The Root Of All Evil—John Waters

[Music] good afternoon uh Ireland has long been famous for its writers its thinkers its philosophers uh people like uh Burke for example who um LED so much of the analysis of the of the tumultous events of the 18th century who led um in many ways the thinking in Britain and Westminster away from Revolution and towards a more peaceful um thoughtful and painstaking approach to change and to developing a society Ireland of late has become somewhat hostile to its own thinkers just as the society in Scotland and England and in places as far away as Canada Australia United States have seen um a a a fractious um and intemperate um and a very brittle ideology characterized as walk uh come in and displace what had been there before Ireland has seen this uh very strongly and one of the people who have pushed back against this is my guest today John Waters and John has pushed back against it with a degree of gentleness and passion and love for his country and his people and his Society um that shines through in his work and he's done what is so difficult to do he's looked at contemporary society and he's he's spoken honestly about what he sees um and um for this he's been a big hero of all of us at UK colum for some considerable time and I'm delighted to welcome him today uh John how are you I'm very well thanks David and nice be with you I I'd like to look at a at your most recent article today John um and discuss it with you um you've you've issued this you you publish these things on uh in your own right because um publishing them in the mainstream Irish press I think is no longer longer possible uh it's called fake money as a cluster bomb uh just before we get into the the subject of that article um could you just say a few words about how you're publishing information now and and why it's not um in the kind of journalistic field that you used to be uh making your career and you're living in I'm on substack now like half the world I suppose at this stage although I was actually on quite early on in its life um I've been on about near three years now uh and I'm on at John waters. subs.com John Waters onchain is easier to remember um as to your SEC the second part of your question I mean I I worked for 30 years in the mainstream media um 35 years and and 24 of those in the Irish Times Ireland's paper of record and um you know I I continued until uh I lasted until 2 14 uh when very strange events started to unfold in the paper and around it concer particularly concerning the forthcoming referendum at that stage in on marriage gay marriage in other words and uh it was anticipated that I would resist that and that may or may not have been an accurate uh presumption but uh in any event I didn't get a chance to even begin to resist I was attacked you know some uh 18 months actually before the referendum actually took place so H and I found that several of my own colleagues were involved so surreptitiously in attacking me under pims on Twitter and so on so I decided I couldn't continue in such a place and uh I I A year later I continued in journalism uh for another year uh for a rival newspaper the independent and uh uh but at that stage I realized that this rot had had spread to everything in the media and that it was no longer possible to actually you know be to do a job on the basis that you were there to express your honest opinions you know take a position as you saw the world and to express that and so uh I decided to leave and uh I then spent a few years in the wilderness uh I suppose and then I three years ago as I say uh about the Autumn of 2020 I to I started on substock uh having been kind of I suppose there involved in public events for some months before that particularly in relation to a a court case a challenge myself taken by myself and another former journalist or other journalist uh if you want to Define journalist correctly H JY and we took a challenge uh to to the courts uh about the lockdown on the basis that it was clearly unconstitutional and that if if this was permitted well then we didn't have a constitution so I went to the court in search of reassurance that we actually did and unfortunately we were disappointed on that score because it turns out we don't actually have a constitution yeah Constitutions are not quite what they're um claim to be um Canada's also found this out um the Constitution has a has a fine start places everything uh as a hierarchy under God and there's not been much of that visible in uh can Canadian government policy of late um and uh things are really no better in Britain which used to Pride itself of having the finest constitution in the world because it wasn't written down and it was a bit more flexible and it could evolve over time and uh that's not being any sort of protection either because the evolution has been to um erode things of value without realizing what was being lost um if we can come to your article so fake money is cluster bomb as a title I was very struck by the the opening line which is money is clearly not what it used to seem to be now this this struck me because one of the things that we use to illustrate the nature of the problem with money is uh some of the charts that run from the end of the second World War through to the present dat so if you chart um real earnings against productivity for example um those lines go up in lock step it's hard to tell those two lines are so close re learnings and productivity rise entirely together until 1971 and then in 1971 productivity continues to rise on its more or less its former path and real earnings basically go flat so all of the gains from rising productivity by the people um by extra investment by the benefits of capitalism all the rest of that are no longer distributed in terms of wages as they were up until 1971 and of course what happened in 1971 well the last vestages of real money the last link to a gold standard uh was abandoned uh when America defaulted so this struck me you know this money's not what it used to be is very much a line that I followed you continue once it was a measure of human work in genius and by virtue of being the token of reward for all of these now it is uh as though the measure sorry now it is as though the measure of the threat to our civilization um so money becoming actually a corrosive element money taking a part of our civilization what led you to this conclusion well I've been thinking about it in all kinds of directions for a long time and and then following different threads and uh um it's quite a it's a very complex subject and a lot of it is kind of confusing a lot of wires Tangled together it's very hard to sort it out you know but I read a book for a very interesting book some uh some months ago by a guy called Roy saac called the natural order of money which is a very slim volume and I gather he intended to write a vast volume uh you know initially and then he at the very last moment he decided no I need to do this very toly and it is a really beautiful book uh because it it defines first of all the nature of an economy which is essentially at the there are two circles the inner circle is uh productive work for essenti obvious in the prod work in the production of Essentials so that's that includes people like Farmers miners Lumberjacks fishermen Etc and not not an awful lot of more more of more Personnel right and then beyond that then is the Overflow that at a certain point when the participants in the inner eon economy the the real economy have enough for themselves they produce a surplus and this Surplus enables an outer ring to develop which is the service economy now the inner economy he says has to obey certain laws certain rules the law of the land the law of you know the farmer has to respect his soil for example he has to make sure he keeps it in good health the fisherman has to accept respect the water and so on and he says these laws also have to affect and have to be respected in the outer ring if it is to remain coherent so I I I wrote an article about that some months ago in which I was really making the case quite related to this article that what has fundamentally gone wrong you know at at the macro level is that these laws are no longer obeyed in that outer ring and indeed they're no longer obeyed in the inner ring because the outer ring imposes its own Logic on that you can see this for example with the Dutch Farmers you know that the farmers are no longer permitted to be be Farmers the farmers are no longer permitted to Simply approach their work the way they have done it always and and respect the soil respect the land as the Dutch Farmers above all have done and uh so you get this incoherence begins to intervene then but then you see this then begins to create a a kind of a different notion of economics and this is fundamentally I think what's gone wrong is that a science as it were has developed around something very simple you know when I was a child uh I I used to go and visit my grandmother in the summertime and she was a farmer and you know she produced most of her own food uh she had milk and cheese and butter and she made her own bread she made her own jam and so on and then a Saturday night she would go out down to the the traveling shop would pull up at the front gate and she would carry down two trays of eggs and she would exchange those for the things that she couldn't produce herself no money would change no money as such but in actual fact the the eggs money in a certain sense in a sense and they were that therefore the that money has to adhere therefore to that to almost like if you like the quality of the egg and in true history as sag is making the point in that gold became the the nearest uh cor correlative phenomenon which could be used in this way in order to to track the value of the produce the measure of the work and the measure of the reward and not lose anything in the process not be interfered with b and large of course there was interference you know the Shaving of gold coins and so on was a well-known phenomenon but nevertheless in principle this was how it worked and it seems you know that once we deviate from that then you end up eventually you go off on one and you eventually end up where we are where money has no value at all in a certain sense it can do things it's extraordinary you know we're looking at a situation in Ireland at the moment of mass migration just to take an example and for 10 years we've had a housing crisis in Ireland we've had 10,000 Irish people unable to find homes living in rough living in in hostels and so on living in rented accommodation families living in hotel rooms and the politicians just shrug their shoulders and say you know it was nothing we can do it's it's it's an intractable problem you know it's just the way it is but then suddenly import we we find this year that we have all this this inflow of of refugees from Ukraine quite a few of them and indeed a lot of people apparently coming from elsewhere who are pretending to be ukrainians uh but anyway and many of these are unvetted but that's beside the point in this in this particular argument and but now suddenly the problem of housing is actually soluble it can be fixed the government is able to actually create housing can build modular homes dozens hundreds of them like overnight in a a matter of weeks H and so on so you have to ask yourself T these appear to be there for people will say well that's just on Injustice and it is but there's something else going on what you're dealing with here is two different quantities two different kinds of money in the first instance you're dealing with some semblance of real money when the government says there is none because there isn't but in the context in which we now find ourselves there is no end of money because of all the circumstances in which we find ourselves in the context of the pandemic over the last three years when it seemed suddenly all the bets were off and there was no limit on money whatsoever that there was no end of the amount of paper that could be generated calling itself money to do whatever was necessary as though as though it is almost like you know if somebody you know wins a lottery and then gets you know finds out that they have a terminal disease and they have only a year to live so they spend the full year trying to spend all the money they've won before they die there's almost that quality about what's happening that it's all that that because as clearly is the case this whole thing has been about money in the first place I mean this started uh as I understand it with a notification sent out by Black Rock the world's greatest biggest uh asset management company on the 15th of August 2019 to inform the G20 and the supernational organizations like the UN and the EU and the WF that the world economy was about to collapse the currencies were in grave danger and they needed to be put in a coma the whole thing needed to be put in the a coma and essentially by that telling of things and I think it's pretty accurate that uh the the the entire thing was about that and in that period Then the what happened was in that context of the coma that we could move money around in a certain way but not in certain other ways we had to close down the economy but we could give pay people to stay at home and then you create all of these absurdities whereby because fundamentally you're not dealing with money you're dealing with what but you are dealing with something real David and this is the point people think well then it's you can just keep doing this but you are dealing with something real and to the best of my calculations what we're dealing with is the the livelihoods and and and birth rights and and inheritances of our children's children's children at this stage I think we've already spent our children's Children's inheritance and therefore you know because that graph you you described there in relation to the relationship between productivity and income yes it's very interesting but there's another one as you know between GDP which is a related though not entirely synonymous uh uh concept H and and with debt and you know what you actually see is that in America and lot across the Western World you know GDP and and death those two lines went more or less together they were almost the same line up to as you say the mid-60s of 1970 and suddenly they started to diverge and now the the the the GDP one is kind of like a slightly kind of a slight gradient cross the the going up from that period you know maybe 25 degrees and the debt started off going like this and then it started going like this and it's now like a rocket heading for the moon and that's essentially the reason why we're in this situation but in this context it appears we are now able to spend what is called money you know freely without consquence except of course there will be consequences the consequences if we even leave aside our children's children's children the consequences are that the price that is we the currency that we are now paying in is our own Freedom we are giving up the most basic freedoms we are being we will be required to give up the most basic freedoms to imprison ourselves in a digital Jail and to be answerable on a 247 basis to basically watching guards watching everything we do and this is the cost of the prosperity soal that we have soall enjoyed for the last whatever 50 years you're quite correct you see you you said several times it calls itself money or what's claim to be money right and you're you're casting doubts about whether it really is and I think you're absolutely right to do so we've gone as far as to start to use different words right say money money is money is a commodity money is gold and silver um everything else is money substitutes or it's currency or something else we try to use different words to separate the concepts um we spoke to an Islamic scholar uh last year he he used the term money with Integrity by which he meant gold and silver and and I thought that was a beautiful phrase because it did show um the nature of the corruption of society that comes from corrupting of of the money supply um and the the fact that these two concepts are so intertwined is often missed uh there was a uh an American um uh uh religious and economic scholar called Gary North he died uh I think a year or two ago now um back in 1973 he decided he would write an economic commentary in the Bible and he's thought well devote three hours every morning to this and I should knock it in the head oh nine months or so and I'll publish it well it ended up being 31 volumes and he finished it in 2012 right so he spent a good part of his life doing a line by line economic commentary in the Bible because there is simply so much in there that's relevant to economic life economic life and moral life um are very very closely related and to corrupt one corrupts both uh your um your your uh your article goes on to talk about some of this and some of the funding that that is generated to change society using this funny money and of course the the the aspect of of um of the funny money being uh something that has a real consequence is very true right we're starting to see it now with inflation we're starting to see it now where we're all much poorer you the bank of England are saying well you just got to have to admit you're all poorer now tough luck thanks for playing and this drain on our society the fact that you cannot really have um a a a man supporting a wife and a family now on one salary it's it's almost impossible for most jobs it's impossible to do um for most jobs in most places in the west it's simply it can't be done and it can't be done not because people are demanding a higher standard of living and and lots of luxuries it can't be done because it can't be done they can't afford the basics um so all of this is real is real enough and the falsity of the money supply of the money substitutes is generating a lot of things you point this out that wouldn't happen if we had money with Integrity so you say money is the root of all evil in a day or two a month of compulsory celebration of LGBT power Menace will kick off right across the globe mostly financed from the pockets of people who have no right to speak against what is in truth a massive exercise and bullying and intimidation and even more fundamentally attack on the values and morals of Western civilization and far less abstractedly upon its children so this is part of the power loss that that you were describing there that when um when the money is no longer real ownership of it is no longer real ownership of it is uh constantly subverted essentially by theft uh Gary North's um short summary book after he had finished his 31 volumes was Christian economics in one lesson and the one lesson was Thou shalt not steal um via taxation via inflation there's theft everywhere and all the time and their products of that theft are then directed um wherever the beneficiaries wish them to be and the society as a whole being impoverished no longer has the financial resources to resist and hence we have the sort of LGBT uh Power game that you've described um is is that how you see it would you like to expand a little bit on that sort of loss of power loss of Liberty issue there's another yes there's another issue which is the the the the the shift from an Economy based on human work labor and sweat and blood and and and and um and into a model that is basically a roulette table you know that we're dealing by when we talked about economics we're talking about basically bets on the stock market and so on bonds and all this stuff right so H that has fundamentally changed without it becoming visible above ground the philosophy of politics whether we're aware it or not and we we often look at the politicians who now rule us particularly in the last three years and they do rule us or try to that's their their their ambition and we we see there's a certain vindictiveness in their in their their their gaze and their snear and their abruptness to to the public where this is it take it or leave it you know suck it up that's the kind of subtext of almost everything and that be speak something much deeper which is that they know they are aware that in a certain sense now the human work is no is only a small part of what is called economics that the fate of the world is decided on these roulet T roulette tables and what is called money can be you know obtained much easier than simply taxing the ordinary person although they continue to do that so corporations by dropping a few crumbs on their table can keep the Irish economy taking over through the year you know because they're here to tax Dodge and they have a few spare you know a little bit of of of shrapnel that they can cast in the way of their Irish Revenue uh Commissioners and and that that allows them to that allows the econom Irish economy to boast about itself as being the rich we're now the richest country in the world like which is complete nonsense anybody who lives in Ireland tells you this is just laughable except it's not funny H you know and and but the thing is the politicians behave like it is true they speak to the people as if it is true and they more or less treat the people almost as if they are mendicants that they are no longer earning their keep as it were that's the that's the subtext that you feel from these people and and as a result of that then there's that rat and people pick it up you know and there is a sense that that may explain to a high degree you know the the compliance and The Obedience that you see that people have a sense even though these things are never discussed in these terms of course the the the economic discourse just like the political discourse and the spiritual discourse there is completely bankrupt it doesn't happen it's not permitted anybody who is anything interesting to say about economics or spirituality they're not permitted on the mainstream media that's the end of it or anything else either H so that's a factor I think that that that we're dealing with here that a the these economies have taken off and therefore in a certain sense what's actually happened is our democracy democracies have been abolished implicitly with without anybody announcing it this had happened for some time I think before 2020 that the tone the attitude of politicians the political class all over the world all over the West in particular was that you know that was all history and you can see there's a kind of an explanation David in that for some of the things that puzzled us so much in the context of the inab the unwillingness of liberals to speak out against the lockdowns for example which 25 years ago they would have very valuably done uh so so in the money context then you're talking about all of these this fake money being available like there is no money let's get this clear there is no money because really we are in such debt that it is you know it is completely nonsensical to talk about us having any capacity to spend money on the basis that we are entitled to do so I mean as a state as a as a as an economy because we are so far into the future in our debts that you know it's completely unreal but what is actually happening now is that they're trying to to to close down one system having it having collapsed it have even failed and find a way of starting the new one slightly on an enjoining site uh the digital currency Central Bank digital currency is the chosen model and somehow transfer everything from one to the other and this is the important part without them and I mean the powerful richest people in the world without them losing one red scent that's that's the most important thing and so what happens what is going to happen is that everybody The Ordinary People the working people will lose pretty much everything in order to make sure that they don't lose that single red scent and H and and the money system as we that's why you know people say you hear people say things like oh they're they're they're putting uh a refuges up in Top Class accommodation with our money uh but they won't after the Irish that isn't actually true because it's not our money it's nobody's money it's not money it's just something they use to cre and it creates a movement of course it does it it creates effect somebody May H redecorate a house for example with it and that that redecorated house will remain but the money itself has no value it is nothing it is it is a fabrication it is created EXO out of nothing and will this disappear then when it not is no longer you know relevant it will simply be struck off the screen and they erased and and so all of this is It's a form of magic really but it it shows you you know that in in for so many years what was really happened when we were facing things like austerity and that's only 10 years ago that this too was a fabrication there was no necessity for for austerity they could have done something like this but do it for the benefit of the people sake uh but that wasn't the thing that the powerful Rich interest wanted to happen for all kinds of complex reasons so you know I don't think people really understand you see we're not permitted to understand and it's very difficult I'm not saying even that everything that I'm saying is absolutely correct it's a broad it's a very much a broad stroke sketch of what we're facing but because this is horrendously complex but it's something very very strange about the way that you know for example the way that for the last year it has been clear that that the the the money systems of the world the dollar the the Sterling the Euro uh are in extra time and yet they're holding on they're holding on they're able to contain it while they're preparing the cbdc the Central Bank digital currency and it seems to me that what they're actually doing is they're trying to bring the people to a pitch of desperation that they would accept anything in the end and that's all a matter of timing and it's a matter of juggling so I don't know if if U this is the bizarre thing about all of this period has been David that you know there seems to be a political discourse out there in the mainstream media and economic discourse but it's pretending like it's as if it's pretending that the deadline is something like 2002 or something or maybe 1998 you know when certain things might still have obtained which no longer obtained we're in a completely different situation we're in a completely aberrational situation we're in in an completely unprecedented situation uh and there's no telling how it's going to end up I mean where are we all going to have to it's quite possible for example to my mind and you know I'd be very interested to hear your view and the view of economists if they would speak about such things it's very Poss of all I would say that that if the ingame we're headed for in Ireland for example is at a certain point when it emerges that all of these debts are there they're all owed in a certain sense corporately by Ireland that means the Irish people H that the people with the chits for those debts will come and say well we want ours we want something and and it seems to me that if you were to actually price put a price on every blade of grass every grain of sand and every drop of rainwater in Ireland price it you still wouldn't have enough to pay all these debts and what will actually happen is these guys well we'll just take Ireland we'll just take Ireland and then you'll have nothing but you'll be happy and why will you be happy because you'll be afraid that something far worse would have happened you nothing in be happy is is the uh rallying call of the world economic forum and um I think they've deeply regretted saying the quiet bit out loud um you make a good point though because it's not only Ireland that can't repay the debts really no country in the West can repay the debts America you know the the the largest richest country um the country with the greatest natural gifts and um with the greatest record of um essentially you know freedom and and a benign environment without external threats um they're now so hopelessly in debt there's no way the debt can ever be repaid I mean we're going through the debt cealing crisis just now and they've sort of got a deal and we're going to see if they pass the deal through Congress the that this is an admission that if we can't borrow more money we'll default well that's the definition of a Ponzi scheme unless you can bring more money in then we can't possibly repay the existing debts that's the admission that's upon Ponzi scheme it can never be paid that the the idea that America will go into long-term U fiscal Surplus and and gradually pay down the what is it$ 32 trillion that they currently owe um until everyone's paid back is just fantasy it can never be repaid and the only thing that can happen there is default and there's only two ways of default one is inflation right the the the the value of the money is inflated away to almost nothing um inflation is running quite high so 100% in Argentina it's been up to 10% in America um or you actually default you officially default and you say to people well we'll pay you 5 cents in a dollar you take it or leave it um and ultimately that's going to have to happen because the idea that um you can have an an unworkable amount of debt with compound interest working away and somehow it it will be a soft Landing is fanciful I thought you put it very well quote another piece from your your AR IAL uh you said dead is therefore an expression of human desire exceeding human capacity to um generate maybe satisfy human needs um and you see the process of modern money creation could be deemed a form of priestcraft now I thought that was a very insightful line because uh if you look at uh possibly the best book written on money and Banking and and the mechanics of how it operates is is mly rothbard's the miss mystery of banking and he used the phrase the word mystery very accurately because this summons up uh an almost religious almost impossible to know um uh um um process that doesn't have you know readily understood rationality at its heart and of course when you're talking about all so-called money money substitutes almost all money substitutes not being money anymore I.E being a genely desirable desirable good be it gold or silver or your grandmother's eggs um that people say yes I see that I I I want to hold that I'll give you some of what I've got to get that and we've got an exchange and we've got actual money um instead it's being created out of nothing by Banks when the banks create it they create a liability and they back that liability with an asset and that asset is a security a debt instrument and so everything's built on debt most of it government debt and so the government's become ever more indebted and we're told it's a good thing um the whole economy is based on a strange circulation of dollars and dollar denominated United States government debt and there is less and less real value underpinning it it's more and more bankrupt and it's a strange site waiting for it to collapse but I feel collapse it must um you you go on to um look more at the civilizational um Decay that that comes from all of this um you're right here um little more than a decade or so in the past it was though money had all but become extinct now our government splashes around the place and things we do not ask for lanes that turn public th Affairs into Olympic stadia Street Furniture that no no one ever sits upon the purchase of farms for the purchase of closing them down modular homes for unvetted migrants while native citizens sleep in tents Road works that never end so you you you're seeing this odd expenditure and these strange decisions coming from the governmental administrative um managerial cast if you like um and you comment on this you say the issue is that we do not have a civilization and have not had one for a long time if we had then the people now in charge of our countries would never have risen above the roles of nightclub Dorman or traffic wardens what I want to put to you here John is um a big part of the driver of all of this decay of the decay of money and the decay of our of of our of our leadership uh we have to look at ourselves we have to look at what we as peoples have done and where we have been bought out because uh the desire to live at someone else's expense the desire for the hand out the desire for a state that says don't you worry about your future we'll do that for you you just go down the pub Don't You Worry About a Thing the the the desire to the willingness to vote for some to put someone in power who who who lies and says you can have a free lunch oh that sounds good the the surrender of integrity that's involved in all of that um I think is vital in generating a kind of bottom up movement towards corruption at the top of society and cor and and hand in hand with that corrupt of the financial institutions of society they're corrupt because the majority of men and women in the west have themselves willingly cooperated with the corruption do you see it that way yes and no I mean I I I in principle yes in the sense that this is clearly what happened and and um and and we should have as a as a as populations as Citizens as as electorates we should have been aware of it but I have said that you know did none of this has been discussed I mean I've never heard in the mainstream media in the in my life a discussion about this the way money is generated as debt is never discussed even though it's a fundamental it's almost the first thing you see when you open the box what's this this is a strange mechanism here what dides it do and that's the way it works and and they don't talk about that so people don't really understand so people therefore in in our Western economies think that what's happening is by and large organic in other words you know if I have a big car it's because I earned it and you know I may well feel that I have I have earned it that I've written a lot of Articles and you know I can show you them all and that's a lot of work and so on and so on and so on but how do I say how do I adjudicate that when I don't understand the mechanisms of what makes what is the correlation of of the value of the work to the to the to the to the money that they what they call money so all of these things are at at Cross purposes and have been and we've been borrow living on borrowed time and borrowed everything and you know that's kind of related to the to the also the the somewhat bigger idea of of of the West and its kind of state of privilege if you like in the context economically in the world that's it's almost as if we felt that what was happening there was again naturalistic organic and it was almost no more than our Jew on the basis of our you know sophistication and civilized values and you know skills and genius and so on but in fact what the what the what the what the psms tell us is that that's not true what the sums tell us is that we've been living way beyond our means that there's a complete disproportionality between you know what we think we've done to deserve this and what actually we have done and that the death is the measure of that it's as I said the measure of our desire gone out of control enable unable to Simply say well okay I'll make do with what I have I mean this is something that you know I mean I don't wanted to go all nostalgic but you know my father's generation my mother's generation they never really went any more beyond their means than they could reclaim in say like a year that would be a pretty daring Enterprise for them to borrow money that more money than you could repay in a year and then they would only do it for very particular context and so and something in which there would be a tangible asset that could be disposed of in the event that everything went par shaped h we don't think like that anymore and we don't think at all about this we just think this is the way it is you know and you said about the way that that that you know you were talking in the beginning about the disproportionality between H wages and productivity and so on and the way that that that those two lines diverged one of the factors there was that we didn't notice this you know we didn't notice that you know maybe about 30 years ago they started after certainly after the the the the the the big spike interest rate spikes of the uh early 90s they started they brought the interest rates down and then they started to give us more and more cheap money but at the same time wages were pretty much plate and that was how that trick was done all of this is all Conjuring you talked about mystery it's also Conjuring that you know they they they they give us uh cheap uh loans in Li of of higher wages and so on so there's all and but so we're not even earning the money anymore we're just borrowing it and we're we're spending it and trying to pay it back with our salaries which isn't really working and so on and our taxes which isn't working so the whole system is completely kaput it doesn't work at all it doesn't work I mean this whole question of the mystery it is it is a mystery because you know if I produce something say a kilo or a stone of potatoes and I sell them to you and you give me whatever the the coiny uh and it doesn't matter whether it's a silver coin or a you know a tener uh it's pretty much the same thing because then that that that tenor goes into the E into the mark of the economy and it goes round and round and round and the idea is that that that will kind of maintain some control on the appetites and the Ambitions and the aspirations of those who have H have the handling of it and that it'll come out at the end of a very long sequence and everything will still be intact that no longer works and it's precisely because we have departed from the the concept of real money gold coins whatever that would be that would absolutely be constructed to to track precisely the value a measure of the produce the effort and the reward and that that remains so what you see the problem is that the gambling tables aren't interested in that the the guys at the gambling tables are no interest in that because they don't make money by effort or reward they make it by gambling and and for it for the gambling to work there needs to be all kinds of other forms of in the mix in order to M multiply the figures on the screen and that's been our undoing or part of our own doing so I suppose if you were to say are we to blame yes but we're we're kind of innocent dupes in it because we have been persuaded by the corrupt media that what is happening is still naturalistic if you look at economic uh commentary in general it looks at things like productivity and you know interest rates and so on all things that are themselves to some extent real but the fundamental model is completely unreal and they never give you any hint about that the commentary even from such people as the bank of England right who are talking about inflation and they give us all of these I mean with a straight face so all inflation we we we we've got our eyes on this we have got our finger on the pulse and it's caused by Supply shocks and it's caused by um you know wage push and it's caused by so they they'll they'll give us the various incantations they won't ever say it was caused by the fact that we shut the economy down for two years and we just printed money like it was going out of fashion and we distributed this through the economy and inflation is an increase in money supply so we increase the money supply there's no honesty there's no honesty about what they did and there's this I think I find quite pathetic attempt to blame anybody but them well it's not us we are we working hard to fight to protect the value of the pound that's part of our core Mission and you look at these people and say well look since we came off the gold standard at the start of the first world war um and it isn't interesting how to really kill a lot of people you need to have cheap money um we came off a gold standard at the start of the first world war a pound was a sovereign that was the definition you could take a pound note in and you you would get a gold Sovereign and a gold Sovereign now is £400 which means the gold Sovereign hasn't changed but the purchasing power of the pound has evaporated by 399 400s so that's almost a complete wipe out of of of the currency unit under the wise stewardship of the bank of England and Co and the and the government now how do you actually run a fair Society when you're saying to someone well save for your old old age right because you know you you want to have a a safe retirement so put some money aside say for your old age when that money is deteriorating at that sort of rate right you cannot do it you cannot have you you're you're making some excuses for the for the public and and and you're making a good point because the incentives when the underlying value of the currency unit is is declining so fast the incentives become skewed they become distorted you don't have an incentive to save you have an incentive to pay some lying politician to promise you a pension based on someone else's hard work because actually with the money with the money value the value of the currency unit being destroyed that becomes sensible in a strange sort of way so it it it is quite fundamental and yes to an extent we have been I I think you make a good point there you know one of the most disgusting things I find about all of this is that the way that the politicians are stoking up animosity between different sections of society you know the Millennials against the Boomers you know what I mean this kind of stuff oh the Boomers have all these big houses and we can't get houses of our own as if this was a kind of again an organic process I mean there are very good reasons which are probably too complex to go into now why that situation has come about but it's not the fault of rumors themselves that they actually still have houses because you would expect people in a civilized society which has been going so long as this one has been that to be able to afford to live in a decent house that shouldn't be such an extraordinary thing and the only reason those houses are so extraordinarily dear is that the prices have been distorted by Banking and banking practice when in fact you know my father you know built a house in the 30s with four of his mates in a few weekends probably on about three month salary our income and it was perfectly adequate but and there was no necessity for for for loans at all you see this the same people then who will will accuse those Boomers of having taken their birth right and by living in a bigger house than they can ever dream about they the ones who took the 350 quid in Ireland or whatever it was in the UK per week for staying at home home during the lockdown and I would say to those kind of people this can't this isn't real this cannot work this cannot be this is the completely bonkers the an economy can't work like this and they of course it can yeah the government will just print money and it's fine all but I said you know it's a terrible pity you know my father died in 1989 and you know he never knew he got up at half four every morning six days a week for 50 years and worked until 7:30 at night driving a mail car he never knew that he could make the same money lying in bed reading the paper he just didn't know that and I'm so sorry that I couldn't tell him that if he was still alive I say no no no don't need you don't need to go out in the snow you don't need to drive your van in this in those terrible conditions stay in bed I'll make you a cup of tea and here's the farmer's journal for a read okay now this is this is the bizarre and ludicrous outcome of what we've generated here like I in my art I talked about some some supposed puzzle that's in the British economy at the moment which is that there's huge unemployment but there's an it's impossible to find workers how could this be well the answer is very simple that the differential between what somebody is able to earn I I made it up on an hourly basis on the basis of one way one hourly rate I think it was 1075 in an sumers so stacking shells or whatever the differential for between what they would have got for sitting at home in in in May of 201 20 is 225 or something per hour that's the differential so that means they have to get out of bed go get a bus pay for the bus or pay for the tube uh buy a sandwich buy a cup of tea or coffee and for out of that 22 225 when in fact he could be sitting at lying at home in bed watching Netflix and the government is puzzled as to why people aren't taking up this wonderful uh opportunity to earn 225 per hour in the modern British economy and this is another symptom of the craziness that that you know you see and the amazing thing here is David this that economists are silent about this they're sitting there as if they don't see any of this and in fact that article in spectator put it all down to brexit it has nothing whatsoever to do with brexit you know like it's crazy and and people have no idea and it's it's amazing the brexit thing is amazing because it's almost as if now brexit actually was all orchestrated in order to provide an excuse for the craziness and the madness that's actually happening now I mean I find whenever I start a conversation with people over here about something that I know and have known for three years about what's going on but they don't recognize they're not familiar with the terminology that I might be using because it doesn't it doesn't resonate with anything they've heard on the news and they listen to me for about um you know a minute or so and then I say like you mean brexit I said no I don't mean brexit I mean the end of the world the um nature of the economics profession of the most the mainstream part of it is of course it's long since surrendered to be part of the intellectual cover um the the the intellectuals of the government so they're they're putting forward um ideas that are based on uh State intervention counters recession that's that's the basic princip you need the wise hand of our glorious leaders um to to put their hand on the till and guide the ship of State through these Stormy Waters because otherwise you know otherwise you'll just be tossed and turned and overturned and and wrecked and and and it'll be a disaster so there's the assumption that normal human interaction um will end up H in in in in catastrophic failure um the idea of the Invisible Hand where we all work hard and because we coordinate our activities via a a reasonably free and fair market we actually find the most valuable ways to serve one another and this helps everybody that's gone from the economics profession largely because it's gone from government it's not in the interest of government people to start thinking hey we can do this for ourselves we don't need government um and and and the the the governmental hand is visible very strongly in the in the economics profession you talk about the government hand um you're right so we hear only words of contempt for the founders of our civilization those men of steel and iron gray of ha and suit who placed the restraining hand on zealotry and exuberance when it came to matters of public interest or concern knowing that this would unleash to pent up energies of the people in the direction of a better future now their places are taken by smirking Scoundrels whose venality fecklessness and ignorance no words have yet been invented um smirking Scoundrels I think is a beautiful description of our political leaders um I I i' obviously sitting here in Scotland we've just lost I'm pleased to say Nicholas sturgeon um who had developed and all the politicians around her got the same habit um whenever she would put forward an what the opposing point of view might be however unfairly she might state it she would always give a little guttal snorty laugh right as though anyone would could possibly think that her wonderful policy wasn't correct um so smking Scoundrels was was was correct you go on said we must conclude that this is not an accident but an orchestrated imposition of the most vapid mediocrity upon the institutions of state and culture um all this was enabled by money but he we stubble upon an extraordinary truth money of the old kind could not have facilit facilitated such an Insurgency of mediocrity so you're seeing this as an orchestrated attack and this is this is something that UK call particularly Brian garish comments on quite a lot this is not accidental it's an orchestrated attack um I'm um a little less certain on that because I see both orchestrated a top down and also a kind of cultural bottom up two-phase attack but I think the point still well made um and and the fact that it could not be funded it could not be generated with real money because real money money with Integrity just isn't given over to these sorts of Enterprises um because it has real value and it's it's this it's the strange fake money um that that is the um the the the the motivating uh engine behind the attack on our society um again I quote your summary pie here you say fake money begets societies comprising of nothing but lies um so I I mean I think I think that is very insightful and it happens so subtly and in so many ways it's difficult to trace but I still feel you've you've Hit Upon a very deep truth there um the lack of Integrity the Society of lies that comes from the counterfeit money um is something that is uh inescapable in our societies now it's everywhere it's in the benefit system that um incentivizes people to stay at home it transpires that if you subsidize idleness fecklessness and illness you get more of them just like you get more of anything if you subsidize it um we've got uh a situation in in Britain now that if you're doing quite well and your middle class and you're around about 50,000 salary and you get a pay rise because of the way the tax and benefit system works your marginal tax rate is 98% right it all goes the pay rise doesn't exist the government takes it all right so there is no incentive at all to push forward to further your career because you're just getting longer hours and more stress for for nothing the this the incentives become increasingly uh increasingly Twisted the dials are pointing in the wrong direction um this is um could could we maybe just we've been talking for almost an hour uh could could could we bring this uh to to a conclusion with a few comments about how you see things affecting Ireland we cover Ireland uh from time to time on the UK Callum not nearly enough um there's so much happening there there's so many changes happening with such rapidity how do you see these pressures and these weaponized um um money substitutes affecting your own country what I see really David is a moral inversion in all kinds of under all kinds of headings in other words bad has become good good has become bad black has become white I mean you know I mentioned my father earlier on and and and he was a hardworking man as were all of his generation and you know I mean it never occurred to me growing up that the purpose of work or the purpose of politics or the purpose of Journalism or the purpose could be anything other than a constructive edifice in other words it was the purpose of it was to do something that would benefit the world and you would be rewarded for that that has completely been flipped now in this model of fake money because when you actually think about it most of politicians now get out of bed in the morning they brush their teeth they put on their clothes with the precise intention of doing destruction of making people unhappy of dismantling things of urinating on things H you know they're trying to push perversion into schools for example a great project for a polit pol politician to put on his gravestone is it not H you know like this is this is something that is is is really hard to contemplate and I can't actually I believe I confess that I I have not yet got the words to really capture the essence of this because it really is a manifest a manifestation of something very close to evil and it seems to me that there is a direct correlation between what we've been talking about in the perversion of money and this phenomena because it seems to me that you know this is always implicit in economics by the way going way back I remember 30 years ago writing about the whole concept of GDP and and so on I'm pointing out that actually it was not a measure of beneficial uh change you know that it incorporates lots of stuff that isn't good at all and and there's no there's no mechanism to actually tell one from the other and it seems that simply what this is that kind of an interim period now for example I would say well the we have a road here around the city of Dublin the M50 and I would make the point that well for example if there was a multiple car pileup on that uh Motorway tonight and required 17 ambulances and 14 fire brigades and 32 squad cars to attend and multiple personnel and doctors nurses police officers firemen Etc H all of this would go into GDP as a positive contribution to growth now it seems that we've got to the absolute extreme of that logic whereby everything the destruction of our civilization is now a profitable business I mean you have got you have things like for example H operations going on here you know for for several years now for example it has been impossible for people like me to speak in public in Ireland in a manner that can be advertised so that people will know we'll be in a certain place at a certain time because if we do that you know a bunch of mass tugs paid by the government or some agency of the government will come and try to disrupt the meeting uh do some serious damage maybe even physical damage to me or somebody else Menace and threaten and and so on and this is all regarded now as fine and dandy and it is indeed part of our new Ireland our new Progressive Ireland it has been paid for out of the exer and is presumably seen as contributing to the Future progress of our country and our economy H in some way in some roundabout way this is what I mean so we you see people talk about evil and and demonic forces and diabolical forces and satanic forces and I don't discount that in a certain sense if only that certainly I will accept it as a metaphor for what's happening but I think if you actually look into the entrails of what's happened to money and if you look and consider the relationship between money and the great I I touched on this in the article the great you know vices of man H greed and and and grasping and and and you know really you know uh you know mercilessness and and so on H as you can see there's a very close relationship between the arge for money because money being the kind of the tracker of human desire in the public realm you can by following money you can see where H the that desire is how it is moving and what its nature is and I think there is a very close relationship between those phenomena that actually when we talk about Satanism or or the the Demonic we could easily translate that into an economic equation I think uh I'm not necessarily qualified to do that but I do think that there's something there that explains a lot that is otherwise explicable only by what sounds like hyperbole well I remember well when the UK decided to include illegal drug taking uh dealing and prostitution in the GDP figures and this put UK GDP up and of course the this was back in 2014 we're still in the EU and our contributions to the EU um depended on GDP levels so the EU then immediately came and gave us a bill uh for quite a large sum of money which was their cut of our cut of the prostitution our government's cut of the prostitution um so I thought that was a nice moment um but your points well made it I've often been stopped by the fact that when uh in the Book of Revelation in the Bible when the the um the the center of uh of false religion of persecution of the truth truth um that is that is called U mystery Babylon the great um the great false church when it falls uh who who's unhappy it says and the merchants of the Earth shall weep and mourn over her right because they cannot sell their merchandise anymore there is a link there's a link between evildoing and grasping um and seeking after money there is for sure and I think we have to we have to recognize this we have to um start a public a public discourse which actually discusses it looks at it and and considers it properly and uh for all all that you're doing in that area John thank you very much is there anything you'd like to say before we go no just to to add to what you were saying there David which is the quotation with which I start the the article which is from the gospel of Mark which is the description of Jesus running the the the money changers from the temple I mean this is the time when Jesus in his Earthly life went absolutely bear shark you know the one time we kind of say he say no I'm not having any of this stuff and he went absolutely bunkers with his Whip and so on and and and uh you know it's not it was not for nothing he understood all this that's what he was saying that there is this profound link between money perverted desire and Evil and that in a certain sense we don't need to go beyond this to understand what has been happening in our cult countries and our cultures for the last three years in terms of what I talked at at the beginning about which is the vindictiveness and the ugliness of our political class now and indeed the the ruthlessness and indifference to ethics of our journalistic class and indeed the indifference to ethics of our medical uh professions and so on and and all these things are connected and ultimately you know back to that very simple and rather cliched banal St stright saying you know money is the E the root of all evil yes um uh I want to thank you John for your time today it's been a real pleasure talking to you uh until next time and I do hope there'll be next time take care e