Kadeena Cox: the life of a Paralympian

Intro welcome to the run as well podcast with me rick pearson me ben hobson and me jane mcgregor today we're speaking with paralympian kadena cox you are back jane people thought you'd like how are we guys how are we it's been a while i've gone really far away from my mic i've forgotten how to podcast on a whale gone down a wow sorry i'm here she's forgotten she goes you know a few weeks out she's completely forgotten what to do yeah what's the matter this is why people this is why we should just just get rid no um i'd love that that would be how you tell this is jane's last um episode and it was about mike ultimately it was the mic technique that was her undoing yeah but it was it was the fact she forgot her dodgy internet connection and her mic with i have enjoyed planning i've been do what i've taken the joy plan um i've taken it yeah international oh wow um i've been taking the joy plan to america and um they they like it i mean that's that's that's your key audience yeah audience that kind of that kind of joyful positivity is what is what everyone loves enforced joyful positivity yeah no cynicism um i was running in um central park last week and it was the most joyful running experience ever like so many people so many runners so many cyclists just laughing just laughing it's good it's a hotbed because i guess that in london or you know most cities there's kind of like alternatives in the uk you know you can kind of do this park or this certainly in london there's a few we're lucky to have some green spaces um but that feels central park feels like it it it was it was where if i was gonna host joy plan event that's where i'd do it because honestly like i think it's general i think it's because um you have to stop and cross the road every 10 seconds don't you when you're trying to run in new york because of the like blocks um so um i think it's where people go but it felt like i was in a race it was so great i'll tell you someone else who likes running for joy as as well as medals is our guest of the week [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to the run as well podcast i was actually looking for your cv and i think if anyone wants to feel like an underachiever they should look at what you've achieved in your life i think i'm right saying four-time olympian you won golds in both cycling and running which doesn't happen very often you're a lululemon ambassador and also thrillingly you were 2021 celebrity master chef champion so just an amazing amazing amount of strings to your bow i guess so when people say like that i'm like oh really is that me Winning an Olympic medal what is it like when we uh we i mean it's the same question we ask all olympians like we have loads on but we have a few a few sometimes what's it like winning an olympic medal because can you describe that feeling is it an occult is it the culmination of all the work or is it the event itself what's the sort of like leading emotion um you know what sometimes like it's literally just relief grafted for something like we it's a four year cycle so we literally spend like four years like grafting for this one big moment um and you could totally muck it up but you could be like literally like you know world number one and absolutely muck it up or you could go in um not as defending champion or you know as second in the world um and managed to step up on the day um and i've i've had it from various angles like rio i was kind of a nobody so to speak and you know i was able to just turn up and do what i did um tokyo was totally different because i was defending champion and there's then an expectation um so i think that one was more relieved i think rio is more like oh my god i've just done this really cool thing um and tokyo was like thank goodness i managed to pull that off otherwise that would be a little bit awkward yeah i mean that's the four year cycles Training blocks is kind of g i mean we all get stressed about training blocks that last about three months so i mean four years is quite a long time yeah time if you count the extra area yes of course yeah do you have any time off when you're doing that i mean i say time off it's not like but how do you manage the sort of like the training load with these with these blocks because you can't just be like peak fitness for four years no oh definitely imagine that i'd be like um no like so yeah we we do it like so obviously you've got uh it's really weird for me because obviously i've got two seasons of like two different sports i kind of run back to back um so we always have an off seasons like in athletics you kind of you're off season's like through the winter so like from like october-ish um and through till the indoor season which uh some people starts like december some people start january so you can't have yeah that kind of block kind of before christmas to like do like your off-season kind of like training um and normally before that people kind of end their season like um end of august september-ish um and then they'll have a couple of weeks off there so like get like four weeks just to kind of chill and do non-athlete stuff um and then you get back into that off-season training um and then you kind of have your indoor season if you're doing that and then you have a bit of another training block and you're onto your outdoor season um if you throw in cycling it doesn't quite work like that because my cycling season starts oh it starts kind of like january so a bit similar to the indoor season i guess for athletics um but i mean i do take a break because i do what i want but it's quite hard a lot of like my training partners are like getting into like they're like you know hard grinds when i'm like i'm just gonna wind down for a little minute you know just left just for this athletic season yes it's challenging doing the two sports um but i do get some downtime i'm always on holiday like i love a a little sun break so i'm i try to take breaks where i can yeah absolutely and obviously you've got two sports like how which came first how did you get into both like a bit about that kind of journey um so i i mean i my mom says i ran at seven months old i walked seven months old but one claims around um but i started athletic competitively when i was like 14 um and then when i got on well in 2014 um and became a paralympian as opposed to an olympian i was then able to transfer um across onto the gb team and pretty quickly and so i started um i guess at an elite level in 2015 um for athletics and pretty much started at the same time for cycling i basically started cycling because i couldn't run um because my balance was really bad after my ms diagnosis um and it was kind of just like a training tool like a lot of us in athletics use um cycling as cross training so like i was just doing that thinking it was like you know a really helpful smart thing to do um turns out i was actually quite good at it so i ended up getting certain cycling doing a bit of testing and got straight on to program with them um so yeah 2015 i basically ended up on two british programs which i was an issue told couldn't happen there was like a rule around it that you couldn't be like elite and on two different programs and then yeah i feel like i broke the barrier on that one and now quite a few people do it yeah it's extraordinary to win yeah Winning medals in different sports medals or win goals at the same olympics in different disciplines i mean we often in running there's that kind of talk about emile zatapek and how he won gold in five thousand ten thousand minutes and the marathon but i think to win it in different sports is even more extraordinary because it's the training we're quite required is obviously very different for each uh for each one yeah like it it is challenging um and i think you know as i've gotten older um i've realized how hard it is um and also as like you know paralympic sport moves on quite quickly i mean sport in general moves on quite quickly but paralympic sport moves on quite quickly you've got youngsters coming through you've got technology changing and things like cycling like technology changes quite often um and i think you know when you're trying to defend titles and trying to you know small margins after that for me like being at the top of my game it then becomes really really hard um and i'm such an injury-prone athlete that just trying to stay in one piece is hard so yeah doing two sports you know fatigue levels are high i have ms and my fatigue levels are high anyway and you're trying to do like essentially use the same muscles but in two different ways um so really it shouldn't work you know it is a bit a bit of a challenge trying to balance it i literally just had a meeting with um my uh my new new cycling coach and like my larger like um support team to try to figure out how we were going to move forward for the next two years and get to um the next um parliament games in a good place and figuring out figuring it all out and my new coach was a bit like oh this is interesting because obviously he's not like i have to deal with an athlete that doesn't know a sport he's like okay i'm just a cycling coach but he's really open to it which is great he's just like okay i just need to think about these little things as far as training with ms Training with MS kadena so if people aren't that familiar with the condition like what are some of the challenges around trying to be an elite athlete but how about having ms and what are some of the kind of considerations that you need to to make when when training yeah so like one of the major things with ms is fatigue um so i struggle massively with fatigue um so a lot of the time i don't really have the best social life like i spend a lot of time basically napping and just trying to like catch up on like any recovery i can um so i kind of base my life on what's called the spoon theory and it essentially says you have ten spoons in a day like you can get up and it'll take you two spoons to shower you know if you have to do the dishes it's going to take like another spoon like if you've got a walk the dog that's another two spoons training i normally like yeah that's something like five or six spoons like so like that's half my spoon is gone in a day and like you can take spoons from tomorrow but that means you're going to be impacted tomorrow because then you've only got like eight spoons so like that's how i kind of look at my fatigue so what it's always a balancing up with the fatigue um but then i get really bad like muscle spasms which then can like impact like my training so um if i'm like you know doing like cycling stuff it can be dangerous like if i'm having spasms and i can't control the bike um the same if you know i'm in the gym or if i'm doing running um you know it's easy to pick up injuries when you're like not in control of your body so well um i have limited sensation in my feet so i have to i have that the the only sensation i have in my feet is um i have like tingling sensations so it's like really extreme pins and needles um which has then been dampened down by medication so i now have like this do you know like if you like kind of like was sat on your leg for ages and then you stand up and you've got like this tingling that's kind of what i've got like all the time and that's my sensation so when i'm like if you've ever had that feeling when you like touch it like you get that weird like feedback when you're like touching so that's my feedback on the ground um reduce like i say by medication um but then it means like you know when you're running you kind of know where you're placing your feet whereas i've got that sensation and no appropriate section so actually learning how to like place my feet um and know where i'm hitting the ground can sometimes be like a real challenge so it's just a lot of it's muscle memory thanks to having ran before but like yeah that can be real challenging when my coach is like do this do that and i'm like i thought i was right yeah like it's like really having to like work with my coaches to make sure they're like giving me the right feedback so i can then figure out where i need to be yeah i like the spoons though i'm gonna have to start oh that's a great way of judging the day i'm gonna have to start doing that that sounds really useful because you do i mean you know everyone everyone's managing effort and load and recovery and all those sorts of things so i'm gonna start questioning how many spoons i'm using up yeah i like that it's cool i can get when you like look at like things like do i actually need to do that like yesterday my dishes really need to do them but i was like don't have the energy so they're gonna stay till tomorrow i love that excuse i'm going to use that now i mean yours your route into the sport was probably a little bit different in the fact that you sort of competed before your diagnosis and all those Accessibility things but what are the biggest hurdles in terms of accessibility to power sport that people face um i think depending on the sport that you do it can be cost um i i am a real advocate for getting people from different different backgrounds that are over its ethnic backgrounds whether it's kind of getting more females involved uh getting more disabled people involved in cycling just because cycling's such an expensive sport um like when i got my first bike i had to fundraise to get my first bike um and you know look luckily once i got on program i was you know fully supported but like prior to that it's really hard to try getting involved in a sport if you don't have you know the family support or like the support that from yourself um so that that that is a challenge also like just accessibility to facilities can sometimes be you know a real problem um it's obviously improving but like you know i know a lot of my friends um that are you wheelchair users that can you know turn up to places and like not be able to get in because that is just not accessible um most paralympians were just i don't know i feel like paralympians are like cut from a different britain wouldn't you like once you spent enough time around paralympians you realize we just like i remember and this is obviously not totally spot related at all but i remember getting to a club with them with with a rower who's a wheelchair user and it was like this dingy club that was like down in the basement and it was like a load of stairs and literally we got to the entrance and she was just like hey i just got one of the guys to like flip her over his shoulder and then someone grabbed the wheelchair yeah she wasn't missing out great this is after like 2016 and we were all celebrated um but yeah like when you're trying to get into like facilities just to be able to train like that's it's a real problem um like in athletics you've got you know racing chairs that are expensive you've got to be able to find that like if you're a frog for a fan of throwing frames and even people in the sport find it hard to get from frames um and then they said just knowing where to go like i remember so i'm a physio as well um and i was working with um a young girl who was um she'd she had a spina bifida and was just kind of figuring out she's quite young so she's kind of figuring out you know what she was gonna do with herself and she just um started having to use a wheelchair more often like she'd used like a frame for a while and she was kind of not feeling comfortable using a wheelchair um and i was trying to like help her when i was like or maybe try sport and like her and her mum just didn't know how to get into like any sport and he's just lucky i i was the physio at that time so i was able to be like i know this blah blah blah but that's because i was involved in like paralympic sport anyway um but like they just didn't know how to go about it i think you know not knowing sometimes i think i think london 2012 has obviously helped massively with like moving things forward and having that support but like there's so many different barriers um and as much as it's improving it's still like i feel like london 2012 like gave us a massive boom and then it kind of has like halted a little bit so it's just kind of keeping that momentum going because it is a challenge like when you do have a disability what like how is your training how is your training going this Training year what are you currently training for and how's everything going on that kind of perspective um really awkward question it's not um so i mean i nearly missed the games last year through the same injury so i've got a really bad achilles tendonitis in both achilles um which is yeah it's not ideal um so last year i spent like three months unable to run and so i literally had like five weeks of training before the paralympics so i'm impressed with how well i did i give myself a pat on the bottom of that one um yeah but like this year um i think i've got three sessions into training then i had a quad issue and which lasted like five weeks and then when that kind of eased up my achilles um on the right side flared up and i was just like this is not the time i'm trying to like you know get some qualifications done here um and then uh the left one just wanted to join the party so that flared up a couple of weeks ago um and off the back of that i told my um i told my calf um racing um two weeks ago so currently i'm just rehabbing so i've got the next kind of four weeks of rehab um and kind of see where the rest of the season leaves me um i've got cycling world championships in october which i'm really looking forward to um i lost my world title in 2020 um but obviously then retained my uh tokyo um paralympic title um so it would be nice to claim back the world title um as well this year um so that's kind of a really big aim for me um and yeah i'm not really sure like what i'm doing running wise because like i say i've literally just like started rehabbing my my um soleus tear so that's a process guys right yeah and it's a matter of like re i guess it's like reframing isn't it so it's like okay that's not goal this year Reframing this is my goal instead and how like is that really challenging when i guess i'm trying to think like from if i got injured before a marathon i'd be like okay well i'll do this instead and that's fine but when you're an athlete that's your life like how easy is it to kind of be like okay i'm going to put that in the back burner and focus on this for now yeah it's hard um like really hard i've really struggled um it's i think when you like you set like you have like i say we work on four-year cycles and you have like you know championships like you're aiming for and you know you're trying to qualify for this championship and do this and i think you just become like it just becomes like it that is your life and that's so normal and i've never not qualified for a championships um so i'm now like in this bizarre position where i'm like oh my god that's not happened and because it's not happened before i find it really hard to be like okay i'm not doing that championships like and like really being like okay like no i'm actually not doing that because like i've literally planned already like doing that championship like you know how it's going to work like my training up until that point my year up into that point like i haven't like got working like i've turned down work you know focusing on like doing championships and then you're like okay now i have to re-figure like like a good like you know three four months out which i didn't you know kind of plan for and now i'm rehabbing instead which is also quite um it can be quite like i don't know like rehab is sometimes harder than normal training and it can be quite you know draining and a bit demoralizing you know especially like mid-season like i literally got injured at the beginning of the season which is just rough um and then you've got to watch like you know all your like competitors like competing like your teammates and you know as much as i find it exciting like i love athletics so i still like get like an athlete buzz just by watching people um but it's rough like you know when you want to be competing so yeah there's part of the time when i actually don't want to watch so like i won't watch like races i should be in like i'll just like watch people like i'm like yeah and support the team um but you know if you see me literally on a sun lounger for a lot of this summer it's because i just need to get away from the world i'm just gonna have it like a good sunbathe um because it is rough but like luckily like i've got the two sports which makes it a little bit easier to be able to reframe and be like okay this is my goal um and also like because we're like two years out from the next paralympics i've been able to go actually like the last two years i've basically just had injury after injury back to back to back um and like now actually i've got plenty of time like if i don't compete in athletics for the rest of the season my next major championship in athletics isn't until next summer um so between like kind of for the next 12 months all i've got is the cycling world championships and so i can you know focus on that and also focus on just rebuilding my body so i'm really robust so that i go into the next paralympic games which again you know talking four-year cycles that's the the major goal um so i can get into that and be you know in the best shape of my life and not be fallen to pieces which is basically what i am at the moment i'm held together by tape this is the runner's world podcast Sport and MS i'm going to i'm going to flip this now because we talk because we've talked about the injury but the positives the positives of sport in your life um and uh firstly the sort of physical side i mean how you talked about how you've been a physio and you're you know recommending sport as part of treatment for people with different conditions how how much has sport helped you in the management of your condition and and you know like it's anecdotal but you know people who maybe have ms but don't exercise and how their condition behaves and you know you know i you've got to be an advocate for kind of like keeping moving right like that's got to be such an important part of it all yeah no obviously i'm like literally like guys decent sport it's a bizarre one because like when i like when i was diagnosed like i was studying at a time one of the first modules i came back onto was a my neural module which had ms as you know one of the conditions um and kind of not long before that so i was diagnosed like eight years ago um so not long before that kind of the recommendation was that you didn't do any sport like like physical activity was like a no-no um because it could like you know you're exerting yourself so you know creating that fatigue and it could stress you out which could create a relapse and so it's kind of like no don't do any physical activity um and then that's really flip turned um and it's like you know like get into physical activity it's really beneficial for you um physically so for me like i i was like my balance was so bad like before um well when i was diagnosed so i the first things i got back into was um i did like uh weight training um so like just to be able to like like with that proprioception things and like just strengthening the muscles so they were able to have better control like i was doing i got back into like back squatting pretty quickly um which like the fact that i could barely walk without falling over but i could backspot with it yeah um and then like yeah just doing like you know like sip like simple movements like a squat um and then we'd like you know like do dead lifts and then we moved on to like being able to do like lunges and split squats um all with like assistance in the beginning because honestly i was a hazard to myself um but then um i did pilates again hazards to myself like i spent a lot of time on the floor but i had a really good like yoga and pilates um instructors which like really help with the adaptations um and that really helped with like my balance and my proprioception um which allowed me to be able to get back into running because genuinely like i would literally take two steps and be on the floor um and without you know having done that like yoga and pilates and then that's for everything working like um doing like gym work um i would never have been able to you know get back in and then just like being able to do like cycling just allowed me to build like a tolerance to just being able to walk more you know like you know just having that like extra reserves in my body like when i i had i had training so like my reserve was higher than what it would have been if i you know when i was d trained um so i always say it's really beneficial but like so i i did my um my dissertation um on the effects of physical activity on children with cerebral palsy um because it's something i'm really passionate about um when i went to the paralympics and i kind of saw like the different disabilities like in this country we are really lucky with kind of the support we have like in in the um healthcare sector um which allows like you know children born with impairment to be able to have the best kind of shot and there's a lot of impairments we don't get because of kind of i guess like um not being like a third world country you know having like clean like you know water and you know all those little bits and pieces that um means they're unfortunate and that you know have all these other conditions we don't get um but that meant like you know going to the the paralympics the first time i literally i was like blown away by all these conditions i'd never seen before um but then what sport had given them back was just so amazing um like seeing how people could like you know move their body and like use their body and still be like really like happy and content and like mentally like really like happy but like physically doing stuff that i bet that their physios and their occupational therapists are like you're never going to be able to do that you know you know there was like one that yeah and parents told all your child's never gonna be able to do that but like then i'm like sat at the paralympics thinking wow like how on earth and honestly it just blew my mind and as a physio i was like okay this is what i want to do i want to be able to make that difference in a child's life and i think physical activity like sport like that can do that for a child so you know and then you take that into older life and or you're like me and you know you get diagnosed later in life and again it can be used like for me i was in such a low place and the only way i managed to get out of that hole was by having the goal of getting back to sport um and mentally it was just what got me through and like physically it gives you the happy hormones that everyone knows about happy hormones so you get that and then like just like just having a goal and being able to take those goals off like you guys know it's like you know when you know you you hit a target like you're buzzing like it's just those little things so i'm literally like guys get involved in any form of physical activity is fabulous that's great that's great to hear though can i ask you about technology because we often talk about it and people who Technology come on and i wonder about the role that maybe shoe technology plays in in paralympic sport as well you mentioned being injured with achilles problems are these new shoes that are in there are they helpful when it comes to managing injury or do they kind of exacerbate it um i think it depends on like you know uh what what shoes like you you work with like i've found um like different shoes work for me like different like with me with my achilles issues like you know um comfort and stability is a real key thing and you know technology is playing a massive role in that and um i work with uh lulu and evan who have brought out this new um blitzfield shoe which um was made for women based on women rather than immensely being turned into a women's shoe um and like they've really looked at like you know the athlete and the runner and how they can support and you know the stability around the shoe and kind of just allowing you to be able to run those mouths um and you know be as comfortable as possible and they feel like you're literally like running on a cloud and and they've been really helpful for me like you know just when i've needed to offload um my um my calf a little bit and you know just walking you know um a little around a little bit like they've been really like great like you know and being able to offload that little bit um but then you look at like the technology of like running spikes right now there's this kind of whole like new like um wave of um carbon like plates that are like really changing the game um and i can like you know attest to the fact that they are really changing the game i i've ran pbs all season's best last year that one massive which i didn't think i'd be able to do um and you see people just absolutely flying in this new season it is it is a real like it's a big thing now like for me it's bizarre because in cycling like technology like is it's it is the sport like you know like your bike and like your kit like it's a massive thing like i've had like carbon shoes like i got fully carbon shoes like molded carbon shoes um and we have like carbon bikes and cranks and the wheels like it's like that's the whole thing but like yeah it's only just coming in so everyone's getting excited like oh my god i'm like yeah come on yeah it's making such a difference like you'll see obviously like at the games last year you know uh world records were just like dropping um and hopefully you'll see the same this year because that technology is keeping to move on and you know it's more accessible to you know everyone to be able to get them and um different brands are now like bringing it in so i think it's just an exciting time for the sport of athletics definitely absolutely um go for it so obviously you mentioned Mental Health the blissfield that's where we were we met and we were catching up about how we both were obsessed with keeping our shoes clean but i guess that's probably not one that our listeners care about but um you say you spoke about kind of exercising for your mental health a lot of this event and how important it is for you to exercise for your mental health and is that something that's kind of you you kind of really that obviously is really important to you and i wonder if you could like chat a bit about it because i found it really inspiring when you spoke about it at the event yeah i know it is like i think for me like having like i say when when i was diagnosed i was in a really really dark place um and um since then i've really struggled with different parts of my mental health so i really openly speak about the fact that i've got an eating disorder um and it even though in some ways you know sport um is detrimental can be detrimental within an eating disorder actually for me just that routine um i'm still having like my sport to be able to do and like you know being able to like i remember like when i was diagnosed with ms and i wasn't able to run all i wanted to do was run and be in my happy place and like literally running is just like my happy face just like i feel free like you know you can just like run for i'm not gonna say hours or miles because i really don't do that but like i can run for like seconds like yeah i do reps it's fine but like you literally you can just like run and like you know i'm going fast and i'm literally just like you know you've got the wind in your hair like you know you're like sometimes you're beating people which is always good or you're like running with like your group and that's just like really satisfying to do that to be within that group and you know just training together like it's like great like dance and all i wanted to was to be back in that place um and i think that's made me really appreciate um what sport has given me just like having gone through that experience and not really taking it for granted anymore um and i think like now like so i was actually speaking to um my physio yesterday and i was like she was like i think we just need to give you something to do so you've got like routine and like you're like just a little bit like less anxious and a little bit like yeah just like happier just like able to like you know get on with like doing some training because like for me like i just i just love like you know being involved in sport and like i i'll just get miserable like you know i get like stressed out about stuff i'm really anxious about stuff i don't need to be anxious about like if i can't like do sport and i think for so many people it gives back so much and like i say with me like it was you know you have that goal and i think when you're really struggling with your mental health just having little goals and small wins um can really help you like you know have a focus and be on track and not be so like um overwhelmed by what's kind of going on um in your mental head space and again we speak about the happy hormones like you know you get so much back by doing exercise like when the endorphins and all the other good stuff is like released um and i think for me i just i find that as well as kind of being able to you know help yourself personally like you you find that sense of like community as well um and actually you could in in that community you can be helping and supporting someone else and that actually then is really beneficial to you because that makes you feel better about you and what you're you're doing so i think it's like yeah like it can be used in so many different ways um but for me like without my sport i'd kind of be so lost um and just not not be a happy wholesome kadena like i literally i've not done anything for like three days and i'm like itching guys i'm getting stressed out i'm like trying to like walk my dog like extra we're going for a nine hour walk come on she's literally the tiniest little dog she's like cat's eye she's a minute to death and what does it mean to be for you to Lily Lemon be a lily lemon ambassador what does the brand kind of mean to you i guess um i think one of the most important things to me about being a little ambassador is the fact that they're so inclusive um and they're like uh forward moving um and you know wanting to create change um the fact that they've got you know me on as um a disabled black female like that that for me is you know great and then like you know you'll see like so i'm i did a shoot with them and you know there was people out there so many of us that looked different um but was all there for one common goal of like we we like to run um and let me just support that like that they're just supporting you know like great athletes you know great people that are involved in sport like it doesn't matter who you are where you come from like they support that um and then like that they're just their technology in their shoes but then the technology in their clothing like if you wore their lime puns like oh my god they're literally the comfiest things ever like you feel like you've got a second skin on like you look great that was a massive thing to me i was like i just need to look great like i'm just here for like colors like i got a really boring jumper on today it's literally just burgundy like i'm normally like give me like bright colors like blocky colors um which lily lemon do so well um and i think yeah they're just a great brand to work with like really supportive like you know getting into like um different spaces like we all know what kind of where they started like they were more like yoga kind of like more like middle class and they're really like you know wanting to diversify and move into different spaces so you know working with me working with an athlete especially like the europe brand we haven't like there's not been so much within like the elite um sport kind of area and like yeah working with me um a disabled athlete as well is really a step in like a great direction and they've just taken on um two ambassadors in the u.s um one of them who is a fellow paralympian um and his partner who is um an up and coming long jumper um and it's just great to see you know that they're just so diverse and that's one of the things that i really love about them about that they're just so inclusive but then they have me looking great kaduna thank you thank you so much for making the time to to come on the one on our podcast and talk to us about um yeah all the things that are important to you and we wish you all the best um with cycling and running in the future amazing stuff and thank you again for your time i don't know thank you guys for having me on it's been great to chat to you enjoy those holidays yeah enjoy the holidays enjoy the sunday night i was literally booking holidays while on holiday so that brings us to the end of this week's roswell podcast a huge thanks to our guest kadena cox and to you of course for listening uh you can once again subscribe to three issues of run as well for just five pounds head to hearst magazines dot co dot uk run as well podcast to get this exclusive listener offer and you can listen to the run as well podcast on a cast itunes all your favorite podcast apps just search run as well uk and subscribe thanks again for listening and we'll see you next week