hello and welcome into the fog. Net podcast my name is Michael Swain the Kansas beat writer for 247 Sports it's a Sunday evening I've been back home for maybe 30 minutes I did a little film room for our VIP subscribers and now we're jumping on with Kevin flarey to break down um ku's 23-17 loss to Illinois in Champagne a disappointing game for KU uh to say the least Kevin I know you watch that one at home uh how was the broadcast crew I'm always fascinated when when you know they we're nonon and get the new broadcast Crews I mean I saw the one guy was noer damus on the the pick six for Jaylen but but how was the broadcast crew generally for you guys watching at home yeah it's kind of funny I I think a lot of times these are guys that obviously aren't used to seeing Kansas football maybe the the biggest moment of levity came uh when Lance s was was kind of yelling at the official and the the two announcers were saying oh man you see Lance go off like that it's kind of like man you guys really do do not watch Kansas football if you think that that's something that that we haven't seen before the the pass that you talked about yeah they they basically called that it was Kansas was was out there and he said you know you're either going to see a screen pass or a draw right here and sure enough it it wind up being a screen pass that the defense apparently also saw coming and uh and went the wrong way but for for a group of people that you know or or for a couple people that hadn't seen Kansas before I'm assuming based on some of those comments I I did think that they went they did pretty well you know they they were really positive about Kansas you know they described Kansas as a championship Contender I think at at multiple points which will be a lot more difficult as I'm sure we'll we'll talk about uh after this episode but it it was overall a pretty positive broadcast from that standpoint you were there I I'm interested to hear what the atmosphere was like especially given that it's Kansas's first Rogue game of the year yeah look it's so so I was there and my dad was there with me because he you know was spent a couple years growing up in Champagne as a kid dad went champagne so or Illinois so he had he was sitting with an Illinois fan and it is so funny hearing about how the Illinois fans approach this game that they have have kind of the I don't know if it's right word like the beaten dog syndrome where like throughout the game at like a lot of them were like oh well we're going to screw it up oh we're going to screw it up and the crowd I thought reflected that a little bit where it times it got really loud like you can see on the pick six right the camera shaking it was so loud in there late in the game it got really loud but throughout different periods of the game like it was loud but it wasn't anything that I think you know you're saying like that's one of the hardest atmospher K's played in under Lance lipold um but it was kind of cool to get to see an old big 10 state Stadium um and it's one of those that's got a lot of history obviously and they've done redone some parts of it um but overall it was a cool game day atmosphere around the stadium getting to walk around like a lot of the tents and they've got a lot of the tailgating right outside the stadium and some big parking lots so it definitely had the classic college football kind of game day atmosphere and the the weather was perfect it felt like fall it was like high 60s during the day a little bit of a breeze um a little bit of gust of winds at some point but it was a great day for football um I wish the product was better I think generally we're still early in the year and for both of these teams I know we talked about it last week right you can't really learn a lot from Lynden wood I think you know talking to Jeremy Warner from the Illinois site like they really didn't feel like they could learn a lot from the game against Eastern Illinois either and so this game I think told us a lot about Kansas I think we probably just got to jump into it Kevin like with the offense um I'll give you Dealers Choice here do we want to start with the offense and maybe just like the game plan or do we want to jump in and talk Jaylen Daniels then talk game plan after um I I think I think we should probably talk Jaylen and the reason I say that is that you can come in with a game plan and based on what Illinois had shown and all those things you can think that a game's going to go one way and if if a guy doesn't have it for for one reason or another you know your game plan can can kind of go in the way basket pretty quickly yeah it can so I think first and foremost like there's so many ways I we can go with this Kevin so I think you look at this performance from Jaylen Daniels and obviously it's his worst overall game since probably his freshman year right less than five yards per attempt three interceptions is a career high and yet you can look at aspects of it and you saw him run the ball for the first time in over a year that was a positive that he is going to be part of the Run game at least in in this game but he just looked off and I think that was kind of the case for most of the game where it just looked a little off and I think accuracy wasn't there right we've talked before plenty of times Kevin about the arm talent that Jaylen has when he is on and you see the throws that he can make deep down the field and his accuracy and the ability to put balls into Tight Windows and that just wasn't there yeah I wonder after talking to Jaylen postgame you know he mentioned that Illinois did some good job disguising stuff did that create some hesitancy you know even if it's not a like a full conversation in your head of like oh wait what are they doing okay even if it's just a second of wait what's this what's this coverage like that can be the difference and I think like that third interception to Quinton Skinner maybe is a good example of that where if he pulls that trigger a little bit sooner I don't know if that safety's got the ability to come over and make that play So it's one of these games where it just felt like things compounded and for Jaylen just didn't look right and I don't really know what to make of it Kevin because he was pretty accurate against lynen wood and opponent doesn't matter right because you're talking about accuracy did you put the ball where it supposed to go and he did against London Wood and he didn't in this game and so I think it's really interesting to look at it through that way because I don't know how concerned I should be about this yeah and I I thought the the arm didn't play up as much and again I I'm right there with you on the opponent doesn't matter you're talking about a certain throw you put it to a certain spot to a certain guy I think about the ball that he threw to Quinton Skinner against lyen wood that was like the 18 yard kind of stop that he threw from the opposite hash and that thing was on a line it was thrown with confidence you know it it got on Skinner up here and so much of this stuff last night wound up being short or you know it was a line drive maybe when a little bit of touch would would have been the better play I agree with you 100% though on the the the interception there near the end where it was the the safety kind of hawked in it and I felt like kind of maybe baited him a little bit into that thing if he gets rid of that ball earlier it doesn't matter that he's ba that's still a touchdown I think because of when he got rid of it when he first threw it I'll be honest with you with the way that it was intercepted I thought man he didn't put any air under that thing you know he left it short when in all actuality he should he should have peppered that thing in you know it just should have come earlier and so that to me shows a little bit of a lack of confidence you know maybe as much as anything I know people were were kind of speculating as as internet doctors about about whether or not you know Jaylen wasn't right from a physical standpoint you talked to him after the game you know he he seemed fine uh you said and so I do think that you know maybe maybe it was a little bit of a confidence thing maybe it was a little bit of hey this throw would work out if you release this at a different point whether it's a little bit later a little bit earlier you think about a baseball pitcher right if you're if you're if you ever good fast ball and it that day it's really riding well and and everything else you can throw that thing with a lot of confidence and get great results a lot of times baseball managers will pull a guy when they're like man his fast ball right now it's about two miles an hour under what it usually is maybe he just doesn't quite have it today let let's go ahead and pull him and I'm not saying they should have pulled Jaylen what I'm saying I know what you're saying yeah yeah what I'm saying is just that for whatever reason one reason or another it was basically like a pitcher who didn't have his stuff last night yeah and let's be real here I thought about this as I was I just recorded my postgame video and then I was in the car right home and I was thinking about the amount of football jaylen's played and all of a sudden like for the first time in 12 months you're playing a full game when you know you're playing a team that in Illinois does a really good job of disguising coverages right and I don't know if Kansas's defense is one that is disguising a lot of coverages let's just say in practice right and so for your first game back really in a year because yeah okay lynen wood he threw the interceptions with you know with with Grimm but that was really a miscommunication rather than a bad throw yep and this is the first time you're in a full game and I feel like it almost was like rust where you're trying to find that that right level and the right angle to throw the ball in like the first interception To Grim you know maybe a little bit more Loft on that one and the guy can't jump up and make the play on it and maybe you're talking about a big game for Grim you know the third one right maybe a little bit earlier the one to Casey I mean that's just a ter that's just a you got to tip your hat to the Illinois player there because that's Jared Casey's block he should have and he doesn't and then the Illinois guy breaks on the ball and it's a pick six Jaylen can't do anything about that right from when he snaps the ball and sees it it looks like it should but then you know Casey just doesn't you're you're told to throw that thing if you have numbers and exactly and that's what it looked like right it looked the right way when the ball snapped so I think overall like look this is a performance that I'm like re not I'm like I'm a five out of 10 on my concern scale I'm like H that wasn't very good I don't know if I'm like panic button I'm not actually no I'm not I'm not even close to that it's just that was a bad game let's see how he does next week because theoretically you flush it you move on it's a new game you're building your confidence you're building your level and maybe he's able to do that next week I think too you know he's being asked and this goes into the game plan aspect of it probably and I don't know if we want to jump straight there but I I think he's being asked to throw some different concepts and things as well you know or or at least throw more of certain Concepts than he threw in the pass and so maybe before where he would have said hey you know Andy cotal nck he's had me throw this route 350 times I know exactly when to release it where to put it Etc you're throwing some stuff that maybe you aren't quite as comfortable with just because you haven't spent as much time throwing that I I think it was really interesting too because I I knew it and you knew it and we talked about it I feel like in the preseason and everything and and even back in the spring I feel like we talked about it the first time Kansas threw a scream pass on Third and long you knew that fans were just kind of going to erupt a little bit and and overall screen passes aren't a bad thing people are going to say oh my God I hate them it it's it's literally just something to pull guys out of the box right when when you've got a bunch of guys in the in the middle of the field that that can be tough to throw those routes sometimes when you've got a bunch of guys there it can be tough to run the ball sometimes when you've got a bunch of guys there and so you're a lot of times you're just trying to get guys to Chase and and move horizontally it didn't necessarily work out I think one of the areas that maybe I would have liked to see a little bit more was Kansas hammered Illinois a year ago in what I would call kind of that intermediate plus range you know where you're talking like 10 to 20 yards downfield where it's not quite a shot play but I feel like one Jaylen throws those really well I think two Luke grim and and LJ in particular that those are routes that they're really good at and creating separation at and so I think you know seeing a little bit more of that you know wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world but I I'm right there with you as far as panic mode for Jaylen I look at it now as guy had an off night like let's let's see if he comes back with this stuff against UNLV yeah exactly I totally agree and I think I'll use that point there Kevin a segue into the game plan topic because it felt like to me it was kind of we're going 20 plus yards down the field yeah or we going kind of five yards and under yep it felt like there maybe throughout the course of the game five six throws that were in that intermediate range right I think of a slant to LJ Arnold that's about a 10 yard slant there was a deep one to Skinner at one point um where he sat down and I think there was another and then obviously there's the interception to there was ball to LJ on the sidelines too that was kind of like the stop that um the stop that we saw the Skinner yeah and so it felt like there was maybe five six times out of the game and then outside of that it felt like home run ball home run ball screen pass yeah screen pass home run ball home run ball screen pass in terms of just like the the passing distances on this and I understand it you want to push the defense back and then take advantage of the space and then have them come forward then you try and hit over the top like I understand how you can explain that but you're right Kevin like last year in this game K really did have success on those intermediate routes right those routes where you're pushing back and then you sit because Illinois plays man coverage and so you want to have plays where you break so that you if you're a good route Runner you can create separation that way and it didn't feel like there was a ton of that there was a lot of go or fade kind of Concepts when it's going to come down to can you place the ball in the right spot and if your quarterback is not not having its best game with his accuracy having those types of plays a lot makes it a challenge and so it felt like for me like one of those where it's like man I can understand where you're coming from on this but the players aren't really executing so maybe let's pivot I don't know if you agree or not but that's kind of what I think about it yeah 100 perc and I think you know Grims is due for some disappointment because Andy cotal Nikki was a great offensive coordinator but even beyond that I think we can both admit maybe cotal Nikki's best game I I would say West Virginia was probably his best game in terms of them just absolutely shocking West Virginia with with the option to an extent that they just weren't expecting but he also kind of batted a thousand in that Illinois game last year that was maybe Peak Andy cotal Nikki and so you you when you're looking at it you're not thinking about hey what are the times when Andy cotal Nikki maybe struggled or the offense struggled you know when they went all those drives against Oklahoma State later in the game and didn't move the ball in game-winning situ you're not thinking about that right you're saying the previous guy tore this team up why aren't we tearing this guy team up now real quick Kevin like Andy cnick you had some stinkers yeah let's not make any two ways about this right Texas Tech I get that you have a quarterback issue you know or a quarterback substitution there but they had eight billion Red Zone opportunities against Texas Tech and yeah there were there were issues I'm just saying that this is a game that's so fresh in the mind of people with Andy codal Nikki because people were preparing for it this week and so they were watching the game last year and saying oh my gosh Andy codal Nikki you know just out schemed these guys and tore them up and I think that's that's one of the difficult Parts about the comparison where I thought there there could have been multiple pivots here and we we can definitely get into this one Kansas was winning up front they they were Devon Neil was running really well Daniel haaw was running pretty well there could have been a pivot where you just said you know what we're we're better than these guys let's line up and and knock down some bowling pins and and I feel like Kansas probably would have won this game if they made that pivot and and made it early enough I know there was that point their first drive in the fourth quarter you hand the ball off to Devon Neil he gets seven yards you take two shot plays on your next two plays and you wind up you wind up punting you know it's second and three you just ran for seven you haven't thrown the ball well all game that's a point where you can kind of pivot and say you know what let's let's start leaning on this running game a little bit to to get us home and I think the other part was you know maybe having the conversation with Jaylen and they may have where you say to him look you're trying to win this game in one throw you don't have to do that we if you manage this game this is a game that we can win and and Jaylen does well in those situations you look at like the BYU game last year where Kansas didn't necessarily throw the ball as well but Jaylen helped them win that game with the running game and everything down the stretch and I they were able to Pivot to the running game and hitting the angles with the running game if they had done that if they had had that conversation said look I get the you want to hit that deep ball I I get that you want to hit this it would be a huge momentum play or whatever we're going to win this by taking our layups and I thought that was that was the pivot that whether they whether they had the conversation whether they turned to the running game I felt like the pivot was kind of to say hey we've got a layup here let's stop shooting threes let's take our layups and come out of here with a win yeah the heat checks right and so I I found this really interesting Kevin this graph that I've got um I found a really good website over the summer that does some of this like Advanced analytics um and I'm still learning about it right so if fans know better like please by all means like let me know if I'm being an idiot here but really what this is saying is like expected points at it you know EPA right it's it's a measure of success and you can see in the game when the interceptions happen yep pretty pretty easy to see and you see in the middle here where there's that that big drop right before half half time yep and that's where the pick six happens but you can see how much KU was outperforming Illinois right you can see that gap between that little Peak before it goes down and where Illinois was at and you just see ku's defense right they had a struggle early on right with that that field goal drive for Illinois that they did get lucky on that wasn't a touchdown but then from there like the defense played well but then you can see the offense was building in the right direction right before halftime and then things cratered because throw a pick six obviously like that's going to be a huge swing but then you see early in the second half right things are going really really well until there's that interception and then you see where the two kind of three and outs happen at the end of the game before your final drive so I think this is a good way of illustrating right that ku's offense was doing some good things in this game it was not perfect it certainly was not perfect it left a lot to be desired but this was not a um zero out of 10 offensive performance there were some things that were going okay for KU this was not the most explosive game we've ever seen from KU this was not the most well executed game but there were K was doing enough to win and you can see that the interceptions came at just terrible times yeah right you think about one coming on your first drive of the game that's not a great tone Setter and then you've got a pick six before halftime and then you throw your third interception um right as you're looking to go and I think that would have been right as there looking to take a two-score lead and so it's it just the graph I feel like does a good job of of showcasing I think the way the game was trending and how those interceptions really impact it and look KU is a team where it can't win games if you're turning the ball over three times and you're losing the turnover margin by two it you're just it's gonna be so hard to win any football game against anybody in the Big 12 especially in a game like this when there are basically nine possessions you take out that final drive at the end of the first half where it's a run and that's it and you take away the drive at the end which is just Hail Mary's like there were nine drives in this game and you got to maximize those opportunities you can't score three times on nine drives you're just not going to do much and so for me like offensively not good for KU um broadly I think there are some things KU did well like you mentioned Kevin the the offensive line played really well you know I thought the front five created some running Lanes I thought Devon Neil looks liable to go take it to the house every time he touched the ball Daniel haaw looked good it's just the important part of passing the dang football and doing it effectively and efficiently that it felt like things just weren't right well I I think that's the other part of the the Grimes discussion that everybody wants to have because I think it is it is really easy to to sit there and say you know do the Sandra Bullock thing run the dang ball or whatever and and just say that those were where all the issues occurred and if only they called it different it would have been 100% different I I think you you look at some of the other things not just the interceptions but some of the other mistakes you know you had the hold on the long jayen run um by Bryce cable Dow you know that that kind of brought that back you had the uh you had the reverse set up for Quinton Skinner oh and you don't catch the pit I mean that thing was set up extremely well and so at the end you look at it you say oh my gosh 327 yards you talked about the screen pass you know you make your block there when you have numbers you know I'm not saying that would have gone to the house but you have a fairly decent percentage of having a successful play there and so I I think as fans people want to look at it all the time and say oh my gosh it was awful everything is awful and I think when coaches look at the film and when they look at it with the players they're going to say hey man you make this this is a successful play you hold on to this ball this is successful play exactly you don't lunge at this guy and hold him it's a successful play and just like that all of a sudden you're talking about 400 plus yards you're talking about a win and that's even with you know them having the issues that that they did you don't turn the ball over and and we bring this game up I feel like all the time but I feel like it's because it's such a great look into who Lance lipold is after they lost that game to TCU when college game day was there and everything everybody thought Lance lipold was going to be moral Victory it's so great for us to be here I mean KU hadn't won five games in a row you know since the Nixon administrator not actually but it it feels that way and what what did he say at the press conference he basically said if we had played cleaner we would have won this football game and you look at this game that Kansas just lost and if you're wondering what Lance Li hold's message was going to be to the players it's probably going to be look we're not good enough to win a football game where we're not clean where we make too many mistakes and that was what happened and I love that that's something that Devon Neil talked about two post game is the fact that he felt like this is the game that will light a fire right you go you have all this hype in the preseason right you're having a good camp it was a clean camp for KU you go into lyndenwood you take care of them and then you feel like we're going to Illinois beat these guys last year we got this and this is one of those moments I think you're right that maybe for this team will be the moment that is a okay like here's a good example Kevin right I I I I think that this is probably good context too right Oklahoma State went to the Big 12 title game last year right I'm not you know yeah they did right you know what else happened they lost South Alabama they got crushed by South like they looked awful you know what happened they got better and they figured it out like yeah KU can still go on and have a good season what has to happen is they gotta figure out the passing game you can't turn the ball over and you got to make sure that you play clean defense and if they do that they can still go accomplish the things that are in front of them and if you want to say the season's over I mean fine you can say that but it's not accurate yeah as far as I'm right last time I checked Kevin they've not played a big 12 game yet now are they going to go and win the Big 12 playing like they played yesterday heck no but they've got time to improve that's what Illinois or that's what UNLV week's going to show that's what West Virginia week is going to show if they go and improve and week to week are able to take care of the football play good defense not mess up on special teams they're going to be in a lot of games and they all have the chance to win a lot of games this team still has talent and it's going to come down to I think finding the right Concepts that work for everybody finding the right blend of attacking and also I think controlling the game and just just playing sound football and so the season's not over and I feel like that's just such an overreaction that I don't know if you feel that way fine but I just kind of roll my eyes at it because it's way too overdramatic oh yeah yeah I don't think there's there's any doubt about that and I'm glad you brought up the Oklahoma State example and that that was a team that kind of all along Gundy had praised for their maturity right they lost eight billion dudes to the transfer portal gy and Gundy was kind of like good riddens because he he felt like they had gotten rid of a lot I don't want to call them Bad actors necessarily but he felt like the group that he had was was a group that had the ability to kind of rally around Kansas has 30 seniors like th this is the group that you want to have where they can go in the locker room and say look like we got to refocus this thing if you have leadership on this team this is going to be where it's going to show and I I think the kind of another interesting thing about it was you know Oklahoma State kind of bound olly Gordon Kansas doesn't need to find Devin Neil or Daniel haaw they know where they're at and and even beyond that I think it helps your margin for error so much when you're better than people UPF front and if you want to take one positive away from the Illinois game it was that on both sides of the ball Kansas's front was better than Illinois was I thought the defensive tackles were great hey welcome back Caleb Taylor you know Cornell wheeler was fantastic in that linebacking group I think we all kind of wondered I don't want to say how he was going to be because he had played before but stepping into that Rich Miller kind of leadership role getting guys aine pointing guys around it and then how's the play going to be with that and my gosh SW we talked about it in the pre season when we said okay which guy on the team that's not currently kind of a preseason all Big 12 guy has a chance to be that guy I think we all circled Marvin Grant with about five exclamation points and Marvin Grant was one of the best players on the football field yesterday I Marvin played awesome that was really cool to see like seeing a guy that's put in it's cool to see when a guy is put in a role that is so to me like made for his skill set and allowing him to go out there and play and play well like for me when I thought of like when I watched Marvin Grant's tape from Purdue when he first came to KU I think the player we saw yesterday is the player I saw on tape yeah the guy that has the ability to roam around make plays come off the edge Blitz you know go cover in space a little bit too like I just thought he he really looked apart and that was super encouraging I think the front seven generally Kevin like yeah okay Illinois is low offensively and they try to be physical and Illinois's offense if it played in the Big 12 would probably be bottom half yeah I think it'd be better than like Baylor Cincinnati like that type of team but I think it'd be a bottom half right Franklin incredible wide receiver um I thought Bryant looked pretty good alt Meers is a would be a middle- of the road quarterback in the Big 12 y but for ku's defense to show up physically against that Illinois offensive line and Tackle Kaden Fagen the way they did the 63 250 Beast that is Kaden Fagan like that's all really encouraging Kevin and we talk about this defense improving year over year well what so here I think this a really good way to look at it Kevin so in 2022 KU like just showed that it can be competent defensively like it's gonna give up game there'll be games that give up a lot of points but like they did a pretty good job of just not getting walked over every single Drive of every single game last year we saw the defense take a step forward on the defensive line Austin Booker H keys Devin Phillips Tommy Dunn DJ Withers those guys improved and obviously Jeremy got better this year what you're seeing is those D tackles have now improved they've taken another step you've got Jeremy Robinson his senior year Dylan woodkey I thought really showed up he did the defensive line I think looks good does it have the star Austin Booker player no probably not but it's got some solid players along the front that can hold their own and the evolution now has come at the linebacker position where where Marvin Grant has replaced Craig young right athletically Craig probably like an A+ Marvin's probably a B+ I'd say um but Marvin offers you that physicality of a linebacker that I think Craig young always felt more like a safety um and then you look at someone like Cornell wheeler who's got some of that same feel as Rich Miller had for the game but is just a way better athlete and now KU is playing this look where it is really a 42 with then Marvin Grant playing as that kind of hybrid role and just everyone's in positions where they can go and make plays and run to the ball and there's athleticism and that is such an encouraging part of this for ku's defense is is that constant Improvement and now you look at you're like defensive line has the athletes KU looks for linebacker has the athletes KU looks for and you see the secondary and it's guys that you've seen at KU improve year-over Year and have done it so I am very encouraged by this defense I think there's still another level I think UNLV is going to PO some questions for KU in that defense and we'll see how they answer that I'm not ready to say hey this defense is gonna be really good or it's gonna be as good as last year what I'm saying is the pieces look like they have improved year-over-year which leads me to believe that there is a chance that this defense can be good this year is it gonna be great is it gonna be like holding teams 10 15 points every game we under 21 points every game no I'm not expecting that but can this be better um and more equipped to I think be more consistent this year yes you're seeing a lot more people at the ball right I mean that was something that two years ago 2022 even if they got a guy on the ground a lot of times it was one guy like having to make tackle in space or or it was a big play whereas now you think about the the forced fumble you know Marvin Grant hits a guy high and then Cornell Wheeler's there to to force the fumble then you have you know Jeremy Robinson right they're you know ready to to kind of hop on the ball as well and so they're able to get to where they need to go I I like the the discussion of Craig young versus Marvin Grant because I think Craig Young's athleticism allowed him to be invisible and what I mean by that is you never looked at him and felt like this guy's out of place he's out of position he's getting burned right he he kind of he he kind of took a pipe that was pouring water and you had like the the guy put the the slap stuff on there to so it's not leaking anymore well Marvin Grant just chops the damn pipe in half like he he's got the instincts and so he's a lot more playmaker at that spot it's not that he's necessarily hey I'm gonna cover a slot and the slot's not going to burn us for a 100 yards so you're gonna feel like I did my job it's that Marvin's gonna make tackles on the sideline he's G to sack the quarterback when you send him on a blitz he he's going to give them a lot more of that playmaking aspect and I I I feel like I I brought this up already but the defensive tackles I mean I don't know what Jim panagos makes but but it should probably be more than than whatever he's making right now in terms of the where those guys came in and the way that they they continue to to grow and develop DJ Warner not a defensive tackle but had alt Meer in his grasp was that close to his first career sack and so the defensive lines coming along pretty well I I think Swain Illinois a team that you know wanted to run the ball has a 250 pound running back they ran for 79 yards at 2.3 yards per carry I think if you would have said that to us when we were meeting for Media stuff last week hey Illinois is gonna run for under 80 yards and their average 2.3 yards for carry I think we would have had Kansas not just in a win but in a blowout I mean I I thought that they they took care of business really well and to your point Illinois's system is so different than what you typically see in the Big 12 and so people are going to spread Kansas out more they're going to do things where Kansas isn't allowed to get five guys at at the ball the way that Illinois does where it's more of a test of your manhood or whatever in terms of the physicality you play with I I really think that this is maybe a team that's a little bit better equipped in the Big 12 just because they run a lot better and I think they're going to be better up front than they have been in previous years as well exactly and and can you play that physical if you play that physical level with the athletes KU looks to have in the Big 12 that's a good recipe right because not every Big 12 offensive line is going to be as physical as you know West Virg or not West Virginia I was thinking West Virginia offensive line that's not going to be as physical as Illinois right I think like West Virginia I watched some of BYU oh my gosh like o Baylor oh Baylor cam Rising was out for most of that game and so Baylor had the the whole thing right there and just could not do anything offensively exactly so it's one of those things where for K you're like you're looking at it and you're like okay like they can do some things now I think you look at this game and there's some plays where you got to tip your hat to Illinois I think right like the catch where Franklin's got like Demaryius McGee like push like this or I gu this and goes like grabs like that like I don't know what you're supposed to do there like I mean de like maybe Demaris be like a little closer but like he's getting stiff armed on one hand and then he's guys making a great play and so like some of those plays for the defensive backs it's like yeah like you're playing a hard position and playing Corner you're gonna give up some plays every once in a while and I don't know if you can really blame him on that so I think for KU like positives for this game Kevin defense y looked pretty good physically offensive excuse me offensive line looked good Devon Neil confirmed still good at football um maybe should have gotten more touches y definitely should have gotten more touches I think he he and Daniel haaw had 21 combined and with the way that Devon was running Devon probably should have had at least that himself if not even a couple more than that but it it is and the other part of that too Swain coaches love nothing more more than to talk about complimentary football right and so when you're in that game your defense is playing like that I think you start to feel like okay the defense is doing its job we need to keep those guys fresh how do you keep guys fresh you run the ball and take a while too and so the complimentary football aspect was maybe just a little bit off as well yeah exactly exactly um I'm curious Kevin like what's your Vibe right now on KU like are are you like do you feel like this is a game where you are left with more questions than answers more answers than questions how do you feel just about KU as a team right now yeah I I think you've got it's kind of funny I I think you've got more answers than questions and it's kind of funny because people were getting on on Grimes for for not running the ball enough and I kind of made the joke I think last night that if you want an offensive coordinator who wants to run the ball like Jeff Grimes is the dude for you like if you talk to people at Baylor you talk to people at BYU I I'm sure that oh man we threw the ball too much is not a complaint that Jeff Grimes heard a whole heck of a lot and so my joke with that is just to say if this winds up being a jayen thing and it turns out hey jaylen's just rusty because he hasn't he hasn't played in a while it's going to take him a little little while to become the Jaylen Daniels that that we all know and love Jeff Grimes is kind of the OC that you want for that because he's not going to have any any problem I don't think forcing the passing game to be there I if it's not there and so I think from that perspective I'm maybe a little bit more positive than than other people are and that I feel like if it does become a team where hey this offense needs to be Devon Neil and Daniel highshaw carrying the ball times a game I feel like Jeff Grimes isn't the worst guy for that I I think that that's something he would be very comfortable with the defense I think I'm really you know high on you know like you said it's not that I think they're going to be a shutdown defense it's not that I think they're going to be but I do think that against certain teams they're they're going to be really tough to to move the ball on it and I think even beyond that there aren't a whole lot of teams on the schedule that you look at ku's defense and you just say man I I do not like that matchup for for that defense with especially think about like back into like 2022 when we would talk about teams that would go uptempo like Oklahoma and people like that where you were like you knew going in oh my gosh this is this is going to be a problem there aren't a whole lot of teams offensively in the Big 12 that are on Kansas's schedule that I look at and feel like oh man like I I'm not in love with that against against Kansas the other thing is look we came into the season feeling like the biggest question mark was on the offensive line you know based on comments based on the fact that they still had position battles there whereas pretty much the rest of the offense was set right and so I I felt like that was a great step in the right direction Jaylen Daniels had time to throw they protected well as well as running the ball and so I do think that there are more positives than negatives I think you want to see the leadership now in terms of how they come out against UNLV and I think for right now it's the sort of thing where I'm going to chalk up Jaylen daniels's performance to a bad night whereas if we're sitting here post West Virginia Kansas has lost one of the next two and Jaylen has continued to look like that I think that that's that's maybe the point where you start to really have those questions and say okay you know where do things need to proceed yeah I think I agree Kevin um I forgot to someone asked me to answer this on the message board um so I'm sure you saw the Jeff Grimes discourse I don't know if you can call even discourse um so why did KU call the game the way they did so if you go back and and and watch um Illinois has always been kind of a 34 that plays as kind of like a 51 52 something times well this this game Illinois switched between going from that fiveman front to then playing a 4-3 where then they were playing with four down linemen and three linebackers and so basically they kept seven guys in the Box especially at the start of a drive or on running downs and if you're you know I'm not a math expert Kevin as I think people have learned at this point I'm not great at math but KU runs a lot of 11 personnel y right one tight end one running back if you have one tight end along the line of scrimmage that's six if the other team has seven in the box that means you're outnumbered by one and if Illinois is going to play one-on-one coverage on the outside because if they are playing 43 and you've got 11 personnel that means you got through three wide receivers out which means they're going to have three guys covering one deep safety so what are you going to do you're going to try and attack because that one deep safety has to cover yeah again math here how how wide's the field however wide the field is so you're going to try and attack that and so that's what KU tried to do I think on early Downs was to try and soften that box get Illinois to play two high safeties get them to transition to playing cover three then where maybe they got you know the safety and then they've got two corners dropping deep and then you can get to the outside Zone stuff because those Corners are moving back and they can't come set yet like so there're just certain things that I think early in that game Illinois showed where then KU is saying okay well if you're giving us this let's try try and exploit it and then if your quarterback is having a bad game where he isn't super accurate and super crisp it's hard to take advantage of that so I think that for me at least when I looked at when I was rewatching the game and some specific Clips like that to me looked like why KU was going to the game plan it was because Illinois was really trying to load the box to make KU try and beat it deep and try and beat it with some of those Concepts and and just KU couldn't and a credit to the offensive line that even in some of those loaded box situations they're still able to find ways to create creases um but I think from a broad perspective like when I look at the game plan I think that is my explanation that's the best I can do I'm sure we'll talk to Jeff Grimes bet on on Tuesday but here sitting at you know whatever time on on Sunday night like that's kind of my read on it yeah I agree with that and and it's it's so easy to sit in a chair while the game's going on and say why are they calling this versus why are they calling that and there's multiple answers to that question and you know and I'm not saying Grimes is perfect I you heard me say earlier in the episode I thought that at some point they should have pivoted and and should have basically lined up and and said hey the ball 25 times and and gone with that I also think you go into a game with certain expectations for how you're going to attack certain things that's what you practiced all week those are the things that you've drilled on and I'm not saying that you can't adjust but what I am saying is there's a feeling out period then like you're saying a lot of times the opponent will show you something a little bit different than what they had shown in the first game especially when your first game's against Eastern Illinois and so you look at it and you say well here's our adjustment to their adjustment but if for whatever reason especially like he said if your quarterback isn't playing well things that seem like easy money that that feel like okay if they're going to show this we're going to hit him with it and that's that's going to be all she wrote yeah I think that's a big part of it I also think too we we maybe don't give enough credit to Illinois and I realized Illinois didn't play you know super well offensively or whatever else Illinois I thought was better at defensive back spots yeah than they were a year ago I I felt like last year Kansas was kind of running free all all over the place you know and it wasn't like that this year the the spaces were smaller guys were were more attached in coverage and all of those things and I think that matters too yeah exactly I think you're right and this I'm gonna talking to Jeremy right in for our podcast midweek he mentioned that those guys are a year older now they've had a year of experience because this time last year they just lost guys to the NFL draft Yeah legit guys and at defensive back and they were having new guys being brought in and now those guys are seconde starters now I also say this you mentioned West Virginia 2022 well K you had a full offseason prep for that right we didn't see any of that against Tennessee Tech yes Tennessee Tech was that year and then all of a sudden KU comes out with that and you're like what the heck well what do you think Illinois spent all offseason looking at how the heck can we create some confusion for KU like belma talked about Lance talked about it like KU clowned them last year and Aaron Henry talked about the defensive coordinator for Illinois he watched the game a 100 times you know nobody likes being clowned right every these coaches have pride and so what are you going to do all offseason you're going to go and work your butt off to try and make sure that when you play that team again you show them What You're Made Of and that's what Illinois did and I'm sure they spent a lot of time in their Camp working on some of these wrinkles not only for Kansas right this isn't saying like this was Illinois Super Bowl but so maybe this year they've got more wrinkles to throw at teams and Kansas is the team that maybe asked questions of your defense and the scheme you were using last year now you think okay these are the tweaks we can do to have more success this year and so like lold said Illinois is a program with a lot of Pride they don't like the way last year PL panned out you can see that in the player quotes from Illinois this week you can see it from the coach quotes this week this is a big game for them and they came out and played like it and ran out some new stuff which you'd expect um in a game that means a lot to a team so just I think those are kind of my final thoughts I don't know that that is one of my favorite moments of the lipold tenure though and the West Virginia DC gets asked about that you know after the game and he's just like look like we didn't see any of that you know how how do you expect us to come out and defend you know an option offense when you spend all offseason not preparing to face the option and then all of a sudden somebody turns into you know a military academy basically and right showing you all these different looks like you didn't prepare for that at all and obviously this wasn't to that extent but I do think to your point and it's a great point I I think Illinois is more versatile this year I mean they've got more experience on the back end I think you know Gabe AAS plays both that outside linebacker spot and he slides up to the defensive line so they can do some different things there whereas I thought last year they were kind of very regimented in what they did because guys before you can be versatile you got to learn one spot before you can learn two exactly so I I think that you know Illinois's defense probably does deserve some credit in the way that they play Kansas I I still think you know was it a game that Kansas should have won yes you know it's it's one of those I I remember you remember when Kansas lost to Michigan in the NCAA tournament with Trey Burke um at the time Jesse Newell who's now at the Kansas City Star wrote an article for the Journal World which is where he was at at the time and everybody hated it because it was it was like six months it was a while after the game and he basically said hey by the way in order for Kansas to lose that game these like eight things all had to go wrong if just one of them went ku's way they they win that game this felt a little bit like that right like it it felt like hey if you don't make this mistake if you don't throw this interception if if you don't the defense was so good SW there was a period in the fourth quarter they only gave up six third down conversions the whole game they gave up four of them in the in a in a row in the stretch in the fourth quarter and I'm not blaming the defense I'm just saying no if you make one of those plays if you you know if you don't drop the ball when you have a reverse totally set up if Jared Casey makes his block all all of these different things if one of those things goes a little bit differently then maybe we're having a very different conversation right now than we are exact well to Kevin I looked at this you know I'm pulling up the stats right here so I think it was yeah 11 minutes for the defense on the field in the fourth quarter yeah like I don't know what you expect right they're gonna wear down at some point you can't go play 15 straight minutes of football and you know K went what interception three and out three and out like that's not a lot of time for the defense to rest and that's something right with the Cy football aspect that you really need to you got to help out your defense Ink's offense just couldn't keep hold of the ball and and that's how something like that happens right your defense just is so good for so much of the game and then it runs out of gas because um you just you can't withstand that type of physical level for so long and you just saw the drop off and K tried to rotate late in the game you know right like Alex Wright came in I think Javier Derek came in for a minute just to try and spell some of those guys and they just couldn't and so it's you gotta play contary football right and that's for KU like ku's still at the point it has talented players but it does not have the overwhelming Talent where you can go turn the ball over three times have three three and outs and expect your team to still perform at a high level yeah yeah it's they're going to have a lot to to clean up I I don't want to say that uh that Lance Lio wanted this because obviously they they want to win and keep winning but I I do think that he's somebody that enjoys the coaching aspect of it in terms of being able to sit down with your guys and say Hey you know this is where we can clean things up this is where get better and and and Kansas still has a chance to be a really good football team this year especially if Jaylen bounces back from this and winds up being kind of more what what we're used to seeing this is going to be a really big week because I I think one it's going to challenge the defense more because UNLV is really good on offense but I think the flip side of that is is if UNLV winds up scoring quite a bit can Kansas keep Pace you know is it is the offense going to rebound to the extent that they can make those plays and I do think UNLV another team that the Kansas kind of embarrassed on defense a year ago in in that bowl game and they went out and landed about 35 SEC defensive backs it felt like in the portal and so they're they're hoping that that can solve at least one or two of those questions and so that's going to be kind of a fascinating game at at Children's Mercy Park this week that it is that it is all right Kevin I think that's what we got for this game plenty of thoughts next week on UNLV maybe potentially different type of vibe for a podcast I think fans hope for a much different vibe for a podcast but Kevin thanks as always for uh joining us on a Sunday thanks as always for listening to the f.net podcast you're watching this on YouTube make sure you're giving us those likes and you're subscribing to the channel you click the Bell so whenever we upload something right you see it in your email and always drop a comment as well help us with the old algorithm for you are listening on your preferred podcast platform of choice make sure you leave us ratings and reviews those always go a long way as well helping us reach new Kansas fans Kevin thank you for your time always appreciate it we'll back most likely with the midweek episode gotta find someone from UNLV to talk to that'll be an exciting time thanks as always for listening we'll talk to you all this week