Episode #400 - Interview with Bachelor Clayton Echard

this man it is Clayton Eckard Clayton how you doing hey Steve how you doing I'm doing great back home with the family in Missouri uh it's nice and calm here yeah I was GNA say finally some calm in your life after the craziness that's been the last 13 months um I guess my first let's hope it's not the quiet before the storm you know that's the one thing I you know I it's just there's so much to get to with you so we'll just kind of I'm I'm trying to take it in like eras here of hey you know part about the case and then part about your time on The Bachelor and then the mental health aspect of it but just kind of right now where you're at God how how are you right now now that the the Jud the judge has decided and given her decision after 13 months of going through just [ __ ] basically where you at right now I I'm H in a really great spot um I I just had this conversation with my family last night um getting that ruling uh just was like the last weight that was lifted off of me um and you know I had I was working all through this uh but it weighed on me naturally I mean it was just there was stressors from work there was stressors from this situation and so I was past my threshold um or operating maybe right at my threshold of what I could tolerate um so with all this now going in my favor uh I I um I just feel like I have a renewed sense of energy um I feel more confident resilient um and so I'm feeling that now I'm waking up I'm like I can do this if I've went through it all of this what can I go through so I do feel like it's just built me up um and yeah it's just one less thing I have to worry about so I'm in a great spot I know you said obviously you've been working through all of this but there were a lot of times during this last 13 months where I know you've lost out on opportunities whether it was in the real estate industry or something else can you talk about how your work was affected and the opportunities that you did lose like specific examples of things that you lost money that you may have lost out on yeah I lost um a couple brand deals um where I had them in writing where they said listen in light of the allegations um we're going to forgo this partnership um and so that was more than a few thousand dollars there um I lost out on I had to stop my speaking because I had a few people respond back most people just never responded but a few said Hey listen in light of what's going on um we can't bring him into the schools to speak because the parents even if it's not true they're going to ask you know why are we bringing in a guy that's currently facing an allegation um so that I completely pivoted and just cut out my speaking engagements because all of the the schools were going to Google me right away like let's see what this guy who this guy is um and then uh the real estate I just it's hard because there's a lot of opportunity I probably lost that I just can't account for um I would you know I do a lot of cold calling and I would um you know have people that were interested and say yeah I'd like to work with you send me over your information um and I would just be very you know anxious at that point because I'd send over my info and I'm like they're gonna naturally Google me because they're goingon to see if my if I have good reviews as a realtor you know what I've done and I'm like they'll type in Clayton neard and it's just gonna boom pop up and it's going to be um you know Clay neard accused of impregnating this woman blah blah blah so uh it was really hard even if things I didn't lose opportunities because of this uh anything that just went dead you know radio silence I assumed had something to do with this you know when this story first broke in September when the article came out in the sun you and I spoke I think probably either next day or two days after and we had spent a good 90 minutes or so on the phone and you know I just asked you flat out like what what's going on on here because when you read the story when it first came out on the sun there's parts of it they're like okay it's very possible and then there's parts of it you're like wait something isn't adding up here it's a little bit too much it's way too detailed and did he really say these things in text messages and stuff like that so obviously I just went straight to you I went straight to the source and you know uh you I think the one thing and the reason why I've always believed you in this is because your story has never changed from the very get-go like two days after you're like Steve I never had sex with this woman period end of story and it's like I you know it's just crazy what she's been through and this is and this is still we're talking September I mean there's so much stuff still to come that we had no idea about um but in September when we spoke and one theme that I think a lot of people even forget and I hate to remind you of this story but in April of 2022 a girl named Sasha on Tik Tok says Hey and this is when you were with suie still hey I had sex with Clayton last night in New York and you to deal with this whole thing over you know it only lasted a couple days because it was proven that she just I don't know what her deal was but she clearly didn't have sex with you you were in Arizona at the time you proved you were and now that I think about it more I think I know you're answer but I want to hear it from you do you think this story that made the news made the entertainment sites out there do you think this played a role in Laura targeting you do you think she absolutely knew about this story and is like this is a guy I might be able to trick or play this on that's a good question um I think that I will I'm not sure I honestly I couldn't tell you what my intuition is saying and whether or not I know she targeted me do I think that she targeted me because she saw um that I was an easy target uh from the and I had a previous accusation and I wasn't a well-liked bachelor so did she weigh this all into account and say there's a good chance that I'm going to be able to get the public opinion to sway in my favor um I don't I don't want to give her that much credit I don't think she was that that smart um but I do believe that um she probably saw you my time on the show she saw how open I was about my mental health struggles how I'm a people pleaser and likely saw it as this guy um you know is so focused on his public Persona um and he's easily manipulated that I can likely um take him to a place where I'm going to be able to fully control this man um and that's what she tried to do so I do think sometimes like being vulnerable and open and saying here's my weaknesses you're basically giving aggressors your the formula to to to beat you you're like hey this is what I struggle with and so they go right at that and so that's why she kept threatening I'm gonna go public and I'm gonna show people how terrible you are um and I was like just admit you lied and Dro this and I'll move on I'm not trying to make this a spectacle but that was her big piece that she was like once I launch this it's going to destroy him because she knew that I was a people pleaser likely from all the interviews I've done um and said how much and so she knew thought that that would destroy me so I definitely think that she factored that in and said this is somebody I can probably control and for those that don't remember the Sasha story from 2022 this Tik Tok girl this isn't even a situation that you were a part of it's not like oh she's accusing me something that I never did you never even saw this woman you weren't even in the same state somehow some way this woman was tricked into thinking that she had sex with Clay Necker and on a given night in SE in April of 2022 when she never did so this wasn't something that you put yourself in a situation because some people are like gosh this guy just keeps putting himself in situations no you didn't do anything with the so no and I would even go on that one my intuition tells me I mean she targeted me because um she knew I I believe fully that she was prepping for this um and knew that Susie was in LA filming a wedding and I had not posted on my socials the night before so I think full well she was probably waiting on a moment where we were going to be separated and I hadn't posted on my social so there was no track record of where I was and I don't she did definitely didn't account for the fact that I was going to pull out location services on my phone which you know thankfully I saw in an article like four who knows four years AG before that where I just saw that your phone's tracking you Non-Stop and so it popped in my head I went to my phone and I'm like there it is um and that was you know what what basically exonerated me um but I don't she wasn't anticipating that but I definitely think that she was like here's I'm gonna go ahead and make this accusation now because he had no he didn't post and show anyone where he was at the previous day I'm gonna be able to get away with this so I definitely think she that was a very targeted um attack on me as well uh just thankfully I had a little you know a little trick up my sleeve yeah it was just it was a wild 48 hours because you again had to prove something that didn't happen and it's almost like how do you prove something that didn't happen and you actually could by showing your location and just I get like you said I don't think she ever thought in a million years that you were going to be able to pull your location servfaces up but we when we we talk about the Laura case just overall I know that people whether people are invested like the justice for Clayton crew just knows every detail about it and then there are people on the periphery that you know maybe watch Dave's videos and maybe have heard me talk about it but didn't follow along daily for the last nine months 10 months but have an idea and you know people are one of the questions that I got asked me a lot was like how could this case last so long like a woman claims she's pregnant Clayton says I never had sex with her how in the world this drag on for a year what's what's like the summary you can give of that the short answer of how this took a year to prove that somebody was pregnant or not uh this because this was a woman that has done this before that knew how to drag out a case by avoiding doing the things that would basically put the stress quickly which is pro provide proof of pregnancy um she did everything in her power to avoid that and you know she took the initial I call it HG test because that's what it is at this point I mean it's a it's it's known as a pregnancy test for most people but not her so she she takes the initial test and she thinks this is enough to to get him to convince him that I am pregnant um and of course when I first saw it I'm like well I again I I I said this I'm either dealing with the craziest woman I've ever met in my life or this person's telling the truth you know that that's that's where I was at and I gave her the benefit of the doubt because I thought there's no way that I'm dealing with someone that's that's this mentally insane um and then I found out I was but uh I really gave her every chance to be like well maybe she's telling the truth I mean I not I still think she might have tried to trap me somehow um but like I think she's you know she's being honest and so I questioned it because I just my mind could not wrap around the fact that someone could go to this level um but then what happened was is she thought oh well here the test here I'll take I'll take she said she took 11 tests and and that even rubb me rubbed me the wrong way I thought why would you take 11 tests it's almost like you're trying to continue to make sure that you are still popping positive for HCG so I thought that was odd I'm like after about two or three tests wouldn't you stop because it's like I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant so she did some things that just were fishy and then she said of course right away well we got to wait nine weeks for an ultrasound so I said okay that makes sense so stop talking me to you know talking to me until then well she wouldn't stop and then nine months you know nine weeks later she I'm like all right you gonna schedule it and then she said oh I'm fearful for my life that you're going to come and hurt me so I'm gonna not let you know when I take the test so she then went off the grid then she claimed she took it I said well then send me the ultrasound and she was like you don't you know let's meet up in person and I said no I'm not meeting with you in person so she's like well then I'm not going to send it to you um so she oh and then she said I'll I'll show you it if you date me for a week so it kept the dating stipulation was wrapped into everything it was like date me for a week or I'm gonna I'm gonna have this kid then it was date me for a week and I'll show you the ultrasound then it was date me for a week and I'm going and then I'll take the paternity test so she kept wrapping that up and I said just I'll take the paternity test like I want to take it because I was the first one to bring it up I'm like let's do this and then it magically we went from one kid to Twins and she's like oh well they can't do it whenever there's twins involved so I called every single lab Center possible and I found Raven and they're like yeah we'll do it and no problem at all and so I I'm like hey I found somebody and she responded back like oh great so I can't wait to take it I said all right perfect so I'm gonna schedule it for this date she's like I'm only goingon to do it though if if you date me for a week because honestly I know I'm pregnant with your kid I don't have to prove anything so if you're not going to date me then we'll just wait until the due date and you'll find out then so she just kept throwing the dating card out there and I'm like I can't get past this we went to a Medi she scheduled a mediation at the court same thing I the mediator said what are you guys going to do to solve this I said I want her medical record she's like I'll do it if he dates me I'm like stop putting that on there and I was like can you just show me and so finally we got to a point where we said she said I'm not showing my medical records because I don't want you to see all the other stuff that's that's that's in there you know it's not pertaining to pregnancy and I said okay then how about we do a paternity test and she said sure I'll schedule one in the media is like all right you going to schedule I said she's not going to I'm telling you right now we get off the phone or you know off the medi mediation and she she's like yeah I'm only going to do this if you date me so she just threw it back out there again and then she said I'm going public and then when she went public that was her you know she comes out trying to control the narra narrative and says I'm listen I've been trying to get this guy to take a test he won't do it and I'm like no no no I've been calling for this for for months so she's me as everyone saw was manipulative is manipulative and she tried to you know control the narrative by coming out saying I've been trying to get this man to take this test and I just that's why I went to social media I said all right here we go like it's out there so I went straight to my stories I said hey look here you go proof that I scheduled this um now she has to schedule hers she did schedule one before that point and then she canceled my portion and so I never found out who canceled it specifically I know it was her someone related to her but she goes all right I'm gonna schedule it and I said perfect and so she scheduled it I scheduled my part and then I called the the the day before to confirm and as I'm calling I get an email from her and she's like I saw you can and I'm on the phone with them I'm like oh no no no I know so so I call them and I go hey I want I want to confirm that my my test is tomorrow they said no you canell it I said I did not cancel it and they go well yeah no it was canceled uh somebody called in on your behalf um H from a clinic in U it was like in the LA area and I said I didn't call I said who called and they go and so they gave me a script a transcript and like uh they gave me the name or not the name like somebody that called in so I have the name of the person that like called in on my back behal it was someone from a clinic and they said that person apparently got a call from somebody else but they didn't know who it was but they said yeah I'm canceling on his behalf so she tried to get me on that so that's why I called right away and then I got Raven to schedule it on my behalf so she was already setting that up and she then she goes out public and says he just canceled and that's why I was like no no no I'm scheduling this on my my account now because you canceled this on me so she was again like setting it all up and I had to I realized I had to play you know four-dimensional chess with her I was like I have to be two steps ahead of her because she's game planning to make me look like I'm the one that's being dodgy and it's one of the things that I've brought up a lot when I've talked about this case is you know people could say oh she's crazy and she's doing all this stuff but the constant I mean this is a woman that after your hookup the night of May 20th you told in a car sitting with her in a car the very next day like hey I crossed the professional line there shouldn't have happened I don't think there's any future between us this was one day well May 21st right the very next day and then it's just like why and I've said this from the beginning why couldn't her answer have been oh you know just oh some guy you know got a [ __ ] from me and now wants to dump me that that sucks and just move on with your life like it happens girl got you know guys ghost girls all the time and you didn't even technically ghost her you told her to her face like look I I shouldn't have crossed that line this is what you know I know what happened last night and but I don't think there's anything any sort of future between us and then here you are dealing with it 13 months later it's just it's baffling to me that this woman has obviously some sort of issue with men saying no to her because you said it the next day and never made it any more clear than hey it's just not gonna happen between us it's fine two people hook up and they don't have to date I don't want to date you I'm not interested and then she just took it to this level yeah I um so when I the thing is and this is what is she was normal until she wasn't um there was no signs whatsoever the night that she was over at my place she was a normal woman um I did not pick up on any signs that she had any type of screw loose um and then the next day when I told her I had made a mistake she starts crying and I'm that was like my first little yellow flag I'm like whoa like I just met you why are you balling your eyes out and saying like please give me a chance and I said no I'm sorry like I made a mistake I'll you know have you I'll I'll pass you over to another realtor coworker of M they'll get this done I don't want the commission on this like I'm sorry I made the mistake and I'm willing to forgo that like let's just I like let's just go ahead you know and and and move Beyond this um and she was like no please I only want to work with you and give me a chance please and I finally started to get agitated because I told her no about seven eight times at that point so I finally said Laura no is no stop asking me to date you like this is that that it's over I made a mistake i' I'm taking accountability but stop asking me I like you're now you're being disrespectful to my to to how I feel and my decision and I will never forget the look she gave me it was the darkest just her face glossed over and she went from crying to just straight face and she looked at me and she goes okay I totally get it she said you have a good rest of your day got out of the car and I remember I had chills I had goosebumps I was like I don't know what that was but that felt demonic like it was the it just washed over her she would just completely went stone-faced and I just knew I said I she walked out of my car I'm like I don't know what that was but like that's not the end of it whatever the hell that just was and I did not think it was going to be what it was but that was the first moment where I'm like whoa whoa whoa this is I'm dealing with somebody dangerous um yeah yeah I mean then like you said I mean that was in May of 2023 you know you finally got a judgment decision and June 18th of 2024 you know 13 months of this stuff that you basically had to had to deal with and so you you know like I said we're not going to go over all the details of the case I think a lot of people know them but the basics of it uh were were that like she just kept continuing with these lies and hey I'm gonna take this and do this and for the longest time you know basically from May Since the the night of the hookup until October and your first hearing that ended up being on Zoom you were repping yourself and when you did that I me maybe you just didn't think about it when you when you did that you were repping yourself and you had that Zoom case and it happens it's over and done with and you find out you you didn't even that's the funny part you didn't even know you guys were on Zoom that day Dave was the one that texted you right after you got out of the court and he said hey good job man you're like what are you talking about you're like we just watched we all watched it I sat there and watched it and I'm like he doesn't have any representation and that's where you know Dave Rays to GoFundMe for you but when you went to that case did you think it was over then yeah oh yeah yeah I did I mean so I just bought a house um and I was at a place where I'm like I'm not hiring a lawyer I knew the rates and I'm like I I'm gonna blow five grand a week like that's there's no way I don't have the money for it I just spent everything I had so I but I also I I'm like sitting here I'm thinking I go well you're the one who's innocent it's really simple you're gonna go into this case I'm gonna get my injunction against harassment against her to stop her from from talking to me and that'll be it and then her order of protection that she filed in response I was like I'll I'll get that removed because she can't prove that she that I harassed her um and so I'll I'll have that removed and that'll be it once I cut her out she'll just give up that's what I thought I was like if she can't harass me she'll just stop you know because that's that's her whole that's her whole way of of of you know going about this is she just inundates men with just message after message after message so I genuinely thought that she would just lose interest if I got that injunction and um yeah no that I I I walked out of the case as you said and Dave sent that text and um I'm like you're kidding but it ended up working out in my favor because yeah then everyone saw me and I had had a previous conversation at that point um with a couple lawyers uh and they said you know here's my rat I said I just listen I'm not saying you're not worth it I just can't afford that right now based off of where I'm at financially so um but you know once the once the case aired out there everyone's like what is he doing and that was when I think you know wood Nick saw it was like I this guy has no no idea still what he's up against so you know I have to like step I have to step in and talk with him and get him to understand it's important that he's gonna lose off a medical jargon or sorry not MediCal jargon off a law legal jargon he's gonna lose off procedures it's not about of right or wrong if you don't know the procedures you'll lose even if you're right so he you know talk to me talk some me and that's when I got representation I mean during all this and you know like you said you're a big mental health Advocate you had to put it on the back burner through all this you losing gigs because of it during all this was there a was there a time or a story that came out or something that she did that was just like you hit your lowest point do you remember at what point between May of 2023 and in June where there was a where there was an absolute low point to this um I guess it would just have to be yeah when it was the when she came out initially she she came out on that date because she knew it was the first day that I was filming for this local reality pickleball TV show so that was my first hosting gig and you know I was already nervous because I hadn't hosted before but it was still exciting and so she knew that that was the the first day um because I think I had mentioned to it in an email or something um so she launches that and I it's getting blown up online and the producers and owners of the pickle ball Kingdom they're they're all going around cameras are you know just they're they're they're filming and I'm sitting there and my phone's blowing up I'm like I have to like tell them right now they're gonna likely fire me on the spot because it's day one and they're gonna find a new host and so I my phone's blown up I'm getting people are dming me we knew this he sucks he always has sucked this tracks and that was my lowest moment and thankfully they gave me just enough support I I I I grabbed the owner I said I need to talk with you he's like okay is this serious I go it's very serious like grab everybody and um so they I pull them in a room I tell them what's going on they said okay can you please step out we need to talk about this so I step out and I remember I'm just like I'm sitting there I'm like this is it they're going to fire me um I am not gonna have any speaking gigs like all of my employment opportunities are gone like I'm down in my final dollars I spend everything on this house and it's getting renovated right now so it's either going to like it's either going to succeed or fail um I'm like but I have have to find a new source of income like I don't know where this is going to go and so I was just feeling super overwhelmed and thankfully they pulled me back in after five minutes they said you promis that like you're telling the truth I said absolutely they said okay we're going to stick with you that gave me just enough and then like the players the pickle ball players they all banded around me and were like we believe you and they were like my family and support in that moment if I didn't have that I mean I was at my lowest of low points because the following days it was just like all these news sources were just piling on they're like you know involved in a scandal and it was basically like guilty till proven innocent I mean that was that was the lowest point of of it all by far um and at the time I didn't I didn't have any I was going at it alone um but thankfully that my lowest point only lasted maybe a day or two because then I got a message from you know from somebody saying you're not the only one and that gave me a glimmer of hope that I'm like wait so this there's somebody else I'm not alone and then we found out the previous victims yeah you you had released a couple things here and there on social media but was it tough not being able to say much about this case while it was going on I know that you were probably biting your lip a lot and things were getting out and obviously Dave was covering it a lot I was covering it when I can because I was involved with her Dave was involved with her because she was emailing us she was trying to get her story across to us but just this bizarre of well if you're not going to listen to me then I don't want to come on your podcast it's like no you you just want us to tell your your narrative and you want us to say that Clayton is wrong and yeah it's like that's just not the way it works I'll present both sides but you know that's that's how she works and if you don't believe her then that means you're against her and she's you know possibly coming after you so it was just this weird thing but I know that you were biting your lip during a lot of that oh absolutely I mean I wanted to say so much more but I had to be so careful because of that BS protective order she has against me that's not rooted at any fact whatsoever um and I but it was weird the way that like the judge went about ruling on it he said you can't use your social media to harass her and I'm like what what nothing about in person she even said like well I still want to be able to see him in person I'm like what is going on here like how are we how are you enforcing some type of protective order but not for in person just online like I was blown away by the the ruling and I was like not in favor of at all obviously and I'm like this doesn't make any sense and the whole thing was based off of a you know a photo that she claims only I had access to but she put it on her Dropbox and so I was blown away I mean I think the the the court hearing you know the video finally has gotten out there and I said your honor give me 24 hours to come back and I'll prove to you she's lying right now like she sent this to multiple people he said no my decision's final and I was just like flabbergasted I'm like what the hell how am I losing this case like and and and here now you can't go on your social media and harass her I'm like well what does that even mean that's so like open-ended so I was very very cautious about okay I can't use my social media to speak on this whatsoever because she's gonna just claim it's harassment no matter what I say but then you know so I was treading lightly but then I realized wait she's trying to silence my my bit largest Avenue so then I became you know I got a little bit more ballsy over time and then I got to the point where I just became so angry and I was like you know what actually I'm gonna test this like go ahead like I dare like if the police show up and try to put me in cuffs for her like this is going to be a bigger stink than you realize like because then I'm going to fight this thing tooth and nail and be like this is based on lies this whole thing so if I get grab you know grabbed by the police and carried away and cuffs I'm like this is only going to backfire when they're going to try to say like you you violated this I'm G say on what on what grounds like show me the evidence so I kind of we got to this point where I'm like no like this is all based in a lie so this protective order to me doesn't even exist um I don't I don't really consider it valid whatsoever I just don't that's the way I see it now but I also have found that I'm like I have freedom of speech and I'm not harassing her whatsoever by Say by speaking the truth you know and she's a public figure by all definitions you know she has a podcast she you know wants to be known until all of a sudden she doesn't until her name gets out there and then she wants to quiet everything so I'm like you don't you you you put my name out there and you put your own name out there I didn't put your name out there it was you put your name out there by leaking this out to everybody and they went to the court hear and they found your name I'm like I haven't done anything to harass you I haven't told anybody harass you I've told everyone hey don't go after her like but I'm like you should be held accountable so that's why I've been speaking openly about it now and saying her name I'm like your name's already been out there this isn't me harassing you I'm just trying to hold you accountable I'm sure you've been on dates since May 20th of last year H how do you navigate your dating life now going forward would you would you prefer to date somebody who already knows about all this or do you mind having to sit down and explain it like hey if you don't know about this this is here it is like I don't know is there a is there something that you'd rather do Would You Rather somebody who's already like no trust me I've already read up about on you yeah I know you're interested in all this how's how's it been navigating the dating life H well I mean that really just was was uh time specific so early on I actually um right after I I interacted with Laura that one night I met somebody and I really liked her and um we started talking and we were talking for about a month and um you know at that point I was withholding intimacy I didn't want to like I was I'm like you know what I made a mistake being intimate like let me like withhold this and really get to know this person and if we get to us that place where we finally go to that next level I'm going to have to have this conversation because I this is you know monthin to the whole Laura Fiasco I'm like I need to like I can't like not tell this individual if she's gonna if we're going to go and make this more serious you know I need to find finally you know say something so after a few dates I realized like this is getting serious and so I told her hey I need to tell you something and I I told her the whole situation and she basically said I really respect you for letting me know but I can't stick around to find out so you know or to find out or whether or not it's true uh or I just can't be a part of this like this is your this is asking a lot out of something if we're going to start being serious and date like this is a lot of baggage and I'm like no I totally understand so that fell off and that just like you know went by the ways side um but now I mean now that i' you know I've been you know exonerated now that you know I've won the case and there was a finding of not paternity and she's getting referred to the county attorney and to be investigated potentially like now that that is happening I mean I would prefer a woman not know what I what my past is and I just mean more so from The Bachelor I don't I get hesitant when somebody knows what I what my past is because I'm like do are you really talking to me for because you like me or do you like what I've done so that's the that's where I try to withhold it I don't tell people what I am um you go on my social media I mean I I don't really oftentimes when girls say um hey what's your Instagram I'm like I'll just give you my number because I do try to skirt around like I don't want you to go on my social media because they're gonna like why do you have so many followers okay well just start scrolling down you're gonna figure it out pretty quickly um I don't have all those followers because my dance moves and not they're G they'll watch one dance video and they're like it's certainly not because of that um so I I try to hide it um just until I so I can just feel comfortable Like This Woman's not here because of what I've done not here for the fame or because of the attachment to it this person's here for me and then when it comes out naturally they're like why didn't you tell me and it's just as simple because I just want to make sure that you're here because you like me for me yeah did you lose people close to you friends did they kind of separate themselves from you thinking you were too toxic during this I mean obviously that first girl that you dated said hey I'm out don't want to be part of it were there any other people in your life that kind of said gosh I can't associate myself with Clayton right now no there were people that were being quiet but they had to be quiet because they're high-profile individuals and um they they sent me support in privacy I had a lot of support from people that that texted me messaged me um and just said hey I really feel for you um and they didn't make public statements but I didn't really care I'm like I don't need the public support I want you all to obviously believe me um and I hope I don't lose friendships since over this but um I got a lot of support privately and here's the thing like I saw this online and people said Bachelor Nation didn't come to my my defense and and I I kind of want to come to their defense for a second because I I ostracized myself from Bachelor Nation like I I had a bad taste in my mouth when I came off the show and I just got so far away from it and I attributed all the people that went on the show to like the negative experience that I faced and so I just like I went far away I had people reaching out from time to time hey would love to you know meet up collab whatever and I just wasn't answering them and so I don't know this for a fact but I think that a lot of bat or Nation like thought this guy either thinks he's too good for us or he just like doesn't want anything to do with us so why would they come to my defense you know I I I I ostracize myself I I I went away from it all and chose to to be to not you know go to those meetups and not be present there and not interact on their socials and um so I I'm not surprised they didn't you know speak up for me and here's the thing I don't think I'm better than any of them and I found out that it was like Clayton you can't attribute your experience on the show and all these people to being superficial like there's really great people that went on that go on the show um that that are really kind-hearted that are driven individuals that are awesome people to like that you could grow with and I just clumped everybody in to like you're all fake and superficial at first like that was wrong on my part because I had such a bad taste in my experience that I I I played the victim when I came off the show I was like man I got torn to shreds and this isn't fair the way they edited me and you know I didn't take any accountability really at first I was like this is BS the show painted me as this you know villain Bachelor and all these people set me up and you know for failure and so I you know what screw all them um I think that's why nobody came to my defense because they're like this guy doesn't really want anything to do with us so why would we support him I think in the early going pretty shortly after the Sun article came out uh I think Susie went on a podcast and she was one of the few that had come out publicly and and defended you and just said look I I know his character I just you know not knowing every detail she said I have spoken to Clayton and and she you know came to your defense and you know obviously Susie's moved on she's with Justin now I don't know if you have any sort of do you do you keep in touch with Susie at all you ever nothing no no I mean and I was so grateful like when she came out I saw that she said listen Clayton might be a lot of things but he's not a liar yeah um and and that meant a lot to me you know I because she didn't have to say anything but like that's somebody that I got to know on a personal level um you know pretty you know pretty deeply and and I she didn't have to but she was like listen like I know that my voice is going to you know get people to understand like or come around and so she decided to put herself out there you know potentially in the line of fire um and I'm just really grateful that uh you know she like we're I I wouldn't say we're friends at this point we don't keep in contact I mean and Justin's cool I've had conversations with Justin like there's there's not like this weird awkward you know tension between us I mean like I'm really happy for them like they seem to be way more compatible than like what I like what Susie and I were um they feel like a natural fit they're very creative they they're you know she's a videographer he's a photographer I mean they they seem to mesh really well and so I'm just I'm happy and I like again like I've talked to Justin a few times on social media he's cool um I think I met him in person I don't know why I'm blanking right now my brain just but I'm like I'm pretty sure we've hung out a couple times um super cool guy and so but it's just just there's just no reason for me to be interacting with her um for what for what reason right I mean it's just a matter of like you're dating him um and I if if I saw them out or something yeah we'd hang out we'd all have a good time and there would be no animosity uh but I just there's just no reason to talk to her hey I know she did an interview after the breakup uh between you two and you know she said some things and I've obviously this the first time I've ever spoken to you about suie about your season I was just curious she said some pretty like blank made some blanket statements of I think along the lines of and if I'm wrong here correct me but she said I don't even know why Clayton picked me in the first place and she made it a point to say that you weren't even her type did that I mean especially after the breakup and I'm sure obviously breakups are all hard especially a public breakup coming from this show when she said stuff like that in interview did it did it kind of be like you didn't need to say that did it bother you a little bit or you like no she's she's right I don't I I don't know yeah yeah no it did bother me um there were a few things she said that I was just like why um why why bring this up but you know what I mean relationships are complex there is a lot of our relationship that people will never know about they don't need to know about it um there was we had the option to basically when we broke up to either decide to point fingers at who was the problem or we could just decide to say let's just keep this mutual and let's just say that we both had an equal part in this um and I I think we tried really hard to do that were there a few points where I was like come on Suz like you're not making this equal you're starting to make this seem like I was the problem like and yeah I certainly felt that a few times and I'm like I'm not over here attacking and saying anything that you've done that I didn't like um but ultimately we kept it cordial and I was like you know I get it it's emotional a break Up's hard and sometimes you maybe say something and I I I really don't think she meant ill will and I'm like you know she did help me out so much and with growth and my life and she pulled me through a really hard time and so I'm like you know what maybe I don't like everything that she said since but she did help me out so I'm just GNA focus on the positive of the relationship I'll let her you know she can say a few things and I'm not going to fire back off at her because I don't want to be the couple that's like taking subtle shots at each other that become no longer subtle and it's like a toxic relationship I'm like let me remember her for the good the things that she helped me get through and I'll just I'll just bite my tongue like certainly there were things she did in our relationship that I was not a fan of but what's the point of me going out in public and saying here's here's some things she did that I didn't like for what what what do I win you know so people go oh well maybe she's not as great as we thought okay and then what like what do I what do I you know what is what do I win you know what do I what do I get out of that nothing um so you know I she said it but I the thing she said I'm like I get it it was a emotionally charge time you know relationship and certainly there's things you don't like that you that I did and vice versa but like whatever let's just let's just try to get past this and let's just be cordial and let's just be you know supportive of each other supportive exes and I I think overall we've accomplished that yeah it just seemed like it was out of left field for her to say that because it was like so far I can't remember how long after the breakup it was but to her hear her say like I don't know why he didn't pick Gabby or Rachel they're better matches for him like it was just like said it's was kind of battle left field didn't I didn't see it coming um and like I said you and I have never spoken um about your season it's obviously a season like you said where you were not painted in the greatest of light and you know it almost started from the very beginning and I you know I don't know how much of a fan you were of the show and no going in but for a guy who finished I believe Ninth Place on Michelle's season I think it was ninth right was here ninth were you aware that just just the idea of you being The Bachelor and your Bachelor season you know I had to go back and look at I I had it in my head but I wanted to make sure I got it right Michelle's season started airing on October 19th you were basically almost at hometowns of filming your season before anybody ever saw you on camera and this was like the show had never done this before everybody assumed because this was coming fresh off of I think Katie season because then we went into Michelle's everybody assumed our Bachelor was going to be somebody from Katie season Greg rppo or possibly Michael AO something like that and then we start hearing these Rumblings about a guy that's on Michelle season's Gonna Be The Bachelor and then some pictures get out of you shooting your intro video in in Missouri and it clearly is going to be this Clayton guy who we know nothing about and it's never happened before our bachelor's always been from the season before we've watch their Journey we've seen them in Hometown dates we've usually seen them getting you know very far even final two final three we have a journey with them and then once they get dumped it's like okay we can get behind this guy yeah I felt like we were behind the a you must have felt like I'm behind the eightball from the very get-go and the first time they announce you as the bachette you have to be up there on stage reading all this negative [ __ ] that people were writing about you on the internet like yeah were you aware that you were behind the eightball from the start I wasn't aware in that moment uh because I was so oblivious to the show on how it how it all went I mean I grew up my mom watched it every year um so I saw it in the background when I was walking around my house had a few girlfriends that watched it so I had seen maybe a handful of episodes um but when I became the bachelor I mean I yeah I didn't know like it was all new to me everything was new to me and um you know I know why I was disliked I mean because what you said no one knew who I was I basically was forced down everyone's throats you know in Michelle's season on like the last episode before I get sent home and then all a sudden it's like here's your Bachelor and everyone's like this guy was already chosen without us even getting to know who he is and we never saw him on Michelle season and you know it was a really tough dynamic because um listen I this is just I I I gathered all the reason I was disliked was because I was chosen over six men of color I think that was a major part of it um everyone's like why this guy was chosen at number nine why did you skip over these six other men and it's like oh because you want the stereotypical white dude um and so I was already you know behind the eightball on that um which I understood I was like why did you choose me over these other men like these guys are great guys it's like it's like you skipped over a lot and so you know so I knew that I was already that I was up against that um you know then also I was already announced as the bachelor before Michelle's season was aired so how how do you show Michelle's season with and and then incorporate me into her season without having me outshine her so as people started watching her season it's like we know this guy's The Bachelor like we already know so so now you're playing this game of like well we don't want you know a white man to overshadow you know a black Bater rette I mean I think that's that was another Dynamic where it's like we got to show him but we can't like make this his season it's still her season right so I think I think you know this is just my thoughts but I think the producers were kind of like how do we show him without like making this you know like making this just nasty and just feel wrong and like were like overshadowing so they were trying to like show me without showing too much of me but then like people weren't a fan of me and so like I had a promo that I did that was like I thought super great it was basically about this you know just this guy from that's like you know just trying to find love and like they pulled the promo they pulled my appearances you know and it's like so now no one like all these T moments where I can be potentially put in the spotlight so people can get to know me all of it was being pulled and it's like No One's Gonna know who this guy is and then all of a sudden it's like here's your Bachelor take him or leave him and everyone was like screw this guy we didn't want him we wanted you know Rodney you know we wanted Brandon we want Olu everybody besides this guy you know and and so but it's like not too bad you already got this guy so everyone's on Twitter not you know making all these malicious comments in the show is like hey like let's just feed into this a little bit and have fun with it and are you cool with reading these comments and I was like yeah yeah that's fine I I didn't really anticipate the hatred being like I was like oh we're just gonna like I'm gonna laugh with everybody but then I did the segment and afterwards like I this soci it just kept piling on I'm like Oh wait we're not I'm not laughing with them like I'm being laughed at you know and like and and at the end of the day we all know this the show you know plays on extreme emotions so if if people say like they don't want lukewarm because lukewarm doesn't make us you know spicy season they want extreme love or extreme hate and when the show realized that I was going to be hated they're like let's just lean into it then like let's just make him hated because that's going to give people something a root for on the other side and it was the women and so I just became a natural villain Bachelor now again I I want to say as well I took actions like you know that weren't favorable on the show so I'm not trying to dodge any responsibility I also don't hold any malice towards the show I think they just like at the end of the day I gave them a show and they're like we can't not show this man like you're not well-liked and you just did all this crazy stuff like we we would get fired if we didn't show this yeah so it just like was a perfect storm and and I just walked into a Villain at it it just was what it was yeah it was just really weird like you said how it became about because when Michelle season starts airing on October 19th that year like I said you were right around the time you know bachor starts filming end of September I think you were about a month into filming so you obviously you weren't even watching yourself on Michelle's season because you were off filming your season you were off in Croatia so you had no idea what the sentiment was and we as viewers like you said we knew okay this guy Clayton he's gonna be a star on Michelle C he's gonna be a guy that we're all Gonna Love and we watch the four or five episodes that you're on you're just like This Guy's in the background this is our Bachelor like they didn't even show you in a positive light but like you said there's a reason they couldn't have you outshine their Bachelorette it made it would make no sense it probably upset a lot of people so yeah there just wasn't anything there I thought we were G to get this oh I can totally see why they picked this guy when we don't even know his story it's like oh it makes sense now and it just it didn't you know just like it was a perfect storm and just was a perfect culmination of like there's no way that we can make you look good I mean it's just like we're we're really play I mean they it's it was a complex matter for them but again I and so that was just how it played out yeah and I and I just I I'm like okay I get it I'm not I'm not upset even like though some people I like I I get why you're upset with me I understand you know I see online people want more diversity and so like I it's like you picked the six5 white dude where's the diversity I I'm like I was like I get it you're all but like you're attacking me for accepting this role like as I took it away from them I'm like why would I not accept this position like it's a Once in a-lifetime Opportunity you know and so I understood why people were upset but I'm like I'm not taking this away from anybody I just took the opportunity because it was presented so yeah it just is what it was what it was and I don't really like I get it I mean I understood it just but even though I understood it it made it really hard still to swallow that all that you know anger and aggression towards me and you did uh an interview I think last week where I heard you this this has made the rounds on Instagram it just I I guess this is the clip that I saw I'm just going through my search on Instagram where you talked about the fact that before The Bachelor started filming or maybe in the very beginning you told producers like or they asked you do you think you could fall in love with multiple women you're like absolutely not this not not going to happen and then I think you said you were in an elevator in Croatia and you just started laughing out loud to yourself and producers are looking at you like what dude what are you laughing at you're just like I've fallen in love with more than one woman and that ended up being obviously this this Rose ceremony from hell because you've got Gabby you've got Rachel Susie at that point you know isn't at the Rose ceremony we don't even really I can't remember what was even going on with her I think that's because she had you had told her you had told Susie you might have to refresh my memory on this you had told Susie about Gabby and Rachel and then she basically said I'm I'm done I want out yeah we had the uh it would have been the overnight so it was the the night portion of the date uh after we had our 101 and I said she basically brought up to me if you intimate or expressed feelings of love to The Other Women I can't move forward so then you know that unfolded and then it ended with you know me becoming upset she I'm like all right we're done she gets into the SUV she drives away and then the next day I'm like I have to tell these women and you know because she left because she had a problem with it so I need to now inform you know Gabby and Rachel because they likely are gonna have a problem with it and I thought that everyone was going to be okay because I figured like everyone knew that the fantasy suites these things happen so I made the Assumption we were all on the same page but then when Susie showed me we weren't I'm like well then maybe I made an incorrect assumption now I need to go tell these women um and so that's where the Roose ceremony how it came about and in the moment again did you think that this was going to be the thing like obviously they made it into they they labeled it the rose ceremony from hell it was one of the more Awkward Rose ceremonies we've ever watched in the history of the show in the moment when you're standing there in I think that was Croatia right yeah uh yeah no wait why am I blanking on this this is Iceland bre Iceland okay that's right overnights we're in Iceland um this H this is happening did you think again in the moment it was as bad as it ended up playing out on television oh yeah I mean I I mean they're creative for for giving it that title but I knew it was bad I mean you could see it on my face I mean I was so worn out that entire night I didn't sleep the night before I was just I was exhausted so you saw it on my face I mean it was just it looked like I had aged five six years because I knew I'm like there is no way for me to divulge this where they're gonna go where they're not going to be upset I mean I knew they weren't G to take it and go hey it's all good no worries like appreciate you letting us know I knew that it was gonna be bad but I I and I I was the one that you know again some people were like did were you prompted to do that I was like no I really like I I thought that was the best thing to do um you know I take full accountability for that like why would you do that I'm like because I thought if like I can't just move forward and the next day and people they and like they'll go what happened to Susie oh I sent her home I'm like that's not what happened you know I need to let these women know because they're gonna if I don't tell them now they're gonna see it four months later you know and also like why would I move forward with these other two women and then act like nothing happened like they're gonna ask questions what happened so I was like I need to tell them right now because if if I'm gonna move forward with them they need to be okay with this you know this like there there's no way around this I need to tell them like and if they and I and so that night when I showed up I'm like I had a very very real like belief that I was going to that was going to be the end of the show that night I really felt like both of them were gonna say I can't do this and they were gonna walk out and I'm like this is that's it that's the end of the show um I think I think the producers thought that too they were like do you are you you sure you want to do this they were not encouraging me to do it they're like are you certain I was like yes I have to do this and I think they were also like yeah this is probably going to be it I mean I why would these women stay so we were all walking into it like I it's not it's what else what are you g to do like I don't want to do this but like I owe it to these women to be transparent and honest so I thought that was the right thing and I think the biggest thing I guess that the audience had the issue with was not necessarily the intimacy part of the overnight dates because I think we all know there have been numerous Seasons where the lead has been intimate with more than one person yeah it was the expressing your love to three different women or two whatever it was right and I think that was the thing so I mean I don't know looking back on it what made you did you feel like that's something you felt you needed to tell them was it something that was ingrained in your head like I think that's the biggest question everybody has is fine the intimacy but why did you tell them how bad you you know not how bad how you felt about them and that you were in love with them yeah so uh what happened was I was holding back so all three of these women at this point told me that they were falling in love with me and they told me you know weeks prior to the Rose ceremony from hell um and so now I'm I'm I'm like well I don't want to tell like I can't fall in love with multiple people I said that to the producers so I'm like I really like these women like do you love them I'm like I don't know I feel like I can't fall in love with multip people it's gonna be a train wre like and so I was fighting holding back holding back holding back well then I had the you know the the the three of them you know approached me different times and said you know i' I've told you the way I feel you haven't reciprocated it so I I'm starting to close off because I feel like if it were me that you were that you loved you would reciprocate but you haven't told me anything and it's been like a week and a half so I'm starting to close back off so I get set you know told this by all three of them or maybe not all three but I think prob two of three and I'm like well this is not what I want like I really do have love for all three of them like well at the time I was like grappling I'm like I go back to my room and I'm like these women are closing off like I have I I don't want to tell them all three I love them because like that's gonna be a mess but like but I do care about him I do really like him like do I love them like I guess I do for different reasons and I'm like but no I can't so I'm like going back and forth I'm torn and I'm like Clayton you were hold you're gonna shoot yourself in the foot like if you don't tell these women how you feel they're all leaving they're all going to close off and you're going to end up with no body and I and I finally was like you're in an environment where like it's a polyam polyamorous environment everyone knows how this goes you have the ability to tell them and fall in love with multiple people and it's okay because this isn't the real world so that's when it hit me in the elevator and I started laughing I'm like I'm so screwed and they're like why it's like because I just realized I fall in love like I it's not that I realized at that point that I fell in love with three women it's that I finally was willing to allow myself to fall in love with them and I was like I need to them now because I don't want them to close off and so I I was like excited and I'm like I got to go tell them all you know because I do love them for for different things each of them for different things um so yeah that was what it came down to was I mean I I it was either you tell them how you feel or you or you keep fighting and resisting not telling them and then they may end up all closing off and you're GNA end up alone like that was my fear so I think one of the things that was interesting about it was you know you tell Susie Susie says if you were intimate I you know I can't move forward with with you fine she gets in an SUV the rose ceremony from Hell happens both Rachel and Gabby you know go off on you but then Susie is still there and around and you're like first off did you know she was still there or I can't remember how that went about once Gabby and Rachel were just like we're done and then but yet the last we saw of you and suie was her getting into a car did you assume that she had left how did that how did that all come about and I guess going forward we all know now we know the story that once you left Iceland you you know on the TV show you were single but days after that you and Susie got in touch and ended up you know working things out so my question was I guess how did Susie end up getting over it because her whole point was hey if you were inent with them I can't be with you but then when you left Iceland she could was that a sticking point in the relationship that was always going to come up did it play a role or once you guys had the talk after Iceland and you guys cameras were off you can actually talk like real people did it become less of an issue I think that night was just so emotionally charged that there was nothing you know we got to a place where there was nothing constructive that was going to come out of it um and again like people like just have to realize that was a four and a half hour conversation you know everyone made it looked like on camera that it was 20 minutes no it was four and a half hours and it was really actually a really positive conversation for the first you know three and a half um and and then you know as it just as we began to realize that there was no moving progressing forward I started to get in my head and started to question you know her and I was like I don't know if you know I really understand like this feels like a setup so I started a question and that just went downhill um and there's just certain things I can't talk about so um you know so I just unfortunately as much as you know I I can't talk about certain things um so that then I think when when everything settled it was like I guess in her mind you know she was like I am willing to at least have a conversation with him and I you know was like Hey I just want to apologize so I I know that she's not going to take me back I mean at the end when when it was when she came back um for the final Rose you know there was this this big you know dramatic is she gonna show up or not I knew she was gonna show up I knew she was going to show up you know the producers like do you think she's going to show up I was like yeah not even questioning that she will and they said well how I said because I in her character I said but she's not going to accept the rose I said I know that there so I knew in my heart I'm like she's gonna show up and she's gonna let me down but she's gonna show up because it's in her character to do so but she's not walking out of here with me so that's why I mean I knew it was coming and when she showed up and then she was like I can't leave with you I'm like I know I know so I was already that's why I was just like I knew this and so we you know we she goes on her way and and I just was like that's it like I I stood out in the rain rain it was it's kind of like a very mov esque ending it was weird it was like I'm standing in the rain downpouring you know the the freaking producers are having a you know they're just oh get the angles this is incredible you know it's like there's the fire pit behind me it's downpouring it's like the perfect ending yeah and I'm just standing there and like I couldn't believe it I'm like is my life even real like how did this happen like I legitimately be was found a way to become the first Bachelor that ended up being alone that nobody wanted to be with and I was again at the time I was a people pleaser I didn't feel good enough I said that on Michelle season so I'm sitting there and I'm like just there you go you're not good enough you had 30 women and not a single one of them you ended up with none of them at the end so I'm just standing there for like 30 minutes and I'm like I cannot believe that this is my reality like this is proof that you're not good enough um so it was a tough moment yeah it was just a lot it was not what I anticipated not what my family anticipated and um yeah I mean the whole the whole last week was a whirlwind I was just honestly just moment to moment I couldn't even grasp what was happening and then after it ended we know that you guys spoke after Iceland I can't remember who said it who reached out to who did you reach out to her to be like hey just want to apologize for everything and then it got into deeper conversations and like I said you guys were able to talk off camera and actually talk like normal people or did she reach out to you which one was it yeah I mean I I believe everything happens for a reason and I think there's just some things I can't explain in life um but I happen to get my phone back um and so I was on the plane and I landed and I landed St Louis and um I like go on social media because I hadn't been on social media in months and so I'm like I go on my DMs and it's just like thousands of messages and I just honestly I mean again I thought it was absolutely just wild but I'm scrolling through and I'm like at this point I'm just scrolling I'm like how many freaking messages yeah and all of a sudden I see this red blur and red was my favorite color so I see this red blur and I stop I don't just because I'm like scrolling I'm like oh red my eyes like go to Red and it says Susie Evans and I'm like like no this has got to be like a fake burner account or something so I click on the F the the you know message and it's like hey like can we talk like I have a lot that I need to talk to you about so I I click on the page and it's she I think she had she left it public um probably because she was like he's probably going to question if this is real so I click through her photos I'm like ho this is actually her so then I messaged her I'm like let's talk like when I land or like when I get home and so we did so we facetimed that and um had a three-hour conversation and um had yeah that was just like okay like so at the end of the conversation I said hey I'm like can I can I call you again you know because I didn't know like what that was I was like are we this three hours and we're done talking I was like can I can I call you again she's like yeah I would like that so we just like talked the next day and then kept talking and then it was like hey can we maybe just try to give this a chance and so we did and you know that's kind of where it kicked back up yeah so I mean it was obviously that no season had really ever ended like that but it was while the show I know that this is where suie played a big role in your life because while the show was airing you know you getting kicked in the in the nuts by you know social media and the public and all that and I know that's where your mental health Journey wasn't good when the show was airing and you got to a point now I know like you said Susie helped you out with it but can you EXP explain to the public exactly what you were going through when this was airing and was it just a just a loss of I don't know selfworth or just like this is just awful for me nobody likes me nobody and the bachelor is supposed to be beloved for the most part you know and nobody's liking me in all this like where did it get for you with that yeah you know what's what's Wild is um I thought that everyone hated me like I legitimately thought that I was the most hated Bachelor ever now granted when that people bring up the discussion online I do see it's like my name somewhere in the mix but yeah but I I remember I I remembered it whenever I first was announced I thought that every message on the the puppy photo of me was like who is this guy we don't like him sucks he's ugly he has man boobs has an underbite him me I heard all these he's stupid I heard all these things and I felt like I would like the entire world hated me what I thought was really fascinating was like probably six months ago um I I went back because I was trying to take screenshots of messages because I was GNA go give a speech um and I was going to talk about you know all the negativity that I faced online and I'm like scrolling through the post and I can't find the negative messages and I'm like did they did a did ABC come on and scrub my my this this photo like where are where are they and then it was like every 10 messages there was a negative message and I'm like no there's they definitely deleted comments or something so I keep scrolling and I'm like this isn't that bad and so what I found out was probably every negative comment held the weight of like 30 to 40 positive comments because I was a people pleaser and so every time I saw a negative comment I dwelled on that comment when I saw a positive comment I just scroll past he's he's a great guy yeah okay thank you scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll when it was a negative comment I got fixated on it and I would look at it and stare at it for you know 10 times the amount that I would for a positive comment so where I'm going with this is that yeah I wasn't a well-liked bachelor but I wasn't as hated as what I really thought I was in my own mind I thought that I was like I mean I couldn't walk the streets without people throwing spilling throwing drinks at me and spitting on me and I mean I literally thought that I was the worst you know the most hated individual you know ever I mean that you know transcended multiple reality TV shows that's where my mind went um and so I went into a really dark space and there was a photo that I released where it was um it was uh the day before the after the final Rose it was like episode two was when I was revealed in person but episode one I wasn't present well I was watching it live with everybody else in this Safe House in LA with Susie and there was a point where I mean I just the everyone was you know they ripping into me on I was reading the comments on Twitter I mean there was like they had the panel of people and they were like he was he's not not smart for doing this like he doesn't really he's just not he's not a intelligent person and I just got overwhelmed and I got up and I went and walked over to the window and I stood there for like 30 minutes and I just couldn't watch the episode anymore I just stood out there and I looked out the window and I'm like why me like why why did why like what was the point of even going through this like why did I have to be chosen like this was the worst thing that ever happened to me you know and wouldn't this be easier if like I just ended it all like I don't even want to like go like live another day like this is just too much like I I I just I just wanted people to like me like I just wanted to be beloved for once in my life I've always felt like I've been in the shadows I've always felt like I've been trying to prove to people I'm good enough and even though I was I became an NFL athlete briefly even though I end up becoming the bachelor like all these things that should have amounted to something I ended up becoming finding a way to be hated and so I just felt like I'm like there's nothing you can do in this lifetime Clayton to be loved that's that's how I felt because I was placing so much importance on external validation I was placing so much importance upon accolades and and accomplishments and so I thought what more can you do man you you became the Bachelor and you still are hated like every Bachelor is supposed to be beloved but not you you found a way to be the one that was hated so it just it just destroyed me um and I had no self-worth and so imagine being you know in a relationship with somebody that has no confidence and no self-love how do you expect them to give any type of love to to to to your partner when they can't even love themselves you know so I I for that matter that was something that I could not provide to Susie um she she poured in everything that she could at points and I couldn't give her anything back and and and and don't forget that like Susie also was not really liked by a certain audience because it became like Camp Susie versus Camp Clayton like the the the way the the ending was was like who was in the wrong and some people took my side and other people took her side and so she was getting torn to shreds in her DMS too I mean like I saw some of her at one point she was getting more worse messages than I was people were telling her like she's a she's you know to take her life like she was getting all the same messages that I was getting um they were like you know what show did you think you went on like girl get a get a grip like get a like you like are you stupid like I mean she was getting blasted too I saw the messages and yet she was pouring everything into me and I couldn't give her anything back because I'm like I'm drained I have nothing like I don't even love myself and I see you getting these messages but I'm still getting them too like so it just was a really really tough relationship I mean I think there was love there on both fronts I know there was love there on both fronts but like we were just worn down I mean wiped out I mean we both of us we were we were sleeping until like and laying in bed until 910 o'clock because we didn't want to get up and start going out and having to live our life because we had no energy was like we every day we woke up we felt drained because it was like once we go on social media once we start like living our life and we open up our phones it's just going to be a wave of negativity and that's what it was so it just it was it was really hard did you guys ever do um I know obviously I don't know what at what point your mental health Journey started with seeing a therapist um right did you guys ever do couples therapy or was it just you did it separately no yeah we I was doing individual therapy and then we were doing couples therapy um okay so you did do couples and we were we were making progress but the problem was is like it just like we would make progress uh on in the couple's therapy but then we would go online and it was just like thousands of comments DMS nonstop I mean Batel nation is a is a very rabid audience you know like they'll either be really against you or really for you but they're extreme one way or the other and um you know we would go into these couple therapy sessions and we would kind of start to understand each other's point of views but then we' go on social media and we'd have people in our DM saying like why are you even still with her or why are you with him like we told like he was 100% the wrong or she was 100% the wrong and so everything that we were building and fixing in therapy just got kept getting you know ripped to shreds second we went back online because people were just nonstop commenting like we couldn't get away from it we could we we could have shut off social media I mean again listen like yeah we could have shut off social media but I'm just gonna be honest with you like I've never made easier money in my life like like doing the whole influencer thing I mean you you go somewhere you get paid $10,000 and you travel for free like and and I wasn't even like a big time like there's previous people that I heard were making $440,000 a post yeah where are you ever going to make $40,000 on one post and then travel for free on top of that I mean we weren't paying for trips anywhere and so it's like a really hard thing to just say well get off social media I would be a bad business person like I also why would you not take advantage of that if like hey come to come to New York and we're going to pay you $155,000 and on top of a free travel trip we're going to pay for your flights we're going to pay for your lodging pay for the events you go to I mean it was like Fantasy Land I I've never made easier money in my life and so it was so hard to like you're like well we would be fools to not continue to engage on social media because as long as we engage on social media the opportunities keep coming but if you if you cut it off then go back to your your regular job and I'm just saying like again like for putting in you know like social media is tough and it's own ways and have to create and have to face you know all this criticism you're subjecting yourself to a lot but I mean gosh I've never made easier money in my life it was so it's like I I couldn't justify I was like I need to get off social media but I'm like but Clayton you're making more money than you've ever made in your life man like you're it's it's this easiest thing you've ever done like you'd be stupid like you you could make money to set you up for a lifetime so it was like this hard Dynamic and I just yeah I think you know a lot of people like you said go through that and it is this weird thing because there are negativity out there nobody is universally liked we know that no matter even if you take you know the most popular people in Bach Nation they still have people that are just like yeah I don't like them and we'll comment about anything about them so once the relationship ended with Susie did you stay in therapy are you still in therapy today no um I didn't stay in therapy uh because I am just an open book and I feel like I get therapy sessions from people every day in my daily life um you know I I I found out that therapy is is is is guided guided mindfulness um is the way that I I I thought I was going to go into therapy and I what I realized is what I thought therapy was going to be was like coaching so you know having a a life coach um I expected them to say okay tell me all your things and then after I hear you out I'm going to give you you know bits of advice and here here's where you should go uh but then I found I told my therapist one day I said when are you going to tell me what to do like I've been talking you know for the last three sessions when are you you going to like actually like give me some advice she's like I'm not I said what do you mean then why am I why am I here she's like I'm going to keep asking you questions until you uncover the solutions yourself like well I what how am I gonna like I don't even think I know what I'm gonna like gonna uncover she's like you will like I just have to make you know my job is to ask the right questions and eventually it'll click and she was right one day it just like clicked and I'm like oh my gosh like the only way that I'm going to make changes is when I finally decide to make the changes but I have to get to that place myself I I just need someone to help get me there and so that's what therapy did well then when I got out of therapy I just kept having these conversations and I kept realizing I'm like this feels just like therapy I'd sit down with somebody and they'd be like well like why do you think you did that and I was so fascinated by mindfulness and and and and just you know um self-improvement and and self-actualization that I was just initiating these conversations I still do and I have these conversations on a daily basis so I really feel like I'm still in therapy because I have people asking me these questions and I ask them back and I learn more and so I feel that I'm very very at ease and I feel that I'm growing so much because I'm now just having these conversations that I was having behind closed doors and therapy I'm now having them just on a daily basis so when you I can't remember how long after the breakup it happened and when the whole obviously we know when the Laura thing started but what made you I mean I know one of the biggest things on your social media is the fact that you just decided I want to take up hip-hop dancing and it was this this long journey where you basically said to yourself this is something I've always wanted to do and maybe you were scared to do it because you were afraid of being judged uh by the public but then you just said f it at one point and just said I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna put it not only am I G to Take hip-hop dancing classes I'm gonna show people how I'm progressing how I'm doing and whatnot what made you get into that and was that a moment of like boom it's working for me I don't need external validation here yeah yeah so um I again because of my whole journey when I got to that lowest of lows where I'm like nobody likes you for what you've built you know because I build a facade I mean I I the person that I built up was like maybe if I have bigger muscles maybe if I'm the Superstar athlete maybe if I I I I look you know better I dress better I maybe if I create this this human being that is impressive I'll finally be accepted well it wasn't who I really wanted to be and so it was kind of yeah it was a facade and so whenever I got to this low point where I'm like you built this person up and people still hate you so now that you're basically down kicked into the corner you have two options either build back up the person that you were and try again or build the real version of you this time around because like to me I was like hey you're already hated by everybody at least it feels that way so how about you build back the the real version of you this time and see if people accept that version of you um and so I said forget it like I'm not living my life for anybody else anymore I'm going to start just doing me and so I started to make these changes and I'm like you know I have this creative being in me like I'm a I'm a Creator I am but I you know was an Executor I'm like there's creators and executors there's people that need creators to to give them tasks and they go execute them and then there's people that are just like I mean yeah like yeah you have those two kinds of people I put myself in the execution category where I'm like you give me something and I'll go do it for you but then I realized I'm like there's this creative thirst in me where I'm like I actually like have have these juices that I want to let out like I want to I I want to do these things but I'm not doing them because I'm fearful of judgment and so I mean there's plenty of times in my life where I tried to dance in the clubs and I'll never forget there was a time where I was out with like I think it was I was Brandon and Rodney and I was in LA and I was dancing this club and I saw this girl and she looked at me she was like gave me this look and I just stopped dancing and I was like and and I I'm like I can't like I want to dance but like I I suck and so I'm like I can't dance like I'm so embarrassed and this girl was looking at me like uh stop you know and so I those moments would burn into my head well then when I got finally just had this EIC moment where I'm like just I don't care how stupid I look like I want to dance you know I I I've always wanted to so I'm going to go do it so I went into the first class and I was super nervous but once I got through the first class I'm like that wasn't actually that bad like like they the dancers are are really accepting group of people like that was actually really fun like I felt supported so I I I took the you know private classes and and then one day I was like I was so happy because like I learned my first dance and I'm like I want I'm just so pumped and so I was like on a cloud n I'm like I'm doing it I'm doing it and I was like I'm post it online and I was so happy to do that little step it was like just to freak aak the song and I was just like I thought I was the man I'm like look I'm vibing I'm moving like and it was such a simple dance move but I was so happy to like finally be doing it and I wanted to show everybody and I thought it was like super smooth and so I was proud of it I posted out there and everyone's like oh this is cool and I'm like ah okay so I was getting a little external validation for sure by by posting that but I'm like oh I'm doing what I love and like people are accepting me for it then I kept posting some videos and some of the videos were like you know not great at all and I look at them now I'm like oh why' I post that like that's super stiff and like some of the dance some of them are you know I get it where people like they're cringey I'm like yeah that wasn't that good of a video but in the moment I was so happy about it that I posted it didn't wasn't cringy to me I was like no I'm just like super excited to like share this with you guys but then I started seeing people like I started getting DMS and people like you know what you posting this and just being you like even though you're getting hit with criticism is it's it's pushing me to want to step out of my comfort zone and so I had people saying like hey I just took a hip-hop class because of you and I'm super excited like I've went to like four sessions now thank you so much for like stepping out of your comfort zone and showing me I could do the same I had people saying like hey I took a knitting class I decided I signed up for a pottery class because like I'm watching you chase your passion and seeing your excitement so now I'm doing it and that just fueled me and then I was like you know at this point it's bigger than me like I'm doing the thing that I love but now like it's helping other people so like fine I'll just post my dancing Journey why not like you know just to give people some hope that like and show them like Dam you don't have to be a pro like look at me I posted my last video I was like hey if my stiff ass can post these videos like y'all can go do whatever it is that's that's that's uncomfortable so I kind of saw it as like look what you're able to do you're impacting people but you're also just being you and then I started attracting like-minded individuals so now the people I have around me are like people I actually want to be around and um it's awesome it's like I have an authentic group of people for the first time in my life that like I actually want to be around well that I think one of the videos you posted recently was a hey here's a clip from one of the the first days I learned how to do this dance to Here I Am A year later I think it was like yeah it was a it was a year video of doing the yeah doing the same dance and you're just like you do look back at that first one and you know and as I watch it and I think that's the biggest thing when you first dance you just because you're not a dancer yeah it looked stiff it just looked like okay he's got the moves but it does just looks like he's just counting in his head okay I got to do this I gotta do this with my foot gotta do this with my arm and now a year later you're doing the same exact move but it looks a lot more fluid you know I'm still stiff I mean yeah like I'm still stiff again like I when I see what people see I'm not like I don't have this altered sense of you know perception I'm like I see the stiffness I mean I get it but I am what I am I'm like I just I'm a big guy and I'm and I'm stiff and I never really stretched you know so like I have I'm just bulky and so like it doesn't my body doesn't flow that way um but the thing was is I'm like if you look at the before and after videos you can see I posted one recently that shows you know every month like I was a video that I that I took from each month in the last year you can see I become I became a different person my my style changed you know the clothes I was wearing I had earrings my hairstyle changed because what happened was is the old me died on this journey in the last year and the new me the authentic me the creative me has come out and been like this is the real me like I'm doing whatever the hell I want now so I watched that video and I was like this is super cool like externally you can see the change but internally it's even greater um and I just was you know I thought that was really cool and I like that and I like that social media actually can be a positive place where you can inspire people and so now I'm like I get to post something I love and it just happens to like inspire people that's pretty cool spot to be in yeah and that's that's great to hear like you said like internally it's it's changed you even more than it has changed externally so you know as we kind of wrap this up where do where do you go from here do you try and get back into speaking again doing speaking engagements is that on the docket obviously you're still in real estate I believe you're still doing that right yeah yeah so for what's next I mean I what I'm really excited about is I I be filming um my first four episodes of my men's mental health podcast here soon so I wanted to get in back into mental health um and and so I I I think that right now there's a major stigma with men and being vulnerable and so I'm like okay like this is where I can make my difference in this world I can start having men be vulnerable open up and hopefully get other men as they watch you know these podcast or listen to them to also do the same because there's strength and vulnerability so um that's the Avenue I'm going back to right now for mental health I mean I'd also like to go back to speaking um around the country it just hasn't happened yet but um right now immediately the podcast will be my Avenue to be able to continue to um or to get back into like the mental health realm I'm still going to dance I mean I have no I told my instructor I was like I mean you know I'm sticking around for at least a few more years I was like I have no reason to stop like I'm still progressing you know I mean not you know a pay I'm progressing so I was like progress is progress um and then I do um I still do real estate and I still do solar sales um and solar sales is relatively new but um I have the things that I do and I do my Airbnb um I have like a lot but it's manageable and I enjoy it and um and I have I have everything I need so um so yeah like I'm just happy I'm like I got everything I need and uh and my life is entertaining exciting and you know if I get to do what I love that's pretty sweet what's the what's the name of the metal health podcast and when is it officially coming out and yeah so it'll be it's gonna be called uh is called beyond the cover um so the premise of it is again like you know like everyone sees you know Face Value the front page of a book but I want to go beyond the cover with people I want to be able to peel you know flip the pages and and have people that you know men that I'm going to bring on that are that might be perceived as having it all fig figured out they're you know high-profile individuals in their respective lines of business but I want them to show like hey I here's adversity I've went through here's insecurities I've dealt with you know I still bleed the same blood as everybody else um so super excited about that beyond the cover just felt like a really great title um and um it'll likely first episode will I'll just say it'll come out within the next month I don't know um we're going to do our first four episodes film here in the next week um and then it's all new to me so as far as how quickly uh my team will turn it around um it'll safely I can say the next month it'll be out okay cool and obviously we'll all be looking for that and you know one final thing and I don't even know if you can say this or maybe even give us a hint you had referenced in a recent interview in regards to alluding to having something in your back pocket like something up your sleeve that dealing with I'm assuming this is dealing with you know the Lauren Owens case I Me Maybe you can reveal it now not fine can you give us a a a hint to what this is or I feel like what can you say about it I feel like we that got really blown up I've seen I've seen that a few times um yeah I I already so it got really blown up out of proportion where everyone thought that I had some like really I I I'll put it this way I've already done what what what what what I said that I was going to do that I had up my sleeve I've already done it um and it and it served it served its purpose and it actually worked just like I thought but it wasn't like I think everyone thought that I had some like information that I was withholding that I was just GNA launch um I'm not I want I won't say it because you know who's gonna you know watch and then she's gonna think you know she's gonna take it a certain way and think that I just it's I I just it's it was kind of an it's anticlimactic I mean it served its purpose what I did um I was withholding doing something and then I finally did it and it like it it grabbed it you know the attention of people and it took you know and gained the traction that I needed it to um and I I wasn't I I was withholding doing it up until that point um I just I feel like I can't say it because it's going to be I think it could be taken in a certain way where like I I can't give her anything that she at this point she's lost and if I give her anything should be like will you use this in this manner um I'll just say that I've already done it and it was definitely like there's I don't have some secret it's not it wasn't as big as what people thought it was I maybe I guess in that moment like I thought it was big um and I guess it was but I I'm not really doing a great job right now obviously it's like what is it I I just I I really it's one of these things where like I I decided to say something and reveal something on my own that um I hadn't done prior that I wasn't willing to say prior and I finally said it and it caught fire and now it's all out there and there's no hiding I'll just say that I I so it's internally it's already been done it's not been done publicly that we know of it's not a no it has yeah no it has it's it's not listen I saw that and I was like all right Clayton you probably got a little too like I I I think I I had to go back to that moment I think I said that I can't even remember what podcast you said it on I think honestly I think I honestly said that in a little way just because I again I know that she was G to watch it and I was like I just want to say this just to like rile you up like I'm just going to say this because I want you to know like I have plenty more I can do and if you're going to keep going like I'm going to kind of poke a little bit you know I think that's that I think that was more so a message to her directly where I'm like oh I got more in the tank like if you want to play this game let's go let's fight fire with fire yeah so I think that was more of a statement towards her well I mean it's been uh it's been great talking to you finally um since you know the time we talked months ago uh over a year ago on the phone and then obviously I saw you in Iona but great to finally have you on the podcast go over everything just kind of relive and I think your message and what you have gone through over the last 13 months I don't think anybody in Bachelor Nation can say that they have dealt with what you have dealt with either show related or you know non-show related there have been Bachelors that have dealt with you know being on the cover of People magazine you know Jason mesnik took a lot of heat for dumping Melissa and going with Molly but now he's married with a kid with her you know it's just like it passes and but yours passed and then this whole thing with Laura Owens came up so man um you're a good guy I really appreciate you for coming on this has been a long time coming I'm hope I hope a lot of people learned a little bit more about Clayton Necker the person today rather than just Clayton Necker the guy who was The Bachelor um and uh again I can't thank you enough for coming on I really appreciate it man we'll we'll obviously be in touch yes sir Steve I appreciate you man for everything you've done as well I know you put yourself in the line of fire uh with with a few other individuals when you didn't have to and so I appreciate it and um it's it's funny because uh yeah I mean I knew about you the second I became the bachelor everyone's like oh Reality Steve he's gonna try to you know P pull stuff out of you I think I don't know if I told you this my mom loves you like she was like you know she was like your biggest fan she's like and whenever you first reached out she's like Reality Steve you know because like you youve you've play placed yourself up there where like if if you know bachelor you know Reality Steve so um it was it was funny because she was always excited and then I think you had reached out to her at one point and she was like real Steve reached out to me and I was like Mom don't say anything I was like I'm under contract like he's doing his job but like do not so I was like I will get in trouble because I you know I had I had to be careful tell my mom stuff because you know she wasn't used to everyone like wanting to talk to her about things and but no I just I mean it's just funny because I mean yeah like you said long time coming but really grateful man you're a you're a good dude and I think a lot of people times I mean think they make their own inferences they think they know you they think it's like you know maybe they see you as the guy the gossip Guy R guy for the bachelor but it's like you and I have had face to-face conversations phone conversations and you know you're a genuine guy that just wants to you know it's just like this is what I do for work but you know what I do for work isn't who I you know am to my at my core and that's what I also would agree with on my own is like I'm like just because I did do this doesn't doesn't mean you know who I am at my core so um I I see that in you man really appreciate you for who you are and and really appreciate this this podcast you asked a lot of good questions I think people will obviously see me in a little bit of a Different Light I appreciate you give me that platform to do so yeah no problem um I think you know now that I'm thinking back to it I think the last time I reached out to your mom was when the pictures of you filming in Missouri for your intro video when I didn't know much about you and to hear rumors you confirm this is Clay I yeah I sent a picture of of that to her and I said can you confirm this is your son never heard back and I was like no she read it she read it she go yeah she goes Clayton Reality Steve she's like he just he just like he reached out to me she was so excited I was like what' he say she's like she's asking if this is you I was like do not answer that Mom do not which obviously I should have known it was you it was obviously the pictures were very clear of you shooting that thing in in looking for confirmation because you obviously your job is you know like you you can you release spoilers and stuff and so you were doing your due diligence to be like I gotta like before I release this let me make sure and I yeah it was funny because I mean again there's no harm no foul I'm like he's doing his job and I'm like Mom do not answer that yeah no that's funny and you know what remember your season I did not know the ending to your season for the longest time I had a lot of spoilers to your season of terms of dates and when stuff happened and who went on what dates but I didn't know the whole suie ending I think until the weekend I think the weekend before the finale aired is when I finally found out that oh you know there is um they don't leave together and but I didn't know what your situation was um currently at that time it was we kept it under WPS I mean we kept under wraps and it kind of at one point became a game it was almost like I was posting stuff on my social media where like I posted the one photo where I put self-timer mode and I was like standing by the foot of the bed with my shirt off and she had you could see her leg but like or it looked like it could be a leg and then I I did another one where like I was like I was looking back and I said looking back at my past and future I mean so we her and I were like having fun with it we were like I was dropping little Easter eggs but we made it a game we're like can we go the distance without this being spoiled you know because it's at that point it was like just as fun for us to like be secretly dating so yeah it was um we were trying our hardest to to throw everybody off I think I think the picture of you on the bed was the first time I was like wait maybe he is with somebody because that's a weird picture to take of yourself it's got to be her in the bed with him we were like we had like I I was like make sure you get your leg in it a little bit but like but you can't tell it's a leg but maybe it's a leg and we were because again like we couldn't go out in public so we were like stuck in the house all day so we're like hey let's kind of get be the show like you know the gift that keeps giving like let's keep like throwing little Easter eggs out here and just like have fun with it because we're sitting in the house all day so we're like let's just kind of be like you know maniacal or like let's just be a little fun with it and like play play this game the other the now that I think about it the other thing about suie was you know I'm trying to figure out did he pick suie is suie with him right now she posted a lot from Virginia Beach like I was like she's never away she's always posting where she is but now looking back on it maybe she was doing later grams and posting stuff making us think that she was in Virginia Beach when she was actually with you because she was seemingly always like watching from the place that she used to work at I think it's called Dukes or whatever I was like she's posting there on Monday nights while the show was on and I'm like what she was she was capturing days in advance like a whole week worth of content and then we would go we would go meet up for four days and she would just be posting those you know day after day so she was super super smart with it right and and um yeah we were like that was it became this cycle like can we trick the fans like let's go ahead and like trick everybody else and play our own little game you know like it just it just became like this fun little thing and we were dropping Clues and some people were picking up on it and we're like sometimes we were too discreet and people weren't like I was like we have to be a little bit more obvious and it just it was just something fun like it felt like a little psychological game where we're just playing it and yeah she was really I mean her family like some of her family didn't know I mean up until like a few weeks and after she kept leaving Virginia like she kept it from her brother and there's one I know I know we're wrapping up here but there's one funny point that I crack up she I think she already shared this on a podcast but um he like she's we were sitting there like in this house together and he calls he's like what are you doing her brother and she's like I'm just you know hanging out at my house he's like oh cool cool he's like I saw a video of uh Clayton that made its way out or something he's like it's kind of a dork or he said something along those lines and like I'm dying like I'm laughing in the background and she's like looking and she's like because he's saying this and he's like he made some comment like he wasn't being an [ __ ] but he was he made some comment about how I was like a dork or corny or something like that I can't remember what it was and I'm just sitting there holding like my breath because I'm like he has no idea that I'm sitting here and he's on speaker and she's like like she's like I can't tell him but she's like you know oh oh yeah yeah and it was just a funny little scenario and he finally found out because she was like I had to withhold it CU she was afraid that it was going to leak if like she told her family because we were like told you cannot let this get out like you have to keep this quiet so we were you know telling few people but it was it was just a fun I which which is really ironic because you know look obviously I'd like to get the spoiler for every season and whatnot but what's really interesting is is it would benefit the final couple if it got out there early and I put it out there and I was able to spoil the final couple like it would only help because it would get people behind you and get people as they're watching the show to be like oh this is who ends up together let's kind of root for them I was like it's not a negative thing I get why the show doesn't want you to be like obviously you can't go on a podcast or whatever but trust me I I I wish the final couples understood how much better it would help them if it was out there of who they chose because you're right it gives them more time it gives them people like it gives people more time to like or watch the show and be like I'm rooting for them you're right hey well like like you said perfect storm or I said you know there was a perfect storm and unfortunately my um my ignorance just put me in all the worst possible outcomes where I was like it's better if we keep this secret to the last second I was playing this game to try to keep it secret and you know and I did all the things wrong to to to be liked so it is hey you know what it is what it is it's all up there yeah you've turned it around obviously things have gotten better you had to deal with this garbage for the last 13 months but it seems like we're past that and you know obviously we'll be following your journey Clayton again thanks for coming on man really appreciate it thank you Steve you got it okay end recording