Trying to make sense of Rutgers' NIL situation

Intro [Music] all right welcome back to the Scarlet faithful podcast I'm Aaron breitman coming to you with a a second episode on Thursday December 21st wanted to address the article that came out today from Keith Sergeant nj.com about the Ruckers nil situation uh first off I just want to say this is you know I Serge is an excellent reporter uh everyone involved in the story it's you know as someone that uh has spoken to a lot of these Disclaimer people over the years and is a longtime uh supporter alumni I grew up to ruter you know I I I don't have any I don't have any angle here I don't have any agenda here I I am just going to give you my honest take on how this situation sounds from the article from what I've been hearing and I think that at the end of the day everyone involved wants Ruckers to be successful and I think that is for me how I look at it in terms of framing everything and the frustrating part of this article is that it's very clearly This is a complex issue there is some type of disconnect Rift lack of alignment that I had really hoped would be there at this point and this isn't you know this episode this is not about pointing fingers this is this is a complex issue there are a lot of to quote the big labasi there's a lot of ins and outs and what have yous here and I am not going to sit up here and pretend that I know them all because I don't so I'm going to give you my uh my I think some what informed take doesn't mean I know everything doesn't mean I'm going to be completely right but I'm reading the the room here so to speak and uh there's a lot of different uh I dont know everything things being communicated in this article and I want to address a lot of it because I think that uh it paints a picture that is I don't think first of all the N everything can always be better everything can always be worse and I think the general idea that ruter is not competing in nil Is Rutgers competing in NIL I think that General concept is not the case is ruter you know in the article it was said that Ruckers isn't competing with Ohio State Michigan you know and it mentioned some other kind of mid-level I mean Nebraska I mean Ruckers is not going to compete with Nebraska and nil they're just not and so I think that there's some hopes and wants that were mixed in with judging where ruers is at right now from an nil perspective my honest take is that there are certain wins that were seen that show that the Ruckers nil situation like I said it's not where everyone wants it to be but I don't think it's a disaster by any means um you know I thought and again I have respect for everyone that was quoted in this article I have respect and and like everyone that is involved in this situation I have a ton of respect for keyth sergeant he has been amazing to me uh over the years in terms of a resource especially when I F first started so you know I I don't know uh you know I I know how articles and get written obviously but you know in terms of the editing process and how the um overall main argument of the art article was you know I think that there were some really good points made I think there were some omissions too that I I would have liked to have seen included so just to start you know the article um it was a four-month investigation by Sarge and it starts with shano talking about uh how he is speaking to donors about the importance of retention this was during the season I believe it was September and the importance of keeping the roster together and how other programs are going to come in and take the best players because they had more nil you know this was also something he echoed last year uh it's it's a it's a Fair concern it's something that is a reality and unfortunately I feel like at a school like Ruckers it's always going to be reality and and for right or wrong and what I feel was omitted in this Players returning article was the fact that in the last two weeks 10 starters have returned 10 fifth year starters have returned and that is a credit I believe in large part to the efforts of the Knights of the ridan collective who is quoted in here uh John uh John Newman Danny breau but there's no mention of that effort being successful so I I just I don't really understand that that to me was kind of right away I was like wait when's that part coming up and it never came so uh that was that was uh significant cautious and chaotic to me um it was written that you know ruter has a uh chaotic cautious and Scattered uh approach to nil so I I I I find cautious and chaotic a little bit contradictory um scattered you know I I I donors arent happy think the big picture takeaways of this is that donors aren't happy the collective is not happy coaches aren't happy right they all want more from an N perspective Hobbs Pat Hobbs the athletic director pretty directly gets the bulk of the BL blame here in the article for um not in their eyes properly leading the charge on nil efforts So to that you know one thing I thought that was curious was in terms of talking Hobbs about how Hobbs was brought in right to clean things up if you remember the state of the Athletics smart when when Hobbs came in it was a mess uh he has cleaned that up Ruckers has a history of scandals and he has for the most part not Scandal free there's been some issues uh no doubt under his watch some avoidable and but I think the idea of there was definitely the sentiment that based on the nca's lack of policing of nil and the actual purpose for it um that ruer should be pushing that envelope more so I think some things to consider you know in New Jersey I mean there it's a public university of course there's red tape I mean Hobs is a lawyer and there's a ton of lawyers that that that are in the decision-making process at Ruckers so you know it was harped on that Ruckers got off to a really slow start with nil well I I think that that yes Slow start they did and I think that that's just the reality of being ruter in New Jersey having the legal processes that they do the laws are more strict uh you have a lot of red tape Ruckers This is not new to anyone uh ever attended or involved or know of Ruckers any way there's more red tap at Ruckers in most places and uh you know just because public schools in the South are doing whatever the hell they want uh I think that's the whole point of why you want regulation right because I think that ruter based on uh the institution based on the state you know is restricted based on certain limitations and and and there is a cautiousness built in that these other schools in the South are not operating with and that is different playing field so you do want regulation for that which Hobbs touches on in the article now let me step back I'm not this is not a defend Hobs case I like Pat Hobs very much I think he's done a tremendous job um at the same time listen you could always do more right I do think one thing another thing that wasn't mentioned was that ruter on the face of it in terms of Legally right things that the the university can do is they do have an nil store for all student athletes sell merchandise they do have an nil Marketplace uh Al which also includes you know like kind of a cameo style um service that you can contact student athletes to make videos and pay them directly that way so above above the line stuff that they're allowed to do they're doing they hired an N manager which is mentioned in the article uh you know hops talks about weekly meetings staff meetings you know addressing nil he says that whenever he meets a businesses that you know he's talking about n Pipe dream opportunities and I I I think that that all that's important um you know I think the idea the the fairy tale that ruter should be at the top of nil because they're close to New York City and all these major corporations are gonna give money to Rucker soon athletes as a pipe dream because you know I think we're seeing that it doesn't matter where you go to school you know it's it's in an online world the the geography is less important you know the Cavender Twins were in Times Square on the billboard on the first day of nil a few years ago they were a Fresno State at the time it didn't matter where they were they had the social following they had the juice and they were on a billboard in Time Square didn't matter what school they went to they went to Fresno they didn't go to a power five school they leveraged that to then go to Miami wisely but um I think that it's always been a little bit of a pipe gam I think that um there certainly is opportunities there you know but but I think from a a broad scale uh it's never going to happen in terms of those ruon athletes aren't going to move the needle for a lot of these big corporations that's no disrespect to anyone that's just fact um but let's go back to something Hobs did say that I I I did not like and uh to me honestly was a little concerning uh in terms of uh what I you know think that could be an issue he wrote about uh so this is quoting Sergeant Hobs wonders whether every College athlete needs to be paid on top of a free college education and if some of them actually want it so that framework is set and then Hobs is quoted loss in all this is the value of the degree he said I put three kids through college and graduate school and if somebody had relieved me of these costs because of their athletic talents that would have impacted my life not just their lives we have to remember this is access to college quote for the vast majority of these students they're never going to go to any professional sports success the vast majority of these students don't have any interest in being out there trying to raise money for nil the vast majority of these students they think they have it pretty good I have a scholarship I'm getting support in other ways and that's what's important then on the nil front is also forcing students to become entrepreneurs at a much earlier age they have to be more Mindful and careful about their brand okay so I think the idea that there's student athletes that don't want to make money Student athletes dont want to make money that's a big leap of that that's a pretty big leap there uh you know listen I I'm in the restaurant business you know why I'm in the restaurant business because when I went to ruter I got a job in restaurants to to to have money while I was a student there and I went on to ended up being my career you know my two degrees from my my double major at ruter was philosophy and po s and guess what my my life is it's working in food service so um in terms of athletes not wanting to get paid because they value their college degree it this this sounds like a an argument from you know certain parts of the fan base that are against nil that say that you know they get the college degree their own scholarship that's enough you know they don't need to get paid on top of that well that that just I I I I don't like that mindset at all because again it all goes back to revenue and you know I'm I I took Labor Relations at Ruckers many many years ago and um you know I've always been enamored with Marvin Miller who was the uh lawyer and the uh players union rep that created free agency in Bas Major League Baseball and his main argument was that the uh players are the product and that they deserve a share of the revenue now that's coming up nowadays in college athletics and that's a big debate and how it's done and all that and you have some coaches out there preaching that this is the way it has to be you know Jim Harbaugh for all his faults has been a great advocate of student athletes in saying they need to be paid now I know there's there's a risk there right in terms of do schools want to have student athletes as employees can they afford that that is that's a concern but that doesn't mean that it's would be wrong or that you're telling me St athletes aren't going to want to do that um so I I I I was very disappointed with that comment you know again the framework of it the the the the quote of it I have to believe that that's I mean that's what Hobs was quoted as saying right I I I just can't imagine uh again when he says that um uh for the vast majority of these Student athletes dont deserve money students they've never going to go professional sport success yes so they want to make money now off their sports that they can't ENC College because they're not going pro uh the vast majority of these students don't have any interest in being out there trying to raise money for nil well who's to say the athlete has to be out there trying to raise money isn't that that the job of the collectives isn't that the job of you know Ruckers to help the student athletes they're not out there you know on the street like trying to raise funds that's not the point and that's not what they should be doing so that line to me just is like a loaded line I don't like that uh quote at all from Hobbs and it just sounds to me like a corner that that's like a corner of the fan base on Facebook that is just anti- everything when it comes to nil and thinks that students don't deser student athletes don't deserve to make money so that's concerning now that being said everything above the books he has Ruckers doing is he prioritizing as much as people want him to obviously not this article never would have come out if people weren't pissed off at him for not doing enough right so then that's that's you know the the the big struggle I think is and Hobs talks about it you know and and I was always concerned about this is the facilities part right he's trying to raise money for facilities shano wanted facilities when he got here shano saying we need nil now you know that is a big part of it universities asking donors to give to nil versus to them for facilities that's that's I mean that that's a showdown for the ages right and that is one where that we're talking about Legacy here you're talking about infrastructure you're talking about tax breaks uh you know Hobs listen Hobs uses political Capital to get those deals with Murphy and uh the state to be able to do this construction on the rack right and and and that's has been his Focus uh and now donors want him to focus on nil and you know it seems like and he said in the article that it takes up most of his time is the facilities part and he's really good at that part no ad in history has ever had as hard of a job as Pat Hobs so listen I'm not trying to just con praise him I'm not just trying to condemn him again I'm shooting from the hip I'm saying telling it like I think it is how I see it how I see it you know and I think Hobs is done a lot of good quote stinks donors God bless them they've given a Big donors losing confidence lot of money to Ruckers some have given to facilities some are giving to nil now uh it sounds like some of the big donors have lost confidence and is that going to preim uh reduce the amount they're willing to give because they don't see uh everyone pulling together in terms of doing everything they can to maximize nil so then they're not going to put their money forward because they feel like it's not going to be utilized the best it's all kind of a mess and you know talking about coaches everywhere you know Brian Don 247 Sports said that you know shano has to be out there you know working for nil dollars why he's coaching recruiting all that stuff well I mean to be honest I think that's just the new reality and and shano even says you know he adapt you either adapt or die and he's adapted and that's got to be part of his Focus I mean you have coaches all over the country doing that have Matt rule right Matt rues even quoted in the mentioned in the article about his quote about quarterbacks and all that um you know you Fran Brown getting hired Syracuse preaching nil you know you have Mick Cronin bitching about nil after a five on five start I mean coaches are always that's just part of the coach's job now they have to push for nil right they can't be silent on it you can't just rely on the ad to do that job coaches have now at the same time if the coaches feel the strain of doing it and they don't feel supported by the ad that's another story and and perhaps that is what the issue is here uh Olympic sports are suffering um s Beasley was quoted um and you know she also talked about being the wild west but that it's harder for these Olympics Sports to get donors and you know I I'm sure that's true uh and it seems like Ruckers has you know the Olympic sports always seem to have one or two big donors and then that's it uh so that's a challenge um you know the other thing uh that I thought was curious was in terms of basketball right we're talking about basketball about the 24 class you have Dylan Harper and it was mentioned that he signed the Fanatics deal um you know and it's it kind of downplayed the nil was important to him what was talked about was that you know everything I've been hearing about the you know the shoe deal in terms of you know Adidas being involved with nil you know I they've signed several Ruckers athletes uh including Emily Mason women's soccer you know they have another kind of program for nil I forget what it's called but it's on social media Dereck Simpson's part of it you know and I think that they're probably uh involved in terms of ruers and basketball right they're the big sponsor and uh you know I I think eventually probably there's they have to have something to do with nil right and then I think what's not being said here is that outside donors right it was referenced but I think that there's outside donors that are involved with the 24 class in terms of supporting nil so if that's not being counted here right then that's a missing piece of the puzzle and by the way Hobs brought in the shoe deal so if Adidas is giving money uh in nil then he deserves some credit for that so it does you have to look at it from both sides and and what are people looking to gain right at the end of the day I think everybody wants rers to be successful but everybody wants to do it their way Hobbs wants to do it his way the university wants to do it that way the collective wants to do it their way big donors want to do it their way everyone is want us to do it I hope this leads to change differently and all these frustrations are coming out in this article and listen at the end of the day it's news it's important Sarge did a great job with the article it's important to put out there what I hope is that maybe this leads to some change in terms of maybe everybody can get in the in the in the same room and talk this out and figure it out right because this public aing of G I mean I I I didn't I guess it is Festivus right so it's the aring of grievances but uh this public display it's been simmering uh you know through the media now and then this is kind of like this was a bit of an explosion so I want to just make sure that I'm not missing anything um but I thought that listen nil needs to be better yes it's an annual thing and there needs to be more cohesion there needs to be some more uh Synergy between all the different groups and it's clear that it's not there right now and that's concerning and at the end of the day it's on the ad to make sure that it happens so there is a disconnect there uh at the same time I don't buy into the Doom and Gloom simply because you just had 10 starters retained for football you have the best recruiting class of all time coming in for basketball if those two things didn't exist then yes it's it's a disaster but those are two major things two major things so something's got to be going right and I again nights of the collective nights of the Rarity deserves all the praise for being involved with the retention and I think the point of shano's quote in the beginning is that that Bell was answered to a degree maybe not as much as they want maybe you know yes they're losing guys in the portal because of nil and and that's but but I I think also what's never said in these things because it's not kosher to say is that Ruckers was always losing these battles under the table they if if Ruckers had a was going in on a fair fight you know they were bringing a a you know a wooden sword to to a gunfight when it came to recruiting in the past because all these other schools were paying under the table and Ruckers wasn't now everything's out and it looks like you know to me Ruckers is doing better than they ever did before because of nil and no they're not going to compete with the best schools out there with the most money and you know uh the a lot of the the top of the Big 10 in the SC Schools they're not maybe over time you know we don't have at the end of the day you know kns of kns of the ran has about 2,000 donors 900 monthly subscribers a,2 one-timers uh there's been estimates it was multiple estimates about about two million right Jason beler who is um you know uh sule nil his organization he helps run the Ruckers Collective he said that Ruckers is in the bottom 10% of P4 schools the average is about four million um rers is listen they're they're not Does Rutgers need more money the top that maybe they're not in the middle but they are seeing some Success Through nil and I think that I don't think the Ruckers recruiting class for basketball would ever have happened without nil so that is a success story now are they winning every portal battle you know was was cam Spencer and mhe leaving a problem yes does basketball need more help yes does football need more help yes everybody needs more help the money tree just never stops growing that's the problem right it's never going to stop and you need annual contributions but Ruckers doesn't have you know they don't have a an under arour Alum you know they don't have the crazy guy from Syracuse they don't have the life wallet guy from Miami you know those schools that's like one guy funding the whole thing you know what about the guy at Penn State that donated $90 million to start hockey like Ruckers doesn't have it there listen there's Ruckers alumni that could do things like that but it's up to them to spend their money right so unless you have a guy like that you're just not going to compete like that I I don't think I I think for a university that has struggled for fundraising for years and years and years and years and years and had red tape for years and years and years and disconnect you know I finally felt like that we were close to having cohesion uh between Holloway and Hobs and the donors and you know everybody else and and and nil is like this just uh fire sword going through everything that you know is creating issues that at the end of the day student athletes deserve to be paid whether you like that or not I I strongly feel they do Ruckers has to figure it out have they figured it out somewhat I think they have have they done everything they can above the line I think they've done a lot you can always do more is it hobb's fault that businesses aren't just throwing money at the soon athletes I don't really think so um could he be doing more sure yes he could be um do I like that quote that statement about you know not all student athletes want money that's that sounds ridiculous it makes them sound out of touch to be honest with you uh the collectives need more money they want more money the coaches are you know under a lot of stress and pressure Everyone wants Rutgers to be successful because of this at the end of the day like I said everyone wants Ruckers to be successful and everybody's got to get in the room and be an adult and figure it out because this article does not help it doesn't help creating Panic doesn't help creating division doesn't help and again I'm not blaming any one person you know everyone that's involved in this got to figure this out you know and I I have an open invitation to anyone that wants to come on to the podcast and talk about this but I want to present all sides you know and and I listen I just think that we don't need to create this situ Final thoughts Ruckers needs more help to get farther ahead right we all want that but at the same time we don't have to burn down the room to get there and overall I think I'm just you know it's just uh the whole thing just is frustrating I know everyone's frustrated it's obvious everyone's frustrated there's certainly I mean a very vocal uh pool of people that you know are in this article that are obviously very frustrated mad at Hobs and it's up to Hobbs has to figure this out now because he's been called out very publicly so egos have to be swallowed um and action has to be done and whatever that means whatever you know if if you're not um things are going to be changing very quickly in this world and in terms of the nil space it continues to change and I just hope that this can be a moment a galvanizing moment where everyone gets off the mat puts their big boy pants on sits in a room whatever Zoom call whatever calls but stuff's got to get figured out because there is a positive story here at ruter and it's getting just to flamethrowers needs more everyone needs more resources everyone does but we're not going to get there like I guess I my my last point in all this is what was the goal of the article right to put public pressure on Hobbs to do what what is Hobbs not doing that this article and this pressure is going to get him to do that's the big question right is it does he have the power to go to businesses and say give me your money is that is that what the missing link is like what what is he not doing that he can can do now that this article is out there right does he need to just every day post that hey we need you to donate to nil does he need to stop the facilities projects for nil is that what everybody wants done I don't know but that that that's what needs to be hashed out you know I'm very curious to see if Governor Murphy gets involved now uh in terms of this President Holloway did not give comment um you know this is this isn't going to get better from this article it's only going to get worse and everybody's got to figure this out so again I'm a little emotional about it because I'm upset because I love Ruckers I love Ruckers Athletics I love the school I I like and respect everyone that's that's involved in all this and it just sucks that you know it's at such a divisive point right now so um I don't know if this was coherent at all I don't know if this helped at all uh again I I this is just my honest take I'm shooting from the hip uh I I I don't know you know it's uh this whole article um covered a lot and uh it was well sourced it was well reported I did have some issues with some omissions again I think the football team coming you know retention the basketball class there there's there's more positives to upsell there than were sold uh there is serious concern right you're not going to compete right now with the top but if you can't compete with you know the indianas if you can't compete with um you know the Washington States if you can't compete with teams that and programs and schools that Ruckers we think right should be in a better place than them then that's a problem uh so it's a developing situation I wanted to give my take on this and uh I hope this was informative helpful whatsoever and uh you know I hope uh I didn't offend anyone I just wanted to lay it out there it's just how I see it you know I'm not perfect I'm not saying I have the perfect solution either but all I know is things can be handled better than how they're being handled and this article didn't just manifest overnight this is uh a lot of frustrations built up over a period of years and it's getting to a critical mass now and it's got to be resolved in some way so I hope that it is soon and I hope anyone that wants to come on and talk about this from a you know Ruckers perspective from a collective perspective from donors Reach Out let's talk let's get it out there thanks so much for listening once again here at the Scarlet [Music] [Music] faithful