Spotlight on Penn State receiver recruiting and class growth; exploring Lions' defensive depth chart

[Music] welcome back into the lions 247 podcast I am Tyler Don you hope everybody is off to a great start with this July this is a holiday week we got the fourth coming up on Thursday I hope you have something special planned for it uh with your family friends wherever it takes you the holiday this year um we have some travel going on at our site uh we're going to come to you with just this one podcast this week so we hope you do enjoy it we're going to pack a lot into it we have got more recruiting conversation coming up with Tyler calvaruso Penn State picked up yet another commitment it was a hell of a June for them we're going to break down the commitment spree that they experienced adding nine players to the 2025 recruiting class they also tacked on a four-star quarterback from Southern California to their 2026 recruiting class we'll go through some of the Peaks and valleys of this month of June and and the fireworks that happened with Tyler Calvary so for some highlights and we'll also take a closer look at look at Jeff exer Jr the wide receiver from Maryland who hopped on board with this class the latest commitment that came through on Friday evening a little bit later here in this episode Daniel Gallen will rejoin us if you missed our last episode of this podcast we spent a significant amount of time breaking down our expectations for Penn State's offensive depth chart As It prepares for preseason camp at the start of August just a month away now we're going to shift over to the defensive side of the football there's a new position in play to look at there's a lot of movement in in terms of uh guys moving to different position and guys rising up the ranks as a year older so Daniel and I will work our way through position by position on the defensive depth chart a little bit later but as promised here is Tyler calvaruso was a busy man for us during the month of June we get him back here hopefully get to take a deep breath at the start of July look back a little bit at what went down in the last month so Tyler as I said last time we had you on killer work in the month of June we kind of hit the reset button here in July it's a different part of the recruiting calendar um and and we made it through June it's in the books officially yeah different part of the recruiting calendar but uh still plenty busy of a time which is good we've got some commitments coming down the pipeline plenty to reflect upon June when it comes to penat recruiting efforts in the 25 class and even the 26 class moving forward so we're in a dead period but it's never dead Yeah you mentioned pipeline I'm going to seize on that and go over to the McD school down in Maryland we talked about a bunch guys like Devon Elise PJ muster Curtis Jacobs uh Deni Dennis Sutton you've got the red sh freshman now Mason Robinson working his way through at defensive end u a lot of history with this school they bat 50% they they they go they go one for two last week there Tyler calaro Brandon Finny the top cornerback Target ends up picking Oregon last week but then Friday evening Jeff exer Jr forced our wide receiver guy who's long been on the Penn State Target board we've discussed him quite a bit he does indeed go with the NY Lions after taking one long look at nearby Maryland Maryland definitely gave him a lot to think about during his official visit but I said it last week just given the relationship that egar had with Kenny Sanders and the pente staff it just it continued to feel like a tough one where you could Envision Penn State losing it and that wound up not happening Marcus hains comes in and seals the deal on a guy who has been one of his top names on the wide receiver board really for an extended period of time now eer is involved in with Penn State even pre Ates his time as a wide receiver prospect there was a point where it looked like he was going to be an edge rusher at the next level but he gos into a wide receiver frame highly productive player for McDon at that position and Penn State closes on another one of its top targets and I like the skill set here on exner got the chance to see him in Baltimore in May during Under Armour camp and I like the floor especially I think egner is a very high floor player physically he's already ready to roll I mean he has a big 10 body already he's mentioned to me potentially shedding a little bit of weight and playing a little bit lighter to add some speed at the next level but either way physically exner is where he needs to be he's got good hands he's got a diverse route tree he's got scheme versatility can line up on the outside line up on the inside so there's a lot to like about this get if you're a Penn State fan exer we've got him listed at 62 220 pounds at at at 247 Sports um he is the number 10 athlete nationally in in 247 Sports rankings with a four star rating and he is the number six player in the state of Maryland and so when we look at the recruitment uh and the relationships that were in play here you've talked about them in the past how ultimately was Penn State able to you know stiff arm that late push from the turps to try to get him to stick and build something closer to home and ultimately bring him on board as the 20th member of this 2025 class there are two parts of it their relationships you know definitely being important Kenny Sanders and his you know they go way back that's well documented at this point for our listeners and the relationship with Hagen has developed into a pretty good place the relationship with James Franklin has been a good place since xer was an underclassman the other aspect really to get it done was the schematic aspect of its pitch you know what Andy cotal noi had to say to him about getting him the ball in a multitude of ways in Penn State's offense that really appealed to egner in his camp and our Guy Brian Don he had a great piece on this right after exner's commitment on why Kansas's tape and the film that Kansas put out on offense during the 2023 season when it boasted a really really explosive offense with cot Nikki at the helm how that helped to get exner on board it helped him to visualize his potential part in Penn State's offense and given his strengths and how he can impact the game in a couple different ways given what he does well as a pass catcher so I'd say the relationships and really just the scheme fit worked heavily in Penn State's favor here and help helped Penn State to really fend off Maryland in the end you know Virginia Tech made a strong push for exner when he got him on campus for an official visit in April but as time went on Penn State reinserted itself as the favorite and then Marilyn gave him something to think about you know Marilyn did a good job it seemed in schematic pitch in its own right but Penn State's pitch W up being better and exner committed to the nitting lons I'm glad you brought up that that piece from Brian D that was on our site over the weekend Brian of course for those who listen for those who don't uh he is a national recruiting analyst with 247 Sports does a great job uh documenting so much of the inner workings of a lot of these recruitments and he had a story on our site about exer sitting down with codel Nikki as Tyler mentioned it wasn't just watching any Kansas state from last year they pinpointed Kansas tape against Oklahoma and against Texas you know the bad big boys of the Big 12 who have now since moved on to the SEC um and it seems like that spoke volumes in showing what he was able to do to get Playmakers in space regardless of who the competition is and what we saw from Kansas last year was often regardless of who's at quarterback uh their ability to to get the ball to their Playmakers and so interesting way to get it done there because Annie koniki I don't think he's gonna point to the blue white game in Beaver Stadium as as his proudest offensive cut UPS because we're not going to see a lot in that circumstance so right now you can understand why he's selling what he's accomplished in the past and by the way a reminder he was named 247 Sports offensive coordinator of the year for the plays he drew up in Kansas last fall um when it comes to exner highly productive as you said that he settled in at the receiver spot as a recruit in that position 64 catches last season as a junior 900 plus yards 11 touchdowns and so he comes on board he pairs up with L Samuel to create a two-man class at receiver for now L Samuel out of New York long long limb wide receiver rangier type body um I think he's about 30 pounds lighter than Jeff xon and probably an inch and a half taller um so they're very different pieces how would you describe them as kind of complimentary Parts in the foundation of this receiver class that we do expect to grow 's definitely more refined at this point his development I mentioned the high floor earlier Samuel might have a higher ceiling I think the upside there is pretty intriguing from Penn State's perspective you know he's still pretty raw as a receiver but you see a lot of the traits that a high level wi out possesses his catch radius is really impressive he's around 64 180 so he's got the requisite length to be a vertical threat for Penn State lined up on the outside and he's gonna continue in his physical development he has a frame that can still pack on some pounds and he'll still be the same player at least that's the thought process so Samuel is definitely less of a finished product than xar at this point in his development and they're both different prospects which I'd say is a good thing for Penn State because you're not adding two of the same guys you're adding both guys who can help your offense in different kind of ways so I think right now the state of the class Marcus Hagins has done a good job this cycle getting those two on board I I think it's a good Duo to start and there's still more to come at the position been a lot of positive news to talk about with Penn State on the recruiting Trail this pendulum's going to swing a little bit with our next piece to get to Penn State had hoped to perhaps book end this last weekend with big pick pickups at receiver exer on Friday evening and then you had Matthew Alton down in Virginia top 20 top 24 7 in fact the top 200 overall Prospect down there at the receiver spot and he made his announcement on Monday afternoon you talked about Virginia Tech being in play for exer they got it done without he committed to the hookies on Monday afternoon so Penn State's one of those teams kind of left at the doorstep in that recruitment perhaps the team left at the doorstep how would you categorize this Miss in terms of the ramifications for what they want to accomplish in this receiver cycle it's a loss no doubt about it you know at was one of those guys who was pretty high on the board for Penn State and it sounded good for the nitt Lions coming out of their official visit earlier in June but Virginia Tech got out and on campus during the last weekend of June and the hokeys wound up surging getting him on board you know Penn State had reason for optimism even Maryland had reason for optimism here with outon but he decides to stay in state sued up for Brent pry and his step in blackburg I think that W it's definitely a loss not doubt about it I think the blow is softened by who is left on the board at wide receiver when you look at some of the quality names still left on the board I'm really high on all of those guys I I think we're talking about four guys who could go on to have really successful Collegiate careers regardless of where they wind up Lex Cyrus is the big one you know the instate speed Speedster it's coming down to Penn State South Carolina for him Kobe Howard's a name who continues to pop up in conversation think things are gon to go a little bit slower with him from Penn State side but he's a talented wide out from Florida Samari Reed another Florida standout who's on the verge of a decision really talented guy you guys got the chance to see him in seven on seven in State College last summer Big Time vertical threat really just kind of Glides down the field with the way he moves kind of like lric Samuel in the sense that he has the requisite traits of a potential big-time vertical threat and then Taz Williams who has a case to you know maybe be the most exciting of the bunch given his tape is him going out there on a weekly basis against some of the top competition in Texas and really just producing no matter what he has to do to get to that point rout Tre is diverse good hands really really tough kid every coach that we talk to about with Taz Williams Praises his toughness and just his all the intangibles that you can't necessarily quantify or see on film so out and it is what it is you know you're going to take your losses in recruiting every I think every college football fan knows that but given what is behind out and on Penn State's wide receiver board it's definitely not a sky falling scenario in my opinion I think as we were entering June and kind of navigating the scene at wide receiver and it's changed a bit since then certainly the two names that you really pair together at the top of the board were Quincy Porter who ultimately came off uh came off the target board going to Ohio State in their class last month and then the man we just discussed and Matthew outon down at Virginia um when we look at how things are kind of resettling now with with exen now in the class and these guys going elsewhere you mentioned four guys there in your personal view you've had a chance to review some film you've had a chance to see some of those in Camp who would be the top of thee board guy from that collection I'm not trying to Short Change anybody but when you say the prize among that realistic collection of commits we're not just working our way through the receiver rankings at 247 Sports and picking out the top five guys on the list we're working through realistic options right now here in July of 2024 who do you think is is the premier member of that group it's like Cyrus I mean the speed is Elite what really impresses me about Cyrus is he's standing at 510 but his length for a guy that size is really really impressive wingspan is where it needs to be as almost I believe it's 33 inch arm so I mean when you have a guy at 510 with that kind of length you know he has catch radius that a lot of guys his size simply do not have and he's got the Elite Speed already and it's not just speed with Cyrus either you know there's so much talk about him being a track star and sometimes track kids they're not as refined as receivers because their game is simply speed that's not the case with Lex Cyrus he has a good release I'd want to see more of him as a route Runner I think just because sus his offense is structured a certain way where they try to make use of his speed that limits the rout Tre a little bit but man his fluidity I think he's going to continue to develop as a route Runner he's got good hands I've seen that since last summer so there's a lot to like with Cyrus I think the guy who gives him probably the closest run for his money would be Taz Williams kind of for the reasons I outline just does a little bit of everything for you at wide receiver and he does a little bit of everything pretty pretty well so for me it's Cyrus but Taz Williams very much in that conversation as well and I do love Samari Reed too I think he's got big time potential as an outside threat I told you a little bit of uh Jan doson to Lex Cyrus's game when we saw him uh a couple weeks ago during that seven on seven tournament there's just a smooth smess to him that there's a layer there that that I know that Jan didn't have the the the track speed but but when you watch him just kind of work his way downfield seems to find a way to to find Space seems to find a way to ditch the defender um and it just seems natural out there I remember that really standing out with Jan doson when he was a guy who at the high school level wasn't producing you know tremendous 40 yard dash times and oh by the way he end up doing that by the time he was done with Penn State and up being a first round pick uh but Williams to me a kind of very you know you categorize him differently because he's got we've gotten looks at him not just from the the junior film but he's put out some tape of what he's doing on the summer camp circuit we've seen some of that and and I mean the the footwork in place here I mean I know that we were kind of all enamored by tyer Denmark's workout videos of late and what we saw from him you know shades of that in terms of a guy who's attacking Defenders downfield with a lot of confidence right now and seems to have a lot of in his repertoire that he can use and kind of on the other end with Lex Cyrus not necessarily the verified burner results that that that maybe is that Penn State is coveting from its entire package at wide receiver you know the speed is something that we've discussed with him but the production was there last year in Texas 80 catches 1,200 yards 14 touchdowns on the season as a junior and as you said it's not a bunch of scrub competition that he's facing with red oak so with t Williams I'm just going to throw this out here before we move on from the receiver spot felt like the the the the Good Vibrations were there as he was heading out of Happy he went on the record with with some strong comments about how he felt about that visit how it impacted his recruitment we're now a couple weeks away from that are the warm and fuzzies still in place as far as you can tell have we moved on from that period a little bit and it's kind of resettled with Penn State duking it out with other schools what what's your read on where it is with Taz Williams now because he wants to make a July decision correct yeah July 13th we haven't really moved on from that that positive Buzz is still very much in place Michigan and Texas A&M were involved pretty pretty heavily throughout the summer and official visit season seems like things have kind of tailed off there so right now I'd say it's probably coming down to Penn State and SMU you know SMU excuse me SMU local option for Taz Williams I know he's a Pittsburgh native and he's from PA but the fact of the matter is he's down in Texas so it is still a a form of a local option for him and we all know SMU could be competitive in the nil field if it comes to that so I'd say it's between those two right now still giving Penn State The Edge the buzz remains in Penn State's favor and the Intel remains pointing towards Penn State so a lot can happen between now and the 13th we still have got a little bit about a week and a half before then and you know you've got some other dominoes to fall on the wide receiver board as well but sounds good for Penn State right now that's ACC newcomer SMU out of the Dallas area and and I just will throw one more thing I lied about that I one more thing for yet wide receiver do you think this class doubles when it's all said and done is this a four-man class at the end of the day um in in terms of your projection 20 guys on board total in the recruiting cycle two of them at wide receiver and I'll just reemphasize uh the Freshman Class they brought in 2023 was a oneman show was Carmello Taylor and he's not with the program anymore so you have the three current freshmen and then you're trying to stack the next class on top of them adding two more is definitely the goal fors the number at wide receiver this cycle I'd say we've touched on four talented guys and with four being the number really they're only two spots up for greb so they're going to be you know they not pen State's not just going to welcome everyone on board you know they're they still in a position where they could you know kind of formulate a pecking order I'd say Williams and Cyrus are probably at the top of that order right now they really like some morei Reid too and Howard Howard's interesting because again I think it's going to go a little bit longer with him he's told me that he wants to make visits in the fall and I think that Penn State's taking him things with him a little bit slower than the other three guys but four is the number and and I think the four that Penn State winds up with just again this just really comes down how highly I view these guys I think the four that Hagen winds up with in the end will just be a solid group because you evaluate some of these guys and you look at their strengths and it's kind of hard not to be impressed with what they bring to the table we've got a write up at lines 247.com this week about early evaluation of the current freshman receiver group Josiah Brown tyer Denmark Peter Gonzalez with perspective from Penn State general manager Andy Frank Penn State receivers coach Marcus haens you can check that out over at Lines 247.com Tyler we're gonna get uh to dive into the depth chart in a little while with Daniel gallon and go position by position on defense but I think we owe it to the month of June to check our rearview mirror now that we're in early July nine players were added to the 20125 recruiting class it goes to a 20 Man Group all of a sudden it's ranked eighth nationally in 247 Sports oh by the way Troy Hune the top 247 quarterback from Southern California joins Messiah mckin to form a really impressive pair in that 2026 class early on and when I look at the impact here Tyler it's pretty easy I can go over to 247sports.com click on Penn State's class and as I scroll through the top five guys in these ratings for the class have been added since June 10th Darius Dixon the cornerback out of Southern California Jaylen Woods The Ed rusher from Kansas Max Granville The Edge rusher from Texas jir Joseph the cornerback from New Jersey and the man we just spent a lot of time discussing at the top of the show wide receiver Jeff exner Jr from Maryland so very much a transformational month for the recruiting class we it often is that's why we hype up the month of June so much I've got a few questions to throw your way regarding what we just witness and we'll start with one that you could takeen in a lot of different directions considering the success what was the most impressive recruiting win for Penn State in June 2024 man there's so many there's so many good ones to choose from here I I've gotta go with I think Max Granville being able I said this last week for Deon Barnes to be able to go down to Texas and get his top tie on the board over programs like Oklahoma which was involved with Granville for a really long time Texas A&M strong strong local option for him USC was appealing to Granville as well well for Deon Barnes to go down to Texas and get that that one done that's probably for me at least and there have been plenty impressive recruiting jobs here by Penn State this cycle that's got to be the most impressive I mean Granville is a hell of a talent but it just goes beyond that bnes put his big boy pants on to win that battle there's no doubt about it that was a big time win for Penn State it was a tough one you know he popped on Granville popped onto the board as a top Target for Barnes and the staff really in the winter and it put in so much effort to l him from that point on and we've seen instances where pen State goes outside of his traditional recruiting footprint pours a ton of energy and effort into a recruitment gets close but the guy decides hey I'm I'm gonna just stay in my region I I want to stay a little bit closer to home not the case here Penn State really pushed all the right buttons with Granville in its pitch I mean the developmental side of the pitch is really what so Granville and his family they feel Barnes is the guy that can develop him get the best out of him and get him to the next level so out of the really impressive Bunch that it's got to be Granville for me just I keep coming back to him and I say wow Penn State got that one done that's a hell of a job I knew you were going in that direction and and I'm an agreement with you um and I just have a have a strong feeling that a year from now when we're talking about which freshman could make some noise in preseason camp he's going to be one of the first names that we're reeling off just because of where he's going to be at when he gets here to campus and how I think he's going to take to the whole situation here in Happy Valley what Penn State's going to throw his way exciting exciting pickup he's a top 200 guy he was a coveted Prospect one of the more prized pass rushers in this cycle let's go a little bit more under the radar and talk about a recruiting win from June that maybe didn't warn as much headlines maybe didn't even warn as much conversation here between us in the podcast but that you think long term is going to be a very important pickup for the Pro Antonio Branch I think is the guy who stands out to me in that regard I think he's going to be a fourstar safety Prospect when it's all said and done I just really like the versatility of his skill set he's got the coverage ability he's definitely not shy when it comes to coming down a run support and laying the wood making tackle so I think Branch with his frame he's not the traditional Anthony Point Dexter safety in the sense that he's around 62 172 you know he's not as bulky as some of the guys pen has landed at the position in the past but I see the coverage ability for for him to play essentially as a center fielder in one high looks and then you know when he has to walk down come into the box and make plays and run support he can do that as well another thing with branch is again outside praise he just comes across as a leader you know this is going to be his first season Miami Northwestern and the praise from that staff has already been pretty high regarding Branch his leadership ability kind of taking control of that defense pretty quickly upon arriving at the program so there again another situation where we could have went a couple different ways but for me it's Branch tough call because there's a lot of guys who I think are kind of maybe flying under the radar a little bit you know Bradwell Thomas was one so you they're definitely a bunch of candidates for that category branch number 37 right now at the safety position in 247 Sports assessment there's definitely a South Florida flavor right now in this Penn State class you could see more of that to come as the 2024 2025 cycle continues forward Tyler I'm going to throw a question to you with a two-parter here biggest surprise recruiting result for you from the month of June in Penn State for Penn State and this means both both good surprise and I'm looking for also maybe a disappointing bad surprise for NY Lions fans good surprise probably the commitment of Darius Dixon anytime you can get a top 100 Corner in your class it's big time but when you go out to the West Coast and get him coming off an official visit I mean that that wasn't one that I necessarily saw coming as imminently as it came together I mean less than 24 hours after wrapping up the official visit Dixon was part of Penn State's recruiting class and I even speculated leading up to Dixon's visit you know is he really going to leave the West Coast I thought of the two California visitors that weekend the other being a wide receiver Philip Bell that Dixon was more likely to venture off the West Coast but I thought he'd at least make it to Tennessee to check out the vs for his official visit before doing that so I I didn't realize things were going to come together that quickly really until Monday morning when we started to get feedback that hey look Dixon's going to be getting into this class here so that's my biggest surprise from a positive standpoint I guess biggest negative surprise would probably be Brandon finny to Oregon you know that was one pence they feel felt really good about for a long time and Oregon kind of came in late got that one done know Oregan did they tend to do that on the trail you know they do a good job they do a good job with their nil Dan lenning and his staff do a good job of selling kids on their roles you know Oregon's been on a run in recruiting for a pretty big time run here really over the last two weeks nil has definitely played a big part in that but it's also just that's a good staff out there in Eugene and Penn State fans are going to get to know that here pretty soon with Oregon being in the Big 10 now so that would probably be the biggest negative surprise there and I don't even think Penn State's gonna be done with finny until he you know signs on the dotted line with Oregon so we'll be keeping an eye on that one moving forward and I'm sure Jeff xoner Jr will be keeping an eye on that one moving forward those guys are going to be getting in preseason camp together spending a lot of time together as McDon school teammates down in Maryland one picked Penn State this past week the other picked Oregon still a while to go though five and a half months or so until signing day here for the 2025 class and toughest outcome of June I I guess this doesn't necessarily have to mean results that have already happened there are recruits that have kind of moved on from Penn State during the month of June that entering this month that we we thought the nney Lions would be in the mix for if not Landing a commitment from so when you think about the the toughest outcome for June for Penn State we've talked about a lot of good we got to balance it out a little bit here where do you land I mean not to keep talking about finny but I feel like it's got to be that in in this category too just given his placement on the board his skill set and the upside that he possesses he's not a finished product at cornerback just yet right we're not talking about a guy who's going to come in from year one and have that big 10 ready skill set he's still developing but he's got Elite athleticism Elite Speed and he has all of the tools that Terry Smith has coached up out of guys in the past and he has sent those guys off to the NFL finny could have been next and hey look maybe he even still is next depending on how things play out in the coming months like I said Penn State's not going to go away in that recruitment for a bunch of reasons that you know go beyond finny's Talent too MCD so you've got the ties there and the relationships with finny are in a really good place even though he went off to Oregon so that's got to be the toughest outcome just given who finny is as a prospect his Prospect profile the high school he comes from again I hate to keep harping on him because you know we kind we like to switch it up a little bit when we do these make it more fun but it's got to be fny for toughest outcome for me you surprised me with that one I thought you were gonna say Andrew olish drifting away from the nitty Lions he has placed his Focus now on Michigan and Alabama did make it to Happy Valley here instate guy um but I can understand the finny conversation because because it's one that that even you know days before that announcement that that you know you thought they could go two for two at MCD and then things change late um but a lot more than good than bad no doubt about it for the nitty Lions during the month of June and as they exit June what are the now established positions of strength within this recruiting class and what are the pretty clear positions where there still needs to be work done and and things accomplished in these coming months weeks cornerback looks good even with finny going off to Oregon Edge looks really good for Deion Barnes at this point he's yet to strike on the interior and we were looking at maybe Randy Adara going off the board over the weekend that wound up not happening his recruitment's rolling on into this week Penn State looks good there but you know still got to see Miami USC involved so Edge looks really good I think the offensive Line's in a good place Malachi Goodman is really just the top name left on the board for Phil TR wi at this Point there's not a whole lot behind him you know that I again I come back to what we've been saying pen is not going to reach on a guy it's not sold on so really it's just Goodman on that old line board right now but the group of Alis Troutman know BR O'Hara coming into that mix I I I think I like some of the upside there especially with Alis uh wide receivers off to a solid start like I said two more to come there if all goes well and egner and Samuel I think they going to be good players for Penn State love the running back Trio really do T hay seen him in person seven on seven watching the junior season film I mean really really good player we can beat you in a ton of different ways R Wallace Coleman kind of the same deal more of a PowerBack will beat you between the tackle but he can catch in passes too so there's some versatility to his game and I'm really interested to see what Keandre Barker is as a senior now that he's back in Arkansas so I think go just going position group by position group and I think they're good at quarterback with crits and tight end with Matt Henderson as well so I'm if I had to pinpoint a big maybe position of strength here for Penn State I'd probably go man it's tough because the quarterback group's really really yeah I'll probably go corner just because you got Dixon's the top 100 guy jir Joseph is a top 247 guy who was Terry Smith's top Target he's he brings so much to the table from an athletic standpoint Xavier Thomas is a prospect Penn State really really likes if I had to go another Direction probably be the edge just given who Max Granville is a prospect and now Jaden Woods as well I mean another top 247 Edge rusher in that group who is physically already ready to contribute if he had to and then of course Cortez Harris is on board as well and desan Bernett could be an edge at the next level depending on how things play out for him and those guys you know it gives Bernett a little bit more flexibility you know he could be still be a linebacker at the next level depending on how things play out but those two are the ones really standing out to me right now if you're Penn State you've got Henderson on board we've talked about him what he's going to do at tight end he's played wide receiver at the high school level he's not going to be able to roll early in January so he's going to campus next summer going to have a lot of weight to gain going to be going through that transition to play tight end developmental type guy you got a lot of clout in the in the recruiting world at the tight end spot uh you got a lot to point to with with oish moving elsewhere do you see Penn State trying to flex its muscles maybe getting a big time name or two to campus this fall is this a position that they can maybe view as a high-end luxury search or do you think that if it was just Matt Henderson and nobody else they would be okay with that well if it's just Matt Henderson and nobody else they would be okay with that for sure could they continue to look around at tight end you know work that flip front it's definitely possible and I say that because I think they're going to do that at every position as they do every cycle you know I I think Penn State's hunt for talent in the 2025 class will not come to an end until guys start signing you know there there's bunch of irons in the fire and you know they definitely uh they're definitely working on some things but would they be okay with just Henderson for sure you know they love the upside on him the athletic upside that he brings to the table at tight end he might you lay it out perfectly with him every time he comes up he might not be as ready to contribute right away as some of the other tight ends pen is welome on the campus in recent years but when he gets to where he needs to be in his development Pence is really really excited about what he could bring his pass catcher all right Tyler appreciate the perspective we're going to get to Daniel in a moment but anything that we probably won't have you on for for about a week this will be the only episode of of of this particular week during the holiday time so I want to give you a chance to to set the table for us I know you wrote something up at Li 247.com but what are we kind of monitoring during the month of July which is very different than how junea set up yo really at this point you're coming down to just commitments of key targets more and more guys are starting to go off the board we mentioned Samari Reid he's going to be this week Lex Cyrus should be soon possibly you know this week um well Randy Adica we touched on him you know he's he's coming down to it in his recruitment jayon Blair will be coming off the board on Friday top safety Target for Anthony Point deck Notre Dame chrisal ball favorite for him right now but Pence to give him a lot to think about during his official visit SE His official visit during the last weekend of OV season I've got to pick in for the Fighting Irish at this point there's a lot a lot of movement taking place on the commit front Rashad Johnson on July 14th jise Carter on July 18th so really throughout the month guys are going to be going off the board some of that might go Penn State's way some of it might go in a different direction so definitely stay tuned for that and then of course tucked away in that last weekend of of July is lash bash the annual uh festivity here at at Penn State football facilities that is always a big deal in drawing prospects from across the region different classes represented there that will be in conjunction with Penn State's final Prospect Camp of the year that comes the final weekend of July lie but Tyler it should be a little bit more opportunity to come up for aare uh catch our breath think more big picture with some stories rather than constantly reacting to breaking news like we did throughout the month of June so appreciate the perspective hope you enjoy some holiday time with you and yours and uh again great work in June I know you're gonna have it all for us Lions 247 this month of July as well yep thanks man appreciate it let's continue this episode of the Lions 24/7 podcast by bringing back on psych colleague Daniel Allan Daniel was on with us for our last episode last week breaking down where we think the offensive depth chart is as preseason camp is about a month away we're gonna switch perspectives now and go with the defensive side of things Daniel welcome back I know you're venturing far and wide across America right now with a really cool summer trip but I'm glad you could find a Stationary spot for a bit record this segment of course always always good to get the chance to talk some Penn State and uh you know I've been following along from the road with what's been another busy couple of weeks for the nney Lions that's right we we got the recruiting landscape covered on our first segment of this show with Tyler karuso breaking down a really busy month of June what we might be looking ahead to in July but we know what's right around the corner in August the first week of August back on the practice fields Penn State nitty Lions will be working their way toward August 31st kickoff on the road in Morgantown at West Virginia and if you missed it last Thursday I'd encourage you to check out all of our conversation we went position by position through the offensive side of things working our way through competitions to know roster risers key returners the newcomers and we're going to do the same thing right now Daniel we're going to begin at a position uh that lost to highlevel talented all big 10 players in chop Robinson and Adisa Isaac over at defensive end um as we're going to get to in a second no one's really working their way toward the panic button right now in Happy Valley at the Edge rusher spot despite losing the first round pick in chop Robinson and that third round pick in Adisa Isaac because of some movement because of some really big recruiting wins in the past and then you could probably say because of a blend of rising talent and and Veteran presence that is probably underappreciated because of what you've got at the very top rung of the ladder here yeah I mean it it's really hard to to not feel good about this defensive end position which is kind of wild to say when you think about losing a first round pick a third round pick and then which and then something I think we'll get to a little bit later is losing Zariah fiser uh you know a key depth piece for you know an unknown amount of time um I think even despite that you look at what they've done on the recruiting Trail what Deion Barnes has done as a developer uh with the defensive line group and you do feel good about what Penn State is what Penn State has there and a lot of that has to do with the two Headliners you've got two two Juniors two members of that class of 2022 Deni Dennis Sutton the the former five star and Abdul Carter the all big 10 linebacker who's making the move down I think you start with those two guys um a top your Edge rusher depth chart and it looks really really good yeah a lot of folks will tell you looking back at that pickup of of Deni Dennis Sutton a few Cycles ago from the McDon school we talked about Jeff xoner Jr following that pipeline for MCD for the 2025 class but back in the 2022 cycle when they beat out the lakes of Georgia and Alabama for his commitment we knew it was a big win and this is kind of that moment he's followed more of that natural progression coming to campus burning red shirt as a backup option last year remained largely a backup but actually played more snaps than anybody at the defensive end position when it was all said and done got a couple starts under his belt during the regular season when chop Robinson was on available started again in the peach ball and so before we get to abdil Carter who has kind of you made a a a stunning move of sorts after having so much success at linebacker through the first half of his college career now with with denight that of sudden this has kind of been the path laid out wait your turn do the best you can with the opportunities you're given and there was a lot of opportunities last year and while you do see abdor Carter flashing on a lot of those mock drafts that we saw pop up for way too early for the top for 2025 Deni Denis Sutton showed up about as much as anybody else so we're talking about two defensive ends who have yet to really got you know take full-fledged sharting roles at this spot and yet they are being discussed among the premier players among their peers nationally yeah and I think that you look at the the physical tools that both have and what they've done on the field in their action um I think that that really shows through I mean I'm really excited to see what Deni Denis suton can do as a starter I know that you mentioned that you know by the way that the snap shook out he still played a ton of football last year um and I think that he made a really nice impact uh for Penn State but you I think having him on the field from the jump I'm excited to see what that does for his production um and what he's able to do because he's six foot5 over 270 pounds uh is powerful can still move um I mean he's a little bit of kind of a different type of edge rusher than some of the guys that Penn State has had in recent years you know someone like odaf away chop Robinson Adisa Isaac you know those guys were still long but you know a little bit on the the Slender side I mean I think both chop and Adisa were under 250 pounds at times these past couple of years and so having that big body like Adisa Isaac or like the Sutton coming off the edge Abdul Carter is creeping up uh you know over 260 pounds I mean I think that you can have two really physically imposing guys coming off the edge and I'm really excited to see you know what that does and you know especially for a guy like Deni Don Sutton who you know was that fstar recruit you know you look at the other schools he was considering you know that was such a huge win for Penn State on the recruiting Trail and then to kind of be in a little bit more of a I don't want to call it a backseat but not quite that prominent role over his first two years I'm excited for him to get the chance to be on that National landscape and really show what he can do from that defensive end spot you bring up a good point about his his physical makeup being a bit different you think about o Arnold de chop Robinson Adiza Isaac shakon these guys were all under 255 260 pounds some of them spent a lot of their career under 250 pounds um and even from a hype standpoint I mean we've kind of joked about it here on the podcast they've got Deni listed at 6 foot5 but you get a chance to go face to face with him you're it's more like face to Chin for me at least eyes to Chin this guy takes up a lot of real estate so um we've always wondered if that 65 270 plus uh pound measurement was was quite accurate because he just seems to fill more space than that and a lot of excitement Brewing about what he can be in year three again following the Stepping Stones different process for Abdul Carter freshman All-American at the linebacker position he didn't start the first half of the season but he comes on like a wrecking ball as Penn State goes onto a rose bull Victory and he ends up being a six and a half sack guy his first year on campus last year took a little more longer for those sacks to pile up it was something that he started to do during the final stretch of the season and quite frankly probably took longer than we thought it would be to say Abdul Carter you know took over this game defensively Abdul Carter really swung the pendulum of this matchup he got there I'd say by Year's end but he still was a first team all big 10 selection at the linebacker spot despite maybe not delivering the start to finish dominant year that a lot of us projected now we get the word in January that he has made the move to defensive end ultimately comes to to to light that he was the one spearheading this move to the Ed rusher spot you've heard from Abdul Carter you've heard from Deon Barnes more recently Daniel the pieces are coming together here as we saw in Spring ball for him to be one of the most feared quick twitch Edge presences not just in the Big 10 but across college football right now and if you look at some of these Mock Draft projections he's in the top half of the first round and it's been a while you probably have to go back um you to to Really m a leading up to that 2020 year where there felt like there was this much professional Buzz around a defensive prospect I know Joey poter had had had first round noise so did kayin King this time last year but it's at a different wavelength right now feels like regarding the junior definitely I think that there's a lot of excitement from outside of Penn State about what Abdul Carter can accomplish this year what kind of player he can be based on what he's done these past two years and you look at the physical tools and you think about what the kind of the prototypical edge rusher looks like and you can really see it you can really visualize what it you know what Abdul Carter can be um you know coming off the edge um you know I we got really good feedback on him throughout the spring I mean it did feel like a little bit at the beginning that James Franklin tried to slow play it a tiny bit you know it's a new position something completely different um but by the end of the end of spring you had James Franklin saying uh it went better and faster than you maybe he could have ever imagined um I think that you heard I think Deni Denis Sutton was the one that said that there's one practice where Abdul Carter was just wrecking people um that he was just dominating and then I think the one thing that you have to add to it too is what we heard about Abdul Carter on the mental side of the game you know Zan Durant called him a sponge Devon J Thomas called him a sponge um you know Abdul Carter talked about you know talking to Adisa Isaac and chop Robinson to get pointers talking to the other defensive ends in the room um and I think that that was something for Deon Barnes that he was really impressed with Barnes told me last month that you he knew Abdul Carter through the recruiting process but those first two years uh Carter was in the linebacker room whereas Deion barns was with the defensive lineman and and now being able to coach him on a daily basis uh in that kind of intimate way that he's really seen the mindset um for Abdul Carter and he said that that's the reason why Abdul Carter is going to be successful it's because he has that mindset he wants to get better and he's going to do anything he can to get there so I think that when you talk about Carter making the switch kind of the the physical stuff is nice and hearing about what he's doing in practice but I think to really solidify it and lock it in as something to be impressed about uh you know that feedback from the meeting room I think kind of stands out maybe even more and even with these two Headliners we expect to see uh some rotational pieces like we did last year Beyond the starting lineup to keep guys light on reps especially as we as we see Penn State work its way through the first half or so of the Season before things really intensify with the schedule and the names you have to Spotlight here acknowledging as you did earlier that Zariah Fischer is on the shelf for a while injured during spring ball he's a guy who was injured a couple Springs too too it cost him really the entire 2022 season just about he came back for some late work last year was a a a a piece that was um ad depth piece but but flashed and then we heard some really good things about him during the winter into the early spring bowl and unfortunately right now sideline and definitely so with that in mind you still got pieces to work with Jal Lions maybe about as exciting a prospect that you'll find that hasn't really gone and done it yet um on this roster a guy that we saw in glimpses last year especially when he got some longer run in the peach bow he had a tfl in that matchup that was really impressive I thought but this is the guy that a lot of people will point to in team facilities and saying take your pick who's going to be a breakout contributor here in 2024 if you're talking about the defense if you're talking about the defensive line Jam Lions the sophomore is the name that really keeps popping up Philadelphia Edge rusher has really come along physically I can tell you seeing him just around the camp circuit a little bit this summer uh looks like he's about 22 years old and visiting from his new NFL draft home the way he's put together right now and then you got to mention Smith filbert who we haven't seen play regular season football since 2001 we saw him pop up for some Rose bow work we saw him get three sacks a couple of years ago on the Outback bow but those are his only three career sacks he's suddenly a sixe senior He's listed at about 290 pounds and he told us he has the ability to go inside maybe do some things as a versatile component of this defensive line group but his name elevated a little bit was Z Fisher out and then Aman vanover um you know it's kind of fitting that he's the last name that I'm getting to in in in this because it feels like he may be one of the more underrated pieces of this entire defensive unit James Franklin gave him a an unsolicited shout out coming out of spring camp for the work that he did for the work that they think he's gonna be do this fall uh he had a big blue white game for himself so put some of that on public display but again the two guys are the headliners they're going to command a lot of interest from people at the national level but those of us who have followed this team locally those of you who have listened consistently you know full well that Deon bar can go down the depth chart a bit at defensive end there's Five Guys without even getting to a Jaylen Harvey who's a true freshman Jordan Mayer Who I think is a compelling piece that they brought in from a transfer uh at Wisconsin gonna be more of of a piece for you on Scout team probably here in 2024 but even with Zarah Fischer out of the equation and two NFL rookies now out of the out of the way feels like they've got the goods not just to rely on those top two but to really be able to to work their way down the depth chart to keep keep this fresh and then you're you're attacking offensive tackles with a full game of work underneath their legs in the late stages of the fourth quarter with guys who've maybe played 25 30 reps to that point yeah I think the one thing that's clear even at this point in the year is that those guys the number three four five you know whatever combination of lions vilbert vanover that is you know maybe some of the retri Freshman or freshman get the chance to jump up is that those guys are going to play dim Barnes said that he wants to rotate them um you know we've seen that the past couple of years um you know even when John Scott was the defensive line coach that you want to get fresh bodies in there on the edge um you know really all over the the defensive line to get after those offensive linemen especially in the later stag of the stages of the game keep your guys fresh and so I think between lions vanover and vilbert you have a really kind of compelling Trio there you've got guys who are at you know very different stages of their career with different different experiences um you can all do kind of a little bit different things I think that Lions is kind of that stereotypical long um Edge rusher kind of the the guy that when you look at the NFL that you're kind of like that's the Prototype um explosion explosion from him yeah exactly you know vanover is someone who played on the interior a little bit more um earlier in his career and I think that he's listed in the 260s for his weight and so he's a little bit more stouter but we've seen some good things from him and then you know vilbert is a little bit of a wild card this year um you in terms of what we're going to see him do how much we're going to see him I think it's interesting that he's cross trained at both the defensive tackle spot and the defensive end spot you know six foot six just you know former basketball player such a long guy um I think I'm really curious to see what that looks like at defensive tackle maybe we'll see from him what we thought we might have seen from Devon Townley uh when he made that move uh to defend of tackle when he came back from the portal but never really materialized um but Deon Barnes when I talked to him last month was really excited about vilbert you know he said that he wasn't going to put a number on what vilbert was going to do but he said that when I think he said when 92 is on the field you're going to notice him um so we'll see you know he hasn't played consistent football since 2021 um last time we really saw him was in that Outback Bowl um and you know you can people can discuss those sacks however they want but he was around the quarterback um so we we'll see what what this looks like but I think even without Zariah Fischer I think that you know those those next three guys um are it's it's an exciting interesting group and I think that Lions is someone who going into next year um could be because theoretically this group could lose a lot uh to the draft and eligibility stuff I think Lions has been a really nice position to going into next year being a guy um on at defensive end yeah Lions is on a trajectory right now where it wouldn't surpris if if you see this team regroup for Spring ball 2025 and he's one of those faces of the defense kind of figures if it goes according to playing for him he's got a lot to do on the field between now and then but that's kind of the feedback I'm glad you mentioned the red shirt freshman because I skipped right over them and brought up Jaylen Harvey who's the only true freshman defensive end on this roster right now you had Joseph M Mason Rob and making their move to campus last year they took a red shirt neither of them saw game action and quite frankly with the way things are set up right now at defensive event G to be an uphill climb for them to really get involved as contributors come Saturdays in year two uh year six guy in Smith vilbert you've got a couple year six guys in the defensive tackle room a couple guys opting in with that covid eligibility and Hakeem Beeman and Devon you know him as Devon Alise I'm going to introduce him that way but as Daniel referenced earlier and kind of saying a commentary from about Deni Dennis Sutton that he got from Devon his name is now Devon J Thomas that was announced to us I think last week uh so it's officially changed on the roster so if you hear Devon J Thomas on this show moving forward we're talking about the man you previously known as Devon aliz who is a six-year senior at the defensive tackle spot and he's a guy that I think when we talk about six year players often you think you have them figured out but what we saw from from Jay Thomas during this second half of the 2023 season was clearly the best football of his career I thought he was outstanding in the Peach Bowl when when you know we we're kind of looking for bright spots I thought he was one and I thought maybe that was going to be his Farewell moment instead he announces he's sticking around he's going to be a really important guy could be a team captain for this team but when when looking at his Ascension next to Zayn Durant last year it kind of came at the expense of H Beeman who finished the year as a backup after serving as a starter for for much of the early port of this season or at least rotating with Devon in that role and so you got two guys coming from different 2023 experiences I think Devon Jay Thomas is riding a bit of a high right now trying to maintain that momentum help his own professional stock really be a tone Setter for this team inside along with Zay Durant then you've got AEM Bean who I know is on the record as saying he was not pleased with how his fifth year on campus went and it feels like he's somebody forever has been on The Fringe of being a breakout player Penn State doesn't necessarily need that from him this year but getting the best version of AEM Beaman and fortifying what you've got in the defensive tackle depth chart which only lost a couple guys Jordan Jordan uh vandenbberg transferred out to Jordan Tech Devon Townley transferred out after initially entering the portal last off season other than that you've got your gang back together you've got Al Alonzo Ford back from injury a guy who added from Old Dominion last year and you've got a four-man freshman class to work through and you might have some Smith vilbert involved so what I'm saying here again is they're in a really good spot from a depth perspective I know it threw a lot of names your way there but I think that that that's kind of the story here on defensive tackle you can take a lot of time working your way through the group yeah I I think that the the one place I'm going to start at defensive tackle is is with Zane Durant who I think in that class of 2022 has over these past three years has maybe been one of the more consistent contributors going back to what he did as a freshman um and now I think he's but he's been a little bit more under the radar I think that part of that is the position you don't get a lot of big sack numbers coming from the interior those sorts of things but you know I think that the way that he's developed physically uh since he got here I think he was at 255 or 265 on signing day he's up to 2 near 290 now you see him at camp and he is just a very very just built defensive tackle and I think that we've seen that he hasn't sacrificed any explosiveness over these past couple of years when when he's been on the field and so I think I think that Zayn Durant is someone who is you know very well positioned to have a you know a really solid year um I like what I've seen with him and then you pair him with Devon J Thomas who came on so strong at the end of last year you know I asked Deion Barnes if that second half was the best football of his career and um you know Deon Barnes agreed and Barnes said that the next thing for Devon is and he had said he had just had a conversation with him that morning to remind him is that you have to do everything that you did at the end of last year to make that to continue to be that successful and that's not easy but that's what you need to do I think that you know Devon kind of knows now how to get to that point and so I'm really excited to see if he can really spin that forward um but there is so much experience in this group you think about how much hem Beeman has played how much kaziah isard has played dating back to his red shirt freshman season in 2021 um I mean that's someone who has done a lot of different things for the group um and then after that I'm really curious how it shakes out because we know that Deon Barnes wants to rotate and we've seen them go pretty much five deep at defensive end um these past couple of years and we've seen them tried to go five or six deep at defensive tackle and so who is going to be um you know the guy that that really steps up there you know can Alonzo Ford um will we finally see him on the field and will he be able to rotate you know Caleb Aris and Ty Landing are two guys who've been in the program for a little bit um and you know are physically developing and then you know there's four freshman I mean I'm excited to see them on the field in um this in August I mean you know some of them were sidelined with injury stuff in the spring and you know we our glimpses were were pretty short but I think that if maybe one of those guys can be you know in the rotation maybe all of them get up to that four game threshold um so you see what you have um I think that there's some really exciting pieces there to work with especially when you kind of project everything forward and you have two sixer guys in this group um you know who what other which other guys are going to move on we'll have to wait and see um in terms of Eligibility and things like that but it's a very intriguing group from top to bottom with bunch of veterans bunch of young guys a lot of guys in the middle and it seems like it can be a really successful group four guys with starting experience in Durant and Devon Thomas AE bean and kazai isard just remember isard stepped up few years back as a younger player when PJ muster was sidelined for much of that season in 2021 um so he he's seen a lot of football as well he's a name that you may forget just because there are a lot to get to here and as you said Tai banding up to about 285 pounds now in his second year and then Caleb artist one of the bigger presences in that defensive tackle room for the last couple years now a red shirt sophomore at about 323 pounds and you mentioned Alonzo for he's been sideline since last last preseason camp after making his transfer from Old Dominion a lot of roughs to knock off but what we heard coming out of spring camp was that there was a lot of uh optimism that he would be able to get back into the swing of things with practice come preseason ball so we'll see what he he can do I think you kind of slot Alonzo forward with those Four Freshman and saying we'll see we'll be keeping tabs because couple of those freshmen couldn't really go this spring we didn't get long at him you know a guy like Liam Andrew is very highly rated what does he look like on the field with power four competition the one guy I'll note that we've consistently gotten really strong feedback on his conditioning on his strength and just on the work he's put together since arriving on campus is January and rolly Xavier Gilliam he's the one guy that just consistently hear about putting it together well for himself physically uh and mentally early on going to the second level of this defense the linebacker conversation adjusts a bit here in 2024 we'll get to exactly why with that new line position in just a moment but it sure does seem like we're fixated on on a a pair above all the rest at linebacker with Kobe King a full year as a starting mic linebacker under his belt and then Tony Roos who burned red shirt last year when he got run it was usually pretty impressive that extended all the way through the Peach Bowl in Atlanta and the buzz has been in place for him since last winter carried over through now and right now it just feels like if there's one guy on this roster especially on the defensive side of the ball who's just primed to launch and by the time we get through let's say the first three four games of this year is gonna be a household name for Nitty Lions fan I'm putting my money on Tony Roos and I think that's where the conversation starts because we're going to see a lot of two linebacker looks and I think when games are hanging in the balance and when things are early on in this season as they try to get other guys comfortable we're going to see extended use of both King and roas in tandem yeah I I think that's kind of where you have to start um at linebacker with those two I I think that we saw Kobe King last year really establish himself as that mic in the middle um you know that voice in the middle of the defense and I thought that he had a a very solid year and I'm you know he's gonna be a red chirt Junior this year and year four I think that he has the chance to take a leap I'm curious to see what's a little bit different for him and pretty much for everyone in the Tom Allen defense um it's a little bit of a change of pace um but yeah I think that the arrow is really pointing up um for Tony Roos I think that when we've heard the feedback about the linebackers um it really is kind of Tony Roos as the headliner that's the one who who keeps coming up um we we've seen him really transform his body uh I think he's up close to 240 pounds now in the latest roster update and you know I think that coming in we really saw him as I think kind of a Sam based on his background and ability to play in space was a high school running back at Fairfax in Northern Virginia um but I think that he's really put himself in a position to play in the box and to really mix it up physically by all accounts he hasn't sacrificed any of that that speed and athleticism that made him such a highly sought-after Prospect in the class of of 2023 um but I think that he's in a position to be in the Box to really mix it up next to Kobe k and I think he could have a really really nice year Dominic Duca not going anywhere likely to be a special teams captain for the second consecutive year played a lot of defensive football the last couple years with Manny Diaz um a lot of it did come in that Sam role which is where we saw Curtis Jacobs start and which is kind of where we're going to see the line position I think take over for a lot of these matchups but let's remember you're going to have games where you know the offense is going to be making a concered effort to establish itself on the ground it's going to try to win by going after you down the middle and so this isn't a Penn State Defense that's just going to be here's the 11 that we put out as our starting lineup every week and we're going to play these guys 75% of the game there's always going to be different wrinkles to this we knew that with Manny Diaz especially as we got used to how many guys were involved on a week- toe basis and I think with Tom Allen something that's key to remember here is some games you'll see a lot of two linebackers other games you'll see more of a traditional three linebacker look and so guys like Dominic Duca Ty Ellen has starting experience at Mike linebacker but I think a lot of the focus for me at linebacker because Keon Wy is now out of the equation at least for the time being he's another guy that during spring ball coming off a strong offseason trying to build off of that suffered a setback suffered an injury and as we confirmed back in May out for for a significant portion of time so we'll see if he's available for this team coming out of fall camp and what that might mean but with ke with Keon Wy sideline a lot of focus goes on the other two 2023 sigs Daniel yes you had Tony roas burn red red shirt from that group but you also had Tamir Robinson and Kavon Keys really turning heads on the scout team last year Keys was actually that uh picked as the developmental squad player of the year on both defense and on special teams then you had Robinson becoming a little bit of a buzzier name during spring ball with some of the stuff he was doing and some of the coaching staff feedback on Robinson was really glowing as we worked our way through through April so these guys are on the rise I know we're used to names like elen and Duca at this point but it's going to be fun to see what exactly happens when we get to the you know third possession of this West Virginia game or we get into some different looks where is Tom Allen turn turning towards and how much are Kavon keys and Tamir Robinson a part of that plan all three of these linebackers from the 23 class have all kind of had their turn as being the the really Buzzy name I mean for Tony Roos it really hasn't stopped but he was the one from day one and then at the end of last year it's Kon Keys you know getting those dquad recognition and Curtis Jacobs had some really really good things to say about him uh and then the spring was Tamir Robinson's turn um I think that Robinson is a really interesting Prospect given uh just his physical makeup just how long he is and he's put on some weight too and I think he can be a pretty imposing presence um back there in the middle of that defense and so you know I think that keys and Robinson um I'm I want to see them on the field more I'm really curious to see what they look like um but I think that you talk about the depth that Penn State has built up at linebacker I think that you look at those secondy Year guys as you know who can potentially break through you know they're going to push Tyler Ellen and Dominic Duca know more competition in the room uh is always good and we'll see what this actually looks like you know what kind of rotations there are what kind of different packages there are how Tom Allen approaches getting different guys on the field in different situations which is something we saw Manny Diaz you know do a pretty good job of the past two years and so I think that Robinson and keys are definitely in position to make some sort of leap uh in year two and with Kobe King as a red shirt Jr a guy who I think played far better football than people even realized last year was really in uh s such a key piece of why this defense was so strong and consistent throughout the regular season um he's going to take another step forward this year he's a retro junr and regardless of of what awaits in 2025 I think it's going to be very beneficial to have Tam Robinson kind of waiting in the wings attached to the hip I would hope with Kobe King and learning the ins and outs of what life is like as a Mike linebacker here at Penn State not just what's expected of you on Saturday for those three hours of football game action but what is required from when you get back into facilities on Sunday morning all the way through gra game prep going into the next Saturday morning because I think Kobe King has really been lauded for what he has done in that regard and so if Tam Robinson is going to take that next step and become maybe the next Mike linebacker for this team down the road I think it's a really good thing to be able to follow in that path for at least another year with Kobe King right by his side two-man linebacker class from a freshman standpoint Curry Jackson came to campus in January he was able to get a bunch of practices in that's great because when he was a high school senior he missed most of his his year with an injury he's a guy who has some history on the defensive line earlier in his career he's not afraid to get rough physical he's going to be a box pres same goes for Anthony speca who's probably come about as as far as anyone that we've seen compared to where they were last summer as prospects before their High School senior year guy that's really filled out physically I know strength coach Chuck Losi has been really impressed by what they got from Anthony specka when he got to campus in May and his preparedness to compete at this level we'll see if that can carry through through his first Power four practice sessions so from linebacker to kind of Bridging the Gap toward the secondary now we go to the line position and you know this is in a lot of ways going to be familiar to what we knew from Penn State implementing its nickel position a lot of five defensive back looks over the years we saw it under Manny Diaz we saw it before him dequon Hardy was routinely that third cornerback in the mix but the lion spot has been routinely described there's a lot of safety traits involved there you want to be able to cover in space but also bring that physicality and some size to the role and thus far what we've heard consistently whether it's Tom Allen an Point extra on the staff teammates people involved in this competition that Jaylen Reed has separated himself at this particular spot we'll talk about what that means for safety because he was a starting safety in 2023 but now by extension going on to play the line roll something we saw him do in the blue white game gonna see a lot of that this Autumn and there are some interesting names here Daniel because Terry Smith gave us a nugget in June when discussing this that on third Downs when it's super obvious that they're looking at passing situations and they got to prepare for that he's pretty confident this role is going to come from his room at cornerback and and the name that really surfaces there most routinely is Cam Miller though you've also got Zion Tracy in the mix there and a couple other guys here that are have not played a bunch defensively for Penn State over the years but are in the thick of this thing Tyreese Mills who's been a bit of a tweener between safety and linebacker since coming to campus from lacana college he dealt with an injury in his first year and then Colin dkin is really the rising name in this conversation based on feedback from Terry Smith he's technically transitioned from cornerback to safety on the roster working toward the 2024 season but lion is the spot you want to see him according to Smith he is legitimately pushing for this number two job he's the younger brother of Khalil denkin who's a tight end for the squad but as a red shirt sophomore someone who joined the team as a walk on Colin dinkin is the name I think that that we all need to be TR in here Beyond Jaylen Reed because I thought he did some really good things in the blue white game and when you've got one of the most esteemed coaches on this staff telling you he's going to be a playable guy and we're this close to the season you're gonna pay attention so it starts with with Jaylen Reed but you work your way and you kind of go cornerback safety little bit of linebacker flare in there as well and you add it up to to just kind of wonder what what buttons does Tom all want to press and is he going to press them at the right time because he's got the resources of likes that he has never had in this position calling a defense yeah this this is one of the spots where I think you're really going to see the kind of the full depth of this safety room of this cornerback room on display and all the talent that's been stockpiled there um I think that you can really this is where the mixing and matching comes in and you know the ability to to use different guys in different spots you know I do think that Jaylen Reed is is really suited to that spot um you know we've heard really good things about him from the mental side um as the type of processor that he is and so I think having him up closer to the line of scrimmage on early Downs should help put him in a position to succeed and you know maybe help this defense uh succeed um I am interested to see what it looks like in terms of uh you know third down when that is kind of that more traditional cornerback nickel you know dayon Hardy it feels like he was doing it for forever um and you know we saw a little bit of Johnny Dixon in there but you know for the most part it was Hardy and so you know who can step up there um I do like what cam Miller brings to the table um we heard a little bit about AJ Harris the Georgia transfer in there um in addition to Zion Tracy um but to go back to one last point with with Colin dinkin um I I thought he had a really nice blue white game and even going through last year you know he's someone who stood out on special teams um he was on some of the coverage units and just looking at the cornerback group as it went through um you know drills in practice and games he just really stood out physically He's listed at 6'2 around 200 pounds um you know Joey Porter Jr was maybe the the last big body that Penn State had in that cornerback group you know last year wasn't necessarily um as big and so he was someone that kind of your eye got drawn to a little bit um and he made a couple plays on on special teams I think he also got D for a couple penalties here and there um but I am really intrigued by him after the blue white game with the switch to safety how can he be used how can he get on the field and and what can he bring That's Unique let's go over to safety because it just feels like the very much tethered between these two positions in the way we're talking about Jaylen Reed and part of the confidence in being able to say well Jaylen Reed is going to go to this new role despite flourishing in a different kind of setting last year is the fact that this safety spot has three studs in the opinion of this coaching staff and they got zi Wheatley and KJ Winston to hold things down back deep while Jaylen Reed navigates the new role at lion and I think the key to all this is Zaki wheatley's year for putting it together I I think the phrase that we got from James Franklin was the lights came on we've heard that at different points about different guys when he puts that out there you pay attention and it was through winterball that we were hearing really good things about Zaki wheat Le and then he put together a complete performance during spring practices and right now you feel really good about saying he's going to be one of the most active members of this Penn State Defense despite times last year where his usage was slipping where he was clearly a backup and at times wasn't as much of a factor as maybe we anticipated in his third year on campus so for Zaki wheelie who started his career at cornerback had kind of this mythological stretch where he was the takeaway King in spring camp and and preseason camp it feels like playing alongside KJ Winston who some are projecting as a first round pick and sharing the field with Jaylen Reid who has as much experienc as any defensive player on this roster he is really an ex factor for what they're going to be able to do and how they might be able to stretch their talent across an 11 man look definitely it sounds like the messaging to zachi Wheatley is that they're going to need him this year and that they're going to need him to play at a high level um I think the idea of having Jaylen Reed up close to the line of scrimmage and then KJ Winston and Zachy Wheatley you know kind of patrolling the deeper areas of the field I mean it's hard to think of a better situation almost that with those three guys you know if they're all operating um at at their highest level um but you know that can be a pretty big if sometimes um so yeah I'm excited to see what this looks like um you know I think that you've recruited well there even with King Mack leaving I think there's still some depth and and still some Talent um but wheatle is going to be a big part of it I mean if he can kind of you know man that deep part of the field be that Ball Hawk be around the ball you know at all times I think that can do a lot for the nitty lions and everyone that's in front of that safety group Winston is someone who we've talked about having All-American potential since he really got the campus there's always been a buzz around this guy he's understated himself but people do the talking for KJ Winston and it really seems like now year three maybe ready to fulfill a lot of that after a really strong sophomore campaign and you look beyond that leading Trio and by the way good chance that if things go well for them on the field all three of these guys are in NFL uniforms a come 2025 we don't know that yet but you got a brace for it if you're Penn State and so you look Beyond what's happening there and you factor in that you lost the top two top 100 overall recruit and King ma after his freshman season because of his transfer to Alabama after Spring ball so that fourth safety spot gets a lot more interesting you can probably say the fifth one does too Lamont Payne made the move from cornerback to safety we've seen that work out for a bunch of guys in the past Zaki Wheatley ke is something that we've we've seen with consistency and now Payne getting early feedback that's been really positive for what he's done at safety how his body type matches that better than what he was going to bring to the quarterback he's a long defensive back and then Dean Lane recently got to campus he followed up vabo tore who was on campus in January put together a pretty strong spring practice period I thought he held up well playing with the Varsity squad the team white during the spring game and then we've also got to include uh toari Nelson who is still a little tricky to kind of figure out exactly how he fits at 6 foot3 220 pounds someone we've been pretty enamored with since he came to town as a 2 top 247 Talent knowing full well that that that body type is just unique in all sorts of ways he's stuck at safety can he make that move can he be an ascending figure in that room right now I think it's too early to tell something that we'll probably check back in you know after the first couple weeks of August and and we're generating some some traction toward that opener against West Virginia but much like running back three competition as we discussed on offense not only are you trying to find the right depth pieces for this year but you may be trying to find your next starters and your next stalwarts for 2025 yeah I I think you look at this group of young guys and I think penate has done a nice job of you know mixing and matching different skill sets um you know Lamont Payne had really good reviews when when he came in and then between the group of darari Nelson Babu Tor and dejon Lane I mean you've got some really physically imposing guys there um you know Nelson at 63 Lane at 6'2 Tor at 61 you know 212 pounds I think was Alan zidas called him the hacksaw uh for you know the the type of hits that he can put on guys um you I think that Penn State has really you know given Anthony Poindexter or Anthony Poindexter has gone out and God um you know a lot of different body types and a lot of different guys who can do different things on the back end um and you know knowing that Penn State is willing to move their defensive backs between safety and cornerback cornerback in safety to you know figure out where the best fit is I think that helps a lot too um in the defensive back field but you know I think that as we look forward to 2025 I think we've talked about a couple different positions this year you know running back defensive end and now safety where there's there can be a lot there's the potential for a lot of turnover things can look a lot different and so you know for these young guys who we might not see much on Saturdays it's still a really important really Val valuable year for them and I think special teams is where you're going to see these names also surface like we did last year guys that didn't really make an impact on defense like Zion Tracy and Elliot Washington kind of quietly burned their red shirt because of the work they did on special teams and coverage roles and let's finish out here with cornerback and and you'd think oh boy this this is going to be a problem this year you lost your top three contributors and I know it turned out differently in the NFL draft for some of these guys than we thought but kayin King Johnny Dixon and daqu Hardy were each All Conference picks in 2023 and they all had different skill sets perimeter inside they had it covered for the last couple years really that Trio and now they've all moved on and yet here we are not really worrying about this spot because Terry Smith certainly isn't worried about it he has said multiple times this year coming out of spring camp now approaching summer ball that he believes this def this cornerback unit could be the deepest he's had and this is year 11 for him in Happy Valley he's been with James Franklin every step of the way as an original member of the staff and he's dealt with turnover in the past I think he's really glad to have Cam Miller who we just talked a lot about maybe stepping up in that line role especially on third down scenarios but cam Miller has played a bunch as a backup piece the last couple years not a ton of use in the slot I think you could see more of that from him more outside died by far during his first couple years on campus but he's a former top 247 player has really filled out for himself physically I think he's around 185 now and and right now what you continue to hear about him is just a different kind of leader than they've had in this cornerback room no disrespect to the people that have been there in recent years and had success there but he's just a different kind of leadership presence and the way he kind of sets the tone for everybody so to have that Daniel when you're going through all the other different turnover where you've got AJ Harris coming from Georgia after his first season with the Bulldogs former five-star Prospect Jaylen Kimber coming off after starting last year with the Florida Gators he also previously was with the Georgia Bulldogs he's a former top 100 Prospect and then oh by the way you move Lamont Wade over to safety and you bring in a couple of fresh three freshman I should say so when there's a lot of things moving I think Kim Miller has been a a a kind of consistency that that they needed in this room and then around him I think there's just a a lot of fun pieces whether it's you know instant impact transfer players or seconde guys making their run or a transfer player from last year now Daven Collins who has been pushing and pushing and pushing and so a little bit like defensive end where you've got all these different guys from different kind of Journeys to get to this point and yet they're sharing this room and it's all lending you the confidence that Penn State's gonna be okay at quarterback yeah I think that's the the big conclusion you can take away from this is that the talent is there it's just kind of a question of how it shakes out um and and you look at all the players in this in this group and they all kind of occupy different I know like if superlative is the right word for it where you know cam Miller is the returner who's gotten the leadership um you know praise alavian Collins was maybe the the breakout performer of the spring AJ Harris is the very highly regarded transfer Jaylen Kimber is the super experienced transfer and then you've got Elliot Washington and Tracy two guys that you know got their feet wet last year you know got some valuable experience especially in the Peach Bowl and they're you know in a position to potentially you know move up make a run at things um you know I think that this is a group where coming out of the blue white game you maybe have kind of the the least feel for how the dep chart might look because AJ Harris and Jaylen Kimber um were on that blue team uh whereas you know the most of the returners were on the the white team um getting extensive r and so you know I I think that you know we've seen when kin King was a freshman you know we saw him get the chance to rotate in um at different points we saw Johnny Dixon get the chance to rotate in at different points um in in 2022 on the outside and so I think that Terry Smith has shown that he's going to put guys on the field um you know if they deserve it um and they're going to have a lot of they have the chance to have a lot of deserving guys this year um so you know I'm really curious to see how it shakes out I think that going through doing this depth chart exercise this was maybe the hardest one for me to pick you know like the two starters or the the three starters um but I think that you can really put your trust in Terry Smith and um you know put and trust him to put different combinations out there that can get the job done it is tough I think it's hard not to just say or when you look at these starting jobs Daven Collins or AJ Harris or cam Miller or Jaylen Kimber and you don't want to sleep on Zion Tracy or ellot Washington who who both were able to get some work in their first years and have tried to build off that in year two and have special Prospect pedigrees of their own and then you bring in three freshmen two of which were here in January Antoine belgrave shorter and John Mitchell Kenny wosley comes to town in June from Philadelphia he's a guy that they really think could do good things for them in slot coverage down the road and and we've seen freshman show up at this position and get run special teams at cornerback maybe later in game so don't sleep on those newcomers at all but it feels like Terry Smith legitimately will be considering six guys to potentially start for Penn State um I have a hard time shaking off what we witnessed from AJ Harris playing for an overmatched team blue during the blue white game it really lined up with so much of what we heard of his performance during spring practices but I'm also really clinging to what Terry Smith told us about Jaylen Kimber there been some criticism of of how Kimber performed last year there was a lot of CR criticism about how the Florida Gator defense performed at large so it's hard to separate those two factors one thing that Terry Smith told us about Jaylen Kimber uh during a meeting with the media in June is that they think they'll be better set up to motivate him and they also believe that Jaylen Kimber is tougher than they expected he's a guy that that that is really further along with how they want to run their practices with how they want their cornerback culture I think he meshed with that more than they thought he might off the bat and so that's given him a nice jump toward pushing for a starting roll too so a lot to work with for Terry Smith we didn't promise we'd give you a a complete depth chart and tell you who all the stars would be but really when it comes to it Daniel I think the prevailing theme on defense and it's not all that different than the conversations we had leading up to the 2023 season and when Manny Diaz was defensive coordinator is it doesn't necessarily matter who is starting a lot of the time it matters who are the 20 to 25 players that are playing consistently I don't know if that number comes down a bit with Tom Allen but I do think that it's best not to be bogged down by who's actually out there for the initial reps in Morgantown on August 31st because you are going to see this staff wheeling and dealing with the pieces they have and I think really some specialized weapons that they'll be able to carve out between now in the end of preseason camp definitely I I think that this defense is just very very well stocked um you look at how they've recruited the past couple of years the types of prospects they've been in and then the development that's happened once guys have gotten here um I think that you know you can look back at guys who were on the roster in 2021 uh who you know grew into bigger contributors by 2023 I mean Johnny Dixon stands out as a you know a prime example of the development that can happen at Penn State and so you know I'm excited to see what this looks like I think that the snap counts at the end of games might be a little bit more telling um than starting lineups and then also who's on the field in the fourth quarter in crunch time what that looks like um but I think that Penn State is well positioned to have the right guys for the right spots uh this fall on the defensive side of the ball and they're well positioned to not have to rely upon the same 11 in a third and 15 scenario as they are in a first and goal scenario they've got the goods to be able to to mix and match and really figure out what they want to set on the field depending on on what circumstances are dictating good stuff as always Daniel we're a month out from seeing this team on the field preseason camp work um if you missed our conversation last Thursday go check it out we spent about 45 minutes breaking down the offensive depth chart the storylines and competitions from position to position Daniel good stuff as always enjoyed it we'll talk to you real soon appreciate it Tyler that's going to do it for this episode of the Lions 247 podcast before Daniel we broke down the latest in NY allons recruiting with Tyler calvaruso we will come back to you with a fresh episode at the start of next week that's going to do it for this week though we hope you all enjoy your holiday we're going to do our best to do that here for now stepping aside I am Tyler Donahue this has been the Lions 247 podcast