[Music] hi I'm Bill Crystal welcome back to conversations I'm very pleased to be joined Again by James Carville with whom we had a discussion well with whom I had a discussion what five weeks ago which stands up quite well quite well you were pretty bullish on Harris's chances and on the convention uh then after the convention I guess it slipped back to maybe an even race so last night was the debate we're speaking here on what is it September 11th uh where where do we stand what do you think well I uh Fox ran a story about the night before the debate I I did Dan Abrams show and I said look I'll be honest with you I think joh fcing into a trap and I I had some I knew who was in the prep room and they were the right people and I I I thought that she would do very well I thought he would be typically undisciplined and he was me Laura lumer there playing with him you know uh so yeah I think it went very well it's hard to you know I was texting people last night and as you have been around Democratic culture a little bit more you know there's a great deal of negativity I mean you it's smart if you say something's wrong and I had a friend of mine who's actually very smart and this person text me I wish you to talk more about the middle class and I said did you see the first seven minutes of the debate I mean she was laying out child tax edits and then everything that you could I I think this person was just being felt like they had to be nitpicky and the stuff that I would get via text last night was very nitpicky but you think she I mean getting under uh his skin which was I think the main which she obviously did and which really is driving a lot of the coverage at least as of now the next day of the debate it was very noticeable at the time I mean people now talk about it as well of course she got under his skin but I don't think that's that easy to I mean it wasn't so obvious that that was going to work at least to me I thought you did it very skillfully don't you think I did and I you know I thought the biggest challenge she had was to people don't know her I think they found out a little bit about more about her last night and there were 28% I saw one poll I hate to quote one poll but remember in the back of my mind it was a deep pretty good one said 28% were open for more information about her and 9% were open for more information about him that last night couldn't be anything but good in that sense I I you know you usually try to play these events down well it's pretty good but you yeah you know 63 to 37 said she w a debate somebody told me a reliable person i' seen it myself Pluff said that the somebody that they both did dowal groups and they were about the same you know showed what you'd expect them to show and on the abortion question it was a 40 Point Advantage I think of which is unheard of uh so I I I can't tell you you know people said well the convention didn't change much it actually did change a little bit if you look at favorability and other things were better I I think last night I think be can't tell you it's going to be dramatic changes but I I would be a little disappointed if she didn't have some better from people more familiar with her and a little bit more of a positive opinion and the biggest thing she did was talking about turning the page that that was and hopefully he looks stale and yesterday and I think he kind of did well this is what you stressed four or five weeks ago and I really think she she very much stressed that she had that line that I think was prepared I at one point when he I guess he was going out about the Biden Harris Administration blaming her for things she and she said I'm I'm not Joe Biden I'm certainly not Donald Trump and she sort of took the edge off the first half of that sentence in a sense you know by making it an anti-trump thing ultimately but I think she really wanted to say that don't you think she wanted to say those words I'm not Joe Biden oh she she went in I was very clear that she needed to kind of separate herself from Biden I mean that's not being disrespectful of anybody people understand that what what she has here bill is when you think about it she has a lot of strategic space I mean she has Dick Cheney and prila jao in her Coalition okay that's not going to last very long but for right now hey whatever you got to say I'm fine with it I I mean she and so now the question is does she pivot okay I hate that word but just people use it all the time and what I think she has licensed to do is I think the part's whatever we consider it's base will allow her great leeway in appealing to more unaligned voters and and that's that and Trump doesn't have in in abortion he's caught he doesn't have very much strategic space at all because if he goes one way the pro-life people get furious he goes another way in the the people that he needs to supplement his Bas get furious he's he's caught in a pretty pretty bad place there and I can't think of an issue where she doesn't have space to operate yeah well I was struck by that so let's just talk let me get back to one question about the votes I mean I I think some people you know the race is over last night and all other people The Other Extreme the debate it's not clear it'll change any vote share any ballot test even though she won the debate I did see one someone told me about a uh a private you know Super PAC that was doing its own focus groups and dial testing that actually asked the ballot didn't just ask who won the debate but asked the you know are you like these were undecided voters and soft supporters of both Harris and Trump and there was pretty good movement I mean it wasn't you know 8020 it was more like 45 25 but with about 35 still saying I want to know more but that's pretty surprising I think for a debate it usually doesn't move the ballot as much at all I mean do you think we will see actual movement in the in the polls I I I I I hope so but I'm not very good at predicting these things in proba neither as anybody else of course say this up front you know but let's just take the economy because I'm working on a piece and the question is not is it a good economy or a bad economy I mean that's you can ask that it's fine but have we got to the point where people feel like they have something to lose but maybe it's not what I wanted to be I was of Wall Street Journal today was for the first time incomes are up since the end of the pandemic 4% is pretty good and theyjust for inflation and everything else when they do that it's just not a number they pull out we know the stock market is good and we know that has an you know so said well I don't like it overall but if Trump gets in there you know and they did a good job of highest TOS would be bad and economy status would be bad some sitting there saying well you know I got a little bit more than I thought I did I tip a little bit higher I buy Extra Magazine at the airport I mean you you you know in your own kind of behavior other people feel the same way so I I I think she can she don't need to tell people the economy is great but I think she's now has license to say you have something to lose and I think I think that's a important threshold cross yeah that's interesting so what I mean any issues that leapt out to to you last night and that we'll go forward uh that either slight vulnerabilities for her just to get on the naysaying side again or real strengths that she can just continue to to exploit anything that got you slightly worried or other things that really thought you thought man she can really go to town on this you know still needs to because they're going to continue on the 2020 foolishness and she's answered it but not she have to do it a little bit better and I think she can uh but she looked like she knew what she was talking about I mean she didn't look vapid at all she didn't look you know when you introduce somebody as a for former you know prosecutor Attorney General United States Center vice president see honestly what a a person from PO is not particularly engaged so I don't know if she's qualified I said I tell you what in terms of qualifications you know most qualified person to run non-incumbents is maybe old man Bush but you could say what you wanted anybody but he was qualified by any fres of imagination I think she is too but less well known I mean she doesn't she had the virtue we discussed this a month ago of not having a primary of course and getting the nomination and this somewhat bizarre and unusual way she had the deficiency of not having to go through a year of debates and speeches and tough interviews and so I mean that was why I was nervous last few days she's just presidential debate as you know is its own thing and she's never done one of those and she's done one VP debate four years ago and and not a whole ton of real big interviews over the last four years it was impressive that she was as poised and in commanded as she was I thought so I was told I okay that Philip Reigns who played Trump who's very good at it I mean he be play like these guys like almost it's a like golf to them I mean they they practice all the time and he was some sort of in debate for I was told I can't verify is that he actually kind of dressed like Trump he had like a blue suit and a red tie took too long uh but he he has all of the mannerisms down and I don't I didn't have the sense that she was surprised by anything and I had the sense that she was prepared and and you you could see the answer not I'm not Joe Biden but I'm not you either but she was waiting for that you you know that and you know that they said okay slow down to say this and there was a guy in debate prep I'm told by the name of Michael she who was like an MVP that no one ever heard of I've never I to 1986 on I would never do a debate without Michael and he this is where you look at when you say the line you know say it five times you know the camera angle would which she wore I was like I like the outfit she had on when she went on the stage and I think it sort of startled Trump because she's a a what I'd call a handsome looking woman you know she's tall and she looks authoritative and I thought she kind of sexist to say it but who gives a now I thought she was dressed very well for it and I think her appearance probably rattled him a little bit out of the shoot do you think her walking over to shake his hand which I don't think he expected I thought that was great she wanted him to get a good look at yeah and you remember the last Democratic candidate he got a good look at was President B which you know not exactly GNA scare you off the stage yeah I know I think her going over there and being un at all totally unintimidated that was pretty interesting oh oh oh int and very very good will there be another debate there'll be a debate over the debates because now Trump is saying he won 91% says he won he didn't think they need another she said that she's willing I prior to last night and you know given the latest beta po what a lot of different B but Democrats were getting alarmed they will feel a little bit better she's more in control of things now than he is this is what's changed he's you know some fine and then he'll come up and then we'll have a long debate about debates and whether or not she should do long form interviews or sit down and this is inevitable but if the subtle change in position is very favorable to her as she deals with these things going forward I think it's such an important point it's it doesn't always show up as you say in the actual you know ballot tests and the polls and so forth but somehow I do feel like there was an inflection point and she now can sort of shape things in a way that wasn't clear that she could a couple of days ago I would never let a post it they do what they call a D battery Bill crystal is right-wing authoritarian they said in some Bed Piece and such and such the question is not do do you agree disagree with Bill Crystal statement the question was are you more or less likely to vote for Bill Crystal haven't heard this all right that's always what and I hate they used to hate to get these questions I don't care if people agree or disagree with it all right but what I want to know is does this drive voting behavior because it's the only thing you really care about and you made a very astute point that at least one person we know we don't know for sure that it did Drive some it did change votes and that that the question is not who you think won the debate is are you more less likely you might ask you a little bit broader having seen this debate are you more less likely to vote for Harris or Trump than which is a much better framing of of the question so what does she do now do you think I mean I there's people she's got to get out there and do a million interviews other people no no no you you really need to send to take a week to capitalize on this and ride this white wave as long as you can and how how does this work you've been you've been you've been in '92 we were joking about this before we the camera started rolling we you you were there with Bill Clinton had a very good debate in against George HW Bush in I guess mid- October 92 and I mean how do you capitalize on on a good debate well I think you're going to see it I think Crow they ask me about immigration this is buff they asked him about immigration I love it we need to talk about the issues if Trump just went out and okay said ask immigration that was the strongest issue and he started talking about crowds sign if I was his campaign manager I I'd have stuck a in my eye all right so and I I love this you know lindsy Graham if you just go out and talk about the issues it's all gonna be fine of course you can't do that and he gets the immigration question by way she had pretty good she I think she did pretty well on on that question but he didn't even take advantage of that cuz he's so massive he's a massively insecure person that that's the thing to remember about Trump and we always miss that point because his people think he's you know so ordained by God and King SS and everything but he is just insecure about his hand size he's insecure about his hair he's insecure about the fact that he's never been part of the Manhattan Elite he's insecure about a lot and you can just see that coming out he's just a massively insecure guy and was on display you know I thought that was a key so that was the began of the economy where I think she did fine but he did his thing then they went to abortion where she did very well and he's weak on that but then they came to immigration I think despite all the talk about the ABC people were so tough on Trump that was a pretty good sequence for Trump I mean he got his economy first then he got immigration third and she gave a good answer I agree better than you know she emphasized the bipartisan Bill the Trump torpedo and so forth and she's stuck in there and it really was kind of stuck in this didn't have anything to do with it this the crowd size point right she's the one who said and incidentally his speeches are boring and the crowds are leaving before they're over and it didn't have much to do with the immigration answer but she that was very well done he couldn't resist right I mean he as you say he missed of the 120 seconds of what is his best issue because he couldn't resist saying no there that's totally wrong about the crowds I it just said you but I love the issues oh you know if we just forgot everything and we just voted on the issues but the most popular thing that you can propose in American politics was is and will be raising taxes over people that make over half million dollar a year I tell you that but that's that that's the issue that will get you 73% every time but yeah I thought that was hilarious when he had a chance to run with the issue even at the crowd size do you I mean my people a lot of people been saying she should do follow up with a lot of interviews I'm not really sure that's right I mean what do you what do you think is a tactical matter here but I I don't know I don't I don't think the public really cares if she sits down with a half hour with Caitlyn college right or with anybody else I I mean it's become they always have to say something all right whatever you do it's never going to be satisfactory and I got some text this morning from some reporter do you think she needs to sit down I I'm not sure she does at all and the big question people are going to have is are we gonna have another debate or not that's what people give a about right right then I don't know what the audience was last tonight but it was a lot it was tens of millions easily and who's who wants to sit there and watch you know meet de press for 40 minutes where you just grilled I mean not very many people on not against meet de press been very good to my family but that that's just not where people are I mean I I was thinking about this yeah I don't and also I just think you can make one slight slip up and suddenly that becomes the story and I I think you can ride this debate for maybe I'm wrong though for quite a while I it was a very big deal tens of millions of people watched it it's now going to have second and third day you know followup in terms of Clips being shown do you agree with that I mean she has some time here to ride this right I I I totally agree with it and one of the things that really conspired against him was the last debate was maybe the most significant presidential debate in presidential debate history mean it end up put a candidate having drop out of race so I think just heightened and I also really believe that the Trump people and even some of the non-trump people thought he was a great debat he's never been I mean his played against Biden which is like beating the Chicago White Socks or something I mean everybody does that but um and a big question I think is it will let be another and she says okay I'm fine with that and he said well I don't know if I need one and of course they will come they'll figure something out and when you're asked the inevitable question when are you going to do long for interv you says I'm ready to do another debate I want to do it where most people see it and I have best chance to make my case and you're never going to satisfy him that that so it doesn't matter just forget about it and just keep talking about the next debate no that's good I like that no I'm very I'm slightly against the the interview uh Focus I just think you it can trip you up in a way that's not helpful and she's already made her key points she could I mean the other way to go might be or a way to go would be to give some set speeches on major issues that is a tradition that presidential candidates do Bill Clinton did it in the fall of 91 she never had a chance to do it in a sense but you could and and those would they might not be fascinating millions of people aren't going to watch them but from a media point of view you give your serious speech at George Town on foreign policy and your serious speech at some economic Club on economic policy ecomic Club this is kind of G I don't know why destroy EC but it's easy to get to it's it sounds very Middle America you know industrial back but what and what's wrong with that yeah Georgetown Clinton we did our foreign policy speech in Georgetown close by everybody knows it's got a good brand take advantage of it she could do a a China speech right all right you know talk about how it's a adversary but not an enemy of you know there a standard foreign policy Foreign Affairs magazine you but you can do that and it's got to be covered and it will and she can make news like that she can do New Economic stuff she can talk about how terorists you know have a a very checked history of you know doing any good I mean there's a thousand things that she can do and she can actually take five or six questions of which you can plant too okay this one of the things should never do a town hall a speech you can't plant all the questions because it'll be evident that they were planted but you can Mr Christ you're in the back oh GE I GL you ask that question thought about it right now but God she's pretty good on her feet she Bill Crystal asked her a question and she had thought about it and of course I thought about it for five hours I'm shocked to even hear this discussion of uh being anything less than perfectly straightforward in a uh in a campaign but I do think the the speeches might answer sort of the media complaints about about policy and also let her develop some policy stuff which could be it's a way of going to the center in a very careful way it seems to me where you could write it up ahead of time so you're not you know you don't inadvertently get into some controversy where Bernie say is attacking you for the next three or four days I'm not sure that would hurt but still I think that I would be surpris you didn't do some of that yeah for me of course as a McCain person I love the moment when she went out of her way again this was clearly planned in the in discussing Obamacare and healthc care which not a McCain special issue unlike foreign policy she went out of her way to REM remind everyone of the moment when McCain showed up on the floor of the Senate when he was already ill and with the thumb thumbs down and she was a Senator then so it was appropriate for her to reminisce about that but it was a way of her to say her to say the late great John McCain and you know and then Trump had to remind everyone why he didn't like McCain I mean it was just but there quite a lot of people voted for McCain you know and so there's some some number of them probably hadn't was interested that she respects McCain and and spoke well of him Jimmy a son who every time I would see s m I think Jimmy was in the Marine I think he was in listed Marine for a while yes I think he was and he'd always bring up Jimmy to me and I didn't say like what Dick Cheney he didn't like say I'm torn I I can't me I'm voting for Harris and I keep hearing from a lot of people and the same thing is true of you know the bull walk people and other people like I'm we're fires that's it we're not we're not like reluctantly and you know we've been sucked into this if that's just where we are and you keep hearing about these people uh I won't say their names with the initials are Rex Tillerson and Jim Mattis how much they hate Trump and what you know what a giant fool he is but they won't say anything well if Dick Cheney came out you can come out and just say simply voting for Harris it's not that hard you might lose a couple of gen Romy Partners at the Dallas Country Club but such as life they're all about to make sacrifices don't we it's yeah it's striking how many of them don't want to quite cross that bridge they'll say n you know things even they s a public about Trump's lack of judgment and all this other stuff and then they won't quite pull the trigger so to speak right do what di chany did yeah okay just I'm voting I'm voting for haris it's I mean maybe you don't want to go as far as Liz with and Endor Colin Alfred okay I can buy that but but it's that don't think it's necessary but just say and I do think that the Cheney saying that is going to make some difference I mean it you kind of know where where it'll make a difference is there just certain people you know most of them in pretty affluent traditionally Republican areas that said well you know Chene is doing it I guess I can do it too I mean it needed some permission to do what they kind of inclined to do in the first place and I think it was it was important and I wish more of these types would come out and just say you don't have to say anything more then I'm going to cast my vote for Harris in coming presidential election that's it you don't need any more than that EV why yeah as someone who's been involved in the attempt to get Republicans to come out for Harris against Trump and then for Harris I'd say there's a lot of skepticism would it really matter you know but I I do you think it would especially if there were more don't you think there's some critical mass and I mean if George W bush for example why is he being so quiet incidentally what's what's that about you know a lot of them are just torn by this I I don't know ASM I don't think know you know hopefully I I think Cheney was bigger than Jia I think it gave people more of a license I don't know how quantify that but it look I think it's going to be a huge number of votes no but you know it it make a difference in a lot of places that make a difference you know some Buckhead and places like that uh a lot of places in Maric County you know Scottdale where you probably wouldn't going to lose on a normal election 6832 might lose 65 35 that's you accumulate enough of that you you can do pretty good yeah there are a lot of people there are people who there's the George W bush Paul Ryan of the world they're the people who served in Trump's own cabinet and own White House the John Kelly are the world you say Tillerson I mean there's a big fairly substantial pool of people who could say look I'm not going to attack the guy for 10 minutes I'm not going to discuss private conversations we have in the over us I'm just going to give you my judgment he shouldn't be president again and I'm going to vote for Harris don't you think that would be enough like those wow counties in Wisconsin there like Suburban kind of Republican traditional Republican counties around Milwaukee I bet you that he doesn't that Trump does less well there than than that you would think and I think that's where this matters well that would really be something but you think it still would help to get more some comfort numbers I do I do I think you you need to you know people just need an extra shove to because it's hard if you've been you know if I had to vote for I mean I voted Democratic all my life and kind of a it's in the DNA and it's hard to abandon your DNA and let you yes I do and I think it is it it by the way for every voter in Milwaukee kind of lethargic lowens voter you get out you get a one Buck for every wow County Republican and you turn around you get a net two yeah all right which is I'd rather have a net two than one I take both but you know you don't have to make a choice between the two at all the gender gap do you agree that it's could be bigger than ever in this election or is that people say that all the time it doesn't quite work what was your and what what's your thought on that I I've always been worried about out males and there's just yes females all more Point M by Factor probably 52 to 48 right 48 is a big number in American I hope the gender cap closes but it closes in a way that we don't lose females you know but we pick up more and we may and I have kind of thought you know how we have every cycle there's a fashionable demogra demographic NASCAR dce Saka bombs National Security the year of the black female okay I actually think the the demographic that may have the most elasticity in this cycle might be white college males well a they are tend to be much more pro-choice than non-college white males B they're probably doing because of the markets and other stuff I don't have the figure in front of me but I'm pretty safe in saying it more College white mailes and stock market and other demographics and that we are the least fashionable demographic in America but you could listen to NV two weeks and not even know that we exist right but I I do think there's some elasticity in upward movement for her among College white males interesting well that would be worth really looking at right I I it's Instinct I don't have a I can't go to a well of polling data or anything but I it's it it seems like there's real chances there I think the abortion stuff is really can open up some opportunities there and I suppose just the Trump looking kind of crazy and chaotic and these people right yeah if you're a bit like Banker you're not you're not press what you right at all on the 2019 2020 issues that you mentioned where she took these left wing positions uh which she's walked away from but hasn't really explained much why she changed her mind um any ones that strike you particular particular vulnerabilities that you think the Trump people are just going to hammer for the next week or two or three as they try to recover from the debate oh there me she has brought abilities I mean every kind of silly thing they thought she i' I'd love to know who the political consultant was I told her to do that because he should be sarily or she should be sarily horse whipped yeah uh it was a really strange time in a Democratic party where I I don't know people collectively thought this was the wave of the future and because it was no such thing and uh she's just going to have to say that she grew and experience and I mean there's there's good answers to it I don't know can't tell you there's great answers to it but and she she needs to deal with it in a I wish it have come up more last night I think you think it want I think you want to get it out of the way that where you do a long form interview you gotta always want the question so you know if I potion somebody once you have a sense that you don't you you I hope they don't ask about this then you've lost you got to affirm say I I I want him to ask me about that because I'm I'm ready for it cuz in anything in life if you you want to avoid talking about something it comes up you're not going to do it very well you got to put in your mind I want that question and I think she can do that thing last night gave her didn't understand she hadn't been on a national stage that long her presidential race was disastrous she had a a not particularly Stellar first two and a half three years as vice president and she's got a big feeling today like God damn I can do this and she should I mean just's reasons that she should I me confidence is a big big thing in a candidate big thing yeah talk more about that I'm so interested by I mean you've been through these campaigns and what do we have a little less than eight weeks left here so we speak on September 11th and it's just psych I how will it go now I mean how how fast is the pace how crazy is it does she have time to step back and and say well I really need to address some of these uh get out of the way almost some of these subjections about what I said in the past maybe I'll give a set speech on that next week or is it just frantic for events a day I mean what both what what will it be like and and how much fast how fast and furious will everything be and and what how much can she make it a certain way well all right we got some markers coming up so September 11th today we you can do but the big marker coming up is October Su interesting okay that's it's going to be a bucket load of coverage is that it's a lot of uncomfortableness everywhere but particularly in some quarters of the democratic party and if if I'm her I got this thing bookmarked you know and maybe that's a time to give a speech on you know uh foundations of Middle East policy or something like that I I don't know but you're not going to escape October 7 I think October 7th is a more relevant date than September the 11th not that I think it's a more relevant event anything like that but one is 23 years ago and one is not even a year ago right and it's they got to be aware of that that's that's a big date and that that's clearly a place where she could know give a speech and take some questions and that kind of stuff yeah that's interesting and I guess in general I I'm struck that you're tell me if I'm correctly interpreting this that you're saying that you don't obviously she'll capitalize on her strengths you know the issues she's got a big advantage on over Trump and the characteristics personal characteristics she has an advantage on but she also needs to you need to play some defense at the same time that you're playing offense and and you know prop up your your your walls your protection on some of these things where they are going to come after whether it's I guess immigration or crime or some of the stuff in 2019 2020 and maybe I mean that yeah I mean it be mistake to think that she had a good debate and therefore she can just forget about all these other things are done finished no no we didn't you know October 7th is going to come and it's gonna get a lot of potention yeah and these other issues they will make they will give them some attention anything uh VP debate October 1st I guess that's scheduled I guess that will happen will it matter well you see he threw Vance under the bus last night is that right yeah well Paris said vice president JD Vance said this well I talked to him about that it was I think it was on an abortion question oh right right yeah right um the guy is just been a massive disappointment and he hears stuff it you know particularly from these right-wing Catholics and he goes out repeats it like it's really I know and you know the childless cat lady thing came right out of Tucker's mouth in his ear and out of his mouth okay then that's that's so Tucker esque it's not even you don't have to think twice where that came from but by record he used to work for Bill I used to do a TV show we talk we know him quite well you know that came you know that's where it came from and boy I tell you in and she made reference but what you look for in politics is something sticky that that somebody and sometimes it's like unjustified you know the potato incident or or something that you can't I didn't have sex with that woman I mean I could think of many many things on our side also but the the childless cat lady thing it's now standing you only need to explain it to people and then they started talking about the immigrants eating cats like okay you you you're just bringing more attention to it it it it can't they can't get away from it and uh you know it's go have the people are kind of watch it because Vance is a kind of object of curiosity you know he's kind of shown himself to be something weird about that guy and uh it it's going to be it'll get it'll get it'll it'll have some play it'll have some play yeah maybe more than a typical VP debate like yeah like our undercard debate like ours was yeah you all we had the famous 1988 John Kennedy was a friend of mine you know thank you for reminding it's good that you bring up all the potato John Kennedy a friend of mine you know you don't even have to explain these things anymore they just have become part of you know Biden were gonna get rid of Medicare what they said you know but it it's just funny how Biden doesn't exist anymore and you could see she was waiting for that I'm not Joe Biden okay that that was that was in her equ she was ready for that she wanted to say that and then I'm of course I'm not you either and that was a a good Breakaway moment for yeah I was I've been very on the negative side for Harris I've worried a lot about the incumbency just can't walk away from it you're the vice president it's a wrong track you know country thinks two-thirds were on the wrong track uh Biden's not po doesn't have a high favorable rating so how do you and I got to say that's the attack on her is you know far left I think I'm not sure how successful it was but that Trump did try to do last night the actual tying Biden Administration things around Harris's neck didn't do that much of it I generally she's paid less of a price for for that than I would have thought in this campaign I mean do you think she still could or is it just she's she's just so different from Biden that it doesn't quite stick you know you know there's simple fact of American politics you have to acknowledge the Democrats just have not lost in election since stops and I include 2022 in that I I don't think this Administration is any less popular today than it was in October November 2022 no that's for sure yeah and you know I've always alluded cracks up all these people that say this is what the Democratic part all these Republicans has always been Republicans giv advice to Democrats right but this is what you really need to do to get your house in order I'm like well if the measure is winning elections we really don't need to get our house in order we doing fine if it's something else maybe we do uh so I I I think there's evidence if had a bucket load of special elections or referenda a lot there's been a lot of political activity since the summer of 2022 and it's been almost universally favorable to Democrats which is in in a environment where the Democratic presidential Administration is certainly You' say it's not particularly popular and you think that's mostly jobs it's the first play I I I suspect it is I mega event that would account for winning elections when you're not particular popular at the top I yeah I think it is dos and I thought she did a good haris did a good job last night of saying a you appointed these three justices who made overturning row possible and B she referred over and over to the Trump abortion bans in these different states because it you know you could Trump has in his mind that he can get out of it by saying it's a state's issue not a national issue now but maybe not not quite so easy right and then there's the question would you veto an AB National Abortion ban and all that stuff right you you know in Democrats people would not trust us on taxes we'd come out and say oh no we're from middle class TA or they don't trust the Republicans on abortion they don't give a what they say I know who these people are they're just saying that to say that and the harder they try this is another thing I noticed about Trump last night most great politicians in people like Reagan and Clinton and even Obama come to M you never saw them sweat they never look desperate of course they were trying very hard better as you can be and he looked like he was really trying last night he was when the abortion thing he was talking fast you could see he was nervous he was trying to talk around it and I think voter about got a little bit of a sense of that he do like it of course he didn't believe about abortion as everybody wanted all the legal Scholars everybody wanted return to states of course but it doesn't do any good to argue with him on that and I think she did a pretty you know a good job of humanizing the issue yeah know I thought she that was that was impressive well you go a few minutes but any I mean last words for vice president Harris herself uh for governor walls for the campaign strategists still long way to go but yeah i' say there a long way to go people still For Better or Worse know Trump they both know who you you are and Trump are they're pretty convinced that they know and what Trump is there's still I know you had a great debate you had a great convention but there still you you still have some more to fill out here uh there's no doubt about that and you know you got some you know look always look at the calendar okay it it it make the calendar your friend uh and I do think that they need to look at the fact that they my sense is there's a little economic momentum out there and it's based on some improved consumer confidence numbers and stuff like that you sure certainly shouldn't go out and tell the people that the economy is great or good but you can sort of imply that you have something at risk now this is not you know you start put laying tariffs on everything and start doing a lot of Herky jerky stuff you you could you can make things worse and I I think that's real opportunity to have yeah that's interesting because I mean Biden was criticized including by you and others you know you can't tell people the econom is fine don't wor you know you don't believe what you're seeing but you think there is now a chance not to say that but to build on what is probably slightly better setes of things also I guess the fed's going to cut rates in a week right a week from today that's a big event September 18th okay put that on your schedule you know o we talked about October 7th all right September 18th is going to be a big event because we I I know we know they're going to cut rates we we think it's a quarter point it may be a half point I mean but but s going to pick up the paper or the site or whatever they get they new and they're going to say this interest rates may may come down you know I'm not sure we're not going be a you I can see myself maybe getting that house a little bit down the road but they didn't we don't we can't remember interest rate Cuts you know what our whole recent memory is is just keep I don't quite understand how to do that but I I've seen people complain a lot about the FED I don't know how you could do it much better than they've done it honestly I I mean we've gotten rid of inflation we hadn't had massive Unemployment uh yeah I'll go to hell in a hand basket tomorrow I'm not suggesting anything other than that but there a guy jumped out of the 40 story building and said as he passed the 20th story so far so good always tell after the first year in November always worth reminding people of that uh famous line and may maybe maybe next week is the next the 19th is the time when you give your economic speech you know build on whatever positive momentum there is after the FED after the fed the 19th yeah right it I'm all for the Detroit economic got I think we're it's good that we're scheduling the Harris campaign here for them I'm sure they'll they appreciate they appreciate this work that we're doing I'm sure they all listen yeah glued to the to the podcast I love the yeah I hope so I'll let you go but I love that I love the you know as you pass this front of the floor everything's fine I mean it reminds me it's so much in the same Spirit as my favorite John McCain line that you know that he used to love using in speeches that it's always uh It's always darkest before it turns pitch black you know it's a certain I like that yeah because you expect the darkest hours before done it gets dark and then it gets really dark that was very mechan like but um anyway James any last words or we're good now we're good hope get together after the election hopefully yeah maybe even if there's another debate we should do another one absolutely I love doing it I love the work that bwog does I think it's really important work and uh you know I think we have some opportunities here and once we get this thing once this crisis passes you know maybe we can all get back to the way we were but we're not we don't have that luxury right now no not we sure don't for the next two months James thanks very much and thank you all for joining us on conversations if you enjoyed this video and would like to see more like it please don't forget to like And subscribe your interest in this program means a lot to me I appreciate it