237. Lehigh University - Playback Wednesdays - Bruce Bunnick - Director of Admissions

[Music] what's up Podcast friends and thank you for listening to the college admissions process podcast while analyzing the podcast data I realized that many of the earlier episodes some of which received the most overall downloads and are still extremely relevant today are not being listened to as much as the newly released episodes this is why I created the alphabetical list of colleges available on the podcast with the link to the related interview to the right of each school please use the alphab medical list as part of your college search which can be found in the show notes and on my website www.ol admissions talk.com the alphabetical list serves as an OnDemand virtual college fair with schools from throughout the country to highlight how valuable the alphabetical list is I will release past episodes that receive the highest overall downloads on Wednesdays throughout the summer please share the alphabetical list with anyone you think that may benefit as it has proven to be such a valuable tool for so many listeners so are you ready let's talk about it welcome to the cap to college ad missions process podcast I am your host John Durante and it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you today Bruce bunck who's the director of admissions at Lehi University now Bruce and I met at the naat conference in Baltimore I guess we hit it off Bruce and here we are welcome to the show how you doing today I'm very well John thank you and and it's a pleasure to to to join you for this podcast so thanks for this opportunity well thank you so much Bruce as you know it's truly my honor and pleasure as I know that this conversation is going to help so many students and their parents so Bruce let's get right to it Lehi university is known for its strong academic programs obviously and my understanding is that there's over a hundred with popular programs in mechanical engineering Finance computer science just to name a few could you highlight some of its distinctive academic offerings and any unique opportunities that set Lehi apart from other institutions certainly there there are three programs of note uh all of which are are designated as honors programs they're also integrated which means that they cross the boundaries of at least two separate colleges on our campus um they are the integrated business and engineering degree program that combines engineering with business the integrated degree in engineering arts and sence Sciences which combines elements of the College of Arts and Sciences with engineering and then finally the computer science and business program uh that that obviously combines uh applications of computer science and business the interesting aspect of the of the computer science and business program is that it carries joint accreditation it is a fully business accredited degree and is a fully computer science accredited degree that students earn uh all three of those program programs are four-year experiences we do offer for students who wish to pursue it an optional fifth year if they want to stay on uh and maybe earn a master's degree some of them might want to stay on and earn an undergrad degree a second undergraduate degree in a particular discipline they might want to study the integrated business and engineering degree program but then earn a BS in civil engineering in a fifth year completely optional but these are programs that I think are a bit distinctive each of them are honors designated programs the other piece that I would also want to emphasize that Lehi writ large with approximately a 100 different Majors to choose from uh the university has a a very very deep commitment to integrated learning so students who study in one college are free to choose to study as a minor in a separate college and we have often many unusual combinations uh the student who might study chemical engineering and minor in music performance the social science major who might major in Psychology and minor in business the business major that might minor in for language so in essence we we do give our undergraduates uh access to all four undergraduate colleges at the University and we provide uh a lot of support and academic uh uh advising to them to help them navigate their curricula well we appreciate that overview and you emphasize the integrated nature of your program which crosses the boundaries between at least two you gave multiple examples one of them being business and Engineering you talked about your fifth year program as well in case someone wants to stay on and finish that masters with an additional year which is terrific truly sounds like there's something for everyone Bruce but a lot of people they're very curious they want to know about life outside of your classroom so what types of extracurricular activities and campus life experience can students look forward to at Lehigh University I I think the students that we attract have a very intentional commitment to their academic studies but this is the type of an environment that is deeply residential at the same time so there is an Unwritten expectation that our Campus Community places on experiences away from the classroom certainly again students are purposeful and deliberate when it comes to their studies and they're very collaborative in nature on the academic side but to be able to put the books down figuratively speaking and engage in the community is something that our undergraduates welcome they Embrace uh they're looking specifically for that social uh element of the campus we do host just over 200 student L clubs and organizations and these clubs and organizations can range from everything from service clubs Social Clubs academic clubs um club sports Recreational Sports and so on so there's a literally a shopping mall uh of availability of clubs and organizations and if a student were to come to Lehi and engage in our social environment the clubs and organizations but decide I want to start my own club I want to start something that has significance to me Etc uh we are welcoming uh that opportunity to students we have specific guidelines we'll walk them through the process to create that club to to apply to student senate for funding and official recognition so just over 200 presently in terms of the clubs and organizations uh lots to choose from on the other side uh athletically we are division one we do feel 24 NCAA uh division one sporting events for men and women uh we are a patriot League school so uh I consider Lehigh to be a division one mid- major athletically where we are competing on the level of our our our conferences made up of Institutions such as Bucknell and Lafayette Colgate Holy Cross uh the service academies Army and Navy uh American University in Washington DC um Loyola of Maryland and Boston University so that's our level of competition we so we have division one athletes but we also have students that say again that this there's I I want to be involved Greek life is also available John on our campus um we have uh 14 fraternities and sororities on the campus so there are a number of different opportunities for Greek organizations and students who might want to get involved in in in that aspect uh Greek life is a segment of the social existence at Leigh is not the sum total so for many of our students they'll say it is an aspect of my overall social existence as opposed to strictly the the the again the end all be all of of the experience on the and clearly students at Lehi University are focused on their academics but as you explained you have over 200 clubs to keep students engaged and active outside of the classroom which of course includes as you mentioned all of the clubs D1 Athletics and even Greek life Bruce many students and their parents are curious about your holistic approach to the review process could you explain how Lehi evaluates each component of an application including things of course such as academic record extracurriculars and recommendation letters certainly and I think the the the operative word in in the question is is holistic uh that is important to us that this is a decidedly humanistic process uh to that is the the the task of reading applications every year uh they are read by people uh each member of the admission staff is assigned to a particular geographic region of the country or the world and we are in effect territory managers for uh each of those territories um I for example recruit specifically in the burough of Manhattan in New York City and I am charged in that capacity to know the schools they could be public magnet high schools charter high schools Independent high schools but we really are are very deliberate as far as understanding the grading system the grading Trends um the the the type of student from those high school that might find Lehi appealing Etc so we're we're very humanistic about this process the evaluation however uh it it takes some time we we are forecasting between 20 to 21,000 applications this year the admission staff again intentionally uh sequesters itself for about three months or so so that we can focus on applications there's not necessarily a given protocol that is is when we open an application we're going to this section or that section Etc we are doing a a comprehensive assessment of each application where we take into account of course the academic markers the high school transcript to us is very important we want to make sure that students have prepared themselves from their High School curriculum so we don't Tinker with GPA we don't recalculate we don't Norm for grade point averages we use the grading system that is established in that high school we'll also look at different things such as leadership capacity experiences extracurricular activities uh those kinds of things are very important because yes we want students who are going to be very again purposeful in the classroom but we also want to understand what it is that's important to them the written essays are very important it's the one aspect of applications uh in my opinion that gives voice to an otherwise voiceless application recommendation letters are also important because uh they speak about the student counselors who tend to talk about uh the student from a personal perspective and their thoughts on the Student Success uh level of success in the college teachers that talk about their contributions to the classroom so it is comprehensive there's not one piece that outweighs the other um we are test optional as well so we we might get testing from some students we might not well that's terrific thank you so much for the overview you talked about the transcript you talk about a student's potential leadership capacity and the fact that you're purposeful in terms of who's going to succeed in your classroom but you also want to know the type of student that they will be on your campus in terms of the type of Citizen that they're going to be if you will and how they're going to contribute so let's unpackage the overall applications a little bit further Bruce if you don't mind essays as you mentioned play a significant role in the overall application process so what advice can you give to applicants on Crafting standout essays that genuinely reflect their personality and aspirations I I think the essay is is an aspect of a college application that many high school seniors sometimes lament right that they might go through several drafts of an essay they might try to write the Unicorn essay the perfect essay but but these are you know frankly and honestly they're 17 and 18 year old students and I think that they're they're h Y and their authenticity tends to stand out uh in their in their essays and I think that is what I value what we value the most at Lehi so there is no perfect format I would say if if if I can shift a bit to advice as far as how to craft that essay I would urge students to to do their best to stay on prompt that is um the common application or the Coalition application gives a set number of prompts for the long essay and students are typically asked to respond with up to 650 words try not to drift if you're taking a a topic or you're selecting a prompt that has something to do with resiliency or or something that you've overcome Etc stay on that topic try not to drift or wander uh in your Pros uh uh maybe sit down and and write a um uh just kind of sketch out how you want to approach this essay and what are important points that you want to add to it that will emphasiz emphasize your development emphasize your growth emphasize what you've achieved Etc um it's there it's never a bad idea to outline what you plan to write in an essay not required but not a bad idea that way you're not going through multiple multiple drafts of of that essay that can be tedious at times um we read them and I will also just just add that of the thousands of applications that we read each year and and I've been in this business for over for 30 years so I've I've read a number of of essays over those in that time period I will remember an applicant because of the essay I I don't always remember the applicant because of the grade performance or their the number of A's or you know when when we were requiring the SAT their SAT scores Etc it's nice to to remember them on their leadership or their accomplishments but it's the essay that really keeps them in my mind uh and and I have had in um instances where I've been I've read an application I've read the essay and I was so moved by the essay that I've stopped doing what I'm doing and I literally email the student just to say I I want you to know uh you crafted such a wonderful wonderful essay it was so insightful it doesn't happen all the time but but I've done that and I continue to practice that when when I I feel like it's give credit to where credit is Du well that's awesome and I like how you talked about as a 17-year-old students your honesty and authenticity really stands out make it sound like it's being written from a 17year old and stay on prompt but Bruce as a quick followup you talked about some inspirational examples would you be able to share one with us just to give some insight in terms of what is it that the student wrote about that stuck with you um I I've read a number and I'll I'll kind of classify that under um commitment to family uh students who might have have crafted or scripted an essay or recall one student who really had a significant parental role uh in their household uh both parents worked the both in fact I recall the mother had two jobs to work and um the student had responsibility for three younger siblings so they were a a de facto parent to those those children and the students spoke specifically about how quickly he had to grow up to to fulfill these obligations that his parent he lived in a very loving household um but but the circumstances were such that uh he had to commit his time and so he also went on to to share that my extracurricular profile my leadership profile Etc might not match a lot of my peers in your applicant pool but understand that in in the world of my younger siblings I have become everything to to them and and it was just really just an impactful example of of the way that a student described their life their their lived experiences but also their their deep commitment to the value uh the value system that that he was raised with well I appreciate that and I'm glad I asked the question because it really gives insight to the fact that students if you have to take care of the family perhaps you holding a job your yourself let it be known to the admissions counsel had this person not written about that and perhaps in this case the student really didn't have a lot of extracurricular activities you're leaving it up to the admissions counselor to speculate as to why as opposed to explaining it in an essay which in this case obviously resonated with Bruce for a long time so I know that a lot of students are probably connected to this very example and I appreciate you sharing that with us Bruce so let's continue to dig deeper in terms of the holistic approach letters a recommendation are another important part of a student's overall application obviously so Bruce what makes a recommendation letter truly impactful and how should students approach their choice of recommenders certainly great questions I I believe that in Reading letters of recommendation it's not the quantity uh it's not the length of the letter it's it's the quality that is that is included in in those letters of recommendation this should be something that I think students ought to investigate as they continue their search but uh at Lehi specifically we don't require uh for example students who have an interest in stem disciplines to approach a calculus teacher or a physics teacher or a chemistry teacher because they're teaching an area of the curriculum uh that they might want to study on the college level I if those individuals can write um uh very uh specific letters of recommendations supportive letters of recommendation on their behalf by all means go ahead but they can go to an English teacher or a history teacher someone who knows them well who can vouch for for their uh capacity on the college level can comment on the accomplishments and and the way the way they've made contributions to that individual class or perhaps classes um and why they stood out that's the teacher recommendation so I would say again investigate uh some institutions might prefer that you submit uh a letter of recommendation from a teacher that is in a subject that you plan to study in college we we don't at Lehi we just again we don't have a preference the guidance counsel recommendation on the other hand um it will vary quite honestly counselors tend to talk about you as a student as a person they talk about your maturity uh they talk about you know from the moment they met you to their work with you I will will admit though there are some letters of recommendation specifically from guidance counselors where they have either said uh this is a very large school district uh we we only get to know our students at the beginning of their senior year uh and I I don't know the student as well as I would hope uh to as well as I'd hope to learn or know them um in those instances if a student is feeling a little bit of um uh resistance or reluctance if you will in that case I would say supplement submit an additional letter of recommendation from a teacher you can also submit a letter of recommendation from an employer um a coach sometimes uh we've had letters of recommendation from alumni I will though say and I think this is this is advice that I'm going to give on the whole letters of recommendation piece be cautious you don't want to submit too many because there are too many in our operation we've required two one from a teacher one from a guidance counselor if a student submits an additional letter of recommendation outside of those two we'll read it but when it becomes three four five six letters of recommendation we simply can't devote the time to read all of them so we very likely will have to skip over them uh we might refer back to them in committee um but try to keep your letters of recommendation tight within the confines of what the institution's asking maybe one more if you know an Alum those kinds of things okay but don't go over board with letters of recommendation well I appreciate that and Bruce what I'm gathering from that is again what you said it's not the quantity but the quality so if you're going to ask for an additional letter of recommendation and of course you said you required two one from the teacher one from the guidance counselor if you're going to ask for that additional letter recommendation would you agree that it needs to be someone that's going to add something different as opposed to someone who's going to basically repeat what's on your activity sheet or repeat what the other teacher may have written in his or her letter any insight on that yeah I I I think that's a good point uh that you could see two letters of recommendation that are sort of diametrically opposed to one another that is someone from a traditional Humanities level program that might speak about uh your uh ability to grasp historical context and and the way they've admired the way that you know you you could recite things but you can also offer insight into aspects of in a historical context for example as opposed to maybe a more scientific teacher who might discuss your capacity to grasp uh mathematical Concepts or scientific Concepts and and and you could you know you're you're a curiousmind individual uh you're always asking questions you're always being thoughtful and and in a way that that is it shows it demonstrates your intelligence and your true curiosity toward the subject I I I've seen that in the in the past where where they are very very different from one another and I think it's a good idea if you can do it but please don't feel as if you have to do it I want to welcome back Sean Patel who's the CEO and founder of prep expert Sean thank you so much for being here how are you doing well thanks for having me John just wanted to do a quick shout out for an amazing deal that we have for college admissions process podcast listeners we're offering 30% off all prep expert SAT and ACT courses in tutoring it's live online we've got the best score Improvement guarantees in the industry you'll get toau by 99% T instructors and you can save 30% off when you go to the show notes of the college admissions process podcast grab your discount code for 30% off and click the link in the show notes thank you Sean so great to have you again and to everyone else out there please note that if you make a purchase through any of our affiliate links the podcast gets a commission but rest assured that we would only promote products that we believe in and feel would benefit our listeners thank you all and best wishes well we appreciate that and of course I agree but it's a good lens to look into students and parents going through the process try to be mindful of the fact that there's a lot of pieces to the holistic review when talking about out the recommendation letters try to call upon someone that's going to give a different aspect of who you are as a person as opposed to just two letters from two people that are identical right and that doesn't add to the overall application so you know we appreciate that and you know I encourage students to look through that lens when they're thinking about putting it all together the Common App as the same questions regardless of which school you're applying to yes but many schools add supplemental questions to gain more insight into the student so how many supplemental questions does Lehi ask for and what are you trying to learn from potential students in their responses we require uh two additional short responses uh that that are included on the the Lehi writing supplement I still refer to it as the writing supplement I think in the commac world I think they call it the the member questions uh these days we we do ask a more open-ended question of uh that that tests a student's um investigation of Lehi where we ask them what motivated you to apply to to Lehi and share your journey of of your investigation so it is a very pointed Lehi question uh and we we receive a variety of answers that particular question has a response that's up to 150 words so not not lengthy um so so again just an assessment of of their their investigation the other question internally we refer to it as the Lehi Community question and and we've tinkered with the wording of this question from year to year that we ask them a question about their lived experiences we give them three separate we have this sort of Preamble where we we discuss life on lehi's campus the things that we value the mission of the institution Etc so we give students some context of this is what we believe in at Lehi here are three sep prompts that will ask you to sort of discuss in detail your lived experience something you've overcome or uh something that is important to you so we we will ask them for up to 300 words on on just one only one uh of those those prompts and that is something that that we value because we're trying as best as we can to have the applicant temporarily put themselves in the mindset of a leh student um this is why this is what I've overcome and this is why I feel that it will contribute to my growth and development and to the overall Campus Community at Lehi so so so they're the ones that that we feel that there's no right or wrong response and that students usually again just to get back to that whole idea of of authenticity uh they're really I think they probe a little bit deeper they they they sort of talk about themselves as an individual and what they what they've accomplished but also so maybe something they've overcome okay so so very important to us I will mention though quickly John we have this what I consider to be um an optional question but on the application itself we ask students why they're applying to a particular academic program so we're not asking for a long response but we're curious to know what is on their mind and what led them to consider applying to an engineering discipline or to a business discipline or something in Arts and Sciences that is sort of a free form question that students have the option to respond to it'll give them a chance to help us understand why they want to study computer science why they want to study finance and so on so I i' look at that less of an essay and more of a a just a response prompt uh to more of an academic response prompt well I appreciate how you talked about the two short responses the first looks at your Lehi motivation the second you talked about the Lehi Community you mentioned the optional question why a particular major all of that to me Bruce sounds like you're trying to understand the demonstrated understanding right if the student really understands what Lehi has to offer they need to explain why they see themselves there like you mentioned a particular program and frankly how they see themselves contributing right to this thing that we call Lehi that's obviously bigger than all of us but how lovely if as could come there and also contribute yes is that correct would you agree with that in terms of that's really the essence of what you're trying to determine there their demonstrated understanding of all your programs what do you think I I agree with you and I think that is sort of the burning question that most colleges ask students right why why is it that what led you to find us and what motivated you to submit an application um so so there is no right or wrong answer right or response and I think that's worth stressing however we find that that our students our perspective students investigate and investigate deeply uh they will engage with us through email followup uh they might we might spend some time on the phone with them we have a series of virtual events that we're trying to uh clarify particular programs or to to cite the difference from one program to the next that Etc so so I think I I think that prospective students are eager to learn they they go through the learning process and then that that whole kind of culmination manifests itself on these responses this is this is why I'm looking this is these are the reasons why it's not always because I want to study under Professor XYZ or I want to be in this particular lab it might be you know my my commitment has been uh a lifelong process of learning but also valuing those around me and I'm finding that on your campus well that's great Insight Bruce and of course I know that Lehi like many other schools throughout the country is in fact test optional Bruce can you share the percentage of students that apply and that are ultimately admitted that did not submit their test scores and does this change at all based on intended major uh we adopted just to give you some quick background obviously covid made the decision for us to adopt a test optional uh uh philosophy but since then I I will say as a professional it has become refreshing to not have to necessarily uh in some of the cases where we're making decisions on the margins we might have to look in the past we might have we might have looked at testing more so as a complement to the academic piece and it could have been the the difference between a student who was admitted or weight listed or denied but but today uh we we will for the foreseeable future remain test optional that is our our our stance um it it is about a 5050 uh split almost evenly split between this and this is strictly within the admitted student population not the applicant pool the applicant pool just under half of the applicants to Lehi last year submitted standardized testing in the admit pool it's about 5050 uh which is nice it's a good split I I I prefer that it's it's 5050 as opposed to 70% of the admits were from test submitters versus 30% non- test submitters uh but but it is as I said earlier it's been refreshing because you're not necessarily anchored to to standardized testing which has uh of course we we've talked about this uh publicly in the media Etc there there are good and bad sides of standardized testing uh there there are inherent biases there are institutions that use it for very specific purpose purp is to place students in classes in the first year so you know it is it is not the sum total of a of an individual I I never looked at at sat or ACT scores as um you know the deciding factor also if I can quickly mention and I think this is where um a little bit of of our narrative on higher education gets a a bit off the rails is that if if individuals are looking or or making the presumption that the level of in ual discourse on a college campus is is Tethered to an average SAT or ACT score I think they're making a big mistake because there are so many wonderful elements to in institutions you just have to look deeper right you've got to look below the bricks and morar you've got to interact and engage but but we will remain test optional for the foreseeable future on our campus well I appreciate that and I love the word that you use because it is in fact refreshing and thank you for sharing that footage the admitted students and I'm emphasizing this again for the admitted students it was 50/50 in terms of students that had actually submitted scores and those that did not I'm emphasizing it because there seems to be a feeling out there that the test optional movement is uh is not real so here at Lehi that's a great statistic and by the way it's pretty consistent U amongst all the schools I ask this question pretty regularly you gonna say something yes may I also add uh John that that I I think the unintended consequence of adopting a test optional policy and so many institutions did coming out of covid or during the covid period um is that the that that the unintended consequence is that the students that they themselves feel their test results are higher naturally they could they could have an SAT composite in the high 14s or the mid1 15s or the high 15s or an act composite of 34 or 35 Etc I think there is a greater tendency for those students to submit naturally right what's that what that is doing however is it's taking the middle 50% band the 25th to 75th percentile and it is inflating it artificially so that to the general public they'll see that middle 50% band that is on the higher end and assume that I shouldn't apply because that's the middle 50% well not necessarily uh only less than half of our students submitted standardized testing so really you're immediately disqualifying half of the applicant pool they just didn't submit standardized testing so be beware be aware well that's such a great point and you're absolutely right everyone should hear that again the mid 50% nowadays is skewed it's higher because as Bruce said less than 50% of the students submitted their test scores so obviously students that are submitting are those students that are scoring higher which is fantastic and if you have a favorable score certainly submit it if it's you know adding to your overall application but if you see a school whose mid-50 is high and it might be a little bit of a reach for you to reach those numbers that's okay study for the test take the SAT take the ACT take it again and again and you make a decision if you're within the range and it's going to help your overall application fantastic submit if not at leh high again admitted students 50% submitted 50% did not so it's very important to just have Clarity in terms of this part of the overall application and so Bruce where do you see the test optional Trend going in the next few years I I think there's a small collection of Institutions that will very likely return to requiring tests they might roll out initially and say that we're test optional but but we we do recommend and I I think that that creates vagueness to students where they say well if you're test optional but recommend does that mean that you are a de facto uh test required institution and that's you might get a straight answer you might get a kind of a vague answer but but I think there are some institutions that will return I think that MIT um is is one institution that did recently return to requiring SATs but but MIT does that for very specific reason uh that is a very institutional reason they use those tests for placement but they're also using them for evaluation they're they're one institution that stands out that that went back to requiring uh sat or ACT scores it's fine it's their decision but I I think that higher education RIT large will probably still adhere to the more schools adhering to test optional U more schools that are embracing it and seeing the value in it um I I I think that there's still a place for standardized testing um but as I said earlier it's not the end all it's not the sum total of an individual uh there's so many different measures for success and you know the academic markers that we look for that are important to us well thank you and what's important to the listeners to hear someone like yourself as the Director at Lehi to just give that Insight you know we really appreciate it and I was also curious Bruce when reviewing applications obviously from various high schools I know that you talked about the fact that you specifically work out of Manhattan but obviously Lehi gets applications throughout from throughout the entire country and and Beyond so how do you take into account when one student school offers close to let's say 30 advanced placement courses while someone else's only offers five how does the review process differ for these two types of students sure so so I would begin by saying that the this is an aspect where we have very intentional discussions in our selection committee uh when we sit together as a staff and we are making final decisions after all the reviewing has been completed um we want context we want to understand uh the nuances the subtleties and the curriculum from one high school to to another we will not and I would emphasize this we will not compare a student from for example High School a against the neighboring High School B that might be several miles down the road or in the next town over Etc so I think it's again about context uh I've seen a number of high schools public independent that have intentionally abandoned uh their advanced placement curriculum or uh their International balarat curriculum uh to sort of level the playing field in their High School I think however you know if a student is is willing to be a risk taker and they might attend one of those high schools that that Prides itself on its level of advanced placement and some cases it could be International baloran but they promote the idea that we are a rigorous high school we offer a lot of advanced placement classes if we see very little evidence of it that's all we can go on we can't make assumptions we can't assume that it was a matter of you know the seventh and eighth grade and not getting on the right track and they came into ninth grade and they you know couldn't eventually take the number of APs that they'd like to sometimes high school counselors might explain that but we can't make that assumption so truthfully if if there is if there is a reasonable number of advanced placement courses on a transcript given a school that would have a healthy menu of options for AP and the student feels like this is this made sense to me that I I gravitated towards areas of the curriculum that I felt that advanced placement will give me the challenge I'm I'm curious and I I want to Le learn this material at a deeper level then by all means that's fine okay okay but I I also feel that you know for the students who who might for example complete three or four APS in the junior year and then five APS in the senior year I just want to make sure that uh the student is is ready because uh the worry that I have there is if you have a 5 AP schedule in the senior year when you go off to college especially if you're applying to very selective places um you know don't don't leave uh if you say there's no gas left in the tank I left it all in my 12th grade I I I really poured it on for the sake of of impressing the the college at missions offices and I I really um I'm exhausted mentally um went through a lot in this past year and oh by the way I'm in a at a competitive School competitive College if you will and you know the bottom 80% of my class is gone everybody around me was top 10 top five valid dictorian Etc you're going to have to hit the ground running so I do worry a little bit about the student that that that overextend themselves okay so that that's important we won't penalize a student though who you know has an appropriate number within a 30 AP high school for example or a student who says look I only took two APS because our school only offers five that's it everything else is really tough so yeah it's all about context well thank you for explaining in that context and can you explain what opportunities Lehi office students that may have had an IEP while in high school in terms of course of helping to ensure that they continue to be successful once they're on your campus certainly we have an office office of disability Support Services on campus that basically it it enhances the University's educational Mission um our commitment to maintaining an inclusive and Equitable Community by providing equal access um and reasonable accommodations uh to qualified students so we don't in the admissions process if a student holds an IEP we don't ask them to submit they might come to campus and or or they could visit campus and have that IEP and schedule an appointment to speak with our our um dis disability Support Services office to say you know what what would this mean what I qualify for um we will test students internally as well if they don't have an IEP but what we're trying to do is to provide the level of service and in some cases that could mean accommodations uh in other cases it could be tutorial support um uh so that we are providing them with the best opportunity for success in our classroom no one at Lehi is handed a grade I think students work very hard for uh the grades that they earned but at the same time we want them to feel confident that I could have a you know a particular disability or um or a learning difference that that might affect a particular dimension of my curriculum how can you accommodate how can you work with me so that so this really becomes an afterthought I'm I'm working through it or I've worked through it in high school I understand how to navigate and I'm I'm continuing on that in that positive direction so so lots of opportunities um for students who who themselves might have an IEP or they might go undiagnosed until their junior or senior year of high school and this might be an all of a sudden um item on their on their plate well I appreciate the information regarding your office of accessibility and Bruce I always put the office of undergraduate admission in the show notes if there are any links that you want to share for the students and parents just send them to me and of course we'll make them available in the show notes and speaking of parents I've also received quite a few inquiries actually from parents and students that are homeschooled yes so Bruce how does the application process differ for students who are homeschooled in terms of what they need to consider when applying but also what the review process looks like from an admissions office sure I'll I'll if I can I'll rewind a bit that's a great question we are seeing a uh a number of students we have seen over the last decade or so a number of students who themselves are opting uh for homeschool uh and and and that typically involves the completion of of some level of transcript equivalency we have had some homeschool students that might say that uh uh I do have my certificate my hes School certificate but I am also going to sit for a GED just to get the GED I I simply want to get it and that's a conversation we've had in our household so uh that that could be part of the um part of the equation when John we were a test optional institution we would uh place a little bit more emphasis on standardized testing to balance the homeschool curriculum but today uh since more and more students are are opting to be homeschool the prescribed curriculum there's better guidance better guidelines better trained parents who themselves are are educating their children um and so I I think they are just as qualified as as their counterparts at the at the nearby uh high school they are just as qualified I think they're just as ready to to step into the classrooms and perform equal with their peers so I I would never ever uh in a uh uh disparage uh the notion of homeschool but we're seeing more of it what what is interesting though John is that I mentioned earlier that we we divide the the US and the world up regionally personto person okay when it comes to homeschool students it's where they live is their Regional officer so you could live in in Silver Spring Maryland um and your your your application is reviewed by the Maryland admissions representative you know whereas you could have a boarding school in Massachusetts but the students home address is in California well it the student in that case is tied to a high school specific high school but homeschool it's where you live yeah well we appreciate that insight and it sounds then in terms of the overall review process there's really not much difference at all between a student that's homeschooled and someone who's in a traditional if you will High School correct Bruce that's correct yes great thank you so much Bruce this has been an awesome conversation and we're coming towards the end of it but before I ask that last question Bruce is there a question I didn't ask or a topic that I didn't bring up that you wish to share with us now I think all of the topics that we discussed are are applicable to to this process I think that they're cover they covered everything uh that that is that is you know necessary the the one piece that I would emphasize to students however is uh there are things that are within your control and there are things that are outside of your control the things that are within your control are are twofold initially first it is conducting the meaningful thoughtful deliberate investigation creating a list that you feel is manageable a list of colleges and universities exploring the options regular decision early decision early action you know having knowledge and understanding those those uh opportunities those options as you apply but that meaningful search is very important the second piece that's clearly in the students control is um is completion of the application itself you are clearly as a student you are clearly in control of the content the information that goes into uh that application that is all you all day every day um you know it's not going to it's the application is not something that you simply sit down and say I'm going to complete all of this in one day it usually takes time it takes effort you you might craft an essay and redraft it andc etc etc you might change your responses you might have a change of heart academically but you control that piece the the once you touch submit that's where unfortunately it temporarily goes out of your control uh because the admissions offices are intaking they're they're bringing in those applications they're processing everything they're they're adding all of your documents together and it goes through the review process process that we we covered earlier um what's funny though is that once that process is done and especially for regular decision applicants um once that decision is is rendered if you are admitted you go back to being fully in control the students are in control so there is that temporary piece where you're where it's out of your hands but there's these bookends of Investigation application and then decision where they are they are yours so yeah well that's great Insight thanks again Bruce this has been awesome and it does lead us to that last question which is what are your top three pieces of advice you would provide a student and their parents getting ready for the college admissions process sure um I I think that you student to the students please take care of yourself please make sure that you know you you are mindful of of those around you but but also also take care of yourself um I will say that we are seeing an increase on some of the personal statements uh where you know especially in a postco world where um mental health has been something that's articulated and not to the extent that we are overly concerned in every case but but I think Co really took took it took its toll uh in some cases in Lost learning in other cases in just the the the quick shift in in teaching pedagogies and and ways that uh the the normal classroom educational experience was delivered to students so so make sure you're you're taking care of yourself and please enjoy uh for those students out there that are seniors enjoy being a senior uh the year will go by quickly uh the the the moment to sort of embrace your friendships embrace your opportunities celebrate your accomplishments your achievements Etc are so important because in a in less than a year you're going to be on a new college campus new chapter in life adulthood new people but you should take time to uh enjoy the senior year and then lastly I would say and this is more of a household thing so this I think applies to parents as well as students but if in your assessment of your qualifications your your everything you're going to put into that application if you feel that I've crafted a I've created a list of colleges where I know I'm going to be successful F I'm absolutely confident that I'm going to be successful and I'm also equally confident that I'm going to land this everything will work out I'm G to land You've Won half the battle and I I I feel like students go into this process sometimes overcome with anxiety because it is an issue of where am I going to get to get into and and single digigit admit rates and oh my gosh what is my how's my application going to resonate against all these wonderful kids Etc there is a right college or university for everyone you just have to find it I know that's a big task but you just have to find it well those are tremendous pieces of advice Bruce obviously Lehi is so fortunate to have you as were we on this episode well we can't thank you enough I'm so happy as I know that this is going to help so many students and their parents as they navigate the process hope to have you again Bruce you are awesome thank you so much thanks John thanks all terrific and one last thing to say to everyone out there good luck with your college take care everyone and best wishes thank you for joining us on this episode of the cap the college admissions process podcast we hope you enjoyed the show if you did please don't forget to tell a friend and follow us on Facebook Instagram Twitter and wherever you listen to your podcast I am your host John Durante and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the cap [Music] hey John this is Abby from Penn State dormify is my go-to for all things small space Decor but my absolute favorite product is their Sutton charging three drawer cart on wheels is the perfect height for my lofted dorm bed which adds the extra charging ports to my room which I really needed the additional plug and drawers make my dorm so much cleaner and it's all in Wheels it's a perfect addition to my room and I couldn't recommend it enough thank you so much for listening thank you Abby for sharing your thoughts on dormify for those of you listening be sure to check out our show notes where you could find our dormify affiliate link and our most updated coupon code where you can save 15% on most dormify products as a reminder our podcast does receive a small commission for purchases made through our affiliate link but rest assured we only promote products that we believe in and feel would benefit you our listeners thank you and best wishes to all [Music]