NRL Champion | Kalyn Ponga | Mental Wellbeing, Leadership & Learning from Mistakes

[Music] hey uh what a special moment it is just wanted to kick off and say thanks so much I know you're really selective with your time and who you you know work with but huge honor man really really cool to have this moment we shot some content today and um also just the conversation we've been having in the leadup around how selective you are around who you align with and just say it's it's really special particularly for me someone who's obsessed with uh rugby uh league in this context and um yeah I've seen you obviously do amazing things on the field but then to just get to hang out and shoot the [ __ ] a bit has been really special so just wanted to kick off and say thanks man well thank you yeah I spoke about it a little bit and I said I was nervous which I still am but yeah I haven't really shared my story too much with too too many people I like to keep things pretty close um but um like the other podcast that I went on this one aligns with me very much so as well so thank you for having me on oh awesome man yeah and yeah what like I said too I'm also a bit nervous so um yeah let's just be ourselves and wherever we go we go and um whatever you feel comfortable sharing and yeah it's also just inviting a bit of fun and bantering play in that as well and um yeah just thought I'd begin man we we've got you know a bunch of listeners that you know are League supporters but also a bunch who to you know support AFL or or you know not even support um into sport generally would love to just kind of kick it back to early days what were the the origins for KP um I think early days I moved around a lot um for different reasons my dad's work he was in the mines so I was born in port Hedland moved to manisa moved to New Zealand moved back to Australia um maai Brisbane townsel now in Newcastle so I've moved around a lot yeah wow um one for family um but yeah mostly dad's work and then in high school it was all for I guess like um my different opportunities with footy and and rugby league and Rugby Union um but I guess back in New Zealand I was just surrounded by family um my dad's like one of 11 so wow yeah so i' had cousins everywhere I've got more cousins now that have come out the woodw Woodworks but um that was really what I grew up with was Family Sport um um and then my sister was born when I was about 12 or 13 so we moved back to Australia and yeah three different opportunities moved around how did you navigate uh social life like as you know Sports obviously a great tool to go in community and build friends and I know you played a lot of sports when you were young as well but how did that impact you as like a young not even a teenager moving around so much I was pretty lucky I think sport gives you the ability U to meet people that are like-minded have the same goal have the same interest so that's never really been an issue for me and it's something that um I've never been really scared of or afraid of is to go to a new place and meet new people and um experience new things obviously being a big part of my childhood that's probably the the way I am now is is I still have that uh mindset towards it all but um I loved it like I I've got friends from everywhere um that in different periods of my life you know they were my best friends and you move on and you grow up and you still talk to them though you still keep in contact with them but I think sport has always been a tool for me to to connect and um yeah I guess I connect with people yeah and the beautiful thing about sport when it's done well like doesn't matter your background where you come from like it's like it's this you know when it's done well equal playing field and you're just like in the teams of people who you're like I would just never hang out with you ever yeah but that's it like different schools you know Club teams outside you're all you're all there for the same reason um I think that's what sport was like that's why I loved it so much as a kid that's why you play the game is to to play with your friends and um you know sport was heavily involved in my life early and so were those connections with people yeah and how did your like I know your dad's been a big kind of pillar in your life how did your dad instill values for you when you particularly those younger years in particularly is like when you're talented and yeah there's so much seduction around you or to pull you out of like what's important how did you navigate that with your dad uh he's taught me everything my old man um like literally everything and then I can I can sort of look back now and um I understand why he did C certain things and the way I was disciplined and stuff like that and I think the main things he sort of preached was um like he'd always say love what you do um and I'll support you so if you wanted to go and play marbles or if you wanted to go and do dominoes or what whatever you wanted to do if you do it to 100% And you love what you do um he would support me I think that made me a passionate person which I think I am and he instilled passion in me um certain love for things hard work was always one um hard work and humility he'd never he'd never really tell me to go for a run or tell me to do this he'd sort of challenge me so it's have you been for a run today you you know what I mean he'd make that decision mine um humility was a big one always has been always will be never sort of getting ahead of yourself um and there was plenty of examples of when that happened remember when I scored my first try for um churchy and the way I celebrated was a little bit arrogant yeah um what did you do I just scored and got up and kind of looked like I was the man yeah and just a little thing like that um it it wasn't wasn't okay and and um he wasn't happy with that but a lot of respect people shaking people people's hands look at them in the eyes a lot of who I am today I definitely credit to my dad um his values like my family um yeah definitely I think that's the thing i' I've learned about like probably you know as a cheeky teenager who pushed the boundaries at times myself like when I got grilled by my parents and in this case like my dad it would be things like that were values orientated that I didn't necessarily understand at the time but then I eventually got to the point where I matured and I was like oh I'm so glad I got in trouble like that you know so my dad could just be like what are you doing like and just not from a like a place of shaming but just a place of like hey have a think about this how do you want to personally respond next time and that as you said before like getting us to think about it opposed to going you're like pointing the finger well that's how you the decisions or the choices you make from certain things is who what makes you who you are absolutely um my dad he was always my idol my role model the the person that I the hero in my life to be honest like he taught me he was my coach for soccer my coach for golf my coach for rugby coach for everything um instilled like great values in me that I you know I'm glad that he did and I'm definitely a product of my old man and um even now he's still very heavily involved in my life um and yeah he definitely steps outside the box a little bit sometimes it text me after a game and try and tell me how to play yeah which I don't think is in his realm anymore like maybe back in the day but yeah I know that everything that he does is out of the goodness of his heart and he just wants what's best for me um I think in this industry and the position that I'm in it's not always like that it's it's people want to see me do well for different reasons for if it benefits them or yeah whatever so he's him and my mom are probably the only two people that purely want me to succeed for me yeah which I think was nice like I'm lucky that I've got that oh man absolutely and you know with someone who with you is like such a profile but also people who are I can only imagine come to you wanting things like almost treating you like a a commodity or a brand opposed to a person yeah does that happen yeah definitely and that's why I've been so shut off to doing certain things in the past and definitely as a family I think we're like that we're very close family um due to certain things that have happened in the past don't really let to many too many people in yeah but also like I like to have a close like a small circle as well I think that's helped me be the person I am and get to where I am because I've got a close small circle that I rely on um but yeah definitely there's definitely a lot of times that people come to me for them yeah um and you just got to learn to say no and learn to weed out what's real and what's not yeah absolutely and one of the things I've kind of learned from watching it was actually it's a weird segue but I met Prince Harry through through our work and um have met him three times and um got an award from the queen in bucki and Palace which is a whole other story for another time but meeting like Prince Harry I was like well that guy just met me like it was his first time meeting someone ever and he was so present and so engaged and it was so genuine and then he's probably met about a thousand other people that day and it's that same level of like presence and just got me thinking like if he has an off day you know people remember that you know and then that becomes a story that gets sold to whoever to the media or whatever yeah has that like how do you navigate that I'm not Prince [Laughter] har in terms of when I meet people yeah yeah yeah yeah uh I think it's just in my nature to be quite um friendly and personable and um I definitely have my days as well um and depends on the environment that I'm in as well like I in really corporate environments I don't feel very comfortable so I almost am putting on like a facade but um like things like today I really enjoy and stepping out of my comfort zone a little bit but again I guess back to like what my dad taught me is just be respectful you know look people in the eye shake their hands say hello and off that you know you sort of you sort of settle in building but yeah I I I definitely need to get better with it um can get better with it and it depends on the environment that I'm in nice like I feel like in the footy world we do we do get exposed to a lot of yeah different events different things a lot of people I'm no good with names um but yeah I guess having those values of just being respectful helps yeah absolutely I saw it today you know you walked in said hi to everyone on the set and yeah man it's inspiring because we see so many different types of personalities Talent players Etc and then just to watch how you just went about it so quietly so humbly was like I just saw what you just said in action so yeah it was I was like this guy's a dude he's on itude um man so if we go back a little bit you you come over to Australia you've played multiple Sports am I right in understanding you played quite a bit of golf too when you were younger golf yeah um I was thinking about this today like golf was my main sport coming over to Australia and then again through meeting friends and whatnot um transitioned and channeled into rugby league then through an played Union but always always like touch rby League Union golf that were my main sports um again yeah just just played everything just was someone that loved sport um my parents gave me every opportunity to play every sport and then yeah obviously growing up in Queensland rugby league's culture there so I'm glad I did I'm glad that I stuck with rugby league and have stuck with it for so long there was definitely other opportunities but I'm I'm happy where I am now for sure nice and you made your debut at Cowboys Cowboys 18 18 uh I think I remember the game actually that run down the final yeah um things happen so fast when you're a kid when you're 17 18 19 20 um I found out that debut that I was debuting the night before or two days before um happened so quick I don't I didn't really understand what I was doing I think at that age what I was walking into elimination final the team had been through 24 rounds to get to that and I just come in and play this elimination final win go on to next week and we lose and I probably just thought that's how that's how it was that's your entree into this yeah yeah this is easy like this is this is easy and then that next year um I only played six games yeah and I probably got a little bit frustrated yeah probably thought I was ahead of where I was physically and and mentally yeah um Cy was the fullback at that time and he's a he's a freak like the career that he had um but I was just the kid that wanted more and yeah um so that's why I signed with kns because I wanted to I didn't want to wait behind people and um hope that I was going to get an opportunity I wanted to do it myself learn myself learn the hard way yeah and then so I went to the knights when I was 19 in 2018 yeah so and then that year was just like a whole another story and yeah um 20 2018 when I went there I was 19 turning 20 or yeah and that was probably the most successful year apart from last year that I've had I was 19 I think I um I was Delan runner up that year and everything was happening so easy like I was playing great footy I was going out every weekend um and I just probably wasn't living the life of a real professional athlete yeah um I probably thought things happen so easily because I have for the last two or three years and I reckon that set me up for a negative or bad couple years after that yeah probably fell into a little bit of success syndrome um I got complacent I thought things were going to happen but I learn I've learned from that period like 2019 probably wasn't my best season 2020 wasn't 2021 getting there and then probably the last couple years I've been happy with but yeah yeah when when you're living a life like that that's not sustainable and then you you develop this mindset that it's easy you can I look back and I can understand why I went through that not that I'm proud of it but now that I'm older um I can definitely acknowledge that that was my mindset yeah well and I think that takes again levels of humility and honesty to look back and go actually I behave like that and I understand why and now I've learned from it and this is who I am and I think yeah to your point of like the last few years it seems like you've really implemented those lessons and also like you know we're just talking about it uh offline like you had a lot of projects on too at that point in time like you're doing a lot of things and being a kid yeah totally you've got all this like stuff coming at you for then you to be like yeah sure I'll get involved and then you get a little bit more Discerning um as you mature through the ranks you you learned where to prioritize your energy which I think's been a big thing for me these last couple years but when you're 90 2021 you start a clothing brand here yeah start another one over there fail fail start a podcast fail yeah um and that's just a part of being that age I think but now that I'm like I'm older I'm 26 again I just try and focus my energy on what's important or what I think works for me yeah um and that's again I've learned that over years yeah absolutely if I knew that when I was 20 like well that's all part of it isn't it it's like tasting you know all the different flavors of the buffet realizing what you want to go back for seconds for exactly yeah you you grow up you learn from your mistakes and yeah I think I've done that now I've done a fair bit of that continuing continuing to do that too like I'm sure I'll make a few more but absolutely learn from them and so maybe let's just like go down that a little bit what what are some of the tougher times or you've had to navigate and and the reason I asked this I think is because I really want to lose the the buffer of like athletes of these like polished perfect human beings it's like no you're living this life trying to navigate how to get through and weave through just like everybody else but what would you say were some of like the tougher times where you've learned the most in my career yeah um and and your life if if that resonates I think career-wise there was a did something a couple years ago um I think the the accident itself it was it is what it is but I think my mindset was what let me down I think I forgot my responsibilities I forgot or I was or I was arrogant and didn't appreciate or didn't value my responsibilities yeah um and that that end like that resulted in me putting myself in a bad position which then I've now affects more than just me like what I did in that period which was 2022 um you know I got I did I got video that I was walking out of a toilet and yeah I think I just yeah forgot my responsibilities for you know for a second and um put the team and the the club and my teammates probably Under Fire more than it did me and it affected them and affected my family and I definitely learned from that period yeah um I'm glad like I'm not glad that it happened what you learn from those for sure yeah and I think it's like if it didn't hurt so much you wouldn't know all the things that you know now that you would never do again and sometimes it takes us kind of face planning to work it out definitely um and because someone can tell you that lesson but until you live it well yeah Mitchell Pierce who's yeah we all know has been in the media quite a bit youd look at he what he's been through and you wouldn't you don't really understand and that I haven't been what he's been through on a full scale but I got a taste of it um and I definitely learned from that that experience so that's probably one were the most that was probably the darkest few couple months that I've had in my career yeah um another one was when I got concussed and I was looking at retirement yeah that was a scary one that was a scary moment for me in my life you know and in my career professional career um just yeah cuz that was a number of concussions in the season right I had I had a few back Tob backs I had like four or five right yeah then I had to have a rest and then game two of that next season I had a real bad one yeah that's right um now yeah that period was scary obviously being faced with having to retire yeah um and I think just the media pressure that was on me and my family and the doctor was like a lot of people were calling for me to retire yeah which it's funny how when something like that happened everyone's a like a neuros scientist or what it's called expert armchair experts Everyone's an expert apparently so that was scary I mean just sitting down with my parents the reality was I go to Canada and there's two options I retire or I come back and I can play WoW so that was um that was pretty scary that's full on man because it's not only career orientated it's life Orient life it's I think look about like I look at my life and what I've worked so hard to do is yeah you know when you're a kid you just dream and aspire to be a professional player for me in any sport then now that I'm in it my dream and goal is to you know win a comp yeah this is so if that got taken away from me it would have to be like this whole new identity like who what's my purpose who am I like absolutely where do I find um I don't know like my my happiness or fulfillment fulfillment yeah that's what I was like where do I find that and I say I say when I was in that position I was saying I'll be fine um I'm not someone that will just lounge around but until you're in that position you don't really know yeah so that was the reality that I was facing at that point in time and did you have support around you like where you can actually talk about this or my mom and dad my best friend and were you open with them or was it something you kind of internalized a bit no I was definitely open with my mom and dad yeah and my best friend yeah um those three people probably the only like even in different situations in life yeah are the ones that I've told everything to tell everything to and trust and and value their opinion yeah um so yeah they definitely know how I was feeling through that period um and that was a that was like a 3 we four we period um but got to Canada got the all clear um did some tests met everyone over there and and came back with a lot of reassurance and positivity and confidence that I could play again and then you yeah go on this run and have a good year but those two those two moments are probably the biggest and then in my life um my brother passed away when I was young oh wow so he he he um he drowned actually in like a sewage tank when I was six or seven okay so that has had a massive impact on our family and probably explains why we are the way we are in terms of how close how supportive um how loyal we are as a family yeah and um and how old was he man he was 18 months 18 months yeah so he passed away which is yeah pretty tough and do you remember that time I do I was about seven um that was why we moved back to New Zealand yeah oh cool and yeah look at the way my mom and dad handled it I don't I wouldn't I I knew what was going on but I don't think I understood fully well I wouldn't have the the effect the impact it had on them yeah um but that probably explains like why they just did everything they could for me and gave me every opportunity they they could for me to you know achieve my goals and um be in a position to to to thrive and and to succeed I guess and then my sister was born and then she said she came along and the whole world changed in a good way but um yeah that was probably what but in my personal life as one of the bigger ones yeah oh and I just think this first of all thanks for sharing that I know it's deeply personal so thank you and also just to listen to how your family navigated was go back to community to family back to family back to the roots and be around that for however long it takes and as you said no wonder they've um you know protective of you particularly you know your dad still yeah and just you I think it one of the tragic things is like they say often it takes a tragedy for us to unite and it's like until something happens we don't really wake up I'm like wow what's actually important to us we've said that before like it's unfortunate the reason why you get everyone together is usually for a funeral or exactly a bad something bad to happen we've had a few of those in our family and my uncles and aunties and cousins and that's the reason why everyone gets together yeah you know I know otherwise you you don't really get everyone together for a birthday or yeah it's something TR not as important yeah so so it is unfortunate that's that's the reason why but um we've learned a lot we are the way we are because of that yeah um so yeah and do you think for you that's changed your like obviously it happened when you're younger but it's such a pivotal part of your story do you think that's changed how you move through the world yeah I think so um um like I'm very everything will be okay everything will be fine not much really phases me yeah feel like when you go through such a tragedy like that now everything that happens isn't really that bad um yeah which is I think a good way of looking at it um because that was such a like I don't know if it gets any worse in that way for sure um but yeah so now when I look at things it's not really that bad like I'm pretty grateful um but yeah definitely it's definitely shaped who like our family and you know this my mom my dad my sister's definitely showed to we are yeah I think it puts so much in perspective right it's like and you know I really come from this belief system of like life is despite the tragedies or adversities like life is happening for us not to us so if we come from that point of view it's like everything is a part of it and I can navigate the harder times knowing as tragic as they are you know we'll come together we'll grow we'll be better you know and stronger and just unfortunately how this random life we're in is designed is sometimes the hardest times that are the most potent teachers yeah un it is unfortunate yeah and um you've also like quite we were kind of talking about this at the K before like we're in a time now where players like yourselves are way more of an individual than like ever before it's like I think it's amazing right you see the unique personalities and you know you're interested in culture and like photography fashion brands um how has that played out in like being you know having a profile but also being this individual where you've got all these different hobbies and things you like getting into how do you how do you navigate that um I think when I was young I just I was young like I was young and I I'm quite a curious person I guess um I enjoy doing different things and seeing what gives me joy whether and it's more around that creative side of stuff um I was I've been exposed to social media for so long so I guess I sort of know how to like you say navigate that um I know what my brand is the only thing that probably annoyed me or it's it's okay now but back probably when I was younger like 20 21 22 because my off field was never really about footy I've never posted all that much about footy and the perception was that I don't really care about footy oh so that that would annoy me cuz it's like well I'm K and pong of the person first totally and then you know I play footy I love what I do I'm very dedicated and committed but I also have a life and if you want to watch me play footy watch TV but if you want to watch me do other stuff follow me on social media that became the perception for a little while you know people were saying like do you really care and when they' meet me because of my like Persona and how I am they would be like oh he doesn't really care but that so that that annoyed me that did that did annoy me for a little bit but I think everyone knows how dedicated I am now um but I just do things that I enjoy yeah and and I post things that I enjoy um and I think the new day and age the new athletes coming through who are expressing themselves more yeah know you can have you are a person first and that's what social media is for it's it's a tool to be able to show that um but it's definitely growing in Australia there's still like we're talking about it the T po tall poppy syndrome yeah which is still there it's always going to be there I feel um but you need to express yourself like it's it brings character to the game it brings excitement yeah um and yeah I guess when I was young I just didn't really care I just did what I wanted which is you know you tie that to like masculinity as well it's like men have lived this very narrow confine like the script of being a man has been like so like tight it's like especially in our sport particularly in rugby league like be tough be show no emotion tackle the biggest guy on the field get concussed get up and keep playing play the Grand Final with a broken arm you know it's like be tough be stronger and then you know you people leading the charge like you is like leading with like individuality expression authentic auth authentic which is something that I really do try and yeah push but yeah definitely I'm not afraid to I'm not soft but I I'm not and it's not I'm not I'm not perceived as soft you know a lot of the other things outside of sport that I do doesn't align with being tough and like I enjoy painting and and I enjoy taking photos and that sort of stuff and I've never cared like what people think and like theyve seen the way I play footy they it doesn't really matter I don't think and but it is it's I think it's definitely changing we had this conversation it's a sport is changing rugby league players are are driving it um you look at like Hines you know and what he's doing big time he's definitely opening up the conversation and I think it goes a long way in performance as well is being open being who you are having those conversations and I've always pushed it I've never really pushed the conversation I guess but I've always pushed like doing whatever is you being who you are and being like that and being that off the field which is like you can't like I know you're just living it doing you but like the impact the ripple effect on what that does for the next generation of like you know in this context boys and young men who are watching you know an icon of their as a role model there is actually Express themselves you know be authentic but also be vulnerable that just gives permission for a whole generation that they can do the same yeah which is pretty special man because we probably grew up with like you know the schoolyard don't be gay don't be a girl you know toughen up mate and then it just it was so constricting you know and yet this like I remember N I did some art project and my best mate was like that's a bit gay mate and I was like well I'm dropping art you know and now I'm on this journey back to like reclaim my creativity back and even with like stuff that matters it's like finding ways to like bring in art and culture back in and yeah I just think like to your point like you having this Avenue of just being authentically expressed is so important also for as you were saying for your mental health as well and coming back to what you said earlier like your more than a player and like you're more than a win and you're definitely more than a loss yeah I've I've struggled with that in the past yeah um and yeah I've definitely struggled with that there was a couple years that where like that was um I would get tired down in the 80 minutes on the field yeah and and value myself off that yeah and whether I won when I was younger I didn't because it's not I didn't care but I had this outside life yeah right so I I was I was the person that played footy and as long as I worked hard during the week that didn't affect me but then as you get older you get scars you know social uh like media put pressure on you you maybe you've had a few bad years of playing you get scars and then that 80 minutes does sort of become your your source of value it's how you see yourself and I struggled with that a little bit I think newcastle's a a small town so they definitely um expect you to win and and whatnot like if we won I'd be down the beach coffee in hands walking around if we lose I'm probably not leaving the house at next morning so wow but it's just it's again the work that I did with um a mental health like a mental coach yeah you're a person first yeah like it shouldn't matter what happens in that 80 minutes yeah you're still a person like and that's I think that's why I'm really at peace now because I understand that yeah it's huge isn't it it's like even it's like attach identity to Performance and so like I win I my happiness goes up I lose my happiness goes down but like you're still the same person yeah exactly exactly but it's it's like this trick isn't it though it's like and we're so it's almost like we're I think we are like neurologically wide to remember the negative challenging things the most which I think must come from like some survival psychology of like being out in the jungle right and you're like okay if I make one mistake I'll get eaten yeah so it's like there's something in our wiring there that you know I'm sure for your career some incredible successes you know but then also you've probably got some really tough times that are equally as loud in the head noise Department definitely like we spoke about a couple of those things um but I've never really been driven by running away from things it's more running towards more chasing what do you mean by that um like I don't really my my my drive isn't to prove people wrong yeah um it's never he said this about me so I want to do this it's more I sort of know in my mind where I want to be and what I want to do and I have since I've been young and that's always been my drive so in terms of like fears and negative moments yes whilst I've learned from them they're not my driving Source yeah it's more I want to prove my family proud or myself proud and um yeah that's always been my driving force throughout my career I think that's the way know because they say that like those who this is like the high performance dilemma it's interesting yeah in people who have pain as a motivator it's like a finite resource So eventually if you achieve the thing you want to achieve it's not going to be enough and that's kind of like yeah and also it's like the goalpost keep moving so you suddenly got to keep going my old M all the time right he loves that say yeah it's true and that's why it's like you know you talk about extrinsic motivation which is like outside of ourselves vers intrinsic motivation which is inside of ourselves it's like I want to make my family proud you know I want to be happy with how I played the game opposed to the outcome of the game you know they say like fall in love with the process opposed to the outcome it's like these are all the like secret breadcrumbs of like happiness and fulfillment not just like material success that's so transient you know you can get definitely get caught up in that though for sure well how how do you navigate that because it's so seductive yeah it is it is it is just a again P back to that perception of what I was like was like like why is he doing it like why does he does he care about the game um and I guess going through that period now I do 100% know that it's not it's not about all that sort of stuff like it definitely comes with it um but the satisfaction you get emotionally outweighs the satisfaction you get from earning or having something you know you when I was a little kid and my goal was to play at the High level that was always what do you call it intrinsic intrinsic motivation it was always it was never been about other things so it's just realigning yourself with with with that yeah cuz it can't and everyone's got different motives for some people it might be different but that's always been mind and what were some of the other things you learned with your like mental mental Fitness coach what you call thatal skills coach skills coach yeah um he was awesome to be honest I got him at the end of that season when I I forgot my what my responsibilities were and probably little went a little bit off track I reached out to him to help me uh my Paul was in a pretty bad mental space just wasn't really happy with well I wasn't happy with myself at all so um then he come on board and he just his ability to articulate certain theories and make it practical for me um but he was big on you're a person you're kale and if you know you have to do what makes you happy as side of footy and then um that will translate onto the field and transfer onto the field and he he actually like he was he did a lot for me to be honest it's hard to sort of really pigeon hole what he did but it was big on your person first and making sure that that person's happy making sure that person's fulfilled so then you can go and perform on the field because if it goes hand in hand like you can't be happy on the field and step off and live this life that you're not proud of yeah so that was I worked with him for a year um had my best year my most successful year and still talk to him now but I think he gave me so many tools that I don't really I don't talk to him as much but he gave me a lot of tools that I now carry with me and and definitely Implement like day-to-day um yeah in the season which is actually the a reflection of a good coach is like they embed you with the tools and the strategies and skills so you're ready to go it's like it's a good reflection back on him um And in regards to your mental health like we're now in an age where guys like are talking much more about their mental health which I think is just so important for so many reasons have you navigated like the ups and downs of of the mental health journey I think I've been pretty good to be honest um I've adopted this mindset and it was probably it was a few years ago now and my me and my best mate talk about it all the time is just try not to ride the highs and try not to to ride the lows as well try and stay in between or somewhere in between it's a little bit like when you think you're going better than you are life will find a way to knock you back down so just try and stay just just relax sometimes like if you win a few on the road like you're not the man like just relax just try and stay neutral and it was um Russell Wilson his coach did a podcast or or an audio book and they spoke a lot about that it's just staying neutral so I do try and carry that with me through different moments in my life because the world that we're in or I'm in is so up and down like one week can be the best week of your life the next can be the worst if you let it be yeah so just trying to yeah trying to stay neutral and trying to always stay in that little little gray area I guess um I think my support has always been a tool that I use during those times again like I said I've got my mom and dad who I I'm quite all very close with and I have my best friend that I've known for 10 years and I know that um he wants what's best for me and always has you know I he's someone that I trust deeply um so I think that's just being a big one for me is that support having that support around me um I'm yeah you're continually learning um I've I've been in the league now for eight years and so I'm kind of I'm feel like I'm in a really good position now like I've learned a lot over those eight years and I'm excited by hopefully the next eight cuz I'm about halfway in my career so but in terms of yeah Health I've I've had my lows and I've had my Highs but just trying to stay stay neutral stay neutral yeah and just come back to as you said like your core pillars of like Family Trust unit like I'm sure moving your body getting active all like different types of medicine I know I know certain things that I guess keep me alive now yeah um I guess I never really used to be consistent with my lifestyle yeah and my routine and that comes back to discipline and yeah right like being disciplined with that sort stuff when I was a kid or even probably two years ago I didn't have a routine or I wasn't living the life of someone that's healthy happy and wants to perform at a high level yeah but now I do and I'm very consistent with that and I enjoy enjoy that and I feel like whenever I Stray away from it like I want to get back onto it I want to get back into my routine and and living living a life that's aligned with what I want to achieve yeah um so that's been but can't I wish I knew that when I was 22 yeah it would have been a lot easier back then but I'm glad like this is the way I am now because of all those learnings yeah those daily grounding practices like really just set you up for success and I I totally know it when you're you're in a rhythm with it and when you're not doing it your body misses it like I got to get back into that I just feel a bit frazzled yeah yeah and Ice baths are big for you hey sa ice bath yeah do that every day like sleeping go to sleep early ni sleep morning routine like solid dud I used to be someone that couldn't be on their own I'd have to FaceTime a friend like that's not there's no peace there's no comfort in that so I I enjoy being on my own now um yeah I've just slowed down I think yeah I'm just a lot calmer and yeah just I just appreciate different things now I guess yeah and it's it's kind of I think about these things is like perfect when they arrive it's like you're ready you know and it's like you try squish all that routine down to a 22 yearold who kind of got the world yeah he's just living a life that has happened so quick for him yeah yeah you don't really know what to do like I lived with Connor who was who was 2 years older than me yeah when I was like 22 Yeah 21 he was about 23 and he was starting to do he was starting to transition into that yeah I look back now and I can see that like he was starting to do ice bars and saers and I was like why would you want to do that but now I appreciate not only the physical um benefits from them but like the the mental yeah everything you get from those sort of things so it's funny it is definitely a transition period and but yeah looking back he was definitely doing them before me yeah it's interesting how we have those like you know role really call Role Models or just like teachers even if it's in your PE group where we're suddenly just picking up messages from them so I'm curious like have there been positive role models in your life like obviously your dad's a big one but who else has really sh to you or being able to kind of hold you or support you through you know the high highs and the low lows yeah to be honest like to my hero and my biggest role model my my idol since I can remember will always be my dad um I didn't really watch sport growing up I didn't watch golf I didn't sit down in front of the TV and watch players yeah I just wanted to be like my dad and everything like all the values all the lessons everything that I am really is because of my dad um yeah just like a lot of things like just the passion that I have the love for my sport um the hard work through some tough lessons obviously um but I just it was all because of my dad yeah and like I'm glad like I'm glad that that's the way it is and how it is like I never really looked up to certain players and said I want to be like them yeah obviously I wanted to be in their shoes yeah but I didn't I wanted to be me in their shoes um I think now what like where I am now I definitely um I guess idolize a player that's in our team and that's um Tyson felle yeah I could talk I could talk for a little bit I think the way he he leads the way he holds himself the way he is on the field off the field with family I definitely look at him now and think like that's how I want to sort of mold and he's not someone that talks a lot he talks when he needs to or when the the timing's right I think he's very good at that but he like he's just so selfless um dedicated like loyal um he works hard he's someone that I look at now because I've never really I've had great um leaders and and in different teams but I think right now I think FR is probably someone that I look up to yeah um he's a little bit older than me yeah he's not he's a little bit older than me so I think I'm I'm okay in saying that but I up to him um I think he would know that um but yeah have you ever told him that no no maybe on the piss yeah definitely right now I look at the way he leads cuz he's like I'm the captain of the team but he's like the leader you know what I mean absolutely yeah he's like he's like the dad if he talks I'm listening and we listening and yeah I just I really admire the way he goes about his work life yeah it sounds like he's in this place of balance you know like how he is on the field and off the field it's like it's a n Rhythm and I think there is something about you know um people of like they don't have to say much but when they do it's like timely and thoughtful and intentional they're definitely just you want them you want them you want as many of those around but also for someone like you who holds like Captain C your leadership it's like but also you come with a lot of like extra other pressure and eyeballs so the fact that you can lean on here is like you know almost like the the general in the troops you know it's like they're the the guys that I think are so understated but everyone knows how much you trust them you know like they're the ones you want going into battle next to you yeah like he I think he just resigned last year and if he left like it would have been such a huge hole not on the field but just culturally culturally yeah um so yeah definitely grateful for him and I've got some other leaders in the team and we've got a leadership group that I lean on but yeah terms of Role Models like my dad it was just for so long and but now where I am and who I sort of look up to and yeah you know want to be like I guess is is probably him yeah yeah and he's just at that next level of Life Stage too he doing the family thing and yeah yeah yeah he he's very happy but he works so hard like he never has a day off like he's done it all he's played for Australia he's played for New South Wales he's done it all yeah but he he's the first person in there and the last person to leave um but yeah I've taken things from different athletes over the years and sort of Cherry Picked yeah Cherry Picked but I've never really had one I guess I think that's a nice way to go because yeah it's like you get to kind of pick what's relevant to you at your stage of the journey what resonates with you exactly at that point in time take it because everyone's got something to give especially some athletes at the highest level yeah it's quite I enjoy listening to what they say yeah so on that thread how do you think about success for you personally like when you think of success what what comes up such a loaded word success um success success is kind of like the end product I think as long as I'm living and aligning my living by my values and aligning myself with the things that I can control um that's going to get me the success like obviously if you were going to put a word or something on it it would be a Premiership yeah but like the truth is I might never I might never win one so but I can only control what's in here and I can control um like my routine how I live my life as long as it's aligned with you know where I want to be then I think that's success yeah um which I am now like I definitely am now I'm at a period of my career and life where um I'm definitely controlling what I can control and enjoying it I love it I love my lifestyle I love the people in my life um you know my job allows me to consistently grow consistently challenge myself like I love competing and and those sort of things and that's the beauty of the job that I'm in and um I think as long as I'm controlling what I can there being a leader being showing up and being the best version of myself for my teammates for the club you know those sort of things I can control and hopefully at the end of all that is Success yeah but um I guess success is that it's just is just living a life by that yeah I I really resonate with that a friend said to me uh recently that I find that one hard it's so tricky because it's also like there's the I don't know it's like the illusion that you'll get the trophy you know then you get the trophy you're like what's next what's next right like what's success yeah and that that's that's for me some people might have like a I don't have oh I do I guess have that end goal like someone in business might say they want to earn this amount then when they get to that amount the goal post shift absolutely so I I haven't really been asked that too often to be honest well it's I think it's interesting to reflect on right because it's like I've watched countless celebrities like I was watching this like Will Smith clip and then Jim Carrey clip who both said the same thing differently but Will Smith Goes I've bought myself everything that I've Ever Wanted on this planet everything I've ever wanted I've purchased and I wish everyone could have that feeling because I realize it's not enough that's not nice is that nice well it's basically just saying like you can you can get accumulate as many material realistic things as you want but I want them to just know that that it actually it's about what's inside and like family and values that actually is what counts yeah and it's like he had to learn it by trying to achieve so much and yeah a mate said to me recently that um Utopia AKA success is the direction not the destination which is really what you were saying it's like you know who I'm and also who I'm going on the Venture with yeah that plays a big part big part yeah yeah so yeah I think that's my version of success nice is is that it's yeah I've never I think I've ever been asked that because it is such a fial question it can be it's like and this comes back to that like intrinsic or extrinsic motivation right it's like intrinsic is like what's important to me versus like what do I want to get on the outside and they're not wrong it's just not knowing like I feel like the intrinsic one is more of a able motivation and the extrinsic is important but it's it's a bit more like finite like it kind of ends saw this thing it's about like it's like goals and I saw this thing um just the other day and it was it was like when you're younger you set goals and we all set goals I'm sure you set goals as well but it's not so much about the goal because when you get to a certain period which I am now everyone's got the same goal yeah it's about the habits that you that you have that you build that you use that's what what's important yeah because me and well I analogy um everyone when they about to run 100 m they all have the same goal yeah but it's about the habits that they've built that will get them to the end yeah and that's what life's about for me right now is obviously I have that goal but it's about the habits the lifestyle what I prioritize where my energy is that's what's going to get me to that goal absolutely another way that I've heard that be framed by um I think it's James Clear says that we don't rise to the levels of our goals we level of our systems and our systems are made up of our habits um which I think is like and there's also just recognizing the humanness in that too you know it's like sometimes we fall off our habits you know or you know our system fails us and we have to pick ourselves back up but not make ourselves wrong you know just know that like it's like if you meditate you know your mind gets so distracted and you're like wow I'm over there let me come back you know bring it back but not judging right because then you get stuck in this judgment loop it's like oh no I'm judging myself and then I go oh no I'm judging myself for judging myself yeah that's one thing that my mental coach spoke about acknowledging your thoughts during different periods and it's okay to to have those thoughts yeah but he was he was big on that as well a it's so good man sounds like that was a really important kind of time for you and you know resulted in the year later winning the Del M right was that year yeah that year that's pretty cool which is yeah it is huge huge huge moment for me nice man we we'll start to kind of land the plane uh I just have kind of two questionss for you one is um how do you think about the role of like vulnerability and also like masculinity how do those two um topics relate in your life yeah I've um spoken about before vulnerability I think in a a p personal and professional level is the most important way to uh fully connect with someone or fully connect with people um you can't if you don't open up you know you don't you don't know much about me and then therefore um you're not going to connect and want to do things like we can't build that trust or um yeah that real deep connection and I think vulnerability is huge in a performance way and the conversations are opening up um but it is about breaking down that barrier and letting people in and then once you know what someone's like or about you know you want to do more for them um vulnerability for me yeah and in as a captain or as a in in a team environment I think it's that's how I'd sort of push it uh and masculinity yeah being authentic um my first year as a as a captain I thought I had to be this this captain that was like um do all the right well you do have to do all the right things but I had to speak in every meeting um I had to be this person that I wasn't essentially and I I put that on I put a mask on for so long that by the end of the year I was burnt out and I forgot my responsibilities and I wasn't someone that was true to who I am and that's probably that pressure of masculinity being being this person that I wasn't yeah so I learned from that like just be me just be who you are no matter what no matter who no matter what it is um I think we're in a world now that everyone accepts everyone for who they are and that was what I learned that year and again masculinity like it's a part of that's a part of it um yeah just not putting pressure in yourself in that sense but I learned a lot from that year yeah yeah and also just to reflect back like having a leader or a captain that you know is living their authentic truth gives the permission back to others to do the same and then you've got a healthy culture people feel like they can be the best version of themselves and also they're accepted right and then you create that belonging and it's like that's belonging yeah exactly right and that's brings the best out of everyone gives them value yeah makes them feel valued yeah yeah that I went through that I had to go through that to to learn that totally um so it's a lesson that I that I hold now yeah nice man uh and when you think about stuff that matters to you what are some of the things we've covered some topics today but like what what's the stuff that matters to Kalin ponga um right now what matters to me um I take pride in the way I show up for my teammates my club um I take pride in in that um the relationships I have with my friends my [Music] family all those other things that we spoke about I mean like habits and those are little things that personally mean a lot to me but they tie back into I guess how I show up for for the boys and those around me um my dog sage no yeah Sage um yeah probably that I do live a lot of what I think about is like I want to be the best version of myself for those around me um and it means a lot more when you're doing it for someone else um but I mean a lot like a lot of little things mean a lot to me um but probably those things that right right now just it is mostly that amazing man well uh hey just want to say thanks like yeah super special uh 3 days no no I don't know man um yeah just wanted to say thanks for just being so real yeah and and yeah it's one thing to be able to kind of run into the stadium whether it's you know at a national level or origin level but then to actually just sit down and meet you and just feel your depth and your heart is like super rare so I just want to reflect that back and um yeah man like there's so many people that look up to you and I think this will just kind of give them another perspective into you that you're more than the player but actually someone that really deeply cares about like values and community and family and just being the best version of yourself and being authentic and I think that's just like so unique and special so thanks for you know and sharing some of your stories with us too man yeah they're real and I respect it a lot thank you