Podcast: Josh Pastner talks John Calipari, Arkansas basketball; future of War Memorial Stadium

[Music] you're listening to the hog Sports Network daily podcast now here's your host Matt [Music] Jones happy Monday appreciate you being here with us on our podcast it's game week football game week is finally here we still got a few more days to fill before we can actually talk about a real Razer back game but we can talk about real football games this week week zero college football just occurred over the weekend we have some thoughts on that week one Razer backs against uapb on Thursday night down at War Memorial Stadium and uh breaking news over the weekend we got some trash talk coming out from Jefferson County uapb receiver javanni Gibson said quote during an interview with THV it's Channel 11 down the rck he said in the back end I don't think they can really cover that much they're big but they're slow so that's what he had to say about Arkansas's secondary and you know what he may be right I don't think he's right but the the beauty of this is that Arkansas's players Ethan have to go out and prove that he is wrong in this game on Thursday night and if nothing else it kind of gives us a little bit of something to talk about Arkansas uapb instead of the fact that uapb is a 48 and a half Point dog yeah I just don't think I didn't see any Trash Talk from uapb coming ahead of this game it's just kind of you know you're fresh off a two- win season where you won by a combined two points two one-point victories including over a team that was division 2 or ni Miles College I'm not sure what classification they are but just probably not the safest route to go to try and you know talk smack against an SEC team ahead of time I know Jaylen braxon Jaylen Braxton if he has seen this that guy is somewhere ready to go Jaylen Braxton I mean you see him in practice he's one of the guys that just kind of has the most fun like it's like competitive against his own team you know when I scrimmage and stuff just with like that kind of a little Trash Talk yeah but he usually backs it up and so I just know if he saw this quote Jaylen braxon is the one that would probably he's going to he's not going to be a fan of that well you know that if they haven't seen it yet they're going to see it when they get to their team meetings oh yeah this week yeah there's no way I mean that's there's bulletin board material and then there's this I mean did you did you get a feel for Arkansas secondary last year that they were big and slow though I I never really got that feel I mean they they had some moments where they didn't play well there that's that's certainly true but you know I I was I was impressed at times with Arkansas secondary last year they had more pick six interceptions than a Razorback team has had in a long time and I know there's a lot of things that can go into that but I feel like they've got some talent in the secondary more so than for a player from an FCS team to be saying they're they're big and slow and javanni Gibson the funny thing about the guy who said this is he just transferred up from University of Arkansas monacello which they didn't have a great D2 season last year it's just I'm just not sure he's ready to this might not be time to try and talk trash you know the Arkansas secondary improved last year a lot I mean they went from last in the FBS in past defense in 2022 to I forget what they finished uh nationally but it was very respectable like they made huge improvements there I just don't know if this is the time and place to be uh as a uapb receiver smack talking I'm sure Marcus what's CU it's hard to get up for these games M you know it's like we watched the game the other day Florida State Georgia Tech it's easy to get up for that game right off the bat yeah it was easy two years ago for Arkansas to get up for playing Cincinnati right off the bat especially the fact that Cincinnati was coming off a playoff appearance the year before it can be hard to get up for these games Western Carolinas uaps just because you know they see this number they're a 48 and a half Point favorite in this game Arkansas is and that number may rise by the time kickoff happens on on Thursday this at least gives you some kind of motivation to play this game that you know and there still is a lot of self motivation to it but you're more often than not in these kind of games you're trying you're trying to make your own motivation you know what I mean yeah and this is this they could have asked for better the defense could not have asked for better than this type of quote going into this game because that's one way to like you said poke of the bear I don't think that any of them are going to see this and uh not be able to get up for the game anymore you think it adds any appeal to the game uh I mean maybe appeal right now I'm not sure that by the second quarter we're going to remember that this I'm sure it'll get brought back up that this was said yeah um but you know I don't I guess for me the appeal is whether or not the secondary can can back up yeah not necessarily they're saying anything about this but that they can prove him wrong yeah for sure and uapb was not good offensively last year in FCS either like they weren't they were not horrible defensively but offenses were they really just kind of stunk um I had these numbers the other day but I think they were I think n or 10 spots away from last place in total offense and in scoring offense so the Arkansas defense um you know if if I'm the Arkansas defense going into this game I'm kind of thinking I want to dominate like Arkansas has not had a shut out since the Chad Morris era 2018 against Tulsa at home this is a game that if I'm an Arkansas Defender I go and I say I don't want them scoring like try and get the first shut out in the Pitman era if you know I think if you were to asked me like hey trivia which Arkansas defensive coordinator had the last shut out John Chavis would not have been my answer no no there's not been one since though the closest they've come was uapb couple few years ago scored a field goal yeah it was a field goal but if I'm the Arkansas defense and I see this quote I'm like okay you're not getting in the end zone nor are you getting in field goal range today want to tell you that Josh pner the former basketball coach at Memphis and Georgia Tech is going to join us a little bit later former John caliper assistant coach we'll get his thoughts on John caliper uh coming to Arkansas and and just what an offseason looks like right now for a caliper coach team also want to give a quick shout out to Arkansas soccer team 9th ranked Razer backs scored 10 goals on Sunday and defeated Northwestern State from nacadish 10 to nothing over at Razer Back Field the 10 goals where the most Arkansas has scored in a game uh since 2017 Razer backs are 2 and one they're going to play Gonzaga on Thursday at Razer Back Field at 7:00 so that game will be going on simultaneously with the football game uh week zero takeaways from college football you know the the real big thing Ethan that I took away was that we think we know what teams are going to look like we don't really know you know what I mean think about this Florida state was a 10 and a half Point favorite to beat Georgia Tech over in Ireland they lost the game uh SMU was a 13 and a half Point favorite to beat Nevada out in Reno and they were outplayed for three quarters it took a a great fourth quarter by SMU and and and quite frankly some mistakes by n in order for SMU to come back and and win that game on Saturday you just don't know what you're going to get from teams and I I feel like now more than ever you know with the portal teams are changing so much that you think you know what you're going to see from them but when you've got 40 or 50 new players sometimes it can be you don't know what's going to happen in a bad way sometimes it can be that you don't know what's going to happen in a good way but you just don't know what to expect from teams and I think that you know for for every team that's you can maybe take some uh you know some confidence away from that but for a team like Arkansas hey you're picked to finish 14th in the SEC but it doesn't mean that that's where you have to be that's where you have to finish and it does just because you're picked to finish 14th doesn't necessarily mean that there are 13 other teams that are better than you yeah and I think Georgia Tech right now I mean they've got to be feeling great um I think they were predicted preseason in the ACC to be ninth which um you know isn't terrible but it's not good by any mean but if you're a Georgia Tech fan right now you're probably telling yourself oh wow we just beat Florida State we can contend for the ACC it's just crazy how one result can kind of change how people view your ceiling um and in the same way the one loss can like I was thinking about this Florida state had they suffered that loss last year in opening weekend that's crushing because with a four team playoff you aren't recovering from that they they went undefeated and couldn't get in um but like this them Los one game like they still have their whole season in front of them with a 12 team playoff they could recover and make the playoff it's just one result so I think it's always interesting you know these early season matchups just to see the overreactions and then maybe um a little bit of the unknown like we we didn't know that Georgia Tech could go I I I kind of ruled him out I was like I'm gonna go and watch this game expecting Florida State to win and Georgia Tech just kind of consistently ran the ball down their throat and it I mean it it made me interested to see how the rest of Georgia Tech season goes I think that's just how these early season matchups go you see the the few that actually get to make the you know the week zero lineup and you become interested in those teams for the rest of the year because you watched all their all the week zero games I mean Klay Henry always said it's about who can run the ball and it's about who can stop the run those are your best football teams and Georgia Tech did a really good job I thought the other day of running the ball and stopping the run I also find it kind of interesting that their head coach is an old offensive line coach you don't you really didn't see that a whole you saw it with Matt Luke at Old Miss but that was a little bit of a different situation because he stepped in as an interim you just don't see that a whole lot coaches that that have come from that background like Pitman has and I think that I don't remember the exact role that their defensive coordinator had but he he was at with Elco at Duke and was doing all these just kind of causing confusion with I don't know what the Elco I know Elco defenses are a thing I'm not sure like the trademark of it but he was taking some Elco like stuff they were pointing out on the broadcast and just causing a lot of confusion for Florida State offensively I just thought it was interesting you know to see um Georgia Tech they had a performance like that and I I think you just saw a little bit of like you know teams talk about they want to have an identity you got a clear identity of Georgia Tech in their first game they were oh physical they're physical running the ball and they confused the heck out of I'm not even going to try and say his last name that guy uh confused him defensively with kind of things that they were doing I love the Georgia Tech linebacker number 44 I didn't write down his name but yeah you he's a sophomore he's got the like the big high Coller in the back I mean he looked looks like a linebacker straight out of 1995 college football I'll tell you what I hated over the weekend was the two-minute warning and I know that I guess they the the announcers have been told don't call it the two-minute warning call it the two-minute timeout I don't know if that's copyrighted by the NFL or something I don't know what that is but actually because we saw this Florida state had all their timeouts left at the two-minute warning so from the time that the two-minute warning began to the time that Georgia Tech actually kicked the field goal was 17 minutes and this is without any reviews mind you I mean this was this is they've got to figure out a way to to speed the games up at the end because what they did was two-minute warning three three and a half minutes of commercials Florida takes Florida State takes first timeout another three to three and a half minutes commercial second timeout again finally took the last time out and they stayed with the game and I think it was only like maybe a 30 second to a minute break but my goodness it took a long time to play the end of that game it's funny you you crunched the numbers I knew in real time I was like dang the end of this game is taking so long than goodness for DVR hey but kept us on the edge of our seats it was a great finish um you know I enjoyed I I was happy to you know make the that game as long as possible because I've been missing college football and that's the thing like those games on a regular Saturday Saturday I I could give a hoot about SMU and Nevada or really Florida State and Georgia Tech for that matter if Georgia Tech wins that's a little bit different because Florida state but I mean I found myself on Saturday sitting there watching Montana state New Mexico I have something I watched MCN versus Tarlton mat I mean we were desperate starving I mean I'm sitting there watching a game in Albuquerque like I've got some vested interest in it I don't but you know it's just it's just nice to see uh a real game back the the that game was incredible too we it was really the only dud of the day was if you stayed up for Delaware state Hawaii I mean that one wasn't very good but poor Delaware State think about their week they missed their flight to Hawaii then they get there then the game kicks off at 11:59 Delaware time and they play the game in the outer bands of a tropical storm that's moving on Shore rough rough week I think though I think they're the Hornets the Hornets are ready to be home yeah I I hope they made it home hope they they missed their flight back to the Northeast all right we're off and rolling uh we got some thoughts on war memorials Stadium coming up uh not going to take a position on War Memorial Stadium but just really lay out some facts about the stadium and and what's going to happen with the stadium moving forward or what at least what we think what might happen with the stadium moving forward we'll get to that in just a moment but first a word from our sponsors LPGA week in Northwest Arkansas returns September 23rd through the 29th for the 18th consecutive year watch former Razer backs and 2024 Olympians Maria FY and Gabby Lopez compete against the world's best female golfers at the Walmart Northwest Arkansas Championship presented by PNG at Pinnacle Country Club in Rogers the NWA Championship is so much more than a golf tournament with something for everyone to enjoy in activities for fans of all ages daily tickets are only $10 and kids 17 and under getting free with a ticket at adult get your tickets today at NWA championship. at kall King we're proud of over four Decades of design we're continuing the legacy of great Creative Design by combining our brands of kle King soapbox and Shop cart together these Brands represent a new focus in marketing design with individual attention to specific areas through our design expertise supported by a team of talented professionals we showcase our best we are Kindle King we are soapbox we are shopart we are [Music] design and welcome back we appreciate you being here of course AR Goes to War Memorial Stadium this weekend and every time the Razer Backs play at war memorial uh you hear the the talk start up so they be playing games in Little Rock it's such a u it's such a passionate discussion I think among people although I'm not sure that the the fervor is still there for games at War Memorial and I want to get into that Ethan I've written down things that I know and things that I think I know as we talk about war memorial stadium but before we get into that you know just a little bit of background I didn't go to a game at War Memorial Stadium till I was probably 16 years old um so and then I've gone down there dozens of times since to to cover Razer back games I don't have a dog in this fight it doesn't really matter to me what Arkansas does but I think because of that I'm able to maybe step back and look at this a little bit more analytically than people who are you know so so heavily interested in whether or not a game stays there and you've got a little bit of a different uh perspective because your your dad played for the Razer backs and you grew up going to games at war memorial less than an hour from your house mhm yeah they were this is the thing though they were special back then I like my first memory of a Razer back football game any game was actually um 2009 missing the kickoff we were a little bit late to the Missouri State game in Little Rock and that was Den Johnson took it back for a touchdown yeah 91 yards for a touchdown and missed it it was like the the most exciting play of the game it was a blowout from there and we missed it heard everybody going crazy we're were like literally in The Concourse about to be there and that happens but there were special games like the patrino era there were some special Little Rock games then like I remember the of course the LSU game the fourth and three um they went on to win that game that was a big one they beat Mississippi State handily and made it the the top three of the AP poll the next day be all um there were some they were great in Little Rock during the patrino era um I think that those games were special then because you got some of the bigger matchups like if you get LSU around Thanksgiving like they would pack the stadium for that it was a big game but it's hard to get up on a Thursday night for playing uapb I you know I see the like I have the nostalgic like grew up going to this like there's a charm to it playing a more Memorial but I feel like the older I've gotten and just seeing like like last year was a great example of you know having war memorial and I know the AT&T Stadium contract ends having both of those games that early in the year I it just took away from what they could do in fville they don't play in fville this year until week three and then I don't think again until October October it just it's there's two sides to every coin and I'm not sure that nostalgic is worth it at this point well let's lay out some facts what do we know and what do we think we know what we know is that Arkansas is contracted at War Memorial Stadium through September 6th of next year they're going to play Arkansas State for the first time that's the end of the Razer back's contract with war Mor Stadium will it be extended past then possibly uh but we don't know if it will be there have been a lot of times where this contract has gone down you know to the final year or so and then it gets extended so I I don't know if the fact that there's only one game remaining on this contract after last year really means anything what I think I know is that momentum for games at war memorial seems like it is waning every year and I think part of that is what you were talking about who they play there I mean it it's hard doesn't matter if it's on a third Thursday night or on a Saturday afternoon it's hard to get up for a game against a uapb or an all corn state or a Florida A&M or a Western Carolina there have been some SEC games in there during that time but I don't think there's going to be any SEC games going back to Little Rock I I don't I I think that the way they look at it is they won SEC games on campus for recruiting purposes and I don't believe that you're ever going to see an SEC game be played at war memorial again as a result of that you're seeing lower attendances we talked about this last week they've distributed somewhere between 35 and 40,000 tickets for this game a week out from the game probably going to end up with an attendance somewhere in the range of what they had last year against Western Carolina which was in the 44,000 range in the last five times that Arkansas's played at War Memorial Stadium that's the Florida A&M game in 17 that was on a Thursday night they played Old Miss on a rainy Saturday in 18 Missouri on Black Friday in 19 uapb on a Saturday in 2021 in Western Carolina last year the average attendance for games at War moral is 41,600 there and you'd come back I don't think you see that anymore you see that with the kids doing that going to Dallas but you don't see them doing that for Little Rock anymore and if you don't have support of the young people for this game that tells me that the writing is on the wall for the future of War Memorial Stadium it may not be in the next 10 years I don't know when but it's not resonating with the young people part of that is the games that they're playing there but the experience at war memorial is not resonating with the young people and and that's going to be a factor some Road I'm going to be honest I think it really plays hand in hand with how the team has been in the past like the 41,000 I mean like by the time they played Old Miss that rainy I think that was my freshman still a great crowd it was a great crowd best Crow theyve had and that was the best they played that year in an SEC game um the Missouri game the next year they actually played pretty well in that game and that crowd was not good but and well they were competitive that was not a good game they yeah competive they played well for the standards of that year in SEC play uh Jack Lindsay and the boys almost got it done um but it's like it's hard it's almost like they're scheduling it to it feels like the schedule is being designed simultaneously with just how the team has been the past years to like lose war memorial support how are you supposed to like defend a stadium like these games are ones that nobody wants to go to whenever they played LSU in 20 uh 2010 it was packed because it was a good best game I've ever been to there it was a best it was a good team in a great game I've said this that you know if you if you want to talk about the demise of War Memorial Stadium at least in how it you know is is viewed its influence is viewed on the Razorback football schedule you got to lay a lot of the responsibility at the the feet of the schedule makers they have every time in the last 25 years that the contract has come up for war memorial the it it's been the years have been extended but the influence that war memorial has on Arkansas's schedule has been Stripped Away you go back to 2008 they were supposed to play a couple of more years with three games there so they extend the contract for a couple of years and make it to where they're never going to play more than two games a year there fast forward 5 years now there's no more two games a year there they're going to play one game there each year over five years two of those games are going to be SEC games fast forward a little bit more now they're going to play Missouri there every other year and they're going to have a spring game there every other year that didn't last for very long fast forward a little bit further now you've got only non-conference games there and it's the first time since war memorial open that they're not playing a team from the southwest conference or the SEC in that stadium and now I think what war memorial is always going to be uh saddled with as long as there are games in Little Rock is a game against one of the most unappealing opponents on the schedule you can look at Arkansas State next year and say well Arkansas State that's the first time Arkansas's playing them that's an appealing game maybe but I mean would you say Arkansas state is more appealing than any of the eight SEC teams they're playing next year is it more appealing the Notre Dame no I mean so at best that's their 10th best game on the schedule next year their 10th most appealing game on the schedule next year is Arkansas State and that's a really good game relative to what war memorial has been getting against these FCS opponents I think that's how that's how I see it being treated for the foreseeable future is like play especially if you have like if there's an instate team on your schedule non-conference play it in Little Rock if there's an FCS if you don't have a if you don't have a inate team but you have an FCS opponent play him and Little Rock here's the big thing to me though is that moving forward I think the bottom line is the bottom line you know what I mean your your finances are going to be the bottom line I don't have updated numbers on this this is based on the last time uh that the contract was up for Renewal this was in late 2017 that I got these numbers but I think the numbers probably are still fairly comparable so bear with me for a minute at that time in 2017 the average revenue for a game at War Memorial Stadium was $3.7 Million the average revenue for a game in Fay at that time in 2017 was $7.4 Million so double the amount in Little Rock and it was projected to rise to 8.4 million at the time the North End Zone was completed the North End Zone expansion at razorback stadium so if those numbers are even anywhere in the same ballpark right now and I think they they probably are you're looking at at somewhere around4 half to5 million is the difference in revenue between playing in Little Rock and playing in pville and that doesn't take into consideration Ethan the fact that Little Rock even though it is a home game for the Razorbacks it is a travel game yeah you have to take a big official party on the road to the rock you have to get shuttle buses you have to get hundreds of hotel rooms I would imagine at the Double Tree downtown I mean that's a big expense and when you're looking I listened to to Hunter EUR addressed the Board of Trustees a couple of weeks ago when you're looking at ways as he said to significantly increase revenues and decrease expenses playing at war memorial is is an obvious thing to me that that is a it's an increase in Revenue by playing in fville it's a decrease in expense by not traveling uh to play a home game in Little Rock it seems to me like this game might be on its final leg um I just I I just wonder how long they're able to keep games down there when the the the quote great Stadium debate began about 25 years ago the big worry was that some of the the big donors in Little Rock would withhold their money if the Razer backs didn't play down there I don't know how much more of a consideration that is I'm sure that you know that has to be examined with everything else donor relations does but I wonder how much of a of an impact that is now that you see the people who are leading these larger companies these corporations it's not the same people necessarily who were leading them 25 years ago it's a new gener of people they feel that passionate about keeping games in central Arkansas as the people who came them did I think the definitely the defense of War Memorial Stadium is dwindle like it's just if you go to a game on a hot Saturday season opener and they're out of water that was bad look last year you're running out of Defense of like why to keep a game here it's not only like if you're going to be not gaining as much revenue from having a game down there it better be just an incredible I just it's got to be a super super special thing and I'm not sure that special that you know like I mentioned 2010 I'm not sure that charm is there at all anymore I don't know that you can get it back either I mean I guess if you played LSU there again you know the people would show up and and they would be there for it and but again I just don't think you're going to see FCC teams uh come back to Little Rock I think that that's a a bygone era we talked about this with David Basel a couple of weeks ago on the podcast about you know what's the you know what's the feeling among people in Little Rock about this game at War Memorial Stadium and and I think you know David he's I think he's for the game there I think David's for whatever's best for the Razorbacks but you I think he agreed with me the fact that it just does seem like some of the enthusiasm has been lost U you know for this game at war memorial can you bring it back I don't know if you can uh I will say one other thing is that the nine game SEC schedule I think this plays a factor in the war memorial discussion that let's say you have a year where you've got five Road games in the SEC and you've got four sec home games and maybe I don't know if they'll ever let to get to this point let's say maybe that dovetail is with a year where you're supposed to go to Utah or you're supposed to go to lck or you're supposed to go to Stillwater uh or Notre Dame that's that's down the road they've got a trip lined up to South Bend there's no way they're going to play a game in Little Rock on those years and I think we're past the point where Little Rock expects to get a game annually we've had a couple of years here just recently where they didn't get a game in 2020 in 2022 but uh I'm not sure we'll ever have finality about war memorial s that that's what I'm really interested to see is when this Arkansas State game ends or or happens next year and let's say the contract has not been extended at that point like what does anybody say about the game at warmart did they just kind of let it just sit there and never say anything about it again or is there some sort of official announcement that comes out says hey we're never playing there anymore or you know maybe it's maybe more likely me is we're not totally closing the door on War Memorial but we're going to kind of sit back for a year or two and and reassess our options there moving forward yeah I think it'll be interesting to see if they you know if you just stop having games or if like you know the bring back War Memorial Stadium crowd crawls out of the woodwork so just raise a fit I just haven't heard it personally like the past few years it feels like that crowd is it's they're losing even they don't think that's that important I think there are a lot of people who realize how much college football has changed and I say this that it feels to me like college football is changing in dog years you know so like where it used to you know you kind of had this gradual change now it's like one year worth of change might have felt like seven years worth of change a decade ago it just seems to me like a lot of people who have been on the bandwagon for keeping games in Little Rock and this includes people who live down there some of the people I've talked to it just feels like they have resigned to the fact that this is a something from a bygone era and that it's best for the team moving forward if this game isn't played anymore and you know all of the resources that are could possibly be put into the team are put into the team through a home game yeah I will say it's always kind of cool still to see like on the game days there like the people walking from their houses um to get there like there is a there's still like a really cool charm to it it'll be sad to see that not happen if it you know if this ends pretty soon but you got to like the bottom line is the bottom line like you said yep I think that's that's the bottom line Ethan we appreciate you being here when we come back we're going to talk to Josh pner the former basketball coach at Memphis and Georgia Tech about his years working with John caliper and a little bit more but first another word from our sponsors taste sip sample and discover the very best restaurants and chefs Northwest Arkansas has to offer at the bite experience at the LPGA a unique culinary experience on site at the Northwest Arkansas Championship tickets are available Friday September 27th through Sunday September 29th offering access to the best golf viewing and food and beverage samples from over 30 local restaurants you don't want to miss this tickets are available for $45 a day get yours before they sell out at B nwa.com at Kindle King we're proud of over four Decades of design we're continuing the legacy of great Creative Design by combining our brands of Kindle King soapbox and Shop cart together these Brands represent a new focus in marketing design with individual attention to specific areas through our design expertise supported by a team of talented professionals we showcase our best we are Kindle King we are soapbox we are shop cart we are [Music] design welcome back we appreciate you being here on a Monday we want to tell you about bville glass serving its Community since 1971 bville glass is committed professional and versatile if you're looking for a quality leader in Northwest Arkansas or looking for skilled craftsmanship choose Bentonville glass for all of your glass Market needs with the highest quality products you can come find them at 57 South Main in Bentonville or online at Bentonville glass.com Josh pner is a former basketball coach at the at Memphis and at Georgia Tech and now he's an analyst for ESPN NBC Peacock and Turner Sports for the NCAA tournament and uh coach pner you also were an assistant coach for John calip Perry many years ago we appreciate you joining us thanks for having me I really appreciate it love talking about Coach calip Perry and uh I'm in you know I'm in the car parked so I got my seat belt on so I don't want anyone to think I'm driving and doing the zoom at the talking at the same time but really excited talk to about Coach Cal and you guys when I say you guys all you know razor back Nation over there which I'm very familiar with because when I was a head coach at Memphis for seven years I understood crossing over the state mind and what that meant uh and this and the and the Sea of red that was all across the state and so um you so I fully understand how passionate the fan base is and I can tell and so does coach calip Perry because obviously he was at Memphis a long time and uh but I can tell you that Razer back Nation uh you got an incredible coach and I think you know there's not gonna be a lot of waiting around I mean you're going to be competing for SEC championships and and and Final and national championships this year starting this year not not like it's not going to be a three four year waight you're going to be competing at the highest level starting this year I saw Matt norlander and Gary Parish did a uh a story the other day where they pulled various division one coaches and of course Cal Perry going to Arkansas was you know the big surprise move if you will in college basketball does it does it feel real yet to you I mean has it said in that he actually left Kentucky to Arkansas I I I it I I think it was just complet completely shocking for a lot of people um for him to leave Kentucky and look being at Kentucky as long as he was I mean that's not an easy job either obviously uh and he had tremendous success there won a lot of games um I I I I think um I think it's kind of set in and settled in um but you know look the way things are first of all Arkansas is a big-time basketball program they've had tremendous success um and and I mean it's it's it's this you know the state school there is no pro team in the state I mean it's people love Arkansas basketball I mean in Arkansas sports in general but I know how much they love Arkansas basketball obviously you've had great success you've won a national championship all that good stuff with Coach Richardson back and then you've had other coaches there who've made deep runs um uh so but but because of the new era of college hoops um and and this is just my personal opinion uh that that I don't know how much the the prospects are as concerned about the name on the front of the Jersey anymore based on what is allowed based on nil and and the pay to play model uh with the name image likeness and all the marketing and the revenue sharing um you know probably 101 15 years ago uh you know would Scott drew have turned down Louisville or or Kentucky or you know to to stay at b or of course not um would coach caliper have gone from Kentucky to Arkansas probably not but things have changed because it's not so much about the the the the history of the program anymore it's really the current situation of financially on the impact of being able to get the best recruits and a school like Arkansas based on the some of the tremendous donors and boosters and incredible companies and organizations that support Arkansas you you know from when you have a guy that has a success of John caliper of the amount of players he's put into the NBA and all the wins he's a Hall of Famer on top of the the the financial impact the possibility that Arkansas can make based on you know some of the great donors they have and the excitement enthusiasm that coach calip Perry brings you know they're they're just automatically lit up to the very top of the food chain in college basketball and that's just the way the the Dynamics are in 2024 and Beyond moving forward than it was than it will than it was maybe a decade ago and I don't know if you agree on that not or Matt but I I think that's that's just the reality of it of where we're at in college hoops well and I mean I think that's something that we talk about on this show quite a bit is that you can't look at anything anymore through the prism that you looked at it five years ago everything has changed so much that um it it's just changing and it it continues to change it feels like at a higher speed than it ever has in college sports you mentioned Scott drew at Baylor Arkansas and Baylor are going to play in Dallas in November that was announced over the weekend or or late last Friday uh how good can that game be based on what you know about Arkansas and what you know about Baylor I think that's going to be a highlevel game I did see that Matt that that they're going to play against each other and I think that's just a uh that's going to be an elite game and it's early in the season too so which is which is great for college hoops as well too um you know Baylor has had scottt Drew has had good success recruiting in Arkansas uh you know he's he's he's been in there quite a bit um and but they're going to be really good this year again Baylor's good every year me he's got that program rolling right now obviously is you know on on one of the best programs consistently year and year out plus with who coach caliper has brought in and and the guys that are returning that's going to be a a a power you know Big Time power game in a sense that it could it could be telling of a sweet 16 Elite 8 matchup down the road uh uh in the NCA in the NCAA tournament in 2025 so you'll know a lot about the the fan bases of each team will know a lot about their teams after that game has concluded as a head coach how competitive did you want to be in non-conference games because I mean you look at Arkansas's schedule this year we mentioned Baylor they're going to play Illinois in Kansas City Michigan as part of Jimmy V at Madison Square Garden Miami as part of the ACC challenge there going to be some really good non-conference games on here I mean if you look at that as a head coach is that does that excite you does it make you nervous well I would say two things in regarding the Illinois game I think that's right that's on CBS right after the U on Thanksgiving right after the NFL game so um again credit to co I and I'm sure Brad Underwood had some doing in it but you know coach calip Perry is such a genius with marketing um and and seeing the big picture so I you know I'm sure he fought to get that I'm assuming that he fought to get that on see right after the football game because you know this Matt the amount of viewership oh yeah everyone's going to be watching the football game everybody in America is going to be watching the football game and then when the football game's done they're not just going to turn it off they're gonna that's going to lead into the Arkansas Illinois basketball game so the amount of viewership I would assume that game will be one of the most highly watched games in the last 10 years five 10 years of college basketball just based on where it's set in on Thanksgiving after that NFL game so you'll see the ratings after that game's done at extremely high numbers um but to answer your question um yes I mean it's very important to play a non-conference schedule I mean look I think it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish when you have a team like Arkansas like with Coach calip Perry you know you're not trying to play for the nc2a tournament I mean they're going to be in the tournament um he's really playing for seating and so you've got to do a great job in win in the non-conference and win some of those Marquee games like the Michigan Illinois Balor uh win some of those because that helps you get the best seating possible to give you your best chance to make the deepest run yes you're going to be tested and have tremendous um um competition in the SEC now including with Texas coming in and Oklahoma and everything else uh plus the league is as good as there is in the country right now uh but playing that non-con schedule like that getting tested you know a lot about your team early but for a team like Arkansas for a team like Baylor they're they're they're planning on being in the tournament so they're playing for seeding in those type of games um you know when you like the Illinois game like the Michigan game you know you're you got to win those but that helps you later on when you deal with the committee to get into the tournament with the higher seed which obviously gives you your best chance as I always say your the whole thing is to get look everyone wants to win a national championship but the whole thing is to get to the Sweet 16 because once you get to the Sweet 16 it's really a crapshoot it's a lot of its matchups anything can happen it's getting through that first two games of the of the round one and two basically getting through that once you get to the Sweet 16 you really have have a great shot of advancing the final four because anything can happen because it is like I mentioned matchups but to get you your best shot to get to the Sweet 16 every everything comes down to having great seating and that starts with playing a great non-conference schedule you've coached and winning games and you got to win the games too right you've coed the ACC you know what a really deep basketball league looks like uh is the SEC getting to that point I think the SEC personally I think this year they're going to be uh I think they're going to be the best league you know in the preseason again things can change as we go move forward and uh you know the Big 12 based on numbers last year you know going into the tournament and everything um you know a strength of conference if you look at the analytics obviously the big you know Big 10 he's gotten added teams but I do think going in on paper based on who's coming back who they've signed the addition of other coaches I would say moving into this season the SEC will be conference number one um uh with the with the with the chance to be the best conference in all of college basketball uh this year you know the one thing about the Big East which I think's a obviously you know they don't have football or anything but it's an incredible basketball conference but they only did get three teams in last year to the nc2 tournament so I think that's a deep league but I think going in from my perspective the SEC with the addition of who they have coming in Prospect wise plus the coaches and the changes I'm going the SEC is goingon to be the best and not only the prospect wise the additional teams coming in so you're going to look at the uh um SEC as the best league going into this season and it's a gauntlet every game is a complete fight which is awesome I mean it's a compl it's a it's exhilarating it's thrilling it's there's so much enthusiasm I've never been um to a game at home where Arkansas plays um I obviously I've been I've recruited into Arkansas and understand you know like I said the passion but I everyone tells me how intense the fan base is and it's one of the great fan bases and and great homecourt advantages in all of college basketball so you have that coming in with the SEC but literally every time you're playing someone it's going to be just a big time big- time basketball game and I think when and you mentioned earlier about the CBs poll of Coach calip Perry when is it set in I think the real time it will set in is when he's going to Lexington on February 1 on prime time playing at Kentucky Arkansas Kentucky that's when it will really really set in for everyone he's no longer at Kentucky 22 years ago John caliper ended the Arkansas Memphis series you you never you never extended it when you were the head coach there now that you're not there knowing what you know about those two programs what would you think if that game came back I think it should come back I I wish I if I knew what I knew now I would have extended the series and Coach calip Perry yes he he he shut it down but I I should have extended it you know we I cuz it just when I look back I wish I extended it because that that is something like the Memphis Louisville Memphis Arkansas and again maybe not everyone on the West Coast or the Northeast understands it but Memphis Arkansas is such a big rival I mean they've had so many recruiting um they've had so many recruiting um battles between everybody uh way back in the day I mean even when Larry Finch was the coach at Memphis when they called at Memphis State back in the day uh uh so I mean you can just go on and on I mean even back to Dana Kirk when he was a coach at Memphis so it's been a Jee BTO when he was there I mean it's just it's such an intense rival and I and Memphis and Arkansas obviously played last year in Orlando was it the B was it Bahamas or the battle for Atlant yeah it was Bahamas so they did play but but there's that was in a in a in a neutral tournament it needs to get back toward its home and home and and and for the fan base's sake that's one of the things if I could have done it over again I would have done that and try to revisit the Arkansas Rival game rivalry game between Memphis and you live in Lauren you know along along the lines of that so that is something that I definitely look back to and I wish I had had restarted that game restarted that series Penny Hardway has seemed like he is in favor of of potentially having that conversation with hopefully with calip Perry back here at Arkansas uh that might happen Josh one more for you we'll get you here on this having worked for John Cal Perry just having been a coach for so many years what do you think uh the offseason looks like right now over at Arkansas's facility what does he have them doing well I'll tell you what I mean look I everyone talks about his recruiting I mean you look at the players that that that he's put in the NBA I mean it's unmatched it's and I mean you look at the allstar game you look at the Olympics I mean he's got he's got John calip Perry's got guys all over the place um but he doesn't get enough credit for how good of a coach he is and I look I get it he's people have got on him the last couple years they've had some early exits I mean it doesn't say road to the regular season Championship it doesn't say road to the it says road to the final four so everything in college basketball is about road to the final four so I get that and he had a couple you know tough early exits in the tournament which which anybody knows it you know and you get judged by that um you know you have an off night you have one off night or one guy get hot and those things can just happen and it can just kind of forget everything about the past of the season I mean people forget last year going into the tournament you know this covering the SEC a lot of people were picking Kentucky to go to the final four that was kind of the sexy pick going in like even though they were young a lot of people were excited enthused about how they were playing and really picked them to go the final four and of course they had a really tough out so I sailed that to tell you this he's an incredible coach he's a big- Time coach you don't win like he's won uh at the level he's won at without being a a big time coach so what they're doing right now and and I know him I mean he's I worked for him so I mean right now it's he his whole focus is obviously more than just the X's and O's um and about rebounding and defensively he's laying his groundwork because he's so big about jelling the team and getting guys to play together when he has a talented team like he does with all the amount of talent that he's been able to accumulate in all of his different teams and nothing different this year at Arkansas he's a master at making things work even for oneandone guys how does he gel them together and and have them fit in and understand about playing hard and competing and look I think him being at Arkansas for Coach calip Perry it gives him a fresh start it gives him a a fresh uh uh extra pep in his step you know when at the success that he had at Kentucky you know it's it was a long time he was there I mean that's almost impossible to be at that job for that long and so it could it could almost wear you down I think him being at Arkansas gives him a new uh like I said a new start a fresh just a fresh clean slate mentally um I think right now he's probably so intense with his guys and I'm sure more than anything they're locked in defensively and and moving the ball and just playing so darn hard and um I I I just think and I'm not just saying this because I'm a you know I work for him or or I'm a fan of of of how successful he's been I'm telling you you know just as objectively that Arkansas is going to be a real player uh in the National conversation uh for for deep runs for national championships for as long as he's there and that starts this year and and I would not be surprised based on Coach calip Perry's fresh start new look um you know just a new pep inist step that he's got Arkansas knocking on the doors of the final four this upcoming season it it wouldn't surprise me it would be no and it wouldn't be a shock to anybody within the industry in college basketball that's how good he is that's how well they've recruited and that's how well they're going to continue to recruit as long as he's the head coach there good words Josh we appreciate your time and hopefully we can catch up with you a little bit more after the season begins yeah anytime I'd love to be on let me know appreciate it and uh looking forward to watching the Razer backs uh uh uh play this year all right Josh passner for John caliper assistant former head coach at Memphis and Georgia Tech now an analyst for several different college basketball networks and we appreciate you being here on our podcast we'll be back with another one tomorrow until then hope you'll come to our website at wholehogsports.com have a great day everyone