Dialogue: Voices across time and space: Native Languages from New Zealand and Mexico

afternoon good morning wherever you are be welcome to H this dialogue voices across time and space native languages from New Zealand and Mexico the national autonomous University of Mexico Institute for philological research the university program of studies on Asia and Africa in collaboration with New Zealand Embassy to Mexico welcome all of you my name is Van DEA I will be the chair in this opening C ceremony and I would like to introduce our authorities here we have Dr lilan Alvarez director of Institute for philological research Dr Alisia hon director of University program of studies on Asia and Africa and Mr Alex harith second Secretary of the New Zealand Embassy to Mexico welcome all of you first of all I would like to open the floor for for Dr Alisia hiron director of the University program of studies on Asia and Africa welcome Dr thank you very much uh van DEA shot we we are very happy to be here first of all the importance of this seminar B and languages in newand and Mexico and also because we are making this uh conference between the philological Institute of vam that that is one of the best institutes that we have in languages and also because they are specially in our traditional languag in Mexico but other in in in other uh languages of other parts of the world at the same time I'm very happy that our the uh New Zealand Embassy is with us at the same time the Mexican H the the news Zealand Embassy in Mexico and the Mexican embassy in New Zealand so this is a great event and I'm very happy because some also when we have this webinar is not only that many people are seeing right now but it later on many people and students and other parts of the world can see it while I was trying to see uh trying to find some uh words to for this project I was I I I make a question what is the important of these languages what is the importance of Maori and the importance not only in MA in the in the in the culture of New Zealand and the project that they have of equality about language in this Society at the same time well we have languages as the Nal the Maya and and many sapota also languages but where where those but the importance of this is that we must work together to improve our knowledge of these languages and to and the superation of this so uh I think this conversation that we are having will improve this knowledge for all the people that are not only belong to the to to theam but for other universities and thank you very much and really we are very pleased that everybody has accepted this invitation and of course the this program was coordinated by H Pablo Ramirez who will Who has been a work very a lot of work he has been doing to to set to come this day thank you very much B thank you dror and now I would like to open the floor for Mr Alex hartsmith second Secretary of the New Zealand Embassy to Mexico welcome [Music] [Music] Alexander as you can tell I'm not the indigenous language expert here but I would like to extend um some warm greetings uh from the indigenous language of Alo in New Zealand Omari so my name is Alex hsmith and I'm the second secretary um at the New Zealand Embassy in Mexico on behalf of the Ambassador Her Excellency Sarah mm I'd like to thank the organizers for the opportunity to participate um in today's seminar and and for hosting us um and the opportunity to to say some introductory remarks so indigenous connections are one of the priority aspects of the bilateral relationship between Mexico and New Zealand including efforts to revitalize indigenous languages we are excited about promoting more discussions about this priority topic especially in the context of the international decade of indigenous languages established in 2022 by the UN in this context we're delighted to see two extraordinary panelists Ben and Karina and experts in the MTI language participating in this cordel and exchange of best practices with Mexican experts on language revitalization strategies and perspectives for the future of these endangered languages we hope to continue contributing to the academic and cultural cooperation and we recognize unum's effort to facilitate these spaces to further strengthen the connections with Mexico on indigenous matters I hope that today's discussion on the importance of RA or language continues to further strengthen the ties between our countries Nam thank you and much gracias thank you Mr Hart Smith now I would like to H open the floor for Dr lilan Alvarez director of Institute for philological research and I also ask her to ER to provide her in a address please thank you very much ba it is an honor for The Institute of philological research of the national autonomous University of Mexico to participate in this colloquium with Scholars and diplomats from New Zealand in our Institute as Dr hon said we study oral and written texts which are constitutive of Mexican culture we deem those to be those generated by the original inhabitants of Mexico and their descendants currently a universe of 68 languages and almost 400 variations variants in this realm we have a center for the study of MAA culture and a seminar to study indigenous languages of which we have produced studies of less than than a half of the languages we have we also study those texts which came to be ours by the root of Europe Sanskrit Greek Roman Byzantine Persian medieval and modern European text especially Spanish as a platform to further our comprehension of our own culture which we call Mexican we study oral and written texts that sprung from the appropriation of all those Traditions that I mentioned before from Sanskrit and the Greco Latin and judeo-christian um Traditions H into an original culture that we now consider rightfully ours we know the process of adopting such a diverse Heritage was not easy or equally distributed through access to education there was resistance we know all along when our country became independent there was a strong debate regarding our identity and languages as well as around the economic and social inequality of the social structures constructed during well social and linguistic structures constructed during colonial times as we are now globally aware these structures favored a few and limited dramatically the rights and lives of the vast majority to give you a timeline of our endeavors let me tell you that the University of Mexico was founded in the 16th century our country gained independence in 1821 the colonial University was refounded on entirely new basis almost 12 120 years ago our Institute was founded 50 years ago a few other dates may help pinpoint the development of this process of cultural appropriation the first academic chair for Spanish Literature was inaugurated in Spain at the end of the 18th century the first chair for indigenous languages was inaugurated in the collegio the San Gregorio in Mexico in 1842 the first chair of Mexican literature was ignor inaugurated in Mexico during the third quarter of the 19th century as a means of generating academic knowledge about Mexican culture since the 16th century onwards when the Spanish Empire conclusively took by arms the population and territory which is now Mexico our country has been a center of interest for politicians legislators uh linguists and Educators who through all these several centuries have pondered different and proposed different policies to manage linguistic diversity the work of frier berardino desagon and his native collaborators in the 16th century was one of the first work of ethnography in the world as you may know one of the most important efforts to understand the Now language and culture among others other projects gear to christianization at a different time the cultural debate and quest for Universal literacy and what was called Indian education after the the revolution which started in 1810 in 1910 I'm sorry and quelled in 1921 brought linguists to work on specific projects of alphabets description grammars and of the many languages that survived at that time driven as in other parts of the world by the will to conquer linguistic diversity was seen as a condition for organization ideological unity and dominance hence monol linguis was fostered in Spanish with ensuing cultural loss but not all was loss different forms of cultural survival ensued of which Generations in which the generation of academic knowledge through research at the University and other cultural institution has not been at all negligible but rather a stronghold for the Reconstruction Revival support and development of indigenous languages literature and foremost indigenous peoples all this is known and shared by many countries including New Zealand in my time as a graduate student in the 80s New Zealand was the site of the most exciting transformations in indigenous education it is very likely by the same token that academics and students in New Zealand saw with interest the linguistic claims and educational proposals of the zapatista movement in chapas Mexico which started 20 years ago my point is to stress that the conversation about languages in New Zealand and Mexico we start today has antecedants that go way back with many parallels and intersection and still many basic questions are unresolved and always debatable monol linguis right to one's own mother tongue accompanied with the right to appropriate uh the dominant dominant tongue and in principle any human language compulsory education in Native tongues for all the population positive discrimination to support access to higher education of linguistic minorities different education for different linguistic groups the conversation that we will have here is informed by debates in society and should go back to society academic knowledge has specific contributions and Communications allow us for new venues for its circulations allow for new venues for its circulation I celebrate the initiative and wish it will be the first of other encounters on behalf of the institute for philological research I thank the organizer of this interesting initiative and express our interest in exploring different ways of collaboration I wish H this next two hours will be very productive and I welcome you even if it's virtually to Mexico to our time zone and to our very bright uh Scholars who will be speaking to your Scholars or to you Scholars and I'm sure this will be we have a very interesting turnout thank you to all thank you very much Dr Alvarez and this is the end of the opening ceremony let's move on then to our panel number one and I would like to introduce Dr Pablo Ramirez who is the coordinator of this activity this was originally his idea thank you Pablo for all your work during the last months Pablo is a is a researcher at the University program of studies on Asia and and Africa and the the floor is yours please you um thank you Dron thank you Dr Alvarez thank you Alex for for your um words uh we're very happy to be here today to talk about the revitalization of indigenous languages both for the from the perspective of Mexico and uh New Zealand um as we already heard from uh Dr Alvarez The Experience from Mexico is very different from the one in New Zealand um New Zealand has ter Mai as as only the only uh indigenous language uh we have 68 indigenous languages uh besides Spanish so it's it's the the perception and the strategy that the governments have used to try to revitalize uh indigenous languages has being very different but I am sure we there is a lot uh we can both our countries can uh learn from each other um and hopefully in the near future we will have more people uh in Mexico speaking indigenous languages and it will be easier for them to actually use uh their own language anges in their own country because sometimes it is very very complicated to uh for them to use it in everyday uh yeah conversation everyday Ed so today in this first panel I am very happy to have uh from New Zealand Dr Karina Edmunds um she is mar from a New Zealand her tribal affiliations are T now uh apanui andati pero she has a PHD ma in Applied Linguistics Bachelor of in education Katarina graduated with her doctorate in Hawaii and Indigenous language and culture revitalization from kakaa oani College of Hawaii language at the University of Hawaii at Hilo in 2008 uh she was a director of H huari Mai Mai medium programs at the University of Oakland she's presently employed at the University of white cattle her wide and vared network extends from grassroot learning to Academia haut to Global indigenous peoples she has had a wide variety of roles in Mai language revitalization including being a mai language commissioner of the mai the mai language commission Kar shares theair for towards their treat of white Tangi settlement she believes that indigenous voices and ways of doing are key to the rization of our worlds and from Mexico uh we have Dr lilan Guerrero she is a researcher of the indigenous languages seminar from The Institute of philological research atam she earned her bachelor degree from the University of Sonora a masters in linguistics and a PhD in linguistics from the state of New York uh since 2006 she has been an active member of the national research system level three since 2020 and has been honored with PR the Level D since 2024 her research LS are primarily focused on the description analysis of Mexican native languages with a particular emphasis on uto AA languages spoken in northern eastern Mexico her areas of expertise include the study of morphosyntactic structures syntax semantic interface and possible pragmatic motivation in simple and complex Clauses voice valency transitivity and spectral properties of predicates she has authored 10 books 23 papers and 45 book chapters published academic presses uh she has also conducted individual and Collective research project with national International funding has t over 50 courses and supervised a doz of undergraduate and graduate dissertation and finally our third expert on this panel is Dr Rodrigo Romero who holds a bachelor degree in Hispanic literature and language uh and a master degree in his pnic Linguistics both from mam he earned his PhD in linguistics from the State University of New York in Buffalo uh since 2008 he has been a level a full-time researcher at the indigenous language seminar attached to the Institute of philological research atam he's also an active member of the national researchers system level one his expertise are grammatical description and documentation of mix languages which are spoken in Waka and belong to the mix shoke linguistic family same family as language that was historically associated with the Alx his PhD dissertation a reference grammar Guide to the mixed language spoken in auta was the very first published grammar guide of a mixed language from Waka so thank you very much all of you for being here today with us um sorry my first question for you uh today would would be uh which are or were the main challenges in the process of revitalizing native languages in our contemporary societies so Kina hi k um if I may uh in New Zealand we have a traditional um a tradition of uh acknowledgement first and I'd like to take care of that first please for um just just an acknowledgement first of all um to our cultures that bind us together to the our cultures that connect us and also to our indigenous languages our ancestors um and the lands on which we meet um and the indigenous peoples of Mexico and also of uh New Zealand as well K thank you so much for the privilege for us to be here with you sharing some thoughts today and um and I'm Ben and I will be playing uh tag we had we met very quickly after our last meeting and agreed um that we would um have a tag session here um and Ben just jump in when you can um and I hope I don't take too long um so I'm going to um actually share with you um some slides just to uh contextualize um where we are thank you for the introduction I'll get into that now I'll just share my um screen with you oops oh what's happening right okay so here this is um you heard the introduction I'm from this is um my ANC our ancestral house he said I just wanted to make sure that you get a sense of who we are and um as you would have got from Ben um our culture and and certainly listening to uh both speakers before me three or three of you that uh our cultures are really critical to to our being our very being so this is my ancestor Raa on our ancestral house that represents an ancestor and to the right here I wanted to use this um graphic um representation of it's called a AI is a stingray and I can tell you I I came to Mexico earlier this year and one of the first um things I saw as we walked into the hotel lobby was this fade this stingr and I thought W I must be at home we're in the same place but this fire there's a story attached to this story um to this fire this stingr um about how this heavenly being comes from the heavens um and she brings with her to um Stingray um and on she comes and she ensures that we have these Mar these Gardens of of food whether they be Sea from the waters um all our aquifers or whether they be on land and she ensures that um our lands are full of bounty so that her people will survive it but on her return she decides she's done all her work and she returns to the heavens and um she takes with her she actually sorry she instructs these two F these two Protectors of our people who we call Kaki to remain and look after our hapu our subtribe um as she's going back she hears these steps and she stops and she uh realizes that one of them has followed her and she instructs it to go back and she turns it and returns to her qu to go home and it follows her so she turns it into stone and we still have that picture of this well not a picture the stone is a similar resembles a a stingray in our River it goes down to our Mar to our um the places that sustain our people um and so that that uh stingr way is has been frozen in stone in our River and the other one actually takes care and and our people will tell you and they truly believe this that every now and again and my brother even this um the stingray that was remained in the sea um tells them when to get out of the water that it's a bit dangerous so I just wanted to share that and contextualize us a bit the story that I'm going to our story going to talk to you about okay so here here's this this um here I am from this little you can just see my the cursor here um I'm from this little place here where this f um and this um this um Celestial being came down to help after our people and I and and to put into context here this was um how land was when the um settler um European settlers arrived in Al in New Zealand and you can see how black or dark all this is and gradually the loss of land and I must I need to say here that the loss of land from our people from AI um parallels the loss of language as well so I don't want to talk about these statistics too much but um except for you to have a look at them I'm actually going to come back to them afterwards um and but I just wanted to put this contextualize where we are and where I'm sitting although I'm sitting in in Hamilton City right now um this is where I am from and I regularly go back there excuse me so let's go to the next one I just want to talk about this so that it gives you an idea on how of contextualize the um challenges that we have faced and thank you so much for um mentioning them uh earlier so that we um we do have a lot of um lot in common so here I'm I'm going to really talk a lot about um how Graham Smith and some of you I'm sure most of you will have heard about Graham Smith and Linda Smith um and he talks about what was the biggest challenge for Mali and this is where as I'm going back to our question now the biggest challenge was held to conscientise our people in order to transform so the words I'm taking are really um grams they're not mine um and in summary we have the the colonizer arrives the Treaty of whang is signed and that treaty establishes a former British pres here in Al in New Zealand with idea being to protect all Tonga all MTI Treasures um and and as as already pointed out the the assimilation the colonization processes certainly didn't um mean that things got better for Mali or we were treated fairly um and so I won't go too much in that we we're all very clear I'm sure about that process um so here we go he talks about how historically maldi are colonized and assimilated into European culture and I will pick up some of these points later excuse me and then the church and education uh system um brings significant agencies for cultural assimilation so you kind of wonder what was the agenda there what were the Mali agenda at the signing of the treaty what were the colonizers agendas and as I've already indicated land land was an important one and if I went back to that um uh map that I showed you you'll see how gradually whiter and whiter and whiter um the land became which means as well as assimilating us there was The Taking of land at current today um no surprise to you that M are the wor statistics and health education imprisonment and wealth so Graham talks about um well we are very proud and and certainly I truly believe that the M language revitalization has been absolutely critical to um the changes that have occurred and the revitalization of our language he talks about the language um really that the he thinks that the biggest Revolution was in Mar critical thinking and the realization that we Marty could make the change ourselves and I think that's the biggest challenge and for me that remains the biggest challenge is that we take our people with us uh or that they pick up and realize that to be critical in their thinking and and that we make the change and not have change done to us all the time and he calls this Copa M Theory and it is really about Copa can be a theme or an idea uh but it's he contextualizes it as kop Papa Mii Theory and there's certainly been a lot written about Copa Mari from all of us who are involved in this multi language revitalization and it's the he talks about uh practice taking 20 years so from practice to practice sorry yes from practice to practice uh took 20 years and if you think about it I'm just going to show you a few more uh another slide after this um we're 40 years into this mod language revitalization movement so you can we all know how long it takes so critical I think the really the main idea I wanted to talk about what was one of the the biggest challenges and continues to be the biggest challenge today is to have our people take uh move forward and make the changes ourselves um and here we go the powerful ability to mobilize M Community resistance and to develop transformation given we were so thoroughly assimilated um and continuing with those um here's this again his copap Revolution from conscientization so it's making us aware uh of why we are like we have why we're the worst statistics in the country why our children are taken away from us why the M language uh is lost but critical to that transformation was the M language and its revitalization and so here we have he talks about I'm sorry moving along changing um and it looks at how M alternative education initiatives I'm a teacher educator I'm an educator I've been my role at the kangar the language Nest which I'm sure you're all familiar with um W and I my partner we sat here we were the the janitors for the toilets every Friday afternoon that was our contribution we were both working and but we were very involved in the um Kang movement but in a practical way we went along every Friday afternoon to do our share for the grandchildren and ours was usually the Friday cleanup um however it we do what it takes um and it was about educ ation changing to serve our needs so grahe came up with these six principles of practice and you you'll know these I'm sure self-determination or relative autonomy being able to determine who we are what we are and what we will do validating and legitimating cultural aspirations and identity and he talks about this a lot the validity and legitim legitimacy of ter Mali of the Mali language um incorporating uh culturally preferred pedagogy um mediating socio economic and home difficulties it was and that was really about helping our people get get over the the difficulties that they were experiencing um in an economic sense or whatever was going home so that when they came to school school was a great place to be and incorporating cultural structures uh to emphasize the collective rather than the idual and and then of course to share our Collective vision and philosophy uh with other peoples um so um I probably taken over more than the um five minutes um Ben um do you want to add some to that please Ben yes I think that um it really highlights um the intergenerational um uh importance of of language revitalizing uh which which I will be covering uh later on this morning in my presentation but just and the um transmission of Knowledge from um grandparents onto the grandchildren um through the um total immersion education system um from babies and preschoolers right through to um higher education so I'll just leave my comments there okay I'll just end the show there as well um and then um is that how we're going to proceed then um at this point yes now um if uh Lilia Dr Guerero or Romero would like to give their opinion on this question thank you um thank you k and thank you for all the organizers of this meeting I'm I'm really happy to be here and share my experience with Native languages from Mexico if I might share a couple of side slides too I don't know if that's possible just a couple of maps that I yes you you should have sharing access [Music] okay now it's possible okay let okay so um thanks again katalina for sharing your experience with Maori I think most of the challenge you mention also applies for for the native languages in in Mexico so thank you very much for your for your Insight in my op opinion as a Spanish native speaker because I'm not speaker of any native languages H but I have more than 25 years of of research in Yaki and other usan languages I believe that the process of preserving and revitalizing Native languages in Mexico involve at least four um main challenge or problems the Fier one is um the diversity of I think this one the first one is um language diversity um in contrast to New Zealand which has only two official languages English and Maori Mexico is one of the most linguistically diverse uh country in the world according to ethnologue and I'm sharing just an illustration here Mexico is number eight in the list of linguistic diversity countries just after Papu Guinea Indonesia Nigeria India and the United States Australia and China um the Mexican constitution as um Alysia and lilan commented recognize 68 official languages organized in 11 family um linguistic families uh but also there are uh Spanish variant cre languages from afro decendent people The Venetian and other Italian based languages spoken by immigrants the Romani spoken by gibsy people and despite the fact that we that Mexico is very close to the United States English is not an official language so the the linguistic diversity I think is the the most um challenge the most biggest challenge in in Mexico to deal with uh revitalizing um activities the second problem is the number of speakers is dramatically reducing around 10% of the Mexican population identified itself as a member of an indigenous Community however according to the 1990 uh census 7.5 um spoken native language um in the census of 20 200 to 2000 it was 7% in the 2020 it was 6% so the the number of speakers is um reducing has said U before now what an Mak Maya languages are the top native languages um with more than one million of speakers but there are languages like chco Kap kapu Kila uh that have less than 200 speakers and languages like AO andano uh that are spoken by a handful of uh people so we still don't know how the pandemic affected the number of speaker for some languages and as we can see in the in the map there are some regions in Mexico that have a lot of um um a lot of native speakers but also with different languages like weo Waka and chapas um yukatan here but in the north there are less um native speakers there are less linguistic diversity so h a third problem is U dialectal variation unlike Mai which is has um little variation if we if I understand skarina correctly the number of native languages in Mexico are is 364 spoken languages or linguistic variant as we call it in Mexico and very few of these languages maintain a certain degree of linguistic uniformity for instance a con the Constitution leaks Le well this in table one you have the 68 and Native languages but this is the the the real number of languages so for instance you can see that there are um the Constitution Le one mixco language but in in reality there are 84 different variants and the same is true for sapot the same is true for naat um for instance for the sapot languages um it has been said that it resembles romance languages some variant share sounds and vocabulary but and may communicate uh each other like Spanish and Portuguese but many others are not mutually intelligible so they don't understand each other as happens with Spanish and Romanian for instance and lastly in order to revitalize a language it is important to document it and use it in different environments most languages in Mexico are still under studied meaning that there there are not vocabularies dictionaries or grammars further more all languages are in contact with Spanish and the most uh common situation in rural rural areas is to use Spanish in school Hospital clinics and most administrative um issues so uh we still need a lot of uh to resolve a lot of challenge know to to in order to to preserve and Revitalize our languages so that's my comments for for this section I'm sure Rodrigo has more comments about it yes snash sorry I'm not a native speaker of Spanish but I try to to start with a little bit of of me he the languages study thank you very much for for the invitation and I will share also a few slides so I'm going to talk more or less about a m languages which are spoken in in this part of of Mexico in the southern in southern Mexico and the state of of Waka and particularly in this region of the State M languages are not very well known because they are not as famous as atic or or utas languages or zapot or Mayan languages but they are the descendants of the allme civilization which is called in in in meser as the mother culture they invented the mes American writing system and the M American calendar and many other things and just to complement what lilan just said oh sorry other slides so these are the the the this is the the Mok language family and and I work Mo mostly on the M branch of the family and particularly I what I know more about is about these two communities in opposite sides of the mik region where I conduct a field workor and now to complement what Lilian said this is the the the development of bilinguismo linguis in Mexico for the past 90 years as you can see ER in 1930 there were a more bilingual more a monolingual speakers in any in a indigen language in Mexico than bilingual speakers but then the situation soon reversed and nowadays there are few a very few monolingual speakers of a indigenous language and of the speakers of a indigenous language in Mexico most of them are bilingual and in general I I'm not supposed to most of the the monolingual speakers are Elder speakers and there is this funny thing here in this graph but I think what it it represents is that children start to speak their native language at home then they go to school and there is a huge pressure for not speaking their language and so the numbers of monolingual speakers drop and then as we go into older speakers there are more monolingual speakers in for any indigenous language in Mexico and this also shows but this doesn't exactly show that I didn't have I didn't put want to put too many graphs but what happens is that if you want if a people want to go to to a university they absolutely need to speak Spanish it is not possible to go to high school ow to a university if people don't speak Spanish so there are supposedly some a primary schools in bilingual primary schools but they are in fact or they were developed originally in this system in which the idea was that children go to to the to school ER just speaking their native language and the idea was that they gradually change from thetive language into Spanish and so the situation I think for most indigenous languages in Mexico is that the mon the the monolingual people are elders and as I said I'm not opposed to to people being bilingual of course I mean bilingual trilingual Etc but the problem as we'll see now is that ER in Mexico not the the Biol linguis is I think a phase between just speaking a native language into just speaking Spanish and this is a graph not the the first graph was the for the whole country and this is a graph for a just the the past 50 years in the M area and the the trend is more or less the same there was were more monolingual speakers and now it has dropped to to less than 20% but the main problem I think is what we see here and this is a graph just for one of the the towns I was talking about before this aut and the situation here as we can see is that originally all like a century ago all people were bilingual monolingual speakers in M then gradually more there were more bilingual speakers and nowadays there is actually a few more monolingual speakers in Spanish than in m so as I say the problem is that the situation I think is this that uh there are fewer monolingual speakers in in any indal language I mean this is the graph as I said specifically for but I think the situation is more or less for many indal languages and the situation is that the the numbers of monolingual speakers drop then there are more bilingual speakers but then people tend to speak less ER even though they're bilingual they speak more Spanish than their native language and finally they are just B bilingual speakers of a SP just a Spanish bingu speakers and it I just want to make a few remarks here and first of all is that it is necessary I think to acknowledge that this linguistic shift has many sociol linguistic so sociological and economical causes and in general linguist can do little about that and it is probably a sad situation and we are linguist do not want to speak about that because we would like to to make many the to many actions to to revitalize the language but I think that it is necessary to acknowledge the sociocultural socioeconomic reasons behind that and in many cases i' I've conducted a linguistic surveys in the M area particularly in these two communities that I was talking about and when we talk about M their native language they talk about Community they talk about how they belong to that Community there are many emotional links to to speaking their language a cultural link historical links but when we shift to Spanish when we when I asking about Spanish they talk about opportunities they talk about being able to study they talk about being able to work and so the reasons for be for speaking Mia and the reasons for speaking Spanish are completely different and even though they of course feel a deep connection to the their their language and to their ER culture at the end of the day the day if they have to speak Spanish to work to eat to study of course they are going to to to speak Spanish and we cannot blame them we cannot blame any family members parents for for wanted I mean they their parents don't want to to teach M to their children anymore and we cannot blame them for that because of course they they they want better economic conditions for their children and if we think what are the pros for for speaking M it is belonging to the community and basically being able to talk to to all their family members when when those grandparents die there is no more pressure for speaking their language there is a little bit of social pressure for speaking m in Social spaces but not so much so I think the main the the main ER obstacle for for revitalizing the language is to create the need for them to speak the language and I'll talk a little bit more about that in in the second part but I completely agree that one absolute necessity is to have a total immersion education system from ker Garden into a a higher education it is not possible at all in Mexico it is not unfortunately not the situation that it is starting to happen in New Zealand or what we see in in Hawaii when they are like completely Advan compared to us but I think that we we need to to go into that direction I just conclude saying again that we need to to create needs for speaking for reading for for writing in their language and not just having a emotional link to their language and probably I talked about more than five minutes sorry thank you Dr Romero but actually this is really good because uh it kind of connects with our next question question which is what kind of role is played by indigenous communities educational institutions media and governments in the reincorporation of languages in countries like Mexico and New Zealand so this really goes uh hand in hand with what you just mentioned right like how how can we reintroduce them uh these languages into that uh Karina do you want to start can you see me so um K again um that was really interesting and you're so right that we they need to have a purpose for speaking and fortunately for us um and there's the Mari all our dialects were mutually intelligible even though there are slight differences like we' been come from um that we we use f they use her and then in taranaki there's a glal so so it is much easier for us from that front because of our language being mutually int intelligible across the country um but also there is we're seeing that our students who have been through M immersion or learning it even if they've just learned a little bit of Mali at secondary school or primary school they are outdoing their peers who are only in English um medium context so we I have to say that for us the social the social show the economic context is a plus for um for speaking Mali and we don't have all the languages that you have it in fact it's awesome to see so many languages and yes the reality and that's what happened I'm sure to our our grandparents our parents in the past they were driven by economic necessity and the belief that had been inculcated into them that um the way to go was to speak English the way to go was to drop your culture um and and hence that there was that big movement there but um hopefully you can um I'll go back to this presentation and and talk about some of the things that I had identified sorry I just click it through to get there um a bit and here again talking about this um major the big revolution as grah pointed out was um oh sorry it's going hiden Steve let me go back a b um so here the question was what kind of role is played by the indigenous communities and educational institutions can you see the slide Okay Okay cool so what I've done is I've gone back to um to to sorry one more just go back up one more so you see here uh just a brief overview I don't want to um read it all through but if you just glance down that you can see from 1816 with the establishments of the First Missionary school um in the Bay of Island that's up the north of our country and then what my big point at everywhere I've been speaking at at different places over the past year with different allegations have that have come through the big idea what's coming through is um especially we have a change of government that we need to be politically astute and and why all our people need to be politically as stute and be aware um of what policy does What government policy does and we can see here assimilation policy introduced the N native schools act it sets out and what constitutes legitimate knowledge uh for Mali um and and look at this one where we have to provide the land um and the government buildings and teachers but we also have to pay for part of that teacher we W go and English is to be the only language so you can see why quickly there's this demise of thei it's forbidden and so on you would have heard this story many times um it's deemed no loss to us uh English increases um and then World War II comes along and you see uh the the death of our people and originally i' I'd call this um I this presentation about the loss what the loss of our language but I won't talk about that here and what are we educated to be the laborers um Homemakers and so on and then then there's this huge shift for us to if you want a job if you want to survive economically you moved to town all our families did this so what's happening here and not only do you move to town your pepper potted like a Tak a pepper shaker shaking about and you are placed in communities where you are isolated uh from your um communities I'm just going to share this is my partner wer we both involved we've both been involved um I don't know if you can see both been involved in this POA um as a young man this H report that comes up took his mother lives in NTI Pro and a very small community and he's told by the mar a fierce person if you want a house today to his mother has told you moveed to the big city Oakland but he couldn't get a house on his own land so the whole economic thing is happening um and he's sitting here you might have seen him was sitting there and I'm sharing this with him um because we're both sitting here and both interested this is our world so here we have this H report um where um Malia to be integrated assimilated um and so you can see by 1900s that t Mal has fallen from 95% to 25% so that the quick demise of T Mar going downhill by the 1960s and the 1963 uh and 1963 um we're all working most of us are working in cities certainly my parents generation and now only 16% of Mari school children can speak Mali so can quickly see by these these numbers um that how quickly the language can die and and then coming back to the main point of this part of the panel um and so I'm sure you can see oh gosh this keeps jumping around sorry I want you can see so the rise of political activism and this is I think where we've taken um the bull by the horns and decided we will make decisions about who we are so we have this group called nat and they Lobby they they've been living in the cities they realize that they can't speak Mai so they start lobbying for the introduction of it into schools and you can see and I've gone and edit I didn't have as much information on here until last night where I I've added and you have this whole political activism going on 1972 which really wasn't that too long ago um and then and then the critical one and interesting I had to look at what how policy is made and we have Richard Benton who worked for the New Zealand council of education research he conducts this big social linguistic survey and it tells us say that the MTI language is in Rapid Decline and in danger of Disappearing drastic measures are required and unfortunately that gets goes public uh we we ourselves realize just how um endangered the land languages and and also policy makers and government is beginning to see this so some changes begin to happen and you can see how teacher training schemes happen we start seeing having celebrations like MTI language week uh we had television for five minutes one uh once a day um but look at this by 1975 less than 5% of Mari school children can speak Mari um and so here's this beginning of this education movement the first Bilingual School in New Zealand um a petition for recognizable presence on television and so you can see so what were the roles played by these people and let's make no mistake it was about us activate becoming activists and making sure and fighting and arguing for this and I know the situation in your country is quite different to ours but it took this kind of activism to wake us all up so this is you all heard about the um the first the K the language being established radio broadcast so the role of the media becomes important and critical today in all sorts of forums um we have movies in Mali and but it takes a lot of energy a lot of political activism and so you can see and I tell my students this all the time that they need to be politically astute they need to understand the role of policy um in order to make sure that our language um is maintained or it survives so you can see how it becomes legislated as an official language in New Zealand actually even before English and here more education acts so our could M these our multi medium schools and our multi medium T um um schools uh educational in institutions are established and then here we have in 1999 which wasn't that long ago where the education Amendment act actually recognizes formally these these institutions then we have a multi language strategy so almost every tribe in New Zealand has a multi language strategy um there is a Formula if you like or the what is required in in making coming up with a MTI language strategy and then here we have the multi language commission um Al so I think it somewhere here somewhere up sorry let me go back up to 1986 so y 11 every white tongy treaty claim has a number and and this is when we become so active and remember we signed the treaty and we had our the M version that was that all M Treasures were to be taken care of and were ours and of course we know that that didn't happen and you can see the Takeover you could see the Takeover land that I um in that earlier slide so y 11 is white Tang claim 11 and this is about the Mali language and how it was guaranteed as a treasure under article two of the Tre why think the treaty of whitei um and there's a lot of debate going on about whether we're fighting to retain that um so um this is what it recommended legislation the use of Mar in courts of law W sitting here is an interpreter the establishment of the M language commission um and then now and then we get to the point where it insist that all children may learn to their Mighty doesn't matter what color your skin is that you may or learn M and these M medium context are formalized uh it's recommended that this happens broadcasting policy and we all know the power of media whether it's and look at our kids today I mean I I can't keep up with them on the phone but there's television there's broadcasting and so on and so these are results of Y 11 y tongi uh treaty claim number 11 and and these are some of the outcomes so Marty becomes recognized as the official language MTI medium education is formally recognized in An Education Act um oh look I've doubled that one up multilanguage strategy oh sorry 1989 it's recommended by 1999 took 10 years to become legis ated um there's a multi language strategy and so there is a multi language strategy that we have here in Al or New Zealand and there also in education there uh um to my is a strategy document that points out how educators can um help Mali achieve as Mali not sadly having to take on the characteristics of the colonizer or anyone else but how we can achieve as M and and some of you may have of Mason de's work in this in this area um so we have a multi language strategy that is a formal document from the government and then by 2016 the the um the ACT is there is a push an initiative to change the act and and so the to F becomes the crown arm two arms if you imagine we have the M language commission but now the Law changes it so we have the multi language commission which was the to which I was a a commissioner at one time um that became the crown um so and B again took about the crown arm so the crown arm makes keeps the government um makes it conscious of what it should be doing and then we have the Mahi um the mat this one here is the the arm that takes care of the people and ensures that initiatives are put in place for the people to have opportunity excuse me to acquire language to use language to develop culus um and so on and then by um so we have we already have up here these various M immersion um uh context established and by 2017 we have another big movement where uh Kura are tribally affili affiliated um schools so I just thought that was and that was my response to the role played by indigenous communi educational institutions the media media is critical I hope some of you have watched some of Tao White's movies where they're all in Mali um and we've just had another one uh another different kind of movie put out that talks about things openly about history openly and we now have a um a New Zealand histor um multi histories curriculum that is all about this kind of thing that I'm talking about um okay so there we go and uh and a nutshell uh be you want to add to that yes thank you um I just wanted to add a little bit around so Kino was talking about the two arms on the one hand you've got the Mali um efforts uh to revitalize the language but the crown the New Zealand government also recognizes that it has [Music] um uh responsibilities to fulfill under the Treaty of whang in um revitalizing the the the Mii language and under the M language act the ACT recognizes that um the caretaker role for the M language sits with Mari but that the crown has an obligation to support Mari in those efforts and so what we call the Mahi Corona sits together with the mahi Mii to create that house of Mari learning and the M the Mahi Corona the the the crown side of um that effort um has a number of audacious um goals that it has set three audacious goals so number one is that by 2040 85% of new zealanders or more will value um T Mii as a key element of national identity so that first one is about changing attitudes and changing perceptions um about t Mii number two um is that by 20140 1 million new zealanders or more will have the ability um and confidence to talk about at least basic things inal Mii um and so that's planting the seed and it's it's it's helping it's nourishing that seed of to M capability to grow across New Zealand and then goal number three is that by 2040 150,000 Mari age 15 years and over will be able to use tidel Mii um just as much as English um so that's that's that's the government's strategy um for revitalizing tto well thank you Ben and Karina it's actually very ambitious if you take into account that uh New Zealand has 5 million people so if you want that by 2040 at least um a million 20% and so I'm just saying that um you can see Ben is sitting in front of a a meeting house an ancestral meeting house so the M are the two arms that go down and so that is the one the represents the um here you go he's pointing it out so those two m one is the government the crown arm and the other the E arm so that that's represented that's how the M way is represented Dr do you want to answer the question from your side thank you and thank you Karina and and um my i l and then for your for your intervention and um at least for the for the languages from Mexico as we said before the official recognition in in 2001 of 68 different languages implied at Le in paper that all Native languages as well as Spanish will have the legal equality Language and Cultural and education rights public awareness and use as well as institutional and legal support however given the linguistic diversity which just mentioned H before it it's really really hard that the Mexican Government can deal with all the language that are spoken actually so very quickly has an example um with my experience in the in in Jai so um so I'm going to share very quickly the situation regarding the educational system in in in Jai Jai is a OS languages spoken in the northwest of Mexico very close to the border with the United States in actually there are some Jai speakers uh that live in the in the states in Arizona and jais from Mexico and from Arizona communicate each other and they have they can travel more or less easily in in the in the Border um and they communicate in in Yaki because Yaki speakers that live in Arizona aring in in English and Jackie speakers that that live in in Mexico are Bel lingual in in Spanish so the only way that they can communicate is in in in in Jai there are allowed around uh 17600 um speakers in in in Mexico and less than 1,000 speakers in in Arizona so I work with the community in in Mexico and um there are very few of adult monolingual speakers most of them are bilingual or more or less belal so um so few pictures of the community this is a a regular living area in in in bam the town I work with this is a typical house some um cultural uh representation that and my parents the people I have been working on for more than 25 uh years so um in the late 70s the government published several public um textbooks on indigenous languages including Yaki however they basically correspond to the Yaki the native language translation from the Spanish and basic textbooks and they involve content that wasn't relevant or wasn't yeah it wasn't relevant for the communities so in in many Jai communities children learn Jai has a fierce language in their home and they learn Spanish as uh soon as they got enrolled in kindergarten or elementary school so has happens in most bilingual or by cultural schools in Mexico has Rodrigo mentioned before that teachers didn't use um Jackie has a language of instructions they usually use Spanish because they are just Spanish speaker or because they uh speak a different Native languages because the the government has a a policy that for for for bilingual teachers to move them around and to put them in different schools and different regions depending on the sonority or depending on the anity or other other um issues so most of the in in the 90s most of the the teachers of the bilingual schools didn't speak Yaki at all so the teaching was basically in in Spanish and um and the textbooks were irrelevant so they were useless so uh for some parents this was okay because they wanted to that they children learn Spanish rather than than their own language because they I said before they want them to have more opportunities in their real worth so um however years later the community got very worried about the situation because they thought they they realized the language is going to be lost because the children are not learning the language and because the teaching is in Spanish so they started motivating uh young members to prepare hasb lingual teachers has lingual professors and and they Revis the the the textbooks they propose changes and then the government very recently also um revised the contents of the of the bilingual of the the indigenous um textbooks and I think nowadays most young childrens in the Yaki communities receive a decent um education Bel lingual education and in fact and this is a very I think it's a very good news um the fierce University of the Yaki people was just opened uh two years ago and in this University City and all the students the professors as well as administrative workers are native speakers so and they are trying also to look for um professors for the for the the programs that they speak the language and all the content of the of the careers of the programs of theal programs are thought in in in Jacki and I think this is very important and it's a very good step to to preserve the language um for Jackie there is not an television or writing newspaper on the language but there is a radio station connecting three us languages that are related and they are very close in the in the region it's Jacki mayo and gu th despite our legal framework uh and more positive bilingual schools uh there are many educational gaps since there are schools that still prohibits the use of the native language in the classrooms and there are regions where Bel lingualism is not promoted but banned and prohibited in favor to Spanish and also I think more native speakers are needed in all professional areas to give to gain visibility and to promote linguistic diversity as well as a major representation in public spaces and and media so to to to answer the the question of this the the later question I strongly believe that any linguistic policy um that doesn't directly involve members of the community um will hardly success so we need to work very close to the members of the community they needs and they um the resolutions to to preserve the comment and Revitalize their own language thank you thank you Dr Dr Roo do you want to give your opinion on this yes I mean of course revitalizing indigenous languages in Mexico and given this complexity of many languages some of them spoken for several thousand people some of then spoken for just a handful of people is a huge Pro undertake that we we have and we have to address that that it is not as simple as making everybody to to study naad or or Maya because that that wouldn't work but I think that there is a hidden problem in Mexico and I would say in many Spanish er er speaking countries which is the false belief that that people either speak one language or the other so it is not explicitly said or not often explicitly said but in many cases it is in the background that ER for for many policies or for many political decisions that people either speak Spanish or the native language and so of course parents teach Spanish to to the children not me or or any other language because if they teach them both languages they're not going to speak properly Spanish so I think the first thing that we have to address is the this false belief and we have to to tear down the the this idea so speaking an indigenous language is not a a threat for for Spanish or it's not a threat for for for Mexico as a nation and as I said it's not said explicitly explicitly said in many cases but we when I as I said when I conduct these surveys it is obvious for many people that that they it speak one language or the other because people say like I'm not going to teach M or my kid because I don't want them to speak Spanish with Mi M accent and and and the same is is is true for for a in other places and when talking about bilingualism in Mexico what usually comes to mind for for most people I think is speaking Spanish and learning a little bit of English or French or German or other European language and there should be a change toward a bilingual or rather trilingual policy in Mexico I know it is not possible right now but I think we should we we should H work in that direction and also we must demand that the national and state governments take more actions for creating the necessary conditions for the indigen languages to be spoken not just for because usually people talk about promoting the use of of a indal language but that could be just learning a few words in in in in in M or in naat or whatever or just writing down a few things in the native language but that's not the effective use of a in the Indigenous Lo language as a means of communication and we have to to try to to to do that to to to create the conditions for the the the use of the indigenous language and as I said before it is a dream right now but it is necessary to work toward having a educational system in which the digital language is the the language of instruction uh completely immerse in system and there are few like Regional universities or or yeah universities but the problem is that people use Spanish not the native language as for other institutions like the UNAM or other higher education er er systems or schools it is also necessary to Pro provide more sources for ER hiring people for that work on the documentation and the description of indigenous languages given the amount of languages spoken in Mexico we are just a handful of people trying to work on theoretical aspects on documenting the language on writing gramar writing dictionaries and probably just one people per language and it is not enough and even we are not working on all the languages spoken in Mexico right now and I'm not talking about the but in general in all the universities in Mexico but also as linguist it is important not just to work on a creating like papers that we submit to to journals or writing grammars that are useful for other linguist but also to create the resources or the materials that are useful for the communities also I mean that's why I also that necessary to hire more people because we are probably are not able to do everything at the same time but we have to keep that in mind that we have also to produce a materials that are easily ER or that are useful for the communities and I also I mean we talk about the the linguistic policies at the national level at the state level but it is also necessary to talk about a linguistic policies at the community level and I think we have to emphasize that more for for the communities like demanding School teachers that speak their language because as lean said in many cases the the teachers either they don't speak any indigenous language at all or they speak a different indigenous language it is also necessary to create a after school spaces to teach the language to Children ER in general not given into the social pressure to use Spanish and I'm just GNA end with a funny example in which a few years ago the the local communi the local sorry the local authorities in quatang one of the the towns I work on they submitted all the paperwork to the regional government written in mik they went to the office and said look we demand this these are our needs and all the the the paperwork written in me and of course the the other authorities were like but we don't understand that and they say well I mean we didn't understand Spanish at the beginning but we had to learn Spanish in order to deal with you guys and you also need to learn M or hire someone for you to understand this language because you also need to do that and those are the kind of of of policies that are needed in in all the communities and I'm concluding with that thank you very much thank you Dro uh it's it's interesting because um I think that from the pandemic U to today um at least in my I study music part of of of what I study is music and um I have seen a lot of young people indigenous young people in Mexico create music in their own language so um there are like um yeah communities in the state of chapas or even here in in in the state of Mexico that sing in naat in toil and they use rap they use metal they use punk music as as as a way to transmit the their message right so uh even though I don't understand anything at all uh what they're saying uh I see that they are actually getting a following now and one of these bands who is actually from sudat Nessa a very marginalized area from from Mexico City is actually touring uh around the world it's going on tour uh in the USA in the US uh Europe so so you you can see that there is also interest for for for this kind of of messages of music no so um there is hope that we can Revitalize uh our languages although we we might not uh get to the point where we can all speak a little bit of it but at least to give them the opportunity to those who speak it to do it freely uh and and use it in in their everyday life here in Mexico um so I would like to also invite um all those who are watching us um to to send us their questions so so we can uh start um closing this panel this has been very very insightful to to see and compare these two different uh experiences between New Zealand and Mexico um I think that yes it is an advantage uh that New Zealand has to to only have ter um as as an indigenous language because it's it's easier to focus on only one language family for its revitalization Nationwide uh instead to have multiple fragmented uh communities all across uh the country as we have and uh also to have well now uh from what we have seen in in uh Dr Edmund's um um say timeline more than 40 Years of of uh policy and and uh and strategy to revitalize it so we are just doing H our baby steps and learning from the mistakes as as Dr Guerrero pointed out that sometimes we did the government did some content that maybe was not as appropriate for some indigenous languages and they had to correct that and we're getting there we're getting there uh I I guess I I am hopeful that uh we will see more media more uh I don't know at some point maybe even I was reading not so long ago that now New Zealand has even a news presenter that is Maori with the traditional Moco tattoo uh presenting on on National Television so we we don't have that yet so hopefully one day we will have uh our our equivalent on on Prime TV but uh we're we're getting there um so thank you I I don't know if uh we have some questions on the chat I have never used this platform before so I'm sorry it seems like isn't so I would like to thank you all for your uh participation in this first panel um we are going to start the second panel in maybe five minutes we can we can have a little break uh van I don't know yes apparently no there there is someone an Maria there is a question sorry I cannot see it yes Anam Maria I think you can just open your mic please ah yes now I see it okay ah great thank you so much um so um where is this other thing can I can I use a video no yeah well where is the other one I mean don't worry it could be either yes yes so so So Co anaria inoa and K dear Karina edmon I I did my PhD in tuna wananga had the pleasure of meeting you there and I am from Mexico and did some studies in in the region of qu Salan and there was a long elaboration on additive um on additive uh subtractive bilingualism the perspective that sees sees bilingualism as disadvantage as a disadvantage when an indigenous language is involved which is the prevalent view in Mexico right and um it would be great if we could try to change that perspective to an additive bilingualism perspective the one that can see bilingualism even if it's not with English or another main European language as an advantage but um I think I think it has to do with the problem or perspective and a change of attitudes and and of course it is quite complex but I'm wondering if if the presenters have some ideas on what could take um the Mexican scenario from this subtractive bilingualism perspective or View to a more additive bilingualism in perspective or view when an indigenous language is involved Dr Romero Guerero anyone wants to answer the question is I'm sorry an Maria nice to meet you the question is what we think about a different kind of bilingualism if it is with a different with a IND indoan languages of or with a native language yes well there was a long elaboration yes about the perspective that is prevalent in Mexico that sees bilingualism as as a disadvantage what bols an indigenous language which is subtractive bilingualism right that's known as subtractive bilingualism and and usually when you are bilingual in Spanish and English for example well that's seen as an advantage that would be additive bilingualism so I think U following from this this this elaboration that they made I think what would be very important would be to change little by little the perspective of the subtractive bilingualism to an additive bilingualism when it's an when an indigenous language is in but how could we start to change that perspective and I know it is very complex but I was wondering if some of the presenters have some ideas as to what can be done I'm just going to give you one example in in the UNAM in our institution the students needs to prove for for to get a degree on The Bachelor the master or the doctorate they have to show they know a different different language and they have to to to approve some test so in the text in some some here so they have to show that they know English or French or another language but if they are native speaker of an of a of an indigenous language this language doesn't count so I know that I know that yeah so I used to work I used to work at the unak Mexico nor for many years and I know that sometimes you need English just to complete your major which is totally wrong but I was wondering if you have identified this prevalent view in Mexico which is so wrong how do we move little by little although it's a complex problem how do we move from this perspective of subtractive bil bilingualism to one that is more positive well I think that if the UNAM and other universities recognized and as a second language this is a big step so I it would be but do you see it likely but what about this I think it's more possible every time know as soon as we get more and more students native native speaker students I guess that University is going to recognize that you City too so I guess I I think we are going to touch to that um situation sooner or later that would be great thank you if I can just um give my um thoughts on that question very good question um and I acknowledge the contextual difference um between New Zealand and Mexico um New Zealand only having one indigenous language but from our experience the government and Mii or your indigenous people need to come together and need to work together owledge the importance and acknowledge that something needs to be done and that's really your starting point um I guess let let me correct myself though like even without the government like from our experience we just did what we needed to do as a people here in New Zealand like when we talk about kangar um that started with very little um substance very little funding very little resource um and we just got it off the ground and sometimes if even if the government um isn't coming along it's quite important to to keep pushing ahead you know obviously if the government can join in in Partnership and support things will move a lot faster but um uh off the true just grit that's the only way that I can explain it is grit and determination of our ancestors to just move things along um and then my other point is it's a gradual process um for us here in uh Alor it's taken 50 years to get us where we are um and that's off the back of the efforts of our um grandmothers of our grandfathers an Maria an Maria you remember um remember you I think one of the things that we really need to do is is promote our young people particularly because they talk about it and one of the things I didn't and I was just I realized it while uh we were wrapping up this this part of the session was that um the cultural thing to to mat the the cultural Festival that our kids our students at Uni will give up the first week of uni to participate in their cultural festival and we've got it right across the country now where you've got um if you turn television on or Mar television on you got these kids from kangar from the language n uh primary secondary right through to to the adults they just love it it's their way of communicating uh in their culture it's their way of being part of that culture and obviously the M language has got a great part of it at one point you know most of us could do an action song and get up and do this kind of thing um but not necessarily know what we were singing and talking about um however the our kids today just love it I think maybe one way to make it a um additive and a um positive thing is to to have them and get you know promote them and and say get them up there and whether it's um in the community because they talk to each other they the young people talk to each other and they have um they have all the you know we all know that they bit they're more sty than you and I on the phone um and um and so I think that's one of the things that we can do to make it an additive uh bilingualism rather than negative is that a subjectivism that we um we allow that that whole promotion of it and certainly to mattini this is our whole cultural Festival um that this is where you see these these kids are young and old they they just love it they compete highly to be there um whether they get to get to the finals or not but I think that's one way and they get to Value that in order to be part of those groups that they really need to use um M language um k k Karina that's a great idea thank you Ari yes and as you said I mean that that's the question right I mean how to change that that perception and I think that I mean there is as I said a false ideology about M or or indal languages and Spanish but as you said not for English and I think in some cases it is necessary to point out to that disparity like I I when I conduct the surveys I also talk about English and they all have a positive attitude towards English and right and I said why why do you fear that your children W won't speak proper Spanish if they speak M but you don't fear that if they speak English and they're like huh that's right I mean so it's necessary to point out to to that disparity but also it is necessary I mean I think we need to address this at different levels so at the higher level I think is necessary also to Lobby to change the this ideology in people in power right I mean because they they are the ones who can dictate the national policies and they are the ones that instituted that policy in Mexico in which children this educational system bilingual education system that was only to replace ER the indal language for for Spanish so we also need to to lobby at different levels for for changing this linguistic ideology but also I think that that could be linked really well to the the other part to to the second panel which is the the role that radio stations music as PA said social media could play nowadays in in in promoting and I'm using the the word promoting now the use of a a native languages ER and slowly change the this false ideology that that that people just need to speak Spanish thank you that also sounds like a great strategy yes yes yes Karina do you want to add something you're on mute okay right now can you hear me now so I think one of the um things um you know what's been critical is that we need to and is what gra was talking about this whole conscientization that we need to have our all our people understand that this was done to us we didn't just give it up and that so that we um we need to to take that thought away that that it can't be done that it's a positive thing so bilingual is a is a positive thing towards becoming maybe monolingual in our in our chosen and languages but I think for me that's a critical part in everything whether they the young children we take our Co hung children to some protests or whatever it's been beginning to get them to think about um why are we going here and I think it's for them to understand the history of why it is like that and then they can let that go and move on from it so that was I think that's really an important part of this whole journey thank you Karina thank you Ana Maria for this very interesting question and with this we actually are right on time to close the first panel um B now you are in control for the second panel thank you very much everyone for your comments for your participation and it's been very very insightful thank you very much Pablo and all the speakers as well as the participants with your questions uh so let's take a a break of uh 10 minutes please and after that we'll be back with the panel number two voice H the future of native languages in an increasingly connected world the chair will be Professor Serio ianz so let's H come back please in 10 minutes H hello again let's let's please uh come back to our webinar we will start the second panel okay and I'm very happy to introduce Professor Sergio ianz from The Institute for philological research he is a deputy director of this institute at UNAM and he will be the chair of this second panel uh professor Serio please the the floor is yours thank you very much B it's a pleasure to be here in this very interesting dialogue between New Zealand and and Mexico I think there's been a lot of interesting points and topics in this first panel so um I want to to say hello everybody and welcome you to this second Di in panel which continues with the topic of native languages from New Zealand and Mexico and this second panel addresses the future of native languages in an increasingly connected world as Marshall mlan said several years ago that we are leaving now the times of the global village where we are in an electronic environment of social social networks and virtual communities which have changed substantially the way people communicate and interact with each other the big question in this new Global context is um if this context promotes that the multiple communities around the world use their own languages or increasingly promotes the use of the so-called International languages which indeed are very few some statistics are that nowadays there are about six or 7,000 languages but that in 2100 or 2100 there will be around just a thousand of languages in fact actually 96% of the world's population speaks only 4% of the languages about 2 million people speak only eight languages Chinese English Spanish Russian Hindu Bengali Portuguese and Arab so it it will be very exciting to see if if this new context of uh Technologies and this new in this new um Global Village there will be an opportunity for all communities to to appropriate their languages and use it in a more wide way or the the situation will reverse this this this opportunity it seems like the the new environment promotes the unification of role models and and and promotes the the very most uh visible uh cultural models are the ones that privileg Prevail and not necessarily are promoting uh the cultural differences or we have these uh two sides of the coins and there it will be very interesting what to see what L Flores and Ben Matthew have to say in this respect but let me first introduce this our two speakers and and and first we go with lucera Flores she was born in clala uh very near Mexico City she's a native speaker of Nawa and an specialist in Moro morphosyntax and documentation of this language n specific from tala and Rafael Delgado which is in verac Cruz she earned both her master's and PhD degrees in Indo American linguistic from csas and spend an academic State at the University of California in in Santa Barbara as a Mexican visiting full bride scholar she has also spend a postdoctoral state at The Institute of anthropological research here at Lam she has the Leal lectures on Linguistics and Nar languages Lang language courses at the autonom University ofala at and the univ Verana the University of verac Cruz she's currently working on a project titled nonverbal closes in lascalas nagu a descripted and comparative study here at the Institute of philos philological research at Lam she has collaborated with the Institute National the language indigenas in Al and with the inano indigen uh she has formed level C research at the anthropology Institute of univ Verana but she is now a level C Associated researcher at the indigenous language seminar here at the institute for philos philological research at lunan she has been war with the best doctor dissertation or PhD dissertation in linguistics price from enam and the the perill disable Bret honor she's an active member of the K National research system and thank you to be here luo I now introduce you to Ben Matthews which is a graduate of the Kanga Rio and Kura kuapapa Maori ments of Al the total Maori language education system then brings with him native fluency in the mai language in depth understanding of Maori customs and traditions experience as an English Maori language translator and his certificate in Mai orator from Wanga an indigenous institution of Higher Learning and she has and he has sorry experienced teaching the mai language at the bank level Ben Holz Bachelor of international business and Bachelor of art degrees from Oakland University and a masters of international relations and diplomacy from the University of Canter breu drawing on the case study of the Maori sea food sector Ben's master degree visitation I am the old ocean the ocean is me Mai's sity and Wanship in the ma sea food sector tackled the challenges facing Maori in the pursu of sovereing and guardianship over the their Fisheries Ben's final dissertation was award the highest grade and as such Ben sh the top three position in his entire cohort cohort his career over the past 12 years has weol around Maori Economic Development with both a domestic and international Focus this has include Maori interested in the primary Industries trade policy International relation and indigenous to indigenous Corporation so thank you very much Luc and thank you Ben for being here and um giveing you the the word for presenting you yourself please go ahead [Music] spe naal well I well now I will translate it I will to I would like to speak only hour but you told me that is necessary to translate it into Spanish but then you told me that it will be just in English so I will try to hear me now you can hear me you come go ahead yes please L well I began interv my intervention with a greeting in now or Mexico the language that I speak I literally told you what does Your Heart Take how are you and I also told you that I my name is lucer Flores Nera I'm from plala and I speak now or Mexican and Spanish and just a little bit English now I'm living here in Mexico City because I'm working at National autonomous University of Mexico in the Indigenous language seminar of the institute for philological research I want to greet all the people who are listen to us through social media and who are interested in knowing the situation of the land of New Zealand and Mexico in my case especially now it is a pleasure to be here and I'm very happy to meet you and to share personal experiences about the future or of native languages in in this increasingly connected world and Mexico is the one of the countries in the world with a great diversity of indigenous languages some such as ethn says that there are 282 languages and other such as the national ins of indigenous languages report that there are 364 linguistic variant variants of dialects which in terms of the law must be treated as national languages regarding to the number of speakers it is reported that there were about 7 Millions which represents only 6.2% of the total population ation these uh uh these numbers these figures are already fully alarming but we must consider that many times the number of speakers is even lower than what is reported in the sensus as for now what this is the the in with the most speakers in the Cil I was it has agreed intern internal variation to the point that there could be different languages despite this now shows a tendency toward work displacment and Extinction in different places particularly the generations of young people and children in many cases no longer speak the indigenous language for the reasons we say that in Mexico all the cultures and Native languages are at risk of disaar this don't this doesn't mean that there are no to reation are being carried out from different angles to try to conserve spread and Revitalize indigenous languages this effort must be collaborate and involve all those in all all those um the government through its institutions Society in general and especially the communities linguistic planning arises from and for the communities finally I want I would like to highlight the word that colleagues are doing to spread to spread and conserve their languages adults who meet with children to transmit the language and filter knowledge those who are creating poetry and music in the language those who are teaching others to read and write the in their own language those who are carrying out dig digital activ using new new technologies to conserve the language to all those who are speaking to their children in their NE language so that so that so that they never forget the language of their ancestors thank you luo then please give us your your comments thank you I'll just share my screen can you please let me know uh once you can see my screen there you are thank you uh um I just begin my uh introductory comments um I know that the focus of of this panel is is forward focus and future Focus for me it's important to look back to help set the scene and um fire Katarina has shared some of that context um and I just want to add um to the context that she Set uh you may or may not know um that in 1835 as uh European settlers started to come into New Zealand um that Marty actually um said up a declaration of independence um known as um and in a nutshell um the Declaration of Independence um declares to the world um that Marty saw themselves as an independent um uh an in independent people um and this was actually um recognized and acknowledged by um the the British um crown or or the British um sovereignty back in the time and so we refer to the Declaration of Independence as the Elder um to the Treaty of wangi which was um signed five years later and so if we look at the Treaty of wangi um Karina is is uh shared with us that under the Treaty of white Maria guaranteed um sovereignty over their rights um in this in these uh introductory remarks I just want to share more of a personal um story so these are my ancestors um on the right hand on the far right hand side we have uh teruki kwiti um he was a formidable uh very dedicated very committed leader um in the far Northern area of uh the north island of New Zealand he did sign the Treaty of waitangi however um following the signing of the Treaty of waitangi when um a lot of the rights of Mari uh were starting to be eroded um he stood up and he said enough is enough um I will not um allow my rights to be trampled on I Am The Sovereign of this nation I Am The Sovereign of my people um and so he led his people into Warfare um with the British crown and um that led us into the the land Wars um of New Zealand here and in the Years following um we see an erosion of Marty rights in relation to their language and relation to their land their culture their identity um these are my um grandparents they were born and raised in a very proud and a very um proud Mari Community um on their homelands in Koh which is again in the far north um surrounded by their culture surrounded by their language um and their identity as Mar um but they had to move they moved into Oakland which is um one which was our largest city here in New Zealand um for employment opportunity um but with that urbanization um comes a loss of language and a loss of culture um these are my parents my mom and my dad and my father even though was mty he was not raised as mty um his parents spoke mty um but they did not um transmit or pass on um T Mar to my father and so my father was of the view that in order to get ahead in the world you must speak English there is no value in speaking Mari my mother on the other hand you know she had she spoke to the mighty and she was very proud of her Mary language um she was of the opposite View and my father didn't want us kids to um go to uh Marty immersion preschool and Marty immersion school um so earlier in my parents marriage they had this conflict going on um but my mother won and we went to Kang and we went to kurak papam Mari um that's my mother um on the right hand side in the back and she's holding myself that's me as a baby and so I was born into the kadil movement um kadel was established 1982 and you can see on the little sign board there in the front there that that was that photo was taken 1984 I was born in March 1984 and so I was born into the movement I didn't realize it you know at the time when I was child but I was part of a movement um of a Resurgence of a reconnection of of our language and so I am a I am a grandchild and I am a product um of K of the kangar movement um so these are some of the photos of um my farno my family um so you can see that very much we are very proud um to be Mary very proud of our um identity and our culture um um just two weeks ago the picture on the bottom left hand side there is me with my nephew um he participated in a Mai language um speech contest that was organized by the mai women's Welfare League um and he came first um and so he will represent white UPA um at um narua which is the seat of the king movement in um in the white in November um and so you can see that we are very much very proud of of our heritage um and so this is me my wife and our two boys um and for me this is my um succession plan this is my succession plan that I have received this knowledge from my ancestors it's now on my shoulders to hand that knowledge and that um pride and that identity onto my future generations and uh I'll leave it there um for my introductory comments thank you thank you very much ben um let's let's go to our first question which will be um what has been the impact of the new technologies on learning learning teaching processes and the development Pro promotion and revitalization of native languages from Mexico and New Zealand and what do you have to tell us about that please to answer to answer this question I'm going to focus on the positive side of using new technologies for the learning teaching processes and the development promotion and revitalization of the native languages of Mexico especially now the first point is that in 20222 I thought a online now course due to the covid pandemic this course was cond conducted through the University of Verana to students from different areas of knowledge many of them were training as doctors nurses Engineers among among others the course was really difficult because it was not a dynamic that I had experienced before and communication becomes more difficult through computer screen despite these conditions I can say that the students were very happy to learn a language other than than English or French and above all because it represent a great achievement for them to learn a language that is in risk of Disappearing and this part of their Community Regional and national identity having the to the digital platform a loing students for different places in verac Cruz to take the course if the course have been in person surely many of them would not have had the opportunity to learn a little bit now the relevant thing about this course are the results and I want to share with you that one of the girls who took the course wrote to me and told me that she is already a medical intern in and is providing her service in an a community in the Sierra of Veracruz she says that the knowledge she acquired in the course has helped her a have a better relation with P patients and to be able to speak to them to greet them in their own language and to better understand the way they conceive their body and their illness illness it is certain that she didn't provide them with medical service in now but she did provide a service that takes into consideration cultural and linguistic diversity the second positive point is that the access to a cell phone has also created an advantage for the dissemination development and revitalization of the language I have many friends who are organizing and carrying out meetings for conference and talks through Facebook mostly and um for now topics of both linguistic and cultural relevance are disused for example literature in indigenous languages is disused poems are rated the importance of woman women's rights in the exus from the context of the community and topics are also dis discus about the relevance of digital media for the conservation of our language on WhatsApp groups of colleagues who speak and write the language of different parts of Mexico have created this space to interact to each other with this this Dynamic has helped to be in contact with other variants of now in addition to using the language both orally and in writing and also one can be informed of community social and sometimes political events that concern our language and our future on YouTube and Tik Tok many young people are making videos about the use of naat in everyday context this has brought together many young people not only from the communities but also all those who are interested in a as a second L that that seems to be a great experience so thank you very much for what you just share so what about you then what have you to tell about these experiences in Mai please go ahead can you hear me can you see my screen as well yeah um so for us here in Al sorry oh just not yet not yet yeah um so for us here in ALA um when we experienced um the covid-19 pandemic um many more um opportunities for um online courses online courses to learn um to Mii um were made available uh these allowed um people no matter if you were a like because you weren't able to attend um in person um you were able to attend um from a distance from home or from from anywhere and these really allowed um Learners to access language lessons and cultural knowledge um and expert guidance from anywhere in in New Zealand or throughout the world and in New Zealand we have tan Al which is an indigenous uh Institute of Higher Learning um and they offer uh tid Mar courses that attract both people here and uh overseas and so these Technologies enable um the preservation of traditional knowledge oral histories um and also stories in digital format um we also have the emergence of multilanguage apps so apps are being um developed to help um people to learn to De Mai either at home or in their spare time um offering interactive tools for learning um and one of these examples is an app that has been designed um in the far north region of of the north Ireland um where it it helps people to um Master pronunciation correct pronunciation um of to Mii um and that when you can get the pronunciation right I think that it helps with your confidence levels um because um it's just doesn't sound too good um when when when when the pronunciation uh might be a little bit off but we encourage and we work with um and help and support um people whoever they might might be to to um to master the pronunciation um also the digitization of early Marty newspapers so uh here in New Zealand in the 1800s we had um M tribes um established newspapers um and these are really helpful because they can show us um language structures word use um and you know what was top of mind for our ancestors um at those times and so um these newspapers have been digitized um and many of our students and our young people now use these as a reference um to look at and as they study um to do Mii as well um is it okay if I just share a short clip video clip um another uh thing is social media social media um you know we know that young people uh um all over Tik Tok or all over Facebook um and so it's a really good tool and it's a really good leverage um to help um people to be enthusiastic um about language um acquisition and language revitalization and in New Zealand here we have have um groups of young people who have um uh composed songs and I'd just like to show a short video um of one of those if you can please uh press play on that please Sergio it's about four minutes long so we may not I'm not sure if we have time for the whole thing maybe I'll just show you the first two minutes or I think you I think you can yeah please go ahead okay thank you are you able to play that for us please or is um is somebody able to play that for us from your end please I think um Alicia was going to press play on that for us there's no audio are you there Alicia probably she's not no she's not but she's not the one in charge um who's in charge hold hold on a second please it's one of the program unar just while that's um being arranged for us um this m this music video clip really highlights the power of influence um that our young people can have in um helping to uh lift the spirit of our language of our languages and help to um through their enthusiasm and through their energy um they can help to lift lift people no matter if you're mildy or if you're not M um and that's the effect that that this um song and other similar songs have had here um in Al or New Zealand we can move on okay let's move on and and sorry if if if you hear a lot of noise but uh it seems like the the sky is falling the rain is just so loud so sorry if you bother with the with the noise um okay let's move with with the second question um how do inter intergenerational language transmission practices can affect language survival and please lto if you have something to to share with us about this topic we'll be glad thank you I would like to highlight to points in this question H the first had to do with the transmission of language when we talk about the transmission of language we are really also referring to the transmission of of culture since there are no separate entities the Vitality of a language cannot be conceived without being frame within cultural practices I have a little daughter who understand now now and she's be beginning to speak it it is very difficult to get my daughter to learn the language in a cont text of migration in which all the media and is in Spanish for example the educational system the health system TV books despite all these adverse conditions she's acquiring the language uh in his real use when I give her instructions when I SC her when I say loving words to her when we gossip about other people when she doesn't want her father to understand her and she loves a song that I want to to song now and and we translate it from from Spanish but I will do it now this song she She loves and she thinks with me also I tell her I tell her real stories in now when she goes to sleep and now she's able to to complete the narratives for example I begin saying this history is about people who is able to turn into animals we say we say Naes and I tell her these real his stories in now when she goes to to sleep and the second point is that also much emphasis has been placed on intergen intergenerational transmission generally from parents or adults to their children cultural and linguistic transition is also seen in communities within the same generation in intergenerational group for example many children who don't don't speak the language often come into contact with other children who do who do speak speaking and they too begin to express themselves in the Indigenous language when children play together they use the indigenous language and the indigenous language and fure are transmitted recreated and transformed among them I'm going to tell you that my little girl sometimes tell her friends you know how to say ler in mexic and she's teaching her friends and that's it thank you very much a nice experience the one that you have with your daughter is very nice very nice story then what what can you tell us about this uh intergenerational transmission language thank you I think it it plays a a big role I can see it for your photos and the vide yeah please go ahead thank you um I'd like to speak specifically about the Kang real movement uh which U fire Katarina spoke about earlier um the terminology k um broadly uh in English refers to a language Nest um and when we think about a nest we think about um nurture we think about care we think about support and nourishing and so with that concept um that concept has been applied into the Kung movement um where it's an environment M of care and support wrapped around U Mar children whereby they're able to um be comfortable and um be confident um in their identity as Marty as they learn the language um and in my home I grew up speaking English to my father and Mai to my mother um and later on in life I was able to um pick up the Japanese language so I am fluent in Japanese um as well and so from my experience when you speak more than one language it's actually easier to pick up more languages um and the kangar movement was established um in response to a rapid deine in uh the MTI language um by my grandmother's um generation in uh 1980s in the early 1980s um and so it's an immersion Center where um our our children our grandchildren are immersed um in the values in the cultural practices in the beliefs in the language um of our ancestors um and the concept is is that we have our elderly our elders come in to support um the parents who are often um running the kadel centers um and so even that right there in that picture you can see the multi-generational um approach that kangar takes um and when we think about the legacy of kangar [Music] um though those children who went through kadil um in the first stages are now in their 40s 40 early 40s and so they have gone on to become um Builders lawyers doctors teachers nurses um diplomats and so this movement I know has also inspired indigenous peoples um in other countries as well including um Canada uh Hawaii there have been discussions with Inu and Japan um and also the indigenous peoples of Taiwan as well and I'm pretty sure that there have been discussions with indigenous peoples in Mexico um at one stage also um in terms of the current status today uh kangar really is a story of resil resilience and determination um you know although there have been challenges there have been ups and downs in relation to um a number of different challenges kadil has still come through and and it is today it is what it is today because of the um sheer grit and determination um of our people to move move the copopa or to move um move the cause forward um and that's what I just wanted to say under um just also in my own experience with my own children um my wife is um a second language learner of T Mii so I was raised in t Mii my wife it's a second language learner uh she's a second language learner of TI Mari so she struggles a bit so more on me to help her and to help you know um our children um but that's an investment that I'm of time and energy that I'm definitely willing to make thank you thank you very much Ben and and this takes us to the third question which is very related and this is uh uh how does language re revitalization contribute to to the preservation of cultural identity and how can we transmit cultural identities through technology and you you have talk about this uh uh in terms of the videos and in terms of radio stations and but what else can you say about that for example about the transmitting the cultural identity of n speakers and through the through the media through the media yeah thank you before is not possible to conceive of linguistic rization without it involving the revitalization of fure cure and language must be understood as Dynamic and Inter subjective that is that I created in communication and change over the time human being adapt to new living conditions we find words to describe new things we use our language in new context we learn new cultural practices we transform everyday practices and so so by using language we are resisting conserving and Transforming Our cultural practices even in context of cont with a majority culture and language which is the cas which in the case of Mex spish I will quote the words of Miguel when a language dies uh when a language dies div things Star sun and moon human things thinking and feeling are no longer reflected in that mirror when a language dies everything everything in the world seas and rivers animals and plants are no longer to to up nor are they PR with glimpses and sounds that no longer exist then a window a door is closed to all the peoples of the world a different way of looking at even and human things at everything that is being and live on a when a language dies its Words of Love intonation of pain and affection perhaps all songs stories Spees prayers no one will be able to repeat what they they were when a language dies May many have already died and many many died mirrors forever broken Shadows of voices forever silence Humanity becomes impoverished when we talk about cultural revitalization it is not only about revitalization those discourse gener of speech registers that are that are being lost but also about exploring others in which the language was not present in other words it is about revitalizing for example ceremonies ritual speech registers prayers ET and so on but it's also about exploring for example other R other genes such as Ro Car Technology media the use of technology is allowing the creation of materials videos and obious through which this cive generous and cultural practices that are being displayed or that have been introduced are transmitted thus the use of this media allows the creation of Lo listing spaces that can be disseminated to many young people and children through different media and platforms finally I want to show you a video that I made for um uh now community in Veracruz that is an example how to transmit cultural identity through the use of Technology but that I have the permission to do you can see can you see there we can see it yeah for e e e e e thank you thank you do you want to add something else or that's it Ben please what do you think about the if language re revitalization is uh instrumental in in preserving cultural identity and how cultural identity can be transmitted through the media please thank you um I just want to also um invite fire Katarina if she has anything to add sorry I should have brought you in earlier um uh one of my ancestors um uh by the name of uh Sir James henard um he shared a famous quote that says uh which broadly translated into English means um the language is the life essence or the lifeblood of of Mari identity and when we think about language language is not just about words um spoken or written language carries knowledge language language carries wisdom and traditions um and history of our people um and so revitalizing our language means preserving our stories our Traditions our songs our rituals um so that these can be handed on to Future Generations um also for Mari TI Mari is is kind of like an umbilical chord that connects us and ties us back to our ancestors um it also ties us to connects us to the land um that we live on um also handed down from our ancestors and So speaking speaking the um language of our ancestors creates that D direct link link back um also speaking to the Almighty can um help to um provide Community cohesion um and pride and you know when we think about when Mari people think about the all black the All Blacks our rugby team um you know whenever they go International they will always begin their um game with the hucker the traditional mty dance and um our New Zealand teams at the um Olympic Games you know they would win where um the cway cloak or they would sing Mary songs and so culture was very much at the Forefront of um New Zealand's representation internationally and that provides a sense of Pride and a sense of um belonging and tying us us back to New Zealand um also language carries um values ethics and morals um yeah and I just wanted to open up to you fire um if you wanted to add anything can you hear me now okay I just wanted to yeah go ahead please Kina I just wanted to add one of the um things I won't go to the slide we talked about cop and I don't this is not to be morbid one of the things that we're fortunate to have we actually we really celebrate our loss our our people when they pass away so we have real authentic um context if you like where we actually can play out traditional and contemporary and even future kind of thinking about how we think of our people and so we call these a Tang this is when we um when we grieve and um for those who someone who might pass away so that that is a real authentic context and I actually believe it's one of the reasons why we've been quite successful in our revitalization because um if you imagine that building um behind bin and when we take our people there so that we can U fear well them you see the um formal traditional um things about our culture happening in real time real life um and also within a contemporary situation where things are changing all the time and certainly with Co Just Happening um and still present um I just wanted to say what that is something that we are very fortunate to have others very very authentic context where we we come together as a people where we um share historical knowledges and I'm just reading from my side here shared Capital generated by Faro and it's actually embedded in real life experience um some of those so we can bring all that traditional um way of speaking formalities and informal um activities to into play and um and and actually they have a lot to do with our lives when we celebrate um the passing of someone and then we let them U move into their new realm um and then we also come back to the living and um and Ben can talk about this how in um especially when men speak um we we mourn th the those who have gone um gone um departed our world and then we actually celebrate and U move into the living world a as it is today and look into the future so um I just thought that while we we were watching that last clip and I was thinking about how very lucky that we can still play tradition out in a very everyday context um and I thank you for the um opportunity for all this thank you very over to you s thank you Ben thank you Luc time for question we have just a few minutes so someone wants to ask something please go ahead yeah there are two questions in the Q&A right by Maria um who asks can you make some comments on potential ways to promote collaboration between elders and young people to enhance the impact of language revitalization efforts in social media yes I think that with this question um I think that it's important to help um our elders to first of all become Savvy uh with technology um and then you know there there awesome opportunities to um to have our elderly share um sound bites or to you know share some quotes or to share some advice on language revitalization on platforms like Tik Tok or Facebook for example thank you um and her second question is how do you reconcile the times contracts contrasting views of Elders and young people on the use of indigenous languages in modern music either in the community or in social media whoever wants to take it I'll hand to Luc and maybe Katarina might have a comment too we celebrate each other I think um my M my M are now 31 and I still think of them as babies and obviously they're not I think um and we have a lot to do with the elderly so I think important thing is to celebrate um all of them and we have a a big thing going on now about the mapuna generation and these are the beans of the world who've come up through kangaru and then and also as Ben mentioned earlier the the role that um grandparents and the elders had with with the cor hung so I think it's um having everyone present and and having a real valued role in the whole thing okay or questions it's not okay I'm going to thank you very much to Ben Matthews and Professor V Matthews and Professor Luc Flores and I don't know van if you want to add something else for saying B it's been a a very very interesting talk for in this topic so if you want to add something thank you very much thank you Serio for your participation and of course Professor all the professor participation I would like also to say thank you to all the authorities that remained online during the whole Activity thank you very much Dr lean Alvarez Dr Alisia hon and Alexander hartsmith also to the rest of you who stayed online we hope this is the first ER webinar and first conversation of many thank you very much we we will be ER releasing the the the recording of this conversation during the next days we will let you know so that you can spread the word thank you very much and H see you next time bye-bye thank you thank you byebye thank you bye