Halsey Pt 2: Overcoming Postpartum Depression and Clinical Ketamine Therapy That Changed Everything

there's a lot of commentary about my appearance a lot a lot of commentary about my appearance about my weight loss the weight loss in my face about my hair loss you know it was um and a lot of the accusations were sort of for the worst you know the the Worster of of the types of accusations and a lot of what I was hearing was that I was irresponsible for looking that way and having a platform in front of young women not heart breaking it's it's just the body I have you know that was the body I got at that time and I needed to I wanted to continue you know doing what makes me happy and brought me brought me light welcome back to part two of our Hy episode you are not going to want to miss this [Music] I don't think we were probably planning on getting into this but you know I I have no problem talking about it I'm so grateful that you recommended the the ketamine Clinic to me oh my God thank you I want to cry if you talk about it it changed my life it changed my life you know I don't think that I would be able to sit here and talk to you guys about what those past two and a half years were like if I hadn't had that experience but the reason you recommended it to me is because you were like Ashley this is is what I would do and I was like cool whatever you would do is what I'm going to do she's had so much trauma this past two years so much I mean I feel like delivering a child is traumatic physically right not emotionally but physically and then she got sick and she had all this work and I mean your relationship it was just too much and when she got better I'm like now you need to treat your PTSD from the past two years and that's exact what she did tell us about it for it I mean she's like you know congratulations you're better but if you don't fix you know and and take care of this you're going to get sick again because you're going to be so can you talk about that process this is I mean very interesting I think people are going to want it's is you know all these New Frontiers in and and is not new though oh it's not okay well I think it's becoming more popularized in like in in more like kind of like everyday conversation but the particular Clinic that I went to has existed for over 10 years um and they've served they've you know they've treated like they've done 60,000 sessions or something like that um how many sessions did you have to and what's the process you go in yeah so the reason I so the reason I want to do it is because I was like all right you know my health is better and I don't feel better and I was like I'm still really tired I'm still in a lot of pain I was like but my lupus is you know is in remission and my other condition condition is being suppressed I was like and of course my first instinct was like something else is wrong it's another disease I was like oh my gosh I was like I have to go through this all over again I have to go figure out what this thing is now that's causing this and then it kind of hit me one day I was like you're depressed youed yeah like you're tired you're tired and most of the reason I was tired I think was because when I when I started to feel better I wasted no time I just went I'm better and I just wanted to navigate the world like everything was fine and nothing ever happened instead of taking time to like really internalize what had happened and and and sit with it and like Dr a said I didn't tell anyone for the entirety of the time that I was you know trying to get my illnesses under control um I went to with my you know with doctors being heavily involved you know I did concerts I performed in front of like 50,000 people in India or in Mexico or in Spain or I did Fashion Week I did you had a broken toe at some point I filmed a movie I know I shot a movie I mean I was just you know I and I needed I needed to keep doing wasn't that I needed to keep working it was important to me to remain creative cuz that was what was helping me you know was being able to be creative during this time and you know I think it was hard though because I was really internalizing a lot of it I wasn't talking to people about what I was going through and I felt a lot of Shame CU there were things I couldn't do or things I had to say no to and people would get really upset not knowing the circumstances and they wouldn't take a vague answer I couldn't say you know something's come up it's something with my health for personal reasons it's like they wanted the specifics to know if the answer was good enough for them you know instead of just understanding that I quite simply am saying no yeah um there's a lot of commentary about my appearance a lot a lot of commentary about my appearance about my weight loss the weight loss in my face about my hair loss you know it was um and a lot of the accusations were sort of for the worst you know the the worser of of the types of accusations and a lot of what I was hearing was that I was irresponsible for looking that way and having a platform in front of young women it's not heartbreaking heart just the body I had you know that was the body I got at that time and I needed to I wanted to continue you know doing what makes me happy and brought me brought me light and so anyway you know I came to Dr a and I said to her I was like I'm better but I'm not better you know I think I'm really depressed and initially I had asked her about you know ssris or you know what she what she kind of thought um and the conversation about doing ketamine infusion therapy came up and I'd heard about it and I'd considered it um I did it I mean I went like 2 days after you brought it up to me I was like get me in the first appointment I was like I had done a bunch of research tell you she listen like I'm there I'm I'm I'm there and and you know basically the way that it works is you go to the clinic you have a psychiatric evaluation ketamine is really helpful for um like really stubborn depression that doesn't respond well to ssris um for like clinical depression with longevity so people have been depressed for like really long periods of time it helps with Su suicide iation um complex PTSD um there's even some like suggestion that it can help with anxiety OCD and especially postpartum depression which I realized I was still experiencing that was my light bulb moment was that I had postpartum depression I got sick I still had postpartum depression I started getting better I still had postpartum depression you know my son's not even you know depending on when this comes out either maybe just turned three or know at the time he's two it's very realistic to still have postpartum depression after 2 years especially given the circumstances of events that had that occur wham bam situation yeah yeah and so but I was like you know again and this is with the self forgiveness thing where I was like why shouldn't still be postpartum it's been two years you know and I did some research and I was like oh my gosh you know this can last a year two years 3 years four years sometimes for some people um especially if you've had a traumatic labor um or if you have you know experience with loss like attributed and then you have a successful pregnancy you know there's a lot of reasons why it can happen so you go to the to to have a consultation they give you psychiatric evaluation you come back you sit in a chair this is my experience of it basic vital signs you know like blood pressure um pulseox see down they explain the whole process to you and the way the process works is that they hook you up to an IV um they put an IV catheter in um they flush it sometimes they give you an antina medication and um they prepare to begin a drip of camine and the way that the ketamine works is it creates sort of like a disassociative experience um it's it's perfectly safe they use it in ERS a lot um especially when they operate on children um it's really common for kids with like broken bone b or like kids who need surgery um as like a prean preanesthetic anesthesia we use it for for a lot of anesthesia and so um you know your memory is completely intact um I had full motor control of my body um if the way I would explain it is you know we all have our uh imagination of what like a psychedelic experience is like you know cartoons and dancing bears and like whatever else this is feels more like a dream it's more like you're having a really intense dream um and there's like you know some body warmth and calmness as well but the reason why it's different than other psychedelic therapy is because they can titrate the dose which means that they can give you more if you need it or they can give you less and because it's from an IV the effects of that can happen almost immediately how do you know if you need more or less well you uh you usually won't know that you need more until you've already done it a couple times also the doctors look for a clinical sign that the ketamine is working what they'll do is they'll take a finger and put it in front of your face and they look to see how your eyes go if your eyes sort of stutter across it's called um I can't remember what it's called when your eyes do that but it's a it's essentially a um a sign to the doctor that the ketamine is working the way it's supposed to what does that mean well the way it's supposed to work is that it creates a disassociative you know sense of um sense of self kind of for me it allowed me to process really difficult thoughts and feelings in a in a way where I felt really safe and borderline apathetic about them I mean apathy may be the wrong word a lot of people have a different experience they cry they laugh they relive old trauma for me I started going back way back before I was sick to old old trauma my first session and it was almost like my brain was talking to me and was like you don't need to do that you're over for that and I was like oh okay and then I kind of started traveling you know to the newer stuff okay did y'all 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Branch basics.com again that's code shmd for 15% off when you purchase a starter kit from Branch Basics today's podcast is sponsored by midi health I recently met the founder of midi Health at this incredible conference for women that I attended on the east coast and I was so inspired because she started midi health because she couldn't find what she needed as she entered menopause so many great companies are started that way if you're a woman over 40 experiencing menopause or or per menopause you don't have to go through it alone when I turned 45 I started experiencing all these symptoms I had never dealt with before like hot flashes brain fog trouble sleeping and just overall not feeling like myself at a certain point I was pretty desperate for help and that's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about interviewing doctors that can arm you with the information you need to be your own health Advocate and feel better if you're dealing with symptoms brought on by hormonal changes it's 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like a negative way I felt really happy and so one of the things I have you do is a is a be depression index to determine you know sort of on a scale of like 1 to 60 or something like that how depressed you are in my first day I filled out the BDI and I scored a 49 and I didn't know what it scored out of and I remember thinking that must not be that bad the day that I left the clinic score to one that's what ketamine does so for it to work you know they've used it for many years you stack it uh this specific Clinic that she went to they stack it six times that's the most General protocol the every infusion takes about an hour M and you go in you you can drive there you can take an Uber but you have to someone needs to pick you up or you have to get a ride back uh because you're not able to drive uh the process is about hour to you know hour and 15 minutes with the IV placement you have to give yourself about hour and a half at the clinic you do it six times they usually do it three times the first week two times the second week and one the third and there are a lot of clinics that U might do a ketamine for four and a half hours that might help the patient for two months but it doesn't have a good long-term result dos is better because the way that it works is ketamine increases neuroplasticity in your brain so it allows new neural Pathways to develop inside of your brain and so um I remember being really anxious after my first session because I felt like I didn't do a good it's me felt like I didn't do a good enough job didn't do a good enough job with really I swear I said it to the psychiatrist who came in to speak to me afterwards I was crying and I was like I just feel like I'm not doing it right and like I'm going to do it wrong and it's not going to work and he was like listen Ashley he was like listen what how you could go float to you know the Alps in your session it doesn't it doesn't really matter you know specifically if you're not there to to to unpack like complex or press trauma if you're there for depression especially like he was like you could go be in Bikini Bottom like you know what I mean he's like we don't care like where you are he's like what happens is the 72 hours after the infusion is when neuroplasticity is at its highest so that's your opportunity to go home and to make lifestyle changes you know or to journal or to deal with feelings or to think about you know tough decisions you have to make in your life and see how you feel in this state I know for me like the way my depression manifests is with executive function like problem so like I and I've no problem admitting this like I find it really hard to take a shower wash my face brush my teeth yeah and that's why I had a hard time noticing I was depressed this time because having a toddler means you get yourself out of bed you drive to school you go to the park and I was like well I'm doing all these things so I must not be depressed because last time I was depressed I couldn't get out of bed I had a harder time noticing it because I was showing up in my life but I wasn't present I didn't feel like I was in the driver's seat um so what I did is you know I went home and I was like okay every day for this two and a half weeks I'm going to make sure that I wash my face in the morning wash my face before bed I'm going to take a bath I'm going to do yoga I'm going to spend meaningful time with my son you know where I and I don't mean meaningful in terms of quantity I mean quality of time going to think about the relationships in my life what's serving me what's not do I have old contentions and old resentments I'm holding on to did you notice it right away I I noticed it after about the second session third usually the with the first session all the negatives oh you text me right I was so happy you texted me Dr R texted me and said good luck with your first session do not judge it after the first one and I was so glad you did cuz I left the first one crying right the first one is very negative lot of trauma comes out so a lot of people get scared and don't want to do the second one but by the third after the third session they start feeling better and better oh yeah I was making changes left and right in my life I've never heard of any complications with ketamine and I've referred patients for years and if I what shocks me Ash is that more doctors don't recommend it Ian it doesn't shock me but it's just like nobody talks about it usual I was pissed as I usually am when I discover something incredible that I have I was mad I left and I was like you mean to tell me that I was like on all these medications and I was struggling for so long and like you know nobody's talking about this I left there like Oprah I came home I looked at my mom I said you're getting ketamine therapy I looked at my best friend I said you're getting ketamine therapy I looked at my boyfriend I said nothing's even wrong with you but you're getting ketamine therapy that's what I going to do it this is the best thing that's ever happened I must have sounded crazy but they all saw such a legit change in me that they're all completely you know they're completely sold how often do you have to do it so after the first two and a half weeks really depends the best thing to do is go back about two months later for six to eight weeks later for um like a follow-up dose sort of like a booster two yeah booster it's like two sessions two days apart and then it's kind of your prerogative that I they want to keep people going as long as possible in between sessions for some people can be 3 months some people could be years some people never go back yeah some people never go back wow but what's what's amazing to me is and you know you you guys will be surprised but I make maybe five referrals a day to cam what really oh my god well I think you also have a I don't maybe this is wrong but I'm I'm you know I was a painter I'm creative I was a fashion designer you're a singer like a lot of my friends that are my very creative friends my musician friends my they I don't know we seem like as a group to suffer maybe more with anxiety and depression everyone is anxious and depressed and you know maybe because I treat PCOS patients maybe but it's it's very common well I think also causation correlation I think when you're a creative you also might be more comfortable expressing it other people might be suffering more silently that's something that I kind of I think noticed just in my experience like I have a lot of peers in the industry and you know the thing with thing with ketamine um that's also really interesting is that it does also work for like in small doses with um chronic pain um and usually that's an injection like an IM injection not a an infusion um but you know I noticed too that it was kind of a double whammy for me because when I left I was like my my pain feels a lot better I think the best way that I can explain and encourage someone to do it is that drugs are scary yeah drugs are scary the environment that I did it in was fully staffed with CMAs nurse practitioners doctors psychiatrists on board it was it's you know it's highly monitored it's highly regulated like it's very very very safe if this is something you decide to do make sure that you're going to an accredited Clinic don't go to just someone in the garage who decides to do it like it's not how this works like there was and there was also full reintegration they didn't send me home just like you know a tender shell of a person because of it there was like you know there was a talk therapy that was involved there's followup but the thing that was the most encouraging about it for me was that I can't stress enough how much I still felt like myself because I think there was a fear with like you know what we consider to be psychedelic drugs um and you know ketamine is in a way but also you know it's it's a hospital anesthetic you know I think there's a fear that you know you're going to lose yourself or become of the person who's in the street being like the aliens like you know what I mean I couldn't have been my sense of humor was the same my interests were the same and I remain the same but through the duration of the treatment you know I was having these experiences in the confines of the treatment but I was more than able to come home take a call about business take a meeting you know some people need a little bit more integration more space I took the first week to myself okay I was like nobody talked to me I want to be by myself I want to you know see how this goes deal with my feelings and what I found was for me I could reintegrate really really well and by my fourth you know treatment I was like in the car on the way to my first day there I was listening to like you know uh like ambient music meditating in the car being like okay so what's this going to be like by the fourth treatment I was like yeah tell them I'll call him back I you know what I mean and I walked like it was like it was a regular appointment um and I just let the medicine do its job which is to create this increase in neuroplasticity that allows for the the like the rep the the repairing of these these neural Pathways that I think are so common in depression um there's also evidence that it's helpful for um like cognitive Improvement so you know you're learning while this is happening and those things are staying with you so what you learn about yourself and new habits that you learn they remain that's amazing that's why I always offer it to patients who suffer from depression and they don't want to use medication I rather do ketamine than go on long-term medication I have a patient she's actually coming on our podcast she took Zoloft all her life finally one day last year I told her why don't you go try ketamine for you know six sessions she came this year she said she came off of her zoft after ketamine she said she got superpowers that how she describes it and she's been off of Zola she's the happiest she's been she started the startup and the one thing that surprises me is that doctors don't offer it to their patients we're offering zolof and Lexapro I mean I still do it for patients who don't want to go down that path but I rather do six first of all ketamine we have I don't know 30 some years of data on it it's probably most studied medication on the planet we use it all the time yeah but Dr R not everybody is as like Patient First as you are and ketamine can't be monetized in the same way as other pharmaceutical drugs right right you know like that's the reality is you're never thinking about that you I know you like deeply and I know that you're not a person who can be bought and I think that you know by far in a way especially given my experiences I think that health professionals are people to be trusted and I think people should trust their doctors and listen to them and I think it's an industry full of really good people however I do think that it's not the case for everyone right and I think there are Bad actors and you know part of it is that because Kine has existed for so long because it's so cheap because it's you know it can't be monopolized or because the patent exists in the way that it does it's like it doesn't benefit anyone to give it to people I know I sound like a crazy person right now we we've talked about it so much we want to do a whole episode on it actually listen I've I've I had a woman on the floor of my office crying one day it was a Friday afternoon I called her psychiatrist and I said this patient needs help I'm not a psychiatrist she needs help she's she's very depressed and he said we have her call me on Monday I'm like what about ketamine can I send her to ketamine over the weekend and he replied well you can send her but it's not going to work so I looked at my patient I literally grabbed her keys I put her in a car I ubered her to ketamine yeah she was really sick you either have to hospital them but I didn't want to send her to the hospital cuz what's going to happen at the hospital you know those environments are right especially now and I'm like you know what I'm better off sending her to ketamine Friday night like maybe Saturday and then we'll do another one by Monday I'll have her out and that's exactly what happens if you see her now you'll never know this woman did ketamine it was it's the first thing I'm going to do after I have my next baby yeah postpartum are you think about having a baby right now I have a lot of work to do right tell me what you're doing right now tell me what's next did you know that 80 to 90% of Americans suffer from some type of gut issue I'm always hearing about how important gut health is but it's hard to know what the right products to buy are according to research 99.9% of the probiotics on the market die in your stomach acid before they get to where they're needed even the 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betterhelp visit betterhelp.com GMD today to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp hp.com GMD you know that smell of the beach and the Fresh Ocean Breeze in a hot summer day it's one of the reasons that I wanted to move to Los Angeles I love it and I can't get enough of it recently I've been using oia's andaria algae body oil and it brings that feeling right into my daily routine and guys I'm honestly obsessed it has that summer in a bottle smell with uplifting notes of mango Mandarin grapefruit lime and citrus I'm always looking for ways to keep my skin looking fresh and young and oia's andaria algae body oil is clinically proven to instantly improve Skin's elasticity and deeply moisturiz I promise I slather it all over myself I've been putting it on every day after the shower and I've noticed a huge difference in the texture of my skin it leaves my skin silky soft and unbelievably glowing I love knowing that OC is products are clean vegan cruelty-free and climate neutral certified Dr a and I created CMD to empower women and I honestly love that oia is a women founded and led company that has been making seaweed infused skincare for over 28 years get healthy glowing skin for summer with clean vegan Skin and Body Care from oia get 10% off your first order sitewide with code shmd at oam malibu.com you'll get free samples with every order and free shipping on orders over $60 head to oce am malibu.com and use code shmd for 10% off I um you know I'm I'm I finished an album you know I just released a record um it was kind of like the start of the record cycle so you know the next couple months years for me are going to be putting out more music and to share that hopefully I hope you're so good thank you I have a question would Dr Wallace let you get pregnant this time you know what do you think I think he would I think so too I think he would I'm hoping he would I you know why I think he would because you are my doctor oh no I think we can do it so highly of you and he knows that if anyone could do it it would be me you know and you just worry that if she got pregnant no I just don't want you know it's not the pregnancy I worry about I'll handle the pregnancy just postpartum what I when I saw her in my office been approved for pregnancy which is a newish but I don't even think you're going to need it during pregnancy but one thing we need to do is iMed B was my little medicine I was like oh my gosh but started right away postpartum probably I have to talk to him yeah I fell off a cliff I couldn't believe it and to be honest with you you know this this isn't necessarily something that I was like planning on talking about but I do think it's relevant for people who are watching and who are listening the the personal consequences you know of that go far beyond my own experience because you know I was postpartum I was having all of these new challenges with my health and it really affected my personal relationships you know I certainly think that maybe the changes in the relationship and the emotional changes the intimacy changes the physical changes coupled with the stress of having a new baby you know this is recipe for disaster and so for autoimmune patients specifically dealing with postpartum if they do like like I said fall off a cliff you feel like the world is ending and if there's not a lot of like information about what's going on I think sometimes the people in your life can maybe you know it can affect your personal relationships in like a really significant way and so you know I it's it certainly changed everything about the way that I navigate my personal relationships you know cuz like I felt like a person who was always on my best behavior and always tried like 100% and this really taught me that you know people need to be able to love you when you can't do or be or perform or you know whatever like I would say sicknesses like this are the the they these perfect metaphors that we use in our Rel relationships when we haven't been sick right I hear people all the time who are in good health be like yeah me and her don't talk all that much but if I ever got like really sick or if I ever had like whatever you know I know that she'd be at my house every day yeah I haven't seen him in a while but I know that if I was ever like super sick like like you know I'm talking like you know I'm in the hospital like everything like I get diagnosed with something crazy like he'd be there like making me soup cooking me meals like helping me blah blah blah we use these metaphors to project ideals onto the people in our lives and those relationships sometimes exist off of an imagined idea of what someone would do for you if that happened to me and I'll tell you that not everybody showed up in the way that I told myself in my head that they would and that was crazy was to be like okay you know relationships of mine that were kind of existing and writing on this hypothetical oh but I know that they if anything ever I know that they would and then it does happen and they don't you have to re-evaluate everything that you think of the people around you you know how is it being a single mom you know it's been it's was challenging you know um it's funny because I'm not a single woman but I'm a single mom you know I'm in a relationship and it's been exceptional I I make the joke all the time you know when I met my partner I was a single mom and and uh you know I thought I was on my deathbed basically and I was like hey look at me let's make out and I tease him all the time you know he was like I want that one you know and it was um I just I think having you know the right fit of a romantic relationship you know cuz sometimes it's not anyone's fault sometimes it's just not the right fit um and we're the right fit and you know because of that he I think has the ability to really show up in a way that has given me so much healing you know and has made me like be able to accept myself and allow me to say when I don't feel well or when I don't want to do something or you know to be like hey I know we were supposed to go to brunch do you want to go sit in a doctor's office for 3 hours instead they have candy you know what I mean like um how did y'all meet we met we' known each other kind of like tangentially for a while then we ended up meeting um when I was like abroad for for some shows and you know we started spending some time together and I'll never forget you know it was like a couple weeks in to talking to him and I was like wow I'm having two very new experiences right now which is one I have to explain to this person the like the reality of that I'm you know like I'm a single mom like and how it's going to make everything about this different um I'm also evaluating him in an entirely different way because I'm having to decide if this is a person that I potentially want to have around my child you know and then lastly I'm also like I have to tell him I'm sick yeah I was like I've never had to do that before I've never had to look at a person that I you know want to have an intimate relationship with and say like so this this this and this and are you scared are you going to run away is it gross are you turned off do you not like it does it seem like too much work is it too much effort am I hard to love what's going on you know like having this whole experience and I am I'm grateful every day that it was him you know I'm really grateful every day that it was him because I think it would have just absolutely broke me if it if I had had a different experience you know but all in all I uh being a mom in general I don't no idea what I'm doing I'm my best we never do it doesn't matter if you have I I have five children but I have three stepchild two month I still don't know what I'm doing half the time Ser like there's you can have 50 of them and you still don't know what you're doing my son's really smart he's totally obsessed with me he's very cute he's he's perfectly healthy and I just like I can't imagine it gets better than that you know Mom will get better than that every day gets better and then it's just different problems teenagers and then it's just a whole well he's had it easy since the day he was born since Dr a gave me such an easy labor you know we're going do it again yeah I mean I think what it took would it took under four minutes to be born yeah what superwoman I keep saying it thank you so much for today like you have like opened your heart and you have shared so many amazing things that are going to help so many women and you are exactly the person that Dr a told me that you were going to be very much are you're just it's it's no secret easy love but you know you are you're incredible you're so it's no secret of why you are where you are because light will follow you and you will continue to do these amazing things and I can't wait to beat baby number two I really appreciate that and I really just want to thank you guys both obviously Dr you have a million and five things to thank you for but also just for the fact that you do this because you know so a common theme I think of so much of the things that I talked about today was that um I just didn't know I didn't know who to talk to I didn't know who to ask I didn't have the resources and I didn't know that I'd be believed and a lot of the time I wasn't you know and so I think that this type of education is just so it's it's Paramount you know it's deeply deeply important and like you know a podcast could save someone's life an article could save someone's life a Twitter post could save someone's life you know we've we've seen this podcast this one with you will save a lot of people I I'm certain I'm certain of it and I'm really grateful that I got the the privilege to be a part of it so thank you guys we love you thank you for opening up your heart your experiences all of it love you love you too now can I go show you pictures of the baby thanks so much for joining us today on shmd remember if you want to own your health a good place to start is by following us on social media at shmd podcast and by subscribing to our show on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast for takeaways from today's episode visit our website shmd podcast.com we'll see you next time on shmd this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only it is not intended as a substitute for a physician's medical advice you should regularly consult your medical provider in matters relating to your own health even though we share our honest beliefs on chmd some of the products and services we discuss may involve sponsorships or paid advertising [Music]