it's great to connect with you both um I I found your story arcs quite compelling this season so congratulations Charlie you didn't know that you were going to play the character of Sauron originally um so how was that uh how did you make that shift how was that shift in your mind and your brain and this season how long did it take you to get to used to the Elven ears that we see you the um the shift in my mind was it was more of a Rel Le when I found out that Hal brand was Sauron it was probably the third episode I'd kind of heard whisperings that I might have been and a couple of my audition monologues made me slightly suspicious cuz I auditioned as Satan and also as um Richard III so it was more of a relief to be like okay now I can really sink my teeth into this to this character and I'd done a bit of Sauron research but now it's just like I can just go wholehearted and to be honest there was something extra nice about playing a character from the cannon because you have a lot of stuff to um inspire you in tolk's uh work and the L is it adds an hour and a half to the morning which is a whole new thing getting out of bed an hour and a half earlier but I made some really close friends who are actually my prosthetic artists um which has been one of the joys of the job yeah I love that thank you uh Charles your character goes through quite a bit this season wow um what do you feel fans will be most surprised about in your character's Evolution or Devolution here that's a very good question um I hope they will be intrigued by the ways in which we have chosen to um illustrate his journey um tolken gives us um the sign posts of events and it's our job to swing between those signposts like like Vines and jungle filling it filling it in and to to um to color it in and so I I don't know what they'll be surprised by I think the probably the most likely the the Despair and the depths to which season 8 season 2 um takes us in the during this story um there are some brilliant tricks in there there's some very dastardly mind games there's some some bullying there's some gaslighting there's all kinds of uh dark details that have that have found their way into this story and it's been hugely satisfying to to play I love that uh thank you for that Charlie uh in Flash forwarding to the final episode um was there anything that really surprised you as things came to a close for the season yeah I think I was surprised in a good way I think about sauron's Journey throughout the whole season is is that when I read the anatar story and it's it's sketched in not much detail in um the of the Rings of power in the S melan when I read this you know sort of bringing it to life I was surprised by how it's not like Sauron is manipulating everything and everything's falling into place for him he has to fight a lot to have things go his way and there's he has a lot of um obstacles I guess and that right up to the final scene and not everything is perfect for him and I really enjoyed delving into that I love it I love the series thank you so much for what you both bring to it congratulations thank you appreciate your time