[Music] welcome to the center of the universe and the home of the 18-time gray Cup champion Toronto Argonauts this is the x's and Argos podcast with Ben Grant and [Music] JB welcome to the x's and Aros postgame reaction podcast brought to you by Something In The Water Brewing the Toronto Argonauts lose 4127 to the Ottawa red blacks it was raining on the field it was raining on the stat sheet it was raining on the scoreboard it was rain everywhere this was uh I guess a little bit of pathetic fallacy I guess we call it JB um but before we get into the recap uh I want to tell you about something in the water brewing and this is the perfect opportunity for you to grab a beer from Something In The Water Brewing because you need something uh to uh make you forget about uh the game that was over these last three hours JB 4127 uh I know you would love a definitely love a a farm to glass pillner right now I could certainly use a longbo pale ale the beer that was made for fans of the double blue uh what do you make of what went on here today JB look obviously first things first honor is due Ottawa played uh incredibly well Ottawa is very good at home um I have been on the record about them being fraudulent uh but they smacked around the Argos today and impressed me uh um you know they are very well coached and uh and are you know I think going to be a problem if you have to play them at home in the playoffs I continue not to see it and I will give I still will give Ottawa credit because they keep they keep finding ways to win but even today's game you look at like start breaking down what happened and and go back through it they ended up they were up 313 in the first half but almost all of that was Toronto just exploding like unraveling doing it to themselves like it wasn't there was Ottawa had the entire game I think one nice drive that that went start to finish and ended in a touchdown and now they obviously deserve the win there's no question they were the better team today no question and week after week they find a way to win but it's seems more like when Ottawa wins they they're really good at forcing the opposition to make mistakes and that seems to be what happened here today Aro got a bit unlucky but you're not going to get you can't put this on luck you don't lose by this many points because of luck and I know it ended up being a 14-point game at the end but really this was this game was over at halftime and it was a 28-point lead but look at some of those plays that went wrong the AR goes with a quick receiver screen out to the right the ball seems to slip out of Chad Kelly's hands the the ball was wet it's raining the ball slips on those quick screens you're not able to get the laces and again I don't want to make excuses for Chad Kelly cuz both quarterbacks are playing in the same conditions but the ball didn't bounce the same way for both teams so that flies out of his hands uh looked like Tommy Neil missed his block on Damon web who was able to tip the ball into the air and catch it himself and run it in for a touchdown and suddenly you're down seven nothing and it seemed like those those three picks that Chad Kelly threw the first three picks all had to do with the ball sailing out of his hand the second one was a slant route to Dave rer and it went about 8 yards over anger's head because it it it sailed out of his hand and uh and it went right to an Ottawa Defender for another pick and uh and even the last the second pick six it goes off Makai P's hands pops into the air right into Damon web's lap who runs at 95 yards for a touchdown and that is such a huge swing because Toronto was driving to get right back in the game now suddenly it's a pick six the other way and you're trailing and so it was it just seemed like play after play there was really bad luck for Toronto really good luck for Ottawa um and yeah I mean for sure for Toronto did not have the ball luck today I mean there were there were at least three times that Ottawa put the ball on the ground and another Ottawa player was somehow first to get it and you know on you just see that and you know it's not going to be your day but I I think what's more worrisome is that the offense is just not looking um very Co cohesive you know it it doesn't look like an offense it looks like you know Chad is trying to throw dagger after dagger and then they're not really running the ball and and the plays don't seem to sort of build upon each other you know it it it obviously they're down so that throws you off but the offense felt really disjointed today it did it did not you know I I still think you know they're having a hard time integrating Chad into an offense midseason without having had a lot of practice time and it you know they they haven't they haven't found the balance yet um with how they want to run this offense it just seems a little a little D boardy at the moment yeah I agree with that completely it just you don't really have the feel of a system it doesn't have there's not plays aren't setting up other plays like you look at the quick screens that they like to run for example those quick screens that usually will if you're building a system and trying to create something off of it well that quick screen should turn into a pump fake out wide and then a hit over top or uh making use of of the Run game that they've clearly established this season that's working really well and that's got to be part of the offense and that wasn't really there and I know in the second half you can't really expect that because they were down by four touchdowns so I'm not looking them for them to hand off the ball to to kadem KY all second half but in the first half he was running really well his first first three carries were great and that was it that's all he got in in the first half of of football and so I think that ties into what you're saying like building a system putting the offense together making it look like an offense and not just plays on a a dartboard or roulette wheel and you know I mean I'm not you know there are things that are concerning to me I mean I think that you know last year they had an alltime defense I think you know clearly it was an alltime all League defense and we talked about how that defense really was a terrific safety net for for for Chad Kelly who could turn it over and and was you know was able to be sort of carried a little bit and this defense you know just does not have the Firepower uh that last year's defense did um you know I think the defense is good when healthy I think is quite good but it's not last year defense which was you know so part of it is definitely that that when Chad makes errors um it's going to be a bigger problem um you know the pick sixes have increased um and there there seems to be you know he he just seems to get really frustrated and and you know he's throwing that slant as a rocket ball and you know I there just has to be uh more you know more calmness to coming back um and getting those scores this you know this is an offense that you know can score but it it seemed really frenzy you know he just seems you know it just everything seems like he's going 150 miles an hour out there um and you know like it's just too hectic as an offense it just just feels feels a little bit out of control and each each increasing interception you know more so and I think a big problem here and maybe why this is like I think what we're what we're saying I think is is correct like what we see I think is correct but I think where it may be a bit unfair is that we haven't seen a Chad Kelly game yet where they've been working under normal conditions in all three games they've been behind so early they got down I think it was 13 nothing against Saskatchewan 213 against Hamilton and then 20 or 313 today against the Ottawa redblock it's very tough to go out there and and run your script run your game plan when everything is is going backwards at 100 miles hour and so maybe that's been part of it too um but yeah it certainly we haven't seen the cohesion that that we're hoping for um let's look through some individual players as um as we kind of go through this this postgame reaction wrapup Chad Kelly's numbers like if I told you pregame that Chad was going to throw for and I'm hoping that these stats on on CFL connect are correct their site was down for a little bit today so I don't know that the numbers are exact but I think they they must be somewhere in this ballpark so right now it's showing Chad Kelly as 36 of 56 which would be a Toronto Argonauts record for pass attempts surpassing Ricky Ray's 55 and 463 yards so if I told you Jad Kelly had thrown for 46 3 yards and three touchdowns I think you would think this would be a huge Argonauts win but is sometimes the case in the CFL when you put up huge numbers like that it's because you had to throw the whole game and you were chasing from behind and maybe the number that's most important there that I didn't mention is the interceptions and the total six turnovers when you include um uh turnover on Downs so Jack Kell's numbers like what what do you think of his play and his decision making today I felt like a lot of the stuff early was ball and weather related I saw him throwing on the sideline trying to just trying to get a feel for the ball like in between possessions trying to get a a feel for how that ball was taking off out of his hand because it did seem to fly on him a few times um but he looked nervous in the pocket and I haven't really seen that from Chad much before where it looked like the protection was holding up but he was sort of ducking and looking to scramble when he maybe didn't need to and yet he threw for 463 yards and three touchdowns as well so he clearly did some things right yeah yeah I mean that's just that's the hard thing I don't want to put it all on him because look there were there were problems all over the field um the offensive line is not as good as it was last year and in the three games that that that Kelly has been back he has not had a lot of time in the pocket I mean he ended up being sacked six times I think today yeah um that of course is going to speed his game clock up if if he doesn't or if he can't really settle in the pocket so that that's a problem I think protection is definitely a problem like clearly the Argos have not been able to protect their quarterback very well I think they lead the league and sacks given up um that you know that's a big problem you can't can't have that so like that's got to get fixed at the offensive line um you know they had some injuries a wide receiver and they don't have their full you know their full roster out there in terms of who Chad truss I thought Coy had an amazing game um you know I think that you know Kelly is still doing a lot of great stuff it's just he he um you know he he's still trying to do the big play too much it looks like to me anyway sometimes is that you know he wants to make the big play and and sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not and he's he's putting the ball into dangerous situations you know you you you have you can't have that many turnovers you just have to make different decisions and uh you know he's he's got to get the turnovers you know they showed the stat that he is more pick sixes than touchdowns in his return like that that you know that's a bit of it's not a huge margin of of information you know in terms of how long but you know that has to get fixed I I I do think that the the offense does have to get better at at not turning the ball over or putting the ball into into dangerous situations and I do think they have to run the ball more um you know they have to they have to get more balanced with the offense but it it probably boils down to protection as most things do in football you know if when you lead the league and sack's given up it's a problem and some quarterbacks handle it better than others and and and Chad is somebody who likes to have a pocket I mean he can move around but he he wants to have a pocket and I just don't think he trusts the pocket and he's he's speeding up his decisions and then throwing rocket balls down the field to make up for it I actually thought the pass protection was pretty good last week I thought they actually opened up uh windows for him to be able to see well but today I didn't feel that now again it's on 56 passing attempts and so and on like 60 dropbacks so there were going to be a few plays that stood out there were a couple there was a Mis Blitz up the middle fromi linebacker there was a blitz that wasn't picked up from the outside and it did seem like U Chad was a little bit nervous and had Happy Feet in the pocket a little bit but I don't know if it's I I don't know if I see that as being like a theme over the last couple weeks I think most of those sacks that theago surrendered came earlier in the season I don't feel like over the last two weeks that Chad's been under tremendous pressure snap after snap but today it did feel a little bit more like that but I don't know it it just it it didn't seem right I don't know I going to have to rewatch this again and get a better sense of it but I didn't feel like I didn't feel like the offensive line were was a Civ or anything like that today it didn't wasn't like guys were getting through on every play and yet six sa is is six sa yeah I mean I agree it wasn't every play but it did feel like like the like he like the that that the center was getting pushed back that he wasn't able to kind of step up a couple times it did even if he wasn't necessarily it didn't feel like a clean pocket today thought I thought Ottawa obviously they had six sacks I mean I think Ottawa did a very good job of making Chad uncomfortable in the pocket and and I think he's shown that when he's uncomfortable in the pocket that sometimes he he doesn't make great decisions let's move on to talk about the Run game and then we'll get into receivers uh kadim carry five carries for 46 yards uh he had a long of 32 what do you make of not running more in the first first half is this a case of you think coach D's just not scripting run plays in the first half is it that he wanted to really try and get Chad going is it is it an oversight like how do you how do you read that because it just kind of stood out as strange to me yeah I I don't I don't know I mean you know Carrie has been really good um I don't know you know obviously when you're down in the second half you're trying to score touchdowns but even that I don't I don't think precludes you know like the whole half not running the ball you know I understand if you're you know that you can't run the ball a lot but I I don't think you should just simply give up on running the ball because you need to score touchdowns um yeah you know I yeah I I don't know I again they they haven't they haven't found that balance that they had with olette when they were really cooking last year where the Run played off the pass and the two really made it dangerous um you know maybe even with car success he's not a back that Demands a full box um you know maybe they found that the teams are still playing in that uh I don't know like um but I I I do know that they need to they need to find a way to get more um you know more balanced I I don't need 5050 but I think getting the Run game going uh I think it's just going to make the offense a little more sophisticated than I don't think you want a quarterback throwing it 56 times I just that's just not going to win you football games no you don't now most of that is in the second half where the game was was either Out Of Reach or you're just desperately trying to get back into it and trying to even just for the sake of points because this could come down to if Toronto wins the game against Ottawa as a tiebreaker point to IAL could actually come into play less likely because Ottawa has a tie in there so these two teams aren't likely to have identical records at the end of the season but you never know you don't know how it's going to work out so you want to take care of that but they were throwing the ball a lot obviously in the second half like for me it's it's so strange to look at because you break it down individually say well how you know what's wrong with Toronto's offense they're they're throwing for yards and today for touchdowns you have like Chad Kelly's worst game in terms of yardage is 322 passing yards they they would killed for that in the first nine games of the Season where quarterbacks were throwing for 150 170 and suddenly now you've got Chad Kelly throwing for over 300 yards kadim kre is one of the best backs in the league the Run game is working really well and yet they it just doesn't seem to generate like these numbers should be blowing teams away and yet they haven't been able to string Drives together somehow especially in the early stages and the message was clear all week like everybody knew the focus like Flo Rady talked about this earlier in the week about how Toronto's Focus had to be getting off to a fast start because they got off to slow starts against the scatch onean and against Hamilton uh they were able to come back against the scatch onean despite being down 13 nothing they were almost able to come back against Hamilton and it was just way to the hole has been getting bigger every week There's a 13-point Hole then an 18-point hole and now a 28 point hole that they dug themselves into so it's been getting worse and I don't know with all that's been going right offensively I don't know how this continues to happen well I think it's a good transition because you know the defense of course also has to wear some of this you know the pick sixes are the pick sixes and you know obviously that there's nothing they can do about that but you know defensively they did not get any pressure right zero sacks to six sacks for Ottawa um the defense is not turning the ball over uh the defense is not getting interceptions the defense is not rushing or or or getting to the quarterback um you know the defense was um you know still pretty good at at at keeping the run in check which is great but you need you need a little more from the defense I mean at the end of the day you know Ottawa you know threw for a lot and and you know when you're when you're looking at it that you know there are a lot of passing plays for touchdowns that that have to get cleaned up you know where guys are just not not making plays um so I I yeah I don't think we can just load this on the offense I mean I think the defense in the secondary has got to you know has to make more plays just have to make more interceptions more knockdowns they can't they can't have these you know like skinny post uh you know 40 yard touchdowns you just you can't allow that it just is so um demoralizing or so defeating you know when you when you watch like a three-play process end up in a touchdown yeah and and that's what prevented tronto from be able to come back cuz the offense did kind of get things going but they needed to stop like in the second half they just they needed to find ways to at stops and that's where Drew Brown got a lot of his passing errors he still ended up like despite the fact that obviously 14 points were scored by ottawa's defense Drew Brown still threw for 349 yards and you can't allow that now like you said they did a great job defending the Run kayin lebour had 47 yards rushing but 33 of that came on one run that one touchdown run you take that one away you're left with nine carries for for what 14 yards and so they did defend the Run extremely well Jamal moral Two Carries for seven yards they they didn't allow Ottawa to rush that one play aside but passing defense was a problem and dropped picks you know Milton was hit in the hands early on how much does this game change if Milton is able to come away with that it was just an ill-advised throw from Drew Brown into double coverage he thought Milton had deep middle he didn't and suddenly he threw it Mark Milton's just waiting there for the ball to come down bounces off his hands incomplete I thought there were a couple that could have been picked off by Benji Franklin they would have been tough but it was possible another one that got tipped in the air and almost into the hands of Milton but it almost just wasn't converting for the Argos today just like on the other side of the ball you alluded to those two fumbles I still have no idea how that one fumble across the middle of the field there was six Argos players around the ball yeah somehow Justin Hardy came out of nowhere he wasn't even in View and he came out of nowhere and recovered the football the other one where Jamal Morrow just had the ball fly out of his hands and it bounced and landed into the hands of an Ottawa player who was on the ground and again nobody else near it and somehow they just couldn't get the breaks but it was about so many different things today it's the defense it's luck it's offensive playing offense playing poorly special teams this was a game where they really needed that break too where they could have used a spark and maybe Jan Grant taking one to the house I thought he actually played all right today but early in the season they were counting on those special teams touchdowns and they haven't had one in some time now and that was sorely needed in the first half of this game yeah you're not going to win playoff games with zero sacks and zero interceptions you have to have your defense providing offense you just have to you know you need all three phases to to win a playoff game to win a championship or you need a big special teams play you need special teams being kept in check on the opposition you know you need a fumble turnover you need an interception I mean these are you know these are not luxuries that you need that to win games and you know I think the if you look at the stat line it's a pretty it's a pretty clear stat line that you know offensively they were able to move the ball okay um you know defensively they were able to stop the run but they couldn't get pressure and they couldn't turn the ball over um and you know that that part you know was part of of why they were unable to uh you know to get back in this game where last year the defense was so good at getting the ball back and giving Kelly and the offense another shot that they just never got into those huge holes because even with a pick six or an interception you know there was a hold and then another hold and the defense was able to give the ball back to the offense to to try and and and the offense the defense is just not that level this year I don't you know that you look at who left I mean that's just you know I don't think that's a negative comment it's just a fact you know the defense is not you know as Elite as it was last year and and that's going to be a challenge for the offense they're going to have to play a little more risk adverse because they don't have that uh they don't have that safety net let's look at uh some of the stand up performances there were a couple on offense and I also want to shout out Isaac darkangelo uh filling in at middle linebacker making is not only being on the dress roster um but making making a start uh today in Ottawa middle linebacker and then you also had Dylan gfin playing left guard for for Ryan Hunter um and those guys I don't think sorry to jum also I think you know you can make the point much better than I I don't think it can be understated how many Argos were not in this game yeah if we can well let's we can look at that as we're talking about the guys that that came in and performed well you've got so first of all like there's no way that deshan Amos is 100% I actually thought he looked pretty good they didn't even really go his way very much tonight but he's not 100% for sure you got won mcmanis who is out um and has been out for a long time you've got Jared Brinkman um so again W mcmanis the best linebacker in the CFL uh Jared Brickman the best run stopping nose tackle in the CFL those guys are both out um you've got uh multiple defensive backs that are out um you got multiple receivers who are still out and working their way back um you've got offensive lineman who are out Darius srao hasn't played all year you got Ryan Hunter who wasn't available for today's game um it's it's not a short list like this is about as healthy as Toronto has been and they've got 11 guys on the six game injured list right now but the reason it's not really a good excuse today is that Ottawa has been extremely banged up too they were so short at receiver it was really just Rhymes and Hardy which is why all those targets went that way Drew Brown targeted those guys that combined 23 times today because he didn't even know the names of the other receivers out there they're so banged up at that position and they're offensive line they've got so many guys out of place they've got Eric stala starting at Center the former Toronto draft pick who not only couldn't crack the Toronto roster but couldn't even get on a a practice squad a few years back and he's their starting center they've got guys missing left right and Center and they were able to pass protect they kept Drew Brown clean all night and so the red blacks found a way to get done despite being injured so I don't really want to play the injury card here even though clearly those guys were were missed a couple plays where that that long touchdown pass actually over the middle in that post I think W mcmanis probably picks that instead Jonathan Jones didn't seem to be able to find the ball on that play and by the time he did it was too late and so though the injuries did play for Toronto but I think Ottawa found a way to get past their injuries and and get the job done Toronto really missed their guys that were out today uh final stats for some of those receivers how about how about anger Dave angerer II third eight catches 131 yards had a couple of outstanding catches along the sideline Makai pulk with that big 41 y early on he had seven catches for 105 Damonte Coy six catches for 91 yards and two touchdowns and I thought both of his touchdowns were Sensational one where he bowled over a number of Defenders juked a couple others stiff armed a guy to the ground and plowed across the goal line and then his other was a diing catch where the game's Out Of Reach but he's putting his body In Harm's Way fully extending to make that catch to see if he can bring his team back into into the game in the late stages and that to me just shows you that the team didn't give up and that's a positive sign that I I took from the last a few minutes of this game where it would have been very easy to just say you know what the game's Out Of Reach we're done and yet you still had guys diving for catches making contested plays down the sideline so I think there is something to be said for that and I think that speaks to to coach di Wy too keeping his players in the game and even he himself he's jumping up and down down the sideline like they the game well Out Of Reach and they're Barky at the officials there was a Miss call for uh Ottawa ran a play with h with no eligible receiver on the end of the line of scrimmage late in the in the game there and they're all barking it out pointing across the line saying where's the call there and uh and they're still engaged and still in the game and that allows players to still be engaged still be in the game so I do give it to the coaching staff for making their players play the full 60 Minutes even if they might have been absent for the first 30 of those uh when the score was uh working its way up to 31 to3 yeah Coy was player of the game I thought that that touchdown he scored where he sort of bowled over Five Guys was incredible yeah um you know I mean just just shows you his love of compete and most of the time you know we've been very spoiled with very very good teams who are winning a lot of football games and to be honest most times you know teams that kind of like Saskatchewan like Toronto is here like teams win one lose one win two lose two you know end up with 10 wins uh and so I think you know I mean it's not all doom and gloom I think for Toronto obviously they can play better than they did today they they they really shot themselves in the foot so like can they clean that up that that's really the question it's not a question of Ottawa was stronger or faster or bigger or outplayed them or out schemed them you know that's not the worry I think the worry is can Toronto find a way to to to not give the other team a three touchdown lead um my my Toronto lead at halftime um did not farewell today yeah I forgot you made that bet Toronto up at halftime and they were down 20 FanDuel actually called me and laughed and then hung out I bet uh well it does not get any easier for the Toronto Argonauts their next game Friday the 13th oh God the trips that I have made to BC place to watch the Argos get annihilated it has to come to an end I actually honestly I this this is the best I've felt going into BC in a while because I think after a game like this you just got embarrassed they just got embarrassed and I know like the players on this team the coaching staff here there's I just can't see them allowing this to happen BC's coming off a huge momentum building win against Montreal they're high right now Toronto is going to they're going to come into that game Angry and I know I I might hate myself for doing this later but actually feel pretty good about the Argos chances in BC and it's been a long time since I've been able to say that but I just think I think the it's it's one of those perfect storms that is going to take place and what better night than Friday the 13th at BC Place the home of this year's gray cup for it all to come together well that will just about do it for us here on the Xs and Aro postgame reaction podcast again it's Ottawa 41 Toronto 27 for JB this has Ben Grant saying so long and may all your priest SN reads be good ones I'll see [Music] you Tonto AR go go go pull together fight the pull together till the great go go Tonto go go go go go [Music]