detailed description of the movement of that car that night so it shows that he drove from Pullman Washington to Moscow was there for you know that that length of time and then his phone is turned back on later away from the house so it's like he did turn it off for that and they kind of track the vehicle through that in the affidavit they described that so it's very um just very odd how they like didn't capture him actually on camera if they captured the car in front of the house so that was just a little bit odd to me but definitely a strange crazy case um and we still have so many questions and we'll we still don't know his motive we don't know his relationship with any of these victims if he knew them if he didn't um if he didn't know them why did he choose them what was it about them was he doing this for some sort of sick twisted thing for his research study which seems kind of farfetched um so just very very odd but that's kind of where it stands now like I said all of this is alleged of course he hasn't been proven guilty in court yet so it's all just kind of alleged and he is just a suspect at this time so we'll continue to update you as the case continues and like I said his preliminary hearing is now scheduled for June 26 so we still have you know five months before we even get some more information but who knows what will come out before that you know from other people that they interview or something like that so still very interested to see where this case goes but it's also very sad too that it just seems so senseless and this person just if he is the one that did it it just seems so random and just I just can't understand it somebody 28 years old going for a PhD like has everything going for him seemingly so the fact that he would just kind of do this just seems just so bizarre and also I mean this is he was in Pennsylvania when they arrested him because his family lives in Pennsylvania and he had actually driven cross country with his father from Washington to Pennsylvania and there's also police k police body cam footage of Brian and his father in the car when they stop him like along that route because for something unrelated like I think I stopped him for like a broken tail light or something or tailgating or something like that and so there's body Camp footage of him and his father in the car um driving across country but he ended up in Pennsylvania and that's why he was in Pennsylvania was because his family lives there not because he was like on the run or anything even though he technically was but yeah so that's what we have for you for the update episod episode like I said follow us on all the social medias if you want to be up to date with the latest developments in this case there'll be lots more to come and of course we'll update you every step of the way as much as we can and yeah you can follow us on Instagram at crime family podcast we're on Twitter at crime family pod one and we're on Facebook at crime family podcast and you can send us an email at crime family podcast gmail.com send us your case suggestions or if you have theories about the out of home murder case or your thoughts um just let us know what you think you can always interact with us we'd love to hear your feedback and as always if you like the show and you want to follow us on patreon to be a patron you can find us on patreon.com Family podcast we'd love to have you and then you can also get our exclusive red bubble merch at the link in the show notes we'll put the link there and you can get all your crime family merch that you want from 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