[Music] peace family it's your brother Mark Lamont Hill welcome to night school a very special edition of night school of course we are here for a very very particular reason and y'all know what it is it is a high stakes debate that's happening tonight live at the national Constitution Center in the world's greatest City Philadelphia just steps away from the US Constitution was signed in 1787 it is a debate between vice president president Kamala Harris and former president Donald Trump it's the first time that these two will be meeting on the debate stage of course we had the Trump Biden Fiasco that changed the entire complexion of the election a few months ago but now these two are meeting up and we're only eight weeks from election day which means that is probably the only time we're going to see these two debates these two debate because there is no other debate scheduled the lect turn is eight excuse me six feet apart that means they going to be close but there's not going to be a lot of arguing because they are going to be muted when the other person is speaking and if you remember there was a lot of controversy about that you know comma Harris is very adamant about that and I think the reason made sense is that Donald Trump is an interruptor and he's a bully and so we didn't want to see that happen so it'll be interesting to see each candidate have an opportunity to be sort of to deliver their words uninterrupted now debates are as good as their moderators and tonight we got two Pros on this on the job we have ABC's David mu and Lindsey Davis now the question is not will they do a good job at asking questions we know they're professional question askers they're professional question readers they're excellent talkers and their seasoned journalists but the question is are they going to fact check the candidates everyone's saying will fact check Donald Trump and they should but they should also fact check kamla Harris everybody should be fact checked but sometimes lately there's been more politeness uh then there has been factchecking but if that happens don't worry because factcheck.org factcheck.org is going to be doing live factchecking of everybody they're doing they're doing it on X and they're doing it on thread so what you can do is while you watch us because you don't want to go nowhere else while you watch us you can also so uh check out the fact checking and of course I'll be fact checking you know with them with y'all too because you know we we got the comments section I'll be watching it with y'all in the comments uh laughing at times yelling at times frustrated at times because there's a lot at stake here and politicians act like politicians and we got to make sure that we hold them accountable um it's an important race maybe the most important race we've seen in a long time maybe the most high stakes debate we've seen in a long long time KLA Harris has been riding a wave a wave that is important uh to consider given the fact that she entered the race late but she hasn't had to take a political uh challenge yet in terms of controversy a scandal or a bad debate performance let's see what happens tonight when she goes head-to-head with Donald Trump my best guess is she handles herself quite well she did quite well against Joe Biden in the Democratic primary four years ago uh Donald Trump is a formidable debat opponent not because of skill or intellect or knowledge or experience or Integrity but because he's a showman and these are in fact shows now it's no secret that one of the big States is Pennsylvania it's a high stakes area and the debate is taking place in Philadelphia the Harris campaign has recently flooded the state with political ads many of which Hammer Trump on Project 2025 and Donald Trump knows that it's high stakes too because he is going to all the places in between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh what we call pennil Tucky that that part of Pennsylvania that leans red that often votes Republican so you see him in Harrisburg you see him in wilberry which is the neighboring town to Scranton you see him uh in Johnstown and the polls have them neck and neck so we'll keep watching we'll see what happens we're just a few seconds away from the debate starting as soon as the debate uh starts you will not have to see my ugly mug and you will not have to hear my voice instead uh you'll have the two presidential candidates up for grabs in the meantime I want to send a quick shout out to everybody here from The Mark lill official Community also if you're watching on Twitter come over to YouTube if you want to you can hit that like button you can hit that subscribe button you can follow us live and I want to add that after the debate is over we're not done that's where the analysis starts and and I'm talking about not just me but we also will have uh Dr David Johns here later is the CEO and executive director of the national black Justice Coalition someone who worked uh with President Obama during his times we also have uh Deontay Johnson he is the founder and president of the black conservative Federation he also is a Donald Trump surrogate and I mean he identifies as such he admits that he puts that on his business card and we also have Tiffany Dena Lofton who is a National Education and labor organizer she's also the host of how we get free podcast she was appointed uh by President Obama to serve on the White House initiative on educational Excellence for African-Americans and higher education so she'll have a very specific uh point of view but she's also been deeply critical uh of the democratic party and their policy so we'll have a kind of democrat perspective Republican perspective and then welcome to you both it's wonderful to have you it's an honor to have you both here tonight good evening we are looking forward to a spirited and thoughtful debate so let's get started I want to begin tonight with the issue that voters repeatedly say is their number one issue and that is the economy and the cost of living in this country vice president Harris you and president Trump were elected four years ago and your opponent on the stage here tonight often asks his supporters are you better off than you were four years ago when it comes to the economy do you believe Americans are better off than they were four years ago so I was raised as a middle class kid and I am actually the only person on this stage who has a plan that is about lifting up the middle class and working people of America I believe in the Ambitions the aspirations the dreams of the American people and that is why I imagine and have actually a plan to build what I call an opportunity economy because here's the thing we know that we have a a shortage of of homes and housing and the cost of housing is too expensive for far too many people we know that young families need support to raise their children and I intend on extending a tax cut for those families of $6,000 which is the largest child tax credit that we have given in a long time so that those young families can afford to buy a crib buy a car seat buy clothes for their children my passion one of them is small businesses I was actually my mother raised my sister and me but there was a woman who helped raise us we call her our second mother she was a small business owner I love our small businesses my plan is to give a $50,000 tax deduction to start up small businesses knowing they are part of the backbone of America's economy my opponent on the other hand his plan is to do what he has done before which is to provide a tax cut for billionaires and big corporations which will result in5 trillion dollar to America's deficit my opponent has a plan that I call the Trump's sales tax which would be a 20% tax on everyday Goods that you rely on to get through the month economists have said that that Trump sales tax would actually result for middle class families in about $4,000 more a year because of his policies and his ideas about what should be the backs of middle class people paying for tax cuts for billionaires president Trump I'll give you two minutes first of all I have no sales tax that's an incorrect statement she knows that we're doing tariffs on other countries other countries are going to finally after 75 years pay us back for all that we've done for the world and the Tariff will be substantial in some cases I took in billions and billions of dollars as you know from China in fact they never took the Tariff off because it was so much money they can't it would totally destroy everything that they've set out to do they're taking in billions of dollars from China and other places they've left the tariffs on when I had it I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation uh look we've had a terrible economy because inflation has which which is really known as a country Buster it breaks up countries we have inflation like very few people have ever seen before probably the worst in our nation's history we were at 21% but that's being generous because many things are 50 60 70 and 80% higher than they were just a few years ago this has been a disaster for people for the middle class but for every class on top of that we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental institutions and insan asylums and they're coming in and they're taking jobs that are occupied right now by African-Americans and Hispanics and also unions unions are going to be affected very soon and you see what's happening you see what's happening with towns throughout the United States you look at Springfield Ohio you look at Aurora in Colorado they are taking over the towns they're taking over buildings they're going in violently these are the people that she and Biden led into our country and they destroying our country they're dangerous they're at the highest level of criminality and we have to get them out we have to get them out fast I created one of the greatest economies in the history of our country I'll do it again and even better we are going to get to immigration and border security during this debate but uh I would like to let vice president Harris respond on the economy here well I would love to let's talk about what Donald Trump left us Donald Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression Donald Trump left us the worst Public Health epidemic in a century Donald Trump left us the worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War and what we have done is clean up Donald Trump's mess what we have done and what I intend to do is build on what we know are the aspirations and the hopes of the American people but I'm going to tell youall in this debate tonight you're going to hear from the same old tired Playbook a bunch of Lies Grievances and name calling what you're going to hear tonight is a detailed and dangerous Plan called project 2025 that the former president intends on implementing if he were elected again I believe very strongly that the American people want a president who understands the importance of bringing us together know we have so much more in common than what separates us and I pledge to you to be a president for all Americans president Trump I'll give you a minute here to respond number one I have nothing to do as you know and as she knows better than anyone I have nothing to do with project 2025 H that's out there I haven't read it I don't want to read it purposely I'm not going to read it this was a group of people that got together they came up with some ideas I guess some good some bad but it makes no difference I have nothing to do everybody knows I'm an open book everybody knows what I'm going to do cut taxes very substantially and create a great economy like I did before we had the Great greatest economy we got hit with a pandemic and the pandemic was not since 1917 where 100 million people died has there been anything like it we did a phenomenal job with the pandemic we handed them over a country where the economy and where the stock market was higher than it was before the pandemic came in nobody's ever seen anything like it we made ventilators for the entire world we got gowns we got masks we did things that nobody thought possible and people give me credit for rebuilding the military they give me credit for a lot of things but not enough credit for the great job we did with the pandemic but the only jobs they got were bounceback jobs these were jobs bounce back and it bounced back and it went to their benefit but I was the one that created them they know it and so does everybody else vice president Harris I'll let you respond so Donald Trump has no plan for you and when you look at his economic plan it's all about tax breaks for the richest people I am offering what I describe as an opportunity economy and the best economists in our country if not the world have reviewed our relative plans for the future of America what Goldman Sachs has said is that Donald Trump's plan would make the economy worse mine would strengthen the economy what the Wharton School has said is Donald Trump's plan would actually explode the deficit 16 Nobel laurates have described his economic plan as something that would would increase inflation and by the middle of next year would invite a recession you just have to look at where we are and where we stand on the issues and I'd invite you to know that Donald Trump actually has no plan for you because he is more interested in defending himself than he is in looking out for you it's just a sound they gave her that to say look I went to the Wharton School of finance and many of those professors the top professors think my plan is a brilliant plan it's a great plan it's plan that's going to bring up our our worth our value as a country it's going to make people want to be able to go and work and uh create jobs and create a lot of good solid money for our for our country and just to finish off uh she doesn't have a plan she copied Biden's plan and it's like four sentences like Run Spot Run four sentences that are just oh we'll try and lower taxes she doesn't have a plan take a look at her plan she doesn't have a plan Mr President I do want to drill down on something you both brought up uh the vice president brought up your tariffs you responded and let's drill down on this because your plan is what she calls is essentially a national sales tax your proposal calls for tariffs as you pointed out here on Foreign imports across the board you recently said that you might double your plan imposing tariffs up to 20% on Goods coming into this country as you know many economists say that with tariffs at that level costs are then passed on to the consumer vice president Harris has argued it'll mean higher prices on gas food clothing medication arguing it cost the typical family nearly $4,000 a year do you believe Americans can afford higher prices because of tariffs they're not going to have higher prices what's going to have and who's going to have higher prices is China and all of the countries that have been ripping us off for years I charged I was the only president ever China was paying us hundreds of billions of dollars and so were other countries and you know if she doesn't like them they should have gone out and they should have immediately cut the tariffs but those tariffs are there three and a half years now under their Administration we are going to take in billions of dollars hundreds of billions of dollars I had no inflation virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worse period of time people can't go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else these the people of our country are absolutely dying with what they've done they've destroyed the econ eom and all you have to do is look at a poll the polls say 80 and 85 and even 90% that the Trump economy was great that their economy was terrible vice president Harris I do want to ask for your response and you heard what the president said there because the Biden Administration did keep a number of the Trump tariffs in place so how do you respond well let's be clear that the Trump Administration resulted in a trade deficit one of the highest we've ever seen in the history of America he invited trade Wars you want to talk about his deal with China what he ended up doing is under Donald Trump's presidency he ended up selling American chips to China to help them improve and modernize their military basically sold us out when a policy about China should be in making sure the United States of America wins the competition for the 21st century which means focusing on the details of what that requires focusing on relationships with our allies focusing on investing in american-based technology so that we win the race on AI on Quantum Computing focusing on what we need to do to support America's Workforce so that we don't end up having the on the short end of the stick in terms of workers rights but what Donald Trump did let's talk about this with covid is he actually thanked president shei for what he did during Co look at his tweet thank you president XI exclam point when we know that she was responsible for lacking and not giving us transparency about the origins of covid President Trump I'll let you respond first of all they bought their chips from Taiwan we hardly make chips anymore because of philosophies like they have and policies like they have I don't say her because she has no policy everything that she believed three years ago and four years ago is out the window she's going to My Philosophy now in fact I was going to send her a magah hat she's gone to My Philosophy but if she ever got elected she'd change it and it will be the end of our country she's a Marxist everybody knows she's a Marxist her father's a Marxist professor in economics and he taught her well but when you look at what she's done to our country and when you look at these millions and millions of people that are pouring into our country monthly where it's I believe 21 million people not the 15 that people say and I think it's a lot higher than the 21 that's bigger than New York State pouring in and just look at what they're doing to our country they're criminals many of these people coming in are criminals and that's bad for our economy too you know you mentioned before we'll talk about immigration later well bad immigration is the worst thing that can happen to our economy they have and she has destroyed our country with policy that's insane almost policy that you'd say they have to hate our country president Trump thank you Lindsay I want to turn to the issue of abortion president Trump you've often touted that you were able to kill roie Wade last year you said that you were proud to be the most pro-life president in American history then last month you said that your Administration would be great for women and their Reproductive Rights in your home state of Florida you surprised many uh with regard to your six-week abortion ban because you initially had said that it was too short and you said quote I'm going to be voting that we need more than six weeks but then the very next day you reverse course and said you would vote to support the six-week ban vice president Harris says that women shouldn't trust you on the issue of of abortion because you've changed your position so many times therefore why should they trust you well the reason I'm doing that vote is because the plan is as you know the vote is they have abortion in the ninth month they even have and you can look at the governor of West Virginia the previous governor of West Virginia not the current governor is doing an excellent job but the governor before he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby in other words we'll execute the baby and that's why I did that because that predominates because they're radical the Democrats are radical in that and her vice presidential pick which I think is a horrible pick by the way for our country because he is really out of it but her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine he also says execution after birth it's execution no longer abortion because the baby is born is okay and that's not okay with me hence the vote but what I did is something for 52 years they've been trying to get Ro v Wade into the states and through the uh genius and and heart and strength of six Supreme Court Justices we were able to do that now I believe in the exceptions for rape incest and life of the mother I believe strongly in it Ronald Reagan did also 85% % of Republicans do exceptions very important but we were able to get it and now states are voting on it and for the first time you're going to see look this is an issue that's torn our country apart for 52 years every legal scholar every Democrat every Republican liberal conservative they all wanted this issue to be brought back to the states where the people could vote and that's what happened happened now Ohio the vote was somewhat liberal Kansas the vote was somewhat liberal much more liberal than people would have thought but each individual state is voting it's the vote of the people now it's not tied up in the federal government I did a great service in doing it it took courage to do it and the Supreme Court had great courage in doing it and I give tremendous credit to those six justices there is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born Madam vice president I want to get your response to president Trump well as I said you're going to hear a bunch of lies and that's not actually a surprising fact let's understand how we got here Donald Trump hand selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of roie Wade and they did exactly as he intended and now in over 20 states there are Trump abortion bans which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide Health Care in one state it provides prison for life Trump abortion bans that make no exception even for rape and incest which understand what that means a survivor of a crime of violation to their body does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next that is immoral and one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body I have talked with women around our country you want to talk about this is what people wanted pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot she didn't want that her husband didn't want that a 12 or 13-year-old Survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term they don't want that and I pledge to you when Congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of roie Wade as president of the United States I will proudly sign it into law but understand if Donald Trump were to be reelected he will sign a National Abortion ban understand in his project 2025 there would be a National Abortion a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies your Mis carriages I think the American people believe that certain freedoms in particular the freedom to make decisions about one's own body should not be made by the government thank you vice president Harris well there she goes again it's a lie I'm not signing a ban and there's no reason to sign a ban because we've gotten what everybody wanted Democrats Republicans and everybody else and every legal scholar wanted it to be brought back into the states and the states are voting and it may take a little time but for 52 years this issue has torn our country apart and they've wanted it back in the States and I did something that nobody thought was possible the states are now voting what she says is an absolute lie and as far as the abortion B no I'm not in favor of abortion B but it doesn't matter because this issue has now been taken over by the states would you veto a National Abortion ban if it well I won't have to because again two things number one she said she'll go back to Congress she'll never get the vote this's impossible for her to get the vote especially now with the 5050 and essentially 5050 in both Senate and the house she's not gonna get the vote she can't get the vote she won't even come close to it so it's just talk you know what it reminds me of when they said they're going to get student loans terminated and it ended up being a total catastrophe the student loans and then her I I think probably her boss if you call him a boss he spends all his time on the beach but look her boss went out and said we'll do it again we'll do it a different way and he went out got rejected Again by the Supreme Court so all these students got taunted with this whole thing about this whole idea and how unfair that would have been part of the reason they lost to the millions and millions of people that had to pay off their student loans they didn't get it for free but they were saying it's the same way that they talked about that that they talk about abortion but if I could just get a yes or no because you're running J JD Vance has said that you would veto if you did come to your desk well I didn't discuss it with JD in all fairness JD and I I don't mind if he has a certain view but I think he was speaking for me but I really didn't look we don't have to discuss it because she'd never be able to get it just like she couldn't get student loans they couldn't get student loans they didn't even come close to getting student loans they taunted young people and a lot of other people that had loans they can never get this approved so it doesn't matter what she says Isabel going to Congress wonderful let's go to Congress do it but the fact is that for years they wanted to get it out of Congress and out of the federal government and we did something that everybody said couldn't be done and now you have a vote of the people on abortion vice president Harris want to give you your time to respond but I do want to ask would you support any restrictions on a woman's right to an abortion I absolutely support reinstating the protections of Ro Wade and as you rightly mentioned nowhere in America is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and and and asking for an abortion that is not happening it's insulting to the women of America and understand what has been happening under Donald Trump's abortion bans couples who pray and and and and dream of having a family are being denied IVF treatments what is happening in our country working people working women who are working one or two jobs who can barely afford child care as it is have to travel to another state to get on a plane sitting next to strangers to go and get the health care she needs barely can afford to do it and what you are putting her through is unconscionable and the people of America have not the majority of Americans believe in a woman's right to make decisions about her own body and that is why in every state where this issue has been on the ballot in red and blue States both the people of America have voted for Freedom vice president to respond another lie it's another lie I have been a leader on IVF which which is feralization the IVF I have been a leader in fact when they got a very negative decision on IVF from the Alabama courts I saw the people of Alabama and the legislature two days later voted it in I've been a leader on it they know that and everybody else knows it I have been a leader on fertilization IVF and the other thing they you should ask will she allow abortion in the eighth month ninth month seventh month come on okay would you do that why don't you ask her that question why don't you the because under question you could do abortions in the seventh month the eth month the ninth month and probably after birth just look at the governor former governor of of Virginia the governor of Virginia said we put the baby aside and then we determine what we want to do with the baby president Trump thank you we're going to turn now to immigration and border security we know it's an issue that's important to Republicans Democrats voters across the board uh in this country vice president Harris you were tasked by President Biden with getting to the root causes of migration from Central America we know that illegal border crossings reached a record high in the Biden Administration this past June President Biden imposed tough new Asylum restrictions we know the numbers since then have dropped significantly but my question to you tonight is why did the administration wait until six months before the election to act and would you have done anything differently from President Biden th this so I'm the only person on this stage who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns drugs and human beings and let me say that the United States Congress including some of the most conservative members of the United States Senate came up with a border security bill bill which I supported and that bill would have put 1,500 more border agents On the Border to help those folks who are working there right now over time trying to do their job it would have allowed us to stem the flow of fentol coming into the United States I know there are so many families watching tonight who have been personally affected by The Surge of fentol in our country that bill would have put more resources to allow us to prosecute transnational Criminal organizations for trafficking in guns drugs and human beings but you know what happened to that bill Donald Trump got on the phone called up some folks in Congress and said kill the bill and you know why because he'd prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem and understand this comes at a time where the people of our country actually need a leader who engages in Solutions who actually addresses the problems at hand but what we have in the former president is someone who would prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem and I'll tell you something he's going to talk about immigration a lot tonight even when it's not the subject that is being raised and I'm going to actually do something really unusual and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch you will see during the course of his rallies he talks about fictional characters like cannibal Lector he will talk about windmills cause cancer and what you will also notice no is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom and I will tell you the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you you will not hear him talk about your needs your dreams and your and your desires and I'll tell you I believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first and I pledge to you that I will vice president Harris thank you president Trump on that point I want to get your response I would like to respond let me just ask though why did you try to kill that bill and successfully so that would have put thousands of additional agents in officers On the Border first let me respond this to the rallies she said people start leaving people don't go to her rallies there's no reason to go and the people that do go she's busting them in and paying them to be there and then showing them in a different light so she can't talk about that people don't leave my rallies we have the biggest rallies the most incredible rallies in the history of politics that's because people want to take their country back our country is being lost we're a failing nation and it happened three and a half years ago and what what's going on here you're going to end up in World War II just to go into another subject what they have done to our country by allowing these millions and millions of people to come into our country and look at what's happening to the towns all over the United States and a lot of towns don't want to talk not going to be Aurora or Springfield a lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it in Springfield they're eating the dogs the people that came in they're eating the cats they're eating they're eating the pets of the people that live there and this is what's happening in our country and it's a shame as far as rallies are concerned as far as the reason they go is they like what I say they want to bring our country back they want to make America great again it's very simple phrase make America great again she's destroying this country and if she becomes president this country doesn't have a chance of success not only success will end up being Venezuela on steroids I just want to clarify here you bring up Springfield Ohio and ABC News did reach out to the city manager there uh he told us there have been no credible reports of specific claims of pets being harmed injured or abused by individuals within the Immigrant Community I've seen people on television let just say here this is people on television say my dog was taken and used for food so maybe he said that and maybe that's a good thing to say for a city manager I'm not taking this from telis people telion do eaten by the people that went there again the Springfield City manager says there's no evidence of that vice president car I'll let you respond to the rest of what you've heard you talk about extreme um you know I this is I think one of the reasons why in this election I actually have the endorsement of 200 Republicans who have formally worked with President Bush Mitt Romney and John McCain including the endorsement of for former Vice President Dick Cheney and Congress member Liz Cheney and if you want to really know the inside track on who the former president is if he didn't make it clear already just ask people who have worked with him his former Chief of Staff of fourstar general has said he has contempt for the Constitution of the United States his former National Security adviser has said he is dangerous and unfit his former Secretary of Defense has said the nation the Republic would never survive another Trump term and when we listen to this kind of rhetoric when the issues that affect the American people are not being addressed I think the choice is clear in this election President Trump I'll give you a quick minute to respond here uh thank you because when I hear that see I'm a different kind of a person I fired most of those people not so graciously they did bad things or a bad job I fired them they never fired one person they didn't fire anybody having to do with Afghanistan and the Taliban and the 13 people who's who were just killed viciously and violently killed and I got to know the parents and the family they didn't fire they should have fired all those generals all those top people because that was one of the most incompetently handled situations anybody has ever seen so when somebody does a bad job I fire him and you take a guy like esper he was no good I fired him so he writes a book another one writes a book because with me they can write books with nobody else can they but they have done such a poor job and they never fire anybody look at the economy look how look at the inflation they didn't fire any of their economists they have the same people that's a good way not to have books written about you but just to finish I got more votes than any Republican in history by far in fact I got more votes than any president sitting president in history by far let me continue on immigration it was what you wanted to talk about earlier so let's get back to your deportation uh proposal that the vice president has reacted to as well president Trump you call this the largest domestic deportation operation in the history of our country you say you would use the National Guard you say if things get out of control you'd have no problem using the US military you also said you would use local police uh how would you uh Deport 11 million undocumented immigrants I know you you believe that number is is much higher take us through this what does this look like will authorities be going door too in this country yeah it is much higher because of them they allowed criminals many many millions of criminals they allowed terrorists they allowed Common Street criminals they allowed people to come in drug dealers to come into our country and then now in the United States and told by their countries like Venezuela don't ever come back or we're going to kill you do you know the crime in Venezuela and crime in countries all over the world is way down you know why because they've taken their criminals off the street and they've given them to her to put into our country and this will be one of the greatest mistakes in history for them to allow and I think they probably did it because they think they're G to get votes but it's not worth it because they're they're destroying the fabric of our country by what they've done there's never been anything done like this at all they've destroyed the fabric of our country millions of people let in and all over the world crime is down all over the world except here crime here is up and through the roof despite their fraudulent statements that they made crime in this country is through the roof and we have a new form of crime it's called migrant crime and it's happening at levels that nobody thought possible president Trump as you know the FBI says overall violent crime is actually coming down in this country but by excuse me the FBI defra they were defrauding statements they they didn't include the worst cities they didn't include the cities with the worst crime it was a a fraud just like their number of 88,000 jobs that they said they created turned out to be a fraud president Trump thank you I'll let you respond vice president Harris well I think this is so rich coming from someone who has been prosecuted for National Security crimes economic crimes election interference has been found liable for sexual assault and his next big Court appearance is in November at his own criminal sentencing and let's be clear where each person stands on the issue of what is important about respect for the rule of law and respect for law enforcement the former vice president called for defunding federal law enforcement 45,000 agents get this on the day after he was arraigned on 34 felony counts so let's talk about what is important in this race it is important that we move forward that we turn the page on this same old tired rhetoric and address the needs of the American people address what we need to do about the housing shortage which I have a plan for address what we must do to support our small businesses address Bringing Down the price of groceries but frankly the American people are exhausted with this same old tired Playbook vice president Harris thank you excuse me every one of those cases was started by them against their political opponent and I'm winning most of them and I will win the rest on appeal and you saw that with the decision that came down just recently from the Supreme Court I'm winning most of them but those are cases it's called weaponization never happened in this country they weaponized the justice department every one of those cases was involved with the doj from Atlanta and fawny Willis to to the uh Attorney General of New York and the da of New York York every one of those cases and then they say oh he was he's a criminal they're the ones that made them go after me by the way Joe Biden was found essentially guilty on the documents case and what happened in my documents case they said oh that's the toughest of them all a complete and total Victory two months ago it was thrown out its weaponization and they used it and it's never happened in this country they used it to try and win an election their fake cases president Trump thank you a really quick response here vice president Harris on this notion of weaponization of the justice department well let's talk about extreme and understand the context in which this election in 2024 is taking place the United States Supreme Court recently ruled that the former president would essentially be immune from any misconduct if he were to enter the White House again understand this is someone who has openly said he would terminate I'm quoting terminate the constitution of the United States that he would weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies someone who has openly expressed disdain for members of our military understand what it would mean if Donald Trump were back in the white house with no guard rails because certainly we know now the court won't stop him we know JD Vance is not going to stop him it's up to the American people vice president Harris thank you lindsy vice president Harris in your last R foron please this is the one that weaponized not me she weaponized I probably took a bullet to the head because of the things that they say about me they talk about democracy I'm a threat to democracy they're the threat to democracy with a fake Russia Russia Russia investigation that went nowhere we have a lot to get to Lindsay vice president Harris in your last run for president you said you wanted to ban fracking now you don't you wanted mandatory government buyback programs fora weapons now your campaign says you don't you supported decriminalizing border crossings now you're taking a harder line I know you say that your values have not changed so then why have so many of your policy positions changed so my values have not changed and I'm going to discuss every one of the at least every point that you've made but in particular let's talk about fracking because we're here in Pennsylvania I made that very clear in 2020 I will not ban fracking I have not banned fracking as vice president United States and in fact I was the tiebreaking vote on the inflation reduction act which opened new leases for fracking my position is that we have got to invest in diverse sources of energy so we reduce our Reliance on foreign oil we have had the largest increase in domestic oil production in history because of an approach that recognizes that we cannot over rely on foreign oil as it relates to my values let me tell you I grew up a middle class kid raised by a hardworking mother who worked and saved and was able to buy our first home when I was a teenager the values I bring to the importance of home ownership knowing not everybody got handed $400 million on a silver platter and then filed bankruptcy six times is a value that I bring to my work to say we are going to work with the private sector and home builders to increase 3 million homes increase by 3 million hom by the end of my first term my work that is related to having a friend when I was in high school who was sexually assaulted by her stepfather and my focus then on protecting women and children from violent crime is based on a value that is deeply grounded in the importance of standing up for those who are most vulnerable my work that is about protecting Social Security and Medicare is based on longstanding work that I have done protecting seniors from scams my value vales have not changed and what is important is that there is a president who actually brings values and a perspective that is about lifting people up and not beating people down and name calling the true measure of the leader is the leader who actually understands the strength is not in beating people down it's in lifting people up I intend to be that president president Trump your resp well first of all I wasn't given 400 million dollars I wish I was my father was a Brooklyn Builder Brooklyn Queens and a great father and I learned a lot from him but I was given a fraction of that a tiny fraction and I built it into many many billions of dollars many many billions and when people see it they are even surprised so we don't have to talk about that fracking she's been against it for 12 years uh defund the police she's been against that forever she gave all that stuff up very wrongly very horribly and everybody's laughing at it okay they're all laughing at it she gave up at least 12 and probably 14 or 15 different policies like she was big on defund the police in Minnesota she went out wait a minute I'm talking now if you don't mind please does that sound Familia she went out she went out in Minnesota and wanted to let criminals that killed people that burned down Minneapolis she went out and raised money to get them out of jail she did things that nobody would ever think of now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison this is a radical left liberal that would do this she wants to confiscate your guns and she will never allow fracking in Pennsylvania if she won the election fracking in Pennsylvania will end on day one just to finish one thing so important in my opinion so I got the oil business going like nobody has ever done before they took when they took over they got rid of it started getting rid of it and the prices were going up the roof they immediately let these guys go to where they were I would have been five times four times five times higher because you're talking about three and a half years ago they got it up to where I was because they had no choice because the prices of energy would were quadrupling and doubling you saw what happened to gasoline so they said let's go back to Trump but if she won the election the day after that election they'll go back to destroying our country and oil will be dead fossil fuel will be dead we'll go back to windmills and we'll go back to solar where they need a whole desert to get some energy to come out you ever see a solar plant by the way I'm a big fan of solar but they take 400 500 Acres of desert soil these are not good things for the environment thank you Lindsay thank you we have an election in just 56 days and I want to talk about the peaceful transfer of power which of course we all know is a Cornerstone of our democracy and the role of a president in a moment of Crisis Mr President on January 6th you told your supporters to March to the capital you said you would be right there with them the country and the world saw what played out of the capital that day the officers coming under attack AIDS in the west wings say you watched it unfold on television off the Oval Office you did send out tweets but it was more than two hours before you sent out that video message telling your supporters to go home is there anything you regret about what you did on that day you just said a thing that isn't covered peacefully and patriotically I said during my speech not later on peacefully and patriotically and nobody on the other side was killed Ashley babbett was shot by an outof control police officer that should have never ever shot her it's a disgrace but we didn't do this group of people that have been treated so badly I ask what about all the people that are pouring into our country and killing people that she allowed to pour in she was the bordar remember that she was the bordar she doesn't want to be called the bordar because she's embarrassed by the Border in fact she said at the beginning oh I'm surprised you're not talking about the Border yet that's because she knows what a bad job they've done what about those people what's when are they going to be prosecuted when are these people from countries all over the world not just South America they're coming in from all over the world David all over the world and crime rates are down all over the world because of it but one of those David one of those people going to be prosecuted one of the people that burned down Minneapolis going to be prosecuted or in Seattle they went into Seattle they took over a big percentage of the city of Seattle when are those people going to be prosecuted but let me just ask you you might ask her that question you were the president you were watching it unfold on television it's a very simple question as we move forward toward another election is there anything you regret about what you did on that day Yer I had nothing to do with that other than they asked me to make a speech I showed up for a speech I Saidi think it's going to be big I went to Nancy Pelosi and the mayor of Washington DC and the mayor put it back in writing as you know I said you know this is going to be a very big Rally or whatever you want to call it and again it wasn't done by me it was done by others I said I'd like to give you 10,000 National Guard or soldiers they rejected me Nancy Pelosi rejected me it was just two weeks ago her daughter has a tape of her saying she is fully responsible for what happened they want to get rid of that tape it would have never happened if Nancy Pelosi and the mayor of Washington did their jobs I wasn't responsible for security Nancy Pelosi was responsible she didn't do her job the question was about you as president not about former speaker Pelosi but I do want vice president Harris to respond here I was at the capital on January 6th I was the vice president elect I was also so an acting Senator I was there and on that day the president of the United States incited a violent mob to attack our nation's capital to desecrate our nation's capital on that day 140 law enforcement officers were injured and some died and understand the former president has been indicted and impeached for exactly that reason but this is not an isolated situation let's remember Charlottesville where there was a mob of people carrying tiki torches spewing anti-semitic hate and what did the president then at the time say there were fine people on each side let's remember that when it came to the proud boys a militia the president said the former president said stand back and stand by so for everyone watching who remembers what January 6th was I say we don't have to go back let's not go back we're not going back it's time to turn the page and if that was a bridge too far for you well there is a place in our campaign for you to stand for country to stand for our democracy to stand for rule of law and to end the chaos and to end the approach that is about attacking the foundations of our democracy because you don't like the outcome and be clear on that point Donald Trump the candidate has said in this election there will be a blood bath if this and the outcome of this election is not to his liking let's turn the page on this let's not go back let's chart a course for the future and not go backwards to the past let me just follow up here it was a different term and it was a term that related to energy because they have destroyed our energy business that was where bloodbath was also on Charlottesville that story has been as you would say debunked Laura Ingram Sean Hannity Jesse all of these people they covered it if they go an extra sentence they will see it was perfect it was debunked in almost every newspaper but they still bring it up just like they bring 2025 up they bring all of the stuff up I ask you this you talk about the capital why are we allowing these millions of people to come through on the southern border how come she's not doing anything and I'll tell you what I would do and I would be very proud to do it I would say we would both leave this debate right now I'd like to see her go down to Washington DC during this debate because we're wasting a lot of time go down to because she's been so bad it's so ridiculous go down to Washington DC and let her sign a bill to close up the Border because they have the right to do it they don't need bills they have the right to do it the president of the United States you'll get him out of bed you'll wake him up at four o'clock in the afternoon you'll say come on come on down to the office let's sign a bill If he if he signs a bill that the border is closed all he has to do is say it to the border patrol who are phenomenal if they do that the border is closed those people are killing many people unlike j6 we talked immigration here tonight I do want to focus on this next issue to both of you because it really brings us uh this into Focus Truth uh in these times that we're living in uh Mr President for three and a half years after uh you lost the 2020 election you repeatedly falsely claim that you won many times saying you won in a landslide in the past couple of weeks leading up to this debate uh you have said quote you lost by a whisker that you quote didn't quite make it that you came up a little bit short I that are you now acknowledging that you lost in 2020 I don't acknowledge it at all I said that sarcastically you know that we said oh lost by a whisker that was said sarcastically look there's so much proof all you have to do is look at it and they should have sent it back to the legislatures for approval I got almost 75 million votes the most votes any sitting president has ever gotten I was told if I got 63 which was what I got in 2016 you can't be beaten the election people should never be thinking about an election is fraudulent we need two things we need walls we need and we have to have it we have to have borders and we have to have good elections our elections are bad and a lot of these illegal immigrants coming in they're trying to get them to vote they can't even speak English they don't even know what country they're in practically and these people are trying to get them to vote and that's why they're allowing them to come into our country I did watch all of these pieces of video I I didn't detect the sarcasm lost by whisker we didn't quite make it and we should just point out here as clarification and you know this you and your allies 60 cases in front of many judges many of them at and said there was standing that's the other thing they said we didn't have standing a technicality can you imagine a system where a person in an election doesn't have standing the president of the United States doesn't have standing that's how we lost if you look at the facts and I'd love to have you you'll do a special on it I'll show you Georgia and I'll show you Wisconsin and I'll show you Pennsylvania and I'll show you we have so many facts and statistics but you know what that doesn't matter because we have to solve the problem that we have right now that's old news and the problem that we have right now is we have a nation in Decline and they have put it into decline we have a nation that is dying David Mr President thank you uh vice president Harris you heard the president there tonight he said he didn't say that that he lost by whisker so he still uh believes he did not lose the election uh that was won by President Biden uh and yourself but I do want to ask you about something that's come up in the last couple of days this was a post from uh president Trump about this upcoming election just weeks away he said when I win those people who cheated and then he lists donors voters election officials he says we'll be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law which will include long-term prison sentences one of your campaign's top lawyers responded saying we won't let Donald Trump intimidate us we won't let him suppress the vote is that what you believe he's trying to do here Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people so let's be clear about that and clearly he is having having a very difficult time processing that but we cannot afford to have a president of the United States who attempts as he did in the past to upend the will of the voters in a free and fair election and I'm going to tell you that I have traveled the world as vice president United States and world leaders are laughing at Donald Trump I have talked with military leaders some of whom worked with you and they say you're a disgrace and when you then talk in this way in a presidential debate and deny what over and over again are court cases you have lost because you did in fact lose that election it leads one to believe that perhaps we do not have in the candidate to my right the temperament or or the ability to not be confused about fact that's deeply troubling and the American people deserve better I'll give you one minute to respond Mr President let me just tell about world leaders Victor Orban one of the most respected man they call him a strong man he's a he's a tough person smart prime minister of Hungary they said why is the whole world blowing up three years ago it wasn't why is it blowing up he said because you need Trump back as president they were afraid of him China was afraid and I don't like to use the word afraid but I'm just quoting him China was afraid of him North Korea was afraid of him look at what's going on with North Korea by the way he said Russia was afraid of him I ended the nordstream 2 Pipeline and Biden put it back on day one but he ended the XL Pipeline the XL pipeline in our country he ended that but he let the Russians build a pipeline going all over Europe and heading into Germany the biggest pipeline in the world look Victor Orban said it he said the most respected most feared person is Donald Trump we had no problems when Trump was president but when this weak pathetic man that you saw at a debate just a few months ago that if he weren't in that debate he'd be running on set of H he got no votes he got 14 million votes what you did you talk about a threat to democracy he got 14 million votes and they threw him out of office and you know what I'll give you a little secret he hates her he can't stand her but he got 14 million votes they threw out she got zero votes and when she ran she was the first one to leave because she failed and now she's running I don't understand it but I'm okay with it because your time is up I we're going to do very well we've got a lot more to get to Turning now to the Israel Hamas War and the hostages who are still being held Americans among them vice president Harris in December you said quote Israel has a right to defend itself but you added quote it matters how saying International humanitarian law must be respected Israel must do more to protect innocent civilians you said that nine months ago now an estimated 40,000 Palestinians are dead nearly 100 hostages remain just last week prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said there's not a deal in the making President Biden has not been able to break through the stalemate how would you do it well let's understand how we got here on October 7 Hamas a terrorist organization slaughtered 12 00 Israelis many of them young people who were simply attending a concert women were horribly raped and so absolutely I said then I say now Israel has a right to defend itself we would and how it does so matters because it is also true far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed children mothers what we know is that this war must end it must when end immediately and the way it will end is we need a ceasefire deal and we need the hostages out and so we will continue to work around the clock on that work around the clock also understanding that we must chart a course for a two-state solution and in that solution there must be security for the Israeli people and Israel and in equal measure for the Palestinians but the one thing I will assure you always I will always always give Israel the ability to defend itself in particular as it rates to as it relates to Iran and any threat that Iran and its proxies posed to Israel but we must have a two-state solution where we can rebuild Gaza where the Palestinians have security self-determination and the dignity they so rightly deserve president Trump how would you negotiate with Netanyahu and also Hamas in order to get the hostages out and prevent the killing of more innocent civilians in Gaza if I were president it would have never started if I were president Russia would have never ever I know Putin very well he would have never and there was no threat of it either by the way for four years have gone into Ukraine and killed millions of people when you add it up far worse than people understand what's going on over there but when she mentions about Israel all of a sudden she hates Israel she wouldn't even meet with Netanyahu when he went to to make a very important speech she refused to be there because she was at a sority party of hers she wanted to go to the sority party she hates Israel if she's president I believe that Israel will not exist within two years from now and I've been pretty good at predictions and I hope I'm wrong about that one she hates Israel at the same time in her own way she hates the Arab population because the whole place is going to get blown up Arabs Jewish people People Israel Israel will be gone it would have never happened Iran was broke under Donald Trump now Iran has $300 billion doll because they took off all the sanctions that I had Iran had no money for Hamas or Hezbollah or any of the 28 different uh spheres of Terror and they are spheres of Terror horrible Terror they had no money it was a big story and you know it you covered it very well actually they had no money for Terror they were broke now they're a rich nation and now what they're doing is they're spreading that money around look at what's happening with the hutis and Yemen look at what's going on in the Middle East this would have never happened I will get that settled and fast and I'll get the war with Ukraine and Russia ended if I'm president-elect I'll get it done before even becoming president vice president Harris he says you hate Israel oh that's absolutely not not true I have my entire career and life supported Israel and the Israeli people he knows that he's trying to again divide and and distract from the reality which is it is very well known that Donald Trump is weak and wrong on National Security and foreign policy it is well known that he admires dictators wants to be a dictator on day one according to himself it is well known that he said of Putin that he can do whatever the hell he wants and go into Ukraine it is well known that he said when Russia went into Ukraine it was brilliant it is well known he exchanged love letters with Kim Jong-un and it is absolutely welln that these dictators and autocrats are rooting for you to be president again because they're so clear they can manipulate you with flattery and favors and that is why so many military leaders who you have worked with have told me you are a disgrace that is why we understand that we have to have a president who is not consistently weak and wrong on National Security including the importance of upholding and respecting in highest regard our military vice president Harris thank you they're the ones and she's the one that caused it that's week on National Security by allowing Every Nation last month for the year 168 different countries sending people into our country their crime weights are way down Putin endorsed her last week said I hope she wins and I think he meant it because what he's gotten away with is absolutely incredible it wouldn't have happened with me the leaders of other countries think that they're weak and incompetent and they are they're grossly incompetent and I just ask one question why does Biden go in and kill the Keystone Pipeline and approve the single biggest deal that Russia's ever made nordstream 2 the biggest pipeline anywhere in the world going to Germany and all over Europe because they're weak and they're ineffective and Biden by the way get paid a lot of money thank you we have a lot of issues to get to we'll be right back with much more of this historic ABC News presidential debate from the national Constitution Center right here in Philadelphia back at you [Music] [Music] [Music] your mic is off peace family it's your brother Mark my hill we are taking a quick break uh not our break but the Network's break from the debate between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris it started off as I expected a little slow but it got spicier and spicier and spicier it is an interesting conversation to be had uh and we will be having it at the end but so far I just want to say this has gone in several interesting directions uh obviously challenging each other's uh statements each other's inconsistencies uh contradictions uh there has been live fact checking for sure although most of it seems to be toward Donald Trump it would be interesting to see what the live fact checking would look like if also uh KLA Harris pressed on certain statements uh also it's interesting to see when they're pressed to answer a question yes or no neither seems to do that Donald Trump absolutely would not answer that question about the federal abortion ban K Harris wasn't asked a yes or no question but she was asked to sort of explain the radical shift in her policy positions and you know she took the out that the moderator gave her by saying you know my values haven't changed and then she veered veed hard left or right or whatever you know um she's done an excellent job of baiting Donald Trump uh whether it's talking about his crowd sizes or whether it's talking about how world leaders see him he's moved away from his strongest positions and chased her down a rabbit hole while she looks at him like a crazy person because by the second half of uh their exchange Donald Trump was looking increasingly unhinged it was it was it was quite a sight to see the question is did K Harris do anything to convince middle of the road voters or Trump voters or did Donald Trump do anything to convince middle of the road or Harris supporters that's the question here many people will go into this debate with their own perspectives with their own points of view and if you're a Trumper Trump didn't do anything to dissuade you from that if you are a Harris person I'm not sure Trump did anything to change your opinion so what I'm look for in the second half here and we'll talk about with our with our experts at the end is did anyone make a compelling or persuasive position on the question of Border policy on the question of abortion on the question of Israel Palestine which as I tweeted was the shortest segment why because there's no discernable difference between the two in lots of ways and became who loves Israel more uh which if you're KLA Harris you been framed as a Marxist anti-semite who wants to quote Donald Trump uh was it TR was it uh transgender operations on illegal aliens who are in prison who prison like that's a tough one you know um so we'll be covering all of that we'll get to the bottom of it right right now if I were scoring this on points I would have KLA Harris up uh if you would have asked me that at the beginning I would not have said that it looked like he he started off strong hitting his points but it was in the rebuttal that KLA Harris so far has been stronger it's in the rebuttal that she's been able to press him uh and again get her uh get him rather out of his comfort zones and his safety spots and lure her L him over to her safety spots and comfort zones Again by talking about crowd size by talking about the perception of world leaders by talking about his criminal cases by talking about uh his financial situation whenever you say anything that does not Stoke his ego and God forbid challenges his ego Donald Trump will chase you down the rabbit hole and against Joe Biden he didn't have to display any discipline because Joe Biden was asleep uh but now he's got to do something different anyway it looks like we're about to return to the debate kamla Harris Donald Trump 2024 what a spectacle what a sight I cannot wait to talk about this with y'all I got Deontay Johnson here I got uh David Johns here I got Tiffany Lofton here the three of that want to talk and break this down let's let's defend Ukraine from Russia from Vladimir Putin to defend their sovereignty their democracy that it's in America's best interest to do so arguing that if Putin wins he may be embolden to move even further into other countries you have said you would solve this war in 24 hours you said so just before the break tonight how exactly would you do that and I want to ask you a very simple question tonight do you want Ukraine to win this War I want the war to stop I want to save lives that are being uselessly people being killed by the millions it's the millions it's so much worse than the numbers that you're getting which your fake numbers look we're in for 250 billion or more because they don't ask Europe which is a much bigger beneficiary to getting this thing done than we are they're in for $150 billion dollar less because Biden and you don't have the courage to ask Europe like I did with NATO they paid billions and billions hundreds of billions of dollars when I said either you pay up or we're not going to protect you anymore so that's maybe one of the reasons they don't like me as much as they like weak people but you take a look at what's happening we're in for 250 to 275 billion they're into 100 to 150 they should be forced to equalize with that being said I want to get the War settled I know zalinsky very well and I know Putin very well I have a good relationship and they respect your president okay they respect me they don't respect Biden how would you respect him why for what reason he hasn't even made a phone call in two years to Putin hasn't spoken to anybody they don't even try and get it that is a war that's dying to be settled I will get it settled before I even become president if I win when I'm president-elect and what I'll do is I'll speak to one I'll speak to the other I'll get them together that war would have never happened and in fact when I saw Putin after I left unfortunately left because our our country has gone to hell but after I left when I saw him building up soldiers he did it after I left I said oh he must be negotiating it must be a good strong point of negotiation well it wasn't because Biden had no idea how to talk to him he had no idea how to stop it and now you have millions of people dead and it's only getting worse and it could lead to World War I don't yourself David we're playing with World War III and we have a president that we don't even know if he's where is our president we don't even know if he's a president just to clarify they threw him out of a campaign like a dog we don't even know is he our president but we have a president that doesn't know he's alive your time is up with just to clarify in the question do you believe it's in the US best interest for Ukraine to win this war yes or no I think it's the US best interest to get this war finished and just get it done negotiate because we have to stop all of these human lives from being destroyed I want to take this to vice president Harris I want to get your thoughts on support for Ukraine in this moment but also as commanderin-chief if elected how would you deal with Vladimir Putin and would it be any different from what we're seeing from President Biden well first of all it's important to remind the former president you're not running against Joe Biden you're running against me I believe the reason that Donald Trump says that this war would be over within 24 hours is because he would just give it up and that's not who we are as Americans let's understand what happened here um I actually met with zansky a few days before Russia invaded tried through Force to change territorial boundaries to defy one of the most important International rules and Norms which is the importance of sovereignty and territorial integrity and I met with President zansky I shared with him American intelligence about how he could defend himself days later I went to NATO's Eastern flank to Poland and Romania and through the work that I and others did we brought 50 countries together to support Ukraine in its righteous defense and because of our support because of the air defense the ammunition the artillery the javelins the Abrams tanks that we have provided Ukraine stands as an independent and free country if Donald Trump were President Putin would be sitting in keev right now and understand what that would mean because Putin's agenda is not just about Ukraine understand why the European allies and our NATO allies are so thankful that you are no longer president and that we understand the importance of the greatest military Alliance the world has ever known which is NATO and what we have done to preserve the ability of zalinsky and the ukrainians to fight for their independence otherwise Putin would be sitting in ke with his eyes on the rest of Europe starting with Poland and why don't you tell the 800,000 polish Americans right here in Pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor and what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch vice president Harris thank you we've heard from both of you on Ukraine tonight Afghanistan came up in the last hour I I wanted her to respond to something you said earlier and I please I'll I'll give you a minute here Putin would be sitting in Moscow and he wouldn't have lost 300,000 men and women but he would have been sitting in Moscow quiet please he would have been sitting in Moscow much happier than he is right now but eventually you know he's got a thing that other people don't have he's got nuclear weapons they don't ever talk about that got nuclear weapons nobody ever thinks about that and eventually maybe he'll use it and maybe he hasn't been that threatening but he does have that something we don't even like to talk about nobody likes to talk about it but just so you understand they sent her to negotiate peace before this war started three days later he went in and he started the war because everything they said was weak and stupid they said the wrong things that war should have never started she was the Emissary they sent her in to negotiate with zalinski and Putin and she did and the war started three days later and that's the kind of talent we have with her she's worse than Biden in my opinion I think he's the worst president in the history of our country she goes down as the worst vice president in the history of our country but let me tell you something she is a horrible negotiator they sent her in to negotiate as soon as they left Putin did The Invasion president Trump thank you you did bring up something you said she went to negotiate with Vladimir Putin vice president Harris have you ever met Vladimir Putin can you clarify tonight yet again I said it at the beginning of this debate you're going to hear a bunch of Lies coming from this fell and that is another one when I went to meet with President zans I've now met with him over five times the reality is it has been about standing as America always should as a leader upholding International rules and Norms as a leader who shows strength understanding that the alliances we have around the world are dependent on our ability to look out for our friends and not favor our enemies because you adore strong men instead of caring about democracy and that is very much what is at stake here the president of the United States is commander and chief and the American people have a right to rely on a president who understands the significance of America's role and responsibility in terms of ensuring that their is stability and ensuring we stand up for our principles and not sell them for the for the benefit of personal flattery we've talked about Ukraine and Vladimir Putin I do want to talk about Afghanistan it came up in in the first hour of this debate I I wanted move on to Afghanistan said Trump did the most amazing thing I've ever seen he got these countries the 28 countries at the time to pay up he said I've never seen he's the head of NATO he said I've never seen for years we were saying almost all of NATO we were being ripped off by European nations both on trade and on NATO I got them to pay up by saying one of the statements you made before if you don't pay we're not going to protect you otherwise we would have never gotten it he said it was one of the most incredible jobs that he's ever seen done thank you I want to turn to Afghanistan it came up in the first hour of the debate and we witnessed a a poignant moment today on Capitol Hill honoring the soldiers who died in the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan I do want to ask the vice president uh do you believe you bear any responsibility in the way that withdrawal played out well I will tell you I agreed with President Biden's decision to pull out of Afghanistan four presidents said they would and Joe Biden did and as a result America's taxpayers are not paying the $300 million a day we were paying for that endless war and as of today there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world the first time this Century but let's understand how we got to where we are Donald Trump when he was president negotiated one of the weakest deals you can imagine he calls himself a dealmaker even his National Security adviser said it was a weak terrible deal and here's how it went down he bypassed the Afghan government he negotiated directly with a terrorist organization called the Taliban the negotiation involved the Taliban getting 5,000 terrorists Taliban terrorists released and get this no get this and the president at the time invited the Taliban to Camp David a place of stored significance for us as Americans a place where we honor the importance of American diplomacy where we invite and receive respected world leaders and this former president as president invited them to Camp David because he does not again appreciate the role and responsibility of the president of the United States to be commanderin-chief with a level of respect and this gets back to the point of how he has consistently disparaged and demeaned members of our military fallen soldiers and the work that we must do to uphold hold the strength and the respect of the United States of America around the world vice president Harris thank you president Trump your response to her saying that you began the negotiations with the Taliban so if you take a look at that period of time the Taliban was killing our soldiers a lot of them with snipers and I got involved with the Taliban because the Taliban was doing the killing that's the Fighting Force within Afghanistan they don't bother doing that because you know they deal with the wrong people all the time but I got involved and Abdul is the head of the Taliban he is still the head of the Taliban and I told Abdul don't do it anymore you do it anymore you're gonna have problems and he said why do you send me a picture of my house I said you're gonna have to figure that out Abdul and for 18 months we had nobody killed we did have an agreement negotiated by Mike Pompeo it was a very good agreement the reason it was good it was we were getting out we would have been out faster than them but we wouldn't have lost the soldiers we wouldn't have left many Americans behind and we wouldn't have left we wouldn't have left $85 billion worth of brand new beautiful military equipment behind and just to finish they blew it the agreement said you have to do this this this this this and they didn't do it they didn't do it the agreement was was terminated by us because they didn't do what they were supposed to do and these people did the worst withdrawal and in my opinion the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country and by the way that's why Russia attacked Ukraine because they saw how incompetent she and her boss are President Trump thank you I want to move on now to race and politics in this country Mr President you recently said a vice president Harris quote I didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black and now she wants to be known as black I want to ask a bigger picture question here tonight why do you believe that appropriate to weigh in on the racial identity of your opponent I don't and I don't care I don't care what she is I don't care uh you make a big deal out of something I couldn't care less whatever she wants to be is okay with me but those were your words so I'm asking I don't know I don't know I mean all I can say is I read where she was not black that she put out and I'll say that and then I read that she was black and that's okay either one was okay with me that's up to her that's up to vice president Harris your thoughts on this I think it's I mean honestly I think it's a a tragedy that we have um someone who wants to be president who has consistently over the course of his career attempted to use race to divide the American people you know I do believe that the vast majority of us know that we have so much more in common than what separates us and we don't want this kind of approach that is just constantly trying to divide us and especially especially by race and let's remember how Donald Trump started he land he had owned land he owned buildings and he was investigated because he refused to rent property to black families let's remember this is the same individual who took out a full page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of five young black and Latino boys who were innocent the Central Park 5 took out a full page ad calling for their execution this is the same individual who spread bir or lies about the first black president of the United States and I think the American people want better than that want better than this want someone who understands as I do I travel our country we see in each other a friend we see in each other a neighbor we don't want a leader who is constantly trying to have Americans Point their fingers at each other I meet with people all the time who tell me can we please just have discourse about how we're going to invest in the aspirations and the Ambitions and the dreams of the American people knowing that regardless of people's color or the language their grandmother speaks we all have the same dreams and aspirations and Want a President Who invests in those not in hate and division vice president Harris thank you lindsy president Trump this is now your third time this is the most divisive presidency in the history of our country there's never been anything like it they're destroying our country and they come up with things like what she just said going back many many years when a lot of people including May Bloomberg agreed with me on the Central Park 5 they admitted they said they plead guilty and I said well if they plad guilty they'd badly hurt a person killed a person ultimately and if they pled guilty then they pled we're not guilty but this is a person that has to stretch back years 40 50 years ago because there's nothing now I built one of the greatest economies in the history of the world and I'm going to build it again it's going to be bigger better and stronger but they're destroying our economy they have no idea what a good economy is their oil policies every single policy and remember this she is Biden you know she's trying to get away from Biden I don't know the gentleman she says she is Biden the worst inflation we've ever had a horrible economy because inflation has made it so bad and she can't get away with that thank you your time is up I want resp I briefly clearly I I am not Joe Biden and I am certainly not Donald Trump and what I do offer is a new generation of leadership for our country one who believes in what is possible one who brings a sense of optimism about what we can do instead of always disparaging the American people I believe in what we can do to strengthen our small businesses which is why I have a plan let's talk about our plans and and let's compare the plans I have a plan to give startup businesses $50,000 tax deduction to pursue their Ambitions their Innovation their ideas their hard work I have a plan $6,000 for young families for the first year of your child's life to help you in that most critical stage of your child's development I have a plan that is about allowing people to be able to pursue what has been fleeting in terms of the American dream by offering a help with down payment of $25,000 down payment assistance for firsttime home buyers that's the kind of conversation I believe David that people really want tonight as opposed to a conversation that is constantly about belittling and name calling let's turn the page vice president Harris thank you let's turn to policy let have to move on President Trump let's turn to policy she has a plan to defund the police she has a plan to confiscate everybody's gun she has a plan to not allow fracking in Pennsylvania or anywhere else that's what her plan is until just recent for president has said something twice that I need to respond to I'm sorry we're we're going to move on vice president president Trump this is now your third time running for president you have long vowed to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act also known as Obamacare you have failed to accomplish that you now say you're going to keep Obamacare quote unless we can do something much better last month you said quote we're working on it so tonight nine years after you first started running do you have a plan and can you tell us what it is Obamacare was lousy Health Care always was it's not very good today and what I said that if we come up with something and we are working on things we're going to do it and we're going to replace it but remember this I inherited Obamacare because Democrats wouldn't change it they wouldn't vote for it they were unanimous they wouldn't vote to change it if they would have done that we would have had a much better plan than Obamacare but the Democrats came up they wouldn't vote for it I had a choice to make when I was President do I save it and make it as good as it can be never going to be great or do I let it rot and I felt I had an obligation even though politically it would have been good to just let it rot and let it go away I decided and I told my people the top people and they're very good people I have a lot of good people in this that Administration we read about the bad ones we had some real bad ones too and so do they they have really bad ones the difference is they don't get rid of them but let me just explain I had a choice to make do I save it and make it as good as it can be or do I let it rot and I saved it I did the right thing but it's still never going to be great and it's too expensive for people and what we will do is we're looking at different plans if we can come up with the plan that's going to cost our people our population less money and be better healthare than Obamacare then I would absolutely do it but until then I'd run it as good as it can be run so just yes or no you still do not have a plan I have concepts of a plan I'm not president right now but if we come up with something I would only change it if we come up with something that's better and less expensive and there are Concepts and options we we have to do that and you'll be hearing about it in the not too distant future vice president Harris in 2017 you supported Bernie Sanders proposal to do away with private insurance and create a government-run Health Care System two years later you proposed a plan that included a private insurance option what is your plan today well first of all I absolutely support and over the last four years as vice president private healthc care options but what we need to do is maintain and grow the Affordable Care Act but I I I'll get to that Lindsay I just need to respond to a previous point that the former president has made I've made very clear my position on fracking and then this business about taking everyone's guns away Tim Walls and I are both gun owners we're not taking anybody's guns away so stop with the continuous lying about this stuff as it relates to the Affordable Care Act understand let just look at the history to know where people stand when Donald Trump was President 60 times he tried to get rid of the Affordable Care Act 60 times I was a Senator at the time when I will never forget the early morning hours when it was up for a vote in the United States Senate and the late great John M who you have disparaged as being you don't like him you said at the time because he got caught he was an American hero the late great John McCain I will never forget that night walked onto the senate floor and said no you don't no you don't no you don't get rid of the Affordable Care Act you have no plan and what the Affordable Care Act has done is eliminate the ability of insurance companies to deny people with pre-existing conditions I don't have to tell the people watching tonight you remember what that was like remember when an insurance company could deny if a child had asthma if someone was a breast cancer survivor if a if a grandparent had diabetes and thankfully as I've been vice president and we over the last four years have strengthened the Affordable Care Act we have allowed for the first time Medicare to negotiate drug prices on behalf of you the American people Donald Trump said he was going to allow Medicare to negotiate drug drug prices he never did we did and now we have capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month since I've been Vice President we have capped the cost of prescription medication for seniors at $2,000 a year and when I am President we will do that for all people understanding that the value I bring to this is that access to health care should be a right and not just a privilege of those who can afford it and the plan has to be to strengthen the Affordable Care Act not get rid of it in terms of where Donald Trump stands on that I want to move to an issue that's important for a lot made a mistake at number one John McCain fought Obamacare for 10 years but it wasn't only him it were all of the Democrats that kept it going and you know what we can do much better than Obamacare much less money but she won't improve private insurance for people private medical insurance that's another thing she doesn't want to get people are paying privately for insurance that have worked hard and made money and they want to have private she wants everybody to be on government insurance where you wait six months for an operation that you need immediately president Trump thank you we have another issue that we'd like to get to that's important for a number of Americans in particular younger voters and that's climate change president Trump with regard to the environment you say that we have to have clean air and clean water vice president Harris you call climate change an existential threat the question to you both tonight is what would you do to fight climate change and vice president Harris we'll start with you one minute for you each well the former president had said the climate change is a hoax and what we know is that it is very real you ask anyone who lives in a state who has experienced these extreme weather occurrences who now is either being denied home insurance or it's being jacked up you ask anybody who has been um the victim of what that means in terms of losing their home having nowhere to go we know that we can actually deal with this issue the young people of America care deeply about this issue and I am proud that as vice president over the last four years we have invested a trillion dollars in a clean energy economy while we have also increased domestic gas production to Historic levels we have created over 800 100,000 new manufacturing jobs while I have been Vice President we have invested in clean energy to the point that we are opening up factories around the world Donald Trump said he was going to create manufacturing jobs he lost manufacturing jobs and I'm also proud to have the endorsement of the United Auto Workers and Shan Fain who also know that part of building a clean energy economy includes investing in American made products American automobiles it includes Foods growing what we can do around American manufacturing and opening up Auto plants not closing them like happened under Donald Trump vice president Harris thank you that didn't happen under Donald Trump let me just tell you they lost 10,000 manufacturing jobs this last month it's going they're all leaving uh they're building big Auto plants in Mexico in many cases owned by China they're building these massive plants and they think they're going to sell their cars into the United States because of these people what they have given to China is unbelievable but we're not going to let that we'll put tariffs on those cars so they can't come into our country because they will kill the United Auto Workers and any auto worker whether it's in Detroit or South Carolina or any other place what they've done to business and Manufacturing in this country is horrible we have nothing because they they refuse you know Biden doesn't go after people because supposedly China paid a millions of dollars he's afraid to do it between him and his son they get all this money from Ukraine they get all this money from all of these different countries and then you wonder why is he so loyal to this one that one Ukraine China why is he why did he get three and a half million dollars from the mayor of moscow's wife why did he get why did she pay him three and a half million dollar this is a crooked Administration and they're selling our country down the tubes president Trump thank you thank you we'll be right back with closing statements from both of our candidates in historic night this ABC News presidential debate from Philadelphia back in a [Music] moment ABC News presidential [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Mark your mic is muted again I'm G get that mic right welcome back tonight school special coverage of the Trump Harris debates or the Harris Trump debates whatever you want to call it uh it's been spirited and I wanted to take a second to take the temperature of some of our guests I'm going to start uh this time around with Deontay Johnson he is a trump surrogate uh Mr Johnson good to see you welcome to the show you've been watching this for the last hour and a half what do you make of it you know it's it's the same you know they both saying the same thing the same old stories and I agree it's it's really the same old thing um I do think the debate is a waste of time I think at this point both Americans know where they stand on both candidates both both Americans know whether they are voting for economy or whether they're voting for personality and I think that's where we're at you said voting for personality or voting for what was the other thing voting for economy and policy or personality gotcha so so and terms of the actual performance who who who do you think is winning the debate I I know you're you're you're a trump person but there were Biden people last time who said hey Biden is my guy but he's losing this debate uh I know Trump's your guy who's winning this debate in your estimation well you know it's it's really hard to tell I I'll be honest it's hard to tell the reason it's hard and the reason it's hard to tell is I mean um you have a three-on-one debate uh whether we want to agree with it or not we have a three-on-one debate you know uh but I do think kamla is not winning or losing but I don't think that she is has really gained anything from this debate I don't think either one has gained anything but I really think KLA needed to gain something from this debate and the biggest thing that she needed to gain was what are you going to do as president not defending what B President Biden did not going after what president Trump did but what is KLA Harris going to do for America and how is KLA Harris going to change inflation how is KLA Harris going to change the cost of food and grocery costs and uh what's happening at the border and that's not what I saw I saw her defending what the Biden Administration has done I saw her defending I mean I saw her going after what Trump has done but I had not yet saw what is KLA Harris going to do and I think she's just you know she I mean that's let let me do we only got I want to get Tiffany Lofton in here before the uh we go back to the debate I was watching make faces I know you in a room full of people you a debate watching I can imagine what the people are saying but what do you make of's so so mark first of all thank you for having me um second of all are we allowed to cuss on this channel is that okay we can we can okay I don't know what the he was talking about just now um in terms of we don't know who's winning there's a lot to that that needs to be proved In This Moment this is for many many many voters Across the Nation their first time watching kamla Harris run for president this is their very first time watching that it's not a rally it's not uh her being the vice president this is an opport it's not a it's not a keynote speech this is an opportunity for her to present to voters right now what her policies are where she stands on fracking abortion uh immigration where she stands on education where she stands on student debt where she stands on Gaza and Palestine which I did not like that answer that she gave I didn't like her fracking answer but this is her opportunity to tell us where she's at and how she differs from joee Biden um we we are clearly watching kamla Harris win this election win this debate win this um these the different pings and arguments and uh questions that are being brought up it is very clear that Donald Trump is under a lot of pressure he's completely terrified he is nervous uh he's embarrassed and he's also unable to come up with clear plans and explain to the voters how his thing is different from kamla Harris we gonna pause there we David Johnson at get back to the rest of this debate time has come for closing statements and vice president Harris we begin with you so I think you've heard tonight two very different Visions for our country one that is focused on the future and the other that is focused on the past and an attempt to take us backward but we're not going back and I do believe that the American people know we all have so much more in common than what SE Ates us and we can chart a new way forward and a vision of that includes having a plan understanding the aspirations the dreams the hopes the ambition of the American people which is why I intend to create an opportunity economy investing in small businesses in new families in what we can do around protecting seniors what we can do that is about giving hardworking folks a great and bringing down theost of living I believe in what we can do together that is about sustaining America's standing in the world and ensuring that we have the respect that we so right deserve including respecting our military and ensuring we have the most lethal fighting force in the world I will be a president that will protect our fundamental rights and freedoms including the right of a woman to make decisions about her own body and not have her government tell her what to do I'll tell you I started my career as a prosecutor I was a DA I was an attorney general the United State Senator and now Vice President I've only had one client the people and I'll tell you as a prosecutor I never asked a victim or a witness are you a Republican or a Democrat the only thing I ever ask them are you okay and that's the kind of President we need right now someone who cares about you and is not putting themselves first I intend to be a president for all Americans and focus on what we can do over the next 10 and 20 years to build back up our country by investing right now in you the American people vice president Harris thank you president Trump so she just started by saying she's gonna do this she's gonna do that she's going to do all these wonderful things why hasn't she done it she's been there for three and a half years they've had three and a half years to fix the Border they've had three and a half years to create jobs and all the things we talked about why hasn't she done it she should leave right now go down to that beautiful white house go to the capital get everyone together and do the things you want to do but you haven't done it and you won't do it because you believe in things that the American people don't believe in you believe in things like we're not going to Frack we're not going to take fossil fuel we're not going to do things that are going to make this country strong whether you like it or not Germany tried that and within one year they were back to building normal energy plants we're not ready for it we can't sacrifice our country for the sake of bad Vision but I just ask one simple question why didn't she do it we're a failing Nation We're a nation that's in serious decline we're being left at all over the world all over the world they're left I know the leaders very well they're coming to see they call me we're laughed at all over the world they don't understand what happened to us as a nation we're not a leader we don't have any idea what's going on we have wars going on in the Middle East we have wars going on with Russia and Ukraine we're going to end up in a third world war and it'll be a war like no other because of nuclear weapons the power of Weaponry I rebuilt our entire military she gave a lot of it away to the Taliban she gave it to Afghanistan what these people have done to our country and maybe toughest of all is allowing millions of people to come into our country many of them are criminals and they're destroying our country the worst president the worst vice president in the history of our country president Trump thank you and that is our ABC News presidential debate from here in Philadelphia at the national Constitution Center I'm lindsy Davis and I'm David mu thank you for watching here in the US and all over the world and from all of us here at ABC News good night [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back T night school on the mark official YouTube channel we've been giving you special coverage of the debate between vice president kamla Harris and former president Donald Trump it has been a bar burner as they say it was incredibly uh interesting engaging frustrating hilarious it was all the things but what we want to do here on the channel like we always do is not give you the traditional mainstream analysis we want to break down what happened we'll call balls and Strikes but we're also going to give you h a real deep dive into what was said what wasn't said what should have been said and what it all means and so joining me uh to do all of this are three very special guests I have with me David JNS uh he is the CEO and executive director of the national black Justice Coalition I'm also joined by Tiffany Lofton she is a National Education and labor organizer she's also the host of how how we get free podcast she was appointed by President Obama to serve on the White House initiative on educational Excellence for African-Americans in highered and of course David Johns also uh was was a part of a significant uh Brothers Keeper initiative with President Obama as well these are very accomplished and decorated Black Folk and of course also joined by Deontay Johnson who is the founder and president of the black conservative Federation uh he's also a trump surrogate thank you all for joining me I'm happy to be here with y'all uh I'm going to reiterate that we're going to give sophisticated analysis we are going to respect each other we are going to be civil we can call each other out in challenges we can even make them faces y'all all making but what we're not going to do is disrespect each other we GNA get right to it Deontay I feel like you might be a little outnumbered here so I'm going let you go first I'm going try to balance that out a little bit we have our own little version of electoral college here by the way just sincere question de tell you I know you said you're the founder and president of the black conservative Federation how many people are part of that so right now we have a staff of about 120 and we have a membership of about 8,000 currently wow okay so that means that there are you represent a sizable number of black Republicans who are if I'm reading you correctly leaning toward Trump when you watch the debate tonight did Trump speak to the issues that you care about and did he speak to them well you know I I think he he definitely spoke to the issues that um I care about I think that a lot of black Republicans care about I think that a lot of he's answer he mentioned questions that a lot of Independents have answered I mean who have ass um I just don't I don't think that this debate really changed anyone 's opinion on whether they're supporting Donald Trump or they're supporting KLA Harris I think that you know with being 50 days out Americans have really decided where they're at and they decided who they're going to support um I think that KLA Harris had the opportunity like I said to really give her a response on what she's going to do um and truly separate herself from Joe Biden but I believe that while trying to separate herself from Joe Biden she was put on the hot seat to actually defend Joe Biden more than separate herself and talk about her own policy David I want bring you in for the first time what what do you make of that that statement which statement to be more precise my good frat brother uh the the question about uh or or the point he just made about uh KLA Harris being forced to defend Trump so excuse me Biden so much that she wasn't able to articulate her own kind of policy Vision yeah agree I think that if people were listening to the vice president kamla Harris Madam vice president that she articulated this position that she has based on policy and I think that it would be a lazy response to suggest that that was all about President Biden in this moment where she is clearly the candidate for presidency um and that distinction is not lost on me as somebody that understands that they were part of a party ticket together um and so what I will honor is that the Republican brother named uh something that I appreciate which is that we're not listening to her position on the issues what people are listening for are these dog whistles that many people in the media have trained people to to expect um in ways that would affirm what it is he exactly saying but for people who have witnessed the last two hours of this debate we heard from Madame vice president kamla Harris articulate where she is on issues and we should honor that that is her position and not the position of the current sitting president okay fair enough Tiffany let's get to some of those issues it it the question for me is always who is uh the speech directed to there's something called the mode of address right who does this movie who does this film who does this newspaper article think you are when I watch them talk the mode of address seemed to be moderates undecided people and political moderates kamla Harris seem to and and and Donald Trump both attempted to speak to people who haven't made their mind up or who aren't so politically right leaning or left leaning that their decision is made up just depending on you know who who's running for office and so when I hear KLA Harris talk about border policy when I hear kamla Harris talk about fracking when I hear about Israel Palestine those are three issues right there where I was like there's not a strongly distinguishable position not just between her and Joe Biden which would make sense uh but between her and her Republican opponent when you heard the debate did you feel that that KLA Harris and we'll get to Trump in a moment do you feel that KLA Harris was was leaning toward the center or even to the right at times and if so why let me let me first start by saying this because I came in here on fire you had me answering questions in between the debate and the conversation and I wanted to make it extremely clear that I disagree which is why I cured um because I heard your rules in the beginning of this match and and and I want to be very clear about where I stand uh very clearly when we're talking to your audience Mark and and why I'm here I want to make sure people that are listening are not being um confused or told differently that it was not clear who was winning and who was not winning this um debate tonight and that what we learned from this debate was worth our time because it was so I want to apologize to the brother I don't want to call him Republican because I know he has a name I just forgot what it was but you are not my enemy brother I you and I are not running for president and if we was I would win but we're not running for president and so you are you are not my enemy and so I am naming that because me cussing was not to you personally so I just want to name absolutely good I want to make sure because Mark came out with the rules and I was like I hope nobody was offended and talk about me backstage so let me say this very clearly okay um I also want to I did theater for eight years Mark so mode of addressing audiences is really important to me and it's a skill that I learned in addition to those who were undecided and moderates I also want to believe that she and him were talking to well maybe her sorry uh vice president Kam Harris was talking to people who might be Republican voters and she was trying to skew or recruit them to her side she said multiple times during her uh during her answers that there were people who were Republicans who did not support Donald Trump she named how many Republicans did not like him how many people uh he fired that did not support him that came out and said he was a horrible boss how many voters how many congressional leaders did not support Donald Trump and so I think she was also trying to skew some of them to say listen it's either him or me and since you're not choosing him you got to choose me so that's answering your question I just think that she was catering also to those type of people I do think now on September 10th with less than 56 days left this is a um really interesting strategy to try to find the people who are on both sides of the aisle I'm going to be very honest I said earlier and I still believe kamla Harris is going to win this election however kamla Harris is not a radical person she's not a radical president she doesn't have radical policies she did however today demonstrate for the very first time what her issues are and I took a whole list of them in addition to naming some of the things when you ask when you ask me I'm G wait but in addition to naming some of the things that she didn't cover and talk about that I wanted her to talk about and some positions that she took and some positions that she took that I don't agree with however however I am very clear that Donald Trump this liar this this person who she's so Talent so wonderfully and so gracefully said is still having a hard time processing the last election that he lost I think that this person cannot be the president that we have in November for the next four years and so people needed to make a distinction tonight between kamla Harris and Joe Biden and tonight I think they actually got that Deontay would you agree with that at the very least that that a distinction was made between the two um kamla Harris certainly laid out what some of her issues were um some people have argued in the chat here and on social media and kind of some of the instant analysis that she laid out her issues but didn't lay out her policies um do you feel like you heard KLA Harris's policies clearly did she distinguish herself from Joe from from Donald Trump I get you don't agree with with her policies one way or the other did you at least hear the distinctions between the two so let me explain something I I am I I I I I like to very fair when it comes to politics I like to actually I believe in our elector system so I actually like to sit and listen to both sides you know yes I'm a republican yes I support president Trump but before I'm that I'm a political scientist and I really actually like to hear the policies and like to study how politics works and you know I heard her I heard a lot of her defense points um she definitely U clarified her fracking she want to clarify her fracking stance especially in Pennsylvania but I did not see anything different that separates her from Joe Biden um and you know and and that's hard because she was his vice president so yes they should be very similar but to show America the American people that what's happening under what happened under the Biden Administration will not happen under the KLA Harris Administration that's what I did question about that that's not the question though the question is ISA Harris different from Donald Trump Biden is not running he is somewhere asleep in the bed watch the replay tomorrow but the question the question that we should be answering is not it's commonly different from Biden it is is commonly different from Donald Trump and the answer is that was the question do you feel like she distinguished herself from from from Trump I think they're I think I think klin and uh Donald Trump are definitely different I mean today shows that definitely but that still hasn't shown the debate has not shown voters that had anything new we all we we we knew coming into the debate that they both coming into the debate In fairness the last time voters had to choose between Biden and Trump they chose Biden so it you could make the case that even if she hasn't distinguish your sufficiently from Biden that isn't exactly a losing strategy it's not like she's associating with John krey corre okay so so so okay fair enough okay so what let's get at some of these issues one of the issues again we've just talked about fracking and we've talked about border policy uh two places where where KLA Harris David John's does not have a particularly Progressive uh political position uh they ask her two questions one why have your positions changed on some of these issues and two have your values changed it seemed to me that she answered the values question strongly and clearly she said my values hav't changed uh I'm not sure she gave a clear answer on why the policies have changed I'm not I'm not asking you to be her surrogate here um but help me make sense of it you know is this a case as all candidates do of I'm adjusting to win this election and we'll work the rest of it out later or do you think she's had a natural shift in these in these areas uh how how do you see comla Harris's sort of evolution uh in terms of policy good brother you asked two questions precisely which is how do I explain the shift and then how do I articulate the context around her position now I want to clear that I'm not going to speak to her um shift or the process by which she's processed information and articulating where she is now with new information based on where she was when she articulated the position here to for my example is this when she was in California she certified gave marriages and then the state of California said that what you did we we were nullified so I just want to uh offer that it's difficult to do the best positioning with the information one has in hindsight dance so I'm not gonna play that game what I will say is this and this is my uh hot take unpopular opinion In This Moment honoring the question that I heard you ask our good brother I think is Deontay is that right is that your name brother Deontay our good brother Deonte based on the policy positions our vice president does does I have to articulate a single thing more to me for me to understand that she is the choice in this moment to defend democracy to advance antiblack policies to advance anti-lgbtq policies to ensure that I will not have to exist under the trauma associated with the Trump Administration and so there's a part of me that just wants to be clear and I've done a lot of reflection Upon This I know it is not popular she should not have to articulate a single thing for those who understand the importance of voting in defense of democracy or black people or crib people more generally to move forward that's how I enter this conversation you know we G disree on that and we can but that's where we are I want to be pragmatic so I want y'all to know how I answer this but is is is that pragmatic though and I'll tell you here's why it is we got an election in less than 60 days so we can talk about again in a way that I appreciate I love both of I'm talking about to my friends I know real life you Mark and you Tiffany I love both of you I love both of you up in your work but in this moment and I've said to Tiffany outside of this space there's something I'm missing let me know this is not about this is not about disagree he's been consistent about that he's been consistent there's two reasons why I disagree obvious I disagree on principle right um sure but but but as a pragmatic reason there are a lot of Voters who disagree with you there are a lot of but also but but the reality is we have an election that is me out me out me out a particular day hear me up he said it was unpopular when he started his it was it said it was unpopular but let's go we double dutches but but hear me out just hear me out what I'm saying though is even if I agree with you wholeheartedly and say forget the issues let's just do let's just win now and figure it out later let's say I took that position I'm saying that there are so many voters who will not vote for her unless they hear a principal position on Israel or and this and this is let so let so now let me just finish this part of it which is that this is my frustration so I I understand righteous and the nation around we need to talk about a third party candidate I understand people who are radical around genocide and will name Gaza maybe they'll name the Sudan but what I also know is two things in this moment we are not as critical of the democratic party as we are the Republican party what I know is that people who are righteous with all of rage do not have the same questions in this moment around these issues fracking border policies and Military as we do the Republican candidate it is not the same and in a world where I would love to again we got a dream afro futurism what is possible without the tainting of white supremacy let's talk about third party possibilities but in this moment there is an election that is going to be certified on a particular date and what I know is that we are past the uncommitted moment so I said to again Tiffany tell me if I'm out of line but the previous conversation I said to my sister if if I'm missing something let me know but if you decide I got it in the primary I got I'm uncommitted in the primary I need I need to hear her say this thing I need to hear the I need to hear the party moving this way the challenge is in this moment pragmatically is we are not in the primary we're in the general there's an election that's gonna happen if you don't vote for her one more thing one more thing one more thing you're effectively voting for him and what I also know is particularly around the border around military and around Palestine we don't have the same energy for that who we know is not about democracy or black people generally so I I'm not willing to equivocate around the if we if we have the same energy for her it's we might get to a different place I can disagree with her I can argue with her I cannot have a conversation with him he does not want me to exists and that for me is the line it's not about a policy issue I can't I don't have the luxury of being a single voter issue this for me pragmatism in the purest sense of the word I'm just saying like I'm looking right now at three states Michigan Wisconsin and Arizona where Jill Stein Jo Stein has 40% of Muslim voters uh in Michigan uh compared to 12% who say they plan to vote for Harris and Michigan that's not a small number in Wisconsin uh 44% compared to 39 for Harris and then Arizona 35 to 29 ideal there probably not that I mean there's more Muslims in Arizona than you might think but not as it's probably not a number that will shift the shift the need all I'm saying is that even if I take your position and I likely will vote the same way you're going to vote for the same reason but my point is there are voters who will vote for her if she says something different tonight there are voters who will say who will and there are voters who will not vote for her because she's gonna say that thing 100% a lose lose situation let me bring Tiffany in and IND Deon what what what where I'm going is just how much of what what I want to think through is how much of how much of the calculation um Tiffany do you think is is her saying look this is just where I am on fracking I'm not as Progressive as y'all are on fragen like you said she's not a progressive person look I no I said she's not a radical person R you said R me I would say she's not a progressive I'd say she's a liberal but without getting into the the the the Sam these terms don't matter these but these terms don't matter to my to the in the barber shop I'm with you the distinction between Progressive my barber shop is sophisticated I tell you and at a time y'all one at a time one at a time y'all here's what matters in my my barber shop I will say um is reparations a conversational reparations something we didn't talk about tonight right what does matter uh is and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't but there are a lot of people in my barber shop who care about her how how she talks about her own Blackness how she how she how she identifies which she did not answer that question didn't answer that question but but on I'm not saying she should or shouldn't I'm I'm simply talking she should I'm just saying and Tiff I want to hear your response again I'm not saying she should even have to dignify it but what I'm saying is at the end of the day to David's Point she is making choices that are going to make some voters say yes and other voters say no I'm wonder I'm I'm thinking how much of tonight was about the calcul that calculation and how much of it was this is just how I see things well this is the first time we have seen again I keep going back to this is the first time we have seen her because it is the first time we've seen her in a debate as somebody wunning for president in uh uh uh in a race against Donald Trump um not as a primary candidate there were other issues mark that I want to lift up I did not hear anybody tonight talk about the cost of living in terms of rent which is extremely extremely high in every Metropolitan city across the country which is what why exactly I move from Los Angeles to Atlanta because it's just a little bit cheaper folks did not talk about uh uh voting rights and talking about but a little bit cheaper but it is cheaper voting rights um they talked about how we need to protect democracy and many of the folks that I organize with um whether that be workers in the labor movement or whether that be students on college campuses across the country feel like our democracy right now is in chambles anyway as it already exists and we did not hear anybody else advance or thank you baby k the rent is too damn high and so we didn't hear anybody else talk about how um it is and we didn't hear anybody else talk about how we need to advance voting rights and we need to protect voting rights and we need to expand voting and make Universal voting I think we didn't hear any radical policies in that nature we didn't hear anything about education there was some conversations about student loan debt and people pointing fingers about who was going to get canceled and who wasn't going to get canceled we heard no issues whatsoever about education teachers uh pay wages whether it was um uh uh a gun violence we just had a shooting last week here in Atlanta where four people were shot and killed and nine people were injured we did not hear anything about the death penalty by a white boy thank you but death penalty reparations or jobs at all we heard about industrial jobs and Shan Fain keeps getting a shout out and I feel like one day the brother needs to run for president UAW is really doing they thing picking up a lot of space I think Sean P president oh my I thought you said Sean King and I was like I had to hear you all goad she did not she did not she did not that I said Sean Fain I said Shan Fain and I'm gonna leave that there we never gonna talk about Shan King brother okay whatever so Sean I just didn't think that was coming out your mouth well I said Shan Fain who was the president of the United Auto Workers for those who don't know UAW I can't even the G David move Okay so and and I needed to hear a different position on Palestine um and so there were issues that were missing to your question mark about whether or not the calculations were correct I I understand David what you are saying 100% I do and I I heard you when we was on the last call and I heard you when we talked about it one-on-one I understand what you are saying I also believe as an organizer um in in multiple subjects of of issues that affect people of color and communities of color and um and lowincome people that we need to continue to have people who are always demanding more and better yes we have less than 60 days but we have to continue to pull people in a Direction so that Kam laara says the right thing eventually or so that when we end up having a meeting with her because she will take a meeting with us unlike Donald Trump that we will be able to have a disciplined and dignitary conversation with her to move her on our to move her on our issues hopefully what was back somebody just uh Nam me in the comment run that back so I can actually analyze it respond oh shoot BR okay let me finish what I'm saying bring it up oh well David about to cuss somebody out the comments so I didn't need to pause but anyway so what happens and I got your bet because they better not talk about you but um I I I want to be very clear that like the closing statements we'll talk about wait wait wait coms keep roll let me let me keep saying what I'm saying I was very dis I was very disappointed Mark to hear both closing statements talk so deep and so proudly about enforcing and having the largest military of arms in the entire world and funding uh uh the military and and being scared about weaponry and being scared about World War I and Etc I I want to name that Donald Trump continued to lie on the stage tonight and the moderators did a really great job of factchecking him ain't nobody eating no dogs nowhere first of all and ain't nobody killing babies after babies have been born and Donald Trump did not acknowledge that and continued to come off the microphone and try to tell people he saw it on theele Vision this is not who needs to be the president but I am naming that her calculations at this moment in this debate didn't need to be how many people am I going to win because she still needs to do that in the next 60 days this first debate was is she different from Donald Trump and can she be presidential and does she have a plan and does she have an agenda and the answer to all of those questions is yes tonight J let me bring you in by the way y'all if y'all see me drinking it's because I'm thirsty USSA if you see me drinking from this glass it's cuz I'm thirsty from this one it's because Dave is wearing me out so just depend if it's this cup it's we having problems if it's this one I'm just thirsty Deontay let me bring you in here I want to ask you some Trump questions but but opportunity to respond to what was previously stated again I'm gonna give you more time because there's there's fewer of you than others I want to be fair go ahead so the first thing I want to say is I mean I I I responding to KLA Harris doesn't have to respond or doesn't have to explain her policy disain her position um that's the most politically ignorant conversation I've ever heard because you tried it you tried it is ignorant no no no you will not ignorant is a charged term and you will not you will not on this platform disrespect me as a person who said it I have worked for this government I haveed our country out of you missed a republican you grifter you tried the second okay okay I'm shutting this down for a second we're gonna take a 30 second break we're going to have to have David's muted right now um actually we're not gonna take a break David's muted right now David you're muted right now they're not gonna hear you right now I I we we we're going to uh he don't care that he's muted baby he gonna talk all right so we're gect David we're going to pause and I really want us to have this conversation because I want to get into some substantive issues here we're starting to get there we're going to uh not engage in the ad homins we're not going to we're not going to name call we're not going to curse at each other we're going to be respectful um um Dave is right now either pointing to his degrees or Compton I'm not sure which one um but um let's let's let's pick up we're going to try one more time otherwise the next person who who uses profanity we're going to have to we're going to have to pull you out of the room I want to have a good conversation we can't cuss Mark no cussing you know we can I mean generally when I say we can cuss I mean like we can cuss like damn that was crazy not like at each other um got it okay not not a not in a harmful way and it's not just cussing to David's point you know we're not gonna call each other ignorant we're not going to call each other any of these things um I'm GNA take a quick break we're going to come back I want to come back we take a quick break we're all G to Exhale and then we're going to pick back up with no at homm's full civility but deep analysis I want to get to these points I want to get to these issues all right y'all we'll be right back [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] all right I I want to get to this analysis deont I'm pick we're gonna pick back up where you came from we're all going to Exhale we're all gonna have an analysis here Deontay you were saying so I think yeah go ahead so I think if we if we look at the political map and when I have conversations with um individuals on the left when I have a conversation with moderates is that we have to understand what's important to who um we look at Michigan Pennsylvania Wisconsin um North Carolina Georgia you know people are on the fence they need to hear from both candidates on what it is that these candidates are supporting and this is something that is not just a issue that we see amongst Democrats we see it amongst Republicans all the time I remember in the Republican primary you know uh Ronda Sanchez thought that he was going to run just because he was different than Donald Trump but he his policies were horrible and so what we need to you have to explain that and I think that far too many times politicians run thinking well I don't have to explain this I don't have to everybody knows who I am this person is more evil and I don't have to explain why um so I think that's really the issue that I see um but also when we look at you know uh Tiffy you mentioned um a lot of the policy a lot of policy when it comes to rent when it comes to utilities when it comes to um and neither candidate mentioned it neither candidate mentioned um what's happening when it comes to education I know in Pennsylvania education is a very critical issue School choice and um Charter Schools that's a major issue in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin two targeted States um in Michigan the UAW that's a major T that's a major Point um that's a major position for the folks in Michigan Midwest and so yeah we didn't hear a lot of those points we didn't hear a lot me I agree with that yeah let me push you on that because we've been sort of theorizing and guessing to some extent why KLA Harris was taking certain positions Donald Trump seems to have wider field here Republicans are pretty organized they're pretty consistent they're gonna vote for Donald Trump because they want their issues Advanced even if Donald Trump isn't their ideal candidate Republicans are gonna vote for Donald Trump right correct so when he doesn't raise the issues that you care about that you just that you just addressed help me understand why also Donald Trump made a very interesting move right he he starts with the conspiracy theories and the lies about and I just have to call them lies the lies about um you know people having abortions in the nth and 10th and 12th month people in Nursery School having abort you know people getting aborted when they in middle school you know Donald Trump tells these extravagant lies about abortion not to make light of it buty but but he does this right um but then when they say Middle School Mark I'm just saying that's it's just it's just it's just as implausible and untrue as what he actually said right um but then but then so I wouldn't say I the question here the question you would say that what are they what are they're not lies what are they if you look at CN if you look at question I wouldn't say that is lie he they're not Li what Bill Bill did not the bill did not pass but Governor Ralph Northam did support late term abortions C use a lot of words use a lot of words if they're not lies if they're not lies if they're not lies what are they is it fact and and CNN even CNN even covers on how he's govern got backlashed on his point so okay you said you said say was not a lie was it a fact the answer is no so this is all this Creative Energy around so hold on hold hold on I'm going somewhere hold on hold on hold on David David hold on De the reason I'm using the word lies because Donald Trump on multiple occasions said there are states that allow he is a liar he is allergic to facts that allow for ninth month abortion there is no state that allows for the ninth month abortion you are now he also said abortion after people have been born which is not abortion right and and de de hold on hold on every everybody everybody stop Deontay what I'm saying is Donald Trump didn't say there are people who are proposing that he's saying there are states where it's happening even the evidence you've just shown to defend Donald Trump doesn't say say what Donald Trump said what Donald Trump said again is there are states where ninth month abortions happen meaning after the baby's born in the ninth month they're getting aborted or even in the night there's no state where that's true he was fact checked it was Cho it was proven not to be true hold on hear me out hear me out the reason why I'm calling it a lie and not just a mistake is because he's done it three times if you say to me what time did night school start tonight and I say at 10 o'clock and and chiping no Market actually started at 9: cool I made a mistake I misspoke right even though it's my sure it's questionable but you can trust me if I say it three more times in the same conversation at some point you got to ask either I don't understand time either I'm lying about time right like something something's got to give here and so that's why I'm using the word Li but I don't want to get hemmed up on the word lie my point is Donald Trump took a very hardcore speaking to the hard right on on abortion at one moment and then when he's asked about a federal abortion veto or a federal abortion ban whether he would veto the bill or not he seemed to hedge a bit Donald Trump in one moment has said hey I you know we need more time six weeks is enough at other times he's taking a step back I guess what I'm asking is is I want to ask the same question I've asked of KLA Harris is Donald Trump trying to play to the moderates is he trying to show that he's not an extremist or does he have a position that's simply not the same as his his hardcore right-wing Evangelical Breen that's the question well I I agree I think both parties and Donald Trump included are playing to moderates I mean right now the Republican voters don't matter Democratic voters don't matter right now it's the independent show and if you're an independent that's who is important and so both sides are trying to relate to to the independence and folks who are on the fence and swing voters so yeah I agree I think he is definitely trying to do it just like K is trying to do both of them are trying to do it that's what happens 50 days after election so now Deontay let's get at the actual answer he didn't give a straight answer on whether or not he would veto a federal ban on abortion or or or or federal abortion Bill excuse me um where does Donald Trump if a bill comes across his desk for a federal abortion ban what does Donald Trump sign the bill or does he VTO the bill I I can't I I can't speak for him I can't speak on I can't I can't I can't speak on where the president literally what does just I mean listen I'm just saying I can't speak on whether he would to assign the bill I don't know I'm not in that ER but I can say it's like just like he said is that with roie Wade the PO is back in the hands of the STA back in the hands of the states which is back in the hands of the people and so just like Ohio made their decision other states will make their decisions and I think that's what everyone actually wanted is for people to be able to decide what what they wanted so the folks in Illinois can decide that they want abortions legal while the folks in Tennessee or Mississippi can decide that they wanted illegal I think that is the the power is back in the hands of the people D do you believe that for all all laws and rules or just abortion actually I believe that all laws I should believe that all laws should be in the hands of States so whether or not government is too big so black people's right to access public accommodations you feel like should be up to the states I think it's I mean civil rights issues we I mean con you know we we've we we we've been there but when we come to when I say we've been there pause pause pause you like I pause David we've been there with roie Wade too right we've been there with lots of stuff that y'all want to redo so the question is do you believe that all laws should be up to the states or should some not be I mean there's some that there's some there's some nationally yes that should be up to Donald Trump when it but when it comes to but when it comes to laws like such as education like funding or education when it comes to laws that are specific to a state yes I think that they should be depending on the people of the state and not when I say the states I'm not saying the lawmakers of the state I'm saying the people they should be on the ballot I think everything should have an opportunity to be on the ballot to where the people who live there can make their decision ex so let me ask you this de would you would you also support the the abolishment of the Electoral College since you believe that the vote should be in the hand of the people I don't I mean if it's I know because electoral college is a national thing I mean is a national thing to where I mean California can't say oh we're going to keep the uh we're going to abolish Lector college and New York is going to say we're not going to do it and the electoral process still works so you can't say that oh I one state one state can't that's a national thing where everybody has to the whole country has to decide that and in college doesn't would you agree with me that if I agree with you the vote should be in Hand of the people so have a part in the background so I agree with you the vote should be in the hand of the people the Electoral College currently disrupts a lot of that so if we if you and I had to decide right now let's say you and I were working together to fix voting rights how does electoral get rid of electoral college people before we do elect I I don't want to focus too much on elect College I want there's something about this debate that I want to sorry he said it should be I get I get why you asked it um okay that could be a whole different segment I wanna I want to ask you one more question I'm gonna bring David back in uh David is gonna be on his best behavior um as always um you could least pretend you are David he a even looking like he going like that right T Tiffany um I think and I said this earlier I think one of the most indistinguishable moments between Donald Trump and um KLA Harris was on the question of Palestine it felt like they were trying to out ire each other it felt like I mean the accusation was she hates Israel he's she's like no I don't let me tell you you how how much I don't he said you were uh he told her that she disrespects Netanyahu he and and that was the proof that she hates Israel so much so so that she didn't show up for the The Joint uh chamber uh session speci he said and I quote that she went to a sorority party which was not true that was a lie but keep going he he didn't just say a sorority party he said her sorority party meaning not only did he lie on her but he called her a Zeta I'm just saying but am not I am a GDI as you all call it so I'm going to I'm being a little petty but but I know you are but but get me but but but the question is in seriousness um again as somebody who cares about pal I know you care about pal I've been with you in Palestine about tell people I've been in Palestine with you oh I'm sorry we were both there at the same time allegedly I know you were there and I was there I heard you were there they said it was a black person I assumed it was you we're gonna fight when see maybe talking about [Laughter] they no you did not Tiffany had I just heard there was a Tiffany she went to Israel and she was a Jewish woman and you gonna sit here and confuse Tiffany Dina Lofton for tiffan adish and for the record my hair was like this first but you gonna throw me under the bus like that Mark you under the bus look the point is talk to me about talk to me about response Palestine talk to me about her response on Palestine no talk to you about her response on Palestine first of all let me say this um I I want to also acknowledge and Deontay I think you're gonna love this ready KLA Harris lied tonight too she said that on October 7th okay that Hamas which is a terrorist organization which is also a lie raped people and there was sexual violence on October 17 which is not true that has been debunked multiple times so she also lied I thought you was going to give me a smile for that but you didn't okay keep it going okay well I here we go so um I I I want to I want to name mark that you are absolutely correct and it has this is not new information okay the Democratic party we saw this at the DNC has been upholding how much they love Israel when they allowed um um folks from the Jewish Community to come on the stage of the DNC and speak and talk about the loss in their family but prevent and stop and ignore Palestinian activists and Palestinian people who were outside demanding that they get a chance to speak on the stage and address um the entire party in in unity In fairness in in an opportunity to help unite the party which I completely disagreed with I know you're saying but Tiffany because I can read your list but I can't hear you because they muted you but um thank you Gia and and uh they didn't allow them to do that and um I think that that was a huge huge mistake in the party's strategy to help unify what this election is supposed to be doing if kala Harris which she just said is a president or going to be a president for all people then that includes Palestinian people um and she did not do a good job of answering that question she's never done a good job in my opinion of answering that question but again like I said she is not a radical president she is not somebody who's going to fight for the liberation of Palestinians the the moderators did such a really great job of asking the question by naming and saying 40,000 Palestinians have been murdered since October 7th what are you'all going to do about it to stop it and she did not answer the question mark I hate to say it but she didn't she did not answer the question about what she was going to do differently what she did say was Israel has the right to defend itself and we have to come to a two-state solution which are the safest talking points that she can give because um I mean this is a different segment and I won't spend a lot of time here I don't think that she believes she has to win the Palestinian um movement's vote I don't think she believes that I don't think the party believes that I think I think that is the calculation I think that was a calculation okay that's what I'm saying I think that's the calculation I also would say that they think that they're going to get the majority of their dollars in funding and financial support from um Jewish folks there have been two really phenomenal candidates who have run for reelection who have lost their election because of the Palestinian issue because they've been out fundraised there have been people who have been kicked off the internet fired from their job people who have been um um uh rejected from being able to form at State perform at stadium because they have supported Palestine and I think kamla Harris is a black woman or however she wants to identify but I'm just we'll talk about that in a second I think that she is going to say hey I'm not going to touch this issue with a far stick I'm gonna stay at the safe point of supporting Israel so they can defend themselves um and I I do think unfortunately and this is a long longer conversation internally for organizers and activists and leaders to continue to have because we've had this conversation which is how do we move our strategy so that they have to respond um and and on the right side of history on this case while they run for president but I will say and Mark I don't know if you would agree with me you've written many of books about this I will say that even in the violence of it all I think that as activists and organizers we should take a little bit of a moment to be proud of how far we have pushed this issue that Palestine was even mentioned on a presidential debate stage I know that sounds real wonky but I am looking at this issue because when I was in college we couldn't even say Palestine so we have we we're coming a long way we need to keep pushing fair enough I want to bring David and Deontay I'm going I I want David to jump back in Deontay I know you have to run in a few minutes so I want to make sure you get a last word in here uh and you can also tell us sort of where you think Donald Trump's campaign is going and what this what this all means uh David uh Jump On In though I know you've heard a lot you digest I don't I don't want him to feel bullied on some uh Zeus Network stuff so let him go and then I'll I'll jump in okay Dante uh talk talk to talk to me about this sort of outcome you said to me uh you didn't think either person won and not to take it to the schoolyard but when I where I grew up in school even in the hood like if if you got into a fight and somebody said to you who won if you said it was a tie probably mean you lost um I ain't never told somebody was a tie if I won um or if it was close uh people are going to hear your analysis of trump uh surrogate and say if if the Trump people are saying it was a tie when they went in thinking they were going to mop the floor to use their language with kamla Harris is that a victory for KLA Harris so when I look at debates I think about not whether the PE two people debate especially political debates people that have debated have won or lost I look at that the American people win and oh come on don't give me the talking point no no it's not sure you for Donald Trump because he wouldn't even say that no it's it's not a talking point this is just how it look the American people and and did they get what they that's the that's the purpose of a debate is did the people get what they needed from it did the voters get what they needed from it that will give them the Insight on who they should vote for that's how look at a debate now or who they shouldn't vote for which is they who they should should vote for now whether that is the Republican answer or not the Republic answer or moderate answer that's just my answer and I can't change it is that that's how I look at the Bates I've always looked that debates whether it's two Republicans going against each other two Democrats going each other or Republican and Democrat is did the people get what they needed from it that's just my answer and if you walked away from this debate feeling like Donald Trump didn't give the American people what they wanted because you already went in thinking KLA wouldn't I would imagine if you're a trump person you probably would have go in sooning she can't uh how disappointed are you that Donald Trump didn't give the American people what they needed I'm not disappointed I just think that we're so far up to we're so close to election day that everyone has made their decision already but the but the the data doesn't show that the polls don't show that so many people are still and the streets don't say that either I'm in the streets organizing people and the students and Young Folks they have not made their decision so that's not true I guess let me ask a question do you think that I as a black s of loving man U should I have the same right to marriage protections as you do yes are you talking no I'm not talking to you Tiffany I'm talking to I yes I know I'm not talking to you I'm talking I'm talking to him you know who I'm talking to I'm not I'm I'm not gonna debate get into that conversation it's not a debate I do I do I do have I do have another interview I have to go to I really do have nothing with that I'm already the answer is no five minutes over so go so go thank you thank you for joining us everybody answer go that was that was that was that was deont so let me just name my frustration and I'm goingon to say this to everybody on record don't invite me to have these these polite conversations with who are grifters who don't give a about black people don't do it don't do it I'm not the one don't do it for everybody involved don't he answered my question and it was explicit at the end but it was implicit all the way through I go back to here's my frustration I want to make it explicit for folks who are not sure why I got this smoke that that Tiffany name she had when we started this conversation what I know as a black person who lived under the Trump Administration is I don't want that trauma I don't want the trauma I experienced it I'm I'm in therapy still to this day reconciling it and I don't want to deal with it I don't want to ask whether or not my fiance and I a man who I love who anchors me who allows me to show up and exist on purpose can exist safely I don't want to have these conversations that Radical Republicans feel are just policy fodder this is actually my life this is actually my life and so in a world where I principal position I get it we got to push those are the three of us are radical by definition we talked about this earlier there a different Progressive is not a radical they're not synonyms words matter this is why Tony Morrison helped us to appreciate the importance of words they get on to things into us the three of us are radical we believe that all of us should be free but that believes that I don't get to take up oxygen in the way that I exist and we can't have a conversation about that that's energy for Trump and everybody who is associated with magga onlys is this my only issue is this and I will I will I will stop and I will I will practice deference in this moment we we as a a group of principal radical people do not have the same energy for that party we don't have the same demands if he doesn't say this about Gaza I won't vote for him we only have the energy for our vice president and it incenses me it is white supremacist in the worst forms of its manifestation that we are critical she don't say this about Gaza if she don't do this about this if she don't but also not appreciating if she flips on this position she's gonna be offered up as vulnerable to people that say politicians can't do that in a world where she's also not a a white man she's a biracial woman who is dealing with all that comes with white Supremacy so I'm saying to everybody you all know how I'm coming and how I enter the arena I want all of us to get free and what I know is I don't agree with KLA Harris on every position I work for Barack Hussein Obama and Michelle Leon Robinson Obama I don't agree with every position that they took that's not where I am but if y'all want to label me whatever you can label me that I'm about black people getting free and thriving and what I know with every F of my being is I can debate and discuss this with uh KLA Harris a Madam vice president Harris Administration and Trump wants me dead and so to that grifter that conservative that you in your principal positions period full stop don't invite me to have conversations with these grifters again Mark I love you but I will not do it so so so so I don't know if he's a grifter or not let me say that first he could just be wrong just said when I asked him a direct question he didn't want to debate it wasn't a debate it was a yes or no question no he definitely avoided that he definitely your question Heely he could said black person a black person do you believe that I should have entitlement to the same rights that you vociferously defend otherwise why you're Republican but if if you can't if you can't answer that question for me I know where you stand we don't I definitely know we don't have to discuss it I mean me and Mark answered the question you wasn't even talking to us so I guess the way I'm thinking about it there might be another way to think about what you're talking about David not From deon's perspective right Deontay represents a party that does not want us to get free whoever whatever we is right any we that I'm a part of any we that anybody on this call is a part of they ain't trying to get free whether it's women whether it's whether it's black folk whether it's queer folk whether it's cap it don't matter like you don't want disabilities was named in the chat earlier y they don't want none of them free right not not any substance there's no commitment to it but as somebody in in the chat said you know there's also a way that radical we're talking about radical and radical transformation getting to the root of this changing the way systems operate changing the systems themselves no mainstream corporate political candidate is going to do that um and I think maybe the reason why we don't apply the same pressure to Trump as we do KLA Harris is because we don't have an expectation from of Donald Trump right we I I know Donald Trump Ain't Gonna Get Us free but too often when we have an option of a radical candidate and a status qu liberal candidate the liberal candidate is positioned to us as the only as the only logical a reasonable path that we can get free and they sometimes overstate or it's overstated for them what they're going to do for us so then so the reason why I want to know what she stands on Gaza is because I want the genocide to end I know Trump won't end it but but it seems like kamla won't either and so if I get to ask the right question six months ago or a year ago or two years ago maybe we don't have KLA maybe we have somebody else all of that is right but here's what I struggle with which is in this moment literally in this moment where we watch apack out Cory bu Jamal Bowman before that the one of the first two black queer candidates who was in the House of Representatives name name name name a inv viable candidate who was taking that position who was still in office I'll wait I would you say that about gay marriage what what what I say what about gay marriage if if you were if if 10 years ago you were pushing for the there was a moment here's here's I will I will play theame I will jump in I will jump in the double dutch R to let me just name audence he my question years ago different 10 years ago it's different 10 years listen to the question because the a even if you know what I'm gonna say the audience doesn't right what I'm saying is that there was a moment where supporting G marriage or marriage equality was a was a was a loser nobody had ever run for office on that position and won and if someone had said at that moment we can't pick a that's that issue no one has a good position on that and win so we can't that is off the table as a as a reasonable Fair issue I think you would have said we got to start somewhere so I'm saying why can't we take that same energy to guys I don't here's the thing um I want to meet in the middle which is where Med Diva where where Meda left us which is God's that South Africa so again we we all we we are the same people on this issue but what I know is KLA Harris is in a very different position than Donald Trump so what I don't begrudging as people who are saying let's push her as much as we can but in this moment what I ask myself as a rational critical thinking being is will I actually know where she is as a person versus how she's navigating this political system that she's in those are two very separate things and what I what I then backed myself into again critical thinking the tried to the tried it earlier I know he's watching although he said he had to go but what I think about as a student of history is name a leader of a a country that has taking this radical position who's in office now it doesn't exist wait and I also want to ask the question for to brainstorm and this is for the listeners too um I have been meditating on this for a minute we have a a biracial we have a black woman running for president um which is unprecedented In This Moment against a rapist narcissist criminal liar all the things while she is also currently working for Joe Biden who has said out loud publicly that he is a Zionist and that he is a capitalist and he will not change his position on that and I wonder and this is this is you know I don't know if we'll ever know but I I wonder how much to your point David about her personally versus her wedding for president how much of what she gave us tonight is being um um um limited by not only her I'm Mark I'm asking the question I'm think this is my thinking face not my disagree okay by by her being a black woman running currently as the vice president working for a white capitalist Zionist while also trying to keep the Democratic party happy which is a bunch of white people who didn't want to see in the first place at the same time who didn't want to see Jo Biden the same place no no no no no that is not me excusing her for her answers tonight because I am unapologetically right now and yesterday free Palestine period full stop right three here's the thing I don't speak Arabic like Mark but I have been three times and I've L A delegation there myself so I so and I've seen it for myself the violence Mark more and Mark more than both of us and me less than you but all of us understand again the principle of medba if palestine's not free South Africa can't be free and anybody who knows me knows that my my value is all of us need to get free and so my question then is I don't think that she can win I don't think that she can win shout out to HR I don't think that she can even win I don't even think she can be a candidate in this moment if she comes out tries to be any more radical or even tries to pretend like she is meeting with radical people because of who she works for currently and because of the party that she serves but again but again but again but this is whates me this people hold on David hold on people who are people who are radical in this movement whether it's the three of us or whether it's our friends or whether it's people in organizing spaces that are literally putting their lives on the line to push for this election to be more than what it has ever been in the past and for us to have a stronger and wider and bigger and deeper agenda those people that I could that I have a list of names but I don't want to miss anybody so I won't waste time it is for us to is for us to say seriously right can we win a radical movement in Pennsylvania in Arizona in Michigan in Florida in these rural counties I just drove from Atlanta to Los Angeles and the entire route I saw Donald Trump signs right those folks are not talking about us they're not talking about Palestine they're not talking about abortion they're not talking about student loan debt and so when you talk about this calculation Mark I bring it you know I'm bringing it back to that moment because I don't even think that she has the flexibility and the space to be the president that she could be or that she might want to be considering all of those factors I'm think here's what I would say to that and then David jump back on it I'm o I agree with your analysis that the candidate that I would or El my person will not win a general election right now 2024 mine neither a person with KLA Harris's policy positions or Barack Obama's or Joe Biden's policy positions when they won would not have won 30 years prior Jesse Jackson's policy positions in 84 and 88 wouldn't win now right even though even though he led the way my point being I am not I don't have any Illusions about what a winning policy agenda can look like what I don't want to do though we did this with Obama too is assign to kamla Harris a kind of radical possibility in her politics in another let me put it differently I don't want to make AUM I don't want to make assumptions about her politics or be overly generous with what her politics can be against all evidence to the contct I no I'm not asking you to do that what I am asking you to do to have an imagination about what we can do to push her I just want to believe that maybe there's a way that we can have a meeting throughout the rest of her candidacy right so you we were saying the same thing I'm not trying to create her to be somebody that we don't think she is hasn't presented to us but to say that there is somebody maybe that we might be able to push and that there is room for us in our politics to be at the end of that goal post and not be where she's at we gota move I like the idea I like the idea I like the idea of being able to say I want to choose my enemy I want to choose my opponent right I want to choose that's what it's been this whole time right and so i' rather if I'm at a war on the or grassroot struggle let use the word struggle if in a political struggle I'd rather be struggling to get KLA Harris to do something than to struggle to get Donald Trump to do something I'm with you at the end of the day I am I understand that philosophy I understand that theory all I'm saying is is that I don't want people to have unrealistic expectations about what they're getting right KLA Harris is not taking an apack talking point simply because Joe Biden has them or and I know you're not saying this or because that's the position of the mainstream I've known K Harris 20 years I met K Harris 20 I met K Harris 26 2006 so 8 18 years ago KLA Harris supports Israel that is her PR that is her sincere position she's not lying to y'all she's not doing it for the vote she's not doing it for the gram she believes this um there's a way that the fact that she believes it means maybe she can be persuaded and change it's not just a kind of ideological ideolog iCal uh stance she's taking for for for votes she believes it so if if she's being sincere then maybe she can be changed I hear you but there's no reason to think that she will be there's no reason to think she that she'll be anti- capitalist there's no no you're not saying she is I'm speaking no no no no no I'm not I'm not sorry I know you're talking to your audience at the moment but I do want to interject really quickly if I can because I want to make sure that it's not uh I know that you're not uh disagreeing with me but here's what I have to say and this is why I said imagination which might sound corny but I don't know about everybody else and what everybody else does I work directly every single day with student leaders across the country I teach I work with State national and local and Statewide student associations presidents and vice presidents of student governments on college campuses across the country to do federal policy legislation and to push candidates on issues that matter to make education a right I'm doing this every single day and when I talk to these young people this conversation right here shuts them down completely they already don't want to be involved in politics as it is so I have to as an organizer have a little bit of imagination to say not that a meeting I saw somebody say that not that a meeting is gonna solve anybody I'm using meeting as a euphemism for a bunch of other things but that we have to do organizing that we have to push kamla Harris that we have to have an agenda that is that is in front of her that is Pastor that she has to continue to Chase and meet so that she can continue to keep not only the youth vote which we have not named is the most important vote I think in this entire conf ation but these young Millennial people who are going to be voting for the very first time and we have to if anybody is listening that is a young person if we say to them KLA Harris can't be moved this is who she's been this is who she gonna be these people are not going to show up to vote and then your question about the calculation is gonna be messed up because now I'm look now I'm trying to stop cussing because Deontay is not here it's gonna be up because people it's gonna be up because people are not gonna want to be involved in the process if we talk about politics just being dead the way that it is who wants to be invol I I for damn sure don't want to be involved I will go be oceanographer and work in an aquarium I do not want to be here if we think that politics can't move so if we can't imagine a free Palestine not in 10 years but by the end of this year in the next two weeks then right now then what are we doing even having this conversation if it's gonna be the way that it is that's all I'm sharing it to your audience no that's a great thing we got we got some questions coming in from YouTube our YouTube Q&A I want to pose those uh to some of you and we also have some super chats coming in I got to answer some are directly uh targeted toward you all for example CCE said I need this answer so I'm tossing my coins in how is genocide a singular issued Dr Zeus I think they're saying Zeus is in like Zeus Zeus Zeus TV uh I'm sure that's for David Johns um um I what I'm I'm not living puber I become Li is that what it's you say genocide is a singular issue David answer the question well In fairness what you said was you can't afford s issue so I'm not answering that question well I I but but but but I it differently because I know what they're asking you there was a moment where you said you can't afford to be a single-issue voter and they're saying right and and they're saying that Gaza is not a single issue because genocide is brought they're saying genocide the genocide in Gaza makes it not a singular issue that's what they're that's what they're saying to you the genocide and Gaza makes it not a singular issue or or or better yet how how is Gaza why do you see Gaza as a singular issue I would imagine what they're saying is is that Gaza Happ Gaza is bound up in like you said in the Meda that it's it's connected not just in an abstract way but there's direct connections between what's happening in Congo or Gaza or Sudan and Israel what's happening in the United States our funding our domestic spending our for that all this stuff is bound up is it really a s a singular issue or why do you see it that way that's what there that's what cc is asking you and she paid $5 for that question so CC I appreciate the question let me be clear that black people don't have the luxury of being being single issue voters and that's not a davidism it's uh I can't think of the member of the the Congressional Black Caucus who wrote a book about this actually being a thing um I want to attribute this to him and what I know is that we don't have this luxury what I know as a black sred loving man is that I can't pick a single issue to hang my hat on which is why I have this energy that I have in this moment and so what I can appreciate is that I'm sure there are people who don't know me how I enter the arena who might have brought their issues to my comment and that landed in the way that I didn't intend for it to and I would hope that you would engage with me so that we could build and you could appreciate the way that I have always shown up because I'm not new to this I'm True to this perod David I'mma ask I'mma ask a provocative question if you're not a single issue voter right and I believe you what do you do if TLA Harris had the exact same policy position she had on every issue except she thinks that being gay is a sin people should not be allowed to be married or have the same rights you do that Mark well here's the thing thankfully here's the thing I appreciate the contrarianism of it all I'm words matter but no in a world where like again Devil's Advocate the devil doesn't need an advocate what I know is that she's not there KLA Harris as the governor of the lieutenant governor as the ad whatever the position was this is when I'm like I need to take a nap attorney general as Attorney General she officiated she offici Top Cop black cop whatever people want to say she officiated samex marriages and then the state of California which I am from overturned those officiation so she was supporting same-sex marriage before it was the law of the land and so while we in this space my point is no no no while we're in this phace here's what I want to say while we're while we're criticizing what Comm could or could not do because what I know is she supports me as a same genic man who is poos to my fiance who allows me to show up in spaces like this but I'm like I should have just dropped and dealt with the consequences of it in 2015 Trump launched a presidential campaign by referring to Mexican immigrants as racist rapist and murderers when Mexico sends as people they're not sending their best they're not sending you they're not sending you they're sending people that have lots of problems they're sending people that bring problems to us they're bringing drugs they're bringing crime they're bringing rapists and some I assume are good people that was 2015 the same year he pitched his candidacy to us as black people by saying that quote what the hell do you have to lose you're living in poverty your your schools are no good your jobs are no good 58% of you of your youth are unemployed what the hell do you have to lose that was 2015 2017 Trump said he attacked the NFL players who were kneeling in support of John Lewis and justice for policing he said they're kneeling or otherwise Solly protesting during the national anthem and then he said in the same year those who protest from Haiti they all have AIDS he lamented people who came to the US from Nigeria and said they'll never go back to their Huts they're Huts because he think we live in Huts this was 2017 let's Advance 2020 Trump said he ordered his aids to revamp racial sensitivity trading at federal agencies so that no longer refers to White Privilege this was the Ronald Deanda Sanchez the failed history teacher turned governor they were they were in collusion they were in cahoots they got that was 2020 the same year he said that SARS K2 what we now know as Corona virus was a Chinese virus he said it was the Kung flu because he's a he's a Master with words so he said the World Health Organization should not invest in that or in in that disease because it was Chinese that we don't have to worry about let's fast forward to 2024 I'mma come close to home mark as a journalist somebody who was studied to shows approved he said during an interview with the National Association of black journalist he's been the best president for the black population since Abraham Lincoln he said he questioned KLA Harris's Heritage in that moment I didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black and now she wants to be known as black so I know is she Indian is she black it was a birtherism that he attacked our President Barack Hussein Obama on I am saying to y'all as people who know me and love me don't invite me into these manufacturing conversations with people who don't care about democracy because the stakes are clear we have Liv through Tiffany I know you gotta run we all gotta run I'm G give I'm GNA give Tiffany the last word what Tiffany you wow okay wow thank you gentlemen well um let me say two things one I wanna I want to uh uh fact check the audience because there were folks who were saying that I I was advocating for lying to young people and students to be involved in the election and I just want to say that I think you misunderstood what I was saying um I I am a person who believes that all of these elections should be and have always been in the hands of the people and that includes young people and that young people should be able to make those decisions um when it comes to not only their agency and who is in charge uh over policy in their communities but and also who gets to be the president and if we tell them that you just have to vote because we only have two options or your ancestors died for you or um uh you don't really have a choice because the Electoral College is going to make the decisions for you or the election has already been determined our young people would not turn out and what I am saying is that all of us have a responsibility to pass the torch because I'm 35 now to pass the torch to young people who want to be involved in the elections and also want to run for candidacy on their own so I just wanted to fact check that um folks were saying that I should lie to people and I would never do that as an organizer the second thing I will say is um we we have uh 56 days left um Mark you have an incredible platform you have always had a space for real conversation um I've never seen it this exciting but but I have SE I've never seen it like this um but I have been watching you on every single platform you have been on so I want to say thank you for having me and David and Deontay even though he's not here um because we were the right people to have this discussion afterwards we need spaces that are safe smart and strategic for us to be able to talk about this election and you have definitely created that space um everybody has to vote and this is not an election that has been determined we have an option of voting along our values and I am a person who is going to encourage everybody here to be um consistent and to be authentic and to be loyal to their values while also keeping Community First keeping themselves and Community First um as we do that there are going to be people who are going to be on all sides of the aisle and people who don't want to vote and Mark David might disagree with me but there are going to be people who don't want to vote and if they don't want to vote don't let them vote because if they don't agree that this is along with them you don't agree with that okay you do agree with that great if there are 55 days left I thought there was 56 but whatever so if there are people who don't want to vote I'm going to time zone eastern you're right I'm in the Eastern I'm in Atlanta um and that that people don't want to vote then then let them go ahead but we always need people who are going to push the pedal stool who are going to push the barometer so that people like us people like kamla Harris not Donald Trump because he's not gonna move can um can have something that they can deter to so that's the audience in the background they turn it up with drinks I did not drink tonight I'm driving home respectfully and you will have a beautiful night and thank you again Mark for having me thank you Tiffany thank you Dave by the way Tiffany has a podcast uh you need to check in it is how we get free you can get it where you get Podcast uh it's dope make sure you check it out David Johns also has a new podcast that I actually an email for today because I hadn't signed up for my my interview time but I did send you email about three hours ago check your email we'll make sure we do that but follow both of them on the socials they both do great work everybody hang here I'm gonna talk I want to drop a few a few thoughts uh in in concluding seconds but David uh Tiffany thank you so much for joining me what a spirited and surprisingly spicy uh conversation we ended up having I love y'all all of y'all uh prince princess I made your job a little difficult today uh as I always do but thank you for hanging in there with us too uh David Tiffany thank y'all for rocking with us um there's a couple YouTube questions I wanted to get at um just to make sure that I I answered it and and some of the super chats we posted I'll see if I can quickly answer a couple of them uh one of the questions from YouTube was Mark as an internationalist how can you vote for for for kamla Harris the answer to that question is not an easy one um to be honest um the answer is easy the the decision isn't um as an internationalist I believe that any vision of Freedom that I have is bound up in the liberation of people of oppressed people around the globe and I believe that any analysis of our oppression within a particular space like the United States uh is in is in is inseparably linked to uh an analysis of global suffering other words I can't talk about white supremacy in United States and not understand what's happening in South Africa or what's happening in Israel or what's happening in Ukraine I can't disconnect these things and so my freedom dream my Liberation is anchored by a very sober and practical analysis um at the core of it is an understanding about what voting does in in in the American Democratic context my vote particularly in the presidential election is not intended to be nor could it be uh an articulation of my political aspiration one to one in other words me choosing KLA Harris doesn't mean that kamla Harris's values reflect the world I want to see me choosing Donald Trump doesn't mean that me choosing Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton or Jill Steiner or or or Claudia De La Cruz or anybody um it's always part of a strategy voting is a tactic it's not the overall strategy it's a tactic voting is not a reflection of my personal philosophical values it's it's an expression of them of those values um what's the world I want to see what's the best outcome that we can get and how do we get there if I vote in this particular election for a third party candidate that's not a bad choice that's not a wrong choice but I have to have a a good faith commitment that the third party choice that I'm making will either short-term or longterm lead to the kind of world that I want to see for most much of my life I have voted for the Third Party candidate because I believe that choosing the Third Party candidate will ultimately yield an outcome that is in the interest of our Liberation what that means in terms of green party voting and I've been a green party member for two decades is I believe that even though the green party won't win a particular election we will build momentum we will build the party we will expand our agenda we will win local and Statewide elections and we will build up a power structure so that we can eventually take over our ideological neighbor our closest ideological neighbor which would be the Democrats not the Republicans so that we can ultimately change American politics and change American society and Global Society speaking in internationalist terms I've been increasingly less confident in the way the third parties have operated so it's a pragmatic Choice I'm making hey I don't think we're doing a good enough job doing the work of a third party to believe that my vote in the short term or the loss we would take in the short term is justified by the victory in the long term I'm not sure we're positioned well for the long-term Victory with that choice also different political matchups and different political contexts demand different results right now if Donald Trump were to be president again it's not just what he would do over the next four years let's say he he chooses two more Supreme Court K uh two two two more Supreme Court appointees let's say that Donald Trump uh makes a decision um other decisions at the federal just the judicial appointment level at the federal level um it's the circuit level Etc that changed the complexion of American uh law or maybe a lifetime or two lifetimes two generations if that happens the Grassroots struggle the radical work that we have to do outside the Electoral Arena outside the H of Congress is that much harder sometimes it makes sense sometimes you have to weaken the Democratic party show them that that our votes can't be taken for granted and drag them to the left tactically I'm just not sure that this is the answer people point to the genocide in Gaza does kamla Harris show complicity with the genocide and God yes does Donald Trump show complicity yes so if I'm if if if if people are holding the genocide card up and saying there's a genocide voting for Donald Trump will result in more Palestinians deading da than voting for k Harris that's a fact I believe and so yeah I want to stop the genocide and no I don't think K Harris is want to stop the genocide I don't think any of them are going to stop the genocide I don't think any of them are going to stop the genocide but if we're just speaking raw numbers I think Donald Trump makes the genocide worse K harrris and they both are not good on this issue um I agree with David we can't be single issue voters I think where David is wrong or I disagree with him and I think I think I is that I think we all have issues that if a person took that position we would say no that's why I ask him about the the lgbtq issue but I would ask the same thing to a Palestinian I guarantee you that if KLA Harris had the right position on Palestine and was calling for a free Palestine from The River To The Sea and was going toop all weapons to Israel if if if they were going to do all of that I guarantee you they would vote for KLA Harris even if she had a terrible position on Ukraine and Congo and gay marriage and reparations and everything else we all are making choices um to me the question is what's the most principal choice and what's the most strategically Wise Choice um that's that that's the answer you know and I would never tell a Palestinian or anyone else that they have to vote for kamla Harris and after tonight where she misrepresented the sexual assaults that happened on October 7th after she basically said she's never going to stop giving Israel an open Che a blank check and an inless weapons purse can't I can't make somebody V for kamla Harris I can't demand that um but I also understand somebody saying that that's not the only issue that they can that they that they can think about um so it's and that's why the vote your conscience answer isn't just a platitude it's a it's a very very very um difficult decision to make and we all got to make it but as an internationalist our Collective Global Liberation demands that we make choices that are strategically and tactically wise not just ones that look good anyway there's a couple I need one more minute and Princess if you got to run I understand it's late I can just I can land the plane if I have to um because I know it's late but I just want to make sure that I I at least get at some of your super chats here um of the green part does ever become strong out Democratic part how would it be different or it's popular depend on eventually consuming that the existing Democratic part Christian that depends I mean there's there's an there's a very real reason to believe that if if the green party gains momentum we can give people permission to believe and to know that we can have a world without prisons that we can have a world without a military industrial complex that we can have a world without the oppression of Palestinians that we can reimagine the distribution of wealth in this country that it doesn't just have to become Democratic Party by another name but that it can actually become something far more radical far more Visionary far more beautiful Glo Vader said please invite CLA to your show she has an invitation we'll reinvite her but I just said to my team actually earlier today we got to try and get her on in the next week or so so I'm going to do everything I can to get Claudia de Cruz on who of course represents uh Socialist Party um we we I posted this before um I think this has been articulated uh of course CC did this what would make the debate the world according to G said what would make the debates more exciting NFL rest throwing penalty Flags every time either one told a li didn't answer a question directly they start with 100 the duck five Points each flag look I tell you something they definitely interrupted each other a lot they definitely avoided answers um the LIE is the easy part sometimes to catch but for me it's more like okay Comm Harris I need you to answer this question about your ideological positions changing like give me a direct answer Donald Trump I need you to answer what you're going to do on this abortion Bill Etc like answer it directly and I almost want to see them just keep pressing until the person answers the question that's what frustrates me the most um there was some other super chats I seem to have lost them I'm going take that as a sign from the good Lord uh to wrap this thing up to land This Plane but family I want to thank you all for watching tonight it was ball a time was had and I know we got some interesting clips that we go to show because this thing was wild um thank you for watching um sincerely thank you um thank you for watching um it's been an absolute pleasure we'll be back tomorrow night with more uh it is uh the god update is uh new episodes uh of night school it be new episode tomorrow night at 9:00 pm there will also be other content floating to the channel tomorrow so I really appreciate y'all for watching if you haven't already hit the like button and hit the Subscribe button if you are on Twitter right now or X whatever Eli wants to call it come over to YouTube and hit that like button hit that subscribe button also family hit the join button I need everybody uh who's over here to hit the join button if you're so inclined hit the join button and become a financial member of the channel uh if you can't make a monthly commitment family I have a big ask for you putting together a debate night special like this is no small task I want to thank uh my team especially Princess uh along with uh Jess and Cecilia for making this happen uh and Princess double thank you for for being behind the wheels tonight uh for this entire debate um as if y'all notice it moves a lot um a lot smoother when Princess is here than when my dumb behind is doing it but staff cost money y'all footage cost money y'all editing cost money Studios cost money we're doing this Grassroots media thing and we believe in it we 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