[Music] welcome to the center of the universe and the home of the 18-time gray Cup champion Toronto Argonauts this is the x's and Argos podcast with Ben Grant and [Music] JB welcome to the ex's and Argo pregame walkthrough brought to you by Something In The Water Brewing Ben Grant joined as always by JB and we are here to get you set for the first visit of the season to the nation's capital and the first game in fact between the Toronto Argonauts and the Ottawa red blacks of 2024 in regular season play anyway and these two teams have something to play for the East is getting really tight it's a mess in the East it's a mess in the west and uh this game is going to answer a lot of questions for us we got a lot to talk about this week we're going to talk about Kevin matal coming off a great game PFF giving him some props as well and I want to get into a few different topics we're going to try together related to the secondary we saw an injury in the secondary to deshun Amos that could be a really tough one he's been playing so well all season long we'll address that we want to talk about uh as well like where the Argos go from here like how do they if if Amos is going to miss some time how do they compensate for that and that maybe ties into some of the moves that were made last week in the secondary where Mason Pierce and Leonard Johnson were released and that will also tie into our pick six question of the week I'll get to that a little bit later on plus we've got our usual assortment of game preview injury report ocdc one thing predictions put me down for 20 and our CFL picks all that and more coming up on this episode of the xaros podcast let's start with Kevin matal first round draft pick for the Toronto Argonauts they were I think stunned I think we all were when he was still sitting there when the Argos picked at pick five uh I I think we all thought Ottawa was going to take matal at two they end up taking Nick Marner instead and unfortunately for matal he got injured in Camp didn't really get out there until uh you know been a couple weeks of of coming off the bench and I think we finally saw we saw a glimpse of it a couple weeks ago but we we really saw the potential in Kevin matal this week with his three receptions and PFF honored him as well um not not as a player of the week um for PFF player of the week it was it was pretty light when you lose to the Hamilton Tiger Cats you're not going to get a lot of guys on player of the week nominations but um Flo rot I think was the only Argo that made that list but they did note that he had a receiving grade of 88.5 three great catches uh two of them were explosive plays 15 yards or more one of them was this Sensational one-hander JB is it time for Kevin matal to be the starter does he replace Richie sany in the starting lineup um at that inside slot position yeah I would I thought he looked terrific um you know I I think he you know that I think that makes the most sense I think San's been fine uh I mean to be honest I would have to you know really get into like if I want to look at like how effective they are at run blocking like that's something we don't necessarily get to see that might be the only reason that he's he's not quite there um but uh I think he he showed um why he was a first round talent and uh you know I think just keep feeding him the ball I mean he he is the future yeah and I I like that too and I he should be he should translate into a really effective run blocker I liked his run blocking at lval he doesn't quite have that that reach that that massive extension that San has but uh he's not a small guy and what I love about what matal can bring too we saw a glimpse of it remember matal took a carry out of the back field a couple weeks ago and looked really good doing it that's something that you can add into that I don't you know I don't see sany running up the middle the same way mat Tal's got great speed you can use him on Jets from that inside position you can you can bring him in you can sh out like I love the idea of you've got kadim KY let's say shakun left side matal in the slot to the right you could shift kadim carry out they don't see McMahon anywhere on the field now everyone's thinking pass you've got six wide here and then you just creep him atal at the last second and now you got a back in there for a handoff and I think that's just one of the games you can start playing with a player like that but downfield as a receiver we see that like that that catch in Hamilton that one-hander where I again I don't think it was a perfect rope for matal it looked like he held up a little early I think I think I think Chad Kelly was expecting him to continue I was like a seam route and he was continuing downfield he sat maybe a little bit too soon and then suddenly had to turn on the Jets and make this spectacular one-handed catch came down with it but yeah it just shows you what he is capable of so I think this may be the week you know we we are a few days away still from getting depth charts but maybe this is the week that Kevin matal uh is a starter for the Toronto Argonauts let's get into the DBS JB so three different topics here let's start let's start with deshan Amos because I think I think deshun amos's loss this week to injury has the potential like when it first happened and we didn't know exactly what it is we know it's a shoulder now we don't know the severity of it shoulders can really range in in length of time I'm just going to I'm going to assume that he's going to be out for a little bit right now and then we'll have to wait and see if this is an extended absence or or not or if he's able to get back much sooner cuz we just don't know I don't have any information and like I said shoulders are shoulders are weird um and can be really really painful and can be hard to come back from but sometimes they can they can also recover really quickly so he went down deshun Amos I think has played as well as anyone in the Argo secondary I think Royce Meier has had a great season but I think deshun Amos has has been the the star of that secondary and to lose him even if it's just for a few games could be problematic and I want to start looking at how you go about replacing a guy like that in the short term like it's a it's a quick turnaround not just this week it's a few games in a row we have four games in basically 18 days so what's the solution for this what if he has to miss all four of these games where are you going with this and uh what's the immediate answer JB yeah I mean that that's a really good question I mean they they do not not have a lot of depth back there um I I would assume he's probably I mean who knows but usually shoulder you can you can probably guess 3 weeks to four weeks if it's um you know separated or or a sprain um it takes a little while to get back to so I I agree I don't think it's season ending um but who are they you know like who who are they going to plug in there that has you know experience um you know I I'm was surprised that you know I mean I know there's not much out there on the waiver wire but the problem is having somebody in there who knows the system and so it's such a crucial veteran role to have there like it's your your your coordinator back there to you have you just have to have everybody's role down cold um I don't know who who do you think like who do you think they move over I think they probably move somebody out of position well I think they may go with what happened last year when they ended up with injuries at that same spot remember Roberts and Daniel went down and deshan Amos went down with an injury as well and they ended up having that's where with the discovery of Mason Pierce came in we'll get to him in just a moment too that's sort of like the second tier of this discussion they moved to varus mcfaden from corner into halfback and he looked great there and it was a surprise CU we didn't expect that to be a natural transition for him and suddenly he looked like this this whole different style of DB and he was coming in and just walloping everybody and so maybe that's the most natural thing cuz they've got a few guys that that have played Corner before and with the return of Quincy Mo Priester's played Corner uh he's played that spot he's also seen a little bit of time halfback maybe you move mcfaden inside Priester out the corner MO is now your your full-time Sam like that's certainly a possibility so that's one answer um other answers I just don't I I don't no you can try tund Adel there he's played some of that spot um yeah that opens up other possibilities too if you're going you you can make a that halfback a Canadian spot he's yeah he's an interesting that's an interesting name there um I mean the thing is he works so well with the Meier you know like they work so well together um you know you just hate to lose that chemistry uh because there isn't a ton of chemistry in the back in the defensive backfield um but I I I like I like that and I like the mcfaden idea I think you know that's the beauty of having mcfat he can't he can't do everything you want but you know he knows what to do and he knows what's supposed to be done and he is a you know he's a good veteran and I think that is as valuable as anything for at the very least he knows where he's supposed to be and where everybody else is supposed to be which I think is um probably more important necessarily than him being able to flash and make big plays and like injuries have been such a problem for the Argos this season and not only just the number of them they are the most injured team in the CFL the most Man games lost due to injury in the CFL but on top of that the timing of it it seems like the moment they release somebody there's an injury at that same spot uh as soon as they let somebody go from whatever positional group there is boom that positional group gets banged up we saw it on the D line we saw it at cornerback um we now again see it this week and that will transition us into the next part of this and we'll tie this all together in just a moment when we get to our pick six question too Mason Pierce and Leonard Johnson both released last week and um and we haven't even mentioned you know Kenneth George Jr I I should have even mentioned earlier like he they were released they made way for uh some injury returns but also the pickup of Kenneth George Jr cornerback who played halfback for the Hamilton Tiger Cats now I'm much I like him a lot more as a corner than I do a halfback but another name like maybe that's one that worked in Reverse like they pick up this guy he gets a full week of practice in and maybe now you do try to plug him in this week and he plays he could play corner and you move to varus to mcfaden or maybe he goes in at that halfback spot i' be I'd be more tempted to do the other way around but that's an option um so you know comment on maybe right before we get to to Pearson Johnson thoughts on on adding Kenneth George Jr to this mix or is it too soon I feel I mean it feels soon I know he's he you know he he's not a rookie um and and certainly when you watch him on the field he is fast um so like you know he's he's immediately you know he catches the eye uh but I just think that position is one where you just have to know you know if you're if you're going to play different zones you just have to have structure to it you just have to have people who know you know exactly where their part of the zone is and um you know I I would lean towards mcfaden um you know I think also at halfback you want some physicality at that position U that that would be my that would be my hope is that is that they would try MC fat I I like I like George more at the corner to be honest yeah me too I see it's just so much more natural for him and I I think that you know you have fewer moving Parts maybe in that case and I know people might say well you know what's what's the problem why can't he he's been here for over a week prer came in and started right away mcfaden came in and started right away but those are both guys that were familiar with the team they had played not quite in this version of the Argonauts defensive system but well mcfaden had um but they were really familiar with the guys around them and so that made it it was still rushed but it made it possible is it's too bad Pierce dropped off I I don't know I don't know what happened there I don't know like if he had a nagging injury um or or like just didn't didn't gel with with the new uh you know with with the new uh strategies put in but he just didn't you know like he really flashed last year um he you know he got them he got coached as the skatan job for God's sakes I know I know and you know and he he just did not flash this year that same way I don't know I mean I think I think probably Sometimes It's just tough if you if you're not 100% healthy from the get-go you just it's tough to jump on a moving train you know so I think that was that was unfortunate yeah I don't with Mason Pierce because I agree with you like last year he was he was on Pace to be an All-Star he just came in too late because he was in for the Robertson Daniel injury that's when Mason Pierce was sort of discover covered and yeah he was like lightning in those last few games he played he was playing at an All-Star level had he been had he played the whole season at that position unquestionably a CFL Allstar at that at that level that he was contributing at and the the player the play You're referencing if you're new this this year you haven't heard this podcast before there was a game against Saskatchewan last year where Mason Pierce won the Argos the game Lost Saskatchewan in the game and it's our belief that had that Saskatchewan game turned into a win for the Riders they probably make the playoffs actually they definitely make the playoffs they they keep their coaching staff because of that Cory ma is maybe still in Toronto and so that interception by Mason Pierce set in motion this this whole um major series of events maybe it doesn't work out that way but that's what it seemed like to us and I think you actually called it at the time I think you said after that game well there goes there goes Cory thanks a lot yeah yeah I don't know it's too bad like I mean it would not Shock Me if they gave him another run but I don't know I don't know if I don't know if the current you know he he he wasn't performing quite to that level but but but that's but you're looking for a halfback you know he wasn't performing at that level they wanted to give Milton a shot and and Milton's looked really good like that part yeah he has he has looked really good actually now I think they're using him correctly right but he he has looked good in how they're using him but now you need another halfback and Mason appear knows how to play halfback and now he hasn't really been on the field side but I I would actually suggest he's more suited to the field side even though he's only really played the the boundry side in Toronto but I'll give you my thought on why he's maybe struggled I don't know if there's like you said a nagging injury there there is so much like one of the most underrated things that it just doesn't get talked about enough in professional football is how injured these players are all season long this it we know cuz we see injury reports oh yeah this guy's banged up I'm telling you like you do not understand the level to which these guys are are banged up like every day for them when they get out of bed normal people like us sitting at home uh we would not be going to work that day we would not be getting out of bed and they're getting out of bed and they're training and they're they're getting ready to play a football game the the level of injury and the pain tolerance that these guys have is is incredible and so maybe he has been battling something all season long and that's contributed but to my eye it's been the change in system system that's a little different remember Mason Pierce last year the corners that he's working with he's got Jamal Peters and he's got quantz stiggers those are the corners and those are big physical Corners that play the flats and allow Pierce to really range over top of them and sort of be that Ball Hawk use his speed to his advantage and he didn't have to come up and be a big hitter because he had Peters and stiggers doing that for him and now suddenly when you got speed on the outside in guys like Benji Franklin who just have a different style of game more suited to what the coaching staff is doing this season maybe that is is kind of not exposed Pierce but it's asking him to do things that he's not as good at uh when uh compared to last year system yeah I think it just speaks to the idea of how how important scheme fit is for for so many different people you know like look look with the curly gettens and and Chad last year just you know it just just didn't fit just didn't work there's no Rhyme or Reason didn't didn't mean curly gon stopped being a terrific wide receiver just did just you know they just did not they just did not Vibe the same way on the field look at cam judge with the Argos uh looks amazing as a stampeder it comes that's the all time weirdo I'm gonna chalk that one up to some kind of hidden injury that that they didn't talk about but yeah because he looked he did not look good no but he is really good and he's really good against Theo he's good against he's just he's a really good stampeder but just didn't work here he really good except for and he was banged up he was but still like the level the level difference was no just you know yeah I mean it's just an underrated aspect of look there are players who um you know sort of supersede scheme and you know like are are just great players and and and simply override a scheme but most are not you know most players need to be used um you know in a particular way to be successful and some some are lucky to be in a situation and and sometimes that situation changes and um you know and you have to go you have to go find a new team if it's me making the call I bring back Mason Pierce uh because it's a guy I know it's a guy that knows the system and I think if you're worried about the speed of like plug and play and you know they haven't tried out to delicate halfback this season at least on uh on game day they they haven't tried to virus at halfback on game day yet season even though they know it's last year they know he's got it uh I just think instead of moving all these pieces around you bring back Pierce you you put him in amos's spot and everything else can stay the same like that's to me that makes the most sense but we'll see um you know they they obviously have players on this roster they're excited to get a look at too so there's that and maybe this is that opportunity to see these guys play and to see Kenneth George on the field and and see tende delicate there so we'll have to see how that goes uh what about Leonard Johnson he was a guy that you love from day one of training camp um and I think I give you credit for discovering him cuz I didn't even notice him on the first day it wasn't it took me about a week to appreciate what he brought to the table and he looked really good he had a couple ups and downs in the first couple weeks of the season um but just didn't it just didn't quite work out for him the staff didn't seem totally pleased with what he was doing he ended up getting uh getting replaced he was a starter remember for for several weeks I think at least three weeks in a row I think no he was started for five weeks of the Season he kind of lost out to Franklin it seemed to be kind of a race between the two guys um yeah I I look I liked him I thought he I thought he was really Twitchy and was like uh you know really closed on the ball well and was was aggressive and physical with underneath routes um you know but I think I think he did have problems in zone and uh you know I think they felt like they sort of had him in in uh in in uh in Franklin so like they didn't I don't I think that he just kind of got squeezed out a little bit there but I you know I I I still I wouldn't be surprised if he's he's around because he certainly he certainly to me looked like he had elite elite underneath closing speed um but they uh yeah they just I don't know they you know they just maybe he just couldn't make the transition between the man and the zone and they just couldn't take the bus and this gets us into our pick six question still on the same theme this is Peter Cooper is our PI six winner Pi six is a segment brought to you by Something In The Water Brewing uh this is this is one of this is one of the best segments of the show because we're able to give away a six-pack every week from Something In The Water Brewing if you send us your questions when we ask for them and we choose your question to answer on the Pod you win the six-pack from Something In The Water Brewing so Peter Cooper you are this week's winner and his question it's just so theme appropriate he says the secondary seems to be hot and cold this season is it a Personnel issue or a scheme issue and kind of tying in together what we've said I'm going to start this one and then I'll turn it over to you JB but first of all remember this is not the same defensive system that coach mace had in last year there are similarities but it's calling on the DBS to do a lot of different things and they've got a very different style of personnel doing it they've gone away from the big physical corner and instead are going for speed that's you can see that across the secondary you got um from like eduard is a is a speed guy obviously he's he's banged up right now but when he comes back I I wouldn't be surprised to see him step into that starting Corner Spot again cuz he's got that speed Franklin is blazing fast Milton is really fast so that's something they're clearly interested in and that's a tough adjustment when you're going from one system to another in a secondary but you add to that the fact that you've now got pieces moving all over the place so just to give you a sense of what's happened through this first half of the Season they've had five different very different groupings of players out there in the secondary like for the most part you've had Meier and Amos there as the sort of consistent Parts but everything else has moved around and Amos of course we're not expecting to be there this week so yet again there'll be another change it'll just be met he's the only guy going to this week's game who will likely still be in the same spot that he started in to start it all off all all the other five DBS including the Sam linebacker have moved around so the season began with Johnson and Franklin on the corners um and then you had MOJ playing the Sam spot uh and that lasted for a couple games but then Franklin and eduward became the corners and Franklin switched sides went from field to boundary eduard came in on the field side and then Mo got injured a Priester came in at the Sam backer spot and then eduard went down Pierce played Corner briefly and then you had mcfat called back into Service uh and then prer still playing Sam but now MO is back and so they're trying to work both those guys in together um and now of course we're going to see and then Milton of course came in for Pierce as well we had ammani Dennis played he started for two straight games at halfback it's just been a mess it's been all over the place and it's you can't develop any kind of consistency and communication if you're it's musical chairs in your secondary every week it's really tough same thing with receiver groupings if you keep moving guys around again and again and again it's so hard to get any kind of Rhythm or or or chemistry built and so I think it's a combination of system and then injuries dictating Personnel changes and just the case of a couple guys not working out that they have to move on from this is where you jump in and give your two cents I was agreeing with you you were nodding invisibly there yeah I was yeah look sometimes I have two cents sometimes I don't yeah okay well um that's like to me that's the the issue like I don't think the scheme isn't flawed it's not like you've got uh coach Fields coach Ivan out there doing something that doesn't make sense it does it makes sense um they've also I think got the right people to do it it's just they keep getting injured and so you keep having to to change up the board so um I don't think they should abandon it I don't think they should go back to what they were doing last season because that's not they don't have those those those people they don't have those pieces anymore you keep doing what you're doing and you just have to trust that this is a long season and by the end of it you'll have when the guys start getting healthy and coming back it's going to work out if you've got um whether it's eduard coming back Moe back to full health and and feeling 100% whether it's Amos coming back uh whenever that may be the guys are there the they will come together you've seen it and that's the thing if we hadn't seen flashes if we hadn't seen even entire games where the secondary played really well than I would worry but we have seen that it's just it every time it feels like things are going really well in that secondary something else goes wrong someone gets hurt and uh and we're back to square one again so Peter Cooper thank you for your question I hope you enjoy your six-pack of delicious beer from Something In The Water Brewing I think we have talked as much about the defensive secondary as we ever have on an episode of uh the ex's and Aros podcast so we will move on from this JB uh let's get into this week's game game in Ottawa this is a moment JB for it's a moment of vindication that I'm looking for because all season I have maintained that the Ottawa red blacks are not in the second tier of teams in my personal Power Rankings fraud and yet every week the Ottawa red blacks have made us look stupid because they've gone out and won games that we swear up and down they're going to lose I mean they just double check it because I saw it earlier I mean um you know they are six and two against the against the West 62 and one I mean they just they're just feasting on the west yeah the West has been a problem for the Argos that way in that they've been losing to all the non- Argo teams and then the Argos have struggled against in a couple games they've done well at home they swept the entire West at home but it's been tough on the road losing in Calgary losing in Saskatchewan uh and the schedule makers just have not given them any Eastern games yeah so schedule so you believe this is going to be the beginning perhaps of ottawa's comeuppence uh yes yes this will be a payback for all of those games I had to watch on their poorly lit um football field um I you know I just I don't see it like the only thing they're lead at is kick return um you know they are fine and they move the ball but they don't run particularly well they don't throw particularly well you know they take penalties a little more than they should um but somehow that you know their their defense is fine but it's you know it's not Elite is not is not particularly effective at stopping the pass or or particularly effective at uh you know stopping the Run um you know I mean they're they're decent at stopping the Run um they're they're an average team they should be you know they should be a nine and eight team that's who they should be they they should not be pushing I think I think this is where Toronto has to really snap in and become the number two team in the East here and and go on a bit of a run here because uh you know they just they just simply can't let Ottawa um do this so let's take a look at uh let's take a look at the injury report U before we start getting into the specifics of this game and how it will go down because I do think that could maybe play a factor here and aside from the injuries themselves they moved on from Rock Armstead this week which was a little bit of a surprise there's got to be some internal stuff there well he's been getting penalties like every every game like I'm sure they were just sick of it like you can't you just can't get a 15 yard penalty every single game um and and run your mouth on the field and as good as he is cuz he's he's leading their team in rushing he's uh clearly was their their best back um they've gone in in a whole different direction um and and putting morrow in there and and we'll see how that works for them I I think armstead's probably the better player he certainly looked really good on the field yet I think coaches right like coach dice like you know you just can't you can't keep doing that you can't keep taking these 15 yarders at inopportune moments and I think he had enough of it in that that BC game against uh against the Lions in Victoria so yeah they moved on from him so we'll see what that changes up uh other than that um Bryce Carter not practicing Devonte Demond not practicing with the hand injury um the rest of the guys I think are are all going to be able to go so it's a relatively compared to the Argos they're a healthy group The Argos meanwhile today uh deshan Miss we've already mentioned did not practice with the shoulder Brandon Calver Within KNE did not practice and that that injury did not look good at all when he came off the field uh didn't look like man it just it yeah everything B he tried to come off himself and just couldn't make it knowing how tough Calver is that he had to go down and get helped off uh wasn't a a great sign like maybe that's uh maybe this is not a season Ender but I don't expect them to be around this week uh darvar Daniels with a growing injury was limited uh i' like to think he'll be able to go Ryan Hunter was uh off today for for for personal reasons hopefully everything's okay with him and then Jordan Williams which is a really good sign he looks about ready to come back and that's a boost for the dline if he is he was able to go full uh coming back for that ankle injury so maybe reinforcements coming there for the Argos uh with with that said this squad uh let's get into it OC DC we'll start off with the Ottawa red blacks uh I'll give it to you first JB and look at the red blacks defense if you are coordinating the Ottawa red blacks what do you do this week to stop Chad Kelly and the Toronto Argonauts offense well uh I mean I think it it it is um demanding because even even you know even in Toronto's loss um they're still putting up a lot of points I think I think it's very hard to you know I you know I think you're only you're I mean I do think your only hope to beat Toronto from this point forward is that you're going to put 30 up because I think Toronto is going to put up 28 points so I think you can pretty much you know right in with marker 28 um so what do you do with that um you know Ottawa is good at stopping the run but I don't think that that is what makes a tick and I don't think that's that's what's going to make the difference um you know I I I think you try and do what Hamilton did which is is give Kelly I think you know much like teams played Joe flacko for a long period you know you just take away that deep stuff you played uh you play a shell over the top you can play three or four um and you you just force him to take the underneath stuff and see if he'll you know if he'll uh Fardo his way down the field and he's not he doesn't want to be Fardo he wants to be you know uh Mario and Drey uh so like that that is the challenge like he wants to make passes that that maybe there isn't space there he is a risk taker and you want to try and you know I think bait him into throwing outs bait him into throws that that he trusts his arm to make um and and take those and then essentially you know see if he has the patience I I I think that's the book on him and I think that's the way to play him I mean that's the way I would play him um you know the old line has has been okay but I think Toronto has shown that you can get to you can get pressure um and then I would I would mix in you know I would mix in pressure especially in in obvious passing Downs because I think that you know Chad is always looking down the field which is a great trait it's tough to teach that to have your eyes downfield but he he probably needs needs to get rid of that ball quicker to hot routes um in obvious passing situations or in two-minute drills uh because you can really crank up the heat and and come after him on those because he's he's waiting for plays to develop because he wants to throw that dagger so if I'm Ottawa I think that's how you have to play him you know kind of force Chad to to beat himself um and uh and that's how you play it and I thought Chad was pretty good at not like there weren't a lot of deep shots down the sideline and stuff last week like Hilton well I thought so too after the first quarter yeah yeah but it only you know you only have to but then it was 213 yeah right I mean you only needed a couple of times I I agree with you I thought he did take the under stuff and I think he will but it's not in him it's not it's not his natural thing like it well because even his underneath stuff is like 25 yard dig routes right it's what makes him a star he wants to he wants to you know gunsling and it's what makes him great but if you can have a defense which is you know just boring enough to constantly take it away um you know I think that is that is where you run into stuff and that's where Toronto has to um as you mentioned on your side is like stick with that running game and and you know with Chad getting his running feet under him again too like when they run those three man rushes um you know take those three yards and we'll switch to the the other side of the ball looking at the Ottawa red blacks offense I put the Run game away largely I just I know Hamilton was actually able to run against Toronto that's an anomaly they Toronto's been allowing about 70 yards rushing per game they let up 140 against the ti cats I still have no idea how it what it just didn't look like it just didn't look like the regular Toronto defense and I I don't see that as being a consistent thing they were a little bit embarrassed this week by that performance the whole team was you shouldn't lose to the Hamilton Tiger Cats twice and in the same season with a team that's only won three games and so I do expect them to step up I don't think Ottawa is going to be able to run the football and I'm not going to waste a lot of downs trying and if I do I'm going to see if I can get that speed to the outside more than go up the gut I think most part shots downfield that aren't go routes I think Toronto's done a pretty good job of taking away the straight goes it's the other stuff that they've struggled with deep digs double overs with underneath action to like to to freeze backers or to maybe even draw in safeties and halfbacks um double moves like wheels from the slot slot Fades sluggos yeah Zone beers yeah like all of that stuff like test the Argos we talked about this earlier with the moving pieces that's what went wrong last week you look at those those two big touchdowns on one it looked like Meier kind of got drawn in by a a a row coming across in front of him suddenly there's a post from the other side going over top and then the other one looked like a miscommunication on kind of like an old school wheel like it was it was like an out and up and uh from the slot to um to Tim White and it really was only the only one that was sort of like a straightaway go was that last play where the Aros are in zero and they're looking for for run and uh and yeah that was a great throw they didn't cover the out or the out no well because again they they were banking on like we got to stop the run on this down or something short they're playing the sticks and they went for a 45 yard pass instead but yeah that's that's something that so I think for as Ottawa you got to attack with all those Zone beaters really Force the Aros to communicate especially knowing that there's probably going to be some more new pieces in there again this week turn it into an air show like every every down get R Brown to fire that ball downfield and see what you can come away with cuz you you know like you said you're going to have to score you got to score at least 28 and I just don't think you're going to do it with short stuff um the the trouble ottawa's got is that they've got so many moving pieces at receiver we'll see how that goes um they've had some injury issues um at that receiving spot that's that's going to be uh interesting to see what uh what what comes of that uh let's switch over to the good guys JB I'll give you the start Toronto's defense how do you shut down this uh maybe new look red blacks offense with the the moving pieces that they've got yeah I don't I mean I don't know what that's going to look like you know like I know he's more of the vet but I mean that that's tough to come off the street and and and play um can I can I just jump in on that for let me just jump in on that for a second because we've talked before about how running backs one of the few positions where you can kind of come in and go cuz it's a lot of the stuff's very similar but where I think it is tough it's the it's the mesh timing it's the footwork with the quarterback like that to get a really clean handoff takes repetition it takes time and so the plays aren't going to be the issue that the language isn't going to be the issue for for him into this offense it's just going to be those little things where that lost step in your handoff is enough for the Aro defense to be all over you so so I do think like coming off the street it's not the it's not that he doesn't know these run plays he's run all of ottawa's run plays before but it's the timing it's the the Precision the footwork with uh with brown yeah no and look he's a vet and he will he will be good I mean that that's a bolt look I I can tell like in Ottawa they're not full and run I think they I think they're very well coached team I think that and that's full respect that they had a guy who was a goof and you know they're having a season that you know despite our our our accusations they're having a great season they're number two in the East I mean that that is not an easy decision to throw that guy off your boat um at number two because a you know all you need to do is see him in double blue for the rest of the season you know I'm not saying that's going to happen but you know that that is a potential somebody's going to pick him up he's you know he's incred L talented I mean unless the word is really poisonous I I can't imagine somebody doesn't give him a shot you know Evington but uh yeah I think if you're if you're Toronto I think it's time for I thought the pass rush played pretty well against Hamilton um I'd like to see that continue I think Ottawa is is not great at stopping the sack um you know really like Toronto unfortunately uh so I I want to see pass rush here I want to see them you know I want to see them really get after Ottawa let's you know let's not Ottawa does is not great at anything and I don't think you need to scheme up Ottawa I think I think this is a team that you should be able to get after I think you should be able to you know mix in you know do your standard mix you got some underneath man you got some underneath Zone you got you know sometimes you give him a deep look and OB his past situations um I don't think you need to load the box to stop the running back but I think we want to get more quarterback sack pressure you know I think that that's an aspect that it's good but it's not always there it kind of comes and goes and then like you can go a whole quarter and a half without it um you know I'd like to see a little more consistent but I I I think Toronto is the better team I think that they don't you don't need to really scheme up here I think you can do your standard mix of man in zone and your standard mix of you know Run Stop on first down and and and pass defense on second down and not that you're playing vanilla but I you know I think sometimes you play teams that you don't have to get into the lab and I don't think out of a team you have to get in the lab to You know despite the record you know I think you you just have to tackle well and I think you have to um you know you just have to make sure that you're you're getting after that quarterback and not giving them time to to get on the field and not giving away free yards on you know on quarterback rushes um you know they play a not exciting brand of football um I I really would love to see Toronto kind of put a stamp on this like like a defensive stamp and kind of really really Flex it I know it's hard without Winton but I I would like to see like a a def you know a game where the defense really kind of um showed that they're a championship defense switching to the other side of the ball for Toronto I think you want to attack short middle and deep outside do that's the two areas I would go after this week because I think Chad Kelly now with a few games under his belt you're focusing your film on those games you're not looking at Chad Kelly from last year if you're Ottawa you've got these two games to really study and break down now and when I go back and look at those two games and sort of see like where where there seem to be vulnerabilities where Toronto seem to be able to successfully attack the voids that got left out especially this past week there is going to be some aggression from the Ottawa linebackers and trying to get outside quickly think back to those quick passes that Chad is making to devarus to the slot where a linebacker almost got there just just missed getting to the football and devaris caught it and was able to turn it into a first down I think you're going to see especially from you know like guys like adarus picket for example um are going to be flying outside to try and pick these off to try and disrupt and I think that's going to leave some space in the middle of the field I think you're going to get those guys to widen out when they know it's not a run play and they're looking past and that's where I don't mind getting the running back involved run kadim carry on these these Texas routes it's like a diamond shape where he he cuts on like a 45 degree to the outside and then Cuts 45 degree back in ends up right in the middle of the field those routes I think are going to be there uh I think you're going to find uh you know middle Hooks and stuff to the running backs as well even running back screens middle screens which we still haven't really seen Toronto run so I think you can attack the middle of the field that way and I want to see 5050 balls because Coy and Chad Kelly have that working and they didn't really go to it last week I was waiting for it against Jamal Peters it didn't happen I think there's some vulnerability there that the Argos can take advantage of this week I wouldn't even mind getting devaris outside too I know he's on the field but you can move guys around get him on the outside take a shot to him cuz he bodies so well on those plays and when wins a lot of those 50/50s as well so I think that has to be part of the strategy and then the one last thing I want to see is a double move from angerer we've talked a lot in this podcast about how we love those comeback routes he runs for like automatic first downs for like 12 15 yard gains way on the outside I think the other team has seen that enough now that on a situation like a second and 10 where they're looking sticks if you run under under 12 yards turn around and then go again you're going to leave the DB in the dust so I think this is one of those occasions to take advantage of that that's my plan for uh Toronto's offensive attack what's your one thing JB the one thing that the Argos have to do this week to guarantee a win well you know look I thought the facts were be enough to get it done against Hamilton you know that's such a disappointing game it should have been um had we not had they not uh dug themselves a an immense hole in it turned out to be turnovers like that was sort of that the correct answer I think for one thing they needed a turnover with one turnover Toronto wins that game but they just never came no they they have not been a great turnover team um but I think you know the sacks have been coming um yeah I mean I'd like to see you know I would I would love to see the the other team kept under uh 250 yards you know I'd like the defense to go out there and be like okay this enough enough we're going to go out there and we're going to show you know much like Winnipeg does not every game but but show that gear like we can come out here and we can we can close down this passing game and uh let's keep the passing yards under 250 my one thing's pretty similar it's just more specific uh rushing yards I want under 75 rushing yards and that's been about their season average but that's been their average they' their average this year they lead the league in that category theyve just got to do that again get their usual game they let up 140 last week let's get back to 75 that was the number they've been able to do there's a team they be able to do it against I mean I know they're not 100% healthy so like I can't I can't really pound the table about it but uh nevertheless here I am and prediction for this week I've got Toronto 28 Ottawa 20 uh I I just I don't and again I I'm so tired of Ottawa PR now I got a right last week finally BC beat Ottawa and I actually had it but my my record picking Ottawa this this year is is not good um so 2820 a Toronto win how do you see it falling JB well look it's an interesting it's interesting uh because um Ottawa is undefeated at home Toronto is not very good on the road that's something you know that's something that they need to address I I don't think it's become a thing yet but because a lot of those games are very very close you know like easily theat could have been this could have been a win um so I I don't think it's the thing but to make sure it does not become a thing or a conversation piece let's go into Ottawa let's go into the uh the UN the underlit Dome of death and uh you know take back that uh take back the crown from The Pretender so I like Toronto 35 Ottawa 21 yeah and you're right about like you're right about the road thing like your the saskatch game could probably have been a win uh they did win on the road in Montreal both Hamilton losses were by three points both games they really should have won they should have won in Calgary they were up uh big in Calgary and let that one slip away like they could easily be undefeated on the road this season and yet have lost all but once so no I think I think go Ottawa put put you know bring an end to any on the road conversation bring an end to to ottawa's uh underlit dreams it's time for put me down for 20 and we're a little hitting missed last week uh overall we were both up slightly because of the juice and I think I found something and you know what they say about uh gamblers with a system you you solved gambling I've solved gambling so I'm excited let me get my pencil out here yeah yeah so before we give you our picks I want to tell you not to take any of our picks seriously certainly uh do not risk your hard-earned money on anything we think cuz we clearly don't know what we're doing but uh it's for fun we're betting golden fleeces we both started with 200 on the year I think my I got up to like 250 but it's been I've been on a slide for a while now you've been hovering around the 200 Mark all season long so right now I'm at 207. 5 you're at 187.5 but I had a win last week that was a revelation for me I set my own point spread for the BC Lions over Ottawa I set it all the way up to 8.5 and that paid at plus 230 and I feel like that's now my solution going forward so with that in mind my two Wagers I have set new point spreads so for the Argos I've got the Argos minus 62 for plus 250 golden fleeces I'm I'm wagering 10 golden fleeces on that uh and then I've got Saskatchewan minus 2 and a half so they're dogs right now I'm picking them as two and a half Point favorites and that play pays at plus 136 so those are my two plays for for this week uh JB where are you going with your hard earned golden fleeces well I'm I know I feel good because I think know last year I had to I had to go to Zeus for a reup uh before the end of the season you did it was like mid it was about right now yeah so currently I feel like things are things are okay um I I got some uh I've got some grinder picks here I think that uh I'm going to start with the the Argos plus 102 first half lead um not the sexiest uh wager I've ever made but sometimes you got to pay the rent so I I like like the Argos to get out to a first half lead um I like them to win and and generally speaking they win when they you know when they have a lead the you know the the statistics are actually really Stark you would think it's obvious but I mean you know basically like when they have a lead at the end of each quarter their winning percentage over the last 10 years is about 600 and when they don't have a lead it drops down to about 225 um so yeah I like them to win so I got a first half lead and I'm going to jump into the Montreal game I think Fardo wants to kind of put his name on that Eastern MVP that you know that currently might be residing in Hamilton um so I like Fardo to throw over one and a half touchdowns uh in in you know what some are calling a a gray cup warm-up a gr cup potential uh I'm really excited to watch that game actually much more than uh another Evon Calgary game which I just could not be less excited to uh to observe so I've got that at plus 118 on Fardo over one and a half touchdowns yeah 118 there thank you uh all right let's get to our picks we were both two and two last week uh so on the season I'm 3219 And1 you are 2724 and one uh I've got honors this week so BC at Montreal I think I'm going to take Montreal here I love how BC looked last week and I think this game's going to going to be really close if I were betting I wouldn't go anywhere near this game but I think Montreal coming off a buy at home I think that's the difference BC we know what that long road trip is like going the other way and how hard it is for the Argos traveling that far west uh same thing for the the Lions coming this way and so lions in Montreal Montreal off a bu Montreal is a really good team uh and so I think they're going to win but I think it's going to be really tight it's going to be a great football game who are you taking ah uh I am going to take um oh God I you know what I'm G to take your BC Lions I'm G I'm going to take BC there um I know Montreal at home is formidable uh I think that coming off the buy as well um they're going to be well rested Fardo I still like Fardo throw those touchdowns uh I think BC's found a little something here so I think I might they might go on a little run here all right and our second game Toronto at Ottawa I've taken Toronto are you going to hedge or you still sticking with Toronto I know I like Toronto over Ottawa and Saskatchewan at Winnipeg the banjo Bowl I'm going to take Saskatchewan in this one as well like I did in this the spread I I'm I'm not sure about this game I feel really uneasy about it but I kind of felt going into the Labor Day classic that they would split I thought it would be the other way around I thought they would each win at home I still think it's tough to beat the same team in back toback weeks so I'm taking the the Riders but man they're banged up on that old line so um I'm not not super confident about that one uh where are you going um I I you know what I've been riding Winnipeg like I said I felt like they were the giant awakened I'm going to keep riding Winnipeg until until I get new information so I like Winnipeg there I do like f cetch one then Calgary Edmonton to wrap up the weekend play um I am going with the Elks the Elks are playing good football right now Calgary is got nothing going I know Jake mayor rebounds really nicely we're not even sure at this point of the week that he's going to get the start though so um they they kind of left that a little up in the air it sounded like today uh Calgary to Edmonton I've got Edmonton who do you have JB I have um I have Calgary uh I'm not I'm not buying the Emon Express and uh although that's a good name um and uh I no I just I I don't like either of these teams and I don't I don't want to bet on either but I will take Calgary because I think I think those two teams are built for splits Saturday afternoon 1 o'clock Eastern Time start Toronto at the Ottawa red blacks that will just about do it for us on this episode of the ex's and Aro podcast for JB this has Ben Grant saying so long and may all your pre- snap reads be good ones I'll see [Music] you go Toronto Aros go go go pull together fight the together till the greats to go go go go go [Music]