Tim Ard's livestream

e e e e e e e for e [Music] [Music] for e hi everyone welcome to Thursday night saws this will be uh the last one in August of 2024 looks like and glad you all could make it and hopefully uh you'll enjoy the the topics tonight I have a looks like a couple signing in here see if we can get those guys in Let's see we got uh Chris Charles and uh looks like Jeremy ostein you guys can unmute and check in hey Chris how are you sir doing good can you hear me okay yes sir loud and clear very good very good and uh looks like Jeremy is on a on his iPhone I have to unmute there oh it's not Jeremy OST you're still muted an old hus employee used to work with David Breen and Brian Ellis you taught me what saw training at breeding Farm was one time I was just want to join in listen to you guys today oh great you're welcome to do it and uh I remember the face I think your last name Jeremy Williams Williams okay very good very good probably 2006 or seven we did that yeah it's been a little while been a minute yeah glad to have you look like you've been doing some hunting up there on the wall a little bit yeah yeah very good what are you doing now so I work uh still in the industry I work for Stanley Black & Decker um I went over to uh Hustler um to go to work with Wes Martin and then they and they were purchased by Black & Decker so been over here for about three years I guess but have been around in the industry for a little bit but um doing that and uh also have a Grounds Guys franchise that's starting up here in Oklahoma so um kind of getting on that side of the fence too so anyway very good what what town in Oklahoma uh Tulsa Tulsa good been there before hadn't been many places I hadn't been I guess Chris you're doing all right tonight yes sir I'm great at the house which is rare so good to be here you're at home I can't believe that yeah you working on some trees this week oh yeah we've got summer pruning to do for one of my good customers uh go do some pruning for her and a little stump grinding so super duper hey um I I've got uh uh the video here I think I'll I'll play real quick while we're just getting started up and let's talk a little bit about what you got going on in in December because it's it's never too early to get uh to get signed up on that let me see if I can uh if I can play this thing here in the W I'm going make my back cut and then I'm going to get 16 ft away [Music] it's a great class um I've really liked having all the experiential learning learning from others as well and talking everything through an excellent training for years I've used a chainsaw seated my pants good to to get uh professional [Music] training great class you need to take [Music] it this is exactly the kind of training I think we need is Storm [Music] responders it's really great [Music] [Music] it's been a great experience um really enjoyed the Hands-On aspect and the group learning aspect um really been put in situations where we can learn a lot but they're also not super high pressure uh so that we're able to work on refining some technique and and getting that experience awesome class it's one of those you only know or see you don't know what you don't know until you don't know now I know what I did know [Music] all right let's see if I can get this turned off here now well that doesn't seem to work does it well I don't know what happened to the other other side there let's see tell us a little bit about Chris what what's going going to take place where you going to hold it what are you going to be doing so we're going to have it out um I got 10 acres here nice Barn to do the training in I got some nice poppers and pine trees we can take down but it's going to be classroom and hands on three days lots of information but also just a good time uh I've never been through one of these trainings where we didn't have a blast um while we're learning so uh looking forward to it I tried to put it out there far enough where people have time to plan and um so you should have plenty of time to line everything up we're go to cover uh breakfast and lunch and we got free lodging which is pretty cool uh right here in Danville so uh come see me in Southern Virginia all right so that's going to be December the 12th through the 14th correct and uh Danville Virginia and you've got lodging and you're going to do breakfast and lunch yep and uh so it's a pretty good bargain there three days and 750 per person and if you need to know more details and things like that you can uh send an email to info@ Forest apps.com or send a comment put a comment here on one of the YouTube or Facebook sites and uh I will get back to you it's also available for registration off of our e store so so if you if you go to that last QR code it will put you to that or either go to for steps.com and you can sign in on the eore to register on that so looking pretty good Keith Willingham I see you kind of signed in there yeah good evening you in town this week or where you at yeah I'm taking a couple of days off trying to catch up from being gone for a while oh very good very good I saw some of the uh the things from Sudan looks like it was a quite an interesting place to be down there looks like some nice folks they have there so I was glad to hear you got back safely though and and all is going good but um on the the video that that I just showed um kind of just to go over all the the details on the on the program that Chris has has signed up and we're going to try to maybe get some set up on Mississippi for um late fall also and um I think uh I think uh hopefully we have something around Tupelo or something in that case but we'll see trying to look for a site there and um so we're we're trying to get those set up so plenty of time to to get registered on them what I've been um talking about we Keith and I talked Ted a good bit about it last week and we had had a unique uh thing we had uh Michael Kelly logged in and and Michael is a a um he's he's pretty high up actually with the emc's and one of the big emc's in Alabama and talking through some neat stuff and I put together some videos on that off the site if you haven't haven't seen it uh take a look at that some interesting things on on training my my focus U I had down for for last week is is looking at um the participants focus in other words what what do what do participants think about training uh what makes a good training program how do we keep people's interest those kinds of things we we talked about U some some things that Doug Puerto with cpal University had sent to me that was pretty cool uh looking at at some of those things and he had four points that he he had sent to me was kind kind of kind of interesting and then we we we took a look at um a little bit about new operator or or volunteer or you know storm type cleanup type stuff and um one of the one of the things that that always comes up is is looking at um experience you know and you know what what what level do we try to to get to and really you know experience is is the best teacher and as I always say sa and always said is that experien is the best teacher but you got remember was two different kinds and I came across a a thing that kind of reiterated that this week I don't know if you've ever heard of John Maxwell but John Maxwell is a pretty prominent business leader and in trainer and U he had a a thing he came up with shortly on one of his talks he said experience is not the best teacher it says evaluated experience is and I thought that was that was kind of cool you know we all of us have a a certain amount of experience especially with chainsaws you know and we we find all these different uh aspects of what it takes to be a good Sawyer and and how we've got to maintain safety to keep going at this thing but what you know it really boils down to is is that it's not just the amount of time that you have on the piece of equipment it's you know evaluating what that experience is and understanding what its positives and its limitations are I guess and so I thought that was kind of cool what what he said there and that he talks a lot about you know experience you know being uh important when it when it comes to working with other people around you or as a supervisor or whatever it might be so I thought that was that was pretty cool but he says you know it's not it's not the experience as much as it is the evaluated experience when you recognize what that experience is and and how it how it can work with you and we talked about you know some if you if you were to start a a a tree care business a little bit last week and um you know what what are some of the uh equipment training requirements I came across a a video and I I I don't have it set up to play but it is kind of interesting you can look at it on you on Facebook and uh as a gentleman put a a video on there of his 7-year-old son and he had a an electric steel 220 and he said he couldn't get chaps for him because he's too small he had a hard hat on no hearing protection which you know he thought with the electric saw it wasn't that big of a deal but it can be but one thing I saw was how he was stanced and and you know he's cutting some small stuff he wanted to give him some experience but it's it's something to where where do you where do you draw the the line on that you know where do we where do we take and uh and think about the the process of of how that um works with us and um I don't know I was reading through some things with industry and and they say chainsaw operation should should be left to 18 years and above and that would be in a a business standpoint from osia standpoint or industry standard standpoint I I read some other uh things on on the net where had talked about minimum would probably be 16 years old and I think there's some of the operators manuals kind of reference the 16year old I don't know that it's as much the age as it is the the frame of the person that's going to be using the saw I think you have to be physically capable and large enough but definitely if if you're too small to have a pair of chaps of some type is probably a good idea to wait a couple years you know and you you can have some some nine and 10 year olds that are are big enough you know bigger big as me you know so it's it's something where it's not as much the age as it is really though thinking through um you know how how important it is to get training started whether it's it's a a child of yours or whether U you know you're starting a tree care business and you're trying to make sure that employees are trained with all the equipment up to a certain level and I think that's that's um something that a lot of people have different uh opinions on but if we if we don't train to a certain level we're not comfortable with that what what's going to happen is if there's an incident that takes place and you know I I I think that uh you know having his son there on that particular video was was kind of cute but when it really comes down to it uh if if somebody else that maybe didn't have his his skill level uh and and time that's been spent with the saw and another youngster wants to pick it up and uh maybe using a different saw or he may even get into a situation where you find a loaded limb there you're cutting into firewood you know that that could knock them off balance and and end up uh getting some leg Cuts or other things because of of no PPE or improper stance or or whatever so how do you how do you go about those things what are you guys thoughts as far as what what would make um um you know a level when it comes to to getting um equipment trained chainsaws especially if you if you're looking at a tree care crew or a logging crew what what would be the the criteria and Keith Keith talked about last week you know he' start off with the basics and then work his way through a a systematic program and I think that's that's an important thing to to Think Through and uh since you're here tonight Chris what what would be your your thoughts on it I know you you've talked about it a lot with working with the volunteers and things but you've also got a tree crew so how do you how do you check that that person or that crew is uh you know their focus on participation in in what you're asking them to do or telling them to do or their planning process when they get to something what's what's the important important factors there to me it's it's the basics you really got to start with the basics um are they are they do they have all their PPE are they starting the saws correctly um I can learn a lot in about three minutes when somebody has a chainsaw in their hand if they're drop starting and um you know attacking and not planning things out you know you can tell a lot this in those first few minutes does someone look do they check their saw over before they fire it up are they following uh OSHA standards and things when they're starting it when they're uh getting ready to cut are they looking at it which end of the tree they're starting on um all of that um and then you know just having somebody the the big difference for me with especially volunteers is you don't have to necessarily be skilled you have to be humble enough to take uh take advice and uh not know everything you know I get guys come all the time I've been cutting for 30 years you know well you may have been cutting wrong for 30 years you know what I mean having someone humble enough to listen and kind of follow protocol and do what you know the standards that's kind of what I would say the basics start with the basics and um have a good plan and follow the plan all the way through yeah I think I think that's um you know something that that we don't always always think about is is having those basics down like if you had if you had somebody new started with you in your tree crew or logging crew even though they may have you know 20 years experience in in working with another company or working in another part of the country or maybe just uh going from logging to tree care or Tree Care to logging or cutting firewood and then going to one of those businesses when you when you start to look when you go from one crew to another there's some differences there isn't there yeah in other words how how these people uh are expected to work uh what time are breaks what time is lunch you know what time you got to be there you know every job that you go into no matter whether chainsaws or not every job you go into is going to have some different criteria that you're you're kind of following and so it's it's so important to um to think about that is and I I I see that quite often with people's comments sometimes is they say well you know we're doing it this way you need to find somebody with experience and as I always say where do you find them at Idaho or something you know because if you don't have a a a base in your crew or your work area or your town you know where where do you find those people and in most cases you you've got to build them because even if they've got 10 years experience when they come to work for you you've got different types or brands of equipment you got you got different uh uh trees regionally you've got different terrains all this kind of stuff that that you have to uh to make sure that they're trained up to that level don't you yeah I think that's a that's a key there when we start to to look at it yeah communication is so important you know when as far as training volunteers when I'm doing a training for volunteers I say when I get out of the truck from Virginia Tim gets out of the truck from Georgia Joe gets out of the truck from westconsin we all need to be on the same page when we get out of the truck and we need to be speaking the same language so a lot of the stuff in the volunteer Parts when I'm training is communication and then how do we actually operate you know the tagging system the way you get the saws checked out if there's something wrong with a saw it's it's a whole lot more than just picking a saw up and start cutting yeah and and and then when you're dealing with several people in a crew or that that group of volunteers and maybe Keith you might throw something in on this I I wrote down to notes you know consider the work environment and how the company and our co-workers approach the work site you know because every every site is is different you may have somebody that says oh yeah I've worked in that hilly area before I've worked in that wet area before and then you got somebody else is not used to walking around in in the mud slipping and sliding you know so it's it's it's you know being able to think through that uh that um participants focus on the work side itself what do you think about that Keith yeah for sure I go Chris's um mentality regarding you know being you're you're breaking up Keith on same page so important and I mentioned this last week about oh sorry about that I'm on my thingss and and trying to come up with conventions where you're on the same page and everybody understands what what the goal is and you work together um as far as young volunteers go uh you know we we've always had a policy nobody under 18 could operate pieces of equipment but being in the industry for a long time I've seen many of 14-year-old uh skid steer and excavator operators that would put you know people who do it every day to shame I mean some people have great skill and uh cordination and and some people don't but uh you know that's kind of the exception not the norm and as far as what people do with their own children and how they bring them up um you know we all we can do is advocate for uh like like Chris said the basics and hope that uh as an industry we're we're fostering um you know good common sense and using using your head to to apply the the industry standards and and wear the safy equipment use safe practices and just try to encourage folks when it comes to General work sites though I I think it is uh just imperative that that you have um the the tools that are necessary and the people on the ground to to take care of whatever the job may be regardless as to whether it's work or volunteer yeah and know you know I guess um I got that wrong I I was thinking too about um well um how much how much time does it does it take for or how do you how do you figure I know you have to go a lot by your your your watching and and listening but how long do you think it takes uh for someone to be considered trained there what what do you think the the time cons commitment is I mean how long do you think it takes to go through the basics so that you you've got people in that crew that that works site that would be up to a level I think it depends on the person you have some people who just naturally learn well and you have some people that don't um I had a I have a volunteer I was doing our our three-day Storm Class and this guy drove a big F250 had a fuel tank in the back and every cutting made was Flawless and when I would talk through everything and we go to do it everything he did it was was like he'd been doing it his whole life I said man do you do tree work he said no I'm I'm a brain surgeon MH uh very intelligent man and um I'm thankful that he can make extremely precise Cuts I mean his hands if I told him I needed three quarters you could have measured every time um but just an extremely intelligent man learns very quickly I think when you get someone like that you could pretty much put them in any scenario and they would pick it up fast but then I have people that don't yeah I've noticed that a lot over the years that um you might have somebody in a in a class a workshop that you you know you know they've got some experience there their Saw's got a lot of time on it or whatever and or you follow them through the woods and you you see them dropping trees and and but then you you say have you ever tried this and you try to show them something new that somebody else new to them but that somebody has shown you and they're kind of like can't do it yeah and then I I see some people that come to the workshops that have just read a book or they have watched a video and and man they're they're acing it like crazy yeah you know so but I guess from my my standpoint is what what how long does it take to be considered trained that's that's up to what do we expect that level to be at yeah and then the time has to be dedicated uh you know to be able to get them up to that that level and we talked about last week you're going to have a group of people that has different uh you know experience levels so you've got some people are new some people have 20 years experience those kinds of things and that's hard to do in a in a group but you know it's the same thing if if you got a a a crew of six people uh in tree care or loging everybody has different operation levels I guess you'd say even though they might all be in experience of several years they they have different things that that they like to do right uh like like like some people love to cut like crazy but they don't like to sharpen you got other people that like love to sharpen but they really don't want to fa trees you know so you you've got you got those that if you're going to be in the business though you you got to learn a little bit of both but you got you got people because of how they focus as a participant in that that job um it it comes up you know varied and um so I I started looking at how much actual time is required to be qualified and or comfortable with the job task and I think if if you're looking at from a business standpoint that's what OSHA looks at isn't it and they may weigh that against an standards the industry standards or whatever but what they want to know is you know as a employer you know what have you done to make a safe working environment for your employees and so as you as you start looking at how much how much time have you have you spent is it going over a manual or a tailgate session um Michael said something last week he says in in our business which is you know putting up lines and and and uh Power Line constructions and stuff and rideway work is is that every every single job they do they are required to do a a safety briefing and so they have a form that more or less goes down through who's there what's the task for today what's the weather like what equipment is going to be used all this kind of stuff and you know I I guess I I talked to a lot of people say oh that's really crazy and a lot of it does kind of get penciled through but when it comes down to it it's created a safer workplace hasn't it and not necessarily as an operator out there in tree care or logging or firewood or anything but I I sit there and go through the checklist although as a pilot I I found that to be something you you don't forget stuff that way but if you've got the basics that we talk about in the program of Hazards lean Escape Hing size back cut and you're looking at all those things in that workplace environment uh that that's that really is a checklist isn't it but if you don't if you don't have that that checklist in your head pretty soon you start missing that well there's a Widowmaker up there there's you know a slippery slope over here I might slide down I've got steep terrain I've got a tree that comes out Hollow all that stuff kind of comes up so you know when we start to look at how much actual time is required you've got learning those Basics from a coworker or class or workshop and then you you have to have some time of experience to run into those things don't you and so some people if they're if they're working in a in a nice flat area of the country and and smaller trees you know they don't have the same considerations that somebody on a 40° slope in Pacific Northwest has you know with a larger diameter 180 ft tall so it's but it it's the basics are the same aren't they is that true or not definitely you mentioned uh or one of your guys you you mentioned a guy last week that was uh with the for service in North Carolina now he's retired to Florida um I don't remember his name but uh wag Bri Wagner I think so and I know a guy that worked with um the force service he he went through all the the levels of a sawer operator he also was a hot shot and a hell attack um firefighter so he really went around the block in his career and I I think a lot of times it comes down to what are those assessments um it's definitely going to take some time and and the same thing because like Chris said you you need to call um the same thing the same thing if you're if one person says yeah go cut that snag um well is it a snag is it a spar is it a you know the tree that's broken half off I mean there may be four trees in the distance over there and to each person they may consider a snag to be any one of those those four situations and so uh you know like Chris goes and tags them individually he can identify that specifically and um and so I think when it comes to that assessment and they're looking at those skill levels um that that makes a difference you know when when when we were writing the SOP for for Samaritan Pur training we we looked at phrases like proficiency competency amateur expert experience skill I mean there's all these these phrases you can throw out but ultimately it really does come down to is there some form of assessment and if you're calling a tree company up hold turkey looking for a job or maybe they've put an ad out then I would say probably nine out of ten times that tree company owner is going to quiz you and ask you and what they're looking for is that checklist like Hazard leans gate you know notch back cut U the the idea is to understand does this person know what a a single rope system is versus a double rope system do they understand what a collar cut is do they understand basic species in the area if they're coming from the Pacific Northwest and they come to the east coast uh we've got a lot more Hardwoods and a lot more deciduous trees that that they don't have um and so you you have to kind of go through that and I think with a a program like what Forest applications puts out it's very easy to understand okay does the person have the steps those basics in place or not because you can ask them and I think the people that the programs are put on for um those supervisors and and those um those folks who arrang the the programs I I think they can do the same thing they can say can you explain a reduced downtime approach for checking this saw over and doing a safety check on the saw and a working operation check on this saw and I I think uh you know I think programs like what Forest applications puts forward is uh you know key and it's vital for for understanding where people are if they if they've been through the program now how much of that can they duplicate mhm well that that's kind of what the you know the whole thing was with game of logging and even when we started aror Master 2 is thinking about five to seven Basics uh saurin had to five um you know we're talking about Brian Wagner Brian was a logger up in New England in New York and Vermont and up through there um he went through game of logging with John Adler and um then he he came down and started work working with the uh the North Carolina forestry association's um training for loggers in the area that they're an insurance carrier for lockers and then also they moved into Virginia so Brian has done many many many sessions but it's the same Basics there of of covering those five same things that we do today and and so that's that's the key of trying to figure out so if you have if you have somebody that comes from an area of the country that's gone through the basic same type of training uh which it basically follows the the ansy standards and oosha requirements and those kinds of things is that if you've got somebody that has gone through those types of things it's very easy to be able to know what level they're at very quickly isn't it but if you got somebody that that just goes out I'll show you you know and just starts cutting and in a lot of cases you've got a lot of people out there that just do that on a daily basis and they're they're very fortunate because they haven't been hurt seriously or killed but it's it's something that it's a dangerous business so that planning process is that checklist to keep us safe so that uh you know you can go back home at night you know to your family and that's that's the key I had a comment from Michael Thompson he said some people just need to be rake operators and limb pullers and I think I've heard Chris say that one before and he says Michael says Basics are the same we were talking about the you know looking at the the the differences there with getting up to a to a level and uh you know the the other thing I think is is kind of sometimes misconstrued and this is kind of the last one I was thinking about for tonight is does a certificate mean you're trained and capable what do you think about that Chris hm I never thought about that that's a that's an interesting question I would say no because I've when I was doing construction I had to go through all these classes for ocean I took a class on CPR because I had to for my work but I was 18 I didn't really care they gave me a certificate if someone was laying there dying you wouldn't have wanted me to be the one to have to bring them back but I had a certificate that said I could do it well I guess the the certificate is is to um give you the start isn't it yeah I was there I was there at that class or that Workshop yeah I learned a few things but but now that real challenge is to get that certificate to work now you had to put the experience with it don't you so you start applying those things things that that you learned I've said this many times you know I've had had friends and and all I I I didn't have the opportunity um it just didn't work out with my work schedule but I never I never really went to college although um you know I've got a lot of friends that that did and I've got a lot of friends that didn't I've got a lot of them that that got a degree and they're not doing what they got a degree in and then I've got other people that are making big bucks you know off of off of taking and and building their level up as they go and so to say that that that U certificate is is worth something and and it is something where a lot of times in big business they start looking oh yeah they went there they went there they did this but in in reality they still have to come back and check them to make sure they can add that page up right and so that's that's the real challenge that we have as a a trainer or a supervisor ER or a business owner especially with chainsaws and and woodwork is is that you know that that certificate gives you information to just start that process and and now that's what OSHA expects you to do too is they they you know they they have some different classes that they recommend and and for certain industries they they really push it hard in other words you know the 10 hour 30 hour whatever but it's it's something to where that gives you that criteria that they want you to know from a standpoint of safety for that workplace but then it it it it it comes down to that that owner of that operation and supervisors are the ones that really have to make sure that people that you hand the saw to is up to that level and so going back to you know a seven-year-old or a 50-year-old it it it doesn't really make any difference about everything else and you know we can talk about PPE and stuff that's an understanding of of taking care of your body as a professional you know because accidents or unplanned events as we always say so it's it's something where you you really have to think about that I don't care how long you've been doing it or how good you are if that accident happens that PPE is the cheapest Insurance you can get and so that's that's the key with that but then on the other hand is while you're using that you start honing your skills and to be able to come up with a level uh for your expertise your experience to be able to handle the job and work in that crew or that organization U safely and productively and you know it it always comes back to um does a certificate mean anything or the number of hours or years not really it comes back to what Basics you you have absorbed and you are are using that you're you're taking and uh and applying it to to day and that's how people stay safe and and be able to produce and and and make a make a comfortable living you know and so that's a that's kind of the the key for it and some of the I've got several other things going to talk about another three or four things next week but um you know I think that that kind of gives us some things to to think about and hopefully hopefully people do and we're going to talk a little bit next time about the supervisor responsibility and and then also um you know experience in a similar business and those kinds of things but uh you know I I I think you guys have have been through the the three-day programs extensively and now youve you've carried them out to the field some and you know you you start to look and they're not Tim hard techniques they're not all s and Ericson techniques or or anybody's techniques really it's all stuff that over time from presentation has keyed in on those factors that the industry requires as well as your safety requires because you know I have people all time say well you know you can't work and all this stuff I was reading reading articles this morning about uh all the Heat going across and I can't I can't wear chaps and I can't wear pants and and stuff like that doing out there working because is it's just too hot and it goes back to a story I had down in State College Texas I've told it I had one one class I did down there and couple months later it was getting on into July or August and temperatures run 115 118 Dees down there and the instructor that for that particular U not instructor but the supervisor for that particular group I was I was training he he sent me a message he said look I I'd ask a question can you call me and I called him he said look they're almost mutinous down here he said it's 115° and and they don't want to wear chaps you know like should I should I let them cut without it and I said well let me ask you a question would you bleed faster when it's real cold or when it's real hot and you know the the hotter you are I guess the blood flows a little bit thinner and quicker so is something where do you do you get rid of the PPE or do you take more breaks and I guess I I haven't had anybody complain about taking more breaks in a lot of cases but you know you got to drink the water or in that case maybe the salt tablets or whatever it might be or Gatorades or or whatever to keep your electrolytes and your your liquids up but it it's something to where if something happens you know that's what the pp takes care of hopefully or at least lessens an injury so it's it's it's something to where um you I've also run into stuff where people say well climbing I don't I don't wear it but if I'm on the ground you know I do and um I I see a lot of times to where come down out of a tree watching Cruis and come down out of a out of a tree and he didn't have the chaps on because he didn't wear them in the tree next thing you know they're picking up stuff and cleaning up on the ground and so then then what happens and I don't know how many stories I've heard I've been doing it for 25 years and I've never been cut till last Monday you know and so it only only takes that one unplanned event and and things start to start to happen comments gentlemen what do you think well I just think it's all it all starts with the basics if you don't have the basics down you got nothing you got to get those basics down yeah I I think so so you know a good place to get that would be December 12th through the 14th wouldn't it absolutely come see yeah so got the storm sawing workshop and I've always called it storm sawing Workshop because that seemed to get in kind of interest from from different groups but it's it's uh it it it really works for for logging and tree care and those kind of things when it comes to learning those basics of uh of Saw performance and maintenance and selection and then looking at the different aspects of putting together plans and then also looking at some different situations of of sa on the work site and those kinds of things that that we we try to put into it and I if you if you have never considered a workshop before I think that would be one of the best ones to go to because I know Chris is going to do a good job at it and so that's going to be in the up in U Danville Virginia on December 12th 13th and 14th so and there's not many of those where you can travel to and get free lodging and board you know and food so that's a that's a good deal for the cost on that one so all you got to do is show up they'll feed you well too and uh I guess you're going to cap it off about 12 people yeah y 12 12 we try to keep the Hands-On classes so that you you're you're not standing around a whole lot so it's uh it's something where that that'll really work so let's see a message from Robin Elston said uh wish wish we could have saw a little wood together Chris I might have learned something I guess you know you must know Robert Robin Elston yeah he was in Houston with a heck of a saw mechanic I kept him busy fixing broken saws so he could oh I know who you're talking about now yeah we talked about the other day yeah good guy y y tell him I'll come back I'll come back to Texas Robin don't worry you get plun of of Banes and tornado so we'll come back yeah yeah Michael was saying something about that last week they were probably gonna be doing some work over in Houston with the power company too so yeah a lot of lot of tree damage Keith any comments you in town next week no just yeah I'm just like I say trying to catch up on some things worked in a flower garden all all day today um different times during the day and just getting some rest and uh trying to catch up with honey does but glad to check in here and learn a little more and try to Pro be a proponent for you know safe operation and those fundamentals for for chainsaw operation very good very good Jeremy Williams you still on there any comments questions still here just listening in uh it's just been a minute since I've uh kind of been on that on this side of the industry and that kind of stuff and just wanted to learned from one of the Old Pros one of the Old Masters so yeah old yeah I got you that wasn't that wasn't the the emphasis on my sentence there [Laughter] ttim yeah well all I do is sleep most of the time nowadays and try to work on a few videos or something but I can't get out and about much with the heat like it is I I run down pretty fast now but sure I don't know maybe maybe all this cancer will heal up one day I don't know but we'll see um appreciate you dropping in tonight and you guys uh welcome to come back next uh Thursday night we finish up our our discussion on this series and um if anybody has any any questions on anything you can send them to info@ Forest apps.com or you can leave comments on one of the YouTube or the Facebook uh comment sections and I will I'll get the get answers back to you and so uh so anyway that's uh that's about it for tonight we've about run out of time so um you guys take it easy be careful out there and I wish you all good sawing until next Thursday and and Beyond I guess and Beyond so anyway so you guys take it easy and uh we'll talk to you next week