No Ceilings LIVE (Kobe Bryant or James Harden ?)

e yeah yeah back once again noon no sillings live I hope y got a chance to listen to the last podcast conversations about James Harden if you haven't click the link in the bio you know what I'm saying make sure you jump on click that link where you can subscribe to no sillings the podcast executive produced by Charlamagne the guy for black effects and iHeart uh Tuesday yesterday we dropped a podcast conversations about James Harden I did it with my buddies from uh hoops and Bru hoops and Bru um really interesting conversation they were talking about James Harden being the um third greatest shooting guard of all time third grest shooting guard of all time and um we just started to peel back the layers obviously we had some people that we thought probably should be on that list before James Harden you know that had greater NBA careers but for sure James Harden is definitely on that list in the top five and as we got into like a um as we got deeper into the conversation it was uh crazy it was the more I thought about it it was just crazy you know what I'm saying it was like um we we end up we ended up getting into a space we end up getting into a space you know what I'm saying where we was talking about whose offense was better James Harden or Kobe Bryant and that conversation really kind took over the podcast and it was a hell of a crazy conversation I ain't going to lie it it it really really really threw me off you know what I'm saying to say the least it threw me off to say the least um but the more I investigated the conversation it made sense so shout out to Marlin Marlin what's happening peace to the homies I brought my brother trap Brad Shaw from Queens New York feel me we in the music we talk a lot of hip hop on his uh platform ADHD Clubhouse Twitter you know what I mean is go go subscribe to ADHD on clubhouse and uh we can get to this conversation it's funny because it's you you actually mess with Hoops so it makes sense definit me you know to have this conversation with you y that's that's I gotta I gotta hear that I mean I didn't get a chance to tune in to the um to the Pod yet but I'mma um I'm G check it out tonight though but I want to hear um what people had to say about that because I mean we are we counting dog I'm saying the dog within them know I'm saying within the player within ranking them offense is such a a big conversation you don't talk offense either you don't talk offense too much my my f I didn't bring up the conversation uh uh uh uh uh um the homies brought up the conversation the homies brought up the conversation uh uh I think it was pavy pavy brought it up and he was like well whose offense is better and obviously if you just talked about scoring the ball right you it's Kobe Bryant by a mile Kobe is a much better score much more complete score much more Dynamic score than James Harden James Harden is a really great score again so that's saying a lot because Kobe James Harden ain't no pushover when it come to scoring the ball like I don't know too much about his mid-range or we can start talking about some you know particulars but James Harden puts some points on the board he he gets it done you know what I'm saying but he a 37 one season didn't he yeah he did had multiple Seasons averaging 30 so yeah if it's just scoring the ball Kobe Bryant is as great of a score as you could be right as far as from the shooting guard perspective right but when you account for passing yeah yeah it makes interesting and everybody obviously on digital soapbox on this platform everybody that's on on uh in La period everybody in the world obviously Kobe Bryant is a better a better basketball player than James Harden much more accomplished just a greater player but I've always said for years right that Kobe's defense is really what made Kobe Kobe people talk about his offense but his offense like if you compare it to Michael Jordan is not really as efficient like Jordan does the same thing but just more efficiently but where Kobe is as great as a player you could be at his position as a Defender you don't make 10 you know first team defense and not be a tremendous player that goes underneath the radar a lot though when it comes to Kobe though people don't realize that Kobe made them first team defense you know what I'm saying second team like that he was on that [ __ ] every time he proud himself on defense though a lot though know I'm saying yeah and I think because because of his offensive game it gets overlooked how how good of a defensive player he was though too I'm saying was and really and that's what really makes him a greater basketball player than most people yeah you I mean like he he was the greatest shooting guard at his position offensively and the greatest shooting guard defensively at his position but if you just segmented greatest at his time time his ER about his err we can't really talk we we could talk about Michael Jordan defense and Kobe defense and argue about but really they just dominated their all right okay Co I got you think BR you know defensively was as good as Michael Jordan was for as long you know as amount of time he wasn't as great as a shooting guard offensively if Michael Jordan for 10 plus years but for sure defensively he was just as great and that's what got him wins that's what got him the Championships it wasn't the offense it wasn't the offense it wasn't I mean I think he had tremendous offense but his stops man like when they beat the Celtics in 2010 that stops yeah that that's when your offense can't get going you got to rebound the ball you gotta put you got to stop players because the score is gonna be 72 to 79 you feel me your offense ain't gonna get it done he the best defender on the team huh was he the best defender on the team another [ __ ] from Queens another guy from that right now to see what going say War little shaky defense is my expertise you feel me offense I'm Shing my favorite player is an offensive player but defense I that's my that's why I hang my hat so again you saying like it was it was a young man from Queens there that was really the greatest Defender but Kobe was probably right on that level you know what I mean Matt B on the other team Matt B on the other team when he was yeah R Orest is crazy you feel me crazy crazy was crazy but offensively if we just take the offense right if we just make it offense if we say who has the better offense not just scoring the ball shout out to Ptown rep shout out Max Millie elos all the people that support no sillings live Monday Wednesdays and Fridays at noon right here on digital so boox on YouTube I know we want to say Kobe I know Kobe died I know Kobe got five rings I know Kobe's a Laker but offense I really I'm okay with saying James Harden's a better offensive player cause you you adding in the um he averag a triple double which means he had 10 he a 10 assists he a 10 assists in the whole season within averaging 37 points you know what I'm saying um he scores from all levels you know I'm saying he was able to he was able to um score in the paint he was able to score in the mid-range and he had a three um I mean he did have that 81 points in the midrange was cool Point what's the what's the most that um James Harden dropped you think I gotta look that up look that up games it's a 60 point game a never dropped 60 or 70 no [ __ ] like that yeah yeah yeah CU that's what people gonna point out a lot though too goe dropped the 81 though he dropped the 81 no no Kobe is a better scorer and like I said that's saying a lot CU James Harden's a really great scorer but got a lot of shots up when you include passing right when you include scoring the when you include passing the ball offensive rebounds you feel me it's a it's a different thing we might got something to talk about we might have something we start adding all that we start adding all that into it then a lot of other people get into the get into the mix of it though I feel like I look look at Tracy M most the most James Harden scored was 61 yeah and KOB got yeah um yeah shout out to everybody supporting uh uh no sillings my man Trey just entered the chat Treyvon Edwards one of the most savest guys I know that no Hoops that was a Hooper in college a trap meet the homie Trey trap it's one of my brothers from Compton it's one of my brothers from Compton you got to you got to you got to unmute yourself Trey it's one of my brothers from Compton it's one of my Queens brother he out in New York you know what I mean yeah yeah what you say what are you saying about this right now man okay Trey offensively including not just scoring the ball Trey you got to take some time and think about this answer who is a better offense Talent James Harden or Kobe Bryant take your time include all things offense offensive rebounds passing the ball scoring the ball who's a better off I was gonna say and I think I mentioned this uh prior to us even having the conversation of getting to this point right offense is such a broad like when you say offense you could go into so many different ways right how you want to put it right you say hey man this person is the best scorer this person has the best footwork person can score inside and out best three-point shooter it just it goes so broad right sure now when you really think about in the grand scheme you got field goal percentage shot attempts all these other things which obviously we didn't care about before the it test and I mean the it test was our only thing think about wind shares and all all these other things but I will say James Harden is a better offensive player um but and Kobe said it you know during while he was alive that he did not enjoy James Harden's style of basketball like it just was not the the fluidity of like where he you know what I mean he wasn't G to get off my line because he was very um receptive to how the game was going where it was you know what I mean um but that one year the MVP year I outside of Michael Jordan I ain't seen nothing like that you feel me like yeah on across the board when you think about offense when you go about getting somebody involved being able to score shoot a mid-range cut to the basket and those tough shots that he was taking 35 feet out 31 feet in however you wanted to put it he is a better offensive player now when you say skill Kobe Bryant hands down you know what I mean but offensive player James's offensive player James Harden shout out to Mike Smo TV my brother Mike smoo Harden can't score in the playoffs oh okay so here's the thing right and we we love to that does count right because the the game in debates how we even talk about these things right we get away from from the main thing this is a team sport we always make it one V one because we highlight Stars we we take away how you even got those open looks who ran hard through those Lanes who rebound to get you the second attempt who set that great screen we eliminate all those things right and we think about playoffs right when we even cry about yo somebody shouldn't have won the MVP MVP is a regular season award it is right but and go ahead and the key word in that is value some reason we we we have synonymously made that award the best player versus they're telling us it's the most valuable go ahead Trey I'm sorry I'm me to cut you oh you good what yes that is the knock right if James ever took I think I think that that that is a stretch now unless he's becomes like an eighth or ninth man on someone's roster and he's really chasing a ring which I don't see him he prefers to still be comfortable in himself and do whatever he does but in the playoffs James tends to gas out right and it's because is that's what it is yeah yeah it's definitely so here's the thing no it's not it's not a mental thing it's not uh thing it just checks out man he just gases out he'll go for the said 71 77 games back then he was playing 81 82 you know what I mean but full thing and this is a similar thing that we're having with Luca right Luka obviously got new help he got Kyrie now they added clay they got more options and these teams was very created to James Harden my way or the highway right it was never a all right bro here help me out you know what I mean the Clippers is probably the one team that he's ever had where he could honestly say and but he ball and the guy not the Sixers not the Sixers when he had Joel no no because him and him him and mbid never really worked for one on paper looked good they both are foul Hunters they both Clogg the ball they stopped the ball the play was just not and James went away from what he did best when you're tra when you think when the Nets traded for James Harden right hated that they thought they were getting the Houston Rockets James Harden right I didn't want them he switched he switched his game to quote unquote fit because that is a good excuse to take it off he didn't come in the shape his body finally wore down his hamstrings his own well like you know what I mean and now when he got to the Sixers cool you got to the place you want to be you still not 100% what you trying to do and then also you went and settled you don't get to the rack anymore you're not trying to beat anybody off the dribble it's three or you know or a pass limited yourself you know I mean you're a shell of yourself not saying that and he's kind ofed with the clippers but like he's not as fast those moves don't work and the off and and the rules have changed a little bit to not work in his favor you get what I'm saying so um it is a difficult thing right but that's unfair to say that there is a playoff hardened thing I think the thing is is that most of his teams weren't as successful just because he just didn't he wasn't able to pass the labor off in teams like teams are built to succeed his teams are regular season teams to boost his stats and make him look good you know what I mean a Clint capella you know what I mean he always play with a a lob catching big right and compliment his passing and three point shooters right okay okay so but listen so Mike to to get to your point Mike Kobe Bryant averaged 25 5 and four in the playoffs James Harden averaged 22 6 and five I don't think it's an issue of him can't scoring in the playoffs I think where Kobe won in the playoffs is on the other end if you put him next to Ron artes or if you put him next to uhh Trevor arza some guys that can lock down what happens is you get the best defense in the in the black Court in the playoffs you I mean you Kobe struggled to score in the playoffs the last championship we won as the Lakers Kobe didn't average a ton of points in that playoffs it wasn't like he was scoring the big buckets he wasn't averaging 40 you know what they did here's the difference too G sorry is that Kobe Ain g a damn about efficiency Iris didn't give a damn about efficiency am I gonna win this game you hear what I'm saying I'm going to take as many shots as I potentially can to will my team to Victory that's not working in 2024 we would kill them we would literally kill them like You' be like yo Kobe got 40 they got the win but did you see 18 for 46 but but M but mine is the efficiency to people say Harden can't score in the playoffs because they're not winning championships and I'm I'm just is his teams built to play Championship level basketball but I don't even think okay so the way I see hoops right and we talk about about this and y'all give me [ __ ] all the time you really build around identities of alltime great players yes or multiple alltime great players yes right so like James Harden's offense while it is incredible it's not Magic Johnson's offense it's not Michael Jordan's offense it's not it's not generational transcend there's a limit to his offense well I think it's a limit to I think it's a limit to all players offense no but to an extent right when you say somebody's a three a three like basically a uh three style score right when they can they can go get mid three-point line sure right sure you can't say that in the latter post Houston Rockets James Harden he's to get no no but hear me out you think about a Kobe Bryant pre ailles his game was so fine-tuned to footwork to low mid post get to the rack trying to be explosive like none of them dudes can't even dunk right now when you really think about even even K right sure K don't go to the rack no more at all he settled for the elbow jumper he might get something if he get a dunk he's slashing really through he not getting no put back dunks he not doing that his first step is changing he's he's he's a mature player at this point exactly so as players get olders shout out to Kevin Durant I'm sorry they not they not in a scenario to even thrive in that scenario like the player that's still playing like how they playing he's still getting killed but his inactivity to win is Paul George Paul George still the only player that's still out here moving and grooving late until his 30s and trying to still play the same style of game ain't trying I mean he he he reached out to somebody the other day he's always had he's always had a developed game though he's always could I get what you said he going to the cup he's still going to he still changing yeah he was he he just reached out to LeBron this summer asking how to adjust because he knows that he's not going to be able to do certain things which is very true but he's going to settle so I mean I look at it like it shouldn't be a knock I mean let's get back to the actual topic of the playoffs conversation it shouldn't be a soul knock on James I think that takes away from so much because again basketball is one in a team aspect right but but yes but it's it's not about KD versus the Milwaukee Bucks that year he stepped on the line sure sure Joe Harris had to make those shots yeah but I don't know again had to make those shots think about this though he had to make those shots but it gotta come got hurt right James Harden is hurt KD can only do so much he get he gave us his best performance individually you know what I mean k don't Kay don't like to shoot a lot of shots he's efficient he'll shoot sure sure how many other shots he shoot he gonna make the [ __ ] but 17 out of 19 and you be like bro I want you to go for 50 you can get 50 whatever you want and he's like nah I'm gonna pick and choose my spot 47 right 47 his his game is like Michael Jordan is built the same way it's taken like like Kobe to me spent his whole career Michael Jordan spent his whole career figuring out shooting all the shots he knew he could make Kobe Bryant fig spent his whole career figuring out how I'm G make every shot if that makes sense but also he he added to his game right he became 96- 98 MJ he took that part and said all right I'mma add this to my game the next thing he did was put his own remix to that [ __ ] and took it to a whole another level because reached out to Elan he reached out to Gary P he start putting all this [ __ ] into one little thing and also you gotta think about just killing nature like bro it's a lot of people that quit n i I just want to ask y a question real quick because are we just talking about are we talking about scorers are we just talking about shooting [Music] guards conversation is purely about Harden and hard okay all right all right all right but but I think melow a better scorer than all of them yes yes I think he's a dynamic scorer but he's not a better scorer than either one of them neither better than or James hard footwork wise he could score on the post on the three he could score on every level and every bit away they can't they can't score the way Meelo can score shout out shout out to Uncle Ben I'm not disagreeing I feel like Meo a top three score all time that's what I'm saying really be no he's not a top three scorer of all time he definitely is no he definitely is people to ever like to to defend Melo Melo is a person that can score from every position but is Melo gonna score from every position that's the problem yes no yes G got me on the trail three you got Melo on the catch and shoot hear me out you got me on theot cuz he might spin on you get you that little quick joint bang out quick you know what I mean got me on the fade you you can't stop them stop shout out shout out to my brother Pete who has joined the actual live Pete is a is a is a hoop he's not an avid hoop fan uh again this is no sings Live I got my brother Trey my brother trap from Queens my brother Trey from Compton listen Melo is a possible Melo can score from everywhere will he score is the thing yes no what bro you better go watch yo bro go watch the commentary when the player he was the toughest guard if they had they had the guard everybody because he can because possibly he can score from everywhere on the court but you got to score B Melo is like a PO man's KD get the [ __ ] Poor Man's ktie poor Kevin Durant don't hit the block he don't hit the block he could in his when he was with the Warriors he was posting he don't hit the block you remember when he was with the Warriors he was posting Trey that boy's out there he was getting money every time he turned around once that hit the block won't hit the block here's my thing not saying K can't post he he did with the warrior no no no no no no again same way you just said possibility scoring he can score that way but will he go to a block and go get it that way no no that's not his choice of game but it does you eliminating his point of B Melo bro no I'm not I'm not eliminating his point I'm telling you the problem is he can score better than Melo in the post he could score he's a poor man's Kevin Durant and that's say a lot because R I don't even like putting them to Unique play the ex same game no they don't they play the exact same game both of them are three tier scor let you I'm gon let you get that opinion off because this is not facts how is it not facts what do they do different what do they do different Trey even my about Harden and Kobe that's not facts it is opinion no no my opinion is fat no it's not I do I look I'm not a part of that world where people just be I only form my opinions based off facts but that's not but there's no fact that can prove if you look at where they shoot on the court it's going to be from the same place all right all right look right look right so now Durant Melo is two dribbles boom boom up shot up um um K gonna dribble he might drible dribble shot up no no KD gonna drible gonna create the dribble melo's gon two dribbles spot he can trap he don't always have to man two listen with the Warriors that's what made him so Unstoppable it was two dribbles W all night his efficiency was through different but that kind was a different offense he was in right there though like he had he had to play that way within that offense right there because it was like it wasn't it wasn't necessary for him to have to dribble the ball like that because you got you got Draymond dribling you got step dribbling all he doing he come up the screens come up the screens where you playing block that's what he doing like that when he was with the Warriors that's what he was doing with the Warriors though was a different you see him play like that withs like that with okay you could put him at the top of the perimeter you could put him in the post Steve car will run him in the post he'll [ __ ] your ass Kevin Carmelo's Anthony Carmelo Anthony's game is just like Kevin Durant's game it's just like Larry Bird's game look I like I'm going to lean towards KD but I'm not about to front on Melo I'm not front on Melo I think Melo is is one of the greatest scores as a small forward in basketball yeah but I'm just again it's just it's just go way depending on the scenario I just don't I just can't not say that I've watched him damn near break Kobe ribs bro like remember that great player I'm not taking away from ftic you got Melo out here jab jab however you want it Bo you be them nuggets years then you going to New York we not saying we not saying Melo is not an amazing player I'm not that's not what we're talking about no I'm not saying that that but I'm saying it could go either way however you want to lean into it no no it's not either way it's clear it isn't either way man it's clear no no it's not it's clear and you know it not that no it's not it's not it's not so so Kevin Durant's score is not clearly a greater score the Melo Melo no no lying on this podcast no no this gonna be another they both scores bro Kevin Durant is a better scorer than Melo depending again it is opinionated depending depending on how you like to see it scored I don't care how you like to see his score he's a better score listen again depending on how where you want it at my man like low po Bang kin Durant in the low post over Melo in the low post no no no I've never seen KD bully ball I've never seen a do Bully Bully ball is different that's a little different that's part ja don't have a bully ball game in a low post the low post can be compr KD what kind of what kind of game do KD have in the post everything you turn around one step face up just however you want it f he could what every part saying he can't do it but he not banging no no I'm not I don't agree face up I totally agree he's not banging might with the dirt leg if you want that if you want that last piece that he's not banging here you go yes Kevin Durant is not going to bang you back and and work it don't work in his style of play I'm saying everything else okay for sure bully ball everything also M but also Melo not about to do what K do off the drip he not about to do that he do that he just don't do it as good no no he don't do it like that don't do not doing that dribles dri Bo boom gon look at your feet gonna hit you with a jab goingon to hit you with a jab lean into you a little bit get a little physical he going to Tire you that cuz he got he he playing a long game he G he gonna get right up in your chest he G do all this underrated physical game I agree I'm just I'm not disagreeing it's two different styles and however you like it whoever you like before that again most people that like Michael Jordan gonna lean towards KD most huh I hate Michael Jordan no no but if you liked how Michael Jordan scored you're going to like how Kevin Durant scored but minus what we prefer let's just talk about what works the best what works no no no no no no no Tre you ain't got no option for Denver Nuggets Carmelo not at all need no option at all early early early Nick mellow was crazy early Nick mow was crazy but the that I remember that playoff series when they played against the Lakers I never forget that game one right he was taking Kobe in the block come here Kobe just bullying him the whole time it was he a big old small he a big old front Court player that's what he supposed to do you supposed to use your size to your advantage man and then he could bring you bring you out side those two players are why are y'all defending Melo like I'm attacking Carmelo no no no I'm I'm just saying he's not one of the three best scorers I've seen yes he is is he one of the three best scores at his position I've seen no no he's one of the three best scores of his era okay sure sure who's man who's in his era you start talking about all that oh who's in this ER too many killers it's too many killers it's never not a better score than KD hey it's never gonna be a fact it's too many killers it's a fact Kevin Durant's a better scor than Carmelo Anthony that's a fact it's a fact why Leonard it's a fact why Leonard is a better Ka leard a better score hey came to ruin my day right not at all get my blood pressure up not at all bro you don't even have no blood pressure would you like 170 good blure work you good godamn that's crazy yes he's a better ask question okay it's a net girl conversation what you say Pete this is a net verse gross conversation break it down Pete break it down please meaning the argument for Kawai for Kobe for Durant they're higher net they are they their grosses are comparable but they are higher net it's almost like when you watch gymnastics and somebody gets whatever the hell score and then someone gets uh not perfect but a higher degree of difficulty when you narrow down your time and space you're elevating the degree of difficulty for your game but that's also how you win on the floor of five in offense in in in the schematics of time and space confines which is what basketball's all about so the cost the greater cost between that net and gross production of Harden specifically at the start of the conversation some of these other guys comes at the expense so he's like he's he's Outsourcing cost to the other four on the floor so he's always a greater score on a lower degree of difficulty Outsourcing cost to the rest of the floor for the potential of the overall five so if it's comparable in output on paper statistically between A and B but B is doing so at a lower cost to the other four then it's not all that competitive a discussion to me I agree with and that's my point with p and that's the difference between playoff basketball that's between June and January because as resistance increases on defense performance on the rest of the floor collapses exactly and that's why people say James Harden's not effective in the playoffs because he's not effective in the playoffs because he collapses the rest of the floor as resistance Rises but that's because offense becomes less efficient in the playoffs the the the the referees the the NBA allows people to play defense don't play flat footed like it's Tuesday night January 10th in Milwaukee or whever the [ __ ] it matters yeah they be the NBA is is marketing 170 to 162 they don't want you to play defense they want to they want people to watch and people love scoring the ball the average Joe don't want to come home to a basketball game that's 73 to 74 they don't appreciate basketball you mind that you like that right there huh know but it is a game of offici listen I grew up in that game and I played in that game in college in right I know I understand it but you can't complain about um defense because the game has changed now to I'm not I'm not complaining Trey I'm saying I'm just saying fans can't complain knowing that basketball is kind of leaning towards all offense you know what I mean like can't complain it's doing that to cater to the fans yeah and really they're not Fanatics they're just people for some reason people think the hardest thing to do is make a shot it it hasn't hit them that the hardest thing in the NBA to do is to stop somebody else from making a shot everybody you know what man the average person could come out on the basketball court and if you shoot 10 shot a lot of Clunkers in warm-ups right but what is what is a defender in 2024 right now it happens in the playoffs we no no no no no but no but what is an example of a Defender at this point name one player that is like holiday on Kyrie Irving in the finals I like that but or how many possessions is that you get what I'm saying enough enough to where you win the game game is W in the the gamees W in two or three percent in in two or three possessions you know what I mean you're it would be tough don't get me wrong I think if Drew holiday guarded Kyrie all night Drew holiday could probably keep Kyrie at about 40% imagine heroing a Defender though how would the game be like to to to her you know what I do that's this is why y'all argue me about my point guard list I hero Defenders as much as everybody hero I said you be on BS the game I just appreciate defense I grew up in a off bro it's always off everybody else but that's what I'm saying so again same way how we talked about it earlier everybody got their different preferences that don't mean it's a fact you get what I'm saying I'm not saying that you're that you wrong either you know I mean that you got a Dennis Johnson or in your top five you get what I'm saying because you have a preference the same way a man like Melo we like k you know I mean it is what it is but you still get the same type of thing you know what I mean yeah it's crazy because it's all ego anyway right sure right and when I say I'm talking about ego it's more so ego of the fan getting the argument off the player is just a just an excuse to argue this right you know what I mean because like the Jordan LeBron thing we can go all day until we lose our breath yeah I know what I watched somebody else might watch it different they might look at the talent with a different eye but if you was alive in 1980 and you walked across the street and you see somebody you gonna be like yo I can't play with them dudes you know what I mean you're not gonna be judging it off of off of bad quality TV you gonna think Larry Bird ain't [ __ ] you gonna think Dominique Wilkins ain't [ __ ] you gonna think Clyde Drexler ain't [ __ ] you I yeah I don't know where they get that from Jo J Mars ain't [ __ ] but I'm no because again you're watching it with a eye that is now exposed to so many new moves to different rules to high scoring like they comparing [ __ ] kayln Clark to chery swoops what the [ __ ] you seen that [ __ ] you seen that like somebody call me up with that [ __ ] that was crazy but but at the end of the day it ain't even about it no more it's about who W to make an argument who want to do this yeah but but I try not if you wasn't there it's hard to like process that [ __ ] you know funny yeah I try not to do that yeah I try not to do that Trey what I try to do is I look at the whole game as it's being played like let's say the 40 Koozie Bob Koozie basketball games I've been able to watch you know over this much time since they were filmed right I got so respect now listen when people see so like when people talk [ __ ] let's say in the group chat and and the homies is talking [ __ ] about my picks they're looking at Kyrie dribbling the ball today and Bob Koozie drib the ball in the 50s and 60s I'm looking at how everybody else in the 50s and 60s were dribbling the basketball that's how I judge basketball I don't judge it based off of what's happening today versus what's happening yesterday how how was Oscar Robertson dribbling the basketball how was all the other guards dribbling the basketball you know that's how I just basketball so then you could see how far an athlete was ahead of his class thing right G right did you my man did you did either one of y'all play like Beyond High School I play college I play you get so you get it right so here's the thing now here's another thing how tall are you you don't mind me asking 66 66 so did you get to be a guard or did somebody tell you go low block n it was the low block but later on later on they was letting us they was letting us do a little bit more but but for the most part it was a low block though at 66 you what I'm saying now imagine you grow up you 66 you enter eighth grade and they say hey he the ball do what you want to do play point we gonna work with you to be a ball handler like Magic Johnson or whoever it said be right you're gonna be a different person like it's hard to like you know what I mean like I I've had to play the three and I'm not even I'm like under 6'2 you know I mean like you got to understand like people were limited they did what they potentially do we go back to a big old we go back to whoever it is even kareim du Jabar said yo he told yis kumbo hey I'm jealous of you because if they if my coach would have slightly let me do a little bit what you doing how much better would I be you yeah like that freedom so it's kind of disrespectful when you hear gu like Anthony Edwards or said any of those players I was I was mad at she calling that man Derek mcke saying he wasn't better than Derek mcke today which was kind of wild who better than Derek mcke but that was out of SP Anthony Edwards man you can't you can't you can't put Derek mcke against no that's not totally different take that was spiteful take yeah that was at of the day you were you gotta shut up though yeah I mean no he gotta be quiet man he gotta stop he gotta he's he's seeming like he's not knowledgeable about the game when he's no he literally he literally said he ain't start watching until he was 15 and the only person he did watch was KD was KD was KD yeah watched Adrian Peterson way he was he was going be football Adrien Peterson was his guy he watched that and then he got so I can't be mad that he don't watch hoop but I think it's a silly thing wait a minute who are we talking about didn't watch hoopy Edwards manman what was the what was the actual so did you hear the take so you hear the take that he said so the take that he said was basically that um it wasn't really it wasn't no skilled players in the NBA back in the days aside from Michael Jordan he's saying M and yeah so you heard magic respond magic responded real quick magic who don't win it's mouth that that man never won a championship I don't think he ever won a championship in high school I don't think he ever won a championship in college and let alone he no championship in the NBA to be talking about skilled the most skilled players in own know what I'm saying back then so like he was great like like his texes been crazy though man and and is and is y'all know I feel the best player on that team and is dope he's he's probably the best offense well second best offensive player on that team um about that huh prob the best offensive player on the team but again it's like back to James Harden and and Kobe Bryan's offense it's okay to say James hard 's offense is better than Kobe Bryant's overall but again Kobe Bryant is not Kobe Bryant because of his offense that's why he's Kobe Bryant to the general person who watches basketball to a real hardcore fan and we all know Kobe got the stops we all know Kobe got the stops that's what we loved about him like yeah he he'll shoot you out the game you know I mean you be like damn Kobe sh goddamn Kobe passed the ball but guess what he was gonna come back down on the other end you know I mean and do what it took to make sure you didn't score if he didn't score for sure and I think that's where the separation comes for James Harden and Kobe Bryant in the playoffs as players James Harden is not that guy on defense now that's not to say James Harden can't play defense he's just not Kobe Bryan on defense he did play defense and then he ditched it yeah yeah the OKC years the crazy they drafted him we were talk I was talking Quinn Richardson about this they drafted James right James A score Arizona State you know what he did we knew what he did right he gets to OKC he's coming off the bench for one and he's playing defense that's what he was known for his first two three years he was known for playing defense knocking down a three and slashing to the basket and cut make back for like a three and D guy they fre him after after that loss to Miami said oh you too good to be doing that got in his head he requested that trade got to Houston did it a little bit with that Squad Francisco Tony Dan Tony was the thing though was the Dan Tony playing that Dan Tony offense you know what I'm saying anybody look at look at look right it's crazy because all three of them played in the dead Tony all three the people you talking about Melo played in the dead Tony off went crazy Kobe played in the dead Tony off went crazy and Harden play in offive player dream yeah spre the court yeah that's a fact so when to say James Harden is probably well maybe Steve Nash but I would like to think James Hardy James Harden is the best player in the Dan Tony system he benefited the most but it could be Steve Nash I go I go I go with Steve Nash I go with Steve Nash Steve Nash and and sta too St was St played with with the Suns and with the and with the Knicks in the offense because it's basically the pick and roll he was eating on that that that's when he had them um had that had that streak that he went on with the Knicks that was at the anonio offense I think if I'm not mistaken yeah so can we all come to that conclusion as a panel for once that we all agree James Harden's offense is better than Kobe Bryan's offense not scoring offense as a whole I said that I came in with that okay Pete the J's offense is better than Kobe Bryant's offense no yes God damn it who said no here the thing again this is just my opinion I don't want anybody that yeah this I'm not like it's like it's like Doug Collins Jordan versus Phil Jackson Jordan that's totally different it's totally different why you it's not different in the micro it's just it it's it's different in the micros it's it's not that different no that was different Phil Jackson Phil Jackson Jordan against Doug Collin Jordan was totally different Doug cin much better score kin Jordan was was was was erratic was just scoring from all over the place you know what I'm saying like he was just know I'm saying so he was scoring tons of points at high cost off your dog in a free in an open yard exactly exactly that as a little kid that Jordan was something to see no he was but that's what I'm saying that James Harden was something to see no matter how you want to I'm not that's what I'm saying I'm equating Harden to Collins Jordan and Kobe to Jackson Jordan what about passing the ball minus scoring Pete what about how phenomenal a passer James Harden is years he was the best point guard in the league and he wasn't even a point guard yeah well he's the best pass in the league I mean Kobe had his years when he um when he was passing the rock though you know what I'm saying I'm a G I know he Street where he tried it he doing he tried it at one point okay what you say bro what was you saying me brother there was just saying no old boy was saying sign what's his name what's the names again real quick what's your boy Trey from conon and my boy Pete from the OC all right Pete Pete Pete okay Pete I thought Pete was saying something he was um yeah go ahead Pete no I say that's that's that's like a lot of the time component it's like a quarterback having no time to throw or six seconds for guys to get open to a degree I ain't mad I get what you saying I get you I get you I get you em Smith versus Barry Sanders little bit it's just more more of the quarterback I mean if you're gonna H hold the wall for a longer period of time it affords more movement around you to get off a pass that is better versus if you're okay stay in this quarter of the court for six seconds that's what you got or use that half of the court for eight seconds that's what you got it you know there's differen I think it's more I think it's more so to do with um reason why you seeing you seeing um James Harden as being a better passer than what than Kobe is because James Harden was put out on the court at times to facilitate the offense you know what I'm saying it wasn't it wasn't really a it wasn't really a time when Kobe was facilitating Kobe was put out there to score know I'm saying be the scorer in the offense you know what I'm saying and that's what that that's why that's why I would B down like that so James hard was out there come he had to score the ball too he was he didn't have this cushy Clippers job that he had his whole career this job a little bit more cushier them other times that was rough he had to score and facilitate this this hard yeah yeah yeah I think nobody it wasn't a soul out there Jesus couldn't guard that man hey he just Miss shots they missed them shots bro you remember they missed what something threes but you can't blame anybody else if you gonna credit one player you gotta figure to get it they missed but I'm saying they missed what 20 something threes yeah but but again even even even even the Lakers when we played against the Celtics again for that last Championship in 2010 with Kobe we were missing everything too but guess what you get the stops and that's where Kobe is a much greater player than James Harden this is where he's a much player than tmac I mean like t-mac's offense isn't close to Kobe Bryan's but he's not a bad offensive player James Harden's offense I like to think is better than Kobe's offense by a smidget even if it's by a smidget you're adding the passing you're adding the passing you start getting stops it's like night and day it's night and day once you start getting stops James hard get the stops I'm looking at his um I'm looking at his um just assist so starting in 177 he averaged 11.2 assists then he took off like the the next three years he averaged he averaged eight seven and seven and then after that what year was that coming to so this year right here in 20 in 20120 he averaged 10 he a 10 assists that year then he came back around averaged 10 again like he yeah he's he stay up there on the assist on the assist leaders get his he get his team into the game though definitely though I don't think Kobe I think that's where as far as with the offensive like the combin his whole offensive game like that Kobe G it's more Mark like you going going into a scenario of like you already bought into the thing you know what I'm saying like it's even hard to even bring him up in any type of debate without actually stripping away the thing and actually looking at it for what it is because there's a lot of people that just really didn't enjoy that either as a product you know what I mean Big Shot do like all that [ __ ] yeah I strip away all that [ __ ] I I get right to it I don't do all of the [ __ ] all the glory you know we gonna get right to it it's just Nostalgia and moments and how people made you feel so it's kind of hard to go against it sometimes you know what I'm saying like so now that now that now that people are sobering up on Iverson I hate it because when you look at it and you go back and look like God damn he was taking some badass shots but like oh yeah so [ __ ] cool you like shot 38% one shot 38% one season manous you know I mean like it's like I'm hella generous I do look at your size when it comes to efficiency which is why I hold Steph in such high regards I look at where you play at on the court if you're a perimeter player so even at Iverson being at 40% 41 42% as a six foot guard I don't hold that against him as hard now don't get me wrong if he shot 48% Philadelphia probably would have won some [ __ ] champion but I understand also it's I'm hard on Ant-Man in that same regard Antman should be shooting over 50% that's to me if you want more on the line of of a of a Harden than anything because those rosters just weren't built what that you gas out I don't I don't know I don't know if it's the rosters as much as game bro you only can make so many shots bro I think you could put Kevin Durant on just about every team he gonna shoot 50% from the field but he is sure but they also gonna take away some [ __ ] too and you gonna look and people gonna be like damn they got swept and it's like well what the [ __ ] everybody else was doing you know even even the getting swept was more about defense that team just didn't play defense wasn't horrible it wasn't they do a lot of [ __ ] uh Brooklyn Brooklyn for sure they didn't play chill jump off G but this yes sir I want to ask you a question before you go though question before you go I want to ask this I ask everybody the question it was a start it was start benching start bench and cut yeah you got you got Reggie Miller Ray Allen Mitch Richman start this is a fun game that's a cool game is I like is it um is it specific erors or a complete career and they in they Prime just look at them within they Primes so I'm start I'm G start Rock okay I'm G bench Ray and I'm gonna cut Reggie wow yeah all right yeah what you going with Pete what know about rock like that though so I'm you know about rock they don't be know about California of course I know about Miss don't do me like that that again sexy names recognizable faces Mitch is a sexy name no he not aenar is not a sex name to a California person right now G Malone facts I'm not talking to anybody in this Square we are of age too I'm assuming that we're all over 40 yep y yeah yeah I'm about to be 40 so I got a chance to welcome my boy welcome you're being you're being the fraternity man I will scream R strickling to my face is blue you get what I'm saying the CHR the Bison delays we can go start talking about the bside players The Dana bar yeah bar my dude I could name two guys who had two different names throughout their careers too tlr SS what's happening all right all right man all right man easy man love who you going who was you going with Mitch was Dream Team too wasn't he yeah he to I I'm still gonna I'm gonna cut him I'm gonna start Ray and I'm gonna and I'm gonna bench Reggie there was there was enough Talent around Mitch for something to have happened at some point in time and it just never did has some work there has to be something behind that R yeah yeah I mean had hard he had mull he had Weber the time well at the time the Kings the Kings was a decent was a decent Squad right there he just couldn't get over the hump he was with the Kings at that time um which I thought it was with the Kings Rock was that dude n no no he's he's he with Golden State first then I think he went to um I think he might have went to the what he where he went after the um Golden State let me look it up real quick Kings Way Back like curse of Jersey Kings no no no no no now he was with Kings when when they when they changed the jerseys up they was with the Kings I'm G tell you right now I know he's with Washington for a minute but people don't give I be feel like people don't give people don't give um Mitch Richmond enough enough enough props man they certainly don't give him enough props I'm not gonna argue that but was clean bro Mitch was hella clean yeah yeah Mitch was clean I don't think nobody give him problem they Run TMC I don't know what I'm thinking about I think I think I think I think I'm going to start Ray Allen I'm a b regie which I really want to start C you cutting Mitch Richmond cut Mitch yeah I'm cut I don't understanding when y'all be cutting Mitch Rich basketball he play defense and everything too you you that's foul man for real man who I love I love Mitch but I think Reggie is a a a really good Defender I think he a quality Defender I think he got the dribble I don't need him to I'll get somebody else to dribble the ball yeah the other two guys are such lowcost offensive contributors yeah all right so it was Golden State it was Golden State Sacramento and then it was Washington then he played for the Clippers no no he finished off with the Lakers actually finished off with the Lakers yeah yeah there was there was a lot of guys that rolled through that period of time in uh at Golden State what's his name's KNE was all [ __ ] up before went to Miami which really I think held them back a ton but I don't know how the hell he ever Tim I I don't know how the hell he ever recovered to be as productive in Miami as he was it seemed like he was out for five years with slow this game out unbelievable SL this game out man yeah yeah that's what happens when you got that real game you can just catch the ball and shoot the ball but I love what Reggie I love what Reggie do it don't take much you know he's a he's a a serious resourceful bucket all the time serious resourceful bucket all the time I'mma wrap this [ __ ] up man uh thank y'all for coming no sers live back uh uh Friday more of this conversation at noon right here on digital sobx y already know man we out thank you guys easy easy