Morning Joe [9AM] 9/13/2024 | 🅼🆂🅽🅱️🅲 BREAKING NEWS Today September 13, 2024

and there you go welcome to the fourth hour of Morning Joe it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast 9:00 a.m. in the East following their contentious debate vice president kamla Harris and former president Donald Trump are back on the campaign Trail in Battleground states with less than eight weeks until election day Harris will be in Pennsylvania today while Trump spends the day in California NBC News senior Capitol Hill correspondent Garrett hake has the latest I ask you today North Carolina are you ready to make your voices heard overnight kamla Harris slamming Donald Trump in the Tar Hill State for his debate performance it was the same old show same old tired play book we've heard for years with no plan for how he would address the needs of the American people well folks look it's time to turn the page the vice president holding two post-debate rallies in North Carolina a key Battleground state that she hopes to turn blue for the first time since 2008 Harris welcoming a rematch I believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate Donald Trump campaigning in Arizona Thursday defending his debate performance while attacking the administration over immigration people said that I was angry at the debate angry I was angry and yes I am angry and vowing not to return to the stage with the vice president despite previously agreeing to three debates this fall because we've done two debates and because they were successful there will be no third debate Mr Trump also mocking the moderators and complaining of unfair treatment those two people should be fired the former president again pushing a false conspiracy theory that Haitian migrants in the town of Springfield Ohio are stealing pets for food they take in the geese you know where the geese are in the park in the lake and even walking off with their pets my dog's been taken my dogs were so on Thursday Springfield was forced to close its town hall and elementary school after receiving a bomb threat the city's mayor telling the Springfield News son that the threat included complaints about the Haitian migrants in the city literally a bomb threat this is how dangerous his rhetoric is as ridiculous as it may be it's also dangerous and unfounded NBC's Garrett H with that report joining us now we have special correspondent at Vanity Fair and the host of The Fast politics podcast Molly Jong fast and the host of the podcast on brand with Donnie Deutsch Donnie deuts is with us and National reporter for the New York Times Jeremy Peters joins us as well it's good to have you all so Molly what are you feeling and seeing and hearing and reading in the days after the debate Donald Trump says says he won and again I ask did he just blurt that out because he was so traumatized by the poor showing that he fared in the debate or was that planned by his campaign because I would think anybody with any type of strategic thinking in in their brain would wait a week or two before announcing there wouldn't be a third debate it just looks well like exactly what it is he lost so bad he just doesn't want to go back for more yeah and and I mean Harris is a really good at this right she's a career prosecutor so she knows how to prosecute the case what I was impressed by and what the question was was could she make the case for herself too and she was able to very deafly both make the case against him and the case for herself and you saw she was able to inject these tiny little policy Snippets remember you don't have ton of time there and she was able to talk about you know the sort of Economic Policy she wanted to do with home owning home ownership she was able to do a lot of these very deftly um you know worded statements the thing I thought was interesting was she really got him off balance with the handshake and from the handshake she was able to sort of keep going and then she would bait him and and leave him the time to sort of get involved in one of his psycho dramas like the thing about his inheritance or about crowd size and get distracted from making the case against her it was really really strategic and really really carefully done and I thought that it was the kind of sort of threedimensional chest that I'm not sure he's capable of you know Donnie the contrast was I mean I think of three moments I mean I could think of more actually because there were really striking moments on both sides but the all of these moments really set the contrast for Americans in terms of what they want in a leader and I think about kamla Harris inviting people to go to a trump rally telling telling the viewers that you you're going to hear a lot of lies but what you're what you're not going to hear is anything about you not one idea not one plan of what he's going to do for you and then she talked about her career um in service and how she always considers herself kamla Harris for the people and when she was representing someone she didn't care whether they were a democrat or a republican she didn't ask are you that she asked are you okay and then finally if you needed more the comment about the eating of pets yeah uh the eating of pets will will live on you know I want to go back to his post-debate spin that he won the debate I wonder I wish we need a morning Joe medical correspondent on today to really get inside the brain does it I wonder if it works this way with him does he obviously does he know he lost and then he says okay I'm going to lie and and spin it the other way or does he immediately go to because he can't stand ever losing anything does he kind of just does his brain transfix and he actually believes it I I'm really CU I don't know which one is worse but I'm really curious to be inside of his head the other thing to learn interesting had uh the our friends Katy k and and Anthony Sky mooch my podcast the other day after the debate and the mooch brought up a really interesting point and this may be one of the reasons he doesn't want to debate again he didn't land in Philadelphia on this plane until 657 2 hours before the debate imagine that you're debating and the prep that goes into it yet you're just touching down a couple of hours before that shows you the lack of preparation the lack of seriousness I mean who would ever do that just shows you how he's doing things on the Fly and I think he's he's obviously afraid de again he knows he will never put in the prep work he knows he lost he knows he doesn't want to be humiliated again and I think this is going to work against him I really really do if I'm K Harris I just keep beating this to a drum he will not debate again he's afraid he's running and then there's Jeremy Peters who's coming after us w w in your new piece Jeremy entitled pundit said Harris won the debate undecided voters weren't so sure and you write in part this in interviews with undecided voters many of whom the times has interviewed regularly over the last several months they acknowledged that Miss Harris seemed more presidential than Mr Trump and they said she laid out a sweeping Vision to fix some of the country's most stubborn problems but they also said she did not seem much different from Mr Biden and they wanted change and most of all what they wanted to hear and didn't was the fine print voters said they were glad she has a tax and economic plan but they want to know how it will become law when Washington is so polarized they know she wants to give assistance to firsttime home buyers but doubted that it was realistic and Jeremy I ask you is there answer Donald Trump because I guess I guess I I I see the questions I think there was only so much that she could do in that debate in order to be as effective as she was and and I agree but a lot more questions of course I would love to ask kamla Harris about her leadership style and her plans and how she plans to execute but are those undecided voters saying I'm going to stick with I'm G to kind of lean Trump here because I want change I don't get it no I don't think that a lot of them are saying they're leaning Trump some of them certainly would but I think the risk the bigger risk for her is that they're just going to stay home that they're not motivated inspired Enough by her because remember people don't really know her you know as as we've quoted many voters saying and and and many Democratic strategists uh saying she's famous as vice president of course she has very high name recognition but she's largely unknown as a candidate in a politician I mean she was elected to the United States Senate in 2018 she's hardly you know been on on the national stage for a long time and she has had let's not forget a really truncated campaign period to introduce herself to voters that's what the next 8 weeks are all about and something Ma you point out is is very correct you can't do in two-minute answers in a debate so there's not going to be another debate it looks like um in a way I think that's almost good for her campaign because they can continue to introduce her to the voters who still need convincing on their own terms in these large rallies in these controlled settings I think she's going to eventually have to do some more interviews you know she's only done the one so far um and you know but there's eight weeks and that's an awful lot of time uh to convince people there's a sliver of people really that need convincing need motivating and that's not uh that's not undo Unthinkable um or undoable for her but this is still a very close race and and despite the fact that Trump clearly lost lost the room uh on Tuesday night she still whether the question of whether or not she won in the minds of the people who are not really yet decided is is is an open one so what's actually uh interesting here is that with So Little Time Donnie your expertise is really um it's actually relevant to this conversation because it's going to be about branding really fast and furious and it's going to be about honest branding and I mean if I were the Harris campaign and I'm going to ask you if you agree with this or if you have a better idea I would be focused on the contrast hate retribution anti-democratic values racism and all the facts to back that up literally you could have a subparagraph under each of those that went on for Pages because he served as president and he tried to do a lot of things that were incredibly destructive and he was successful in many ways January 6th and he wants to Pardon them and then the contrast is okay you don't know me that well lawyer prosecutor Attorney General State of California Senator vice president these are the jobs kamla Harris held so doesn't that right there show a contrast that Brands them very differently yeah I I could couldn't agree with you more I I don't have anything much wiser to say other than I put a banner on top of that it's all about contrast but start the contrast with yesterday and tomorrow hope versus despair sadness versus Joy um old news versus new news that's be the main contrast all those other talking points not talking points facts that you put in there go underneath it but it still starts with the candidate that owns change the candidate that owns hope wins I think it's very very hard for him to sell anything about change or anything about Hope because of who he is and what stands for she on the other hand and what he should have done at the debate Trump is really attach her to Biden because then she can't own hope and change he didn't do that until his closing statement so your point about contrast contrast contrast absolutely but start it with hope versus despair start it with tomorrow versus yesterday Molly your latest opinion piece for msnbc.com is entitled Trump's routine sexism came back to bite him during the debate tell us about it yeah it was really interesting he tried to use her phrase so remember during the Mike Pence debate she said I'm speaking when Pence uh interrupted her which was sort of became a kind of Catchphrase a little bit iconic pretty big thing to come out of a vice presidential debate so Trump tried to do it to her but the problem for Trump was that uh women relate to and again I'm sorry guys but women relate to being interrupted and uh men don't necessarily do that so when he said that powerful guy who's been you know quite famous for many many years it didn't have the same resonance and he did that a bunch of times where he tried to flip the flip the script on her but in fact it helped her and she was able to flip the script on him I don't know how she did it live television as we all know here is very hard and to be able to provide she was able to do a little bit of real-time factchecking too which I thought was really amazing she had to do so many things it was really like a Ginger Rogers back uh dancing you know backwards and heels kind of thing well there was one course yeah go ahead I was just going to say m something that I don't think has gotten enough attention was the line that she used about Trump being confused remember she when he attacked her for not being black right she she said you know he this he's the same old guy something to that effect using the word old right she's totally flipped the script on this you know uh Trump's being able to paint his opponent as decrepit and you know mentally not all there she said on Tuesday night that he's maybe confused about the facts of the last election and that is starting to become more of the conversation nationally about what the differences are between these two people because when you see them on stage together there's no doubt who is the quicker on her feet and has you know more command of of policy and the issues at the top of her head yeah for sure National reporter for the New York Times jarem Peters thank you very much for coming on this morning so overnight more than 30,000 Boeing factory workers walked off the job after rejecting a Union contract it's the company's First Strike since 2008 the work stoppage puts the brakes on production of the Boeing's best-selling airliners and Deals another to the struggling aircraft manufacturer let's bring in the co-anchor of CNBC squawkbox and New York Times columnist Andrew Ros sorin so Andrew tell us more about the economic Fallout from this strike potentially well this could have a real ripple effect uh the last time there was a strike at Boeing it costs Boeing itself a $100 million a day but then you start to think about how that ripples across not just inside Boeing but all the suppliers for Boeing and then if you really start to extrapolate out what It ultimately means for a lines who are waiting for these planes and ultimately what it means there for passengers uh who you know months from now a year from now depending on how long a strike uh were to take place uh you know you could see higher airfares uh down the line um there is a question mark about why Boeing didn't negotiate harder or not harder but uh and compromise more with these workers a 90 plus 95% plus workers rejected this uh offer uh they're seeking 40% raise raes the offer on the table is a 25% raise but uh their bonuses their annual bonuses get eliminated so uh there's a real question why Boeing which is struggled as we know when we talked about all of the the different issues that they have faced uh wouldn't be more inclined they say they want to get to the negotiating table again but uh would let this go at this point uh given uh just how many headwinds they already are confronting uh I want to ask you now about uh mortgage rates which have fallen to the lowest level since February of 2023 what does this mean for the housing market it's a good news but not uh amazing news we're down to about 6.2% um which by the way is the lowest since 2023 but you know one of the problems we've talked about it uh before on this program is you have this locking effect so many people who got 30-year mortgages in 2018 19 2021 and perhaps even before that uh you know at at rates that worth you know 3% 3 and 1.2% and so the monthly cost of selling your home and moving is still so much higher and so you have this Mobility problem physical Mobility problem but it's also if impacted by the way uh the labor market because people are less willing to say you know what I'm going to go take a job in another state because I'm GNA have to sell my home and then I'm going have to buy a new home and even though the new home May cost the same as the old home my monthly cost is going to be that much higher so it's good news that rates are coming down there's no question but we are still so far from where we were two and three and four years ago that I think it's going to be very hard to quote unquote feel that effect at least in the immediate term all right CNBC is Andrew rorin thank you very very much and time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning in North Dakota a district judge has struck down the states near total abortion ban in his ruling the judge argued North Dakota's Constitution gives women a quote fundamental right to choose a abortion adding that the state's ban was too vague North Dakota's attorney general a republican has promised to appeal this decision a federal judge blocked Utah from enforcing a new law that would have required social media platforms to verify the ages of their users the judge issued a preliminary injunction saying the law likely violated the First Amendment the Food and Drug Administration has approved a piece of software that will transform the latest model of Apple's airpods Pro earbuds into the over over the- counter hearing age the new feature will be pushed to eligible devices through an update in the coming weeks look forward to hearing more on that in the first batch of the US Postal Services long awaited new delivery trucks have finally made their debut the new trucks which come equipped with modern safety features and one long overdue feature air conditioning are receiving High praise from postal workers and coming up the fashion industry wants to get out the vote we'll take I was very happy because I got the endorsement of the vice president's family and I got the endorsement of the vice president's brother that was uh Donald Trump in Arizona yesterday repeatedly referring to Governor Tim walz as the vice president confusing his title and promoting him to the position that he's seeking this November okay the fashion industry wants to get out the vote last week more than 1,000 influential designers models retailers Factory workers and influencers participated in the fashion for our future March in New York City to advocate for democracy and encourage voter registration ahead of November's election first lady Jill Biden was a surprised keynote speaker at the event which kicked off the start of New York Fashion Week the nonprofit I am a voter was also on site to register participantes participants to vote I am a voter co-founder Mandana diani was there talking to participants take a look Tom Rogers and Republican strategist Susan Del Puro they have co-authored an oped for Newsweek entitled and gendering support for Supreme Court reform is a matter of gender and Susan will start with you tell us about the new piece well the new piece is focused on it's actually the second piece we were on earlier a couple of or I think last month talking about um the actual like numbers number crunching in people's opinions of the Supreme Court this piece Dives in deeper as to what can motivate or change make real change especially on issues like term limits or Court expansion Tom really has the the dig in on how that happens but politically I think it could be a really useful tool for a hopeful uh V uh president Harris to use as a way to create some Unity within within the Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate because most people want reform they may not want to expand the court but they want the reform so Tom what's the dig in that Susan's referring to well the uh previous numbers we talked about there's broad support for Biden's reform proposals especially uh ethics reform on the court and uh term limits um this dug in how do people's views on abortion and gun control affect their view of change on the Supreme Court um very interesting um there's a plurality of people who do do not support expanding the court even though expansion of the Court may be the only way realistically near term to deal with the Supreme Court's decision in overturning roie Wade and the Supreme Court's decisions limiting uh the ability to control guns in a meaningful way and uh that is a very very significant issue but what is fascinating about it is women do support expansion of the Court meaning allowing four more justices to come to uh overcome the conservative majority today and turn it into a 76 Court uh term limits lot of broad support but many argue would take Constitutional Amendment never will happen and uh even if you don't do it with con with with a constitutional amendment and try to do it legislatively take generation to really affect how staggered term limits affect the current balance but if Kama Harris is elected and she holds the Senate uh a 5050 Senate and having the vice president is enough now to approve new justices because of Mitch McConnell getting rid of the 60 vote Phil Buster culture rule that immediately changes reform uh women and Democrats strongly support that but I have a political question here which is so obviously morally the court is remaking the country in a radical way which is not their job um but technically uh politicians have not done well when they've changed the makeup of the Court do you think that anxiety is real and do you think that Democrats could lose on that if they do it's a it's a great question cuz the way the question was posed was would you support expansion of the Court even though it would increase polarization nationally and create deadlock in Congress that's the only way to answer it CU there are huge consequences to the rather radical step of expanding the court to 13 and even ask that way women supported it Democrats overwhelmingly supported it so if the first woman president of the United States wants to catalyze her gender to deal with the issue that may win this election for her abort the pro-choice abortion plank uh this would practically be the only way to do it but near term if she wanted to actually get some something through the politically she could go for ethics reform that has overwhelming support and with the court approval rating being at 34% and this was a number that really troubled me only 31% of the people pulled felt that the court was fair and nonpartisan so I think getting something like ethics reform through could be a political win and actually make a difference for the country we need to have faith in our Supreme Court it has just gotten so low that it opens the door for a lot of divisiveness yeah I couldn't agree more the new pieces online now for Newsweek Tom Rogers and Susan Del pero thank you both very much for coming on on this Friday morning and still ahead on Morning Joe President Biden has called it the proudest yesterday speaking at the white house to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the violence against women act The Landmark legislation that he wrote and championed as a US senator the president hailed it as his proudest legislative accomplishment during his more than five Decades of serving in political office in Washington and joining us now Deputy assistant to the president and communications director for the First Lady Elizabeth Alexander Elizabeth it's so great to have you on the show um thanks M for I love this I love this topic because it it it sort of it's very Joe Biden he has a history of getting ahead of issues that people are only Whispering about and it makes me think of 2012 same same-sex marriage when he went on Meet the Press and he just said out loud what others were not prepared to say and that is who do you love who is it that you're going to be loyal to that's what marriage is about supporting same-sex marriage talk about the violence against women act and how much he was pushing the envelope back then on this issue that's right Ma I mean I I couldn't agree with you more um Joe Biden and his entire career has been ahead of issues and um I'll take you back to 1990 this was an issue domestic violence it was something as you said people were only Whispering about it no one was talking about it there were few resources and Joe Biden opened the door on this he shined a harsh spotline Spotlight on it on that abuse on what was going on across the country was treated as a private family matter it was being ignored by police dismissed by judges he changed that in 1990 he held historic hearings he brought survivors forth he gave them a platform a megaphone that they had never had before and they told their stories of horrific violence that they were facing often at the hands of those who were supposed to love them most and so Joe Biden as he does he listened but more importantly he forced others to listen and he acted and so in 1990 he wrote the law the violence against women act his proudest legislative achievement but it took years to get pasted there was opposition to it but he rallied those survivors he rallied Advocates and together because of his doggedness and his legislative expertise honestly and the courage of those survivors they got it passed in 1994 as part of the larger bipartisan crime Bill and millions of women have been saved because of it and so when we talk about Joe Biden's Legacy when we think about Joe Biden's Legacy I think of those women that were saved by vawa which it is frequently called and the generations of trauma sense that it likely prevented hi Elizabeth it's m Jang fast um I'm wondering in the the right sort of has no fault divorce in its cross hairs right now no fault divorce was another piece of this that prevented domestic violence can you talk about no fault divorce and also what this Administration can do to protect it well I I'm not an expert on no fault divorce but I am an expert um on Joe Biden's Legacy on this law and I think that you know a lot of abuse is happening in homes again like I said women wives girlfriends are often facing this violence at the hands of people who are supposed to love them most and that was what was happening back in the 90s it still happens today but today there is public outrage on it there is there are L For Justice there's accountability today that wasn't there 30 years ago and so as far as it relates to divorce I mean now it's not treated as a family matter violence comes out in court it's talked about Judges recognize it and so I can imagine that it's H that it's has an impact this legislation specifically for 30 years in the courtroom all right Deputy assistant to the president and communications director for the First Lady Elizabeth Alexander thank you very much for coming on the show this morning we appreciate it all right take care coming up the New York Times says it's refreshing to see actors so actively dedicating themselves to I love it that's a look at the new Broadway Revival of the musical Once Upon a mattress originally debuting on Broadway back in 1959 and launching the career of legendary comedian Carol Bernett the show is a retelling of The Princess and the pee the fairy tale and the courtship between princess Winfred and Prince dauntless whose mother the queen makes every attempt to stop their wedding from ever happening joining us now the co-stars of Once Upon a mattress Tony Award winner Sutton Foster and Drama Desk Award winner Michael Yuri Sutton and Michael welcome to the show it's great to have you both um thank you so I'm I'm going to ask you both Sutton you start like the twist is it shocking is it upsetting is it inspiring like both of you describe the twist without giving it away s you start the twist it sounds like this epic like horror story yeah no um it's I mean it's uh the best part is that I get to play a character that's unexpected she's Fish Out of Water she um comes to this town and uh sort of breathes new life and uh she's not your typical pr princess and uh it's it's and their unusual characters even Prince dauntless is not your usual Prince and there's this great line in the show that says oh Prince Donas is unusual and Princess Winfred is unusual and maybe they can be unusual together and it's it's so that's sort of the essence of like embracing your [Applause] uniqueness yeah we get to yeah we get to play these sort of unorthodox versions of of a prince and a princess um the kingdom where our show takes place is is um is under a a very strict rule this um sort of evil queen is not letting anyone get married until she finds the appropriate princess for her son but there is no one that will meet her standards so no one can get married uh and then in comes princess Winfred uh over over the the parapet covered in sludge from swimming the Moe um and he immediately falls in love with her and she sort of turns the entire Kingdom around everybody everybody's able to break out of their shell because of her it's really it's really about this this um oppressed Community this suppressed um sort of nation uh that are looking to this amazing woman to come and uh save them oh my God that's really good Molly I feel like this leads into my question which was this is very feminist Musical and it's very and the two of you have been in a lot of stuff together um talk to me about the sort of real worldy implications of a musical like this which has this positive message for women and for young girls well and it was I mean originally in 1959 and that it is still so relevant today in 2024 I have a seven-year-old daughter and um I was like all right maybe this is finally a princess we can get behind but really is it's it's um it was revolutionary then and to have a a character you know her nickname's Fred and she's um uniquely unique and and and that the thing I love about her is that she is just who she is and she isn't trying to be unique she isn't trying to be different she just Embraces all of it and comes in and is celebrate ultimately celebrated for it so you need your partners on stage to be on Mark when you do that tilt over oh yeah it's a the ultimate trust so M mentioned in the in the open car berett obviously launched her career 1959 you've got some big shoes to step into I know she came out and was so excited about you having the role have you had any interaction with her yeah yes we've spoken on the phone and I got to meet her in person uh before we started rehearsals and it was um sort of mindblowing I grew up watching the Carol Bernett show she's like my hero and I the idea that I now know her that she knows my name or that I'm even playing this role is sort of it's a it's still like a pinch me pinch me moment but she's extraordinary and I think has paved the way for so many young comedians too um being able to see someone like that on television who was unafraid to be goofy and um and make people laugh and and create such an environment with that show that was so so much about being an an ensemble and and celebrating and setting up each other um and making each other laugh you know that and that's essentially what we get to do every night on stage with the Ensemble of people that we get to work with that Carol Bernett that Carol Bernett show uh sort of tightwire that they they were they trying not to laugh doing something completely insane wearing curtains or whatever uh that happens every night at once upon a mattress we almost laugh at each other you two are like at the top of your game but you're also friends talk to us about what because we've I've worked with you guys on younger right and you've worked with each other a bunch talk to us about your relationship oh it's she's the greatest um and I when whenever I would guest on younger I would always feel it she sets a tone that is uh inspiring that is creative that is collaborative and doing a show like this where we we do the show eight times a week it is exhausting it's physically exhausting always wonder how you guys do that it's incredibly and and we have to go to Time Square every time the theater getting to the theater is like a job and um and then we go on stage and we play and there are the the the giggles of children um in the audience that that Inspire us and it feels like I feel like a kid again I feel like I'm a kid and we go out and have a play date every show it's really you are a kid yes exactly no but and it's so awesome to have such a wonderful relationship and it's just completely you just no matter where either of us go we we catch each other and it's just it really is we just get to play every night it's pretty awesome that is the best kind of job when you love it The Limited engagement of Once Upon a mattress is playing now at the Hudson theater through November 30th Co are Sutton Foster and Michael Yuri thank you both congratulations well they've got things going again here and I wonder what kind of second half we have in store for us return to ham really clever [Music] press close just fa to keep has attempt down and the pass was just that little bit off nearly found its Target Maham quick thinking to win it back on the back of that particular challenge will the referee let the rest there a very good tackle high quality pass from usio Ronaldo here who can he Pi out CR is well again at one point I wasn't quite sure we were going to be saying that well it's a good recovery but what was he thinking he's just about G away with that one the referee correctly decided to play advantage Ronaldo Malini onto mbapp can he give them the advantage oh the it was anything but a chance now with the corner can he do it from Mil out well a powerful effort but just wide those stats really do paint the picture so many chances but yet little end product but surely the Breakthrough is coming giving it a real go in the wide area Ronaldo very alert defending to put a stop to the chance excellent use of the ball as they make their way forward wonderful well it comes to nothing in the end oh great vision oh a really untiy loss of possession yeah flection off the defender there here it is now a substitution P they couldn't take advantage of the opportunity the there there to intercept 15 minutes left for play long wayal keeping it on the ground slightly off Target however from Peri wful again in possession push push push push oh what a top pass no end prodct are and coly done in the end and nicely struck oh God out to beir [Music] fore be the deci for [Laughter] no so underway again andere VI for the home team no complaints from the comfortable win in the end Des