hi there and um welcome are we are we're going hi welcome thank you so much to everyone who's joined us today for our virtual panel the cost of shopping online I'm Rebecca plevin a staff writer for the LA Times I come for Equity as part of an initiative funded by the James Irvine foundation in this role I explore challenges facing low-income workers especially in the Inland Empire and Central Valley and efforts being made to address the California's economic divide in the next hour we're going to talk about our online shopping habits or more specifically how our online shopping and our desire to have products delivered to our doorstep as soon as possible has had a dramatic impact on workers communities and the economy here in California I'll be speaking with three expert panelists who will meet in just a moment we'll leave plenty of time for questions and you can submit your question by clicking on that Q&A icon on the bottom of your Zoom screen um but before that I'm going to send it over to Don Howard president and chief executive officer of the James Irvine foundation for opening remarks Don hi Rebecca thanks and welcome everyone to this event really glad you could join us as Rebecca said I'm Don Howard the privilege of serving as president and CEO of the James Irvine foundation for those who don't know us we're a privately endowed Foundation independent of any company or family and we focus entirely on California we have a singular goal a California where all low income workers have the power to advance economically this year we'll provide about 160 million in Grants toward that goal I want to thank the Los Angeles Times and Rebecca for hosting this event you know journalism plays such an important role in Spotlight critical and overlooked issues this panel focuses on a pressing issue for California the types of jobs created by the warehousing industry and the impacts of the industry on workers and communities in the Inland Empire in Central Valley these regions face many of the same challenges that other Inland communities have and their many assets represent the promise and future of California these are issues we think a lot about at mind one out of every three Californians is paid a low wage many lack benefits control of their schedules and any advancement opportunities even worse too many workers face unsafe and unhealthy conditions on the job and they're afraid to speak out in fear of tell it's just not fair and it's not the California we want or need we need more Equitable paths to the middle class that's why I'm so grateful we can support organizations in the Central Valley the Inland Empire and across California that are helping low-wage workers to protect their rights advocate for better jobs and ensure our economy works for all Californians we also want to understand from employers how they can create and grow good jobs in California that benefit local communities so we're excited to support at the LA Times and having this timely conversation and I'll turn it back to Rebecca from the LA times thank you Don now I'd like to introduce our panelists shahariar kosi is the executive director of the warehouse worker Resource Center a nonprofit organization dedicated to improving working conditions in the warehouse industry in Southern California he has spent the past 10 years supporting workers and communities affected by the warehousing and Logistics sector of Inland Southern California including helping to launch the resource Center's Innovative campaign model to organize workers in the supply chains of the largest companies around the world Matthew Mana is executive director of the Inland Empire growth of Inland Empire growth and opportunity ieo is a regional network of leaders from business nonprofits higher education and state and local government working to grow sectors that can create promising jobs for Inland Empire workers and students he's responsible for growing and managing this Network in building strategies for sector-based economic development Daniela Vargas is a community advocate and architectural designer she has firsthand experience with the impacts of large- scale warehousing and industrialization in the Inland Empire having lived in the unincorporated community of Bloomington with her family since childhood in recent years she has witnessed a dramatic shift in her once rural community which has rapidly become a Transit heavy hub for distribution centers and another reminder that we'll have time for for questions at the end of the discussion you can submit your question by clicking on that Q&A icon on the bottom of your Zoom screen and with that let's get started so for all of the panelists I want to ask you what was the last thing you bought online jarar will start with you so I um I just checked when you mentioned this um I think the last couple of things I purchased were a bookshelf and a Black Sabbath t-shirt which tells you a little bit about who I am Matthew um mine was dog food and dog toys and Daniela yeah so my last purchase was actually a t-shirt uh with a graphic from one of my favorite movies everything everywhere all at once awesome and so as three people that are in intimately familiar with the Inland Empires role in e-commerce I wonder how do you feel about buying things online and I also wonder whether you're advocacy and work has changed your um consumption habits in any way and any of you can jump in on this one yeah you know I'll start um you know I I as uh a parent I I actually had my daughter three months before covid um and so shopping online wasn't just something fun to do where it's a one click um it's it was actually a necessity so you know I through my work it it hasn't changed my my habits very much I think in terms of like where I shop it has changed that um I'm an economic developer and so I I really uh I really do try to focus on shopping if I do online it's from americanmade goods and so it's a way for entrepreneurs to have a larger customer base instead of just trying to buy things that are cheap um you know I try to make sure what I do and and what I purchase is responsible cool yeah and goe um I'll say that my advocacy work has actually really influenced where and how often I shop so I know that so much of our economics has been built around like virtual shopping online shopping and it's really convenient but I in Instead try to prioritize shopping in person and shopping used so I find myself in a lot of like thrift stores swap meets local shops um and I would even say like my last my latest purchase and is an example of like this internal framing of having um online shopping being a last resort option so I spend a lot of time looking for things and if I can't find it in person it's my last like option um so my career I've been working as a researcher and organizer in in the labor movement for almost 20 years some of the work I did before I was working on warehousing was around food and I think in that experience I realized like just how systemic a lot of the problematic not just labor practices but also um you know Health practices are and it was a little bit exhausting because when you're talking about food right like what are you trying to do to avoid the the worst condition so a lot of time it's it's really thinking about systems right like individual consumption does have an impact but only um to a certain extent so I think there's certain amount of like yeah Lo local shopping I think that's absolutely right but I I think there's also like a question like consumption patterns and and guilting folks isn't actually the solution um building power among leaders to to change systems is so um I try not to feel guilty and I don't think you should either also if you're purchasing try not to do the um the one day two day shipping that does really make workers run run pretty hard compared to things that take a little bit long more time little more time that's interesting so you think if there's if there was one easy change to make it's to avoid the The Rush The Rush shipping cool well that's that's a that's a really good takeaway I think um Daniel I want to um talk about Bloomington so for people who don't spend time in the Inland Empire it could be hard to imagine what is like to see neighborhoods transformed by the logistics industry you live in Bloomington which is an unincorporated Community it straddles the 10 freeway um could you describe the changes that you've seen in your neighborhood and community over the last couple years yeah thank you for these questions Rebecca um I think my role here today really is to do just that like provide some perspective to what's happening and at least my community um that is being directly impacted by our overc consumption habits um so for over 20 years Bloomington has been my home um my immigrant parents moved our family here really to fulfill their American dream of owning a home and building something for them for themselves and their family so at that time in the early 2000s Bloomington felt rural quiet plaint I would say it was a break from the noise and the traffic of the city um this community was and continues to be majority working class lad with a strong equestrian and like ranch style culture so for my parents and I believe for many of my neighbors this community at that time felt special because it reminded them of the quaint and like humble Ranchos that they grew up in Mexico um people here grew their own food there's a heavy agricultural presence we raise chickens rabbits take care of horses um so I think in more recent times there's been a shift in the community as we've become more and more reliant on online retailers the demand for logistics and distribution centers has dramatically increased increased leaving communities um in the inland empire disproportionately impacted by the warehousing industry and development so Bloomington what was once like this quaint um Community has completely changed and has pretty much I feel like destabilized has been destabilized by over industrialization so we're seeing like these huge Warehouse complex complexes coming in in proximity to neighborhoods schools and Parks we're seeing um much of some of our community much needed housing stock being torn down to make way for these developments we're seeing our neighbors being displaced and moved out um and we're seeing an Erasure of this like rural equestrian culture um all while facing Environ increasing environmental Injustice so with such like a heavy concentration of warehouses in our community um traffic noise pollution and an exposure to contaminants are at an all-time high so we we have like diesel trucks driving through residential neighborhoods and schools and we're breathing all of that in every day without knowing the long-term impacts on our health um yeah wow yeah thank you for describing all of that um how has that industrial growth affected your health your family's health yeah um I think it's the not knowing of the long-term Health impacts so right now we're like not showing signs um but this is this really big hot there's a really high concentration of people with asthma um and personally I well I haven't we've been lucky enough not to have been a part of that group um but we don't know what the next 10 years will look like um with us like breathing all of that like the diesel trucks driving through all those contaminants increase in traffic um but we know that there will be impacts in the future yeah right you're living with that uncertainty right now also yeah um and I wonder if you could talk about with all those changes that have come to Bloomington what has the community received in exchange I know there's talk you know when I was reporting in Bloomington um there was talk of of infrastructure improvements you know that developers are paying for infrastructure improvements as part of their project S I wonder if you could talk about what the community has gotten in exchange whether you see it in infrastructure jobs um yeah um as a community member it's hard for me to see um like the benefits of having so much of this type of development in my community I know I understand that developers and the county really support these types of projects because they create jobs and I have an understanding that Developers are like required T infrastructure like sidewalks and street lights um but that those like so-called benefits seem to only impact their sites and not really the widespread community so I as someone who lives um like a five minute walk from a warehouse am not seeing any positive impacts instead I'm seeing an increase in diesel trucks driving through I'm seeing an increase of diesel trucks parking on streets on residential streets um and the these so-called like benefits which I know jobs are important um and I know that these infrastructure updates are good um seem pretty minor compared um to the larger safety and health impacts in blomington at least to me do any of your friends family work in the warehouses in Bloomington uh yes so I have a sister who actually well not in Bloomington but uh pretty close by a sister who works at one of the logistics centers um and I would say for her this is she is in college so this is more like a filler job just to have like cash in her pocket as a college student um yeah yeah cool U well I think this is a good segue to to talk more about the jobs and the quality of the job so um you know as you were mentioning warehouses have been sold as this job Creator in the Inland Empire and the Central Valley I know that I have spoken with warehouse workers um you know in the IE and in Kern County um who say that the jobs you know offer flexible hours and that they have seen raises um but in many ways these are unstable and unsafe jobs um so harar I want to turn to you first um how do you respond when you hear that a proposed Ware house will create jobs for a community um well I mean there's no doubt that that the warehouse industry has created jobs I think that's that's very clear I think in our region the Inland Empire region um it is one of the dominant sectors employs you know um almost 200,000 people across the state almost a million people so over the course of the last 20 30 years we've seen the transition of manufacturing declining we've seen as we become a more of a supporting Nation the goods moving sector taking over for that and then the last couple of years as e-commerce has grown as retail has shr we've seen more people in the warehouses especially in um fulfillment centers like Amazon facilities and doing delivery because that work that was at the stores is moving into the warehouses and bringing stuff directly to your home so I don't think there's any doubt that the jobs have been created um our analysis and I think it's it's pretty pretty evident to to anyone who's seen this industry growing over the last few decades is that these jobs aren't good jobs um what we've seen is that they don't provide a living wage they are highly dangerous um they're highly contingent a lot of the workers by some estimates maybe 40% are employed through staffing agencies or other meth mechanisms to keep them um in a place where they don't have consistent employment they don't necessarily know if they have um how many hours they have next week or if they speak up at at the workplace if they even get called back and at the same time they're moving goods for almost you know any company but a lot of these people are moving Goods for the biggest companies in the world they're moving goods for Amazon they're moving goods for Walmart for Home Depot they might or might not be employed directly by those companies um a lot of these workers as I mentioned are employed through staffing agencies but they know what the name of the product that they're moving is they know who's benefiting and profiting from these operations and it's not the people in this community um and that's really kind of our analysis is that these companies could afford to do better they can't afford to provide living wages to the workers who you know who they depend on for their Freight to move through this region um half trillion dollar worth of freight every year moves to this region um and again the benefit does not accred to the community either the people who work here or the people who live here so from our perspective um it's you know there's a gap clearly these jobs have been created clearly these people these These are jobs that people in our communities need um and we think that the gap between what these employers are providing and what they they could and should provide is both reasonable and actually something that you know we as a community need to hold these employers accountable to do they depend on these workers they depend on these communities um in order to operate in order to bring these Goods into Market um and the least they can do is is pay their fair share to the workers and also to the communities who um at this point are are bearing the burden really well put um could you describe a day in the life of a typical warehous worker I think a lot of people see the warehouses but don't really know what happens inside of them so um as I said it's you know a lot of different situations as as you know right like the the warehouses move everything from food to apparel to luxury goods to whatever else you know as a country that consumes um mostly imported products um so the the typical um warehouse worker if they're employed temporarily or through a staffing agency um might not know if they have work on any given day they might need to find out the night before or even the morning of their of of the day to see if there is an assignment um and so they have to either proactively engage with their employer um in the staffing agency or the warehouse to find out if they have work or to to hustle to find another agency that might have an assignment for them um and what we've seen is that is a you know intentional way to keep workers in a place where they're always kind of hustling trying to hang on to a job as opposed to feeling stable enough to speak up um so our concern in that situation is even before you get to work you're under stress who's G to you know if I get a job who's going to pick up my kids if I don't get a job how am I going to cover my cost and that's a the dynamic that we see go up and down sometimes as we're getting closer to the holidays it's busier people get called in for extra work and feel pressure to do so after the holidays it's going to slow down and people are going to feel the opposite once people get to work what we see is um you know a variety of of situations one of the things that we see a lot especially in the Amazon supply chain is the use of um rates and pace of work quotas um that really determine the way that you work and the rate at which you operate um and so sometimes these quotas are algorithmic they're very technologized running through a scanner in your hand saying this is how how many times you have to move per hour or how many products you have to move in any given um period of time sometimes it's very old school right it's a conveyor with stuff coming down the pipe and if you're not able to keep up um it slows down and and and people complain um and the boss yells at you and sometimes it's some combination of both right so there's different ways that that plays out but fundamentally we see the quotas as a huge problem because what that does is it puts workers in a position where they have to hustle the quotas are based not on based on the human body body or what we can do as as people but based on the needs of the company and um the question of how fast you move what has that has huge implications on on your physical body on how fast you know you're you're working all day but if you're working at that pace all day and significant number of boxes per hour um you can you know you're much more vulnerable to injury you're much more likely to to make moves that are um going to lead to injury in the short term or catastrophic longer term um injury that builds up over time the back injuries leg injuries that we see all the time we also see that people who are working under quot is just just get burnt out faster they know especially if they're like at an Amazon facility on camera all the time time that they're always feeling like they have to keep moving even when they're going to the bathroom they have a certain amount of time they can you know stop working when they get back they know they have to make up for that time and that's exhausting me mentally as well as physically I've talked to workers who you know can't sleep at night because they're concerned about the way these quotas play out um so fundamentally what we see is workers who are again like working under these pressures that are externally pre creative they're moving boxes or they're processing Goods or they're packaging the stuff that we that we use they're not just always moving boxes a lot of them are doing final assembly those kinds of things um because we depend so much on them the the last thing I'll say is the just in time economy that we now are in has made it even more attenuated um there was a question about why just um why last you know one day two day shipping is is so problematic from my perspective it is because these systems are made to move Goods at a certain level level and they alwayss are pushing to go faster and faster so when you're trying to say okay let's let's get down to two-day to one day shipping um the systems they built aren't made for that and so the way to get around it is to have workers run is to have delivery drivers on a quota where they have to move so fast that they might not stop do a full stop at the stop sign right so these have implications for these communities but also for us um so I think those are the kinds of things that the pressures that we see um created by one or two shipping created by an attempt to keep profits high and costs low um but they're you know again like disproportionately um felt by warehouse workers who are working in these facilities and are kind of burned through and thrown away and then I guess the elephant in the room here is automation because we hear um that automation is you know could CH change warehouse jobs so I wonder you know if and as these jobs are automated um are workers concerned about this transition are they prepared for it are we seeing it already I wonder what you hear yeah I mean um all of the above everyone is um impacted and I think almost everyone in our economy has some understanding that automation is not just coming but occurring it's been occurring in a lot of different sectors for centuries um I think there's been a kind of claim in you know again major Warehouse operations that automation will take us to a point where warehousing will be basically you know employee free um I'm not I don't know how that's going to go I think that's definitely the goal because um REM removing labor from the equation is the most um you know the most profitable move what our understanding is is that that is a difficult transition that um workers are you know companies like Amazon have grown greatly over the last few decade the last few few years in their number of employees um so we want to make sure that number one workers who are working in these warehouses do have decent conditions while they're there and that these jobs aren't leading to a huge amounts of turnover um and that they're is some sort of sustainable career for these workers because this is what we have as as jobs and and people deserve to have sustainable jobs um but when if and when automation comes and it'll come in kind of pieces here and there um that the workers have a voice at work and are able to speak up and in some way negotiate the the terms of their surrender um that we've seen you know in different in different different parts of the supply chain over the years most importantly in the Long Shore area um so that there's some sort of ability to say well if these jobs are going to retain some jobs are going to be retained let's make sure they're going to people from their Community let's make sure they're going to the people who have been doing this work let make sure there's some sort of transparent process for that um there's some training to make sure that folks do get access to those jobs which are likely to be more technologized so that's really the the the the thing I think we should be focused on rather than trying to predict the future is creating structures that will U make it so that if if something like that happens we have a the ability to speak up and the last thing I would say is we also shouldn't buy into an inevitability narrative um people make decisions people with a lot of money in Silicon Valley make very big decisions about where Capital goes and whether it goes to automation or not um and and people in Sacramento have the ability to to weigh in on where the best you know use of of Investments can be as well I think that automation is something that again like if they're trying to automate Trucking right that's something that is is a real problem problem and and public policy should come in and and speak up about that not just because it's dangerous but also because it takes you you know millions of people out of out of work um and I think that is a factor that we should be not just allowing that happen but actually debating in places like this and this is a good transition uh to Matthew you do a lot of work with the economy and so I wonder if you could talk about you know is our economy prepared um for a transition if warehouses do become more automated um is our economy prepared for this sort of transition yeah you know I think that the simplest answer is not yet um I think um there there's a lot of um action happening on the Community College side and other training centers uh which I do believe they they partner with uh local labor um to do some of this training um on our end uh the state has actually invested in a program called California jobs first shahariar is actually um part of it and so it's good to see you um and through some of this work we engage with 500 different residents or organizations throughout dland Empire with the simple question of you know how are we going to transition for the workforce of the future based in equity based in sustainability um and based in uh job quality and access and so through some of that work we we identified a couple different sectors that really play into this density of of supply chain that we have here at Logistics facility ities that we have here and so um you know those are Advanced manufacturing um cyber security and then sustainable technology development and adoption um you know the the first one with the cyber security and and AI technology I think the the best examples are school systems um where they're already preparing for for the from the K through 12 programs um at and Riverside and San berardino both have programs that are pretty robust as well as our community colleges that are taking on some of these skills developments and then um for those of you who don't know um Cal State sardino is one of the top cyber security schools in the country um and so really looking at if we do Transition to this automation um knowing that there is a large amount of individuals that are employed in this industry how do we transition those workers um into fit that kind of mold and so um really I think it starts with the Community College systems and making sure that there's opportunity uh within community and a lot of that is communication and Partnerships with cbos and nonprofits and Grassroots because there's there's honestly no one that does a better job of getting into the community than those than those types of organizations um and really informing individuals on how we can transition to this uh to this new economy um really interesting um sharier I know um Matthew mentioned you're a part of this of this sort of working group also is there anything that you would add to that um I think that there's yeah I think it's it's um really great this conversation around what's coming next is happening and also we we should have been thinking about this for a long time because we do know that these these sectors grow and grow and Shrink very quickly even with economic um ups and downs so when the recession hit in 2008 when you know covid hit in 2020 there are huge impacts on our labor market so I think just whether or not there's inevitable in you know automation of this sector a diversified economy that needs to happen anyway um it needs to be one that does serve workingclass people who don't have um college or High School degrees um because those folks are here and they again deserve to have um jobs to sustain their families yeah you know I just I I just agree with you so much I think um looking at an economy that has just a density of just one industry is never a good idea um when when I first started my career I actually started in finan and really looking at economics as portfolio management and making sure that we have enough to go around that we can actually deal with economic shocks is really an important factor to a lot of this work unfortunately with Co it was the opposite that that helped us through this through the pandemic because we did have this density we those were jobs that didn't go away um what we have seen those a overinvestment in warehousing um which neither here nor there it it is what it is um but we need to transition back to a more uh balanced economy in the Empire uh Danielle do you want do anything to add yeah I think as a community member it's really interesting to hear this like automation plan that will remove I think the biggest benefit of what like developers and the um county is telling us like oh this brings in jobs temporarily and so to hear that the plan is for work for there to be no labor um I'm saying okay so what's the benefit now besides just bringing in more industry super interesting yeah oh go ahead and what we've seen is um land use you know land use is such a huge issue all all over California but the Inland Empire in particular what we have is this you know 12th largest region in the country by population overlaid with this you know Mega industrial operation and they're you know fundamentally um not compatible but what we're seeing now as the the kind of core Inland Empire Basin is filling out is the real NE the areas but where housing and and warehousing are really competing we know we're in the middle of a housing crisis it's getting worse and it's really um you know impacting communities like Community where we're working with folks near the San berino airport where there was a plan to tear out workingclass housing trailer parks a mixed use area and build more warehousing and the cont of again like a lack of affordable housing with no kind of protections for people who are you know facing displacement um so again like it the way it plays out here the way it's playing all communities is fun fundamentally over land use and those kind of decisions are being made without kind of a long-term Vision about what we're going to do with with all this space Matthew were you going to jump in Al there also yeah well you know I think and terms of some of the benefits that this industry has I think um in terms of the workers they're still going to need to have these this automation equipment built or tested um that in term the testing part and the research and development part I think sharar may have an opinion on if it should be done here um but if it's going to be utilized here it should be produced and it should be manufactured in this region and so that's that's kind of the play with the advanced manufacturing p piece and the adoption of the the um sustainable technology piece is that if it affects our community we have to have a benefit um to the Inland Empire because this is where a lot of the the country gets their goods I see an sending us answer all right we have about 10 minutes I think before we're going to go into Q&A um anything else there that any of you would want to add to this this to this topic all right so the next question I want to ask sort of it's it's sort of touches on what we're talking about here but there's um a bill on the governor's desk right now that would prohibit cities and counties from approving new or expanded warehouses unless they meet specific standards um and this bill has proved very controversial um and um um I can tell you a little bit more for for the for our a audience here you know new Warehouse development would need to be located on major thorough fares or local roads serving commercial uses Warehouse sites need to be set back several hundred feet from sensitive sites like homes and schools um it's really generated staunch opposition from environmental and business groups as well as cities and counties so there's a lot of opposition to this bill um Shahara the warehouse worker Resource Center opposed the bill Daniel concerned neighbors of Bloomington and people's Collective for environmental justice oppose this bill um I wonder if you two could talk about your concerns um with the bill so um the story with this bill is that there was initially a you know um a number 1,000 Right 1,00 feet was the distance for um what they're calling a buffer zone from from warehouses to communities and sensitive receptors um and that was the original proposal by um assembly member Eloise Reyes um and then there was a proposal of a short a smaller um amount 300 to 500 feet and then this this year um that whole that question was sent to a working group where that they worked out an agreement and dropped a bill um very many very much at the last minute literally like the last day or two of the session and said here's the here's the deal and it's moved forward and it's at the governor's desk now so um we as a warehouse worker Resource Center um are not an environmental organization but when we first got started um our intent and our goal was to partner deeply with the environmental justice movement our first office was in the basement of the center for Community Action and and environmental justice and Penny Newman the founder there one of the Pioneers in environmental justice in especially here um and I agreed that we wouldn't let labor be pitted against the environment that was how we got to this this point was Labor said we need the jobs especially construction jobs and environmentalist opposed and then we were just split against each other and then the last for the last 10 years I think we've done a really good job at undoing that and reminding people that warehouse workers need to be able to breathe air that um people who care about the environment need jobs and that that the industry is uh an industry that we can change in a way that can change both job for better better for the jobs and for the environment if we work together so the concern here is that you know our perspective is we're in solidarity with the environmentalists and the folks that really um know best because I don't but our understanding is this is going to be impactful on communities that 300 to 500 feet is basically just kind of already the standard and communities that we have and what our concern is it it really does kind of um set us back in terms of now this this has been done if it if it gets signed then maybe we don't get to go back and have this conversation any further also the process was you know again like it feels like in a way set up to exclude groups like environmental justice groups or even groups like the teamsters that are the union that um you know represents warehouse workers in this state so I think like that's kind of where we're at is we stand with environmental Movement we defer to them on on on on these kinds of things but we also think that um the larger our larger concern is that we as envir we we as communities can't be split against each other in this way yeah thank you for that framing um I as a part of the concerned neighbors of Bloomington group um have been we've been working in partnership with a um a local Grassroots um environmental justice team um and we believe that AB 98 um is really just a half-baked bill that was rushed through the California legislator um developed behind closed doors without input of the Cities communities and environmental justice groups working on the ground um so this bill falls short in several areas uh by failing to like adequately address the cumulative impacts of Warehouse growth of truck traffic um failing to set requirements for warehouses under the threshold of 250,000 square feet um which in our communities a lot of the warehouses are actually smaller than that um so these restrictions wouldn't apply to them um and I think our biggest issue is that inadequate buffer or setback of 300 of 500 square feet um that's like a three minute walk um and clearly isn't enough um but basically um AB 98 reinforces the status quo in these communities um locking us into lower standards than we've been fighting for and I think overall this this bill delays like the actual land use reform we need to make and makes it harder for environmental justice communities in the Inland Empire um I think developers feel they're like yeah I'll take 300 to 500 because that's already happening that's the status quo here yeah that's I I heard my reporting that it sounds like in Riverside County the the the policy already is um 300 ft so that was already the county policy so it sort of just um um you know cement the status quo yeah um Matthew do you from from an economic perspective um you know could this bill impact Economic Development job growth in the Inland Empire I wonder what what you think of the bill yeah I mean like all of all of the assembly bills there's there's some benefits and there's some negative things that are impactful and I think really it's about like I said before a balanced approach I think in terms of green infrastructure that it kind of encourages I think that's a good thing um you know but as you start kind of moving down this bill you start seeing that there's things that you typically don't want as a community member I I personally I don't think that um it is beneficial to a local community to just give away their rights to the state to make those decisions when you have planning committees and things that give people a voice and give them Civic belonging um whether they're at appropriate time or if they're not it gives you the opportunity as a community member to say we want this project here um and so there's there's other pieces of it it's it puts kind of a an undue burden on local government um you know things like that that just really aren't really effective for something that like you already said it's a requirement that's already happening for most areas of the Inland Empire um it also there's other pieces of it that could affect not just logistics companies but manufacturers that do pay more um on wages and so there's there's lots of benefits there's also some some STK consequences that we need to be aware of when we're starting to put these bills together great anything else you all want to add on a98 because I think yeah an go ahead yes I'd like to start questions now and thank you to our special audience members for your curiosity and creativity the first question comes from Michael Hayden I live in linol Heights and recently learned that a distribution center is planned in my residential neighborhood across the street from Hillside Elementary on a contaminated site with an underground tosic Bloom already threatening neighbors the city describes the proposed project as quote by right what can neighbors do to protect themselves from this plan and what options does a city like La have to restrict a site use that poses serious health risks to some of our City's most lowincome residents Daniela could you take that question please yeah I think as someone who works through really Grassroots method um the biggest thing that I feel like I would benefit from is having a champion somewhere either through city council um Bloomington is an unincorporated Community meaning we don't have direct representation our representatives are for the county um so it's been tough having a relationship with someone who is championing the environmental justice movement um I think Grassroots organizing and like partnering with your neighbors is really important and making it known that there's opposition to what's happening um but I think it all kind of boils down to how the community can or organiz with someone in in power in the government unfortunately yeah thank you for sharing your thoughts danela Douglas has a question um I contend that the two most negatively impactful words are those tempting terms free shipping with every click it reinforces to purchasers that there are no external consequences imagine if shipping costs were mandatory would say $50 per ton of C q2e and the revenues directed towards climate resilience and Community Resources your thoughts sherar earlier you talked about shipping can you comment some more on this um yeah so I think the the best thing to do would be remind people that California is on fire actually all of the western United States is on fire right now um in a way that I think even when some of us were younger it seems very very different um and that's happened in the context of a global Goods movement sector that is one of the biggest producers of greenhouse gases and is accelerating um so I think that again like we have to think about systems I think that's a really good um policy idea be because it does VIs visibilization [Music] the stuff came from usually Asia and has has a huge carbon impact so I think we need to make sure we're connecting up why this is happening and that there is a need for this sector to transition not just to Green but also to be much smaller we consume too much on a broad scale and it's unsustainable and it's unfair to the most vulnerable people who are impacted um the people who benefit are not impacted thanks for sharing your insights Matt I'm wondering if you can answer Kate's question which is what can you tell us about the balance between full-time employee positions and contract employment What proportion of each type so I can take that one too um yeah or oh sorry Matt were you gonna take it oh no go for it uh I I I did pull that up earlier um uh shout out to Felix on our research team um so our estimate is that it's about 40% of um of of the warehouse sector um in terms of positions some of those workers might not be working you know the full year but something like 30 to 40% of folks are employed through staffing agencies right so that means they're they're they are statutory employees they get W2 but they're not employed by the warehouse operator um and then you know some like 60% are direct hires but that's that's our estimate from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and eded thanks for pulling up these numbers that's really helpful I think this question is open to any of our panelists from avne I definitely hear that guilt tripping the individual online Shopper isn't very productive but it sounds like there are some actionable things we can do as consumers like choosing slow shipping and treating online shopping as a secondary option versus goto I'd love to hear more about what we can advocate for more including good legislation and if there's anything we can do to curb over consumption in a productive way Matt maybe we'll start with you uh sure I think um in terms of online shopping and the ease of it I think buying things that are you just need to buy once for a long period of time is a responsible way to to use some of this online online shopping um I think the on the legislative side um I think really uh putting together a legislative plan that does benefit both parties uh both parties by that I mean industry and Community um you know my my job is really trying to build consensus around what industry wants and needs and what community wants and needs too and so I I really believe that there is a way for us to to move this forward and move the needle forward that helps both workers and community members and Industry um in a positive way thank you so much Matt Nancy has a question which I think is something a lot of people think about and resort to as a disabled senior I utilize online shopping as I am not able to walk around stores and I don't want to impose on family any more than I already do are you taking this into account in your opinions Daniela could you say something about this please yeah um I think online shopping for many people is a necessity and I think um take use it it's very like um convenient and I think I I my piece on being more thoughtful about consumption or for the people that are overc consuming in a way that it's like okay I'm a genz person so on Tik Tok it's very cute to like over consume right like you're buying on Amazon every other day you're doing express shipping um and you're getting like the next best best thing right like the new iPhone I'm getting the next best T-shirt I'm getting the next best blanket um so I think it's being more thoughtful with ourselves about why we need something online um and if there's like another option or an alternative to shopping online so I think broadly my thing is just be more thoughtful about why you really need something and sometimes you don't need it sometimes it's a more like a I need to fulfill this overc consumption crave I'm feeling um so that's just my thing thanks for putting some thought into that answer Daniela Jean asks what are your thoughts about automation replacing thousands of warehouse workers in the Inland Empire developers get their warehouse development approved because they promis thousands of jobs what will this look like for warehouse jobs in the next three years sherar can you say some more um I can try I mean I think we can't predict and I think that's kind of not necessarily our role I I do think that the way that I've seen the industry change is that what the these these operations are are built out they're not going to change overnight what we see is Amazon was able to automate quickly because they built their their system from scratch in the last decade or 12 years um so what we would see is if there's a recession um and a loss of of jobs what I would imagine is that the re the reuptake will be an automation right instead of hiring back up there'll be a lot of employers will reconsider should we actually try to automate while things are slow and try to replace those jobs um while things are slow so I think that's kind of the way that the cycle will work because these companies can't and won't be set up to just transform overnight um I do think that again like Amazon is pulling the system they're the most profitable they're most Innovative so everyone else is trying to queue off of them and really failing um so if Amazon keeps kind of you know beating everyone else up then they're they're going to be incentivized to try to do so but but um it's not going to it's going to be a little bit at a time I think thank you so much Victoria's question Echoes something else that I received as a direct message today and she says I think buying online has reduced social interactions and contributed to more isolation with a society where many people are suffering from depression from lack of social interactions do you agree and to add to that the second commenter directly ask me what tips do you have for us again to be just a more aware Shopper Matt do you think you can uh answer some of that uh I can I can try no I think um number one yes I think there's a huge need for Community um and especially I think when we're talking about in terms of collaboration for solving some of these problems I think that's a huge and really beneficial way to get involved in your community um in terms of you know just being able to shop online and and the convenience I think yeah I mean I don't really know how to answer that question um but yeah well I think George has something really interesting I want to post to Daniela he says the city of Moreno Valley has a designated truck route for warehouse diesel trucks that passes three public schools in their playgrounds what can be done by the public to stop this when our city council doesn't want to yeah so I Bloomington is very close to Maro Valley and I know of like similar issues that we're facing um I think and I think you've expressed that there's no support from city council and unfortunately that's also the case here um it's all about just organizing and showing up at the City Council meetings and expressing your anger and your frustrations um I [Music] think as someone who has been doing that over time it's kind of frustrating because you there's lots of losses um associated with this type of work actually so I think it's just organizing and it's just being out at the community meetings which are at unconvenient times on purpose um and finding like a community that's working or a group that's working within your region on these types of issues I would say Marino Valley I'm sorry go go ahead I would say Marino Valley is an ex interesting example because in the last two years there have been several major Warehouse developments rejected um um by the the city council and Leadership which is something that five 10 15 years ago would have been stunning right um and I think it's because that Community has cut and fed up and hasn't seen the benefit of what they were promised Marino Valley is one of the cities that has the most Warehouse development over the last few decades so I do think that that is indicative that is one of the places where we've seen um a real change in the last couple of years it's again like um it's it's it's it's really far down the path but I do think that's that's an indicator that the kind of organizing that Daniel is is talking about does have an impact thank you all for sharing your insights we're running out of time I have put everyone's uh titles and affiliations in case you want to contact them I'm going to Loop it back to Rebecca for some last thoughts um well this has just been so interesting um I want to thank everyone who put who who uh sent us questions and were in the chat I wish we could get to all of them because all those questions seem really interesting um and I know that as a reporter I would love to follow up on some of your questions so um you can feel free to reach me and I'll give you my contact information in a second um but yeah and thank you to everyone who joined us today um thank you for your great questions a big virtual Round of Applause for our panelists today um shahariar Matthew and Daniela um we we really appreciate you sharing your expertise with us um I think this was a really great discussion um as I mentioned I'll continue my reporting on Warehouse issues in the Inland Empire in the Central Valley so if you have any questions um you know ideas tips uh you can always reach me via email I'm rebecca. latimes.com and I hope this can be the beginning of a really interesting conversation thank you so much for joining us thank you e