CineAI Podcast | Meet Pierre Le Goff | Hosted by Shabbir Merchant, CEO | CineAI 2024 Mumbai

[Music] welcome you to our podcast today uh and I think uh what we will do today is just you know understand a little bit about your journey with AI and how you got started and I think uh it probably end towards trying to you know motivate people uh in terms of you know unleashing their creativity with generative AI so I think first uh probably uh I would like to get started with a little introduction about yourself tell us a little bit about your journey how you got started your interest in generative Ai and the kind of things which you're doing with generative AI in in the Arts right now for sure um so I started uh first as an editor uh in a in an advertising agency uh I've done that for like three to five years then I moved to directing uh commercials also in that agency which is public it's a quite a big group um I've been I've been doing that for also like yeah three to four years then I've became a freelancer still as a director uh and right around that time which is also the time where like Runway first started uh I started a position as a head of post production at media mons which is also a Global Production Company MH uh which is all based in France but like all over the world mhm and um and it's a company that's you know emphasis on AI a lot so we had access I had access to all the licenses for every well not every but a lot of AI tools out there so I just started you know doing some research and development trying to see okay what can I do how can this helps me in the in my day-to-day job uh and then I first it was only for like still images like M Journey like OD Direction and everything uh helping me with like doing storyboards that are way more details but it was still only for Ste IM still images um and then like the image to video tools kind of uh appear and became better and better uh so I started to make like short films and animations um well at first it was like you know sort of like a lot of AI video that we saw those past two years that's something sometimes look like just animated story boards you know it's just shots after shots after shots with not too much of a story behind it not too much of a CO cence coherency sorry between shots and so I've started to wonder okay how can I use what I know how to do as a director like a real life director on a set and everything but with AI uh what are the limits what uh what can we do what cannot I do because there's a lot of things that we cannot do right now now uh but that's great also because that means there's still a lot of things that we can learn and and Implement in the future uh so I've done also a short film um and which was what was interesting with AI also is that uh for a normal film like a regular film classic film you know I have an ID and then I directed it there I started with the contrains of AI that the that was there at the time like voice generation was like you know pretty flat pretty flat yeah I felt like you couldn't ask uh what you can ask with a regular actor you know to play and end so I was like okay this voice makes me think of someone that's kind of depressed you know so I was like okay maybe I can write someone who's depressed because that's not weird to have that kind of voice uh in that case and you know there's also lip sync with AI was not perfect at the time uh so I was like okay I need a voice over for that because I can't have her speaking at the camera for too long because we'll see that it doesn't match perfectly so okay but if I have a voice over then I need to have like uh fast-pace editing and everything so I started you know like writing the whole thing starting with the constraints okay those are the limits and I need to write something within those limits and I think that's another way of thinking and working with generative AI uh regarding video AI uh but that's something that's really interesting you know okay I have have limits what can I do within those limits um they can help me you know uh you shouldn't take them as okay those are constraints and everything no there's huge amount of possibilities within those contraints and that's what great and uh and in September I will um start a new position in in another company which is a production company which is based all in Paris and in Los Angeles uh and they want to build an entirely AI driven uh Production Studio so I'll be moving there to implement that create that uh from the ground up so so that's next month basically yeah in uh two weeks from now you fing to Los Angeles La no uh the office is ply in Paris partly in Los Angeles so I might move there like once or twice a year but the yeah no the main part of the job will be done in Paris um and also you know like video to video and all the new tools uh of generative AI which is something that it's going to be a lot of research and developments and how to implement those tools within a proper uh post production flow and something that we can actually sell to the clients because right now at least in commercials and in advertising um AI helps a lot in like preproduction uh to sell idas to sell films to you know rather than having a story Bard working we can generate everything we can you know almost animate the whole film but it starts it stops there there it goes into normal production and there's a regular shooting and everything and so yeah right now the all IG so tell me a little bit about the tools which you're using at this stage I I assume you're using M Journey CH GPT uh that's what I hear any other tools LTX Studio I don't know if you're using that but there are some out there yeah yeah LTX Studio actually uh sent me um sorry a link that so I can use it for free to try out and give them feedbacks so I've started working on it there's some great ideas uh but for now it's more ideas from my point of view because like the whole idea to be able to make a storyboard to have my characters uh my scripts and everything into a a unique uh interface is great uh but the image generation and it's not as perfect as you can what you can have in M Journey or other one but but the whole IDE is great uh I think in like maybe two three months uh uh it will be better and better and it will be something that we can use as an output right now it's just for preproduction uh but it works there's definitely some great ideas and some great ideas for directors meaning that I can generate an image but I can tell it okay I want the camera to move to pan I want the camera camera to shells which those are things that as a director I'm really interested in because that's the limits of when you are used to you know holding the camera and putting the camera wherever you want having to do that through a prompt you like no I want the camera to be just a bit on the left just a bit on the right um something that can be a bit frustrating uh and that's something that they are working on so that's actually great uh and for the most part I mean me journey in terms of image generation for me still the best uh it's also the one that I've been using the most so it's the one I'm most comfortable with in terms of you know prompt and everything um and style reference and character reference also is a major uh updates for filmmakers to have a character consistency because before when you had a character which was the case for my uh for my short film at first um I couldn't have the same face on every shot and it's a huge problem uh when you have characters in film so that's why I decided to hover in a pink pajama with short hair because I was like okay if a face changes that's not a big deal because like she has a really particular style so we won't see it too much and then after the they release the car consistency which is working really nice also we can train it uh something that have done um in terms of the voice 11 Labs is the one that I use the most uh because of the voice cloning that I I think is great um and there there's still lots of improvements in terms of voice generation uh you know to to can give it to to be able to train AI to okay this is a happy uh this is happy this is sad this is emphasis you know there's still a lot of things that you can't control but um but for me it's still at the moment it's the best uh 11 lap Runway of course uh especially since there the Gen 3 which is uh absolutely great uh and the fact that I can not right now in gen 3 but still in gen two you know I can put a brush like on on every part of my image and okay this needs to move up this needs to move down and it's you get a Precision that you want as a director uh that's the kind of the tools you know that you that you want to have to be able to as precise as possible um and in terms of other tools uh yeah so LTX for the most part I I don't really use GPT uh to be honest CH GPT uh because I also like to keep the writing uh something that's not done through AI uh really like that uh to Al to still have something that a human created like in a short IEM because if something is 100% AI like meaning from the writing to the editing to everything for me I know this won't interest me particularly because I need to know that there's a human behind it that had decision on that and that's his vision that that those are those are his choices and that's what interest me uh and it's kind of the same thing with AI music generation uh I think it's great to use in short films and everything it's great but that that's not something that I'm going to listen like on Trans in the Subway or in or in my car cuz you know there's nothing behind it's except the notes and and a generated voice but there's not a creation process behind it uh so it's useful uh for yeah commercials short FS films whatever um but yeah it misses that um that human feeling to it um and yeah for now it's for most of the part uh those are the the tools that I use because there are also a lot of tools out there that are really specific uh like I've also done a bit of prompt to 3D images uh to have files that I can use in after effect or other stuff but that's really specific uh that's not something that I use on a daily basis those are really spef for specific needs um but uh yeah those are the main tools and also I like to keep track of all the tools that are there but I like to keep like a like a list of maybe four to five tools that I use uh because otherwise uh it can be really messy there's so much uh things going out there are so much updates every day are you looking forward to Sora and you know I'm sure you seen Sora right I yeah I was I was uh bit curious when the first footage from Sora came out because I was like okay so in terms of photo realism it's great it's better than anything we've ever seen it's amazing but one of the first things I'm asking myself every time is like okay how can I use this to tell a story and having something that's only realistic but I something on maybe maybe I will I won't have a lot of control on it that doesn't really interest me what I want to know there is okay this is great but can I choose the camera angle can I have a character consistency can I choose the lighting can I can I choose the camera movement on this and if that's so okay so that's something that will I will be able to use but if if that's not the case then and yeah it's great it's photo realistic and it's amazing but I'm still going to miss those tools uh that I'm looking for because yeah it's it's photo realism is one thing but you know having control and complete control over the tool is is something else but I'm still looking yeah like looking forward to it and there's also um music videos that are that were made with Sora that went out that were absolutely great so I'm sure that there's a lot of ways to control it but we just don't know it right it's just not released yet right of course uh you have uh some other tools I'm sure you've heard of luma labs they also have dream machine and you also heard of uh you know uh uh cling I don't know if you explored cling but cing is also another one which is been advertised quite a lot there are some other tools as well but I think they're not so much advertised uh because a lot of lot of work is going in secrecy as well uh people are not putting out uh information till are able to you know reach to a certain level so what we see is just a fraction of what's going to come probably by the end of the year when we have this event I think there's a lot to talk about at the event absolutely so I think so moving on from there uh I wanted to get your perspective on how this generative AI is going to impact on the industry right at one end you have people really scared um and the other end people like you who have really adopted it and taking it to the next level but where do you see um these tools really helping the industry do you think it will go against or it will go with the people like how what's your take on this um I think in the end people will be kind of forced to you know move with the flow but I think it's a great opportunity because but I don't think it will replace the industry it will come as a complement to the industry it will help out like in terms of postproduction it can help us to you know reduce rce cost for the clients reduce uh timings uh and everything there's there's a huge amount of possibilities that we can make and what what's great and it's kind of the same thing like when you know the first digital cameras appears appeared is like back in the day if you wanted to make a film you know you had to have an old school uh camera and have and everything and it was fastidious and it was expensive then right now you know you have a phone anyone can be a phone maker and if he has an ID you know to to to fil it and to achieve it and it's kind of the same thing with AI just for a whole new at a whole new level you know you can imagine whatever whatever you have in your mind you can really uh do it so that's I think that's something that's that's really amazing and that's something that's also for the industries a lot of people are scared for sure um but the good ones will remain you know you will still what do you see um in people you know in your industry at your age who are ad adopter like where do you see the adoption is going up right do you see 5% people adopting it 95% really don't care about it you see 10% people adopting it like in your network what you are seeing overall I think it will be like you know maybe up to 30% of people that are really embracing it and using and not just embracing it like okay I'm I'm for AI but really using it on a on a day-to-day basis yeah I would say like yeah maybe a third of other people uh and there's like maybe a thir that is really like N I don't want to have anything to do with AI That's that goes against a lot of jobs and everything and a lot of talented people are like hey you know I'm I'm an illustrator uh I won't have a job in like a year or two if that continues but there's also a lot of people that like hey I'm an illustrator but that can helps me in my job so there's really a different perspective on that really a there's not really a gray area I think in terms of AI opinion it's whether all white or all black um but maybe the people from my generation I'm assuming are really more keen to using it and implementing it as you know and you have to you just I think you don't you won't have the choice in the end Choice that's what you're saying yeah exactly you have to to stay and and if and if not using it on the day-to-day business you know at least know that it's out there and everything you can do with it uh then it's your choice to use it or not but you know be aware of everything that's going out right so uh since you are one of our honored jury members uh when film uh submissions are being made uh what do you think the what you expecting from those films like which are getting submitted like for the films which be which you plan to really look at and try to you know uh uh give them better points points uh what do you see is should be really important in those movies what are the things you're looking at for the people who are submitting their films what will be looking in terms in terms of the quality sound you know what what is it uh that would impress you um the the main thing that I'm looking for every time is like the idea that's behind it and the intention meaning that uh like you mentioned sound if your sound design is like not perfectly balanced or uh or there's some artifacts and everything if I'm getting the point and the idea that's behind it that's for me it's not a it's better if it's done right but uh it's it's it's the most important thing you know having that idea um having and kind of like I said with Sora you know having like H hyper photo realistic shots but there's not really a story behind it there's not consistency within the characters within the locations and everything MH yeah it's beautiful um but you know the whole point every time is to tell a story uh so yeah the Heidi and and and the story behind it um is really the main thing that I'm looking for like and if even if something is not uh in terms of craft perfectly done if the ID behind it is is is is great that's something that I will you know put above from my perspective it's it's always like yeah what's what was your idea what was your intention um that's the most important important thing the everything else is like Technical and it's really important but that's something that people can learn pretty easily but you know having a great ID and and and and trying to put it um uh trying to make something out of it that's the hardest part for me from my perspective right so suppose um youve uh you know you so there are different Industries where this media could be used you have social media you have the advertising industry you have the television industry you have the film industry so do you see there is more adoption at the social media and advertising industry now like many people are already using it uh and then there's a slow adoption at the TV and uh the film industry because they are long format and you know it really requires more sopis sophisticated tools what's your thoughts on this uh I think yeah uh TV and advertising are maybe the first one to use it at a almost an industrial level um because we're are the ones who are who have how do I say that um cost efficiency and timings are really an issue it's also an issue of course for long longer forms of films within within the industry but and it's always been that way like advertising as almost every time being like you know at the Vanguard of technological advances um so I can't really speak for the industry of you know long short frames Hollywood and everything uh but I'm guessing you know they have also it's not the same budgets that we have in advertising uh so I think they have more possibilities to still go the the traditional way um but for yeah for advertising especially within advertising agencies it's so competitive as in environments so to be able to say to your clients hey I can do m exactly what you did with that other agency but here we use AI so we can do it for half the money and half the timing MH that's something that's really useful um maybe not so in for movie studios and everything I'm guessing Okay so I think that's why they use the most and in social media I don't really see how it's used in social media meaning um if it's for from Brand perspective or video cont story right just create some brand stories even create some you know uh I mean when we look at advertising it's mainly for the big Brands uh who go for the big budget big advertising uh they could do a photos shoot actual physical versus AI now gives them a very good choice but uh for social media I mean I'm proberbly assuming people would use this to create like simple like you you could create like long form content convert into video text to you know those things M yeah mainly as we we're using it uh in social media it's more of a you know like for a product uh we can do hundreds of uh steel assets for a product launch for for instance we can do it fully in AI we don't need to shoot we done everything can be done and we can done like we can do like 100 or 200 or 300 assets um for a brand for a product like a skincare product or anything you know like a p shot of a product um so that's really something that's the way we are using it right now um but not so much into like image to video It's Still Still images uh but yeah you know it's it's going so fast with AI that everything that I'm saying right now will be maybe obsolete in two months or three months uh which is what is amazing I think things will change right that's what for sure so also I mean I'm reaching towards the end of a conversation here but I think you have any message to people why they should attend these kind of AI film festivals what is the value they can drive from these festivals based on your experience attending other festivals or being part of those festivals um how do you think it can really help the people who are joining this well for me the main thing uh that is important when you enter a festival is the the the film that you enter but it's also everything that you will be able to see um look at everything that the the other filmmakers are doing uh having to maybe you know connect with them later and talk about the films like hey I I love that idea how to do it and hey that was great how to do it also and you know you always get ideas uh from exchanging with our people from seeing things um it's how you build up also your your own abilities you know just seeing and seeing and seeing and something that will go into your mind like maybe if you don't realize it but uh you know you need to I don't know it's like a writer he needs to read a lot of books and a lot of books and it's the same thing with for AI filmmakers and yeah will maybe give you a ideas of hey I didn't thought about how to make that shot but that guy managed or that woman Managed IT and so that's something that I may use but in another way for another story that I want to tell it's everything it's so yeah there's so many things to to to get from from those events um but yeah connect with all people talk talk about it with the other filmmakers that are in the competition uh and just you know watch all of the works you will you will always learn something from it even something that you you feel like hey that's not the kind of movie that I'm particularly interested in but there will always be an idea that you can pull out from that absolutely I think okay Pier I think that lends us to the end of our discussion here it's been real pleasure to talk to pier and I think want to thank you for taking your time out today and also you know being part of our jury really looking forward to uh you know get great movies uh sent out to you for your judgment and hopefully uh during course of this there's there's a lot uh improvements happen I think uh the event is happens in December so we still have few months and on behalf of s I want to wish you all the best for your new uh new company which you're getting into next two weeks and hopefully you know get you take you to the next level wherever you imagin yourself and you get to work with really top-notch people so thanks again for your time thanks a lot for the uh for the invite thanks a lot for the talk and uh yeah looking forward to to that event same here bye now bye thanks [Music]