[Applause] the weight is finally over the new NFL season starts this week I'm Diana Rini senior NFL Insider at the athletic and my new podcast scoop city is ready to be your go-to football companion this season twice a week myself and Jas Daniel who played quarterback for seven different franchises in 14 years will take you inside the inner workings of the NFL you'll hear fresh Intel deep analysis and fascinating interviews with big ticket guests so far we've sat down with Andy Reed Josh Allen Shawn Payton and a host of others with loads more to come so check out scoop City this NFL season listen wherever you get your podcast the [Music] athletic it's finally happened Mark Marquez is a Moto GP race winner again after almost 3 years he's finally done on ducatti he's finally won a Sprint race but his brother slightly took the shine of this incredible seismic weekend by having a really pretty terrifying clash with Pekka B that could have a huge impact on the 2024 Moto GP title race and led to some reignited old Feud I think that's the best way of ping it because there's a bit of a split between the Marquez camp and the Valentino Rossy Affiliated Camp over everything that happened here so let's get straight into the crash sadly I'd love to be shouting about Mart Marquez first of all but the crash was just a little bit too attention grabbing this is the marce m GP podcast I'm Matt beer Simon Patterson hasn't been allowed out of the arogan media center yet and Val heri hasn't been allowed to stop work kicks we we've got to crack straight into this Simon you go first uh describe the collision between Alex Marquez and PCO Baya and give your take on it because as you said in our work chat earlier you do have opinions I always have opinions Matt that's what I'm here for abely so Alex Marquez well first of all let's set the scene peka bnaa had made a a had another terrible start same as in the Sprint race had had to do a lot of work coming through the field found himself in actually a fairly good position actually it was looking like a race of damage limitation um as he came through from fourth was clearly much faster than Alex Marquez had absolutely hoovered him up and I think was just waiting for the right opportunity to make a pass with with what you would have presumed would have been as least risk as possible uh Alex Marquez coming out of the below the wall the coming out of the the left-hander there made a little bit of a mistake just ran a fraction wide didn't quite go off the track but put a couple of wheels in the curb so it was definitely it was off the racing line bnaa didn't try to overtake him per se he just kept doing what he was doing he stuck to his racing line um which was a lot faster cuz you know he breaked in the right places opposed Alex who break a bit late and for me Alex Marquez rejoined the track rejoined the racing line as if he was alone on the track uh he didn't look to see where bagnia was he knew that there was a bike even if he wasn't sure it was bagnia in close proximity to him cuz he he you know just got a pitboard not long before it saying plus zero essentially and motor GP bikes are loud so we heard that it was there uh he rejoined into potentially into the S of of PCO BN the two of them Tangled um they went down very clumsily PCO bagnaia was very lucky actually to walk away with with just a few contusions because he spent a lot of time trapped underneath a bike um which is not some of you ever want to see anyone that that was quite scary um listeners I expect you have seen it but if you haven't when we say trapped under the bike that's not when they came to rest that's being dragged along underneath two intertwined bikes a gravel trap it was horrible and you know how hard the impact is when it changes from the asphalt to the gravel so imagine that impact while you're still trapped under a b and rolling into the I'm surprised and obviously super super super super happy that he wasn't hurt worse than that because you know you they had a slow-mo camera right there and the slow-mo captured that particular moment it looks it looks really violent it looks really bad yeah Val what was your take on on how it happened and who who was at fault I have no idea that's I so Simon is here to have opinions I'm here to say I have no idea and shrug my shoulders and I that's your that's your own brand of um human diplomacy though I think F you see every Sid of all all story all stories all the time except when it comes to Yamaha development but my my initial hunch from the initial broadcast angles was that you know it's it's that sort of regular Clash of you know two writers going for the same piece of tarmac EX ccept with Alex substantially overplaying his hand and being Reckless and then I saw the the helicopter camera and it it softened me up a little bit in terms of in terms of my stance towards how how Alex Road I mean I still think you he was probably a bit careless and I don't buy that he didn't know a bike could have been there and we don't we don't know whether really what he was thinking in approaching the corner when he did it's you know we only have his word for it that it was just completely oblivious I think he's a little a little bit too good to be completely oblivious of the situation but also you know you look at the helicopter camera and B does pinch off his line a bit and you know but B does not leave him room as as Alex said one meter more would have been nice at least one meter there there was not one meter there there was a visit to the curb basically and at that point yeah probably Alex Marquez should have rolled rolled out of the gas but it does take two to tango uh pek will have had more situational awareness from just where he was coming from of where Alex might be so we you know we Judge Alex for not knowing better and that's fair and you know when you go off that far off the racing line you you really have to do a better job of just trying to ascertain your surroundings but I don't really I don't understand why B had to close him the way he did going by going by the helicopter Cam and I think maybe I don't understand the Dynamics of the corner that's entirely possible but also maybe this is Aragon and you just do not want to deviate from the racing line at any sort of at any second for any reason and maybe he just assumed that the the speed mismatch was such that by then he was already you know clear there's no spotter in his ear so that's exactly it I think he he thought he had completed the pass yeah no no no you're you're you're probably correct but then then that puts some of the blame on his shoulders even if even if he was at fault for assuming that Alex would yield maybe maybe Alex should have yielded maybe that would have been the reasonable thing to do but also it's Alex Marquez he won't he he rides he is a particularly aggressive Rider he's been in the wars he's been on the on the giving end and on the receiving end and if the race situation was also there that if you know if Alex Marquez gives up the position that's it that's the podium fight over whereas you know Petco felt it was going to be a done deal anyway I think probably but it was not easy to overtake at Aragon this weekend because there was one line so you still you know you still had to have get it done and you still had to fight for it so I'm as you can tell I'm a little like maybe 6040 on this one that that does kind of answer a question Jasper Pendle from the race members Club put to us um always on the post Race episodes of the race MV podcast if you're part of the members club which you can join by searching for us on patreon or via the hyra.com membersy club you can throw in questions we'll answer in the post Race episodes or in specials just for the members Club um Jasper said did PCO make the smartest choice for his championship I haven't seen the steward's decision when writing this and we'll get onto that in a moment but even if Alex was at fault could or should Pekka have done something to avoid the crash now my take on this is very much the Simon line of Alex went so far away from the racing line had made the mistake he the the pressure was on him to just give up the corner or do the avoiding action but Val from what you're saying it feels like you think PCO could have actually played it played a smarter hand as as Jasper puts it and do you think he should have done given a championship position it he had a lot more to lose in this than Alex Marquez yeah yeah I I I I think so I mean it's easy to say sitting sitting in my chair after the fact it's you know it's it's game of millimeters it's I imagine the easiest mistake to make and you know we get the helicam we get the whatever slowmo shots whatever we get all the traces and whatever you know they get their two eyes and their ears and the the head Mobility through the corner isn't great you can't exactly just swivel around and you know Periscope it through the corner you you see what you see and you feel what you feel I you know from where I am sitting and again maybe I don't get the Dynamics of the corner but from where I was sitting there was a needless amount of like either squeezing or just carelessness in terms of you know the insurance wasn't built in there I think I think he took a risk that he didn't need to take and it for made contrast with you know earli in the race we saw Martin lunge the absolute hell out of a Costa just yes dive bomb him to to High Heavens uh through the reverse course crew and you know they both come out of that you know they've run wide they come out of that like 10 km an hour they're basically you know they're rolling around rounds in that situation Alex who was behind them could have made it his business too and could have very easily created something there and he instead he was just like nope not now not yet and you know he he was repaid for that for staying in the race until he didn't cuz in a different situation he wasn't so discretion better part of valor Etc but you know I think I think this was avoidable from from both parties certainly just an unsatisfying answer but it's just how it is sometimes well you youve semi sold me on the PCO could have done a little bit more but I'm still in the camp of yeah Baka left one meter more Alex could of had some awareness of other bikes being on the track during a MotoG GP race I think that was what for me Marcus went wrong um one of my favorite members Club questions was Angelina wesland saying what do we think about the Stuart's decision and the reason I like the question so much is she asked it straight away saying I'm sure there will be a Steward's decision um it was a no action wasn't it were either of you surprised by that not massively Simon's nodding straight away I I think I think in the context of what we've seen previously I mean look I no one here even PCO bnaa believes that Alex Marquez should have like a eras ban for this but I think the context of what we've seen from other things and what we've I mean maybe the problem is you know saying that I've come to expect anything of the Stewarts because they tend to be so unpredictable but I think in the context of what we've seen previously no one at all would have been surprised to see a Long Lap p come Alex marquez's way yeah um I think that would have been kind of a a realistic reasonable thing to deal with this um so I was a little bit surprised to see them deliver no further action and also quite surprised at some of the reasoning for it to be honest um I love the fact that in the official decision they spelled Paco's name wrong I think that's quite funny uh and then they went on to say that essentially the it was mitigated because of the you know the the nature of of Aragon this weekend and there being One racing line which is something we'll come on to a little bit further uh but I think that very much ignores the fact that Alex Marquez left that racing line yeah so you know obviously PCO PCO stuck to the line because he thought he'd made the pass and like you said earlier mie didn't want to deviate from it but uh I think there has to be some taking into the account of the fact that that you know Alex Marquez did leave it yeah yeah I just feel that that that reasoning kind of opens us up to saying it was a wet race therefore anything goes almost but G on F yeah no because I I don't like to be on the side of it's I'm not even sure I agree with it or not and if it was a three Place grid penalty for for Alex I I wouldn't be up in arms exactly you know me I don't like the phrase racing incident I think racing incident is what people say when they don't feel like thinking about a crash genuinely I think honestly if any Championship out there decides that the racing just there can't be a racing incident somebody is always guilty I'm fine with that because at least then you you take the time to look at what happened I I know this is a very hardliner disagreeable position and I'm not sure I actually mean it but I do mean that I don't like racing incident as a turn of phrase yeah every like every incident is a RAC I think the people who use racing incident sometimes you could show up to the padic and you shoot the other Rider and that's a racing incident in some people's eyes anyway regardless of that uh but I think we don't have a good framework for how to deal with these particular crashes and we've been getting a few of them of you know just two lines intersecting because somebody got the corner a bit wrong but doesn't yet think that means they should give up the position I don't think there's like Universal agreement of what's to be done and what's the right way for the writer ahead and the riter behind to to behave in that situation so until there's a some sort of agreement in that regard I mean what else are you going to call it but does this so This actually leads us to Dan Neil for ub's question because he says this is another example of a rider laying the B on top of someone on their inside this strategy overtaking is getting more and more dangerous is it going to be looked at in the future so Val you like you say there's no there's no Ro precedent that stewards don't really have anything to work from but this is also happening this kind of Crash is happening more and more should there be more of a kind of defined framework for for how this is punished yeah but I think nobody wants like Ultra at the same time nobody wants Ultra prescribed racing guidelines or at least I think that's a really good way to to irritate everybody like oh you know we're just robots we can't even race one another all if you told all the writers that there's a certain way they have to behave when they've washed out wide or when somebody ahead of them has washed out wide all 22 of them will say this is like this is a totalitarian state this is horrible this is the worst thing that's ever been done to Racing moto GP will never be watchable again and I think there will be popular support for that sentiment so I don't look I don't know it's a it's a complicated one uh you ideally I guess you do decide incident by incident it probably should matter whose wheel is ahead at which point it probably should matter as to the nature of the corner but it's I I don't know I mean they should they should look closer because these incidents keep happening and when they do happen people either go flying or get trapped under bikes I mean that that much is clear what Baya got trapped under bike today uh what it last year at Lem man it happened between him and vinales that was also a big one mhm like both of them are fortunate not to come off Wars from that one so clearly it's it's something to think about because again visibility on bikes when you're riding clearly Vis limited obviously that's human biology eyes yeah yeah for me it it you know part of it comes down to there are Unwritten rules of racing and and one of them has always been if you go offline it's your responsibility to merge back into the pack responsibly um and it's not codified anywhere there is no rule that says that much much for the same reason that there is no rule that says it's legal to take off your helmet and beat your opponent with it mid RIS cuz it Doesn't there got to there's got to be a rule I'm going to check there's got to be something in the sporting code yeah there is it's covered under the same rule cuz it essentially says you're you're writing you know irresponsibly and it falls within that General broad that's why it's not in the rule specifically but it's there you know people kind of know you don't do it um it's like cruising in the wring lane or it's like like sitting up in the middle of a corner and having someone run into the back you it's a responsible writing um and I think maybe it's one of those things that needs to be that they need to be reminded of but maybe it's something that Moto GP doesn't feel they need to remind them of like certain other things that I would call irresponsible that they they don't punish hard enough um thinking yellow flags specifically but but anyway that's deviating um yeah I I think that it it it's it's a fairly obvious brid of of kind of racing etiquette should say there's also there's one part that I only considered when sort of when we were discussing what Petco exactly said about the incident because there was sort of a a hint of it being like deliberate is right and I couldn't I couldn't understand what he meant my best theory because obviously Alex Marquez has nothing to gain from exiting the race with Petco if you think Alex Marcus has a Jorge Martine Shrine at his house or whatever out of your mind that's obviously not the case I I mean he might have his preference as to who wins the championship but it will not dictate how he goes about racing but Alex Marcus does have a preference for finishing on the podium and the suggestion so Petco suggestion was that Marcus stayed on the throttle once they were coming into the corner so either once the like the contact has already happened or was clearly going to happen I again Alex didn't see him so I imagine or at least could couldn't have known what moment the contact would come at but if if if the throttle stayed on then you could potentially argue maybe you know we we see a lot of modp overtakes where you know it's a bump and run you know somebody stays on the throttle and they're on on the inside of the corner but they instead of yielding they just Usher the other guy out out wide and then they they basically let the stewards sorted out or not sorted out and they try to deal with that I might believe that like that's it's I haven't again that depends on the data and that that requires a close look at the data from everybody involved which you know will not be available to us but I really hope was available to the stewards clearly writers should not be allowed to to bump and run they should not be allowed to initiate contact just to move somebody aside because on bikes contact through such Corners at such speeds leads into bodies and bikes becoming intertwined and going to the gravel at horrible speed well this is what I kind of class as like the the Sepang 2015 Revival element of this of this Clash debate because it's it's someone from the Rossy Camp which Pekka banar effectively is as a Rossy proe just intimating that something deliberate and dodgy and odd is going on and there were a lot of other Rider reactions and you could kind of see where the friendships where the alliances were in a lot of them as well Simon is do you think there's anything in what PCO was insinuating there around how Alex Marquez handled that crash and what he was doing with his throttle so so PCO straight up said that he didn't believe that Alex had rolled off and he said that the first thing he did when he got back in the box was kind of check the data and see and that confirmed it and I think what we can see cuz um we we were quite lucky that Don's slow motion camera the 2 frous second camera was off that corner so we have this beautiful shot of the Collision essentially um it's not beautiful if you're PCO cuz it it shows exactly how horrible the crash was for him but you can see Alex marquez's throttle hand really clearly in it and it very much looks like he like he's trying to style out the corner for himself at that point like he's realized that um there's possibly an opportunity to uh to get away with it for himself if he just keeps the gas open regardless of what that does to Petco's race and there's possibly an argument that if he'd rolled off at that point PCO might have been able to pick up the bike again or at least the crash wouldn't have been severe as severe or it wouldn't have you know they wouldn't have ended up tangled together the way that they did so I get where a sense of his where an element of his frustration is coming from there because I think that yeah maybe Alex was a bit too gung-ho in the way that he dealt with the the immediate aftermath of the the first impact between the two and yeah I mean we're talking something that's happened here in hundreds of a second don't get me wrong but we also know they're mot GP writers and that sort of like throttle reaction is is kind of instinctual to an extent yeah yeah I think it's if it's if it's not an attempt to and at that point at the point of the footage it's it's I mean that's already the crash is already happening there's no bump and runs happening there's there's an incident going on but at that point you know instinctually it's going to be about trying to stay on I think but it's I I would hope and given the fact that you know B is aware of this clearly the stewards will have been aware of this I would like to imagine Alex Marquez and his gini team have been asked about it and the stewards did mention in the in the verdict that data was was used which is nice data should be used it should yeah also the fact that so often we say that Stuart's decisions seem to be based on consequences not intent or not cause with this consequence wise this was hideous and it was a no further action so whether you agree with it or not at least they're not following the president of the bigger the crash the harder they come down on the rider if you want more on this listeners and you want to see Val and Simon talking about that and see their real faces we do have a MotoG GP only YouTube channel on the race now um search for the race Moto GP for that and you'll see these guys debating it with Simon and The Paddock in our next video on that channel coming up early this week if you like what we're doing on there please subscribe please like because we're going to do more and more and more Moto GP videos and the more momentum you help us build on that the more more of those we can do you know that's the sound of another sale on your online Shopify store but 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for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com theathletic all lowercase go to shopify.com theathletic to take your retail business to the next level today shopify.com [Music] theathletic uh we've got habit on this podcast of leaving discussing the race winner to quite late in the recording because we often go into Ridder Market off traction anig that kind of thing for 45 minutes first I didn't think we'd leave Mark Marquez till 20 minutes into the podcast when he won his first race races on a jatti but that's exactly what we've done thanks to his brother so Mark Marquez absolutely dominated the aragan weekend on track he hadn't uh he had looked like he was going to win a race for quite a while had such big preseason expectations and then as it became became clear how long the adaptation would take as it became clear how long how good the gp24 was and how old a spec of gp23 he was stuck on I was starting to think this this might not happen this year but yeah it really really really has happened um obviously loads of you in the members Club commenting on this I'm going to throw in this one from etan gamh first uh who says would Marquez have won by 30 seconds on a GP 24 F no no I don't think so but you would have won on a GP 24 I think maybe by a a handful of seconds more but this wasn't about the gp24 necessarily I think he would have there's a non-zero chance he would have won on any bike on the grid both potentially okay not not Honda not Yamaha but not okay not ailia because it's been horrific this weekend but there's you know I there's a chance that most of this was just you know weekend circumstance that allowed Mark to skate by on being Mark rather on having the the C gp23 I love that Val went he could have won an any bike in Grid and then basically will don't to he might have W on a KTM bad not good not one of my finest moments I think I think the difference the difference if he'd been in a gp24 is that we wouldn't have come into this weekend thinking oh is this finally the one that Mark Marquez is going to won we would have went into the weekend thinking how much is he going to win by yeah yeah I agree completely and uh I mean the difference I think would have been seen with a normal weekend which this this was not now you know it wasn't normal from the start because obviously so Aragon resurfaced this weekend not this weekend it was resurfaced in the leadup to this weekend the lead up to Moto's return to the grid uh normally with a new Surface the the grip is pretty good and in some facets apparently the grip was pretty good but in other facets mainly the fact that the track was consistently dirty and then you know the grip of the surface doesn't matter so much if there's stuff on it besides the actual you know the actual new asphalt and if there's stuff coming up from the asphalt which I don't know if there was but in any case so it the grip was very sketchy on Friday morning he dominated the grip became a lot more normal on Friday afternoon he dominated still he set the lap record then overnight rain happened grip was gone uh Saturday morning practice he's quickest by a lot Saturday morning qualifying he's quickest by a lot grip doesn't really come back Saturday Sprint he wins it very very comfortably and then just says You' think well okay but the grip will build up now because you know we're running day after day session after session multiple classes Reigns again so we're reset again and you know the fact that the weekend kept resetting that's Mark territory so finally you know he didn't have the cleanest run through the Saxon ring for multiple reasons he didn't have the cleanest run through the Circuit of the Americas but also was like almost too normal and there was a honestly I think even if he didn't crash I think Mari vinales wins that 10 times out of 10 he had so much more than everybody else but this this weekend was weird in just the right ways for him every time and it just it kept making sure that other guys can't touch him we don't know if they could have in a normal weekend it's you know it's pure hypothesis right now but we know that this made it not easier but this made it likelier that Mark was going to walk it and he did was it I I get the circumstances and like you say it's very much Mark territory that particular change of grip and lack of grip is just like glorious Marquez at his best but couple of questions about the GP 23's and grini's Pace Eric Yip Eric by the way your your question about chairs which is absolutely brilliant will not feed you on this episode but it will finish in the Moto GP extra promise um Eric Yip says how was graini all of a sudden so quick because it wasn't just Mark Alex had Podium Pace too before he did what he did and Mr ice called Andy 23 said although it was track specific why were the GP 23s all of them way more competitive relative to the gp4s here so yes a mark genius here but Simon was this also just a better track for the GP 23s of for grini yeah um it it seems to be partly grip related and partly thanks to the the fact that the big strength of the gp23 is or 24 is a straight line breaking and that was a bit diminished this weekend because of that lack of grip and Corner entry that that brought the 24 a little bit closer to it and let the 24 kind of do what it did last year uh a bit better you know kind of what it was doing last year was slightly different from what this year's bik doing and that sort of this weekend better cuz the grip was really terrible um which is probably really good news if you're uh you know any one of a number of riders heading to a few circuits in the coming weeks where grip is going to be a bit patchy I mean I would expect you to reset back to zero for misano which is normally super grippy and and recently resurfaced properly unlike put um Aragon but we'll come to that uh it's grippy track but then we go to Indonesia then we go to Thailand then we go to maty where it rains a lot pleas that aren't used that much just we might have this weird swing where we expected the gp23 to start the season really strongly cuz that's what it always does and it doesn't this year it might be the other way around and they might have a decent run of form in the flyaways yeah you know I think I'm actually I'm not 100% convinced that the gp23 was like maybe it was a bit closer I'm not 100% convinced he was really fully Unleashed or anything like that I mean Alex Marquez is just kind of good at Aragon isn't he and he's good in in low grip uh digia hard to assess Fabio de Antonio because he's coming off his you know dislocated shoulder still not 100% right Marco bizi you would have expected to have a much better weekend given the the the low levels of grip and it didn't really come together for him massively at at any point and we still saw flashes of the GB 24s kicking into extra gear when they got a bit of normal running like there were you know some moments races Renee basini ran shockingly fast he was just undone by grd position which was a consequence of grip Shenanigans but also a yellow flag on Friday and a little bit of being an atin as well and a little bit of being an air yeah I mean that's you know the the qualifying on Saturday was being anasini I think Jorge Martin was pretty quick in moments relative to Marquez and I think Baya when things were going okay for him had had a bit and they didn't have enough to challenge Mark over distances certainly but I think the more sessions they got normal the more grip well as as Simon Says Yes grip and obviously the the the the understanding is that the more grip there is on track gp24 is able to exploit it better than anybody else but you will also remember we went to Barcelona with the expectation oh the AIL is is going to walk this and instead the the GB 24s of B and Martin beat everybody into submission just absolutely brutalize them it's so it's I don't think it's fully that I think it is also just how the weekend played out and it's it's just I I find it hard to really parse at the moment but another thing and this was brought up coming into the weekend Alex Marquez did say that you know the right height device the newer version that the the newer Ducatis have and the older Ducatis do not would pay massively in places like red bull ring at places like M but would not pay as much at somewhere like Aragon the other element beyond what actually happened this weekend is obviously looking forward to 2025 because all the time Marquez wasn't actually getting the job done which might be a harsh show putting it but factually he didn't want to race there was this question mark over was this matchup with Bai next year going to be really everything we're expecting was might it somehow be an anticlimax because I I feel it a little bit sacrilegious saying this but the more Mark crashed out of races recently the longer it took for him to get near winning on this bike the more I was starting to think maybe maybe the moment has passed maybe the the kind of Handover of power happened when he was injured and banar is now indisputably the greatest on the grid Marquez is still great but fading this weekend this weekend felt a bit different on that front um Oscar oblo from the members Club a very regular F1 podcast questioner so Oscar thanks for joining us on the mot GP side as well it's much appreciated he said is PCO Bard worried about losing control of the garage with Mark marquez's impending arrival particularly given the master class he delivered today and yesterday Simon no no I don't think PCO is thinking that way at all uh I think this is this will be Petco's team for the foreseeable future uh Mark is going to have to show up and you know learn a new Squad learn learn what he's doing learn how Factory jcat Works cuz it's different from how um the the you know graini works it will be PCO bna's team for the foreseeable future he's smart enough to know that um and I I don't think he'll be stressing it too much at all PCO doesn't have control of the garage in that way in what would maybe perceive as the F1 way of being the you know the driver that everything's built around because we know for instance that Ducati has now gone twice against B's wishes and his teammate we know that you know clearly he just does not have a lot of say in in who who on who is on the other side of the garage neither does he have much say although he's never asked for them so that's not entirely fair but you know we haven't seen team orders favoring b or anything like that you know he has clearly he has sway clearly he's very important to the C team he's earned a certain status by the massive accomplishments that he's delivered for for the brand but I don't think there's going to be like a control thing going on to where you know they're trying to wrestle development Pathways one from the other Etc it's just you know it's not going to be question of control it's going to be a question of which one of them's faster when they hit the track starting you know starting in the Valencia test and then wherever else we're going in preseason testing I can't remember saang andang yeah yeah this is also logical and correct in theory but I just feel like you both underestimate the mar Marquez Factor this is the man who kind of choreographed his arrival in that jatti works team this is a man who just got so much power over Moto GP and where he ends up still I it is Petco's team P's done so much he's so well embedded in there but this is Marquez there's there's scope for probably unspoken Shenanigans but Marquez will just put that kind of cold stare on the jatti garage and suddenly things will start happening his way I'm sure of it on the topic of kind of Marquez the myth a little bit though as I've kind of headed down that road how did let's get emotional Marquez hasn't won for three years this is big we've all followed his story for so long Simon you've done one one interviews with him you've done one for this podcast as well in which he's been so open about the physical struggles the questioning of himself over these years of not winning of struggling um he's won again that's amazing what a story was it a little bit diminished by the fact it came in a Sprint no no no cuz that everyone knew um that that he was going to do it again on Sunday yeah that was also that was also accurate and and he kind of talked him self down a bit um afterwards you know he was talking about how there was still a huge amount of weight in his shoulders about how he didn't feel like it was over until it was done on Sunday um it was almost like he didn't have the emotional release you'd expect until Sunday and and like I mean my God when he had the emotional release he had it we all saw it um there was a proper outpouring um we were talking to Fabio quadar J his his debrief and there was a big screen behind him showing the live track action we kind of GL drown at one point Fabio included and Mark was riding an electric scooter across the infield on a sow and Don laap like it was like World Championship winning celebrations it really was it was what it was mad it was great it was really really good to see and then he came into the you know to his media afterwards and he admitted that it was like kilos had been lifted off his shoulders and and then we saw the the the actual emotional response to it so no I don't think it diminished anything I think it it actually helped set up Sunday even better I'm going to engage in a bit of sacrilege here I didn't I didn't feel anything necessarily on Saturday or Sunday after he won and I will explain why because it's not any sort of per personal attitude towards Mark or anything like that it's because I felt I got out of this weekend what I needed to know out of it immediately on Friday and then again on Saturday I got what I needed to see on Friday morning when he was blitzing everybody and I got it on on Saturday in in qualifying in the morning when he went 810 quicker than anybody else and in doing so recorded the biggest motoji pole margin since berau 2019 which is also him and the biggest in the dry since like 2011 or something like that um for me the emotional wins are the wins that you're like I I'm not sure you were ever going to get it or this is like your first one but you know you you've worked very hard he's he's worked so hard to get back to where he is obviously I mean they all work super super hard but I never had any doubt this was coming sooner or later if not this year than next year and for me you know he shows up to Aragon there's no grip and he blitzes them again I know this Mark Marquez I've seen him a million times he's still the same guy to me in these conditions the question is when the weekends are more normal does his diminished physicality a little bit on the right side how much of that will be a limit in 25 Etc but you know in low grip like that on a left-handed Dominator try he's still Mar was I've learned nothing I enjoyed it it was a really good ride but it doesn't you know it's not digi's win from last year it's not zaro's win from last year I didn't think I'd see those guys win Mark I you know he was winning again no question V you could have just said that you've going to call dead black heart and sa all that explanation I I actually asked Mark afterwards about this uh about if he thought he would win again um in the press conference and he was quite like I asked him if he thought he was If he if he ever thought he wasn't going to win again and then when he realized he would be able to win again and uh he very quickly said kind of yes I thought I wasn't going to bot and change the subject and then went on to say he jumped in the bike at Valencia last year and was like oh oh this is fast we can win on this again um so so I think yeah I think he knew it was coming as well so don't worry Val you you it's just you and Mark Marquez the rest of the world's excited about it I'm excited about it it was a great ride no no no no I I just I I might have not phrased myself right I just it's not you know the best the most like emotional win we use the word emotional is a win that you weren't sure was ever going to come this again this was coming yeah it's for me it was still the fact that the moment when it did come given everything that's happened from 2020 onwards I know he has won he did win on H after that but you want on a Honda yes yeah but that was even that was a long time ago the man said his arm reconstructed since then and being racked with self-doubt I actually like applauded from my office desk which you couldn't hear cuz Deon is a long way from Argan but when he won the Sprint I was like I'm glad I'm glad I was working to see that that's that's a nice moment and I did think at that moment it's a shame it's a Sprint because I really that it doesn't it's I felt there might be some drama missing and then in the Grand Prix I was like no this actually still counts even more this is still Mega and then his brother just distracted me completely and it's like oh yeah yeah mark one [Music] even before PCO B was being dragged along a gravel trap underneath a bike he was having a pretty bad weekend and the thing we haven't got to yet in this podcast is the championship swing because he leaves Aragon 23 points behind Mar te which is certainly not something we were expecting a month ago and's just quickly delve into why PCO was struggling even before that he was only 9th in the Sprint um we've got a bunch of questions on what happened with his starts what happened with his Pace Claudio Silva says was Sprint mainly a tire issue or might he have been mentally impacted by the bad start and losing places Eric yep says what happened to Petco's start everyone's been on about his great starts a weeks he has two awful ones JD asked was B's bad start related to bad traction control settings had they said it for a certain amount of wheel spin maybe more than usual of track conditions and it proved too much Simon what went on with Petco's starts and what went on with his Sprint Pace afterwards what are your theories so my theory on well let's do it one at a time cuz I think there might be two slightly different things at play here uh the Saturday the Sprint start went wrong cuz the track was super dirty um what we've seen in the past is whenever you have one of those big slides one of those big moments off the line it I think it kind of messes up the melin a little bit um remember jge Martin in qar last year we did a massive slide off the line cooked the tire and then basically blamed mitchellan for costing him a title when everyone was like hey do you not think that weird moment you had might have done some damage to the thing that was trying to transfer 300 horsepower to the ground at the time um I I think there's an moment of that to it and he struggled as a result from it and it you know the tire didn't work um Sundays is a little bit more interesting because this is going to sound like a mad conspiracy theory uh but the I I do have photographic proof of some of it um if you go back and look at the TV pictures you can see the David B or David tardi was pretty unhappy on the grid with with kind of the officials and trying to get their attention and whatnot um before the Modo GP race after the Modo 2 race uh former 500 Grand Prix world champion Alex cier went out and did a demo lap on his NSR 500 Honda whenever PCO got to his grid spot after the sight lap there was a line of oil basically running through his grid spot and youat of the impression that came from the 500 they of the impression that that contributed to another bad start um on a grid that was already a bit bit patchy and and messy um there is photographs that quite clearly show there's a line of something spilled through P's grid spot I don't know if it's enough to kind of have caused what they're complaining about cuz the pictures were taken after the race not before the race um but maybe that's a contributing factor clearly it wasn't as bad as it was on Saturday and I think that's why it didn't cook the tire the same way but uh yeah I mean the the fundamental underlying issue is that he was on the dirty side of a really dirty track and yeah maybe whenever he realized he was third he should have spent all of warmup um like running on the left hand side of the track just to make sure cuz you don't want to go and clean it um you don't want to go and clean it after the end of the day's action with your scooter as his mentor Valentino Rossi is well aware I thought you were going to say that he should have went around trying to impede as many people as possible to get a grid penalty to move off but they're they're an increments of three so yeah yeah he'd have had to tricked someone else into doing it for someone in front of him into doing it for him slipek um Pedro Costa if you qu to we should give credit to J Martin as well something I must admit I do enjoy doing because I like what he brings to MotoG GP but I'm giving credit to sensible Jorge Martin um as Dan Neil from the members Club put it is this Martin best non-ra weekend non-ra winning weekend in M GP and vix took it bit a bit further said despite not winning a Grand Prix since Lon in May and obviously there's the Saxon ring fall in the middle is this the best stretched performances we've ever seen from jge Martin the fall in Germany finally seems to have knocked it through his head that he doesn't need to win every race by 5 Seconds to win the title I'll go as far as to suggest that a sensible Martin is a far more dangerous title threat than the fast Martin vivec I agree with you it is less fun but it is defin def better for winning championships what do you guys think about the form we're seeing from Martin at the moment I don't think it's his best weekend ever um because there's no there's not the same pressure in finishing second to Mark Marquez as there is to finishing second to Peko bnaa when you're fighting him for the title so I think it it wasn't quite his best weekend ever um in terms of his best run of form Ever I think that was sort of Barcelona through maty last year when he had you know a couple of WI really made the best of PCO being injured but no no asterisk for for this one as opposed to that one no no no but but well there is an aster in the middle of this run a form because there's there's Germany there's sax ring and the fact that he did fall off whenever he shouldn't have um that's the you know the blip and and ironically that's what ended the Run of form last year too cuz he fell off at Indonesia in literally exactly the same circumstances a comfortable you know comfortable result on the cards and he threw it away so yeah I mean it's been good but he did do that stupid thing that he always does in the middle of it so um I'm I'm not quite willing to say he's overdoing stupid things quite yet especially as he you know he hasn't been winning recently um you have to go all the way back to Leon to find that win and there should have been at least one more win in the middle of that and then his championship standings would be looking really comfortable and and they're they're they're good right now but it's because as this title fight keep showing because the two of them are sabotaging each other rather than because of his run of form not just sabotaging each other Alex crilla as well actively sabotaging the title fight yeah bloody Spaniards I like I I think it's a joke it's a joke I don't remember very well all the weekends Jorge Martin has had in Moto GP really we have a lot of Moto GP weekends I don't remember I barely remember the last one and I think I was there for it and I'm not even entirely sure remember the last weekend without Moto GP fair enough I do it was in 2013 no no uh but I think I look I I'm I'm not going to change myself on this I don't believe he's more sensible or whatever I don't believe he was massively unsensible before I think it's easy to accept finishing second to Mark Marquez at Aragon when Mark Marcus qualifies 810 clear of everybody else and dances around the track and you know finds grip where nobody else has grip it's easy to come into a weekend and go you've got this I'll just I'll just Hoover up whatever else is available and I also think you know for me it's always those crashes it's not it's usually not a rider deciding to crash or to risk crashing it's just you know this is too hard to think in that way it is it's not about how I mean sometimes it's about the pace they run but sometimes it's just about you know the groove that they find and then sometimes there's a laps in concentration that's not being sensible necessarily it's just making a mistake and mistake proofing your brain in whatever way they do it that's for me anyway so I I don't think there's been a step change but again that that's not a criticism of h Martin I think he's quick enough to win this title and he's weathered a bunch of tracks where I thought he could have lost a fair few points of to pek B but instead he's you know he's approaching the flyaways now healthy shape and yeah okay misano 1 misano 2 PCO might well draw a level or even draw ahead there but then the FlyAway start and you know it's it's game on it's properly game on if you want to get your question featured on next week's podcast after misano 1 we are doing a 7-Day free trial on patreon for the members Club at the moment this is an excellent time to check out what we're doing and we'll have some mot GP extras coming up for you in the next few weeks as well including the return of our roving reporter olle after behind the scenes Silverstone special with him somewhere else to do something a bit different which is going to be absolutely fascinating next week as well um back to the current list of questions from those already in the members Club we're going to wrap up this episode with a quick fire run through everything else you've thrown at us after the Arrogant weekend so Simon one for you to start with KH says could you elaborate on a dirty track how does it work that fresh rain makes the track dirty is it a drainage runoff issue where fresh rain washes dirts onto the track or is this an inherent design problem or just a temporary concern Simon rain track physics go I had to send vile a Wikipedia page to make him believe me that Aragon has dirty rain um it's true you get it is true yeah we're not even exaggerate you you you get a weird phenomenon here you get it at a few places actually it's a big thinger p of M as well cuz it's so close to the Sahara where um if you're somewhere that's quite arid and Dusty and there's a high winds which there always are here cuz we're in the middle of nowhere in the desert uh the wind picks up a lot of dust the dust get in the air whenever it rains the rain contains dust in it um and it it makes things dirty rather than clean like you'd expect from rain showers um it's really apparent here cuz you see it in like the the window of your higher car in the morning whenever you get up uh to head to the circuit and essentially what it means is every time it rained here it a washed away whatever rubber had been left down and B left behind a load of dust in place of that rubber and that's why um I think you can really really really see it if uh it was really visible morning warmup whenever it was still a little bit damp to throw that dust up into the into the the moisture it was coming off the track as well the bikes were filthy at the end of it um it reminded me of uh the very very first day of track action at mandica back whenever we tested there in 21 or 22 it was exactly the same phenomenon where the bikes were just coming in filthy and covered in dust and dirt um and that's what it is the rain here brings dirt instead of washing it away I'd forgotten that man Le test remember you making yourself really popular with the circuit authorities with your coverage of that that was yeah and the Indonesian government yeah whoops oh well they've let you back in um next question from Philipe Dennis or Philipe Denny or Filipe Denny I hope at least one of those has been the correct pronunciation and I apologize for my flaws um what happened to the factory Ailers on Saturday this was a question Philipe chucked in on Sunday morning they were seconds away from poll which in modern motorgp time seconds like years and in the Sprint ala Spar messed up the start and mck vinales was further down the pack the whole race now that vges Grand Prix was even more hideous on that front Val what was up with the factory a pilas yeah I mean Bas the second the rain washed away the grip and made the track weird they had no chance and I think because you know we we are used to the ailia being pretty nifty in low grip but I guess there was a difference between low grip and the stuff that was going on at Aragon specifically which Maybe even sort of benefited the bikes that are I guess good in the wet and the riders that are good in the wet and Aprilia you know when is the last time you've seen an Aprilia be good in sort of like wettish conditions I can't I can't think of a single instance honestly there's probably one not coming to my head um I the technicalities if I knew I'd probably be employed there but all all I can say is it appears that there's a very sort of narrow window at which it's the best and it appears that this here is a Prett a in particular for whatever reason is very very potent on the softer tires and you see it you know you see very it was very good and qualifying round after round after round it was very good on Friday afternoon when the weekend grip was is as at its absolute Peak we saw I think Al was second Maverick was third and at that point their weekend was was looking okay but Aragon reverted after rain and the aelas do seem to chew tires pretty pretty badly now and they just they couldn't get what was available for Aragon to work and the the Aragon the Aragon tires they weren't soft tires because the wear is is pretty significant and just for whatever reason they couldn't get it to work at all the only again the only ailia Rider who came out of this weekend with any credit is Miguel Lera and we've seen Miguel Lera before and what kind of conditions has Miguel Lera been particularly potent at before well you can you can fill out the rest of that even though then on now okay he crashed out on Su immediately but he was running was running sixth none of the other ailia sniffed sixth in any of the races weren't close the fact that he was high enough that his crash gave Pekka banar position show he was for those 20 seconds he was in the race doing doing pretty well and Al Al you know Al fought through it on Sunday uh look I I don't know only Maverick knows how much of an effort he was putting in let's let's put it that way yeah but the way he described it is like I had like five near High sides and I gave up and parked it in the pits I don't know if he gave up before he parked in the pits like maybe a few laps before because I mean he was running what moto moto 2 lap times which is not normal but there is there is clearly an operating window problem with the ailia and we should also say you know R Fernandez also had a really bad race really really bad so clearly it's just it's just a it's a finicky bike on the subject of arrogance Sur and esparo Maas Kint asks is there any chance of esparro becoming something of a ride representative when he retires like Alex vers with the gpda in F1 because after the show that's been the aragan track surface it seems heavily needed Simon you nodded straight away there I think you might rather like the idea of Al as Ryder Union Warrior I I'd like it but the problem is he'd be too good at the job and that means it'll never happen because not everyone agrees with Alisha's um rather Hardline taken a lot of issues and that includes his current fellow writers um there's a lot of stuff that Alish complains about that makes other writers roll their eyes and he he'd never get elected into the position as a result um as much as I think he'd be very very good at it uh cuz generally I think even whenever he's being a bit of um what could be deemed by some people to be an obnoxious Pratt sometimes he's doing it with his heart in the right place he's doing it with you know what he believes to be the best intentions of the championship um so yeah yeah I I think he would struggle to get elected into the role even if he would probably be very good at it yeah important thing is that he cares yeah he just like he doesn't just care and that's not to say that you know the other guys many of the other guys some of the other guys do care quite a bit about wider issues but a lot of them are like laser focused on their weekend their team's development Etc Al just you know he's enough of a fan of Moto GP but also just kind of seems to care about those matters and that's to me for a union rep that's that's the main ingredient it's very heart on sleeve with the stuff he cares about as well which is both admirable but I'm sure in a diplomatic role could be problematic sometimes um pranab shoi says this is one for Val no Factory teams made the podium which until I read that question I was like I yeah interesting didn't spot that with constantly changing C track conditions over the weekend it seemed the michelan tires couldn't keep up is this a sign that the factory teams rely too heavily on data and are less adaptable in changing conditions where satellite teams let Riders take control contr when things get unpredictable F what you reckon I don't I don't think so because I think it's just it's too circumstantial to go off on weekend but I do think what happened is and again I mean in modern MotoG GP it's not like it's unusual to see hor Martin or Pedro Costa or Mark Marquez on the podium I mean if the podium was made up of like I don't know two lcrs and an rnf ailia that wandered onto the paddock and nobody stopped it then maybe but I think it's it's more that you know what was happening during the weekend was basically like the great equalizer so at that point you know that meticulous super work that the the Cati Factory team for instance does that makes PCO and Ana ludicrously fast on Sundays the fastest that they are in the weekends they are on Sundays well it wasn't available this week in Aragon because nothing was normal cu the the lap times were fluctuating too much so I think it's it's more it's more that it equalized than it really it played into the hands of the satellite teams by equalizing things not by prioritizing the way they work if that makes sense let's dive away from Moto GP and head to moto two for our final questions hay very regular question of hay it's always appreciated during the world feed commentary of the mot race it was mentioned how the prak mot GP seat drama and this is that going to Jack Miller almost certainly at at the expense of MOT 2 leader Sergio Garcia may have had a psychological effect on Garcia who had a disastrous race today do you guys think this is true and are we witnessing a Tony arbolino style drop off in Championship contention with Garcia so Simon quickly fill listeners who didn't catch all the racing this weekend in on what's going on in Moto 2 and with Garcia and do you think not getting the Moto GP chance is playing into the dramas he's having so Sergio Garcia had an absolute disaster of a race he was his race was so bad that whenever he was running in p24 and was given a penalty for exceeding track limits a Long Lap penalty instead of taking the penalty pull into the pits and park the bike cuz things were that bad um it had been a really tough weekend for him to be fair it was it wasn't a great weekend for any of the speed up bikes this is not the kind of domination we've seen over the last few rounds some of them it was much tougher this weekend yeah and the team the Mt helmets team kind of speculated fairly openly that they thought that um Garcia was working was struggling a little bit mentally with with the Moto GP rejection and that's where this was coming from I have heard since then that two things one that is is that Garcia is not particularly happy right now but it's not with not going to m 2 it's with his side of the garage and he's actually asked if he can work with AOG gur's side of the garage next year whenever a graduates to the premier class the other thing that I've heard is that he's really not happy with the team for suggesting that he's struggling mentally because of the M GP thing whenever he feels that the actual reason that he and and I would presume some of the other speed up BOS girl bikes were struggling this weekend is because they brought a new chassis that isn't working very well and that it's it's something that's out of his hands the BOS scurs have you know they've it's been a gradual process to where you know instead of running 1 2 3 4 all weekend they only have sort of one representative up top and then you know they filter out over the rest of the over the rest of the Grid it's been clearly you know what was an easy run to the title is now not that very obviously I can see why it would be really irritating for people to suggest oh he just you know he's just in his head he's just buckling he wanted his you know Moto GP chance and he didn't get it now he's throwing his toys in the pram out of the pram I also I'm sure that's you know having some impact but it's you know this kid fought for Moto three titles you know he's this is you know Grand Prix front running is his life basically I think it's it is a little bit ridiculous to me to suggest that he's running a second and a bit off the pace in 20 5th not on the scoring pylon thing on the broadcast because his feelings have been heard now to me that's I don't buy that it's plausible I guess but it's not aam's Razer I don't think so and he is still m 2 Championship leader orbe it not by much 12 points over a gur now Lono Lopez creeping up quite fast on both of them um staying in m 2 let's end the podcast with Ferman ala Corner which you've both said you'd like to answer um Morris Henry says after yet another disastrous race with Ferman Iger do you think his mot GP career is like to be shortlived there a actually Morris your question about parelli will sa from mot GP extra that's a much bigger bigger chat Ferman eliger Val it's your right to go first why is it my right to go first you've earned it foul I'm not going to argue you've earned it longtime advocate so honestly alig's for has been you got him the ducatti seat basically yeah I'm actually I'm getting commission from him but I I should I shouldn't have said that but H his form has been really bad in recent weekends and it was particularly like the two weekends before this one they were very concerning cuz he had had no speed he was he was running you know he couldn't qualify couldn't race he was barely was barely in the same race as some of the other guys and that's you know that's not normal that's not the problem you should be having you can have a less than ideal motor 2 season but you can't have no Pace no pace is the you know the big issue I think sort of this weekend generally I think if he stays on the bike he's probably on the podium or at least fighting it out with Alonzo Lopez who I think has been really good for the podium but I think he's also buckling under the pressure which I know I just the previous answer by the way I've said I I've spent a long time going like no it's not psychological at all definitely not and now I'm here suggesting it's psychological but it's just you know he's been making wrong decisions in in Moto 2 title fight this season in races he's you know this time he crashed out in a move on Dennis onu that was never on there's no reason to do it he just you know cuz clearly he just wants to win he just wants to make up the points he wants to prove to everybody that ducatti was right in signing him that he's still a motor 2 title Contender and in that desire I think is leading him leading him astray right now because I think the speed generally is there I also think this particular patch has no bearing on what will happen in GP like in in that regard I think forget all of this see how he goes in Valencia and then go from there you know it's it's it's it's Moto GP the most important thing is how he will Jael with that Des mosichi Bay's excellent Moto Championship season did not matter and Iota when he struggled in 2019 as a rookie then his struggles in 2019 as a rookie also did not matter when Iota when he suddenly kicked into gear and then took over Factory ride and then became Champion Fabio Caro's motor 3 and motor 2 careers stopped mattering immediately once he was good in the petronis Yamaha and equally we've had a lot of you know good guys come in and just never click that's more important to DTI but also it will be worrying to daati that he's not responded to the challenges of this season it looks to me quite in the right way I think he's young and dumb and sometimes we forget how young he is and that that kind of tempers um a little bit of what's going on he is very young he he is Young by Moto 2 standards let alone you know soon to be Moto GP standards I and I I think I we we talked about this earlier about didn't we um I said that you know I think the best thing jatti could do about him they have a two-year contract with an option for two more years they should take the second two years right now and then just forget that they've signed him and just wait until he's fast again cuz it'll come because he needs to learn a bit more about life as well as being a racer and what to do and how to manage these crazy situations he's found himself and not everyone is Pedro Costa who has you know liquid nitrogen running through his Vin and does not does not nothing that happens to that boy kind of flicks the radar and stressing them out um and and I think not everyone is like that especially at that age um I wasn't and uh I think he just just needs a bit of time to mature into himself and and it'll come and he'll still be fast when it does come but it's not going to happen overnight and it's not going to happen with the whole world saying where are you where are you off for this weekend when you when you've you know CU that's essentially what's happening right now yeah but that's that's that is also part of the game that's you know you need to be able to respond to that of course youp most might come it might come with age but it might not but most writers most writers that are learning to respond to that are doing it in Moto 3 with maybe a moto 2 contract signed for the next year not a four-year Factory jaat contract and I think that that's what's making it worse at the moment for context aligar is the third youngest Rider on the mot to grid right now out of the out of the regulars 19 yeah he's that young yeah he's that young yeah that's you know clock obviously is even younger than aosta but to put in context how relatively old the rest two grid had passed me by that's mad Jake Dixon who will probably win the title potentially is that's a turn around in sentiment like I to be fair earlier today I wrote a makeer piece with an Alonzo Lopez title so clearly I'm just I'm not committing to anything I'm completely useless I alono Lopez I I will be fast enough to win the title but will do everything in his power to make sure that doesn't happen this seems like a common a common theme of MOT 2 title fights yeah yeah yeah nobody wants and that's why who did not score a single point for the first fting races of the season is now actually looking slightly ominous anyway that's Pedro Costa cropping up there as well reminds me Pedro Costa back on the podium this weekend first time in ages looking excellent and yet so much other stuff happened and I'm going to blame again Alex Marquez for this mostly means we haven't even discussed Pedro Costa but I've Got a Feeling we might once or twice and say the next 15 years so it'll work out fine thank you listeners for the questions for the members Club thank you for your patience with us as ever I hope at least a few of you applauded had an emotional tear did something other than just look at Marquez winning and go well he was fast than the first lap of practice so whatever I have my party then and we'll be back in your ears after missano 1 next week see you [Music] then the athletic