🇬🇧 S2-E6 : Ludovic Pommeret & Lydie Raillard

hello Hello nice to meet you Ludo L how's the drive oh it took a long time border people yeah right 2 1 Welcome to cross paths the podcast of the UTMB World Series every month two Runners one Elite and one amateur come together to discuss trail running and much more they share their passions Inspirations and get to know each other better today French Trail Legend Ludovic B winner of the UTMB in 2016 and the TDS in 2022 welcomes liay a passionate runner from shamoni to his home together they discuss their love of travel nutrition and the secrets to longevity and sports we hope you'll enjoy this moment where their paths crossed [Music] ludic let's get this podcast started it's not every day you meet an ultra Trail Legend but I'm going to introduce you to all our listeners even if I think they know your track record inside and out so Ludovic you're 48 years old and you're a computer engineer working in air traffic control you grew up in val Savo and continued your studies in grob until the age of 25 your sporting activities focused on board Sports snowboarding wind surfing skiing you discovered trail running by chance in 2000 when your brothers-in-law coached you in a mountain race and it was a revolation you quickly perhaps too quickly committed yourself to long-distance running before rethinking your strategy your victory in the grand raid 73 in 2007 ahead of Da sha was the first in a long series of performances third place in the CCC in 2009 a magnificent victory in the UTMB in 2016 after a comeback that made Trail history three second places in the diagonal deu before a victory in 2001 hand in hand with Daniel young and then a victory at the TDS in 2022 you love the competition the atmosphere of the races and the friendship between Runners defying the passages of time motivates you deeply you are getting ready to celebrate the 20th anniversary of your first participation in the UTMB this year so does this little summary apply to you do you have anything to add what yeah that's me that's me uh on the other hand there's one part that's a bit missing for me and that's my family because I'm married I have two daughters so that also counts in the uh presentation it's important and you have brought a personal object can you tell us what that little object in front of you is it's a small metal object with two parts and a rope can you guess what it is it doesn't speak to me at all it doesn't speak to you at all no it looks like a little bell but now that you've lifted it it's not oh no it's not a bell it's called a plumbob okay it's used to check the plumbness of wall to see if it's straight for example okay why a plumbob uh it's important to me because it's also a bit of Life strategy uh together as a family we built our second home soon to become our main home so that was a big part of our life not not a sporting part at all but a part where we devoted a lot of time to it it was a family project our daughters helped in any way they could we spent six years building this house so it's a little nod to a tool that's useful in uh in this case for construction so there we have it okay so a little introduction ldy your 35 years old you were born and raised in the bodor region with your brother and sister of whom you're the eldest very early on you devoted yourself to swimming you spent 18 years in a club including four in sports classes although you didn't have the physique to be a powerful swimmer you had excellent technique which led you to become a swimming teacher you hated running in your youth but when you had to take a running test to as a teacher it was a revelation with a friend you start out on the road what a mistake before taking two Trails when you settled in shamun in 2018 in 2020 you have a near-death experience when you suffer a form of stroke after a few months condolence this accident acts as a form of Liberation and motivates you to switch to long distance running you set up an Instagram account dedicated to running where your passion for the sport and meeting new people takes precedence over the stopwatch according to you you can't stay still and devote most of your free time to sport you take part in 8 to 10 races a year with your site set on 100k this year yes that's it do you have anything to adds about this oh no this is pretty much it and you've also brought us an object what is it then it's uh I'd say it's a lens thing they're contact lenses but not just any lenses they're Ortho onology lenses okay well the short story is that I'm nearsighted and when I was on the OCC I got some dust under my lens and it scratched my cornea because for 58 kilm it was just rubbing and rubbing and rubbing um I had to go to the emergency room afterwards and I have an acquaintance who told me about oror carology lenses in fact they're night lenses that correct my myopia during the day so now I just have to sleep with lenses at night to see clearly all day long I can't see how it works but okay it's magic exactly that's [Music] [Applause] great ludic did you grow up in a sporting environment sporting environment well yes I grew up in the mountains so they're skiing after that I didn't come from a sporting family if that's what you mean my parents weren't particularly sporty neither was my sister so yes or no uh an environment conducive to sport in any case and did your parents need to encourage you in your practice no not especially of course when you live in the mountains and then in the resort in fact you you end up skiing anyway uh you also have to keep busy because these are Villages so hiking no it's a bit boring when you're young I mean uh a bit like running I think you said you discovered it late it's a bit the same for me I find it hard to get motivated to go running it's not much fun I don't know why we find it interesting afterwards that's true so no not pushed by my parents but naturally we tried a bit of everything the environment was enough to get you into sport yeah what about you my family wasn't particularly sporty either uh we used to go on a lot of hiking vacations in the mountains that's the point weren't those good times it was actually pretty fun after that my mother always insisted that we learn to swim and my brother and sister and I really enjoyed learning to swim we found out that there was a club and it was really our decision to get into swimming after that they kept us active I grew up in the country so we were always brought up in the garden quite different from those raised in the city exactly as we were saying in the introduction you discovered trail running just before you turned 25 is that right yeah that's about the time a bit of a coincidence really there was a race starting in valir and it was a bit of a challenge to do it and do you think you would have missed out on this discipline without this little Stroke of Luck yeah it's possible because doing this race was a bit of a discovery it was a bit of a curiosity to have an activity that started at the resort so we thought why not it's a bit of an attraction then to say but uh is it really possible to do 105 km there's a category for Walkers so I signed up and suffered as I discovered the discipline it's by making mistakes that we learn yeah it does but it hurts too at the time were there are some particularly inspirational athletes in the discipline after that when I became more interested in the discipline and tried to train a bit to meet those challenges yes there were some inspiring people at that time we were talking earlier about daa people who were well known at the time but there were others too these people marked the beginnings of trail running even if trail running was a bit vague after all running in the mountains has been around for years so you too discovered your running skills late in life what Drew you to competition uh I would say it was to keep a goal and to stay motivated because after a while running gets uh that's boring especially when you start out on the road it's fun but it's boring so it was really about having a goal and my first race was with one of my best friends for the fight against breast cancer it was a 5K run and there was a very small climb in Monier which I still remember I said they're crazy they're running uphill that's crazy so I naively signed up for the M blon 10K thinking it would be like a 10K road race and then I got a phenomenal slap in the face but in the end it was great because I rediscovered the sport in a different way okay so it's the competition that motivates you to go and trade that's what it is it's really having a goal in mind we're a bit alike here if I don't have a goal it's hard for me to go and train whereas I know friends to go and train to train to have fun in training so let's listen to a little sound extract that's sure to bring back a racing [Music] memory maybe you can laain a little because you seem to remember well it was last April at the Paris Marathon I came back on the road to help my friend with whom i' started out on the road to go through the marathon so I signed up for the Paris marathon and one of my best friends was dressed as a dinosaur on the side of the road was cheering me on and that day she proposed to me right in the middle of the marathon here's the girlfriend that encour well I couldn't have guessed of course no is that your best racing memory it's a very good memory of a race when you have family and friends around it's always incredible so how did you come up with the idea of creating an Instagram account well I mean a lot of people do of course but your account is a little bit different maybe it's especially about running about the mountains it uh came to me because when I first arrived in sh it was difficult to make friends and meet new people so it was a bit of a way to keep myself busy to share what I was doing with those close to me and then in the end other people liked it as I saw that it was working I published more and more and more okay so you want to share the values of the mountains but also of effort that's it the effort and the fact that it's accessible to everyone that we can all do it that it doesn't matter if we walk uphill that it's not reserved for the elite and that we have the right to do it the way we like and that even if we spend 5 hours doing what someone else does in 2 hours it's not a problem it's all about enjoying yourself and having fun we don't care how others look at us it doesn't matter go ahead dare go for it that's really the message I want to get across 3 2 1 lud you're the opposite right from the start you've shown an immense appetite for competition yes it's true that I did a lot of running when I first started in fact that's pretty much all I did I didn't train a lot but I ran almost every two weeks racing was a way of training or or not training um I enjoyed going to the races it was a way of moving around a bit seeing the scenery and discovering races so that's how I started until 2014 it took a while though and I did a lot of competitions and juggling a personal life and the life of an elite Runner was complicated yes it was complicated let's just say my wife wasn't a runner well she ran afterwards she ran a little bit so I have to say that she was more in charge of the house and the kids in any case having a full-time job and a family requires compromises you have to make on all sides whether it's sport family or training I I don't know how many hours you put in a week but you have to take into account your work and what's on the side in your training I'm grateful to my wife for taking on more responsibility for the family back then and now that the girls have grown up we can do some things together it's good to share moments you see things differently and it's memories for the girls too because we took them to all the races it's made them travel quite a bit we tried to take them with us every time we've taken them to Mor and Japan several times so they're family memories too it's awesome it's cool in the last episode of crossed pass Dakota Jones talked about training like an engineer would you say that your profession has had any influence on your sports or mental training no no so no I'd say no uh well maybe a little bit mentally but when it comes to sport no I'm I'm not really into analyzing sessions at all I have a cardio watch well I use it a bit for training to to check but I've never really analyzed my runs I keep a notebook to get an idea of the volume I'm doing so now with applications you have them directly but not analyzed and then I didn't really get into training now that I have a coach he's in charge he tells me what to do and I do it or try to do it and then no I'm an engineer at work but not in my approach to trail running and how do you balance trail running and competition do you have to compromise in your life compromises no because I have actually built my life around what I like to do which is being in the mountains so I've made sure that my life is geared towards making sure that everything fits together it's a very important part of my life it's been a Lifeline at a pretty difficult time in my life not bad for swimming teacher right yes it's very practical but it's really been a Lifeline for me that I've held on to and it's a very important part of my life after that I'm learning to relax a bit and do some cross training but I've taken up cycling and then when I was in Shoni skiing ski touring but it's true that sport is very very big part of my life but it's not a compromise for me at all you have enough time to do whatever you want and the advantage of my job is that we work a bit out of step with people because we have to be open when people aren't working that means I can have free mornings free ends of the day and the rest of the week which is quite convenient okay and do you discipline yourself when it comes to eating before the recording you told me about your breakfast which was what I didn't mention was that it was weighed because I'm seeing a nutritionist firstly for me because I'm someone who's very Square in my life so that's also part of the trick and then to try to lighten up before my ultra at the end of August and after that I still have some deviations I love chocolate no kidding okay you find your balance a bit like that that's how I find my balance you see are you rigorous in your preparation from what I understand maybe a little L though I'm very strict so I didn't have any Armen qu this morning so I'm very strict about what I eat no um actually I eat what's on offer at the restaurant at lunchtime um in other words everything I try not to overindulge although I do overindulge in chocolate sweets and sausages okay I I overdo it so I don't have a nutritionist although my nutrition partner and I do have a plan for the races but not outside the races but that's important in racing especially in Ultra Trail I had a lot of nutritional problems especially at the beginning I don't know how things went for you on the races but I had a hard time finding my balance to not feel bad on the races has that solved anything for you no I took on a nutritionist for that too because not many people eat enough on the races and so at the end of the race your legs feel heavy you feel like you're lacking carbohydrates and all that so it's a bit more for performance whatever you're looking for because I don't want to end up on my kneecaps either I'm doing this for pleasure not to end up in a state where I'm at the end of my te it's true you don't want to end up like that no isn't that what you want to look for if you increase the distances isn't it also about looking for that kind of thing to see how far I can go other Sensations or resources that you may not feel able to go to but it's also because the coach told me I was a diesel engine I run on economy he told me that you can run for a very long time and so I want to see how far I can run for a very long time okay so you have a nutritionist uh I understand you also have a trainer I don't know who's amateur and who's professional okay but I think that given my longest distance is still a 60k race I think I need to push the body a little to prepare it for an effort that's still going to be violent even if I'm going to take an indefinite time I think Courtney will get there from the UTMB before I do from the CCC so this is CCC yes I'm attending the CCC so I have to finish before noon that's all that matters okay but you chose CCC because it's at home because it's at home but what makes you choose one race over another in general I really like running at home because you're running in a pretty idealic setting and knowing the trails makes me feel better after that it's uh you're a bit of a square so you don't want any discoveries I do last January for example I was invited to take part in the alula trail race in Saudi Arabia and I was able to discover some incredible land it was a real eye opener it was an opportunity and I heard a lot about the race for me it's a bit like that it's all about opportunities I was in Argentina recently because I got an invitation but I didn't know Argentina then there are preparation races that fit in with a goal like this year's hard rock or the UTMB I choose those races it's not really a question of opportunity the UTMB is for the 20th anniversary of my first participation in 2004 but other than that I like to do these Discovery races like you were talking about in Saudi Arabia it's about having a race that's a bit of a journey are there any races you'd like to discover there are still plenty of countries I haven't visited some cultures attract me more than others even if I'm more attracted by Landscapes I'm not really a city dweller at heart I'm a bit less at ease in a big city ludic it's hard to talk about racing without mentioning the UTMB so I suggest you listen to your sound [Music] [Applause] extract managing to finish first so I find myself in 50th place because I spent 3 hours folded in half unable to walk up and down there you go I couldn't believe it top 10 I was thinking that's good and then to get to this you can hear it less than in your sound extract but there was also emotion it was perhaps a little less externalized yours it's a crazy memory in relation to this scenario I also finished with one of my daughters it was a spectacular comeback yes the scenario multiplies the emotions you can have at the Finish Line although you'll see soon enough in fact I think the more you go Ultra the more your emotions linked to are multiplied tfold and what's more with all the twists and turns you don't necessarily believe it when it happens eight years on how do you look back on this race of course I think it's brought a certain visibility to the discipline it helped the development of trail running it helped the development of races you can't take away what the UTMB has done for trail running I think it makes a lot of people dream it's still the most famous Trail race if you ask people all over the world what trail running is and if they know a race I think there's a 90% chance it's the UTMB so it remains a challenge and a goal for many Runners just starting out including me but you in particular because you live next door so I think it's a bit like with the reunion and the dional which everyone dreams of doing we've talked about the UTMB apart from the marathon that's a bit special for you in Paris what's your most accomplished race to date before this year's CCC well I'd say it was my OCC because it was the first time I'd ever done a semi longdistance race it was long for me it took me 12 hours which is a long long time and I actually made it to the end when I got to artier I had to go back up to LA and I said I don't feel like it but if I go left here we stay in the valley it goes faster that's the downside of knowing the place and the fact of having gone all the way and having managed to say to myself I'll put my brain down and then I'll go I'll climb and I say to myself I can actually do it it was also a big trigger and a big accomplishment to say to myself well yeah you've done it when was this it was in 2022 you said you didn't feel like going up the last climb to but you're going back anyway and what makes you enjoy it what motivates you to go back and what pushes you to go for longer I think it's the pain of it so you're a bit of a masochist is that what you want do you have to be when you love a sport whatever the sport you love the pain associated with each sport for example if I'm asked to go weight training I say no because I hate the pain that comes with weight training that muscle that heats up on the other hand the feeling you get when you're running when you're trail running the pain when you're climbing in fact I think yeah I like it but I think it might be more or less the same for you so for me there's there's the trail and then there's the ultra Trail and it's true that the first time I actually took part in the diagonal in 2009 there were times I thought it's not possible what am I doing here what are we doing here I find that there are emotions then you're going to find resources like you were saying but it's not possible to have so many variations to be so bad at one moment and then at the end to be able to finish and be much better at others is that why you increase the distance do you want to find out more about this or have you already discovered it on shorter distances even on a 20 km run sometimes I think what am I doing here yeah I think it's to push myself a bit further and really see how far I can go and mentally too it's about pushing the limits of the Mind and I think there's also all the dopamine you get at the Finish even if for example I finish an OCC in 12 hours you get cheered like you're killing Jour wow it's true that it's always difficult to put into perspective what you're doing it's a race you do for yourself and in the end it's a bit of a personal pleasure it's totally personal after the CCC what's your next step your dream race is it the UTMB or are there other things other races yeah the UTMB I really discovered trail running in 2017 when I discovered shamoni I saw the start and I said wow I have to run this incredible race the emotions brought tears to my eyes and I said to myself one day I'll have to line up for this race that's why I had to do all this training too because I don't have the aptitude I don't run easily and so I have to train maybe two or three times harder than the others to get three or four times less results but to get through these time barriers and succeed [Music] [Applause] okay in 2018 you went through a saturation period of self-doubt and introspection about your source of motivation and how did the fire come back it's true I was wondering if I hadn't done all the races if I really still wanted to continue running we were talking about certain constraints in terms of work and family and having completed a few races in particular the UTMB did I really want to continue and that was a bit of research into why I was running so there was a bit of discussion and exchange with a colleague at work who does a bit of mental preparation and we talked about it and yes I've regained my motivation while still setting myself race and performance goals and has your source of satisfaction in racing changed over time of course I can't necessarily do the same races I used to because I still have a certain performance objective as I was saying so there are some races they're still open but I don't feel at all competitive on them there's no secret to longevity no unfortunately I haven't found it after that I'll change things up a bit when you're on an ultra you don't necessarily need the same abilities and there may be other criteria that come into play not just physical fitness so yeah that's about it and on a more personal note what are your activities what do you do in your spare time I'm a trail Runner so it's trail running and swimming lessons I do a lot a lot of sports I don't only do trail running but I also spend a lot of time in the mountains because it's way for me to recharge my batteries I don't have very high social batteries so it's a way of recharging my social batteries being in the mountains and breathing fresh air cooking I love cooking reading in the evening I like reading and then managing social networks well that's still a hobby but it takes time to come up with ideas to think about posting to create montage and what are your hobbies as you were saying training takes up a significant amount of time apart from work and the time we spend with our families so there's not a lot of leisure time our travels are also focusing on racing so we like to travel we took a family trip to South Africa once when it wasn't the Cape Town Ultra we weren't there for a race but I think that's the only exception after that matching a race with a vacation is cool I don't read much I don't go to the movies either I watch a few TV series from time to time I understand that your goal is to be retired by the time you're 50 what would you like to do after that I'd like to travel and do Sports it's a goal we've set ourselves it's also related to the object I presented earlier we built this house with the aim of returning more to the mountains but it was with the aim of retiring a little earlier actually retiring doesn't mean stopping everything I don't intend to stop doing sport for the time being I hope it can continue continue to travel and take a little more time for things we don't necessarily have time for maybe a little more time with my family there are certain things I regret things I could never get back especially with my parents there's time I'd like to spend with the girls maybe that'll be possible and then to do certain things where you don't take the time to do them properly and it's always a bit on the fly a bit less square a bit more on compromise where you do things not as well as you'd like to do them so you have a bit more time and sometimes to do nothing more time yeah so now we have to answer questions that are drawn at random and you have the chance to start wow if you could go back in time what advice would you give to the child you were that's a tough one I'd say it would be to listen less to others listen more to myself focus more my desires and less on pleasing others and putting myself on the back burner because I've always been a bit of a people pleaser and I've always listened less to what I wanted to do and maybe start saying to myself listen if people criticize you you don't care do what you want to do and uh I probably would have started running earlier I'm hoping for an easier question there are easy questions and difficult ones so what's your greatest quality and your worst flaw quality I would say maybe in fact the mind I have a hard time letting go is that a quality or a flaw maybe a bit of both it could be both worst flaw maybe not expressing what I feel too much especially to my family if you ask my family that question I think that might be it keeping things to myself well now that we know each other a little better let's play a game we're going to make some statements about ourselves I'll tell you three questions about me but only one of them is true and you have to guess which one it is the first one is when I was training in monmart a few days before the marathon I was doing a live stream on Instagram and I happened to run into into cased ver who trains there a lot because it's the only place where you can climb poor guy so he was really nice and we chatted for a few minutes which my followers and I still remember as you said in my presentation I had a kind of a stroke it's called cerebral Thum fitis and so in the clinic where I was there was a swimming pool where I was cones as well as keeping in touch with a familiar environment I had the opportunity to teach swimming to a 74-year-old lady who was in Rehabilitation and then the third as you know I run for fun and I took part in the Disney half marathon dressed as B the princess from Beauty and the Beast what do you think they're also possible come on I mean you met Alex at the Paris Marathon I did meet Alexandre but it wasn't at the Paris Marathon it was at the utj okay so which one was true it's the princess costume I love running in disguises now it's my turn now it's my turn while working on my house I was almost crushed to death by a mechanical shovel the job was far from finished I would have been angry if I had given up along the way but that's not my style this is the first one I took part in the s in 2014 very occasionally I listen to music at the start this happened this time distracted by the music in my headphones I thought I heard the start signal and took off at high speed after about 20 m I realized that I was the only one who had left I made it back to the finish line to the Applause of the other Runners it was a nice if slightly embarrassing moment if that's true I understand on the 18th of February 1991 I still remember the date a friend invited me to go to a concert in Geneva it was an American rock band that I didn't know at the time and whose name happen to be nana they weren't very well known at the time I managed to get drummer Dave Gro to sign a copy of the CD he's no cut C but hey that was something I've become a big fan since then and I think it's a valuable item so which are true which false um I'd say I'm hesitating between the first and the last between Nana and the mechanical shovel I'd say the first one's true that's right mechanical shovel well done a mechanical shovel accident that put me in a coma and then I was lucky because the shovel over turned I was under it and it didn't fall on me its tracks got stuck against the wall of the house and it stayed there wow until someone came to rescue me you also experienced something that could have changed your life but that's life experience that's it anyway congratulations well done so ly one Ludo zero [Music] well Ludovic it's time for the questions from the UTMB World Series community that we received on social networks and we have a question from anine who asks can you be a party goer and an athlete at the same time Onan what kind of a question is that it depends on the time of year yeah but when you're close to a goal it's hard to be festive it's like eating at least sometimes I think even if I say I don't pay much attention to my diet it's like everything else you can't go overboard you can have exceptions but they have to stay exceptions I think Ultra is something you think about a little bit every day we also have a question from Juliet do you have to work or could you be a full-time professional athlete I have to work in any case I didn't choose to become a professional because I was already married I already had my daughters and it was getting complicated to concentrate on sport now I feel that my life is finished we've done things that we don't necessarily need to do anymore and now I feel that I can make a living out of it because I still get something out of it but without the risk of injury so I think it's possible to make a living in France it all depends on what your goals are whether you're single or not and what level you're at and then we have a question from Susanna who asks what do you do with all the trophies you've collected over the years now we have fewer and fewer trophies there are a few scattered around the house uh there used to be quite a few cups classic cups I've got some in a box somewhere and now I mostly keep the trophies that stand out I even keep some of the special cups thank you Susanna for the question ldy you've already told us about the CCC and your desire to take part in the UTMB in the longer term do you have any other Ambitions sporting or otherwise a tour or something crazier maybe an Ironman for a change stay in the ultra endurance but uh always in this Optica of oh I'm disappointed uh 3.9 km swim oh yes that's it okay that's interesting I'm going to tell you about my experience so you might change your mind I did an Iron Man on BR man the same distance I hated the swimming because I couldn't swim for a while but that won't be a problem for you it's not the most difficult no just for the atmosphere I'll stay on the trail anyway yeah what I didn't like about being a runner and the pelan was the referees the fact that you couldn't ride side by side on the bike or that you couldn't chat I've had some experience but I think the atmosphere is still the same I think you have to live it for the sporting objective I think it's cool to do that well you'll see you'll make your own experience you're getting ready to celebrate the 20th anniversary of your first participation in the UTMB do you have any other plans for this year we talked about that hard rock after the UTMB I haven't made any plans for this year we'll see how the UTMB goes and maybe it'll be more of a discovery race a trip as a couple no time targets at least for me anyway I'm a competitor so I annoy my wife when we do it together even on the diag I pushed her a bit at the end of the race to keep her place so it's probably uh traveling race thank you very much for this exchange of views thank you very much and I wish you all the best as we say here near Switzerland for your goals and maybe we'll meet in shamoni yeah maybe in shamoni there aren't many people there so we should normally bump into each other yes but depending on what time I arrive I may stay behind the line things anyways lots of good things and a good UTMB above all it's on and I'm going to be a bit more square with my diet and all that I'll take my quue from you that's a [Music] wrap and that's it for today we hope you had a great time and that you're feeling inspired to go out for a run if so please leave us a five-star review on Apple podcast or Spotify and share this episode with your friends colleagues or Trail Partners subscribe so you don't miss our upcoming episodes we'll see you next month for another encounter so you live in a celebrities neighborhood is that what you think Trail stars are all about we see them often especially in July I guess you see all the people doing the reconnaissance even with the marathon there are plenty of people coming