FOMO Bookclub: Unsheltered by Barbara Kingsolver Discussion + Revealing the NEW Bookclub Picks

okay I think we're going live okie dokie hello hello welcome back to another video my name is JMA hello hello and you are tuned in for fomo live we have Jack from spread here um and yeah we're GNA talk about unsheltered today um so B thick on the Kindle of dreams so we got people cat hi cat hi catone is doing well excited for the discussion I really enjoyed unsheltered your first Barber Kings that's exciting I would say cat you have much better to come I I'd say too actually I I think I really enjoyed unsheltered but I think I've only ever read poison with Bible and yeah that's up there me hello an hi an set in with some lemony black tea I thought I read that as Lemony Snicket just books on the brain Lemony Snicket tea I just saw Lemony Snicket in my head oh dear you're a tea person aren't you jack I am but I didn't have time to make tea so I've just got water in a teacup oh lovely Charlie's here hi Charlie oh Jane hello J oh and Cheryl's here as Weller um and I'm looking forward to hearing burner's thoughts actually burner wasn't I don't think burner liked the book but we're looking forward to hearing thoughts yeah we might be on a level then burner um and Jolene lovely Jolene hi Jolene hi everybody so nice to see everyone here it is nice to see everyone here I think May maybe we start by addressing the obvious yes um I don't even know where to start yeah so basically we're just we're so pleased everyone's come to join us and we've both been a little bit nervous actually about having this live discussion it's the first fomo live that we've had without our wonderful wonderful friend Alice who started this with us and we started on this journey with her and and yeah it's been difficult to try and initially it was difficult to think about what we would do going forward but when we started this book club the fomo book club we we were all just chatting one day and decided that we were chatting about books that we'd everyone else has read that we haven't read that we need to have read that we've missed out on and then we started just talking about maybe reading them together and then we just came up with the whole I don't even know how the idea of the book club came about when we started talking about it but it just became it was such a natural progression for us and it was such a big part of the three of us and our friendship so it was really important to us that we got together and figured out what to do and carry it on because it's it's difficult without her and the absence of Alice and I just miss her so much and this week's been quite quite difficult actually because thinking about this live but it's also a way of connecting and keeping that connection with her because it was so important to all of us so yeah and I think she'd just be so Furious if we didn't carry on with it she'd be like what are you doing why aren't you doing that um yeah so yeah I think as well like Alice put so much work into this she you know she was a massive part of making it work and we didn't want to see all of her hard work just disappear um so yeah Alice Alice um I popped into the Discord a couple of times I'm going to have to do is I'm going to have to put a little reminder in to pop into the Discord and check the Discord and start checking it because I know Alice ran a lot of she set it up she ran the discussions she was so good at that kind of thing like she yeah so I I kind of I'm G to try and make the effort to keep the Discord running as well because she set that up and she was so good at it and yeah I'm terrible at using Discord that's why I don't go on there very often but um but yeah I know it was a place a lot of people enjoyed talking about the books and she made it a nice space so yeah we're going to try and carry on with that um yeah and so one of the things we were we we found difficult so it's I think it's all these firsts isn't it when you do your first thing without someone and the first thing of something you always did together so we had we picked new books haven't we and it was the one of the things that the three of us absolutely adored was the day we get together and pick the fomo books so um the first year we did it it kind of just was kind of like oh let's get these lists together and and about up we all day yeah it was wonderful because we were like oh I want to do this and I was working and you were working and we were both like this is much more interesting than work done that and then um last year we were like oh let's get together and do it again and it was around this time it was in August last year that we did it we got together our list of of of books and we've been keeping everything in Google Docs which is great because it means we still have everything so it wasn't like going hunting for these documents so we've got Alice's list of books so yeah so that was lovely because we've got a whole list of the books that she wanted to Champion for fomo book club which I'm sure she would have added to Far More by now um so we were sitting thinking about what to do about it and we just about you know do we pick a couple off of Alice's list do we see what's jar mixing with her list and our list and actually in the end you you we decided that you and I both had one book that Alice absolutely loved and we still haven't read which was Cloud oh G announce it Cloud cookie here it is and here it is so basically is that our first book this is our first book this December book so yeah the November and December book so as you know we've still got um talk about unsheltered and we'll talk about the last book that's on this year's list that Alice picked with us um which was horror store so we' got horror store to go which um Alice Alice actually sent me this and this for Christmas so um so unsheltered was July August September October is horror store by gr Hendrick we talk about at the end as well just to remind everyone that we're going to be doing that and then we're going to launch into six new books so Cloud cooko land which is probably the biggest book we've done I think it will be the biggest today but it won't be the biggest to dat by this time next year okay so basically yes so we've got Cloud cul land um we' picked Cloud cul land in honor of Alice because it was one of her books that she absolutely loved over the last couple of years very excited about that we've got another Alice book coming up which we'll talk about so what we decided to do this year was we pick we picked two books that were favorites of Alice's that she would love people to read yeah so cloud culan is one of them and that's November and December and then the rest of the books we carried on with the sort of method that we had where we voted and and and we like got the list down and then ranked them and we even looked at Alice's votes to see if her votes from last year would swing any of it so I kind of think we've kept the same method and I think Alice is very much a big part of this list so yeah so that's the first book so we're going to announce the rest of the books as well so hope everyone can join us for next year we're going to do some announcement videos but we thought we would announce it on this live because we wanted to talk about our the future of the club and everything else today so yeah so that was the first book yeah I think so i' got some comments about Cloud cooku land as well actually yeah we have we've got a few comments actually um just lots of support um from everyone um so I appreciate that I can't read them out because I will cry yes we cry yeah so um I appreciate all the support and I have read them but I can't read them out um Alice would be so excited about Cloud cookie land I remember when I first bought this I was in the shop and um I had it was a choice between this and something else and I gave the choice to Charlie my youngest son and he wanted this one because it had a cloud on it and I immediately text Alice and I was like Charlie picked this because of the cloud and she was like he has excellent taste so I'm glad that we're finally getting to that I am as well because I bought it straight after Alice's like rave reviews on it I've got it on the Kindle because I'm getting to the point where I can't hold up big books anymore so I'm buying everything on the Kindle and um yeah so I've had it there since since since she championed it really so I'm really TI into it for sure Alice would be thrilled Jane have you read it did you already get get to that one um bur also added Cloud cookie lamp because of Alice's recommendation have you read it Berner did you read it wonder if she's read it yet forward to reading it yeah let us know if if anyone's read it if anyone has so yeah so that was our first pick and that was very much an ALICE inspired Choice yes and I think we've got a good range of books every year we've had a good range so that's kind of a very recent book which is historical isn't it is it also like a bit F should we say what it's about really I suppose in case anyone doesn't know book I don't know in case anyone does want to catch up on this what we can I think it's three timelines isn't it isn't it a past present and a future yeah and isn't there a like a library or a book there's like a it's like it's a it's a I remember the three timelines yeah found together by a single ancient text yes so we love a book A book within a book right yeah so in Constantinople um yeah yeah which also very Alice as well isn't it she have books about books and books within books and we she love that yeah for sure so um yeah so next book in January February a bit shorter we've G for a 20th century classic uh it's a reread for both of us but um you haven't read it since school right yeah no I was about 15 when I read it so we're going for Te Killa Mockingbird by har so I I Love To Kill a Mocking Bird so if anyone and i' surprised if there are people out there who haven't read it but if there are people who haven't read it and afraid to tell anybody they haven't read it you can with us yeah so I absolutely love te Killa Mockingbird it's uh one of my favorite sort of classic books I read it at school and the last time I read it was about 10 years ago and I listened to [ __ ] spaic reading it which is a brilliant audio book by the way yeah if anyone wants to listen to it on the audio book um but yeah tequilla mocking bird is January February um and and it's also such a reread book that I think you know even if you have read it people might want to join for a reread so good absolutely yeah I think it's one of those books that people can reread again and again right so and you get stuff out read it with us what's that come reread it with us yeah come and reread To Kill a Mockingbird with us um yes so To Kill a Mocking Bird um oh yes in March April we've kept gone with the theme of keeping to the sort of having a mid well we haven't got a middle grade this year but we have got like a ya would you say it's kind of upper end of middle grade or ya yeah yeah I think I read it when I was about 12 Okay so we've gone for a book I've never read and Gemma was absolutely shocked by horrified horrified horrified in fact it is a Aragon by Christopher palini so that's the uh March April pick and again it's quite a thick Book for a for a younger um it's the shortest of because it's the first of a quartet and actually there's five now what that was there a recent one was there a recent one yeah there's a new one yeah yes so Aragon by Christopher palini um fantasy as well which I'm very chuffed about I'm really pleased about that I've never read Aragon so looking forward to to that and that's March and and we've kind of like Gone Big Book smaller book slightly bigger book smaller book haven't we we tried to like yeah um oh yes so May and June I've only got this on the Kindle uh so I just hold up my iPad have you got the actual book B I haven't I've only got the Kindle version yes I feel like we've got a good mixture of books because yeah in May June it's another one it's not too too big and it's um Never Let Me Go casual ishiguro uh number the book that got a lot of votes on that New York Times bestseller list it did and I know that Alice has read that one as well Alice yeah Alice has read this one yeah so um and everyone loves this book I think it's his most popular book when people like on those on those lists of like like best books ever this one always comes higher than his other books and I loveed remains of the day and this is a very very very different book very dystopian this one isn't it yeah dystopian book um and yeah I'm I'm kind of I I don't want to know more about it than that that's all I know about it I've never watched the film and I don't know much about it beyond the fact that is this is dystopian book and um I don't want to know anymore because I just want to kind of let it unfold as I read it so Jane saying that never let me go was one of Alice's favorites yeah because I know she was working her way through Kaza Guru she read quite a few and I read the remains of the day with Alice yes last year and I think and I'm sure like so where there's one like this one neither you or I have read it but I think Alice would have reread it if we were reading it because we had that little tick list of like whether we ReRe but I'll reread it it's fine so yeah so that's going to be May June so so far we've had a historical a 20th century classic a ya fantasy and our sci-fi dystopian book so that's pretty good right just want to draw attention to this comment where St series referring to Aragon but I would just like to set the record straight here okay it wasn't me that put that book on the list it was Jack it was Jack I did vot for it but it was Jack who put on theist I put it on because he's been on my show for a while and everyone's always like I can't believe you haven't read that and I'm like I know I missed out it's perfect for fomo like is like literally what we talk about when we talk about these fomo books so yeah um but yes it is you're right an it is the start of a series apologies apologies yet another series I'm starting and probably will then be on my list of series I need to finish yeah uh lots of love for never let me go always wanted to read it great choice been wanting to read it bought it the other day it's like Cher it's meant to be um never read up excited to read it I've read Remains of the Day yeah same I loved amazing love that book yeah this is definitely like the Pinnacle of a fomo book right everybody wants to read it but hasn't ex exactly all right now then um let me go back to another big book because Never Let Me Go is not a long book is it no another big book for July August it's the summer it's the summer you might want a chunker for the [Music] summer find balance read him to mystery and this I didn't know it was a Canadian book until I watched Jolene and Lindy's canlet like books everyone voted for for wron mysteries of fine balance which has been on my shelf for far too long because Scott's always raving about it over on gun gun power fiction plot was always raving about it as one of yeah I think Sandy was raving about it last year as well yeah and may pick it up yeah yeah I've got to yeah so it's supposed to be Absol I don't know anyone who's like not read it and gone it's like just an amazing amazing book so yeah it's only 612 it's not that bad so it's not as big as um Cloud cul land for sure I'm sure Pages it's not that big this is quite small type though look it is it's a lot smaller type than CL this is where I would need my B focals this is 622 oh okay so they very similar very similar in size length Okay so fine balance so I'm really really looking forward to a fine balance um so in mid 1970s in India tells a story of four people's Liv come together apparently is it's a bit of a heartbreaker brutal is what I heard brutal so some brutal actually we've got quite a few brutal books Let's see there's nothing very light on here apart of maybe Aragon and I don't know how brutal that's going to be but you think because it's a younger Book for a bral brutal um okay now then last book and the last book is an ALICE book Alice book Alice book Alice Pi book um Alice didn't pick it we picked it was it on your list it was on my list yeah it was on your list and we saw we were looking at books on our list that we haven't read that are Alice favorites and this came up and I've read this book and I have it and I do love it but I haven't read it since I was about 20 um and I got my nice 70s copy of it as well so it's very short and it's Clockwork Orange by antie Burgess um um and this was one of Alice's favorite favorite books I sent her a bookmark A Clockwork Orange bookmark actually um yeah one of the first birthday Parcels I sent her and it had A Clockwork Orange a bookmark in it and um she love this and actually it's kind of that that type of book that Alice loves the dystopian she loved dystopian kind of um apocalyptic kind of dystopian books or whatever and this is well you know it is one of the like what do you call what you call it like a like Trend setting kind of ones I mean it was a band book here in the UK or it was the film that was Bann not the book um yeah and it is really um it's a classic it's a 20th century classic so if you've never read it it's very short but it's kind of very quite violent um and it's written in this kind of slang this futuristic slang that they speak in I can't remember what it's called the the way they speak um so for the first few pages you're like what am I reading and then it kind of clicks into your brain and you start to understand what they're saying so yeah Clockwork Orange so if you've never read it it's very short um and yeah it's um it's it's a controversial was a controversial film when it came out and I think it's still I don't know would you say it's a controversial book now I don't know so much but yeah but it was one of's favorites so I love so J saying Alice said this was her favorite book of all time and that's what she said to me as well but I think um it's one of those books that she didn't talk about so much on her channel so I feel that people are less aware of this as an ALICE book so we really wanted to sort of highlight it in fomo um because it is yeah and actually this is quite a good thing to point like it is a book that I knew was her favorite um and we had discussions about it me and Alice and we also kind of then off the back of that we talk about dystopian fiction or apocalyptic fiction and dystopian fiction and stuff but all of the sort of because Alice is so well known for her Agatha Christie her Sherlock championing all of those things but she read so widely and diversely that actually um in terms of genre that I think yeah it's quite nice to highlight some of her other favorites that she may not been so well known for um so yes I think this is a good choice definitely yeah yeah so those are our six lovely books for the future of fomo so yeah I'll just hold up these ones the other ones are on my Kindle but yes there we go so back I've only got two so I've got yeah so I've got all of those um and um I I'm really excited about this whole list absolutely thrilled by it so which is the whole point of when we started it wasn't it the three of us were like when we pick these books we can't just pick a book and go oh I quite like to read that it's got to be I'm desperate to read that book and we know and this is why we also loved it because we knew as soon as it went on the fomo list it would get R yeah I wanted to read it for years but I keep getting pushed back if it goes on the fomo book list we read it so yes very excited okay I mean Jack we'll be putting out um announcement videos with the list of books so um you don't have to like troll back this live to find the six books where there will be an announcement video on each of our channels at some point yeah I think I might try and go back to doing that thing I did in the beginning where I'm like why you should read this book ahead of it coming out I'm G to try and do that you did those yes the very first few I did that would why you should read did you make it in then why you should read this even if I haven't read it why you want to read it with us yeah I think I might go back to doing that actually if I can pull my finger out right oh I'm glad if Everyone likes it list yeah I'm glad you like it guys great L it did we did spend quite a long time debating the different books yeah we did we really did J Alice loved the language play yeah uh in the clock orange yeah I'm afraid to read a [ __ ] the movie was hard to watch yeah I think you have to be very aware of what is when you're going into it I I yes I don't know if I'd recommend it for everybody I it's probably one of the one reasons why Alice maybe didn't talk about it so much um as widely on her Channel because there certain books like that that I love that are quite dark and quite difficult reads but I you know you wouldn't recommend them for absolutely everybody as long as people are aware of what it is when they're going into it I think though um yeah sounds like going away from an interesting discussion I think so very dear okay I think probably we should move on to unsheltered yes let's move on to shelter I really want to talk about this book there is actually quite a lot to talk about when Jack and I discussed earlier how we were going to break up the sections for today just more ideas kept coming coming as we uh sort of talked about like actually there's a lot to talk about um but we're going to start with overall thoughts and then I have a plethora of questions um that Jack and I are going to discuss uh but please answer them in the comments um as we go through as well yes so Jack General overall thoughts overall thoughts um I really enjoyed reading it but I wouldn't say it was one of those books that I kept wanting to pick at certain points I wanted to pick it up like you know where you wanted to like it wasn't a book that kept me because do you know one thing I dislike about baring Soul just start is how long her chapters are her chapters are so long and I know it really silly but um I know when there are shorter chapters you just kind of just sometimes you you might read as much but because they're a Shor chap you kind of feel a bit more accomplished and when you when the reason one of the reasons why sometimes I didn't want to pick it up I picked it up and read it every day like I read a chapter a day like when I started reading it as how how I did it um maybe I missed out a couple of days but it's just the thought of I knew there were going to be like really long chapters because I had the audio book as well and sometimes the chapters of the audio book were two chapters of the audio book but it was still the same chapter of the actual book and so I think the way she kind of and she did that with the poison with Bible a little bit a little bit not so much because sometimes they were shorter chapters actually but this was just the chapters were so long but regardless for that I was find I found the book her writing is really engaging I really like her writing I find she writes characters brilliantly so you kind of um like I I I I've got a lot of thoughts about the characters and they felt like really well-rounded like in like people I think she does her writing is great so her writing is interesting the characters are interesting the pace I think the pace was probably the thing for me that that I'm a I like I'm kind of a plot driven reader in a lot of ways and I I like a bit of pace and there wasn't really Pace to this book and I think if you're not someone who um who if you're someone who doesn't like that then you're not going to get on with it um but I found the book interesting and I found it enjoyable and I found it really really thought-provoking and I like she has a lot to say about a lot of topics that are very very I mean the book I didn't know when it was written but obviously it was written post Trump and then I was like looked it up and it was 2017 or 2018 or something like that so um or it was published I should say and okay it's still so very relevant like we we're just living through all this again aren't we kind of what what was going on in the book um yeah so so I found I found it really fascinating but in terms of if I had to give it a rating um it would be a four star book for me it wouldn't be a five star so if I because I don't rate books but five star for me I mean I'm very stingy with five stars anyway but this is definitely a full style book I think it's a book that I think about for a long time after and that's why I think it's one of those books that on reflection when you think about it you realize how much it's made you think and engage so but you you what was your what were your thoughts of it J oh dear I didn't detest it I didn't detest it I like I say I find Barbara King H's writing style and her sort of cadence quite soothing and readable so I feel like I'm in safe hands when I'm reading her Pros um so I enjoyed that but I think you're right the pacing was off for me I found the flitting between the two timelines really jarring like like I was like no I just want to stay in the timeline that I'm in yeah I had that feeling actually have to say I think because the chapters were so long as well right so like you it would be like an hour and a half before you got back to back to where you were um so I don't think that worked particularly well we'll talk about that a bit more later but I did like the characters I just felt the plot there wasn't really that much plot it was almost the the the skeleton of a plot that there was was there so that King SAA could talk about her opinions on various topics like politics feminism that we'll talk about later yes but it made for a weak plot for me um and I think because I loved poison with Bible and demons so much I was expecting greatness so there was a level of expectation going in that I don't think she hit for me with this yeah I I can I can see that as well and when you think about it you're like in terms of plot like if you had to describe the book to someone you really I mean we should say as well there are going to be massive spoilers so if we haven't said that already and if you're really fancy reading un sheltered and you're watching this and you haven't read it or haven't finished it there will be massive spoilers having said that when we say there's going to be massive spoilers what really would have happened that like in terms of what happened it's not reveal like the big ending like oh there was a big it wasn't like it kind of was just a bit at the end right you know it was kind of in terms of like the events of what was going on and what happened and and um it was kind of like we dropped into these people's lives for a little while and then we dropped out of them in a way and there was um I like the fact that it kind of ended with Willer writing this book like wanting to like she's obsessed with her she's GNA write this book um kind of felt like did you feel like Willow was a bit like King Sola herself or like yes yeah so yeah so um but yeah so so overall yeah I I think I I didn't have a bad time reading it by any stretched imagination I didn't and I and I did enjoy it when I was reading it but it was like I kept waiting for stuff to happen yeah yeah right and I didn't want to dnf it at any point no exactly I just felt like I wanted it to get going yeah well actually because I felt like that I read having read the poison with Bible and Alice and I read that together and for like the first 200 Pages both Alice and I were going uh I don't know get it um not sure I'm really into this and then by like after that we were just hooked and we could not stop reading it and it was just brilliant absolutely brilliant so I kind of felt like unsheltered was going to be that that I was like when it was slow start I was like it's fine she got this it's fine some point be like I can't put this down but I was never like that never like I can't put it down but that doesn't mean I wasn't enjoying it or having a good time yeah yeah and said for first book I enjoyed her writing and look forward to reading more from her um like we said earlier I think you're in for a treat yes like if you liked this you are absolutely going to adore her other work yeah I've got to read demon Copperhead Jolene and I are gonna read demon Copperhead yeah you do you definitely do um Babs does like a long chapter yes hate long chapters um I like the book but didn't like it quite as I have have what heard other two as the other her other two I imagine she means her other two okay auto correct four me yeah well there's three for me so you know bur I found the book unimpressive aside from her writing the plot was M the characters felt whiny okay let six after well you gave it like one more than me because I gave it three stars so that would be like five no six out yeah same same same same same thing same uh love character driven books and King did a good job with her characters I do agree she does very good um preferred the modern day timeline and observation on middle class America I yeah did you have a preference for timeline then Jen um I think if I had to pick I would pick the modern timeline though I really liked Mary treat in the historical timeline I didn't really care for thater I liked yeah I liked I liked the I liked both timelines a lot um at certain points one was edging it over the other which is why when you were like the chapters are so long you're like no I want to go you gotta wait for another like massively long chapter before you get back to it yeah and I loved Mary treat I was surprised because when I when you read the back which I'm gonna have to do this because I haven't got my bi focals with me but basically will discovered the pioneering female scientist lived on the same street in the 1800s blah blah blah and when it said it was going to be a dual timeline I thought the other perspective was going to be the female scientist so I was really surprised when we got this perspective of the man living well he's obviously he's living in her house which we then get to know that's why it's his perspective I suppose but I was just so I was really expecting it to be the female scientist perspective in the Victor the other timeline but um disappointed disappointed um agree with you about plot Gemma another agree um characters kept you going yet had the opposite problem I didn't care for demon Copperhead Chris well everybody does and this is why I've been like worried about reading it because I thought you know I offend people when I said I didn't like it but we'll see but it is a very now if you think about the timeline of when the book is written because in the book in the modern day timeline they're talking about an election she never says Trump in the book she just talks about the candidate right and then the books published in 2018 he was elected in 2016 when was he elected 2016 I feel like he was elected because that was the year of brexit and like must the year that David Bowie died and then brexit happened and Trump I'm not saying these are all connected I'm just saying yeah happened so Biden came in in 20 so Trump would have come in in 16 Yeah Yeah so basically she must have like this this book she's writing this book then right so she's writing this she's like obviously this is all going on and she's like I've got so much to say about this and this I think is like her like it's her at that time going I've got loads to say about this and about the state of America and like my big metaphor of this decaying falling down house and America and capitalism and you know it's like that's that's what this is it's like this commentary isn't it that she's done at the that time and we're back at that time now aren't we do you feel like you're getting like deja vu oh my goodness it's like um you know goldfish have a 3 second memory did you know that yes yeah so it's like a run and joke in my family whenever someone like forgets something you say that's a nice Castle that's a nice castle that's what the Trump thing feels like right like oh that's a nice Castle oh forgot that that castle B out that's a nice Castle yeah just like crazy it's like every time you turn on episode of East Enders I've watched it for 20 years it's the same people having shouting matches but yes um but yeah but is it's kind of it's like it's her kind of like social cometary which I found I had to say really fascinating and all of like the kind of the the motifs she's using to discuss it the themes the the sort of this kind of feeling of this woman in modern times like Willer everything like she's getting anxiety and depression because everything she's like trying to hold her family together trying to keep things going and like you know there's just all this systemic stuff going on as well as their personal problems and actually their personal problems are B because of this systemic stuff like the health care his tenure like the university closing um um I found yeah when you really start to pick it apart and start thinking about it like the book was really thought-provoking for me which is the whole point of it I suppos but yeah I actually think it's quite a good book club pick because there's a lot to talk about um so ver said if it wasn't for the book club she would have dnfed it you could always dnf Book Club books wait and then that's fair um Emily maybe I don't think it would be Emily book actually I don't know if Emily I um this was my first king silver I have the poison poison Bible it's so good it is so good starts off like for me I was like I don't know if I'm into this story or into this theme just get so good so good brilliant book that's a five star book and I'm very stingy with five stars so yeah um loved the poison of Bible we'll eventually get to other Barber King s BS yeah I several um think it's more about characters and observations on life in mid Middle America I was in really interested in the various ideas yes we're gonna get those for sure yeah um I found the past timeline more interesting interesting interesting interesting um I enjoyed both timelines too I think I enjoyed the Mary treat timeline a bit more and enjoyed the relationship between Mary and that uhud I on that um I did prefer demon though because of demon but you know I I I I can concede to uh to Poisonwood Bible okay so what did the duel timeline add I'm not sure I I think there were both really interesting stories but I can't I've been trying to think about this since she said these questions today and I just don't I mean I there's there's there's a kind of um I feel like because Mar Mary treats a real person and and obviously King solver's got obsessed with her and G down this little rabbit hole and got obsessed with her the way that then Willer gets obsessed with her and like when she was writing about how will gets obsessed with I was like well clearly this is what happened with you getting obsessed with her you know um and it was interesting I think the idea of this Utopia that this whole town was set up as this utopian Vision after like the Civil War like is it the Civil War that's just happened and the so like this guy set this place up it's supposed to be like the future of living and it's going to be a Utopia and we're going to have have these talks it's going to be it was kind of like a social experiment at a time of upheave in in these I keep saying Victorian they're not victorians because they're not English you know you know that period of time so um what I say 19th let's say 19th century so this's 19th century post Civil War I think it's post Civil War is the war still going on I'm not sure and there's all this social upheaval there's the Civil War and um emancipation of the slaves in America going on there's this massive big social change happening and then there's Darwinism and I think that was all really fasc because it's like we're going through a time of upheaval and a time of uncertainty and like there's this whole you know the comparable massive shifts in soci society for us are the internet and Ai and all of those things and the way that politics is impacted by all that and they're going through this massive cultural shift and social shift and then this guy is trying to set up this Utopia this utopian ideal but under benath it all it's just this flawed and um in like unfair Society because he's building off the back of these immigrants that he's promising all this Utopia to and they're coming to and and then there's kind of you know so I felt like you could see why we've got this mirroring about it but I just still I'm still I don't know I can see why they're connected but I'm still unsure as to why we have to they're not like why there couldn't just be a book on their own like why each one could be I think willer's timeline is more dependent on their Retreats but flashbacks like two page flashbacks yeah like you say I think she tried to show that in a lot of ways American society hasn't actually evolved much from where it was because there are parallels to all of those things now yeah and the impact of those things that are still being felt now right yeah yeah yeah so I kind of get where she was coming from from that angle but it just felt like two completely different unrelated stories there were I mean obviously there was some some ties like oh this this might have been Mary treat's house but actually it wasn't Mary treat's house so why do we care um like it just yeah I think like say there could have been two completely separate books or almost hold like back to back like two very long short short stories like yeah this is it and it's like so I can you can see why she's got it she's kind of G done something structurally narratively quite interesting in a way um and and also like she's trying like for me the purpose of the past timeline was this whole look where we were and look where we are and look where we still are and you know for me that was kind of what I felt from it um and this whole idea was really strong about when when people are going through a period of social change that they will cling to anyone who promises them that they will not have to go through that change and I can turn things back to the way they were so the whole you know Maga idea and everything else and like and like we can we can go back to this like rose tinted view of the past and people who are afraid of change whose lives are being you know CH like Nick we're going to talk about Nick aren't we because that was a really interesting character um and I think I can't remember actually I think I've got the uh the quote but I think at one point like is it Mary treat says about like how why PE because he's like trying to figure out thatch is trying to figure out why they won't why they're railing against Darwinism so much I mean that was a huge thing obviously Evolution theory of evolution and going well we but but we're human we're Superior we are not animals and like that whole I mean it's still being debated in a lot of places in America isn't it like Evolution and stuff so um but yeah so but she was like oh it's when you when people have think that things are going to be taken away from them that their rights and their privileges as humans Darwinism is taking that away they're they're equating us with the animals and we were up here and now you want us to be here and it's kind of she's like she's saying so this man like the people who are fighting against Darwinism are promising you no that's not right you are still up here um or you should be um so yeah again really interesting topic area and I really enjoyed that section and the discussion around Darwinism I thought it was really interesting oh yeah however like why was it relevant is it is it I suppose yeah I found the quote here that because I did highlight some things on I ended up getting the Kindle version as well actually I already had the Kindle version um I think um when men fear the loss of what they know they'll follow any Tyrant who promises to restore the old order which is so true right obviously um that's what Mary treat says to Thatcher um I think it all ties into the main themes right the themes of politics and whatever the problem is it doesn't make for a cohesive story like it's just all these little bits of ideas that sort of yeah are are vaguely linked but not enough for a plot I feel like it was kind of there to see I think King sua was obviously like really fascinated by this person Mary treat yeah she was also fascinated by what was going on with the country and with with the Trump election when she was writing this book and she's made this link between them and I can see it in a way that she's trying to say like you know these things have happen this this is what happens this has happened before history repeating itself but yeah I felt possibly fairly tenuous you know yeah um in fascinating but yeah yeah uh cat said I think the Dual timeline was the connection of the house also both Thatcher and Willer are trying to deal with societal issues that were daunting in their era yeah oh talking about the house in the end like the blood like it wasn't even the same same house because we didn't know what happened with Thatcher but thatcher at the end when she got the guy around and he scraped the bricks and the bricks were the family that his mother-in-law then married into and he says oh you know this house is much later so clearly they knocked down Thatcher's house and built a new one rebuilt it yeah because it was falling apart wasn't it it wasn't even the same house in the end is what I took from that I don't know if I'm wrong or I got that wrong but yeah it was rebuilt it was rebuilt um so but obviously that had left by them right so it's rebuilt by Yeah by the mother-in-law and yeah um burner the house is falling again as both characters are going through hardness in society yeah yeah and political uh policies influence their issues yes the fact that the house didn't survive but was rebuilt here we go there was only a small part of the property that actually belonged next door yes the original Speck house or whatever wasn't it yeah it's how Society goes through change this is such an an book like yeah got a lot of political stuff in here so I think an this is definitely an social political stuff yes I also think that Willer was banking on the house being connected to treat for the monetary gain yet um it didn't work out but then Willer could now write about Mary now that that actually that kind of gives it a bit more of a satisfying ending doesn't it that she realizes well I hope she had a connection but she didn't but actually she's really fascinating so I'm going to write this book and that maybe get us out of our not in not just get out of our financial issue because it may well not but it will at least get Willer out of her depression you know so I felt it was a more realistic ending as well I feel like had it been Mary's house and like all of willer's wishes came true and that would have been too sickly sweet ending to me so so yeah uh have her own yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh the US was built on religious freedoms so Darwinism is against everything the pilgrims travel to the world yeah I always find that like yeah blows my mind a bit the whole it does yeah like the idea that two concepts can't exist I don't know yeah um I sometimes felt like I was reading conceptual essays uh instead of a cohesive story yeah I would agree yeah I felt like when Willer found out that it wasn't the original house that had been rebuilt it was to let go I like that they could now rebuild their lives oh that's I like that too good thought cat thank you for sharing that I think that is a good one for sure for sure I'm gonna move on to the next question because we well we've covered this a little bit but I'm aware that we I think we could waffle about this until night we try not to because actually it's just going to straight through because really like it's like I was listening to something today and they were talking about politics and people oh I don't get involved in politics like if you are interested in the potholes in your road being filled in then you are talking about politics so like everything is about politics and in this book everything was political um absolutely everything so yeah it just ran throughout all of it didn't it and um yeah so I suppose what did you think in terms of the modern timeline the the political yeah yeah I mean I think it was it was quite obvious actually to be honest when you told me earlier that Trump wasn't mentioned I didn't know that I had obviously inferred that it and then in my mind that's who it was so I hadn't even picked up on the fact that he hadn't been yeah just saying him you know him and uh what have you and I can't believe he's said this um the candidate whatever yeah so I think that was good though because it it doesn't date the book then it doesn't you know it kind the book's dated in terms of what's going on in the book I suppose but you know um yeah but there was reference to Obama as well wasn't there it was Obamacare yeah so Med Medicare is it Medicare Medicare that's is that their free do they is that their social yeah it sounded like me tested means tested medical support I think wasn't it interesting because actually that was kind of Nick The Grand so if you think about all of them in terms of their political stance and that what I found fascinating is how the characters were all representative of different political ideologies and the intergenerational differences the generational differences in politics was fascinating and so you've got like you've got Nick who is an immigrant who escaped Civil War in Greece was it civil war or like no the Turkish Invasion I can't even what it was where he's escap what part where he escaped from was it Greece yeah yeah escaped from were like Cyprus remember because we had a lot of cypriate um refugees here in the 70s in the UK Greek cypriot refugees but I couldn't remember where but yeah so he um was he I can't even remember what he'd come over from from Greece and he' escaped something and he' loved America like a lot of people who who've who've gone there and they've kind you know he came at a time when he could get a good job and he could buy his own house and he could do all of those things and it's kind of this Rose to interview the older Generations who you know go oh the countryes are amazing and it's like yeah when you you know there more opportunities when you were younger for these kind It's Kind like the UK can't really talk about America so much but in the UK people who don't understand how difficult it is to be a young person in in the world and to get a good job and to be able to afford to even rent a place let alone to you'll never be able to afford to buy a place you know so the generational diff the misunderstanding about about how opportunities have changed and the generational differences and viewpoints were just so fascinating within that um I love TIG like tig's tig's like view on everything and she's like her like this way of her her bartering and um like not wasting anything and when she was talking the Eco Warrior yeah making the baby food and she's gone to Cuba where one of the best Health Care Systems free Health Care Systems in the world is in Cuba right and it and she's got this kind of she come back with an actual knowledge of the place rather than the propaganda of like it's a communist country and everyone's starving and poor it's like well no actually there are lots of things about it that work granted there may be a lot of things that just do not and they still got the Embargo and stuff like that they've got a lot of difficulties but this whole make do and mend idea and this kind of like we're going to We Can't rely on these things and these throwaway things and I thought she was fascinating um she was obviously very like passionate about it all though as well because she caused like quite a lot of like um her and her brother I didn't like the brother I have to say I didn't like Zeke and I don't know if I was meant to like him or not but just stick with for a sec cuz I think what was one of the things that was really interesting was obviously she's very anti- capitalist um and yet she sorry Interruption um and yet she had the best relationship with Nick she did I love her completely opposing political views but they were like the two I just loved their like relationship you know why and this is what I thought was great about it cuz I was talking about this because we've moved to um somewhere where poit we don't talk politics locally where we've moved to because politically we have quite different viewpoints from a lot of the people that live locally to us as you can imagine but we can still have discussions with them without shouting at each other and actually that's where all of this kind of modern idea of like not having a discussion but just not like thinking you can't have a discussion or you can't have things in common or you can't get along and I think TIG and her grand grandf father like that kind of embodied this way of going no actually let's just I'm entitled to mine yes yes um yeah I I found that really fascinating she was wonderful with him um because he was she was the only one that he would let do certain things for and where Willer would just constantly just be frustrated and upset and couldn't listen to him she was TIG had far more patience with him which was interesting um though I just don't know if that would be true I just found that like as well was like would she have that much patience with him if she's like really having a go at her brother who while her brother is in finance he's trying to do Finance in a you know um uh responsible kind of way like you know he's working within the capitalist system in as as in as responsible a way as possible I don't know I just I think though she saw her correct me if you think I'm wrong but I think she saw her granddad as a product of his time he was he was the way he was because of the way he grew up and the politics that was about when he was a young man I think she didn't have that patience with her brother because she had grown up in the same world well also the brother was abusive to her really as well wasn't he because in the end well this is it because Willer in the end suddenly because the other thing I think it's probably why because having grown up in a house with multiple siblings there's always someone who's out of favor or but there's also one who's always The Golden Child right and Zeke is The Golden Child I think that's probably what put my back up about him like because I am I am not that in my and so like Willer kind of saw him with this this because we saw him from her yeah and he saw and he's so good and he's so this and he's so pleasing he's he's the easy child to get along with whereas TIG was the from the start she talks about how difficult TIG was in their relationship is but then she starts to see she starts her eyes start to open about how he has just made tig's life an absolute misery and because he's The Golden Child how awful that must have been for her growing up like having this elder sibling who everyone loves and adores and who your mom clearly worships you know and then but who tells you that you're like he call her names he'd be abusive to her and stuff and tell her she was useless and and all these kind of things so yeah I really didn't like him yeah what I mean like just he had no sense of responsibility and it makes you wonder like is that willer's fault I don't know it made me wonder that it's like have you mollycoddled this child so much that he thinks that he can do whatever he wants including dumping his child yeah with their grandmother and like fly off and do whatever you were doing before like yeah I did I found that bit was I did wonder to is that grief like is that because he you know was that the grief that he couldn't deal with his child or was that the fact I didn't I just couldn't like what that was about like in in the in the beginning maybe but then when he was swanning off doing all his he was quite quite happy to just CU he when will said I just need a permission so that when we go to Med and he's like right I'm going to signed over custody to you yeah what you know but then at that point Willer should have been like absolutely not come pick your child up and like be a proper parent do you know what I mean I feel like she she you're right yeah yeah I think you're right so we've got loads of comments loads of comments yeah because it's so much to talk about with these this family I think it was really interesting there is so politics weighed heavily in both timelines for sure um Babs is a very political writer very smart woman isn't she very smart woman yeah I've got I've actually got a lot of time for her obviously I saw her talk um live at the women's prize live when demon Copperhead won and she's just she's really cool she read the audio book she read it yeah because I listened to some of the audio I've read most of it on my Kindle but I listen to some of it and she surprised that she read it she was okay but like you know a good audio really but I think because I've heard her speak like I had like this I could imagine her literally standing there reading it to me do you know what I mean so anyway the grand was a fascinating character for me yes and also like that generation just feeling like there no one's listening to us no one's listening to me they start to like as you get older you become start to become feel more and more irrelevant like and I think that's that's why that anger kicks in and actually no I relevant and I have got things to say and I you know and I think TIG respected that about him in a way like yeah it was fascinating character agree uh lots of love for TIG TIG love from cat TIG love from burner TIG love from charie um chick and her granddad's relationship was heartwarming for me yeah I I think so too TIG and Nick were great characters yet their relationship is very interesting TIG had ideals yeah because she's looking for she's like you basically you're all harping on about things as if that this is the way forward we have no more resources like she's literally like isn't it her that says when they're talking about the whole theme of shelter and unsheltered isn't she the one she's like you'll be standing in the light that's what you need to you need to in like you know be in the light like you like that's that's what it will be and yeah I just yeah she was great yeah for sure um I like that both TIG and thata stood up for what they believed in which is important their belief spent Against the Grain yeah though I do find that I likes TIG better than Thatcher I I agreee that there's parallels to draw there but thata just annoyed me a bit did he what what annoyed you about thater I don't quite know I don't know it was like his wife me like oh his wife was terrible but his wife was a product of her times as well but she was like you know she was whole like trying to be this person to like fit in with her social requirements yeah and basically it's a thing of the time right yeah people people married people they didn't have a clue about and then they get he basically married this woman because she's beautiful and because socially she's she would be far above where he would normally get married so he's Lo he feels he's locked out right she's married this like and then he gets to know her and realizes actually when he sees Mary treating what she's like he's like I have nothing in common with this woman but that's probably majority of it wasn't it majority of marriages but he the fact that he's this kind of like I don't know scientist and um and he also starts to see the hold in this Society they're living in through kth and and people yeah yeah I don't know I just felt like he was a weak man I I think he's strengthened towards the end but I just like if you compare him to Mary or TIG then he just is a bit of a wet lettuce in comparison like come on man get it together um did I read that one yes Zeke was annoying for so many reasons tons of reasons I think he was written to be disliked yeah yeah so I think the fact that Zig did not care about his child made TIG most furious maybe yeah though actually in the end that turned out to be a blessing for her right completely she's like that's when like she Willer sees her with him and she's like she's a parent like she know she sees it because initially she's like You' have no idea you think you want this baby you don't know you've no idea but then she starts to realize now TIG TIG does know what she's taking on she's not she's not being that naive she's not stupid um I think CH and Willow were actually really similar so that's why they clashed oh I didn't think that mother daughter thing I thought Willer was more like Zeke yeah that's what I thought I thought that because I think that I didn't think she could get she they didn't get each other she didn't get her daughter where she got Zeke because Zeke's kind of done the thing which actually that was a big theme for for Willer wasn't it we've done everything we needed to do like because TIG was like you mve me around constantly but we were looking for tenure we were looking for security and we got it and it's like yeah you got it and then it just just all collapsed on underneath you right so Willow kept saying we did everything we needed to do we did everything we should have done to be in a better position than we are now so she's kind of followed this path of career and stuff which is what Zeke's doing and tig's doing the opposite so I why I think clashed because they couldn't understand each other yeah they could understand each other yeah um I I loved in the end that TIG was the better parent for I agree I thought that was a really nice ending for TIG actually yeah like and obviously she got with the boy next door and I just thought it was that was uh how cool that you got the opportunity to hear her speak it was very cool um his name for me what Dusty oh oh hi [Laughter] Ros this is usefully usefully identified me this is a king Sol I don't have to read some of her books I love but some yeah this is very much yeah yeah which other ones if you read r that you found disappointing just GMA wants to put them on her list I've got the Lacuna over there which is massive by the way yeah they all are they Luna is Miles gra a copy of it where is it it is mild bigger than that than than unsheltered I'm sure it's like twice as wide as this Luna won the women's prize before didn't it did It win or was it just nominated I can't remember but I've Got The Bean Trees as well by her I think that had a harder time sticking up for himself because of his time period he was more submissive in the beginning but I think Mary gave him courage kice helped him too yeah no I agree with that I think he had a character Arc um I just I liked his ending as well I like their happy their kind of happy ending that this I don't know I just think you know there's some characters where like if they were real humans you just wouldn't wouldn't like them there's nothing wrong with him I just he he's just not my kind of person like I didn't find him offensive I just offensive you know mean like as I just didn't find him I didn't feel strongly about him either way to be honest with you I just found I found the yeah Merry treat I was but I was disappointed that I wasn't Mary's perspective that's what I like I just I wouldn't want to go for a beer with him do you know what I mean I think he'd just be really boring i' go for a beer with Mary well you couldn't go for a beer with him down in in no alcohol no alcohol indeed r got slide off oh no now I won't find out which Barbara King books to avoid um yes TIG and George's relationship was refreshing yeah oh it's not George is it it's a thank you loved Luna hated noted lunc about this [Music] forina Behavior was irritating okay I think she laugh going for a beer with Thatcher oh can you imagine though like it' be lot lots of silences and like so how's the weather Darwin e great we about him last time okay um okay so this I thought was quite interesting how did feminism compare across the two timelines because I think we had obviously TIG that we've just been talking about a lot I think she represented quite a lot of feminist ideals in the modern timeline but I think Mary treat was a feminist for her timeline but they were obviously very different people and I think it was interesting to look at how feminism has evolved from Mary treat through to TIG um and I thought that was actually really well done one of the three lines that I enjoyed more definitely yeah and also this idea about um I think in the modern timeline talking about that like what some of the debates they were having if I remember it correctly that TIG was having was around this idea of of um women and the Free Labor of women propping up which is a Marxist feminist ideal actually because I I like a bit of marxist feminism um that the like capitalism is built off of the backs of women doing a lot of free work oh for sure so basically TIG was going on about about that um and about the child you know so that kind of thing but then the the whole Mary treat and her lack of recognition of her as a scientist and the work she was doing um alongside all these much more famous male contemporaries and the fact that she had a husband um didn't her husband like run off with another woman go practice free love or whatever it was called I think so yeah but she was like great now I can do science you brilliant I my exactly it's the only thing that allowed her to to do that really wasn't it so yeah I think um yeah it was interesting I kind of like I said I was really sad we weren't getting Mary treat's perspective I don't know why um King Sola chose to show us things through thatchers I just still don't get that why because he was in the same house I and I get that because but it's also like you know it's all fiction like she could have put her in in Mary treat's house couldn't she or whatever but I just don't I don't know why that was a narrative choice because I think Mary treat's story is is fascinating yes um and in terms of like the women as well within the book you know when like the girls that he's teaching in high school and stuff like the idea of the education of women was like a big thing in that past timeline yeah and he's comparing his sister-in-law to his wife as well and their views on women and what women should be doing and when his sister-in-law has to put on a coret and stuff for the first time and and all of that I think um yeah I think it was it was interesting I think comparing the two different things but again I don't know how comparable they are um in terms of what they were talking about because TIG is clearly educated though she decided not to P like like they were banging about her going back and finishing her degree but C you know and willer's very educated so in terms of like the focus of the feminism within each timeline I think was different I don't think it was like saying oh we're still in the same position um yeah no absolutely not you know whereas politically like we're probably still in a similar position but yeah Fe femin like feminist stuff I don't know if you could compare really I don't know because there were different things um they were but like I said I think there were similarities between them they were both as you say educated women and they were both pushing against the grain so with Mary being like Darwinism but T pushing against capitalism they're both pushing against these very embedded popular ideal patriarchal very patriarch IDE and they're both trying to push against that tide and really feeling like they're getting nowhere right so I think there were some similarities obviously very different topic areas but but yeah I think like imagine if those two had a beer that' be cool I think that would be cool I would like I'd join them I would join them I would like to join them yeah women as well and actually that was the other thing the girls in Thatcher's class being taught and they were like is this a suitable topic for young ladies and what have you and all that kept coming up didn't it and um and then one of his like students leave school and the other doesn't he marry the little Maid um Mary treats maid housemid s yeah yeah oh but it was interesting how like the boys didn't get as educated because they had to go and work yeah um I thought that was I hadn't really thought about that before it makes sense but yeah it was a interesting Kelly's here hello Kelly hi Kelly I would really like to know more about Mary I had never heard of her learning about her was one of the good things and interestingly because I was chat chatting with them I think TR me joling about Naomi kleene and doppelganger and she cites Naomi Klein in the back of this book is one of her books being a big influence was it Nai Klein or was it naami wolf Nai Klein because wolf is the uh is the beauty myth you're gonna that thing Naomi wolf wrote The Beauty myth yeah in the 90s and Naomi kleene is the one who wrote doppelganger who keeps getting mistaken for Naomi wolf yeah but what else what else is Klein WR so she says here um three Illuminating books guided my hand as I wrote this changes everything by Naomi kleene H because no Klein is kind of like she does examine capitalism like andk and stuff like that like if you read you read doppelganger haven't you yeah yeah and she talks about um her other books about branding and blah blah blah so I think a lot of chat about Mark um capitalism didn't she interesting which I I felt like straight I was like oh I'd like to go and read that actually because a lot of the things that Barbara King Sol is talking about in this book are things that I absolutely fascinated by right so then it's like maybe I want to go and read a non-fiction book about it rather than reading but not that rather than reading because it's actually been really a really interesting read for me but um but yeah yeah kind of out more about them uh I loved how Mary couldn't be recognized by Society but she was well respected by the men in her field of scientific research yeah yeah that that is pretty cool imagine like she's got as far as she got with like no formal training in any of it she's just you know and the fact that she got people like Darwin to listen to her and like yeah what an incredible woman uh have to head out uh but love being with you today uh so glad I got the rer oh yeah yeah jene thought it was last Sunday so she I was looking everywhere for it I couldn't find it did oh dear H the free labor was uh falling to Willer and Tig in the it does it still does as we know like we still know that even in I mean this is why the whole idea of women having it all is just like this big myth everybody's been sold so that you can still go to work full-time and do all this stuff go you you can go to work but you still also need St the stuff but you can have it all you can have it all you lucky thing you lucky your mom couldn't go to work full time she you know it just so happens that you need two wages now you couldn't survive on one oh don't get me tired we could go off on a whole tangent oh yes let's both get we'll need a whole another live show um I think that realizes that he has the capability to speak up and doesn't but Mary situation gives him the courage to finally do it yeah it also made him realize the importance of educating his female students he showed interest yes yeah I did like it when they were like preparing for his like presentation or whatever it was where he would had to talk about Darwinism without like mentioning was it I did enjoy what did you have to call it the theory of descent modification through descent something like that yeah I love that the way he had to like trick it round like to say well you've just agreed with Darwinism I I really enjoyed that section actually oh I found the the the his principal and Landis were just the most horrific people ever um I nothing about Mary but would like to know more yeah she was cool love that Mary went into the field and investigate the natural world she wasn't afraid of getting her hands dirty my favorite scene is when she's the Venus Fly oh yeah a finger in it was that the first time thatcha met her I think it was she call she has to call him in because the dogs are in the house yeah oh yeah that's right and she can't move because she's yeah feeding her finger to a yeah so she was like Ed but didn't quite yeah was nibbling on her finger I did think that as like a first introduction to Mary I thought that was so good and like the like the description of all the spiders in like the jab jars and what all around the front room and I could really picture that I loved that as an as an intro yeah she was fascinating there are still schools is not taught in the US like what yeah I think you're right I think in some states no yes you not allowed to teach a theory evolution in certain states in the US I'm sure this is true I'm sure this is true I have goog my mind like I feel like yeah I'm not sure which ones it it's like B A Bible Belt one I'm not sure which Pat is agreeing which is scary stuff that is insane like yeah this is what happens when you see this is because I don't think of the UK as what it's quite we're quite a secular society here in the UK right so I never think of it that way but we are um religion and politics try not to mix and then also relig then then youve got religious schools but you can also like there is a national curriculum that is not based on religion so everyone everyone has to adhere to I unless you're a private school or an independent school this is why they they have problems with those but let's not go into that I'm just going to get on my about that oh let's not get into it yeah that is that actually blows my mind a little bit I have to say um right let's go for this uh why was the book called unsheltered uh the whole theme of shelter and unsheltered R throughout the whole thing right this whole whole idea of um shelter and a home and and having shelter and and being sheltered and Sh being sheltered in the terms of of un not knowing stuff as well I think in terms of like the education of women in the in the earlier books and then also like they both talk about in in both timelines they talk about this idea of seeing sky and being brought out into the light so I think it just ran throughout the whole thing and I think it was quite a good title for it actually yeah yeah it's quite like you said I think you can talk about Sheltering or un Sheltering of each character they have you could assign that to each of them in different ways right and even when we talked about Zeke earlier and the fact that Willer Molly coddled him we could say that he was overly sheltered yeah yeah exactly and I think it's like this C whole idea of um um like literal and metaphorical Sheltering and un Sheltering the whole book um which which just kept cropping up didn't it yeah so yeah use the word shelter and unsheltered quite a lot didn't she in the in the actual narrative yeah it was a big Motif all the way through and actually um and I kind of like this whole idea of being sheltered or being having your eyes open to the truth or to what's going on around you like I thought was just really interesting and actually Willa goes through that whole process herself doesn't she of like not seeing her daughter or not or or kind like she goes through this act of depression and kind of grief for this life that she'd imagined she would have had by now and then yeah kind of you know so like and then her eyes being open to what her daughter's saying is true we can't rely on Old systems and old ways of doing things anymore we have to just accept these are the things that are going on and yeah I felt like yeah it was interesting yeah um Jane saying how fragile our security or our idea of security is what or who can we actually I think that's good point if we take shelter as like the physical shelter of a home right what actually is home because it isn't really the bricks and water is it it's the people it's the people that you live with yeah um it's the people that you surround yourself with that's really your shelter at the end of the today yeah um how sheltered you are seems to be seems to make a difference in your beliefs and expectations completely completely yeah yeah Jane I think that idea of SEC because she was so fragile wasn't it like basically Will's whole plan for her future just came apart with like him losing his like the college closing him losing his job and like we should be here yeah I think was a good theme I do okay I am probably just going to do one more yeah because we talked about quite a few of the questions haven't we really we have okay let's let's do this one um was nature an important theme and why I'm trying to think if it was in the modern time line it was obviously definitely a huge theme in the in the um 19 centur want I keep W to say Victorian timeline in the 19th century timeline yeah um and I think really in the 19th century timeline it was all linked to and actually the way the natural world has declined in the modern timeline when you think about it because we're even giv this idea of the pine Barons and the way that they were kind of encroached upon by humans and you know the the mining and everything else that went on there there and then you come later on you see Willer visits the same part that Mary treat used to go to I think and it's way it's changed over the century and whatever since Mary treat was there and what humans have done to it and what what we're now reaping as a as a result of all of this in the you know climate change and and everything else that was so it play actually did play a huge part in the modern timeline I was sitting there thinking maybe it did but it did more of our impact on on nature I think yeah and I think it was mentioned in the modern timeline when they were researching Mary treat that there are like no new species now to discover like Mary treat was discovering new species of plant and you know that there there's no more of that that's done um and actually we're now watching species disappear um so yeah it's quite sad in a lot of ways and like say TIG was quite Eco Warrior about these things about the fact that like we we can't continue to we're using too many yeah deplete the resources at the rate we we're going um so it's quite sad really the comparison of the two in the two different timelines in Mary treat it's all exciting and new and all these wonderful new discoveries about animals and plants and then when we get to the modern timeline it's just Doom and Gloom right it's the start of Industrial Revolution isn't it as well um so I mean which is where you can kind of see this massive like impact of humans on the planet from that point onwards um which yeah it's crazy what what humans have done in like less than 200 years yeah for sure for sure um nature versus nurture oh interesting as well nature versus nurture that is an interesting one when you think about TIG and Zeke yeah is interesting just digesting that a bit um which of our beliefs can we rely on generation changes in beliefs over the generations yes I mean I found that fascinating which is what I liked about the modern timeline was all these different intergenerational kind of interactions between them and the different political kind of uh beliefs and the expectations different Generations have for things cuz she literally at one point Tigs like open your eyes like you're not going to have this like what do you think's going on here like you know I don't know yeah it's really interesting uh I enjoyed when they went to see the Christmas lights and the question around why we pay to use all the all this electricity tig's favorite was recycled materials being lighted well houses around it yeah yeah always big on nature yep think Science Background you can imagine yeah I mean you can imagine actually yeah because that and Poisonwood bable she knows so much about plants actually didn't she yeah featured in Demon as well like I mean she's from Appalachia right so like her descriptions of the Appalachia mountains and like the forests and stuff where very good um it also seems several of the characters found solace in nature Mary Thatcher TIG and Willer yeah comt in the natural setting uh oh she has degrees in ecology Evolution and evolution smart woman and also you know prizewinning amazing author so yeah she is she is a badass for sure um I think Jack if you don't mind I think we might have to round that yeah yeah we've got just to yeah I think we've kind of covered most of what I would talk about with it really so yes next book um I hope everyone kind of enjoyed the discussion even if you didn't fully enjoy un sheltered I really enjoyed reading unsheltered um and it hasn't put me off reading any more Barber King s oh no it hasn't put me off either no um I just found it like the whole ideas is thing fascinating so next complete flip the script for something completely different um this was also a present from Alice for me for Christmas actually I'm glad I got a physical copy of it so we are going to be reading in September and October I'm gonna read it in October grd Hendrick is horror store so if you've never read any grd Hendricks um I've only read one other the southern V book club's guide to slaying vampires Grady Hendrick has been a real kind of refreshing voice in the horror genre actually um and what I really like about his books is the kind of like design of them particularly this one I've been fascinated I've had this is on everand and I've wanted to kind of just read the actual Book for a long time because it's set in uh supposedly Swedish furniture store and it's a horror story about some I kind can't people are going missing in the in the in the Swedish furniture store and the whole like book looks like an Ikea catalog and when you open it up the whole design of it is like that let's see if I can show you any bits yeah so yes so the book itself is designed like that um and yeah so it should be interesting to read um but also a really good story because I've read one grd Hendrick book like I said he was really really interesting so yeah so that is our September October pick and it'll be over on my Channel at the end of October a Halloweenie Halloween Halloween one um funny enough it's probably the first year we've not got a next year we've got what have we got for September October um gosh what was it for September October orange Co orange I dystopian not really horror though but I suppose bit horrific first went had a horror book for September October but yeah so um yeah so if you fancy joining us for that um yeah that'd be great to see everybody and um hopefully you'll enjoy it um and be good um all right well thank you everyone in the comments it's been such a great chat I know me and Jack have definitely got a lot out of talking to you guys about it and I think we probably could have gone on and talked about it for a lot longer oh my gosh have a 5-year-old to put to bed so um yes we'll look forward to seeing you all at the end of October and uh yeah enjoy your evenings guys all right bye everyone bye [Music]