Moments That Make Us: Michelle Obama on Leaving the White House, Friends, & Power in Small Actions

the real power happens often times when I talk to that one girl in Malawi and you don't know how you touch her right you don't know how you touch her but if you're so busy looking at the bigger problem you miss that chance to connect to celebrate turning 60 this year I chatted with women of all ages about their biggest life transitions I'm Melinda French Gates and these are the moments that make us I feel really lucky that I've gotten to know you a bit over the last many years and I just want to have a conversation I'm about to turn 60 this summer you've turned 60 this year let's just start a little bit with transitions we all go through lots of transitions in life but you've been through some big ones I know people have asked you a lot about okay what was it like to transition into the White House but what I really want to know is what was it like to transition out what was the next day like for you and a good question yeah and then how have you kind of thought about like designing your life and who you want to be yeah yeah well first of all thank you for including me in these amazing conversations and happy birthday ahead of time the 60 club I I told you it's going to be good okay it's going to be good but transitions yeah the day after we left the White House first of all it felt good and strange because we still lived in DC we made the decision to stay in Washington and the girls were in school and their lives were in DC I mean we had successfully transitioned them and raised them in DC they had lived in the White House longer than they had lived anywhere so I didn't want to make a transition for them just for another year or so and I knew when Malia would want to come home for breaks she'd want to come home to her friends so we stayed in DC so it was strange you know you take the final helicopter ride we didn't stay in DC but we flew to Andrews and got our very last uh Ride On Air Force one we took a quick vacation we went to Palm Springs so the day after we were out of DC we were in another place so it felt like we were on vacation but then when we came back to our new home it was odd it was odd coming down a different street and parking through a different set of barricades because we still had barricades we still had secret service but I had a front door you know it's like the little things like I had a front door that I could open where people would walk up to visit and ring the doorbell and our dogs didn't know what a doorbell was oh my gosh you're kidding me cuz they had never heard a doorbell did they bark a lot they sort of looked around like what's that so it was just the freedom of opening my own door walking down to my own kitchen I wrote in becoming about making cheese toast and opening up my back door on my own without calling Secret Service and clearing the South lawn and being able to sit in the warm sun on a porch and listen to Neighborhood sounds and other neighborhood dogs that my dogs weren't even used to that was huge just returning to some level of normaly and embracing that again but it was odd you know we really realized how much of a cocoon we had lived in what a sheltered way to live in the White House it was a wonderful 8 years but it was so abnormal and I think that first day being at a home a new home in a in a real Community with neighbors and all of that that felt refreshing to me so often we think about transitions like all the lead up to it all the okay I'm going to do this I'm going to do that but it's really the next day or in your case okay you took a vacation and then the next day is really you land in this place and you were there and you're there and you talk about in transitions to Focus not just on the enormous things but the small things I've been having a lot of conversations with people about um the power of small because I think in times like this that's when people they're feeling Panic they're feeling challenged they feel a bit hopeless and for the people who are doers in the world I hear them wrestling with what can I do that's big and can change all this and when I hear people talk like that you see them getting choked up in their own bigness most of us don't have a big platform most of us don't have access to Big Solutions and big thinking but we're often trained that that's all that matters is big change and the the things that can affect millions of people well the average person doesn't have that platform so it feels overwhelming and then it starts to feel hopeless I started thinking about this power of small as I I I wrote in my second book the light we carry because I was at that point during quarantine and the height of Co when my big platform was gone too all of our platforms were gone we were all ripped of our bigness to the extent that we had it and it didn't matter we were all equally average secluded and secluded now some of us were very advantaged and had very different experiences for sure but we were all Limited in what we could do and I was struggling in that time time with what do you do when the world is falling apart and people were dying and you know First Responders were at risk there was just such small percentage of people who were out there dayto day and we were used to being in the middle of all of this and we weren't in the white house so what do you do with all of that pain and energy and and and desire um I started turning Inward and that's when I started to knit I thought let me teach myself something new I'd never knitted before and it was just the Act and the beauty of the process of doing a knit and a pearl a simple set of stitches so small but those little bitty stitches led to something beautiful a scarf a sweater but it all started with a stitch and you couldn't get to the sweater without the Stitch and that made me think of like well that is change true change it's like when you look right before you with what's on your lap the thing you can control you know maybe it's mentoring a child maybe you can't change your school system but you can grab a young person for sure and be a part of seeing them you know maybe you can't fix the environment but you can educate the neighbor kids on the importance of the environment and we all have that power we all own that small power and when I I get people thinking along those terms like what can you uni uniquely control and that has value focus on that don't get overwhelmed by the big real change happens knit by knit Pearl by Pearl and I tell myself that too even Michelle Obama has to re remember that the real power happens often times when I talk to that one girl in Malawi and you don't know how you touch her right you don't know how you touch her but if you're so busy looking at the bigger problem you miss that chance to connect look that girl in the eye and see her and see her for that moment you know I've learned that that that could change her life you know forget if we didn't change the policy in Malawi but we know we walked away changing the way a girl saw herself that's right that's the power that moves me yeah and that she could and she also I think saw herself you were her mirror she saw herself reflected in your eyes and could say to herself I mean I saw it when I sat there with with those girls they could say oh I could be like her I'm not her but maybe I could be like her our trip was that to me was an illustration of that because here you and I and Amal we came with all our people and all our Fame and power but the beauty of that trip were the little moment were those small moments and we talked about that of how that and that moved us it changed us it got us more committed for sure and I think about so often people ask me about change in the community or change in the world and I say well it starts in your family yes it's the values you are baking in your family and in your children and then that has ripples in the community or maybe then you do some Community work and then maybe that adds up you of all people have had to be incredibly intentional about how you raised your daughters oh gosh yeah and I think you've talked about going from maybe being Mom and chief to maybe more like advisor and chief now I tell my kids I moved at some point to be more their coach at some point and then they go out in the world and it's more I'm there to listen that's right talk to me about how the importance of either family or how you've thought about your girls now that they are you know out of your nest a bit more oh gosh what a journey that is yeah Journey as a mom too right oh my God right you you talk about all the great learning I've done you know truly it hasn't been as a lawyer or as a head of a blah blah blah or the first lady it's like so much of that learning has come from trying to turn those two little people into valued and valuable humans in the world it's been quite a journey but yeah the intentionality I wrote about this uh in the light we carry I think about my approach to mothering and how uh how much my mother's mothering influenced that you know my mother didn't get a college education she worked as an administrative assistant all her life she was stay-at-home mom until I was in eth grade but she was wise in her parenting she was very intentional and it started with her intentionally seeing us not as babies that belong to her but as humans that she was raising up to be independent beings in the world and I think I share that philosophy that I never felt my job was to create mini mes or create people who were going to live out some Brokenness in me or you fill some hole or to be my friend you know it's my girl's joke I always said that my favorite line I'm not one of your little friends and I think it makes parenting very easy it's like I don't care if you like me I just want you to respect yourself and know what works we don't have to be friends and through that those boundaries we're such good friends but there was some lines drawn of course so I felt my job was rais raing people right and then when you're raising people rather than babies you make different decisions you start thinking you know do I send them off in the world and follow them and fix every problem for them because I don't want them to hurt oh well not seeing your kids hurt that's for me yeah you know but letting your kids hurt and fail and recover on their own and own their victories well that's for them because that's what they're doing right now and I'm not with them so I was intentional about understanding that my girls were not going to be with me forever so I had to raise them to be standup young people on their own especially as the daughters of a former president right you know but people are quick to cut a kid off if you don't show up right and you've got a name behind you so they have to become correct they have to they are watched they have to learn they had to learn how to B balance The Unwanted attention but do it politely to build their own lives in the spotlight and not be eaten up by it well those girls had to be smart and confident and independent straight away even when they were living in a house with Butlers and maids and Florist and but I was raising them thinking you're not going to live here and with me forever so I got to hand you your life soon and let you manage it right and so that was the intentionality of it and it had a lot to do with who they were but I think no matter who we were that would have been my Approach because I do think that the sooner young people learn to own their lives the better off they're able to manage what's to come and that's the only thing we know about life is that it is full of uncertainty and failure and hardship and disappointment I wanted to them to learn that and have those experiences under my roof where I could at least talk them through it totally and not prevent them from feeling it y right so that they could do it on their own when the time has come and it comes so fast it does it ever I I used to say to my kids too it's good like especially if they did fall down and have a failure let's say in school or in some part-time work they were pursuing it's good that you have this while you're under our roof CU I can coach you and I can give you ideas and but but under our roof is a great thing because then when you're out in the world you'll know how to navigate this and I always felt like for my three children it was about helping them find their gifts yeah that we all are born inherently valuable and inherently different and inherently different and with a goodness inside of us but the world can knock you around or tell you something or judge you but if you can find your gifts and have those gifts meet the world's calling wherever that is and in whatever way you're going to be okay you're just going to be okay and let us just say it's easier said than done oh my gosh right so this isn't like oh Miracle parenting we feel the same pain I mean to see your kid go through something hard oh and the tears and you're you want to cry I'm calling my friends you want to step in and just make it all go away um and that feeling is for us yeah it's not for them right you know and that's the thing I have to remember what am I doing that's for me and the things I need and what do they really need and none of it is easy that's what I found and that's what I I like to tell young parents it's like think about this before you enter into parenting it is the most beautiful thing in the world but it requires a level of focus and sacrifice that never ends so if you don't want that responsibility that heartache it's okay to take a pass on it but if you make the choice in my view it will be the most awesome ongoing heartbreaking responsibility you will ever have I haven't regretted it for a day but it is hard it's an enormous gift and you have to be selfless in it that's right let's talk about friendships friendships because I know you are really you've used the word I think rigorous at one point in your friendships and I think I would use the word intentional like you have really intentionally thought about the people who are around you in your life and at different phases I'm sure in life how do you build that network of trust of deserved trust how do you continue to build that and nurture that well I think first of all you have to really value it I think it starts there because I think you and I understand the value and you value something then you place a focus on it I value it we value it and I've always been that person so I think you have to Value it and then I think to nurture and cultivate it it takes a certain level of openness and Trust in your own judgment right because I think I've talked to I've met a lot of famous people in the world I've met a lot of interesting people there are some people who are afraid of it they're afraid of the openness maybe because they've been burned right or hurt or disappointed and the fear of that shuts you off I think right you don't want to I don't want to touch that again yep I always think okay I learned something there but because I value it so much I'm willing to trudge through all the pain and the hurt and the disappointment and the scariness because I think the end result is so important and that was particularly true in the White House we were fortunate to have a lot of good existing friends because we were intentional valued it worked on it you know made a point of cultivating and many of those people journeyed with us through and up the top of the mountain to the White House but once we were there I thought well what fun would that be that now we're here and we don't meet new people now we don't we don't make new friends we don't try to build new relationships ever again and we're pretty young this can't be it you know so I refuse to be afraid and I I want it to be open and I want it to model openness for the girls oh sure because it's like well I'm still teaching them the value and they were young when we came into the White House so they needed to see their mom reaching out and making an effort and as a mom of little kids even though I was the first lady I as I said I needed mom friends at the school I mean just out a straight up strategic necessity when you've got kids in school you need some friends just to tell you what's what what's going on exactly because I was never going to get the truth right yeah I was never going to get the full story so I I needed to start making some friends I wanted to know my kids friends parents now if you're going to if my kid was going to have a sleepover I needed to know well who are you people what are your values what are you talking about around the dinner table and I had to be open enough to just make a couple of mom friends who are among my Ohana of friends we just kept building and adding and I love getting my new friends to know my old friends I consider myself a generous friend like I want you to I want you to know my other friends for me [Music] mutuality of vulnerability and a friendship is important if I share something deeply with you and you're not sharing anything yeah I'm sort of like who what are we doing here exactly CU then it's just like it feels it feels flat or surfacy or it just my youngest daughter said to me um when she was starting High School you need to meet more moms of my friends in high schools cuz she was switching schools and she says I want you to meet more moms because this is your last chance to make friends and I thought wow my last chance in my whole life to make friends were you then but she was right I mean I met some just incredible moms and dads and then again when things you know the rubber meets the road then there's a party and you're like trying to decide does your daughter get to go to that party or you know some kids out of line you have to have your trusted Network that you can pick up the phone and call and go okay what's really going on here what's really going to happen at this party right is are the parents really going to be watching are they going to be in upstairs asleep yeah and you know the one thing I want to say yeah on the openness yeah if we weren't open we wouldn't be friends that's true I mean there's that is very true if you and I can make new friends because we've got a lot to lose there we there is every reason in the world while you or or I should be closed off but I wouldn't have gotten to know you and your spirit the way you you are open yeah you know and it's always you it's a pleasant surprise to meet someone who is worldly has been done things who is impactful but who is down to earth and is willing to share and you know not holding stuff back I mean at this age for sure we are 60 yeah and we're friends I know it's so it's so lovely and so unexpected I will say is the other thing I mean so we we were lucky enough to travel together to Malawi at the end of last year I think we both we both were really touched by what we saw and what we learned but the thing that was amazing is like I could say to you I'm just freaking tired I need to go to bed I would run out of energy sometimes and go like you could still keep going I'm like I'm done I'm out you and we got to know each other definitely I also learned Michelle but you have a wonderful sense of humor oh yeah and here it comes and a lot of fun like you like things that are fun you know where does that come from in you H I think that's how I grew up you know we we grew up in a big extended family you know we all lived I just me and my brother but both my mom and dad have big families lots of brothers and sisters and you know you have big families you do everything as a big family almost every birthday is celebrated so you see everybody every Sunday every Saturday and that was what we did we sat around and made each other laughed and laughed at the world and laughed through our problems and laughter was just a big part of getting through and we deploy that you know it it came in handy for the T 10 years of campaigning and serving as first family you know having some people you could could just look at stuff and go are you seeing what I'm seeing and laughing about it were there people who kind of pulled you back to Earth even know you're living this life your mom okay there you go she was a she was some down toe this right in our house she Mary and Robinson wasn't impressed with anything I mean I used to joke it's like look Mom I'm first lady give me what do I have to do you know it's like I took you to see the pope so she keeps me grounded I mean that I mean and it was so important having that that humbling energy for sure um in the midst of all that someone who is just not plus non plused about it all it helped the girls it helped Barack um so yes she's our she's our grounding energy let's talk for a minute about perfectionism you're teaching and mentoring a lot of younger people to be to realize they're enough they're enoughness talk about where sort of perfectionism showed up for you like how did you learn this concept of I am enough as women in this Society I think we all struggle with not enoughness and I'm still working on it you know when you're a woman a workingclass kid a a person of color you know there's always a proving right yes because people I have found throughout my life has set my bar low lower for me than I thought right I thought I was wonderful because I was raised in a household with parents who thought I was wonderful they thought me and my brother we were smart and we were funny and they enjoyed us and they sent us out into this world the world with this strong sense of selfness but then the world was waiting with their low expectations and their assumptions about who we were because of the color of our skin or because of my gender and and then you started coming across people who would assume you couldn't or shouldn't or can't or don't and you would start hearing the don'ts and the Ws and you were wondering but I'm amazing haven't you heard and then I had to learn that well now I got to prove to you yeah and I knew that at a very early age that if I didn't show up right it would just be assumed that I didn't belong that I couldn't so as early I share this story even as early as kindergarten I I remember this the sight spelling tests that we were given in kindergarten and I went into school reading cuz my mother was one of those mothers here's a book we're reading but for some reason we were doing colors and it they were on a card it was they weren't colors but it was the word black orange and we were reading them and the kids who could read all the cars got a star of course I knew all the words but I choked on the word white for whatever reason I was like why I blanked and I missed that word I didn't get a star and I remember feeling like I got to take that test tomorrow because I don't want my kindergarten thinking that I can't read Because I understood that if she didn't think I could read she would treat me like I couldn't read and I know I'm a good reader I just choke and I begged that woman the next day it wasn't sight words day the next day but I was like no no no we're doing it again cuz you're going to see me get that gold star that was Kindergarten wow T to force but here's the thing that I take away from that and share with and I share with the girls in Malawi kids know when they've got something in them M like you're you're born with it even if you're not shown it you you come with a level of Common Sense and seeing of the world and that happens really early in life I try to remind these girls you're not crazy you know if you knew what you could do at four and five and you know people are that's your right it's not them you're right it's the world that's got it wrong for whatever reason I had the temperament that didn't let that stuff squash me instead I was like I'll show you so I'll just work harder I'll be even better oh you don't think I'm going to be a good first lady oh you think I'm an angry black woman I'm going to work so hard I'm going to be the best first lady this country has ever seen cuz I can outwork all of you cuz I've been doing it my whole life but then that's perfectionism exactly so it's a kind of interesting mix of enoughness because it's you're proving you're enoughness trying to be seen and then the perfectionism comes from that it's all kind of mixed up but we all have it I know we've talked about it oh my God so much so you struggled for sure and same thing I was like I can prove that I'm better than the boys I can prove that I'm better at computer science I can prove that I'm good at math just because you don't see that maybe I could be but Society keeps giving you these messages and luckily I had parents from the very beginning that said you can be good at all these things you already inherently good and you can be good at anything you put your mind to that's why messages matter so much got to be the value added voice in your child's life you know I mean you you don't want to always tell them that they're right you you want them to you know you don't want them to think they're Flawless but they've got to hear more of the good from you because the bad is out there waiting for them and they got to get it from somewhere and I always tell the kids and for those of you who didn't have those parents didn't come from those households you got you got to suck it up wherever you can if you find that teacher that believes in you you glom on you know you find the light you bet you got to find the light and let that feed you because the darkness is there waiting you know but we as adults have to be mindful of the words we use with our kids you know cuz we can break them for sure we can break them with the with the wrong energy with the wrong tone tone with the wrong biases yep or look sometimes exactly well and it's why I think so often when I ask people who's the mo who is the most important person in your life growing up sometimes it's a parent for sure if they're lucky often times if they didn't for whatever reason have good parenting it's a coach or a teacher or an aunt or an uncle or a mentor so you Michelle just as we traveled in Malawi and then as I thought about these terms of endearment you've used for yourself mom and chief now advisor and chief to your girl what I saw was Mentor in Chief so what I want to say to you is thank you for being yourself thank you for being vulnerable and sharing of yourself and also sharing your story it just as I see you the more you have written your books the more you've understood your own story and the more you can take it takes a minute and then the more you can almost pull away from that perfectionism go I know I'm enough and and then you just get to be yourself and it's it's just been lovely for me to see you being yourself so thank you leave it to you to make your 60th birthday a gift to other people and other women by having these conversations that is so you thank you for you know giving me the honor of being in this conversation with you and thank you for your friendship thanks for doing this love it