Talking The Guess Who & B.T.O w/ Robert Lawson

hey folks welcome to a very special episode of the Distortion Den I'm Dee and guess who's back my good pal Mr Robert Lawson hey Rob how's it going it's good de good to see you again yeah you bet and um now before we get into our main topic which is of course the guest who I wanted to talk to Robert and uh he can let everybody know where he can get where where you guys can all get his three fantastic books and he can tell us currently what he's working on Robert so the three books uh well the Nazareth book is now out of print oh okay so if anyone's interested in copies of that I still have a few uh I think I'm actually down to like my last dozen or maybe even less so anyone can contact me directly for that I can send out a hard cover Nazareth book MH uh the Cheap Trick and the Guess Who books are still aail aailable on Amazon and uh Indigo books can order it for you I think they're a little pricier Barnes and Nobles in the states anywhere really those books are available everywhere and I do have copies of those ones too if uh if people want sign copies sure so uh so all three books are are still available the Nazareth will run out at some point over the next few months and then that'll be it for that one I don't think I'm going to order anymore and then my new book which I I've just finished it's kind of going back and forth uh between a few different proof readers is about little Steven VanZant nice and his musical career so that's been I've been working on that one for quite a while and um hope to have it done uh or all the proof reading done maybe I don't know end of January or depends how fast these guys are um it's like I have one guy who who has gone through the whole book and found some issues so we fix those and then I have proof reader number two and he's about halfway through the book and he finds tons of stuff that the first guy missed and then I just and then I just signed up proof reader number three and he doesn't find too much but he finds a couple things in every chapter and sometimes it's it's just real dumb stuff but it's stuff that I'm I really want to us to catch so so that'll be out at some point in 2024 I don't know if it' be like Midsummer it's kind of hard to say at this point but uh but it's humming along I still have to talk to Stephen um he has agreed to be interviewed for it so once I do that then we're then we're completely done so it's basically um a legit book I mean you're you're get if you're talking to the man himself little Stephen he's obviously okay and you're probably going to do now you're probably doing this book the same way you've done your other ones right with the CDs the reissues the singles the da da da you're not it's not like the little Stevie uh VanZant biography that he put out a year or two ago this is something totally different which I think people should know that yeah it's definitely not uh just his bio like it's like a musical biography really so each chapter is a different album or a different kind of period of his musical life and I I do have a chapter about Sopranos um I don't I don't know if you could see when you mentioned his autobiography at the top of that shelf right there okay there you go that's like nine or 10 different copies of his autobiography that I have what man like different languages oh that's awesome that's awesome well that's got to be pretty exciting that you're going to be uh lining up to chat with him I mean that's that's a pretty huge score when he's basically endorsing what you're doing which is nice yeah I I pitched it to him last uh in April uh I was with him for a little bit and uh he signed up immediately he he got involved right away so we'll see hopefully you know hopefully it still happens hopefully he's still okay with it um his wife uh has participated a little bit and and I've interviewed uh I think it's 29 or 30 either current or ex-band members which is way more than I've ever talked to for any of my books like way way more um you know usually it's like four or or less so uh so I've got a lot of people on board with this uh project well that's awesome uh can I just throw out a name that see if uh perhaps you he was one of the 29 would one of the Michael Monroe uh no well no he he's not I thought about reaching out to him because I actually have a specific question for him that I had asked Stephen on Twitter and Stephen didn't didn't know the answer so uh so I might try that maybe he'll be number 31 well 31 there we go well that's awesome well hey everybody so um and as the socials go you can find Robert on Facebook and Instagram anywhere else uh I'm not that active on Twitter anymore but I still kind of pop in once in a while and and see what's going on uh Stephen himself is pretty active on Twitter so I have to be on there just to to see what he's tweeting but yeah mostly Facebook and Instagram is the the best way to get a hold of me for sure and I'll leave it folks I'll leave it up a little right up in the bottom and you know what I always say when I get guys like Robert on uh Sean Kelly Bren Jensen you know what we got to support our local boys you know local Canadian boys because these guys are independent they're doing it basically on their dime so let's let's all help them out man and support them and hit them up and get the books I got so far all three of Rob's books as you could tell they're all fantastic reads uh my personal favorite was the first one I ever got still competition and if you go back a few months ago me and Rob did a deep dive into um the live at the uh whiskey um CD release which uh did very well for us and I think a lot of people dug it so definitely check out Rob's books so now guess who now Robert you're the historian with the guess who I mean you wrote the book Whitfield The Empire um I guess the question is I mean I read the Rolling Stone article and a few other articles and whatnot why now for the lawsuit yeah well it's uh you know to be a little delicate I I feel like Burton Cummings didn't always have the the team behind him who thought that this was a priority to address um and that's just you know I can't go into too too too much more details about that uh but now he does so he finally has some some people who are saying look this isn't right it's been going on for too long it's been allowed to continue for way too long and we're finally going to get it sorted um should it have happened 20 years ago or something absolutely but again people people didn't want want to look into it or it wasn't a priority for people at that point it is the a priority for his people now so yeah and that's the thing because there's all these other versions of the guest who floating around I mean once you kind of brought up the topic on uh Facebook I started doing a bit of Deep dive and yeah you're right when they're advertising there's another version of the GU who in the states that when they're advertising their pictures for their shows it's not Bachman or Cummings it's these other guys that are younger than them and I guess it's Gary Peterson on the drums yeah so so the Guess Who uh The Guess Who currently is a bunch of relatively young guys except for Gary Peterson who is the original drummer and uh they tour as the Guess Who and um uh you know none of them are on any of the Classic Albums except for Gary right and the real the real issue with of the lawsuit it's not so much that these guys own the name the Guess Who uh because they do so legally they have that on their side so yeah the issue is that they promote themselves as the like original guess who so uh I've seen tons of ads I've seen uh tons of um like even video commercials for this current version of the guasu and uh they'll either use a classic guess who song with Burton singing and with the original band playing or even a little clip of the original gu who maybe from the reunion era in 2000 2001 but it it won't be those guys that you're going to see if you go to see the guu Bur Cummings will not be there Randy Bachman will not be there Donnie McDougall Bill Wallace all these guys and actually there's a good chance that Gary Peterson won't be there he missed a whole bunch of shows in 2022 um I don't know exactly why i' I've never looked into it and I I never asked Gary I haven't talked to him in in quite a bit um but he missed a whole bunch of shows so that means if you went to see the guu in 20122 chances were good that you would not see any original members so if you hear a commercial on the radio or somewhere online and you hear Burton's voice and ry's guitar and all that tonight the Guess Who you know you'd be okay to assume that those guys are going to be there so it's more the misrepresentation that the Guess Who management and the Guess Who band I mean they have to know this has been going on for years and they started using it even more kind of during the pandemic because once things started opening up again they started doing some cruises and they always play a lot of casinos and state fairs uh in the US and they use the original Guess Who images and sounds to promote their shows so that that's the issue it's this misrepresentation of who people are going to see and I see it online all the time that people will post uh how excited they are that they're going to see the guest who tonight can't wait to see you Bert wow yeah I mean that's like it's almost uh getting duped so to speak I mean and shows aren't cheap now especially after you said like with coid shutting down opening up everything seems to have gone prices gone up and yeah so if you're going to see Bachmann play the Solo in American woman and Burton slam the cowbell in American woman you're not getting those two dudes there so yeah it's kind of yeah it's kind of sticky and I get it everybody needs to make a living but should be a little more honesty in play but Money Talks well well Bob says money doesn't talk it swears um but the but the thing is if they if they promoted themselves as some sort of a Guess Who tribute act or you know the Guess Who Show featuring Gary Peterson that would be fine but they're actually saying that they are the Guess Who who did those classic albums recorded share the land and soong bantine and live at the Paramount and all the albums that guess who fans know and have loved for years they're saying that they're those guys um and and that's that's the issue it's not that they can't tour and play Guess Who songs they could do whatever they want right but you can't say that you're the Guess Who who did all that work in the 60s and 70s um on social media lately Burton's been really coming out swinging um there was a picture from a meet and greet that the Guess Who did I don't know if it was a few months ago or something uh Gary Peterson was not there and there's a couple of women probably in their 60s or so they I'm sure they're lovely nice people but one of them is holding the road food album okay which is you know like one of my favorite Guess Who albums none of the guys in that picture are on that album wow so I don't know if she asked them to get it signed um you know Burton has seen he uh I know it's happened a couple of times where someone has given him a Guess Who album to sign and some of these current guys have already signed the records o so so that that's really the issue it's not just so much like oh why you know why why does he care if they're called to guess who you know he's got a solo career and all that it's not about that it's more about the misrepresentation to the fans and a lot of fans do not know when they go to a guess who show that they're not seeing actually anybody or at best it's just Gary the drummer who was on any of the classic Guess Who albums that's the issue right and you know what uh case in point I'm I know early next year there's uh The Guess Who is coming to Thunder Bay but they're calling themselves The Guess Who alumni and it features good pal garl from Cony hatch and oh okay the ad specifically says has Carl's picture and a picture of the guys that are in this band The Guess Who alumni like they already threw it out there there's you know you can read the ad and already know that there's no Bachman there's no coming so that to me is like way more legit like they're you know what if you're going to pay 60 bucks you know what your 60 bucks is going towards well absolutely and I and I've seen Carl you know I I know Carl and uh I've seen his show um so what Carl does yeah it's he he usually calls it Carl Dixon sings The Guess Who right so he was in The Guess Who for a very short period of time um and so he has Bill Wallis who is the band second basis but he is from the original era he's on a lot of the Original Classic Albums uh after Bachman left um and then there's a there's a guy named Lori who was also like in a later version of The Guess Who and stuff um but that's a fun show I I saw them like a year maybe just before the pandemic and uh yeah it's an all guess who uh show and Bill Wallace will tell some stories about recording different songs and he even sings lead vocals Bill's always had a great voice and he used to sing lead vocals on a bunch of Guess Who albums so uh so he does he does a few songs and and and it's completely legit it's a lot of fun it's uh it's great I I really hope that they come back around this area uh so I can see them again because um I think I was still writing the book when I went to see the show and actually that was the first time I met Bill uh in person and now we you know we've known each other for a few years um that's totally legit that's why if they did if the Guess Who the guys who have the name to Guess Who if they did something like that there'd be no issues whatsoever if you say you know you know like I'm I'm just riffing off the top of my head but yeah the Guess Who show or the Guess Who tribute featuring original drummer Gary Peterson when Gary can make it um that would be no issue whatsoever but you're not going to see the Carl Dixon show promoted with you know the original song Share the land or rain dance or any of those being sung by Burton that's that's where the issue so why is it that Carl can get it right and that these guys in the so-called guess who consistently cannot get it it right you know if it if it only if it only happened once or twice you could say well the promoters you know they were a little sketchy or management dropped the ball it's been going on for years and in fact during the pandemic they even stepped it up because if you go to um I don't really use streaming services too much as you can see from my background but but I know that if you go to at least Spotify and you type in the Guess Who there you go that's what I'm talking about so you're seeing the relatively current group and then underneath it's going to be the American woman album and share the land and artificial flavors and or artificial Paradise all the great great Guess Who albums and it makes it look like those are the guys who recorded those records so that was something they started doing during the pandemic they they changed the image for a lot of the accounts and I think Apple music and uh and some of the other stream I think they're all the same I think they all have like that image or a current image which makes it seem like those guys recorded those albums yeah that's a screenshot from my uh Apple music yeah okay right there you go so I I I even checked it again yesterday that Spotify still has that image and there you go Apple music is using it too which it it is it's deceiving yeah totally and you know like going talking about the pitcher thing going a little off topic here the the band vandenbberg with Adrien Vandenberg same thing you go to the Vandenberg page because he has some albums out under his name it's a picture the picture of the band is when he was in Whit snake so nothing to do with but the thing so I always wonder if oh is this is just an Apple guy at Apple not knowing anything about music and just throwing a picture down just because of you know he uh Google searched the band or the guy's name and says oh yeah good enough we'll just move it into here and da da da da but like you said for a band on the Guess Who level it's a little more misleading when you see those guys you think wow those guys wrote These Eyes right and undone no they probably weren't even born or if they were born they're pretty damn young yeah I you know I've seen live Clips too where they'll you know say things you know here here here's one from the American woman album where here's one from and you know they're not coming out and saying that they wrote it or that they but they are kind of implying it yeah that it's it's their records and they are not their records those albums are not the result of those guys no no and that's yeah and that that just kind of but like you said like you have other people maybe they're paying the VIP packages showing up with their records to get signed and none of those guys are on that record you know I would I would love to to hear from that woman who's holding the road food album because she looks so happy and she's so excited to be meeting the Guess Who and I would I would really you know I'm real Curious to ask like did do you think that those are the guys on that album do you still think that those are the guys on the album uh because they will sign it even though they're not on it yeah yeah yeah it's kind of a a touchy thing what what do you think um I'm sure you've been following it quite a bit what do you how do you think the feedbacks going like do you think um everybody's on board with Randy and Burton or there the other guys you know the other side of it saying like who cares uh they're doing what they're doing yada yada let it go you guys it's it's kind of old news this could have been done with so done about so many years ago like where do you think is there a divide or is it to you seem one way or the other I I see a lot of support from fans on social media it seems like a lot of uh a lot of guess who and Burton Cummings Randy Bachman fans I don't think they were quite aware of the situation or how bad it was so a lot of them seem to be really alarmed by it and really you know shocked even uh that this is happening um so you know I don't I don't follow every guess who or Winnipeg music U music group on Facebook but of the ones that I'm in I I see a lot of support and there's a little bit of push back which is natural know yeah why why is it taking so long well this is how long it took yeah and you know sorry you talk about the push back I'm gonna pull up do you know uh on Twitter do you know um not you might not probably don't know him personally but Jeremy tager he used to drum for our lady piece no he's I follow him on Facebook and or sorry on Twitter and he commented about the Guess Who and he said um quote maybe you shouldn't have thought you didn't need the Guess Who when you signed yourself out of the company in the 70s it was probably a good 20 years that you wanted nothing to do with the name and that was his his his tweet so there is there's the push back so um teach I don't I don't I don't really know who that person is that doesn't really mean anything because it leaves out the fact yeah actually that's that's nonsense The Guess Who broke up in 1975 so there's four guys in the band at that point they all went their separate ways that's it that's the end and at that point you know there wasn't a of value in like classic rock we didn't kind of have that market yet you know the idea that everyone will be listening to music from 25 30 40 years back that that didn't really happen in 1975 right so in 1978 when Jim kale asked uh Burton and Randy and whoever if it would be okay if he played some gigs as the Guess Who yeah they agreed to it why not there was no there was no foresight of where what that could lead to um and Burton solo career at the time was incredible Randy uh you know Randy had been out of the band for five years by 1975 so by 78 he's got Bachman Turner overdrive going he's got a lot of success as well so them allowing or being cool with Jim kale bringing the Guess Who back I think that's natural you know and it was more of a legit version of The Guess Who because he had Donnie McDougall was one of the last guitar players in the band and he had Kurt wnter who's you know a major force in the in the GU who I would argue he's he's he's a more important figure possibly even than Randy Bachmann uh you know Kurt witer is like a huge Legend in Guess Who history and he's on the first kind of new guess who album that Jim kale put out um an album called guess who's back so there so that's somewhat legit and and they would play shows and they would do new music that they had written on the album and they would do older stuff and Donnie could sing and Donnie at the time he he could sing and and that even looked quite a bit like Burton uh so so that's kind of legit and then by the next album CT winter's not there and then and by the way Gary Peterson is not on these records sure so you know sometimes the guys when they talk about it now like the the current guest who guys they say things that like Gary's always been you know holding the keeping the flame alive and and he's the only one who continued after Burton quit but that's not true Burton did not quit the ban broke up when Kale's group got back together even Peterson wasn't part of that none of the guys in the 1975 lineup are in the 1978 lineup so after that guys just start dropping out until it's just kale and a bunch of you know kind of no-name guys from Winnipeg and then that slowly leads into it being a retro act being kind of a tri rute act and then you know that led us to kind of where we are now where this band's been playing live for decades on the name of The Guess Who but to blame somehow Burton or Randy or anyone in 1978 for kind of being cool with Jim kale going out on the road with a version of The Guess Who that's that's just kind of like that's false I would say that that's not the universal truth there's only one universal truth um that's not the universal truth because you know there's no way to to to know that there could be a hugely successful guu reunion tour in 83 which they did and then an even more successful reunion era from 2000 to 2003 you know you just didn't have that in 78 you know everyone was moving forward you didn't have you know when bands toured they play new music they weren't just doing greatest hit sets and stuff like that so I know you to me you really can't blame anybody in and including Jim kale he didn't know that he'd be able to have a 30-year career uh of playing old guess who songs when he had the IDE in 78 to maybe get back out on the road you know nobody knew what was going to happen so to to blame anybody for any of those decisions including Jim kale in 1978 I think I think is false and that's why I don't think there for me there's no issue in Jim kale putting out guess who's back in 1978 it's not a great record it's not a great guess who record but it's okay and and you got three guess who guys and even the drummer that they got was kind of from a Guess Who adjacent band and he was part of the win pig scene and stuff like that so it's still it's still legit it's it's not quite as good but it's still legit that's far different than you know what they're doing now where they are only playing classic guess who songs I don't know if they play one or two off their new album but they also Market themselves as being the classic guess who that's very different yeah totally I mean uh and plus I mean back in the mid to late 70s everybody was a lot younger than they are now it's like we're Going Back 40 40 plus years right so and it that was a whole different time because even now like even now April L's just touring with just Brian Greenway on guitar and Michael uh sorry miles Goodwin you know the audition the guy to replace him right the voice I mean they they keep going doesn't seem be any issues there but you know I don't even know if they're I'm sure there're still being advertised as April Wine I mean I guess if you got the guy's endorsement I guess that that's how you roll roll um differently um now let's talk a little bit about another band that Bachmann's in that he brought back which is Bachman Turner overdrive now to me before I let you get going with this to me it should just be Bachman overdrive because from the ads I've seen and I don't see any Fred Turner no so fill us in on that one yeah that that you know that that is connected to this to this guess who thing and it and it really makes you wonder kind of ry's place in the Guess Who lawsuit so in addition to not owning the rights of the name the Guess Who Randy also for decades did not own the rights to the name Bachman Turner overdrive wow so how how you're the founder of two of the biggest original Canadian bands and you don't know the name for either of them I don't know Rand R Randy needs better management than and advisers so so for years he didn't own the name bman turn overdrive or BTO uh his his brother the drummer Robbie Bachman who I interviewed for my book a little bit he he he owned the name so for years he's been touring as BTO so uh December I think of 2022 Robbie passed away suddenly and when he did the second thing I probably thought was I wonder if Randy gets the name rights now so sure enough he did he's he's the last surviving brother right so so he finally got the rights to the name BTO so what does he do goes on the road is Bachman turn overdrive there's nobody on that stage except for him from bman turn overdrive it's his son uh who he's been playing with for years and then just a bunch of other guys I'm not sure if they're from ry's solo band or or where he gets these guys from but there's you know Blair Thorton on guitar no um and the big one yeah Fred Turner not involved so the real issue with this case for me is that Randy's telling fans at the shows that you know Fred couldn't be here because he's got some health issues but he'll be joining us on tour as soon as he feels better um I know two different people in Winnipeg who know Fred and who have asked him to his face are you gonna be on this BTO tour and Fred says absolutely not Fred Fred's been retired from music for quite a while um you know he's a bit of an older guy he's enjoying just a mellow life in in Winnipeg apparently I think every I don't know every Tuesday morning or something you can find him at the same coffee shop with some of his buddies and stuff you know he's this older retired guy and he's enjoying that life he doesn't need to get back on the road and he hasn't done it in a long time so you know which is his right that's right but for uh for Randy to to tell the crowds and also you know in as soon as he announced that BTO was back um a lot of the images on the official BTO Facebook group were pictures of Randy and Fred and and even pictures of the original lineup saying yes we're back come and see us on tours you know when we hit your town and it's like out of those four guys Randy's the only guy so he's actually the thing that he's involved in the lawsuit against Jim kale and Gary Peterson's guess who he's actually doing the same thing with Bachman turn over Drive he's making it seem like it's the original group on stage and then he's telling audiences um I have a buddy who went to one of the shows in the states and he he was like texting me from the show saying Randy just said that Fred will be joining the tour you know coming up that's that's that's just a lie I mean maybe it's wishful thinking on ry's part but the word that I have is that Fred has been very clear you know I think he might be getting a little bit of a royalty um because his last name has been used although maybe he's not I don't know I I I kind of don't think Randy pays well um but he's he's doing the same thing so it it's a really weird feeling about him you know if the I don't think the biggest question should be why is Burton pursuing this now after so many years my big bigger question would be like does Randy really feel that strongly that Jim kale and Gary Peterson are doing something wrong because he's doing the same thing with BTO and in a similar fashion you know the Guess Who rarely ever play up here in Canada last year they did like one show somewhere in Quebec but they rarely play If Ever uh you know you're not going to see them anywhere around Manitoba or Ontario and I I don't think that's coincidence uh so in similar fashion the BTO tour dates for 20123 they only did maybe half a dozen shows or something none of them W in Canada right I think for the same reason that you know you might be able to fool a lot of the people in the States because they don't have the face recognition of a lot of other groups um but a fake guess who or a fake BTO it's not going to cut it up here people immediately will be saying you know if the fake guess who comes up here immediately where's Burton Cummings and where's Fred Turner when the fake if the fake BTO had the had the balls to play up here well that's the thing I mean for me as a a music fan um even just to call it Bachman overdrive I mean Randy wrote the tunes man you know taking care of business hey you and stuff but you know there's no denying Fred's contribution I mean listen to Let It Ride I mean got that Gruff vocal that goes against ry's you know smooth vocal and yeah so it's almost like well you called it man I'm not even gonna add to I can't can't do any better but you know I guess it all boils down to m a lot of bands nowadays it's about branding like brand the name so people like you said you throw it out as the Guess Who you throw it out as Bachman turn overdriver he's going to be like yeah and just the Gen the say the general fan who just listens to satellite radio and hears those Tunes but doesn't do a deep dive they're just going to want to hear you know let it ride American woman stayed awake all night you know un like they're not invested as the TR fans so I guess maybe in a way that's where these acts are trying to Target that audience as well I don't know you know I just well well again if if if Randy toured is you know Randy Bachmann's BTO show True no problem no problem but to use Fred's images now here's the thing here's where the BTO thing is worse than the Guess Who uh oh because if you think about it so yeah okay so they're both using the classic images to to sell tickets right so not cool but where the BTO thing is worse is that Randy is specifically telling the audiences Fred will be on tour at some point yeah the Guess Who guys don't say that they they never say you know I don't think they bring up Burton or anybody's name during their shows so actually ry's doing something worse because he's promising he's I mean's lying to a to a huge crowd you know I don't know 5,000 6,000 people whatever yeah Randy will be at a at at Future shows and he also said there was a press release where he said that that himself Randy and his son T and Fred were already writing and recording new music are they really though Fred's in Winnipeg ry's on tour in the states I don't think so you know maybe they made some you know generic plans to like yeah maybe you know maybe we can get together in the future and and do a song but by saying that they're already doing it I've seen fans repeat that like well Randy said they're already you know they're already in the studio they're not they're clearly not in the studio together um you know that might have just been like a very casual chat of like you know yeah you know may maybe we'll do something in the future but ry's out there selling it to people yeah yeah yeah that almost Falls under the not cool category I mean it very much falls under yeah and you know and that's the thing I I think of a lot of it probably maybe due to the fact promoters and ticket sales I mean let's let's look at another band that we're both fans of kiss right they're coming to an end or so they say and you know and I know that if Jean Simmons goes out as a solo band he's not playing Arenas because he's not going to be able to sell 15,000 tickets like if he uses the name kiss right it's like a whole different thing I mean they got the catalog and the public everybody in the public knows who kiss is so you know but people aren't going to go in droves at an arena to see Jee Simmons play Kiss songs they'll go see him as kiss like that's the whole thing I mean even now we get into the whole issue with a band like Foreigner you know cruising around everywhere saying Foreigner and you know they were down to just having Mick Jones and now I don't even know if Mick Jones shows up to play anymore I know forigner was here just after Co stuff was lifted and I didn't buy a ticket because I wasn't going to pay 150 bucks for that show or whatever it was it was it was well over 100 bucks um I just thought well if it's different if it's Lou at the mic and Mick because they came to Thunder Bay back in 83 and ironically did a uh co-headline show with April Wine M and uh it was a fantastic show but they were Foreigner but it was Mick and Lou and to me that's different than Foreigner with five six guys and Mick who might come off the bus to play a few songs with us or chances are I don't even think he was in Thunder Bay for that show but I could be wrong but you know it's just the brand and just general people showing up going yeah I want to hear uh hot blooded and you know cold as ice and da da da and hey that guy sounds like good like the other guy okay but tus die hards we we know the drill but for a lot of people I guess it's all about the brand now it's bands or Brands I guess at least with the Foreigner situation uh Mick Jones yeah he he's he's authorize this to happen so it's not anyone doing it you know wi without and you and I don't know if he plays with them at all anymore I know that a couple years before the pandemic he would only come out I think for you know two or three songs during during a show um so when he's not on stage yet zero original members um my friend Mary is a huge Foreigner fan she follows him around she loves it she has a lot of fun at the shows but she also knows what she's getting right you know like she knows the guys who are in that band now she you know she's seen them enough times that there's no confusion there so that's again the deception and the misrepresentation that's happening in The Guess Who and in the BTO case where the guests who at least through their ads they're saying that Burton's going to be there yeah and in bto's case ry's actually coming right to the microphone and telling people straight out that Fred will be there yeah and and you know that's the thing I think with today's today's prices and all these different versions of bands floating around people need to do their homework I mean if you drop say I don't know what the price is to go see the Guess Who in the states are but if you're like just just say a hundred bucks you're going 100 bucks and you're wanting to hear Randy and you ain't getting Randy you're gonna be pissed you know and I'm sure that there's probably a little certain percentage that that it has happened to oh sure sure i' I've read tons of those stories of of of the guests who announcing that there's a show and some of the fans who are a little more educated calling the venue and saying I need you to confirm with me who's going to there because even if ry's not going to be there there's still other guys like I said you know Randy was fired from The Guess Who in 1970 so there are other lineups with other guys that are legit um you know ever since this lawsuit lawsuit was posted by Rolling Stone I see a lot I see a lot of posts on social media people going if it's not Burton and it's not Randy it's not the Guess Who The Guess Who made great records without Randy they made really really good records without Randy so you know they it it shows that guess who fans are not always super educated about who is in the band at different times um they seem to think that Randy's on the share of the land album that he played on you know guns guns guns and rain dance and all these later great songs that they had you know ry's not on clap for The Wolf Man okay he's yeah yeah and see me and I'm I'm not in depth knowledge with the guest who is nowhere even near you whatsoever and until you just that I thought when I hear clout for the wolf man I think guess who I think Bachman on guitar yeah definitely no definitely not there like there's like 10 or I don't know 12 original Guess Who albums and ry's on like the first four wow you know there's a lot of Records without Randy so every time that I see a post like that saying you know if I see the Guess Who it has to be with Burton and Randy right there that's how the guests who the current guests who are getting away with this that the fans are not super knowledgeable about who's on a lot of those records um you know the song starbaby and dancing fool and sour sweet and all these huge songs those are all after ry's tenure in the band those are all non Bachman songs so they have a whole career after Bachman that's completely legit lot of big hits um great great stuff so you can see how the how the current guess who can kind of get away with this of people not really knowing the difference yeah yeah and you know it'll be interesting to see how this uh $20 million lawsuit uh pays out in the next uh or sorry plays out and maybe pays out in the next little bit as far as the trademark the name and yada yadas so um Robert if anybody has it and they need and I think I need to read this book a little more hardcore and learn my stuff about clap for the wolf match but uh folks pick it up and like I said support local support Robert in his three books and Robert as always uh thanks for hopping on and uh talking music and you're always welcome back to uh the Distortion Den yeah let's do it again soon you bet bud and uh thanks everybody out there watching we hope we uh schooled you in uh rinding trademarks and uh suing so later folks have a good day and we'll talk to you all later later