Arizona Cardinals 2014 training camp and depth chart and Patrick Peterson show

no risk it no [Music] [Applause] [Music] biscuit coming from the Arizona desert presented by sbnation.com for Arizona Cardinals fans by Arizona Cardinal fan with Outsider and Insider's perspective this is Revenge of the [Music] birds Hello every Cardinals fans this is J rude and this is Revenge of the birds radio and it's training camp we're right in the middle of the training camp with the first pre-season game about to begin this weekend as the Arizona Cardinals will host the Houston Texans at University of Phoenix stadium Saturday evening it will be at home it will be on local TV and we've got real football real football not just talking about the football coming up but we've got some real stuff in fact we're going to be talking we're going to get Seth Cox on the line as we do thank you guys for listening as always I appreciate you taking the time whether you're listening live or via download we appreciate taking the time to listen to We us talk Arizona Cardinals we've got a good show to tonight we're going to be talking a whole bunch about training camp and things that have been going all and then the biggest news of all well I don't know if it's the biggest news but one of the biggest news of all they kind of the biggest National story that is and we're going to talk about Patrick Peterson's brand new shiny $70 million extension that makes him the highest paid quarterback in NFL history and not only in actual money in the contract in the extension H but also in a perear average uh on the extension side and locks him up with the Arizona Cardinals for seven more seasons including this one so he will be locked up through the year 2020 we'd like to let you know that tonight's show is brought to you by audible.com and by fanduel.com both of both of both of our sponsors which SP take care of the show uh starting off audible.com is one of the large the largest audio content provider on the web more than 100,000 uh content pieces ways to listen things you can listen to whether it's Sports books uh radio shows podcast audible.com is is the way to go and there's a special offer that we're offering as we have been through audible.com go ahead and try out the service Audi trial.com Revenge ofthe Birds that's Audi trial.com revenge of thee birds and what you can do is test out Audible test out the audible service and get yourself a free audiobook download that's a $15 value a free audiobook download to test out the service listen to a book and see if you like and to go from there it's a great service again that's Audi trial.com revengeofthebirds and we've got Seth Cox on the line let's bring him on as we always do thanks for coming on with us tonight Seth how you doing good Jess how are you doing great as we're in the middle at training camp and as always you can give us a call if you're listening to us live give us a call at 646 47837 187 if you've got a comment a question an observation is is the training camp practices have been open except for the one on Monday um and if you are listening via download of course you won't be able to call in live but you can of course send us visit you can send us a tweet on on Twitter my my handle is at seorj root or at revenge of birds or you can visit the site Revenge ofthe birds.com join the SB Nation community and comment on this on the site there as it is the best Arizona Cardinals community that you will find so tell us Seth what has you most excited about these past few days now that we got training camp underway um I think just the fact that we're getting some observations on the guys were all hyped up on during the off season um obviously you and I talk a lot off air and and you know personally and and we've talked a lot about John Brown um he was a guy that I was high on going into the draft process and the fact that he's just kind of come out and and been what I thought he could be is has been really fun to watch um not hearing about Jared Vere or Bobby Massie for the last couple of weeks has been really nice because that just means that they're doing their job um and then you know on the flip side kind of maybe a little disappointed in what you're hearing about uh Jonathan Cooper and and you know his his kind of ring rust um so to speak struggles at this point and in what he's going through and um obviously that's all just kind of preliminary stuff but it is all stuff to get excited about or maybe maybe be worried about maybe not be worried about I I hope we find out a little bit more on Saturday on Cooper but uh um that's where I'm at right now well let let's start with the Patrick Peterson contract which came down the pike last week was I I'll tell you I was surprised it wasn't surprising to me that Peterson became the highest paid cornerback it didn't surprised me the money he got what surprised me was the timing uh it sounded all off seon it sounded like all offseason that they were in the wait and see basically going to push the since he had two years he's got this year and they exercised the fifth year option and it pushed it off to next I thought it was next off season before we're ever going to hear about this and then all of a sudden hey they're negotiating then all of a sudden boom deal $70 million and Peterson himself tweeted it out I know there was a little bit uh some of the people I know on Twitter and follow and follow me there was some just whether that was tasteful or not but tell tell me tell me Seth what what was your reaction to the contract what was your reaction to the contract overall the timing the amount and how it came about you know the timing makes sense that it's always good to have some positive vibes as you head into the regular season um obviously they're four weeks away but just just being able to get that deal done get it kind of away and off of everybody's mind I I think that made a a big difference for the this year um timing wise and kind of what they did I see it as this and I'm kind of going through right now um the free agent list to get a a feel sort of yeah so next year's free agent have Rivas um who's going to be a free agent again kardi is going to be a free agent again obviously um you have you have some interesting guys maybe a Charles Peanut Tilman in in Chicago um really I mean Josh Wilson and Atlanta I mean it's not it's not a great list so I think the Cardinals thought process was simply um we're gonna have to pay this guy and next offseason we're going to have to beat a lot of teams out because as much as everybody and as much as Patrick said the right stuff he wants to be a part of this build is he wants to see this team win a playoff game or you know get this team to the playoffs and get them to a Super Bowl um he also said one thing that was really interesting it was a very big deal for him to be the highest paid quarterback in the NFL well that needed to take place this year they're on the deal they got him on um because like I said you're gonna have derell Rivas next year you're gonna have Peanut Tilman next year but you're also going to have to deal with um and and I know they could is his fifth year option but you're also going to have to deal with okay what happens after that fifth year option do you franchise him because if you franchise him then you're going to pay him you know what is it 14 15 million anyways and then you're really going to start creating some bad blood so I think just the timing of it getting him locked up for what they got him locked up for not having to deal with the distraction in the next couple years of the fact that he's gonna be unhappy you know he would have been unhappy not getting paid and and the fact that he did have that desire to be the highest paid cornerback in the NFL um it would have made for other teams having the chance to come in him you know really blow him away and the Cardinals not getting even a shot to get him back you actually that's actually the point I hadn't even thought about is is looking at the next year free agent class cuz basically unless we see something with Dell Rivas over the course of the Season it almost guarantees that through this entire season Patrick Peterson will have the title the highest paid quarterback in NFL history he it just has the look to that unless something has revas um between now and the off season uh and to have Rivas out on the market and then have to renegotiate Peterson's deal they probably actually the Cardinals are probably saving a little bit of money in that in that sense um the amount are you okay with the amount he's got he got a signing bonus a little more than 50 15 million um he's getting a base salary uh this year his base salary is super low I mean because he he got the he getting the $15 million payout so his his salary is a little less than 900,000 technically um but I mean the guarantees of when you talk about what $48 million guaranteed it's not really 4 $8 million guaranteed there's certain amount from there it's injury guaranteed um and what I mean that's really not that big a deal NFL contracts are funny like that but I are you okay with the amount I I really I mean I thought they bet they went just a little bit I mean they went a little bit higher than than Hayden's money and they went a little bit higher just a little bit higher than than Sherman's per year average that seemed perfect to me you know for me the hardest thing to deal with in any sense is you you are paying a guy that's not a quarterback and so you you know you end up having a little when you know when you need to pay a quarterback all of a sudden it's going to be a lot of money tied up and now three guys Larry Fitz um Peterson and and your quarterback obviously If Logan Thomas works out then um you've got him for you know two to three years on on a cheap type of deal kind of Seattle like and what they did so you know I I know it's the market I know you don't give up guys like him um but I I guess it really depends on what they do this year if they take the next step and they get to the playoffs and win in the playoffs then then it was worth it but if they if something you know goes Ary and and they're still a couple pieces away and they tied up a bunch of cap space and and a cornerback but they don't have a pass rusher or you know a quarterback then it's all of a sudden your two highest paid players are uh a defensive back and a in a and you're you know kind of losing a window um of having a great defense so yeah it's I I see why they do it it's what the market bears and it's what they had to do it's just for for players like any any defensive back it's hard for me to jump up and down about you know paying that much for that position so well it it let's say he takes the next step and he becomes a pre-injury derell Rivas quality cornerback you think he's worth it then because of the the ability to to take somebody completely out of the game yeah and I mean and and that's not a shot at what he now either um I think my point more is I I prefer the idea of building from the inside out as opposed to the outside in and I and um you know they're going to have to figure out the pass rush situation if you know on what happens with Abraham what we'll get into later obviously and and other situations and and obviously having a good quarterback can assist in that pass rush type of thing but um you know just it's weird to me to think that A team's paying basically $30 million for one uh receiver and one cornerback and and there's still questions at quarterback and and uh pass rusher when those are kind of the bigger you know more important issues on a team so well what do you think this means um overall I mean there's obviously going to be some implications here um I think the biggest one well first off before we get to that he it the press conference was really kind of an interesting vibe to it you could tell at the confidence that he has the type of swagger he carries himself with being the number one paid was clearly a priority for him like that was something he was waiting for meeting and then it it's almost like this contract he can a deep breath and now he can work a lot of guys you see get the money and Coast to me it was it seems like Peterson was fighting or maybe some of this tentativeness like at least the punt turn game I know I've heard from more than one person who said it looked like every single time he was back there Fielding a punt he was thinking about his knees or thinking about that contract and and now one he's he's basically taking off punts and and definitely off the the offense and know he's just got defensive duties that now that he's gotten the title of number one paid cornerback now he's going to finish job and and do it well that's that's at least the the vibe I get from him do you think that he rides you know the coattails of his contact or you that he becomes even better uh Steve K usually he's scratching the surface he could redefine the position uh do is that just simple hyper from from the general manager in a moment where the Cardinals were the head of the curve in the league that never happens the Cardinals are never ahead of the curve and they were the very first to get someone from the 2011 Draft class uh lock long term and to somehow deal with that fifth year option in there they were ahead of the curve um so was that just hyperbole or do you really think do you think that Patrick can still will include to and continue to improve or or will he be what he's been a really good uh but some kind of like an Antonio kardi in sense very talented but will have some very inconsistent moments um I don't think it really makes a difference for him I think the type of player that is going to always push himself as to be great because um he kind of reminds me of of kind of like pton Manning in that sense where his his Legend is almost as important or maybe yeah probably almost as important as as how much money he makes and I think part of that is he's what 23 is he 23 or 24 right right there I don't remember which one he is so and this is a six-year contract so he'll be 30 when he's done so he can conceivably get another four to fiveyear Giant contract um again to be a you know an older cornerback slash um you know change over to a safety type thing semi like what Charles Woodson did and so you're talking you know a guy that can like you said maybe redefine the position is hyperbole but a guy that can redefine success at the position from not just a monetary but uh an onfield Play Type point and and maybe he can you know take the next step to where he kind of revolutionizes what they're looking to do although um you've pointed out quite a bit in uh your tweets from Camp that it seems like he's playing a lot of uh the Richard Surman left cornerback role um in his M and I I I've seen him move around a bit but I'm thinking it's more it's less about Patrick as it is more about Antonio kardi on the other side who I I believe just as more comfortable on that right side and so instead of ruing him everywhere you you stick cardi on one side Patrick on the other because I have seen Patrick move around uh when bethl was in replacing uh kardi and he was out for a few days with his Peck injury okay and that and that might be like I was just kind of reading off of what you and others have said about kind of the field designation sides but I think the main thing is he he's not a guy you ever have to worry about um resting on his Laurels because he's so involved and and not in a bad way but involved in what his legacy is that he wants that Legacy to include um you know being talked about as one of the greatest ever so I think you're going to see him continue to sell and and I think um in 3 years when he's halfway through that contract if he's you know the best cornerback in the league like he plans on being that he's going to start uh holding out and wanting to get paid more money because um as you and I talked about earlier more cornerbacks are going to become available and more cornerbacks are going to get paid so it's uh it's something that consumes him being the best and I so I don't think it's ever going to be an issue this is the this is the next question that I have obviously well now let's look at the the cap number that the cap number this year which kind of why I'm surprised why they did it because his contract right was really pretty cap friendly it was right at about 5.9 million as was his cap hit coming into this season um so why would you do anything why with the contract however the way they structured it he is he his cap hit only went up a about 900,000 about a little over a million I think it's 6.9 million his cap hit is now and so really it's not that bad I mean it didn't go up that much and and it changed things but his capit next year in 2015 is goes up to it goes up to 14 almost 14.8 million um here's the question did this contract all but nail the put the nail in the coffin of Larry Fitzgerald's tenure here in Arizona I I think it almost has to be aside from Fitz taking a drastic pay cut or or pushing money back again in another restructure a kind of playing the cap game where the expect you to expect to have these bigger gains in the salary cap where you can accommodate that dead money later on but do you see this as the nail in the coffin for fits in 2015 um I mean you kind of hit it on the head if he restructures not or not re not restructure sorry renegotiates then no um but probably because like I said you can't you can't pay a wide receiver and a cornerback 30 whatever it's going to be 30 31 32 33 million whatever it ends up being um of your salary cap space I don't care if the salary cap is 160 million you still can't pay two players that um are you know kind of outside players guys that may or may not impact the game on every down um that much money especially when you may have to resign and Carson Palmer at 12 to 13 to 15 million a year I was just going to say that like you you're going to have to going to have to have Carson for another year unless the year turns out to be a disaster so you're going to have a cap hit of 23 million for fits of almost 15 for Patrick and then another you know if they work a little bit of the of that cap magic then it'll be it'll probably be a 10 million dollar hit so you've got like 50 million wrapped up in three players of your cap yeah and and you can't forget I mean that's still Darnell's on the hook Darnell and Kus are on the hook for about 20 combined so Darnell then you've got darl Washington to think about as well once that suspension is lifted so you're talking a lot of money for five players so I mean that you're exactly right if he renegotiates not restructure don't keep pushing the you know as one of the commenters on Revenge of the birds said don't keep kicking the can down the road um you know either either pull the trigger you know rip the Band-Aid off let the hurt start and move on or you know um go to Fitz and and just be like this is what we want to do this is what we need to do as a team and we want you here for you know eternity basically so whatever you have to do I don't know if you can give ownership stake in in the franchise I don't know of that but um just you know figure it out and but you you can't have Fitz and Patrick on the roster together at the at the cost that you're going to have them at at this point all right let's move on to actual training camp the fun of training camp cuz now we're getting to see some football so here we have just go General what's been for you what's been the biggest surprise for you out coming out of Camp so far I think um and I haven't been to camp but everything I've read and everything I've watched has said basically that the right side of the offensive line looks really good um you know who knows if that's true or not we'll see uh you know especially on Saturday when they're going to get you know 10 15 plays against JJ Watt who absolutely obliterated poor Paul F last year so we'll see where that's at as we as we go forward but um I I think having that side of the offensive line locked down so to speak and be effective uh is is Big because that's something that was a big concern uh it it still is a concern obviously because it's just going up against their own team but I think uh hearing that it's a good thing has been important um from there I think obviously John Brown's kind of everybody's uh Crush at this point so I think that's a another good thing because as we just talked about they're going to need to start grooming someone to rep Place fits and and brown is the Prototype Aran receiver what he likes and I think that's what we're going to see um going forward especially at the wide receivers position I think Brown and Walt pal were both drafted for that reason and and that's that's important as well the last thing I think is that we're seeing a lot of the good that Logan Thomas can do um I know he's struggled a lot as well uh there's no denying that but the fact that you're seeing those throws that nobody else on the roster and probably only five or you know six other guys in the league can make um consistently in Camp you're seeing them every day in Camp I think that means that they're they're starting to break down what the problems were and and build up the strength so you can see um you know maybe a glimpse of a future guy in there and and for me the biggest surprise actually is it's kind of along with your line I was convinced heading in that Bradley sa would end up being the guy for whatever reason that Massie would continue to be what he's been a really good physical specimen dude that guy he's looking the part he's working the part and he's talking the part that Massie it's fun he's talking he's talked to the medum for I've talked to him a couple of times he's excited he's he's genuinely thrilled about the starting job um that he's got a hold on especially he was really kind of bummed last year about how things went down he knew that he knew he had the troubles with the Playbook they have mental issues and in the the mental errors not mental issues but mental errors on the with the new offense and he's been working with Charles Bentley who's been who's been really good for several I mean for several offensive lineman uh Max Starks who they just signed is another thing um but I'm I'm surp surprised and and pleasantly surprised at the play of of both Bobby Massie and Paul FICA who's been nothing but gotten rave reviews by Bruce arens and and he was he got the same kind of reviews he stood out last year so obviously there's a little more to what the public sees because what we see on film is is a guy that's gotten dominated a lot now he's got a year in his belt and and his coach who has all the all the confidence in the world in fact they drafted the guy that they intended to play there and and saying Paul's just not fica's just not giving up the job um like likely another another surprise I'm surprised I mean it's I'm surprised that we haven't seen a little more of D Buchanan but I'm not too surprised because obviously I think Tony Jefferson he's got a chip on his shoulder that's another guy I've talked and see there he's got a big chip on his shoulder um does not want to leave the field he's he's dinged up he said I'm I'm not sitting down he knows he knows that they brought in Deon and they and they're and they're pretty tight they're have a good relationship but he knows that the second he relents at all that he's going to lose his job and and that's an interesting and fun competition like you I haven't been surprised by Logan Thomas but am I goodness um he's inaccurate on some throws but there are some throws I I I'm Amazed by especially he can put with with that arm with that arm strength that that just the great ball that he throws when a guy is raped all over the receiver uh coming inside Thomas can put that ball in there so fast right in the chest and it's the super small window I mean it's not and it's something like we talk about John Skelton that type of throw I never saw that from Skelton he had a big arm back for down the field but he was not great at zipping the ball into that small window and I saw that I've seen that almost every single practice now he does have a few head scratchers but I mean you get that from all of them um I'm also surprised that I'm also surprised that well that they've been as healthy as they have I mean they've have been a few dings up I mean you got BL sunline now but I've been pleasantly surprised so far at the injuring at the lack of injuries and I hope that continues because that's you know gameplay that's that's really important that we not have another season ending injury uh let's talk disappointments I think the biggest disappointments overall I think we've got to say is well obviously the one John Abraham John Abraham not um not being in Camp for for obvious reasons although I suspect this is against all speculation I suspect that the reason why he's not back is because he's in treatment which is not a bad thing it's not a it's not a negative at all it's a positive that he's take getting that taken care of it's very disappoined that Abraham's not here it's it's disappointing um although not unex expected it's not disappointed in as in bust disappoint but it's disappointed to see Jonathan Cooper not being awesome and he's just being young and recovering and and and and in the case of when it comes to the comments with Bruth s where they uses the word disappointed it's not that he's not happy he's disappointed that the recovery hasn't come as quickly or as they thought they would it would and so it's not a case where he's unhappy with Jonathan himself because Cooper himself he's seen flashes there something like hey that's the old me and then there's some things he's like I I don't get it for you what's been the most disappointing thing of Camp thus far um you know Abraham was the whole thing with Abraham is is disappointing you and I have talked about it a little bit off off the air and things like that we we knew something was coming we didn't know what but um I think the fact that it's it's kind of imp eting you know it's interesting and let me step back for a second it's interesting that out of everything coming into this off season when you and I started talking you know when the draft you know before the draft when free agency was about to start you and I started talking in the concern was about the offensive line and fixing the offensive line um protecting Carson Palmer and all of that and now um here we are what two weeks into training camp first preseason game on the horizon and there's a lot of unknowns on this defense all of a sudden um a defense that was probably what top five in the NFL and now all of a sudden there's question marks we're not sure what to expect um there there's some really good battles Tony Jefferson as he talked about really stepping up you've got you know um the cornerbacks looking very strong um and Kevin Minter and Larry foot have have been decent from everything that I've read um but there's concerns about the pass rush you're losing basically three pro bowlers um from the last two years so far or you've lost three po proar Bowlers from the last few years so far D Washington and and Abraham hopefully will be back soon but like you said we have no idea what's going on so I think just the unknown of everything that's going on with the defense is disappoint um especially when it was such a strength last year and and it really was the reason they won 10 games from there I think um the other disappointing thing is and like you said John Cooper um the rust the the uh mental errors maybe um is disappointing but I think and as you said it's not a bad thing on his part but I think de own Buchanan uh needing to be used kind of as that dime nickel linebacker as much as he has been is kind of disappointing to me um because it kind of spoke to what we talked about before training camp even started about the worries in past coverage and when you spend 50 plus percent of your time in nickel or you know in a version of nickel um then all of a sudden you're talking about you know a asking a rookie safety to do something that he didn't do a whole lot of um in college yeah he played in the box but he's going to be playing kind of a different position and then hoping that he then translates back to being a safety once you know you you figure out your inside linebacker position I think that's kind of just disappointing on the whole um obviously we haven't even seen what's going to happen yet so I'm probably way way uh overthinking it but that that's just me well and and let's be honest I mean uh until we see the preseason it's all I mean we've barely seen pads and that's the only full tackle drill is at the goal line and and there's been a couple of players there stood out and they're they're young undrafted type players that have stood out so we we'll have to wait and see um let's let's take a look at some of the old uh some of the position battles let's look on the offensive line um and now it's not so much the front line we got pretty much Bobby Massie has locked up the right tackle position knock on wood knock on wood or or drywall or plastic or whatever you have around you that ly Sun Lin's current cap injury that will keep him out about three weeks so he'll be back for the last preseason game or maybe even the third preseason game that is the extent of the injuries they see on the offensive line um but Bobby maie all but has that job locked up Paul F all but has that job locked up um Vere he's he's you know what he's going to be and then so there's this secondary and I don't know how serious to to consider this position battle between Jonathan Cooper and oral Watford um Watford by all accounts had a great Camp Paul fik has just had a better camp and and then from there do how serious is how do you serious do you think this Paul this this Earl Watford playing on first team is other than hey we're rewarding you for your we're rewarding you for your great Camp um you know have a look how serious you think this this battle is that they're talking about I think it's serious in the fact that um you know Cooper sat out today with a apparent knee injury um ev Everything is pointing to this this broken leg um being worse than what it was initially reported you know I I linked it in my article today that the talk at the time was oh he'll be back you know for week 12 and then they put him on the the IR for the season um a lot of the talk was you know well it's just not fair to have him out there or you know keep that kind of carrot out there um when we have other players that deserve to play and you know he could have come back but we want you know we just want everybody to be into a Rhythm by that time and him to get completely healthy and and then you go back and you you know you kind of look through the RB archives and and the talk isn't Cooper 100% Cooper you know waiting to you know show his stuff this season it's uh Cooper you know struggling in in rehab or you know he's still not 100% or he's still this or that um I I think we all were kind of played in what we expected of him um in in in terms of recovery and and not everybody recovers the same I mean that's one of the most important things I think about sports is that everybody's injury heals differently so to to have expected him to come back and just be this dominant um you know guy that he was supposed to be you know I joked about it in my article but this Hall of Fame lineman that everybody was already anointing him after two preseason games last year um I I think was unfair for him because then the the the expectations were unrealistic and now all of a sudden there is that struggle there it may be more mental Than Physical at this point but there are a lot of you know he's been struggling at camp and um he you don't want to say he's lost his first team spot but it's been a uh it's not exactly what Cardinals fans had in mind well and and it it's very interesting the the sort of pressure that they put on Cooper even now um Bruce Aran says we're waiting for him to show the special player we drafted Steve Kim who before he didn't even have been in any practice was was comparing it to Allan FICA uh and talking about talking to him like a few Hall of Fame guard it's almost unfair because and and it's not his fault he was drafted that High I mean it's not his fault um and yet if he's anything other than a a special or Elite guard he's kind of you know now he could be very good he could be better than average and so it won't look like Levi Brown because it's not a tackle but it it will be disappointing and and be interesting to see what happens with this this Watford thing and and if there's one thing that is happening though is Watford is proving us to be wrong I don't think he's going to be any sort of cut at all at this point we're going to be seeing something else that that's the other um the the signing of Max Starks is an interesting Dynamic uh because Starks is now the number two number two right tackle and he can play left and right tackle he's much thinner by the way he's a has spelt 320 lbs he came into Camp last year in sing about 350 uh looks great I'll tell you he looks he looks great and so Potter's playing second team left tackle Starks second team right tackle and then Bradley saell who hasn't had a bad Camp Bruce arens didn't say he's he's been disappointing he said that he's been okay probably not as good as he should have uh so he's pushed back on the third team so that kind of busts my theory that Bradley sa is going to be you know he's going to be the guy he's going to be the guy on the bench so what do you see happening now I I read into this a little bit different best based on the comments that Bruce said at the at his press conference after Starks was signed that it was about giving young guys a chance and when they they show that they can't is filling depth with veterans I did not see that and then then he makes a comment especially when you come to preseason game if you got a guy you've got a Young quarterback that you want you've got to be able to protect him this is what it is so that doesn't tell me that that's Bradley s that that was that was the problem it was the guy below him Cory Brandon who was cut I so while sa isn't having a great Camp he's not doing fantastic he's not doing bad and and so it was more about I think the move was more about Logan Thomas and Corey Brandon than anything else because cor because Logan Thomas they want to see what he can do and if you have a guy out there at right tackle who doesn't know what he's doing at all and so the next best thing sorry Bradley but we're going to push you down to the third team you're going to know what you're going to do so we'll be able to trust you out there and we're going to be able to let Logan make his own mistakes rather than get killed by by some scrub pass rusher at the end of the game right and one of the things that you look for in in those guys at the end of games is des I mean they're desperate they're rabid they're trying to make a team um so they have to show something and and knocking out a quarterback um like you said as a as a pass rusher as a third string fourth string fifth string pass rusher um in in your first preseason game makes a statement so you know it makes sense from that ideal um you know I don't think either of us were necessarily wrong on Watford I think we were wrong on I think we were both wrong on giving s more credit than he deserved um and I I thought it was more the relationship because I for by all accounts last year my goodness they loved themselves in Bradley s maybe it was because the way he prepared but they and they understood that he just wasn't that that that's why they they were fast at getting themselves a left tackle after as soon as free agency opened so obviously they knew that that Bradley wasn't the answer but but I'm surprised it it kind of the falling from grace that that we had with Saul yeah and and I think you and I both the only I think the person you and I both underestimated was Nate Potter um we we both knew of his ability technique-wise and that he's probably the smartest lineman they have in the entire Bunch um but I don't think either of us saw him becoming as physical as he's you know as has allegedly become in Camp this year um which was you know always the knock on him that's why he was the seventh round pick that's why um you know he lost his starting position to Bradley s um once Levi Brown was removed I mean it's just it's it's sad but it's it's true you know there there's a lot of things in the NFL and one of them is you have to physically be able to do the job and he couldn't at the time um but you know what sounds like he's gotten better um more physical and so good you know he's their kind of Swing tackle guy that's good um you know I haven't seen Max Stark so I can't really comment on him but I can say that he was awful last year and um that you know that probably isn't the best impression to have so I'll wait and see you know kind of what he is as he gets back out here and and kind of plays um I think the familiarity that he has with with Coach Ariens and it makes a big deal um and and that's why he's probably on this roster at this point and and it certainly is in fact that's why the last years he got picked up by San Diego he went to San Diego in part because he knew Ken was in Hunt's offensive system the terminology and he's here in Arizona because he knows Bruce arens and the terminology just St right steps right in he knows the calls and and there you go uh let's look at um really there haven't been any other big position battles per se a kind of a surprise for me was at running back I I thought Jonathan dwire would end up being number two all the entire time in Camp Stefon Taylor's been the number two although Aran talks like it it's not necessarily something to read into is they're each going to have their own situations and and we saw in the goal line situation that DWI was the best I mean he got in both both both times he carried the ball he got into the end zone that's probably we're going to where we're going to see him um and then the the receiver situation I mean there there's going to be an interesting battle for that last one between Geron Brown and Walt pow because both have looked Fant fantastic um and and on my projection that I did before training camp start I actually had all I actually had the Cardinal keeping six for the purpose to keep both Jon and and Walt pal because they both look really good and and they I pal offers a lot on special teams uh they I think I think Bruce Aran sees him kind of a a Justin bethl type impact player on special teams and then he's got them instead of learning all the receiver positions he's focusing on one so the outside of that there hasn't been much in the way of position battles that you noticed you don't you really haven't seen I think I think you're missing the big one that's coming out now um with with Rob howler and Darren Fels oh oh that's that's true that's true that's true you are right that that's coming out in the past couple of days although even still howler's still technically ahead of Nicholas so it's more like Fels if you're looking so Fels is trying to catch Nicholas but there's no way Nichol is going to get cut so I can see howler being a trade but I even still like we've talked about this before I can't see as as inconsistent as people say that Rob howler is he's had a great Camp by by every single account Robbie's done greatly off he's having a good camp um and to go with that what you know especially when the people the players ahead of them on the depth chart have a little you have that uncertainty historically with injuries that you're going to go with someone as raw as Fels I don't know I mean we'll have to wait and see and and that's a storyline that that is yet to be written a narrative yet to be written over the preseason yeah and I was interested in this kind of revelation of Fels um one of the things I read about him before was a lot of people were concerned about his his age because you know he is 28 so it's not like there's a ton of growth that happens there but on the flip side he's coming from basketball so it's kind of that double-edged SW of how far can he develop while he's completely maxed out physically at this point um you know how far can he develop in terms of uh technique and and kind of football ability I don't know it's just it's a weird situation um that you're we're kind of seeing play out at this point because as you said the other thing that I struggle with and I'm in agreement with you is you've got Carlson and Ballard as kind of your onew guys um Nicholas hasn't been you know great in Camp and and and a lot of that's the hand I'm not you know taking anything away from and and the fact that he's he's an unpolished Titan to begin with I mean they drafted a kid that wasn't a NFL except for the ability except for that potential of The Blocking down the field was was very raw still yeah exactly and that's what the question becomes so I think in terms of kind of everything with Fels and howler Fels is really going to have to be able to do something special um in in my opinion yeah Smith treatment right now which I'm I'm kind of impressed with he's getting the Alonso Smith treatment right now where talking about that he's blowing guys off the ball when they finally put the pads on so we'll see that's going to be an interesting and good point for bringing that up I I had forgotten about that since it's kind of the newest Revelations no no it's fine um and like you said that that running back two position I I don't know what to expect from it um I you know I kind of wrote about it but I think they're going to give the carries to Taylor and and Hughes more than dwire but maybe I'm wrong in this because I feel like arens knows what he has in D so if he sees more out of Taylor and Hughes then he can make a decision on dwire as opposed to the opposite where he's going to give dwire a ton of carries and then you know kind of let Taylor be the scrub back at the end I think you want to see Taylor and Hughes get those you know two three and then let the guys like um at you know Parnell and then Bowman you know carry the bulk of the stuff at the end of the game and now even though like the linebacker's been real quiet Larry foot has been out there three Downs when he's M though interesting M has not been asked to do anything nickel and I which is fine I mean Todd BS has been very good about not asking his players to do things that they won't necess that that they're not going to be as successful at that's why when Sam Macho went down and Lorenzo Alexander went down the defensive I mean the off the outside linebackers Abraham and shaunessy they never went into coverage I mean I think shaunessy dropped into coverage five times all last year and and they relied on the inside linebackers Mentor he's in there up for base packages they expect great things from in those packages and then in nickel he comes off the field and Larry foot stays on they bring down Buchanan uh it's it's an interesting Dynamic but I I don't see any on defense there really the position battles nothing is real heated yet at least in training camp because buan is still behind a little bit he's learning um but he's not ready I I can kind of see that I can see this happening Tony Jefferson's GNA get the Rashad Johnson treatment that last year Rashad Johnson was the starter but you knew that Tyron was coming at some point and I think that's going to happen with Buchanon at some point like Jefferson's gonna ding his hamstrings he's to miss a little time and then that's next thing you know that Buchanan's going to be the going to be the safety in in base and then move down to the dime linebacker the dollar linebacker and and nickel packages and then Jeffers will come on the field much the way that the Johnson get got that treatment with with Matthew but on the defense left side of the bottom I'm really not seeing any sort of position battle that that's seemingly happening at all yeah and I I think the one thing that we're not seeing a lot of is um it's not shocking that Mentor is not getting a lot of run in in nickel right now but if I had my brothers at this point and it's kind of a double-edged sword I would I I would put him at Nickel in the preseason at least with the second team let him get some reps in there um because he's never really going to improve on it until he he's forced to do it a lot um I think I you know we were just kind of talking about this on Twitter and and um goodness his name is escaping me hold on Jordan uh pler of of GM Junior GM scouting in um good good writer um on Twitter you can follow him at at starving he sees Deon playing more linebacker than than safety this year and that's something that you and I had kind of talked about early on um that we could see so it it's definitely it's definitely interesting because you that's a first round draft pick and a second round draft pick the last two years kind of splitting time so if you will and an undrafted rookie and um a 3 what four 33 year old veteran linebacker um kind of taking the Reigns as as the starters there so it's it's interesting um it's it's different than what definitely not what I expected so we'll see but I you know I I'm not complaining because anything that gets beaned on the field I'm I'm happy with any other takeaways that you can come up with any other takeaways from the preseason right now in general that that we haven't talked about yet I think on on Saturday we're only going to see you know Bruce coach AR and said what 15 plays um we're we're going to see a lot of Base stuff and I think that's important um I'm kind of disappointed we may not see Clowney this this week um that's obvious because you always want to see great players but Clowney not being there is going to be disappointing because you wanted to see him go up against Jared valer um I think we're going to be able to take away how imp improved you know not completely but if they're able to hold their own against the first team Texans defense Sans Clowny um in base blocking something they did not do last year in preseason games um I think we're going to you know start to get a little I guess I will join the excitement level of about the new offensive line um I I'm you know and then in the same vein we're not going to see a lot of exotic looking things on the defense but I want to see um if if mentor and foot can make plays you know in instead of plays that Dansby and Washington made for you know one to two yard gain if if M turn foot can make those same plays at only three yards as opposed to um four to five yards down the field which is where my concern lines not that they're going to be you know getting shredded for 10 yards a but the idea that you know Dansby and and Washington offered athleticism that was able to make up speed and make plays more close to the line of scrimmage where I wonder if M and foot can do that so that's something um to really watch especially team like the Texans and me I am just pleading pleading and I've been super pleased so far that the most extend s of injury has been that calf injury to send line which isn't serious there doesn't seem to be unless the these the Sor KN that we saw from Jake Ballard and Jonathan Cooper and Nate Potter who who had them sitting out of practice on Tuesday but it sounded like they'd be right back to work uh Dan Williams's knee has I mean they said he's been there but he hasn't been out there to getting reps on the field so I I I'm hoping that gets cleared up I'm just don't don't lose anyone from the season no serious injuries the we the Cardinals fans have just been devastated every single preseason somebody key the last three years just getting getting taken out for the season and in a preseason game and preseason we know I mean it's it's not worth it it's just not worth it and that's what I see I've been real impressed with everything I've seen so far um other takeaways is the fact that when you have the offense and the def defense the offense I mean there's been some turnovers but you don't know if that's you don't know whether to be excited about the defense or or worry about the offense because there there have been I have seen some interceptions um both sides uh oh that question remember that question I said on the last show that I was going to ask Bruce about and say is there is there any is there any reason is there any scenario in which you could see Ryan being out I didn't even bother I I had that question I wasn't going to ask it I was going to ask it but then the play of Drew Stanton he's had a really solid camp and he's been very good in in everything in all the practices I obviously there's no way Ryan's going to be Drew and basically the after I talked to Drew and and ask Bruce about Drew he he considers he had he would have no problem with Drew Stanton being his starter starting quarterback is what it sounds like there's always a lot of Hyperbole and everything that guy says though I I forgot to mention this um and you know you never ever ever want to wish injury on anybody and and it's not a wishing of injury but I really hope that uh Ryan Lenley is out on S Saturday just for this game that's it um I'd love to see two quarters plus of Logan Thomas and um as especially in the first game to kind of really just get a read on a lot of different things um you know he could go three for 20 and I I wouldn't care if you see the progression you know he him making the right progressions and getting the ball to good areas on the field as opposed to um you know makings or throwing the ball behind receivers or um you know selling the ball like apparently he has been at times in Camp um I think him getting as much playing time in the preseason after the talk of him not getting much playing time at all in the preseason or whatever it was that coach Aran said uh I I think is just so important and and so important for you know not what anybody wants to talk about right now but next draft season so uh and and kind of defining where the Cardinals go next year so all right so the next big thing is we've got football on Saturday and here's this is actually something I thought about you know what actually is going to be I think the best thing for Ryan Lindley this year would be the absolutely best thing for him is to end up injured at the end of Camp not a serious injury but one that puts him on injur reserve where he still gets paid for the year and then gets another shot next year that that would be probably for Ryan's career would probably the best thing for him at this point cuz he's going to get cut he'll probably be among Final Cuts because they're going to want to continue to see Lindley and Thomas at the end and he's not going to find another job somewhere and John skelton's had try out after try out after try out he hasn't latched on anywhere but but Linley really impresses me um I just don't know how much of a future he has here so what what are you looking forward to what are you looking forward to coming up um you know I'm looking forward to the preseason starting I want to watch a lot of rookies um I want to watch Buchanan and obviously um excited I'm not really going to pay attention to Troy Nicholas yet until the cast comes off um John Brown a little bit but I think he's playing with Drew Stanton so that's a you know you still want to see him get separation against guys that um aren't on his team um obviously Kem Martin's going to get a little bit of run so you want to see him be able to rush the passer um but but from there you know I'm excited you know I'm disappointed that we're not going to get a chance to watch Javi on Clowny like I talked about um I thought that was going to be a big you know fun test for that that left side of the Cardinals offensive line and now we're kind of wondering what they're going to do over there um I I'm excited to watch football though this weekend I think just having football on a lot of football on is going to make this uh an enjoyable weekend and we'll be able to uh come back next week and talk about it a little bit more all right well we will be back uh we will be back I believe next week we will have another show following our post our first preseason game I'm in the works hopefully I will have recorded on Wednesday and I hope to publish this on Thursday later in the week the preview for the Texans game um having a guest from Battle Red blog our SP Nation blog for the Houston Texans um and and have I hopefully get that interview lined up so we can we can talk to someone get a little bit of that and uh from the Houston perspective so thank as always for coming on we will talk to you later and of course I'll talk to you all the time that's fine I'll talk to you a lot but we'll be on the we'll be on the air in another week thanks everybody for listening that's set I'm Jess this is Revenge of the birds radio thanks for listening and enjoy your day Cardinal football's coming to you this weekend have a good one you've been listening to revenge of the bird keep the conversation going by visiting revenge of the birds.com follow us on Twitter at Revenge ofb birds you can also find us on iTunes at facebook.com/ revenge of the birds [Music] oh [Music]