On the Shane Page #32: Will Shipley, Ainias Smith, & Jeremiah Trotter Jr. Film Breakdown

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not the evening yeah normally will record in the afternoon I've got the week off which is very nice so we're recording early it's very early if few Americans over there for me it's about afternoon you can tell it's early because I've actually got sunlight uh for those of you watching coming in from my blind yeah I'm good a week off is weird to me because a week off from my normal job just ends up me being a busier week uh for my Eagles work so I've ended up probably watching as much film the past three days this morning alone it's what it's nearly 3 o'clock here and I watched uh a little bit of um Keegan the guard I watched a bit more Johnny Wilson and then I started watching M man and the final Eagles pick so I feel like having a little bit slow on the draft picks this year so uh yeah everything's good though nice to have a bit of time off and actually watch film in the morning and not when I'm coming home from work and sort of rush through it so I feel like I know the Eagles draft picks very well now which I always think is good before the season otherwise you end up sort of figuring them out as you go along during the season it becomes harder so yeah it should be a good one to say I think there's some quite interesting players maybe one not so interesting in my opinion might talk about him as well in will Shipley but the other two in particular are a lot more more interesting for me yeah my thing watching draft picks is I always in my head I carve out like this role for each rookie and how they're going to get on the field and then half of them never do and that always hurts just a little bit because not to not to get ahead of the game but I watch I watch anas Smith and I'm like oh they could give him a few carries he could be a move piece your wide receiver three and he he'll probably maybe return punts or something but in my head I'm building it up I'm like yeah they could get him touches doing this and he can bring this to the team and so I definitely have eternal optimism with rookies until the season starts and even though I I'll see like the weaknesses on film I'm like but they could use them this way like this is what you could do and then it never happens so this is somewhat an exercise and futility for me every year when I look at the rookies I'm just like yes this guy's gonna do this and it just doesn't happen half the time I think it's so difficult as well because you forget um not how bad college is that's not fair but how just the caliber is so different like I was watching um I can't remember his first name Trevor Keegan isn't it the Eagles fifth or sixth round fifth or sixth round um and I always did like a little transition bit of the bottom like and why I think he fell and I think his big I we'll do him next week no I'm talking about him now but he's threshing my mind is like versity like played one position basically a left guard his whole career and you don't want backup offensive lineman who can play one position but you watch his film and it's like he's good like he's he's not dominating but he's very good and you think has he got in the round but you need forget he's not playing against Great defensive tackles every week and it's so hard to project which is why um I always think looking at traits and how they fit in your offense is so much more valuable than how good you think they're going to be because the truth is that it's not that we don't know what these players are like it's just that we don't see them against top tier competition every week because you can go and watch any of these guys like as I said go I watched um there's loads of Trevor Keegan film out there which is brilliant because JJ McCarthy obviously so I spent way too long going down the rabbit hole Yesterday by the way like AJ McCarthy as well I think the Vikings have got a pretty decent QB there see as I hadn't watched him before so I was half watching Keegan half watching the QB and um there and you just realize like he looks good he looks really good then you remember he went in the sixth round may not make the roster possibly will have start a game and it's why you sort of it's a fun thing to look at the rookies but it's also a bit maddening because you just wish you'd actually see more of them um but yeah we're going to get into them today aren't we if you can't read the title you haven't seen we're going to talk about three today because if we try and do any more than three one show uh we will simply never ever end the show so uh it is a little bit late to do rookie breakdowns but if you want to talking about them so we're GNA move to another three today yeah I'll fact check myself live on the air here uh Trevor Keegan was the Eagles third fifth round pick so he was a fifth round pick I was thinking they had three sixth round picks uh but not that that's super relevant but some viewer would comment and let us know because you guys are great about that so uh without any further Ado let's go ahead and dive in Johnny did say we're going to cover three guys today and we're just going in order so we're going to start off with Will Shipley who the Eagles drafted in the fourth round with pick 127 overall and we'll do follow the same format we did last week we'll talk physical profile stats we'll do some strengths and weaknesses and show a few Clips so to start off with Shipley uh Shipley is 511 which is 57th percentile for height 20 106 pounds which is 28 percentile for weight he ran a 44540 yard dash with a 41 shuttle and a 6883 cone and then overall he had a 9.57 relative Athletic score which you might have seen other places it's slightly different in Johnny's article it was 961 and that's just because relative athletic scores shift every time somebody else tests but uh 9.57 is his most recent number that at this point shouldn't really change until testings happen next year uh he had some of his stats in the last two seasons he had 40 targets each of those two years so he's a guy that was utilized out of the back field a lot at Clemson um he was 95th in yards after contact per attempt uh and these rushing stats are going to be among players with 100 or more rushing attempts last year which is 153 guys so he was 95th at 153 in yards after contact per attempt he was 118th in Miss tackles Force per attempt uh 35th in Breakaway run rate which is uh a breakaway run is a run that's 15 or more yards 9% of his runs went for 15 plus yards uh per PFF he was a terrible pass blocker with pass blocking grades of 33.1 20.3 and 27.6 uh he was 11th among running backs in snaps out of the slot at 16.9% and he was 52nd in yards after catch uh per reception at 8.8 yards and he was 70th in drop percentage at 99.4% so you look at the stats Shipley was a guy that was used out of the back field a lot he was used in the slot uh not particularly elusive doesn't really get yards after contact uh but just kind of a steady semi-reliable player and so Johnny you've got an article up on bleeding green nation that everybody should go read uh but you broke down some film there's some uh Clips in there but before we get to Clips what was just your general impression watching Shipley what are some of his biggest strengths yeah so the good news is you can't lie when you watch someone pre-draft and rank them for bleeding green so I wasn't the biggest will Shippy fan so I can't lie post a draft I didn't hate him I had him like round four round five which is basically where the Eagles took him um it's just like philosophically I want explosiveness out of backups rather than like um I mean we use the phrase in England steady Eddie is a friend that is a phrase that's made it over to the states as well I know that yeah you guys use Jag a lot don't you just a guy that's who Shipley is to me like he's not going to bust I mean i' say that pretty confidently he's produced for three straight years a big program like he knows how to play he's a perfectly fine player I just think he's an adequate player pretty much um like if you squint and PFF Sam made this comparison if you really squint you can see a little bit of Christian mcaffrey and maybe like Christian McCaffrey's left toe you can you can just about see a bit of him in there you can see like he can do everything he can do a little bit of everything I just don't think he does anything well I think that's exactly how I explained him in my um pre-draft summary like he can catch a boy at the back field he can hang on uh he excels I might think his best thing is in the screen game like out in space I think his short area speed and elusiveness in tight spaces is his like probably like if you look at the trait that's going to allow allow him to win like really quick feet um I think he's more of a scheme fit than a talent if that makes sense I think the Eagles drafted him specifically to run a lot of outside Zone this year which I've just got a feeling the Eagles are G to sort of change their running game quite a lot this year under K more I think outside zone is going to be a big deal and I think um Shipley understands the Zone running scheme really really well everything else is just fine like fine blocker I actually think his blockings I seen a lot of people say like the eagles are finally got a blocker and I'm not sure his pass protections as good as some people think um but he's fine again like fine contact balance average speed he tested far better than he plays the testing is a little bit odd to me we might talk about that when we get the weaknesses um yeah just does like everything fine like if you want a guy that can come in for a few games and if he has to start a couple with the Eagles offensive line he can keep things going but I don't think he does anything that that Wows you um I don't really have any other Clips sh except for the ones you've got on your film Fred that really stand out so should we start with the outside yeah why do it I think the Eagles will really like him yeah no it's fine you talk about you talk about these clips uh first and and I'll add but I know outside zone is the big one for me like the more you watch shiple film The more you just see outside Zone runs over and over again um so talk to me about what you like from this one here yeah so your your audio cut out for a second by the way so I thought you were done and started talking and then it caught back up so apologies if there's any audio difficulties out here but yeah one of the biggest things with Will Shipley and where I think he's a good fit and Johnny talked about it in his article is he's got good Vision especially on outside outside Zone runs he he's kind of he's a quick accelerator I wouldn't say he doesn't have Breakaway speed but he can stick his foot in the ground and make tight cuts to get up field and so there's two clips here of him running outside Zone and on outside Zone uh you're basically reading from the C Gap to the a gap so again for those of you that don't know if we number or if we I guess it's not numbering if we letter the gaps From the Inside Out uh from the center to the guard is the a gap between the guard and the tackle is the B Gap outside the tackle is the C Gap and so on outside Zone you're taking the handoff and you read from outside in and so you read first the C Gap if it's open we're going to get there if it's not we go to the B Gap and if it's not open we go to the a gap and we're just looking for a place to cut this up field and I think it's what Shipley does really well and so you can see you know you're letting this guy come because we're trying to get outside but if we look at this if we read this back out there's not a SE Gap that we can really hit there's not a B- Gap we can really hit but there's room here in the a gap and so you're going to see Shipley get outside that guy and cut it back inside and I just think that's such a good such a good rep here from him we'll watch it one more time there's a second one here as well but he just does a really good job of slow playing this to the outside and then he sticks his foot in the ground and gets up field and then the second time I mean just you guys that are watching at home watch this full speed and tell me where you would make the cut and then realize you're doing it from A View that's backed off here and you're not also not worried about getting hit but I think Shipley just does a good job of sticking his foot in the ground getting back up field and looking for a cut back Lane and so you know you mentioned that Kell Moore likes to run a lot of outside Zone and I think that's where Shipley was at his best and so when we talk about this being a good scheme fit maybe not the most talented guy I do think he does fit pretty well with what the Eagles are going to look to have him do yeah I think I know people listening to a Brit talk about this who you probably imagine hasn't played the game and football over here have coached a tiny bit in in the UK and when you watch Clips like that it's it's sometimes easier to pause the video and go look at the SE Gap look at the that is hard like that is really hard and you can watch a lot of college guys that can't do that and I'll give Shipley huge credit for that um that first one in particular I think is really really nice and for those of you wondering who maybe don't know as much about the sort of Run game the difference between let's say a gap scheme run is that you don't really have to read it out a gap scheme run basically is does what it says on matin it aims to hit a certain Gap so you might design we talk about Gap scheme things like counter or power um where basically you're following a lead blocker a little bit more old school um in some ways the power Run game and that almost takes away some of the awareness that you need as a running back with the term Scouts will use his vision um Shipley's really good at that and that's why I said I don't worry about EMB busting like you can get more explosive running backs I like the look of like Tyrone traces like is it a gendo 49ers took but they're nowhere near as developed as Shipley like the positive part is really easy to see from Shipley you don't have to squint just watch him run outside Zone and outside zone is more than just a run play uh we're not going to talk about it now because we're going to save it for season pod but I'm really interested at the moment in the sort of like the blurring of the lions in the current NFL between the run and the past game and outside Zone has been so popular for years because but when you get defenses on the move you essentially get them flowing and the way of stopping outside zone is by really quickly flowing in the direction of outside zone so guess what every good team does they run play action and they run the opposite way and we see this is a Shanahan staple going back a long time and the something the Eagles haven't really done a lot and that's why I think Kell Moore is going to bring it this year because he has done it a lot saquon Barkley is a really good outside Zone Runner um and will shiple is as well so I think there's a little I always think the draft gives you a little idea on what schematic Trends you might see from your own team this year as well and I think it's interesting that they drafted a guy who quite clearly excels in the zone Run game um I think that's pretty much all I've got Clips wise Shane so I talk a little bit about weaknesses and why I didn't like him as much before you do that let me show one more clip go for it you got one more do it do it yeah this is one I think he's just he's really good with like his Rush plan and what he wants to do uh watch the way that he manipulates the linebacker here yeah sorry I I I knew we had this lip I'm an idiot it's because you showed two in one in the first one there we go yeah so watch number 31 I assume this is a linebacker maybe it's the safety that's just playing in the box but Shipley is going to sort of fake this cut back to get 31 to commit and then he's going to get this ball back up inside and so the way he manipul this guy out of position is just really good and then of course cutting in the open field makes two guys miss and that's sort of what you get with Shipley he doesn't have that Breakaway speed but I think he's got good vision for the game and he's got a good Rush plan and he's he's slippery he's he goes down pretty easy Once you grab him but he's a little hard to get hands on and so uh I just thought that was a really cool clip especially how he manipulates that linebacker before he even gets to the hole Yeah that's an awesome run that's like a really really high level run as you sort of stole one of the negatives away from you slightly which is what you'd love there is for him to turn that into an ATR touchdown or something um which is why someone like saquin Barkley does but in the reality in the NFL you don't get a bunch of huge run plays anyway um before I go to the negatives Shane we've got a comment from Anthony talking about Shipley in the past game yeah absolutely so really like very very good root Runner um issue I have in the past game is number one if you want to play in the past game you have to be a to block and and I still think he's got some issues in pass protection and quite simply I think Kell Mo has proven that if you're going to bring an extra man he'll leave his running back into block we spoke about that when we did the kmore podcast and I wrot about him in depth so if you want to catch the ball you got to be able to block in this offense and he did have some problems with drops um I think he's like a natural like when you talk about running backs these days there's a difference to me he's a running back like some running backs the blur of the lines between running backs and receivers he is very much a running back he is a catching the ball he doesn't look like s Christian mcaffry who looks like a a wide receiver when he catches the ball um he does have a couple of like inconsistent drops that you wish he didn't have and I'm not going to talk like coaching points um but I think he doesn't looked like it's natural to me he looks like he's like almost concentrating too hard when catching the ball so as a weapon very much used because he's really good in tight spaces so he's really good in the screen game so he will be absolutely used in the Eagles passing game if he can get on the field because that's a big skill of his but just get a little bit prepared for a couple of um drops the other issues I had with shiple just very quickly were fumbles um I put this in the overall but unless you're like saquon Barky level good you can't fumble like if you're a backup running back and you're not on the field very much you simply cannot put the ball down because coaches just won't bother playing you like there was no there was nothing that will end a backup running back's career quicker than fumbles um it's like if you're a star receiver we can live with drops if you're not a very good receiver we can't drops because you're barely open he had four fumbles this year I think eight the past few years um without being mean that just that just can't happen like as I said you don't want anyone to Fumble but if your star players fumble you can accept it because the uh sort of the positives out way the negatives if you're just an average rotational back you can't do that like can you imagine Kenny game last year or Boston Scott were were consistently fumbling that they wouldn't be in the game somebody else would take their place so fumble better like bit of a boring things talk about we don't need clips of it the stats back that up drops uh a little bit smaller for a like traditional feature back so I think he's more of a running back two running back three but again going in the fourth round isn't a problem the reason why I think he went in the fourth because he's got better film like I think he's a better natural Runner than some of the guys that went ahead of him in this class is the lack of explosive speed um I think Tommy uh Lawler at La NFL tweeted this out and I've got in the article at Clemson he was there for three years he had one play um that went for more than 50 yards now that's not everything big plays are not the be and end all of being a running back and how many 50 yard runs do you really get in the NFL not many but in terms of like receiving and rushing normally you expect like really good running backs to have quite a few explosive plays in college because um The Field's wider you do get more um sort of let's be honest more points I think in general than you do in in the NFL so one play of 50 plus yards is a little bit concerning so I know there's a comment here people are going to talk to me about about how he tested in the 40 again sometimes testing doesn't match he his testing was also a 445 he the comment asked if Shipley ran didn't Shipley run a 43 uh said Shady ran a 445 and he broke away quite a bit in his career for I think there's two things there I mean what Shipley ran a 445 but a 445 when Shady played is not the same as a 445 now H when if you look if you do draft stuff and you go look at like relative athletic scores it's almost jarring when you see a defensive player that isn't above an 8.0 relative Athletic score because defenses are getting smaller and faster so is offense so that's one part of it it's a bit of a different era even though it's the same generation you know we watch Shady we're gonna watch Shipley but to the athletic testing isn't always indicative of how they play and you have guys where their testing doesn't match their tape all the time time and I think that's the case for shiple there's no doubt that his long speed just isn't quite there and H you know we could show some plays I didn't I had one that I cut left on The Cutting floor but there was one where he it absolutely should have been a touchdown and he gets run down from behind and you see that on on the tape from Shipley yeah Shane I've got that in my article by the way while I'm talking if you want to quickly grab it just to show it um B it's a fair comment the testing is you'd think he would be better but I'm telling you like I mean I'm not we're not making up things number one watch the tape and he doesn't breakway plays the stats backed up as I said one play above 50 yards um he just didn't do it and he he did he didn't look like he had another gear the other thing about R testing or Raz testing you want to call it as you've said they're normally above eight these days because of how much they prepare for this he was ranked if you want to look 927 in the 40 808 in the 20 yard so he got quicker as time went on but how many runs do you get any fair with get sort of 20 yards uh to get going so he didn't like explode away immediately um yeah you've got the clip on the screen FR I'm watching I did see someone reply to me sending he sort of stumbles which is why he doesn't fully go and I get that but he's up to speed and it's not there and it's not again it's a really good run it's a very useful play in fact I wonder if that is the 50r play that um does he break 50 no he doesn't does he's slightly shorter because he starts on the 14 I think he's tackled around the 20 um he says now that's that's the 50e play oh yeah it might be just or thereabouts um so that is you can see there the Breakaway if you're watching on YouTube if you're not um check the bleeding green article out and it's it's on there but to be honest it's not a rocket science player to break down he just can't do it um last comment then we'll move on from Shipley overall um this year I do not expect him to be ahead of Kenny gamewell I think Kenny gamew Well's a better player than people give him credit for I think people get frustrated with him because they were fascinated by Swift and Penny last year and he was taking snaps off them I think he will eventually probably take his place as a running back too if he can deal with his drops and his fumbles but I think he's probably more a running back fre maybe this year maybe towards the end of the year I think the only thing he has in his favor is that I haven't seen Kenny gell one out run outside Zone much and if Kenny gamewell can't do that then I think it's possible it's possible that shiply immediately becomes the running back too but I'm not if I was a fantasy guy I wouldn't really be Rush to pick him up if Barkley does go down for a game personally how about you shame yeah same Kenny gainwell is a better pass blocker and I think that's going to be the bread and butter he's a better pass blocker and he doesn't have the drop issues that will Shipley has at times and so I think there's going to be a earning the trust thing you know we mentioned the fumbles you can't have the negative plays you got to you got to earn the trust of your coaching staff and I think the big places you get Negative plays is is allowing sacks fumbling the ball and dropping the ball when we bring it to you on checkdowns and I think Shipley will do all three of those things at a higher rate than gainwell so I don't expect him to be what running back two to start the year I think he'll get on the field and I think you know we also didn't mention he's a good kick returner and so you might see him on special teams I think he's going to be a game day active for sure but I would expect gainwell to out snap him at least early in the year right that's how'd you pronounce the second guy shame how'd you pronounce the first name of it is annias Smith and before we talk about anas Smith I will just say special teams is a theme from this Eagles draft class in general there's a lot of guys that I think teams are not really sure what the new rules how big of a part is going to play you maybe want multiple returners um I think Shipley is someone that can return and uh Smith is also someone that we're going to talk about now so Shane to start us off as always I think this is the most interesting player in the Eagles draft class I've said it um what are the basics or numbers etc etc on Smith starts off okay so annias Smith is 59 and 38 which is eth percentile among wide receivers he is 190 pounds which is 24th percentile if you look at his spider chart everything is just stacked on top of each other in the middle except for his 92nd percentile bench press and I always think spider charts like that are fascinating if you look at his relative Athletic score he's only got a seven .36 he did not have you know elite 40 times in fact the only things that are green on his spider or on his R chart are his 21 reps on the bench press and his three cone he's extremely small uh he's not really explosive when it comes to athletic testing now if we talk about the stats uh last season and again this is among this is among 35 receivers who had 70 or more targets he ranked 33rd and yards after catch per reception at 6.7 he was sixth in drop percentage dropping only 1.9% of his targets and he was 12th and Miss tackles forced at 20 and then just overall his versatility if you look at his snaps throughout his fiveyear career at Texas A&M he took 227 snaps aligned in the back field 1,364 in the slot 419 at the boundary and 338 snaps on team so again Johnny has an article up on annias Smith his article for trod hasn't posted yet it will soon but you can go check that out but Johnny what stuck out to you when you watch Smith he's very fun that's my basic analysis is he's such a fun player um like basically he you know when you use the frame like Swiss army knife like he can do everything whether players like that sometimes just don't work because they don't do everything well but he really can do you mentioned the um the snaps like he's a running back he's a receiver he's that classic player that I think the league is going towards I think the 49ers as always are sort of taking the lead in this where he like blurs the lines between is he a back is he a receiver he's a little bit of both but I think the pro so he is much more of a receiver in the back he is a receiver with sort of running back skills on things like jet we jet sweeps even um screens like yards after the catch make Defenders Miss like he looks like a classic Kansas City's Chiefs pick in that sense you can imagine everyone going mad if Andy redrafted him not a explosive long speed guy although it's funny because he has snaps where he burns by defensive backs and when you see his 4 time and you see shipy 4 time and you think testing's weird um but B short area quickness I I describe him as quicker rather than fast which means 10 yards is which is more important than long Speed Most of the time as well um his rot running is the thing that really impressed me so two things really surprised me I expected him to be like you know the fast slot fun guy jet s everyone's got that guy like Malachi KY was my guy in this year's class um actually he's more polished than I thought which is why I'm a little surprised he went where he did and I'll talk about why when we gets the weaknesses but like he's good at the top of his roots he can run out he exposed out of his break he has some really nice nuances to his route running um there's a really good clip that I don't know if we'll show today but if noce in the article from Ben fennel where he's running like a deep over route or I said route the amount of times the American phrase I go back and forth on that all the time Shane over root I'm going to stay British stay true to myself where his head and his neck his shoulders are all like leaning towards the inside and mean he cuts it outside and you see like nuances that you want to see from him also though he's really small he is really tough so special teams experience blocking experience like extremely willing blocker extremely willing to take hits in the middle of the field can hang on some difficult catches like good contact balance like I think people describe was like a budget dvo Samuel and he is a little bit like that um he's sort of he's just a fun player to watch in general um I'm talking about how much funny is Shan do you want to queue up some of the clips that you have so we can talk about uh some of the things that he does uh really well because if you haven't watched any of his highlights I do recommend going to watch him someone of my article compared him like a golden tape type and I like that comparison quite a lot as well so talk to me about a few of these flips so he's not burner by any means but he is slippery and he can change directions really quickly and so this play I just think is so fun he's running a Crossing route here and you see him catch this ball and he's all his momentum is carrying him to the sideline and he's going to be able to get up field instead of going out of bounds but watch the move that he puts on Defenders on the sideline here just that side juke like that's all over his film he loves to get that guy running at him sideways and then he's just able to Juke back to the middle of the field and you know he makes what three guys miss here and is able to get into the End Zone on a play that he probably should have been down inside the 10 and that's what you see a lot from him it's not running away from guys it's just that slipperiness in the open field that was one of the biggest things that really jumped out to me watching his stuff shank I just say as well um when you think of the player in your head that we're talking about you probably think of like what I think of bubble screens jet sweeps quick Slants um he runs a a lot of Deep Over which I think is quite common and then he runs a lot of really good corner like good Corner routes Post Corner like that's his best route I think is that intermediate out and we know that Herz throws a beautiful uh Corner rout probably herz's best ball actually I think that intermediate out um the Eagles run a lot of like levels or three level stretch plays or they have done in the past whatever they contines to do so we'll see but Herz frow is a really nice like intermediate out ball and I think that's his best route he's not just like a short player he's not just like good in the quick game he can run some intermediate routes as well like you see him at the senior ball running like the deep in for dagger um which is like a 15 20 yard in breing route basically and he like Dives low and catches it like he's a little bit of he's like a little bit good at everything um any other Clips you want to show before I talk about why I think he may have fallen outside of the top three rounds because the way we talking about him makes it sound like he should have gone a lot earlier yeah yeah I've got a couple more here I I actually have four clips of him so my second one you would think a guy this profile would struggle into contact and he really doesn't he's good this is him in the slot here and he's gonna take a huge shot at the catch Point here now he is not a contested catch receiver but he is not afraid to elevate over the middle of the field and and take a hit and he hangs on to the ball and you see that in his drop numbers I mean that's a big hit for a 59 guy to take in the back as he's catching the ball and he just hangs on to it and so he's a tremendously tough player I think he's reliable over the middle of the field he's really good at sitting down in zone coverage and then you've got his punt return ability now his punt return ability is a mixed bag because I'll show this one and there's another one I'm not going to show and there's a common theme in these and the common theme is that he muffs the punt and then recovers it and returns it for a touchdown and you really don't want to see you know your punt returner putting the ball in the turf much less twice in one season but both times he stays with it and he runs it back for a touchdown and he SE or excuse me this one doesn't go for a touchdown but watch the number of guys that he makes Miss up the field here he has another when he returns for a touchdown but he's up the sideline that Juke to the middle of the field one guy misses two guys three guys miss and you know it slows him down enough that he gets run down from behind but he's very Dynamic and I think you could see him used as a punt returner with the new kick return rules maybe you see him him used that way too now the last one I want to show is we talked about his deep threat his speed you know he's more short area quickness but I just want you to watch this rep and see if you notice anything about it this is going to be a touchdown uh to him he's running up field here and I just want to you tell me if you notice something on this clip here and the cuts kind of made off screen but all of a sudden he's five yards def behind the defensive back and Johnny do you know why I showed this particular clip is it because of who he beats Shane on the on the route it is that defensive back that he's five yards behind I'll pause it here and you can catch it that's Brian Branch drafted by the Lions fell way too far and had a tremendous rookie season and that's an IAS Smith just burning Brian Branch who is at his best in the slot out of the slot for a deep touchdown so that's a nice little gem from two years ago so he can get vertical uh but you know that's not necessarily his game but I I just thought that was a funny one yeah I I included that in the article it's a bit unfair on Brian Branch because it's such a uh hard cover when you're in the slot and you can go left right um right we've sang uh Smith's Praises for a he was a fifth round pick wasn't he he wasn't the fourth fourth was Shipley so if you're wondering like well how did this guy dropped because there's a few comments coming in as well about sort of how much fun he is Antonio who watched him a lot Texas a Texas um A&M talking about how good he is um and you're right like when you turn on the film he looks that good anony also saying if you watch his highlights he looks awesome and I agree so reasons why right I have a couple of theories about this um the obvious answer that you feel me to give me is that he's a slot only guy I think of the next level people going to hate this comparison but his college film is a little bit Jaylen rager and remember that jayen raer was a first round pick by the way so the college film was fun but the problem with those guys are sometimes they get for outside and they can't play outside um I don't think he's going to run through physical contacts like I think physical Corners that can press him get their hands on him he's going to really struggle so I think he's going to play in the slot only um as we mentioned he's not a burner so when you look at teams who have like I always talk about like the criteria they have sort of like uh numbers that they want to aim for each position to limit sort of risk he's a 455 guy at 190 there are certain teams that are going to say straight away you know what we don't want a 455 guy who's 190 just not saying that's the right way of doing it but teams have these like sort of criteria I'm going talk about actually more of that with Trotter coming up next so I think he's a slot only receiver I think he's been injured in the past and he's very small when you always worry about guys that smaller who can only play on a slot I think the two big reasons why I think he fail are um basically the modern NFL doesn't like slot only players I listen to a really interesting discussion with uh my one of my favorite podcasts the read optional with aie Connelly um and whoever else is the co-host on there talking about um oh who's the guy who came out in the first round lab makoni or second round this year basically talking about his value only works if he can play outside and we spoke about this pre-draft as well is that teams don't like having slot only guys because they have so many players that can Le up in the slot so if you stick Devonte Smith uh AJ Brown and uh Smith out there um you're going to expect that he's going to be in the slot their four teams can project where Brown and Devonte Smith are going to line up it just makes it more predictable um if you compare that someone like Paris Campbell who's probably going to start in a slot this year for the Eagles he's not 59 190 like I can't remember what Paris Campbell weighed in at the combine but I'm pretty sure he is a lot bigger than you would uh think as I'm frantically Googling it I'm sure he was like 61 um 6 fo 205 so bigger and that means he can potentially play outside so he gives you more versatility and a lot of teams don't like having slot only players because it limits what you can do offensive um sort of design wise the second reason is blocking wide receivers have a massive part in the Run game these days so if if you ever watch the Rams they're the absolute best at this Cooper cup and Thea are unbelievably good at blocking in the Run game they have a lot of Clips where they run jro and they actually use their wide receiver to Motion in and block the C Gap like you can't do that he's a he wants to be a good blocker Smith and he tries really hard but he's 59 190 you're not going to really get him taking on linebackers and he tries and he has effort but he's not nothing to do with how exciting he as a player I think all the positives we said are true I just think smaller guys that aren't burners like when you're talking about like your wories who go in the first round running like in the 4 tws when you draft smaller guys they need to be exceptional at something and I don't think he's a burner I think having a slot only player limits your versatility and I'm not saying he will definitely be slot only but I think if you play him out outside and he's going to start getting pressed by Corners I think he might struggle there's a few clips of him at the signia bow where he struggled with physicality as well and I think blocking wise in the Run game is a big deal so that's like my sort of Summary of why I think he fell considering how funny is in saying that I think this year he'll be a special teams and a sort of minimal touch guy you can use and I think potentially he could even take that wide receiver free job of Paris Campbell this year or next year and could be a really handy special team who's your wide receiver three wide receiver four and won't kill you like quz Watkins did um this past year so I really like the pick I just think it's fair for balance to point out he is a fifth round pick and there are reasons why receivers like him don't go as early as maybe we'd like yeah he also doesn't separate well against man coverage uh he's really good against Zone like sitting down in those soft spots but I didn't think he separate super well against man although if a team is giving you man coverage you have three guys in AJ Brown Devonte Smith and Dallas SCD who generate great matchups against man and so he would be your fourth option at best maybe your fifth option at best if you think about Jaylen Herz being able to run against man coverage as well but ultimately an is Smith he he cannot his ceiling in the NFL is a wide receiver three like he cannot there there is no chance that I'm going to get old takes exposed this someday because he's a wide receiver one for a team he just can't his his skill set his body type it doesn't have wide receiver one or even really two ability and that's part of why he falls if you're going to roll the dice you want to roll the dice most teams on a guy that hey if he hits It's pukaa you know and that's not an ni Smith but he brings intriguing potential as a wide receiver three especially for a team that has guys clearly ahead of him in the pecking order and so I I think that's part of why he fell down but why I'm excited to see him play yeah if you look at someone like final point then we'll get on stroter if you look at someone like Maliki Cory who I liked I think you can make an argument that Smith is a lot more um polished as a player than Cory was um C's 511 210 it sort of is to an extent like you can develop a 511 210 player into a starting wide receiver and he can impact you as a blocker he might be able to take snaps outside when you're 59 190 you're just sort of limited as a player and at the next level he's just not going to get the as many opportunities however low touch explosive players are important and if he can add one or two explosive plays every three or four weeks um that's sometimes who he need from a uh a free pick I think he will make the team and I think he is like a proper player he's not just like a gadget guy who can just run fast like I think he's a proper receiver who understands how to play the position um speaking of players who know how to play the position Shane little transition there shall we as we've gone on ages as we always do should we talk about Jeremiah Trot who might be the most interesting draft pick from this entire uh draft class so give me the lowdown on why he fell because all you need to do is look at his measurements and you'll be able to tell why he fell yeah look at that transition by the way that segue that's great so jermiah troter Jr drafted with the 155th pick uh fifth round draft pick is 6 foot even which is 10th percentile 228 lbs which is 11th percentile with 312 inch arms that is 25th percentile if you go look at his relative Athletic score he did not receive a score because he didn't complete enough testing he didn't do the jumps or the 40 however he did do the agilities and they weren't that good a 44 shuttle a 7.13 three cone and so if you want to talk about why Trotter fell he is undersized and he is not an elite athlete at the position in fact he's a below average athlete so we go to his stats Trotter Jr had 28 pressures on 102 pass rush reps this season that's a 27 and a half percent pressure rate and so he's good as a block or he's good as a pass rusher there's a specific rep I was going to save this I'm just going to show it now there's a specific pass rush rep against Notre Dame that I just love and I tweeted it before the draft I tweeted it on draft night I tweeted it again it's just incredible because he's going to line up as a Blitzer and the running back has him all the way and he just makes the guy Miss in a phone booth and gets the sack and so he's tremendously talented as a Blitzer and of course we get the axe at throw down there but just watch this one more time and you tell me there's not a use for that from a guy like fangio who loves to Blitz his linebackers so we know fangio loves to send aine L backer he loves to drop out an edge rusher and so you think about that he's going to be good in that role however H he's he's a poor tackler he had a 16.3% Miss tackle rate this last season and then per PFF he allowed 24 receptions on 27 targets for 224 yards and a touchdown with two interceptions and two pass breakups and you ask how could he only have three incompletions when targeted but have two in intercept ions and two pass breakups and the answer is I don't know somebody at PFF must have miscounted but per their stats 24 of 27 but he had two interceptions and two pass breakups so uh fun little Easter egg there in the PFF charting Johnny your article for troter is not out yet but it is written I've had a preview of it what are your some what are your some your strengths when you look at trod Jr firstly two weeks in a row we're friend shade at PFF we' got to got to be careful we love their work just for certain things not for other things um right so strengths for Trot firstly already got a comment coming in about this from Anthony um I've put that as my number one strength like bloodline in football absolutely matters if you are telling me that football like bloodline doesn't matter just literally look at some of the best players we've seen you got the the two Manning brothers as the most famous one but obviously we've got Marvin Harrison in this draft class like of course it matters you're being bought up in a in a culture of football where you're probably watching film from a young age and guess what it's no surprise that his ability to key and diagnose and his awareness is just exceptionally good his instincts are brilliant uh when coming downhill he can read the play out really quickly um he can close quickly um he is very small and being very small is a problem but there's also benefits he can use that to his Advantage I'm going to show a clip of this shortly where he basically avoids blocks rather than takes them on because that's the way he plays and he can run sideline sideline he's quick enough in Pursuit I don't really worry about his speed a great deal I think in zone cover coverage is really good I think this is where his awareness comes in and why fangio probably enjoyed the film a lot because I think you can definitely teach him to sort of play in the Fano style where I think when he reads the quarterback's eyes I think he's really strong I think it would take time as everyone does to adjust to this defense but he's strong in uh Zone coverage interception numbers you mentioned are really good his blitzing is extremely good the Eagles have now got two linebackers in the Kobe Dean and TR who maybe are too small to play together but if the KOB Dean misses time which he always does um you could easily have trotto replacing his pass rushing skill set so I really like him like I really like him um physical aggressive just looks the part of a linebacker um before we get into why he felt and I think it's fair to point out the Eagles also let him fall a while because they had a massive need at linebacker and didn't touch him until um day three and late in day three as well um you've got another clip I know lined up where he reads play action um which is an awesome play said you want to talk about this one and I'll talk you through one of the other ones that I sent to you uh before Shane yeah so let's just roll this play and I want you to watch Trotter and I want you to watch the linebacker next to him and how quickly they just compare their reaction time to realizing this is play action and going from run defense to pass defense and so I'll just roll the clip here you see how much quicker Trotter is to react to that and that is a really tough play to read out because you got play I mean it's it's essentially the little RPO play action that the Eagles like to run where you scrape somebody across the formation and you try to roll out and throw the ball to that guy and Trotter picks this guy up immediately he takes like one step and then he's out on the receivers like there's something wrong a receiver is running the opposite direction that everything else is going and he just picks up on that and he's Off to the Races and when you look at the linebacker next to him and that reaction time and yeah they've got different responsibilities but it takes that other linebacker a couple more steps to really plant and start to drop into his past stth and that's what you see on his film I think that play is just a good representative sample of his football IQ he's not the fastest guy but he's almost always the first guy to react correctly to a play shame we've we've watched that play about 500 times the past three years and no one ever reads it like no one covers that play he diagnoses that so quickly that's film study that's preparation um do you want to bring out the clip the first one sent you uh before we started as well so when we talk about being small it means you have to play a certain way so an Old School 250b linebacker would go charging into a pulling guard take him head on um and then blow out the Run play Trot can't do that so basically he has to win by being small so it's it is a problem but you can also use if you see this clip here it shows a better angle sh I think after this from the um uh backside where he just doesn't want to take on there's a left guard I believe who's trying to get to the second level and get towards him and he just makes him Miss but that's hard it looks easy but he if you watch his eyes he's looking at the running back the whole time he's diagnosing that so he's almost got a natural feel for the guard coming because he doesn't look at the guard barely at all because he's constantly got his eyes on the running back and that's quite an open block as well the guard's got like quite a lot of space there it's not the most difficult Block in the world and trotto's not good enough to take him on like trotto is not going to BL the the guard he's too small like 100 pound guards 310 NFL guards are going to basically win against him and we'll get into that and we talk about his weaknesses but for him to win he has to win like that and if you read the play quickly you can avoid the offensive lineman I think he could legitimately start like I don't he won't start this year but I think he could and I think he could be okay like I know he went late and I know I shouldn't bet on him being starter NFL teams ignored him because of his size he went to Fifth and he should be a backup but I don't think you can teach instincts and there's just something about watching him play where I just think he gets it and I might be wrong and he might flame out because he might too small um he might miss too many tackles and I think the tackles is the one thing that I worry about um have you got any other Clips Shane of positives or do you want me to talk about the sort of weaknesses no let's get into the weaknesses so sorry my screen started to hang there was looking at one my Clips um you've already mentioned most of them to be fair uh the most obvious one is he's too light um basically that's the big problem and we mentioned about this with Smith lastly NFL teams will have set criteria and a lot of teams just won't touch a linebacker at his size like he would just be off their board and um his biggest issue is taking on offensive line at the point of attack again I go back to that 250 pound Old School linebacker like he does not get off blocks strotter he if you get your hands on him he's in trouble um because of that I think he has to read everything so quickly he can sometimes be too over aggressive I think because he's almost overcompensated for his lack of size so he has to read things quicker than a normal say size linebacker does and I think that means he can sometimes be a little bit overaggressive he can overrun the play um there was one play that I didn't like which when you watch it um I sent it to you as well Shane if you queue it up now where basically he gets blocked by a wide receiver and you might be thinking oh that's a disaster like linebackers getting blocked by receivers and he's not just like blocked a bit like he's pretty much taken out the play and then you realize that wide receivers these days I mean look at Johnny Wilson a bigger than him so it's no surprise that a linebacker wi receiver when we if you had said that 10 years ago you'd think that was mental like 250 260 pound linebackers trotto is not 250 pound he's not 260 pound he's going to be smaller for example um I mean 6 foot 228 is not big like we we're talking pretty small so he will face receivers that are bigger than 6 foot 228 that will be out to block him let alone offensive guards centers the a the athletes we see on the offensive line position these days so his game is going to come down to two things can he diagnose quickly enough and can he avoid blocks because he's not going to get off them I don't believe he's suddenly going to start like shedding blocks and taking on guards at the point of attack anytime soon I think his game will come down to can he avoid them can the Eagles keep him clean with their big guys up front because they've got a very undersized linebacker core so I think they obviously are relying on their uh defensive lines keep him clean but I do really like him like my gut I said this in the article hasn't been posted yet but I said my gut feeling is that I don't like speculating that fifth round picks will start but I think he will either maybe not this year but next year I think he could have starting linebacker potential and let's be honest we know this organization doesn't value linebackers and if Deon white goes next year and maybe one other like there's a chance he could be sort of chunked up a dep chart pretty quickly because the odds of him competing with a Big Money free agent or first round pick next year are very unlikely so I think the Eagles almost need him to work as well I would just say like scheme wise I worry a little bit that he's in a crowded room with smaller linebackers as well and whether that will limit his behind someone like um Ben vanum who's a bit who can take on guards a little bit better than him I don't know um but I do like the player uh I've sort of rambled on a little bit so what do you I don't think I've actually ever heard your opinion Shane properly do you like agree with me on Trotter to finish up this one or do you think I maybe a little bit too let's just say in love with the film with his dad that I've watched uh in the past no I I'm with you um on most of what you say about him I'm look I had him number 73 overall on my big board and so I think he was great value where he was drafted I get every concern he's small he doesn't have I would say he has average to below average slightly below average athleticism and when you combine that with being small that's a problem but he tries to make up for it with that IQ I think particularly for the Eagles who just have nothing at linebacker I could you could see him come in and make an impact and the concerns are there he he has a weak base against the run and you talked about his inability to Anchor against offensive lineman and we showed the clip where he avoids the guard and that works sometimes but athletic lineman can catch that move and just use it to push him out of the Gap even easier and when you go from college to the NFL everybody gets more athletic and so I am very concerned about that I'm concerned that Devin white is not a good run Defender and Kobe Dean is small and Jeremiah Trotter is small and I'm worried the Eagles will just be totally exposed by the Run game this year and so you're going to have to rely on your interior defensive line to keep guys clean know by the way Fletcher Cox just retired and so there's concerns there when you think holistically for the Eagles but you know maybe you're helped by the fact that you've got a cydney brown who's good coming downhill you've got a Chanty Gardner Johnson you know you think back to last week's episode when we talked about maybe playing Cooper to Jee in the slot because he's such a good run Defender and there's just trade-offs there if you're gonna go so light at linebacker you might have to put a guy that's not as fluid in the slot so he can help set that edge you might have to have your safeties come flying downhill a little quicker so you're going to have to trust your corners on an island a little more so it's all given take and you know Trotter is just part of what the Eagles have done at linebacker and that is be small and take guys late and not really invest premium assets into the position I think that his skill set is remarkably similar to noobe Deans both really smart players both good blitzers both undersized but decent in coverage and then would NCO Dean have worked I don't know ncoe Dean hasn't stayed healthy and so we haven't been able to see that but I think he's good insurance for ncoe Dean I think out of the two of them combined you can get maybe you can get replacement level linebacker play which would be a huge Improvement so the last thing I would note on Trotter and I mentioned it earlier he had that high Miss tackle rate 16.3% last season and a lot of it is because he leaves his feet to make tackles in the the open field he's not a sound tackler he's a hard hitter and you see some highlight reps where he knocks guys backwards but down in down out he's not the most steady tackler that you'll see either yeah I think when you go through the weaknesses it doesn't sound good like if it doesn't work out there's a reason why he fell um but I keep going back to it's very easy to look at what the weaknesses when you actually go and watch him play like the instincts of there the ability to diagnose what's being run is there like I think there's a lot more positives and negatives and I'm I'm genuinely frilled that Eagles got him when they did um I had him like you I think you may have even been slightly higher in I don't rank players but I had him like round round three-ish round three to four um but I would have taken him in the third round um funny enough if you just bump up or Swap trotto and uh JX H um but it's all about upside and you can totally understand why uh Trot fell and I do think a lot of teams will honestly have just taken him off their board and yeah saw that comment coming as well it is absolutely not about size um it is not just about that instincts are way more important of a linebacker position and I also think speed is overrated because like instincts equal speed as well because if you read things quicker you get there quicker anyway um J is just not a great overall profile but if you want to bet like I am on instincts and the abilities to play the position and I am absolutely including his dad in this as well by the way I know I shouldn't but I just can't help when I'm taking into analysis that he has been bought up in a family that probably talks about football and the linebacker position all the time and if you're telling me that stuff doesn't matter I just I don't think it's true I think it absolutely will make a difference the upbringing that he's had and I imagine he's been around the linebacker position for a long time and will be a coach's dream uh to work with so yeah overall I like actually a Shipley I wasn't a big fan of but the other two picks and Shipley's fine I'm not anti- Shipley I just think I would have gone in a slightly different direction but the other two picks um I really enjoyed that we broke down today um so yeah I think overall it was a good uh it was a pretty good start to day three for the Eagles all right well that is going to about do it for this episode we will be back next week probably doing the last three draft picks we might come up with something else and put that one off another week but we'll let you guys know um as always thank you for joining uh all ratings and reviews are greatly appreciated we had a new rating come in on Apple iTunes a festar rating that said uh BGN radio going dark was devastating but finding out some of the shows banded together to start a new feed was a breath of fresh air so excited to see Shane Johnny and John back on the air and I'm enjoying the new birds of the round table too can't wait to see what you guys cook up for a post game show gobird so uh thank you for that rating and review if you have not left us a review we would greatly appreciate it to help get the feed out there to new people uh we will have a new episode from John going through the 2024 season and his Eagles Memories episode later this week Johnny and I will also be recording a mailbag uh we're going to do a monthly mailbag that will be exclusive to our patreon members and you can head over to patreon.com onthe Shan page to subscribe we have a $3 and A5 tier with various perks including an ad free version of this podcast we have a monthly mailbag when we get into the season you guys have a little bit of creative control over the podcast where you can help us pick players to Spotlight on the show and we have a Discord 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any way you can uh much appreciated absolutely thank you Antonio and Anthony you guys both chiming in here in the live comments thanks for joining the show today we will catch you guys next week for a new episode of on the Shane page go Birds [Music]