welcome to the r podcast I'm in the studio today with high performance mindset Coach Joe mountford creator of player wellness program Beat It with Joe and my neighbor so this is really cool welcome to the studio Joe thank you Kate and thank you very much for inviting me I'm so excited to be here with you neighbor I know um we've spoken obviously not in the studio um about beat it with um and it's really opened up my mind to what high performance mindset coaching is um but can you give me again a bit of a run through tell me what Beat It with Joe is and what is it you do thank you Kate so the Beat It with Joe is a player wellness program as you said and I've really looked at athletes and people as whole people and so so first of all I'm a therapist and so I look at helping people heal and develop holistically and then I'm also a Clifton strengths coach where I look at how people are at their best so that it's a psychometric assessment which people do and it assesses where they can be the best version of themselves and I help coach them in that area and then the other thing that I do to help people perform Under Pressure to Focus their attention and to be absolutely optimal is something called gazing red to blue okay and that's where the high performance performing under pressure in the moment that's the technique that um I use for athletes um yeah okay so is it just athletes that you work with Kate that is my passion okay I I do work with corporates I have worked with families I work with individuals and teams but I think my heart pumps the most when working with athletes so my first degree was in sport and I played sport um myself at a decent level okay what sports did you play I I played a lot of hockey and I absolutely loved it um and I've continued to play sport throughout my life but I think with a bit more more maturity I'm less competitive it's more about the process than the outcome all right which is a nice learning um where were we again what was I saying corporates and TS so um with the corporates I've mainly done the Clifton strengths okay what is that and so that's again they do an assessment and it gives them a top five what their strengths are and then you do coaching with individuals so that they understand how to be the best version of themselves and then you bring the team together to see how they can use each other wisely and so that the team can be a well all the clocks because we can't all be the same and we've all got different strengths and so it's also giving yourself a language of this is what this is how I can be really good but I lack in that area but I can use you for example to stand up and do a presentation because I don't like doing a presentation for example that would be an example so then when I use that with athletes it's also being able to communicate with a coaches this is how you can get the best out of your player but it's also that the player or individual understands this is where I'm going to be in my zone these are the things which will trigger me to be at my worst so not this is how I need to manage it so that is a tool that's fantastic and it's um you can use it for anybody okay so you would you could work with an individual player team player and then would you then work with the team as a whole thereafter as a whole and I would I would also do it with the management and the coaches the physios the everybody because when you're wanting the best out of a player you need to be able to speak their language it's like trying to come in on an FM and an AM level if you don't understand how to get the best out of that player you're wasting time and energy yeah so it's a very effective way for example I'll give you two examples one of the strengths could be competition I'm talking about uh athletes now competition is an externally driven strength so to get the best out of that individual for example if it was hockey I'm going to use that as an example or swimming swiming let's use swimming if I wanted a swimmer to get a better time for example I'd put somebody faster in next to them that's an external drive that'll push them to do better if if it was a sales team somebody with competition would be trying to find their competitor and see what they're doing and that would push their um their sales if for example they had a CH in their top five achiever is an internally driven strength so they are their push yeah they like to have lists and there's a huge sense of Satisfaction by Crossing that off their list so if they were going for example to a hockey practice I would encourage them to have their plan and that by the end of practice they can tick off their list and that's how they would feel a sense of accomplishment so it's just a really lovely way to to understand myself and my teammates that's brilliant um as you're saying that that is actually a test that I would like to do for myself because the competition aspect that you've just mentioned there that's not something that I'm interested in but when you mentioned then sort of the characteristics about achiever it being etal internal um the idea of having checklists and things to work through that is what I can certainly resonate with where can I do that test I'll I'll send you a code and then you do the assessment online and I can do that with be it with Joe yes oh okay I'm actually going to do that and then I'll and then I'll take you through the coaching so you can understand where you've used these strengths before yeah if you're using them currently and how you can take them into the future and so that's why when I talk about one of the other things that I do with athletes is helping them with a plan B okay so that after their professional career what is happening next so that their career doesn't come to an end and then what is my identity if I'm not for example I'm working with an Olympic diver springboard diver yeah she's competing in her third third and final Olympics in August July August and so we already thinking about what's your plan be what is your identity if you're not a springboard diver what's your purpose in the day if I'm not getting up eating sleeping diving yeah and so I use the Clifton strengths these are your strengths that you're using currently how can we translate that into another career how can this be of interest to you in something else that you can keep your purpose alive and you can translate your skills into something else I love that because I mean it's something that I struggle with is I am only I'm now at the age of 39 I'm holding on to that 39 cuz August it disappears um I'm finding now my passion my purpose and it's taken me this long to get there I can imagine people coming out of professional sport or having maybe a life change that their career takes completely different part or maybe their career just disappears for any reason you're left lost you know you've got a skill set um you just don't know where to put it or what direction to go and it's that feeling of being lost and a little bit hopeless yeah yeah yeah right I'm going to do that test um but I mean you mentioned there about athletes but that is entirely transferable into any team environment corporate workspace everybody I've even done it with families okay so that family members understand for example if my husband has got woo in their top five what's woo so woo is somebody who loves to network gets their energy through people so they are energized by spending time with people yeah they will Network they will find out just a little bit about people like the surface and then be able to connect them okay and they'll be able to go from one function to the next function because that's what energizes them then for example if the wife has got relator or a child has got relator whatever the case may be relator is um it's a relationship building theme and that person likes to spend time for example with one person getting to understand them on a deeper level they don't need hordes of people they are drained by like a cocktail party for example okay so if those two are married they could come into conflict when the one wants to go onto the next party and wife wants to go home but if there's an understanding that relator is done and needs to go home then W can go on to their party it's just having the understanding this is me at my best but I can't do that I need time out to recharge my battery so relator needs time out to to to recharge their battery and they don't need hundreds of friends that is so interesting because it's a conversation that we had recently um is that I am that 8020 rule almost 80% of my time if I can have that to myself um and for me I get my most energy um inspiration by being On My Own by walking in nature that is when I'm my most productive creative and content and then during that 20% of the time I can give the best version of myself to everybody else um but it's just finding that balance and it's very difficult I think it's the awareness Kate so if you did your assessment and you might find out that you've got strategic thinking themes in your top five and those people spend a lot of time in their head yeah so for example if people had these themes and and and and I was coaching them and they say well I'm actually not using that then we would find things that you I would encourage them go for a walk or close your your door so that you get time in your head cuz that's where you're the most creative reflective yeah you you would need the time for that and if you get that time you can be far more productive add far more input to team or in your work but if you weren't aware of it you could be bumbling along trying to do other things which would wouldn't help you no because it does create then frustration um within yourself when you're you know that you're not functioning at your most optimal self um and then it's frustrating maybe for other people who is in relationship with you because you're not engaged with them because half the time your brain is trying to scramble to think about the things it should have been thinking about to be satisfied and I suppose it's also if people understand you they can manage their expectations yes yeah and also again the more self-awareness you have the more choice you have yeah it's when you're not self-aware you don't know what you want and you don't know what you don't want yeah so it's having that awareness that you have Choice okay um so you yeah you work with athletes um it's an incredible methodology that can be transferred into the corporate and um yeah the corporate and familial setting but you also work with students yeah yeah so the other the one um aspect of my work which I'm absolutely passionate about and I love is called gazing red to blue yes what is that so that is a mindset technique that helps people perform under pressure and so for the past two years I worked with Sunshine ladies golfers okay and I work over Zoom because they're obviously all traveling around the world yeah so it's an easy technique that I can use with them and it's a process that you take them through understanding when you're in the red head which the red head is when you're feeling overwhelmed under pressure and just understanding that pressure exists it's becoming aware of what your triggers are who your triggers are what situations you feel overwhelmed and um how your body is responding to it how you react how you communicate and then having a look at what you look like when you're in the zone so what you look like when you're in the blue yeah and then developing techniques that when you're under pressure and in the moment you can shift from that space into the blue so the one so I work with currently I've got quite a few school kids okay um up and coming athletes one is a springboard diver she just missed going to the Olympics um in November which I think is a good thing actually because she's in her final year of school so we can focus on that yeah and then I'm working with some swimmers and so they've got to juggle academic pressure exams as well as the selection of all these different swimming things and then swimming is an individual Sport and so is diving so it's the pressure of that diving compared to swimming it's a 30 second or less time that you have to be focused and it's being able to um acknowledge that the pressure exists and get rid of all the distractions yeah and then bring your attention back into the moment and be on task because if you're not you'll mess it up yeah yeah and you've got the chance of injury so it really is about it's not focusing on what others are doing it's not focusing on what social media is saying or what the crowd is doing it's being able to switch that off but how so that's the that's the pre-competition work we do so we do something um where we'll create a scenario okay their own example of what pressure looks like and feels like and often for example with hockey teams I'll give them scenarios so that we make it completely um realistic so for example I'll say what happens if your team is a really good team and you've got a Target on your back and you feel like the Umpire is against you and it keeps blowing for the other team Etc and then we'll work on control what you can control what you can't control what you can let go of again it's awareness it's becoming aware of that type of thing I'll give them examples what happen if you get a card and you sent off or if the team scores while you off and or that you're sitting on the bench for too long so you create a whole lot of wh ifs okay and then by doing the preparation then you've got steps that I'll teach you rituals you'll create your own rituals to help you zoom out Zoom back in and then get into the moment if you listen to Novak doovic the tennis player yeah yeah it was amazing yeah he says 80% of performance happens before you step onto the court really so this is very much part of his routine too it's mental prep what if like just having a plan B for everything you can't plan at all but by having a plan B reducing stress yeah and stress is definitely the number one thing that pulls you into the Red Zone yeah and my best way of describing stress is like a snow globe and if you shake a snow globe it's just fuzz and you can't think clearly no and you can't make clear decisions and some of the techniques that I do other than the gazing red to blue to help the snow is breathing and meditation all right and through breathing and meditation it also helps settle that snow Yeah but you've got to understand that you're in the snow that that's not that's not a helpful state to be in and then techniques to help settle the snow to have clear vision and we know about breathing we know about meditation but it's having that awareness to bring it in during that moment how do you switch the brain from being in that snow globe everything's happening right now you know that you need to perform you know you're under pressure but how do you bring your brain back down to a place of calm yeah that's a great question Kate because half the time when you if it was that easy right if was that easy you would just go okay here I go back into the blue yeah so you're never alone are you no in all your performances you're never alone you've always got a coach or a somebody with you yeah and if you're a team you've got a teammate and that's why it's so helpful the team doing it because your teammate can call you out on it okay and it's not a coly artera to bring you down it's to help you switch so that you can get back on Tas onto the the job that you're supposed to be doing or that you want to be doing so you can get you back into your flow for my diver she's got her coach I've got a young tennis player she's 14 at the moment and she shared the red to blue with her coach and the feedback from her coach was fantastic because it was like um you're in the red what do you need to get into the blue and just that was the switch okay to help her look look at her notes cuz I asked her to put notes together having a plan like Serena Williams has a little note so that she's able to just check back into the get me back on task um with my swimmer uh the one young swimmer that I've got her coach also sent her a text after her performance saying that where you were in the red when you were there these are the things that you could do to bring you back into the blue so it's just having someone who can reflect back to you yeah what because sometimes we don't know it's just all overwhelming we don't know that our body languages change we don't know that our shoulders are tense yeah we don't know that we may be talking too fast or reactive or we go completely silent so the work that I do is bringing the awareness to that so um for example I will get them to fill out what they look feel like react etc etc and they read get the parents to do it get the coaches to do it so there's a whole team feedback yeah so that you've got everybody on board to help you with the switch and then the better you the the more you do it the more you practice it so the red to blue is really about developing a skill mindset is a skill just like dribbling in football or your penalty kick in rugby it's developing the skill and the skill is practiced gosh I am I really am I'm going to take you up on this I'm going to do the psychometric test that you do that's the Clifton strength psychometric test and then I'll take you through the gazing red to blue process because I genuinely want to know what my strengths are and I know when I'm in that snow globe that Red Zone I know because everything is foggy it nothing is making sense I am walking through tral that's it um but then I also know when I'm in the Blue Zone cuz everything is brilliant I'm inspired there is sunshine in my life everything is Flowing there's a great momentum and you can feel it in yourself from a physical mental Creative Energy everything is flowing and everything is fitting together um yeah so you I'm going to look forward to being taken from red to blue that's awesome um a couple of things that we've been talking about recently on are you okay um the main topic we've been talking about is burnout in your profession and with the athletes that you work with how does Burnout manifest there I think if we look at burnout and burnout was quite a big thing after Co right yeah people that was a that was a huge topic one of the things that I am pedantic about with my athletes is I check in on sleep okay okay but leading up to sleep I talk about nutrition like how are you fueling your body um are you using it to thrive or are you using nutrition to survive or are you unaware of how your food is um impacting your system and how it can help or hinder you so that's a big thing I check in on caffeine intake I encourage tea before they go to sleep always Camile tea yeah I am really checking on sleep because sleep is recovery for your both your muscles and your mind oh 100% okay so when one heads burnout the body has had adrenaline surge after adrenaline Surge and it can no longer produce or or yeah so you really are in survival mode so sleep is a key key point that I look at then the another thing that I bring in is um meditation before sleep okay so so because so many people are on their devices and recharging the neurons on another level so that they go to bed wired yeah okay so that's one another huge thing that I bring in to help bring down the Reves engage the parasympathetic nervous system because if people can bring in a holistic approach to their living that that they are going to be more aware of of how to prevent burnout yeah it's when we on that treadmill going at 160 and we can't step off no you you you're heading that way right but but if you can put little things in place and they don't have to be drastic it doesn't mean that you're going to be going off to do a marathon but if there can be encouragement when you when I say you have to exercise but obviously not telling my athletes to exercise but if I'm talking to corporates they have to exercise the exercise might be parking your car further from the Pick and Pay It might be taking the stairs it might be if you're feeling stressed going for a walk with a friend at lunch time yeah it's just adding some move the body move the mind right like you just got to you just got to shift that energy oh 100% um another thing it's it's it's not necessarily related to burnout but it's just the most incredible thing that I've recently learned about my springboard diet who lives in Johannesburg she was going to compete in Japan last year but in Johannesburg and Duran there's no heated pool okay so she had to train in freezing cold water in winter so she had to dive straight into freezing cold water oh yeah and they had this little like seriously like a little rubber plastic tub where her coach would put hot water in so she could get out and warm in there anyway I had done research about cold Water swimming and the benefits for mental health and physical health oh yeah and for stress and for all of that so I started in Winter doing Cold Water Swimming did you yeah at home or no no no no no no no no I went to the Sea because it needed to be aesthetically pleasing for me as well so beautiful surroundings and going with friends so it was like a it was a whole vibe oh yeah no I I mean you're preaching to the choir here because it is is my it's the best yeah and then I would take my GoPro with me and I would film and I'd say Z I'm getting to the water the outside temperatur 7 the pool the sea temperatures 12 at the moment my body's in fight andlight mode cuz as you get in it is yeah and I said and after 2 minutes my body's relaxing and I said I've got there through deep breathing breathing out exal exhaling Etc and then I'd send her the video yeah but we got to a place we could be in the water for 20 minutes and it was just euphoric and so she started doing that she started getting into the pool for 2 minutes before practicing diving and and that way her body was relaxed and she was able to shift her mind to that this isn't just a like I'm having to practice cuz I need to compete in the world Champs in Japan but it that it was actually helping her mind as well that it was helping her relax and she sent me a message and she said Joe this is such a cool thing think nicool will be there being in the operative yeah yeah but um if people have access to coldw swimming like I know that ice bathing is supposed to be really good for you but if you're able to see a mountains or the sea or birds or something else from nature it just takes it to another level of beauty oh absolutely I mean i' I've always loved to swim and I've always said that you feel ill you have um a lot going on in your brain you've got a hangover getting cold water you instantly feel better there is something so calming about it um and then when you come out it's just that feeling of invigoration and proper Euphoria it's like your body and mind is alive on another level no I am I'm all about that and it's actually something I've been looking at recently is putting a ice bath in the house yeah or outside the house yeah yeah yeah but if we had to connect anxiety to burnout yeah I think the key to preventing well one of the keys to preventing burnout is becoming aware of that you are anxious okay okay many people some of the athletes have worked with what does it feel like when you're in the red what does anxiety feel like and they don't have a vocabulary to describe what it is so I'll say if you feel in your chest Can you feel it in your chest is your heart racing faster does your head feel like it's racing and your thoughts are un unclear so number one is becoming aware of are you anxious yeah and if I'm anxious what are the steps I can take to reduce that anxiety okay okay and who and what is creating the anxiety because some stuff we can control and some stuff we can't control yeah but if you become aware of those stresses we can start preventing burnout it's it's about learning to set boundaries in in the Corporate Place yeah it's about learning to say no so I'll give you another one with Clifton strengths one of the strengths is responsibility so somebody with responsibility will do everything they say they're going to do they often want to do everything because they like to control it and they want to do it perfectly they don't want to disappoint other people and they don't want to be disappointed by other people so they'll do it rather right if there things to be done they'll keep sticking up their hand I'll do it I'll do it I'll do it you here burnout is coming okay so they overcommit but they're not going to underd deliver so they're going to just like keep keep doing things so again it's the awareness of learning to say no and learning to delegate yeah because otherwise you are on a fast track to to burn out okay but but again it's self-awareness so okay I'm going to use myself as an example here I know one of my greatest problems or my weakness is being a people pleaser okay so in a in a I think maybe now more of a social situation I feel that I have to say yes to people in order to for them to be happy um and it's how do I get around that when I'm essentially doing things that I don't 100% want to do because I don't want to be responsible for somebody else's disappointment yeah I suppose number one you can go back to your your um Mantra of are you okay yeah like checking in with yourself am I okay and and the answer to that is no because is creating an unst inside of you which is uncomfortable yeah um if I was looking at the gazing red to blue I'd bring out the recognition circles and you would put into what am I in control of yeah I'm in control of the decisions I make and how many people I agree to help Etc yeah and you can slap straight into what I can't control is I can't control how they receive my information how much they enjoy it how much they like me how much they like my opinion that you can't control no that's their expectations that's their interpret so again it's just it's becoming aware and it's also it's accepting you for you yeah and if people like you or not that goes into the can't control Circle that's their choice exactly I cannot control other people's likes dislikes and their expectations of me okay okay this is good therapy and if you care do you know what I mean like do you really care if that person really likes me or not it doesn't does or doesn't matter exactly yeah now because the ones that genuinely do they genuinely do for that matters yeah exactly okay this is a really good therapy session um let's talk a bit now about grief and loss um when we say those words grief and loss we instinctively go to the the grief that comes with losing somebody but it's not it's grief and loss comes in so many different forms you know if I bring it to myself um I lost my Independence I've lost 50% of my vision um I've lost the life expectations that I had before my accident my life is complet completely different now so whilst I have my life and I have an amazing life um it is still dealing with the grief and the loss that has come along with that how do you how would you advise dealing with it yeah I suppose um so grief and loss as you said it it lands on very many different areas if I can if I was dealing with you with your grief and loss I would probably take you through the five stages of griev grieving the Elizabeth Kubler Ross okay where it's denial denial that it happened it's the um the depression oh no hang on it's first the denial then it's the anger yeah the anger that why me why not somebody else why did that guy come through why didn't he see The Pedestrian Crossing all that why all that stuff yeah then the bargaining if only I'd done this if only I'd done that um then there's the depression like the reality of this is now my reality and then there's an acceptance yeah so those are the the five stages of grieving that I would take you through and we would unpack at every stage it doesn't have to go in that order and you can also sometimes go straight back to denial or and that process generally gets easier as time goes by have you found that definitely and I've definitely I don't know if I ever went I genuinely I don't know if I ever went through anger I've certainly gone through absolute sadness um and it can be it's not necessarily thinking about those particular things that I've lost um it can just be life has sort of built up and then my mind can take itself to this feeling of absolute um just self-indulgent um feeling sorry for myself um and it's in those moments that I can have the most cathartic crying ever where it's literally coming from I swear my feet and I am crying making noises that I've never heared before but in those moments I know that it's cathartic um listen to me in those moments it can be one of gratitude because wasn't it a frontal lobe injury um it was a touch a frontal lobe it was predominantly a sepal lobe so it's my vision my vision my balance everything that's taken a knock but why I'm saying that because if it's emotions that were damaged and you're able to feel like that yeah there's like sadness is a real feeling and it's absolutely authentic to what happened yeah so it's appropriate to what happened yeah so I I'm I'm sorry you go through that but it's it's part of your journey but you've got this incredible energy and Imagination and will to help others and to live your best life and the best version of it I mean you walking in The Vineyards and it's photographs you take with the beautiful sky and the nature and everything you see the best that you can see but let's get back to loss in your loss you also lost relationships yeah you lost a life that was yeah definitely so there's there's real loss so there's real grieving that happens in that but at times reach a level of acceptance you do you do and I think you reached those levels of acceptance when you found peace with yourself I I certainly know that with my situation is I feel I've actually got more peace now than I did say before the accident I think before the accident I'm I'm wired to be a people pleaser and I certainly was that way before the accident happened um so I spent most of my time just I was happy but constantly on this hamster wheel of making sure that everybody else was happy because if everybody else was happy with me then that was happiness right whereas now starting after catastrophic brain injury when you've pretty much forgotten all of the twists and turns of life you start from a place of authenticity and so you actually grow a new life but one that is genuine to you and when you've got peace within yourself you can have peace with everybody and everything and I I do live I'd say 80% of my time no actually more than that 90% of my time I do live it in a state of just love and gratitude and brightness yeah I I think and I see that in you and I think with many people when they face adversity they have to get off that hamster wheel yeah and there has to be self-reflection and I think you were given the opportunity if I can call it that I wouldn't wish that on anybody but if I can have the opportunity to reflect on this is my life I've been given a second chance and this is what's important to me and it is authentic yeah you know you know what I mean you that and I mean you do you just look like I describe you to people is Happy Fairy Oh I a happy Fairy Oh I like that I'm going to keep that one you are my happy fairy friend I'd like it thank you I'm going to I'm actually going to channel that now in those moments where I'm feeling a bit Bleak I'm a happy fairy flap those wings in The Vineyards I will definitely do it I love it but if I can use the loss and the grief back to my athletes cuz because it's it's real you know so I'll give two examples one for my golfers and it's for anybody because every season comes to an end and I mean a season as in in the year not the season of the end of your career because I'll get to that next but with an athlete there's very much there's a structure in every day if you're looking at a swimmer it's getting up it's training it's eating it's sleeping it's eating it's sleeping it's training it's like that's their structure if it's a gol it's it's traveling and um hotels and competition and trying to make the cut and and getting to all the different events and mixing with different people and playing in the prams so that they network with other people etc etc so there's a whole structure to the whole year and they know what it is the beginning of the year then comes November and it's over yeah and there's a sense of loss because if they're not with their family or they cuz it's difficult to be married and have kids Etc when you're a professional golfer because you're not there you're traveling all over the world right so now it becomes a time of learning and loss and some people haven't made the the they haven't made enough points and their sponsors may drop them and there's all sorts of things that you don't think about so even when we think that these people are living the best life you there are there are stages that have taken some people through of loss and it's then reframing what the next stage can look like that's the one thing and then it can obviously be loss of a tournament or where they could have made it and they haven't and it's and it's like not taking it on it's all me you actually human first yeah how how do they work through that well it's again managing expectations and working out what went wrong and it's it's it's sport at the end of the day it's not human first and that's the key is like we got to remember that then I've got um a springboard diver who is retiring as I said at the end of the year so it's the loss of your career although we planning for it we planning for the loss we planning for the what does my life look like what what else can I do how can I help others do I want to be coaching do I want to be doing something else what does my life look like reframing it all because I know that there's some athletes that their whole goal is the Olympics and their whole goal is gold or silver well it's generally gold and then they don't get it and then there's depression and let me tell you I worked in addiction for 8 years the high performance personality is chasing the dopamine high and so is the cocaine addict and so is the heroin addict it's a it's a fine line and so no professional athlete can be balanced as such it has to be an imbalanced I try and give them the balance as much as possible but it's that push it's that pushing for more more more and so the addict is also doing that wow that's amazing so I very much bring that into how do you cope with loss how do you cope with when things are not going your way how do you cope in especially footballers there's a lot of downtime there's too much money yes what are you doing when you're traveling what are you doing in the room on your own okay and and they're also too young right yeah so they get all this money too young so they immature Etc so L comes in lots of different areas um and it's just becoming aware awareness is key wow awareness is key Joe this has been amazing I have loved it I am going to dive into the strengths test because I genuinely want want to know where I'm at and yeah let's actually work through gazing red to blue we'll do gazing red to blue definitely I love it well thank you so much for coming in and I hope that we get the opportunity to do this again okay thank you so much we can definitely do a little followup I would love it thank you thank you for your time that was great cheers