do you want these sides to play in this tournament that generates revenue for the efl cuz a lot of them don't want to so if you do you're going to have to find some form of compromise that you might not like or the alternative is they turn around and say they're not going to play if these guys don't want to play in this league Cup Tournament what will happen to it I'm looking at the Cabo Cup draw Simon um for the the the next stages of Manchester United against barnesley uh Chelsea against bar Arsenal against Bolton wanders sitting in the cup does it kill the int of this competition um a new seating mechanism has been introduced now you probably heard a bit about this in breakfast but we we we we're going to get into this right now a new seating mechanism has been introduced to the competition for the third round draw now basically because the champions league is expanding there's now A Clash in the calendar for when traditionally The League Cup third round matches would be played So to avoid fixture clashes and to congestion teams playing in Europe in the Champions League have been kept apart to allow them to fulfill um both their champions league and their caribo cup commitments across a twoe period so in other words what's going on here the big guns are having their European commitments prioritized over what is a domestic cup that's the benefit that's the benefit of Merit isn't it no but yeah but let's call it for what it is the draw has been tampered with here in favor of the bigger teams in favor of the elite where is the spirit of competition domestically with this well first and foremost you could say that coming in the third round of the FA Cup has a skewed perspective doesn't it because the the bigger sides all the bigger sides come in in the third round second of all which do you want the efl didn't have to accept this it's their no choice they didn't have a choice no it's it's it is their choice they could have pushed back and made it a public domain issue and and and had a song and dance about it no you are saying we want to make more money out the Champions League you're missing my point so to do this get it but that's not uefa's gift to superimpose over what happens in a domestic League UEFA can expend their tournaments as much as they want how the league then Finds Its way through accommodating those extra fixtures is up to the league scheduling now if the efl were felt that strongly about it there's this argument what you wa for actually want is the second cup removed right you've seen it happen in Spain you've seen it happen in Italy and what you've got in the UK is a resistance because we feel there's a fundamental value in having this tournament that was created in the 60s has great legacy attached to it was originally created to be able to compensate what for for the bigger teams being kicked out of the FA Cup early by losing games so it was always staggered around giving the the bigger sides a better opportunity to win a cup because ultimately that's what the League Cup was created for and now what you've got is a less of two evils do you want these sides to play in this tournament that generates revenue for the efl because a lot of them don't want to so if you do you're going to have to find some form of compromise that you might not like you might not think in an ideal world is a perfect representation of the perfect world of football balance or the alternative is they turn around and say they're not going to play well one minute you say the the efl didn't need to do this and and now you and now you and now you're saying they need to compromise no I'm saying that the commercial reality of it is that they have an alternative which is to push back and say no we're not doing it and then as a result of that where would that get them or depends how Brave they feel they have to be depends how how how fertile the Battleground is for them to drag the Premier League Kicking and Screaming into an argument in the public domain about how they rule English football given the fact that independent Regulators coming down the down the line saying this is what we mean this is the waiting of football this is the unfairness of it a valuable competition that's been historically very meaningful to this country has been diminished and demeaned by the greed and avarest of Premier League football clubs and play that out in the public domain they chose not to do that what they chose to do was find a commercial solution in a big grown-up world of how people find compromises so all those people that are sitting there again it's awful it's outrageous it's unfortunate well okay so is the Premier League to some extent and so is so is the distribution of wealthiness in football to some extent but in this instance or commercial Solutions Trump Integrity don't they I sorry are you bringing Integrity into the conversation when it comes to football yes because this draw has been tampered with no that's exactly what's happen commercial Solutions have trumped Integrity everything no it's it's just evolved everything's seeded so when you've got a Wim okay so why does the number one player in Wimbledon get seeded to avoid the number two player no I don't think it should should be but that's how sport is because ultimately sport is about getting the best ideally to get to the finals the car here has had to bow to UA because they want to expand the Champions leag whatever the U do with the Champions League should have nothing to do with the caribo cup but they haven't bow to UFA they've bowed to the lobby inside the Premier League that's acquest to UEFA and the reasons why the Premier League the big six well whoever the big six may be at that time that's wrong year ago wouldn't have been Aston Villa considered a big S isn't that wrong I think it's the reality why why why is it wrong it's the reality of what happens football is now as much about money as it is about the competitive of the sport and everyone that thinks it isn't is silly because it is so the bottom line is is we've now got have you thought perhaps that it might be easier with the distributions if the big six get what they want the next time you go on their door for more distribution down to the pyramid which they don't have to do and they're not doing well you wouldn't do it either if someone came along to you and said voluntarily give that money to that radio presenter over there cuz he's getting less than you you'd say s off until you were made to do so right in this instance the Premier League clubs will be made to do but you get more and more leverage there's more and more concessions being made in exchange for those concessions there has to be something back the first thing that comes back is their participation in a competition that they don't want to be in in the first place the second thing that comes back is a loading of your gun with a metaphorical bullet to turn around and say we've made concessions you better start Distributing fairly now because you're getting more money as a result of your participation in the UEFA competition which we get zero benefit from I get all that but do you that the spirit of competition is impacted by this um do I well do I okay England gets seed yes or no no because England gets seeded in a well cup and because they've done well in qualifying groups and meaningless friendlies they get seeded to avoid team so for the first time because it because UEFA want to expand their Champions League which the caribo cup is affected and the draw is tampered with but the caribel cup can because they're keeping Champions League teams in Champions League teams are parted in a totally different competition and that that is a a totally valid argument and the only alternative i' give to it is don't have them then and then have no competition because the revenues that will be generated will be zip and the reasons why they're they're making this compromis is because it's a lesser of two evils do I think it's wonderful no then why aren't the big clubs coming in on the first round of the FA Cup why doesn't that happen when did that get decided as fair and the the big clubs are telling the smaller clubs you are nothing without us you need us you need us no this competition does acques to us this competition does this competition does this competition is entirely predicated upon the value of the big clubs being in it so is this the first nail in the coffin then of the caribo cup this is this is the start isn't it you if are tampering with it okay so when man united decided just in the passing why can't a Champions League team play a Champions League team in what respects well and because of all of this a CH a Champions League team an english team playing a Europa League team an english team would be a problem I get that in terms of fixure but commercial value in the same way why can't a top side in Europe play a top side in Europe or the world in the world cup and why are they seeded in such a way to the potentially avoid one another to the business end of the tournament is this right is is what we're seeing today this CBO Cup draw and the way it's fashioned the way it's the way it's been brought about this time around for the third round is it right that it's done in this way is it right compared to what's been done before is it right it favors the big guns I mean what will they temper with next is it is it is it right in comparison with what we've done before if we start if we started the conversation today right and the League Cup didn't exist and The League Cup now was brought onto the roster and ultimately s suggested that the top six clubs are not going to be put into a certain mix people would accept it as the principle of a new tournament because it's steeped in some sort of Legacy history which is being disbanded left right and Center everything that we ever knew about football has been restructured from how many points you get to a game to how a game is officiated to which teams play in the Champions League which by the way is 95 90% of the teams in the Champions League aren't even bleeding Champions so we can look at the whole thing and say well it's all rooted in hypocrisy and double standards and all centered in one thing the only reason efl cup exists now in it in its entirety is for one reason and one reason only the commercial Revenue it brings to the football league because every other league in Europe is being positively encouraged to step their second cup down and the resistance from the UK is no actually we attach value to it and if that's the lesser of two evils that we maintain this valuable Cup by finding something that gives an acquiescence to the the big six whoever they may be at the time then I'll live with it if others don't want to then campaign for the cup to be no more there's Dan in the W I think you've nailed it Dan good morning supporters outside the top six are completely fed up with the Top Flight football these days this is another example of keeping the top clubs at the top because they make the most money uh along with PSR and the top six getting find pittances for trying to break away into a super league and I and I agree with that I agree with the principle that once upon a time I agreed with PRS and I agreed with financial fair play because I thought it what it would do is reduce hyperinflation stop having to listen to burbling rubbish on transfer deadline day about how much money people have wait Ed and put some order into football but it didn't what it did was is it created a trapdoor effect I.E everyone else was locked out yeah so I agree with that but what in a real world where we all have to live if these guys don't want to play in this league Cup Tournament what will happen to it we both know what will happen to it it lose its commercial value what is the lesser of two evils UEFA tampering with it you're making it about UEFA that's what it is it's about them it's about the Premier League's they all roed it through the if the Premier League and the other leagues didn't want to increase the UEFA tournament then they wouldn't have done would they so Money Talks I mean that is natural it's Natural Evolution as you would say seting in the cup then does it kill the Integrity of the competition is this the first sign so that the the big boys who are in the Champions League can't draw each other in a totally different tournament the caribo cup so Europe is uh having the priority over a domestic competition where will it end is this the first sign of Europe being prioritized over domestic cups