Tim Ard's livestream

e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for welcome to Thursday night saws hope y'all are doing well hopefully all the sound and everything is up we'll see it looks like we have a a picture and all I'm Tim welcome this Thursday night it's uh August 1st the first Thursday in uh in August 2024 and let's see I've got uh Warren is checking in hey Warren see if we get everybody lined up here tonight there he is you're muted you can unmute there there we are all right so we the um the waiting room worked yeah so far oh man do you have a good week yeah it's been busy yeah really busy I uh see we did gosh I'm trying to remember the days um Tuesday did two pine trees um both required climbing but uh my friend Brent was climbing so I was just running ropes for them um and failing the the sticks that were left um they were that was in Stone Mountain and uh is pretty close to the house so that was that was a lot of fun um and then let's see we had the severe thunderstorms move through and yesterday we pulled a tree off a house using some rigging and stuff like that and then today was the first of three days of training with the uh with the the ground operator training that we've been working on so how's that going it's going really well yeah we got seven guys um signed up and so we did the classroom stuff today um more of it's like you know more of the demonstration kind of thing um and they worked on their board cuts a little bit and then uh tomorrow we move on to the the fing uh we got a couple trees lined up and they're going to walk through the five-step plan and everything like that and then after that hope hopefully we're doing that in the morning because the heat has been absolutely ridiculous um so hopefully we get through that um and then we're back to the classroom a little bit for uh the limming and bucking section and then we'll go back out in the field do that and then we got ropes on Saturday and that will conclude the uh the training so it's been really well uh it's going really well and the guys have really uh really enjoyed it so far their favorite topic has been the uh the tooth Anatomy kind of putting together how the uh how the sharpening process is and uh just the how the different parts of the teeth work together um in order to to cut properly and it made a lot of sense now um some some guys were already using two in ones and they're like I just used them because they worked I didn't know how they worked or anything like that and so explaining the parts of the tooth and everything they uh they really connected the dots and um kind of had some Epiphany so it was good very good very good and that's that's siren project right yeah yeah it is so you got you got seven in that and uh tell everybody a little bit about what siren project is and what you got going um yeah so we're a Disaster Response organ organization at the heart of it uh all we do is focus on Tree Care um after disasters but we also do some local Outreach um we have some local partners that we uh do tree care for so just basic removals and stuff like that um um and we're uh really affiliated with the George Arbor Association and a lot of us are Isa certified arborous and uh climbers and uh all that stuff but we also have guys that don't have a lot of experience in tre care um that that we trrain um inhouse now and so uh yeah we just kind of go around the southeast mainly and um support those communities that have been impacted by severe weather so and uh you got website they can go to yes yeah it's ww. Sirens project.org um and we also I guess semi officially through the organization we uh you know I've been doing some design work um and uh yeah the 3D model the teeth the 3D printed teeth I should say been doing good I sold four more of those today actually well that's a handy tool to to work with and and uh I don't know if anybody's ever seen or not but this is this is kind of what it what it looks like here so and uh so it uh it gives you ability to kind of point out the parts of the chain and the tooth anyway and be able to cover a little bit of sharpening stuff so it makes it makes it pretty nice so but that's that's super cool and um yeah there was a lot of a lot of wind damage I think around North Georgia yeah there's a some pretty strong storms yesterday yeah did you guys get any issues from um there was a I saw a few few messages there was some things treewise but around Rome but uh it was just a a lot of lightning and a lot of lot of wind but not not a lot of damage I don't think yeah we unfortunately had a think I think the only fatality out of that whole storm system was in our County in Cherokee County um 27-year-old young man um was crushed by a by looked like a large large oak tree um just I think several hundred feet from his house um he was on his way home when it blew through for my understanding and unfortunately just uh you took his life so it's kind of kind of a tragic situation for sure yeah there was I I heard two or three different instances where there was across the country there was some some injuries and fatalities so it's been been Rock and rolled and there's another one Brewing I saw yeah invest 97l kind of watching that to see what's what's going to become of that whether it's going to be a Florida strike or you know what the intensity is going to be and everything and then Omaha um Nebraska got it really bad yesterday I think at one point like 30% of the state without was without power of course I think 30% of the state probably lives in Omaha yeah I think Chris said he be a few minutes late he's going to check in and U okay David David's been up North Carolina I think they traveling back this evening so I I don't think he's going to going to join us and uh um I think Keith is is down in South Africa so man I think he he'll be uh joining us tonight he said it was about the middle of the night there so oh my God didn't work out too well but uh yeah I didn't I don't really have too much planned for tonight didn't know if there's any any questions that uh are out there that that uh people like to to throw at the panel but Chris should be on here in in a in a little while I did um did you did you have any any questions or issues things come up um nothing uh nothing out of the uh ordinary um trying to think if there was any kind of hot item questions from from training today um no I can't I can't really think any if anything comes to me I'll I'll be sure to mention it all right I'll let the wheels turn a little bit but last week we went over some of the different uh little bit of the filing tools and that kind of thing and that that video I went through and edited our guests out of it and so it it's out there with a a little bit of explanation on the twoin one tool and the the fur tools so they can they can check on that looks like Chris is checking in here nice so need logging on hey bud how are you sir how are you we got warring here tonight looks like you got some sun man oh yeah D it's been hot good week is getting uh getting all the gear ready uh got a new piece of rigging equipment the uh grcs so excited to try that thing out yeah the goods yeah yeah so that's one of the that's one of the trunk mount lowering devices raising devices yeah yeah yeah excited it excited to get it going in the fields so I got a team leaving here on uh Monday headed to Houston I'm headed to Georgia to do some training and then I'll catch up with them very good very good so you you had a bunch of tricky situations over the past couple weeks I saw oh man it was uh just trees on top of houses everywhere I think most of the time when people see that it's a category one they think oh that's not that bad just a category one hurricane but the wind blew 75 miles an hour for four hours so uh There Were Trees on top of houses everywhere we the reason I'm sending the team back is we still had 60 we hadn't looked at well before we left so yeah well I I know you know a lot of people don't think about they do you know they hear about the hurricanes and all but then there's usually hundreds of tornadoes and things that are spurred off of those things and that that moves it way in land you know so yeah Warren sent me some information which is helpful kind of where the tornado spawned off so that uh that got my assessors in the right directions yeah he's pretty good weatherman is he oh yeah yeah yep good to know a good weather man hey we're going to get on a storm Chase one of these days I think he's chasing a few yeah I'm on the road enough I don't think I can chase anything else and uh what town are you g to be in on this next next trip you still looking for volunteers yeah yeah we'll be in Cypress Texas so still need volunteers we got all the equipment all the saws all the PPE um be the fifth through the 15th so see us and we had one of the guys uh Robin came that's been watching Thursday night saws he came heck of a steel mechanic uh had a couple saws with some issues and he fixed them up for us so good stuff very good very good and so if they're interested they can go to godsick crew.org is that right yeah go to godsick crew.org you can click on uh Cypress Texas and all the informations right there and so they can they can contact you to to be able to uh take care of those things I was going to ask you Chris um kind of go through a little bit as far as uh information as as what you do on training Robin's here on online he just checked in and Keenan let's see Keenan said should sign in to your Zoom call but it's too nice outside right now we're on 98 Degrees in Canada so uh let's see and Robin just says I'm here so very good very good uh Chris tell us a little bit about uh the training and stuff that that you do um when you when you have a a site open up and you you y'all move in and and you set up a a I guess a what do you call it headquarters or area yeah when we set up a deployment so let's say that you're just fresh we don't know you know I don't know you from anybody you just show up so we do what we call our yellow training that's what you go through um which is about four hours worth of training and that gets you setup where you can cut trees that are laying on the ground all of our trees are tagged yellow the trees that are not dangerous laying on the ground um there's there's a lot of misconception when it comes to that because the tree could be extremely dangerous laying on the ground so this class is for a tree that's not dangerous it's laying on the ground we tag them yellow if you come to a class we go through the the training as far as limbing and bucking but then I put you with a skilled sawer uh who works with you the whole time you're there because at the end of the day we want to get people to a a to a place where they can cut you know fell trees and and work on dangerous trees that are laying on the ground but uh so that's kind of how it works very good and uh you you have the the service truck there that handles a lot of the sharpening and making sure the equipment and all is good shape you say you got PPE and those kinds of things that are available for people yeah and you you touch base on a little bit of operation and stuff like that oh yeah yeah definitely yeah yeah to me if you don't know how to sharpen a saw you shouldn't be running it you need to know how it operates how it works what makes it work the way that the tooth works so we go through all of that and then yeah we got a couple saw mechanics they uh they work at night to keep the saw sharp they clean them they go through all the safety Fe make sure all that's functioning properly they inspect the chats the help I think we're we're losing your sign oh yeah I'm I'm driving back I'll be home in about five minutes and I'll have WiFi there so all right yeah I'll be home very good very good so we got the got some good training going on on the uh the disaster relief so that's that's a good thing um just had uh David vosler from up in ader rondex just uh sign in there say it's 80 degrees up there and a lot of rain so you're having a having a mess up that way but uh don't see any any other questions at this point I had a a couple interesting things you know people uh get talking about running saws and stuff and and one of the one of the things um that I I picked up this week and maybe maybe I'll put a let's see if I put a uh a share over here it's uh that that come up uh there it is yes is a whole whole thing sh them with the pictures um for the most part I see there you go there you go okay move it up a little bit but there's a this is one I I picked up and this is this kind of interesting this this uh has an electric electric saw what kind of perked my interest on it but this was from a matte darge and uh here's a general reminder of why we wear protection even on the hottest of days of the year only using one of my MSA 220s with 14-inch bar working down on my knees fairly safe and secure position and it took me completely by surprise flicked out the wood into my leg and my H steel class one protected trousers did exactly what they meant to do and sto the chain dead in a fraction of a second so the chain didn't even get through all the fiber still had a a few layers left and I ended up with a bit of a bruise and not a half a dozen stitches or worse so Nita need a new set of trousers but that's definitely cheaper than a new rig so you know I see a lot of people carving and stuff and shorts and all kinds of different things but Matt Matt uh he I guess had already made the decision to kind of protect himself and then when I saw the electric saw people talk about that the electric saws don't always work with chaps or leg protection and uh at 220 stopped it without going through all of the layers so and I imagine he had a pretty sharp chain because he's a he's a wood carver yeah a saw artist that did come up in the training today to one of the guys asked um about the electric saws and he said you know I heard that chaps aren't you useful against electric saws so I had to clear that that myth up for them there's a lot of that going around isn't there yeah seemed like it yeah that's a a lot of people uh they don't well you know it's like I always say it it's better than a pair of blue jeans either way you want to look at it but uh yeah they're not they're not designed to uh to absolutely stop it every time I got I got another one here and this is this is a from one of the the suppliers which is doing a really good job around the country I think you guys have have some of this from clogger Pete he said uh in his his statement there is that training habits and attitude comprise the fence at the top of the cliff so your PPE is a small cushion for you to land on at the bottom of the cliff in the case of clogger a very comfortable cushion but it's still at the bottom of the cliff and I know a lot of lot of people have have had success with their their PPE garments and I saw Robert on here reason why I uh I pulled this one off but Dave Hamil said the best practices guidelines combined with ongoing input from experienced operators is the Anchor Point allowing us to peer over the cliff Edge and uh must as it's nice to see a decent cushion at the bottom and the other comment that was on here that I I uh I didn't get you know I said you know that's uh your first first form of U of uh you know reducing the chances is is uh your training and then the the next thing is is thinking through the the PPE is that that cushion at the bottom of the cliff you know yeah so it's uh it's important that we we think about it doesn't make any difference who we are or how much time we've had it it's very easy to uh to uh have have an issue there so you want to make sure that you you have all of it that you can so let's see here we had keen and add a thing on here any thoughts on clearing brush saws not much is out there training wise um yeah Kanan there's some there's some pretty good uh materials on clearing saw use that husna and steel has um there was a video that was out at one time but there's there's also uh some booklets that are that are out there on the on the clearing saw use directional failling with clearing saws and uh those kinds of things so um I used to do a good bit of of training with them over the years with the line clearing Crews and line maintenance that kind of stuff and then also we did pre-commercial thinning training and that was a a video that saurin did with with steel I think I think it still may be out there on the internet so you can Google it on the steel site but it U it and I'm sure they've got something in a a newer version of that out also but um I don't I don't know of um anyone right now that's that's that's specializing in it in the States but I would think up in uh in Canada where you get into a lot of the the spruce and pine pre-commercial thinning there's probably some some work that's that's done but it's a it's an amazing tool and I know back in the late 80s early 90s um in in Scandinavia Finland and Sweden there's probably more clearing saw utilized than than there is chainsaws so a lot of lot of Land Management done with that so let's see my training spans from chainsaws to brush chippers to clearing saws to landscape Power Equipment yeah so uh you have to have all of that to be able to to handle all the stuff that that you do so but uh yeah the motor manual breast cutter booklets I think are are out there and about with the Stila and HOSA I don't know if you you've seen those or not and uh so that's that's about it on that as far as questions go and Kean I I haven't uh I haven't heard anything back on the motor manual felling thing from Auburn yet so I will let you know hopefully hear something but um Chris you're unmobilized yes sir I'm finally at the house all right um what what do you guys do as far as the a few comments here as far as uh as training I had um some some different thoughts here over the past couple days on um you know really looking at at at pinpointing cuz I was going through the uh you know some of our our responses back on that um still getting about 25 or 30 a day on the barber chair tree and you know comments and all that that come in and and people um some seem to have an idea of of what's going on there and then others don't and so um I got to thinking about how do you how do you or what's your process if you've got a group of people guys and and ladies that you're you're working with on chainsaw operation um to get through the basics you know of of the PPE and that that always was a tough one to get everybody to think about using um but how do you how do you look at the different uh skill sets of the group in other words some some groups I've done over the years you you've got you know 10 guys are and they're they're all U pretty prevalent full-time chainsaw operators right and then you've got sometimes mixed groups where you've got uh some guys who have a lot of experience with the saw and then some that that you know really have never even picked it up and so what what's what's your findings as far as the best way to be able to U kind of get basics in as as well as getting uh you know professionals or or experienced operators to be able to uh kind of focus in on the important things like you know we we talked about this a couple weeks ago on these um on the ones that we we we were talking about with the barber chair that you know really the issue on that particular situation is the hinge was too thick and so you know there was a rope in it there there was a bore cut that was done to establish the hinge but we we talked about that the the operator said that they you know they wanted to leave a little bit more because of some of the obstacles that were close to the tree and basically that was a choice that didn't work too well because the hinge didn't bend so it had too much resistance and caused the tree to split they had a face Notch the face Notch was not very deep but it was deep enough and open enough to allow the hinge to work it's just that with that particular tree with very straight fiber the hinge was too thick to bend so instead of starting to break from the back and going to the front and the tree falling the straight fiber split up the tree so when you when you start to think about the basics to get across to people uh what what what's the best way to do that what have you found in your instructions to be able to uh to get those things across to people well it's a delicate balance because the one all right so let's say that you showed up to him you showed up to one of my events and you're as skilled of sawers as anybody that I've ever met I don't want to offend I don't want to offend you because you came there because you want to work and you know how to directionally fa a tree but I am liable for an organization that's huge and I'm also I'm responsible for these homeowners and the homes and the property and all of that so I I communicate that to everyone that comes on the trips that I'm personally responsible for this I feel personally responsible for and then we have a short video that explains if you're going to run a saw you got to wear all the PPE there's no questions asked you're going to wear your helmet your boots your gloves your safety glasses your helmet everything is you're going to wear the chaps this is how you start the all and they all watch this video and they all agree that they're going to follow those instructions so right out of the gate that covers my rear end at the end of the day um then we have a class if you want to actually run the saw and uh cut trees then we sit down for a short class the classroom aspect of it and I learned a lot during that and let's say Tim that you came or Warren then I ask pretty pointed questions can you explain to me how hinge Works can you explain to me um if you have an extreme amount of s lean what does that tell you if you have an extreme amount of Back Lean what does that tell you how do you measure the height of a tree if someone can answer those questions then I send them with one of our guys that knows what they're doing just to watch them but if the guy's been like you Tim cutting trees most of your life within a half a day they know this guy's good he knows what he's doing and we can turn them loose cutting trees um and then like I said before we have a tagging system yellow that's not dangerous at all it's laying on the ground there's no tension it's a pine tree laying on the ground a blue tree is a standing tree but it can't hit anything if it goes wrong most of the time those are pine trees where the tops are snap snapped out so they're 30 foot totem poles so these are um guys that we feel comfortable that can fa trees but we're not quite sure if we would send them out if a tree's got three feet of Back Lean leaning over someone's house or a power line so that's kind of how we do it if that makes sense I I think it um you know like you said you you you ask some questions you kind of feel the feel the group out if you you know if you've got you know I tried to keep most of the classes as far as handson less than 12 for sure and by the time you you kind of watch them and you you watch how they interact with what you're presenting you you start to get an idea of what what their experience is and you know experience like we always say comes in a lot of different forms so just just because somebody has been in the woods you know with the saw for for a lot of time doesn't mean that they are able to explain it or teach it and that's important to themselves when they get into a tricky situation and so we get we get and I do too you know you get in a habit of doing something one way and and like saen always used to say you know it's not an assembly line out there you you have to you have to look at each piece that you're putting together and so to to start to to look at from a training standpoint is is is trying to get everybody up to a level that as I always say getting information from here to there if if you can get people that can explain things to somebody else then they can start to share information that starts to work in a lot of different ways new employees uh a new group you're trying to get information to uh you have a a tricky situation comes about in a storm or a tricky site on a logging site you know that's uh that's tough with equipment and these kinds of things so you you you start to think about where do you where do you start with that and that's where I think that um you know a training has has taken things back and and start to look at the basics yeah we talk about uh the PPE like you're saying and and then you said you know if somebody knows how to height measure tree if somebody does what I guess what I'm getting at is how important is that to take everybody in that group back to a certain level and in other words you you've got to be able to recognize uh first of all that somebody's interested if they're if they're not not interested you you got to do a lot of talking and showing to be able to to get them to the point of accepting uh you know information or training that you're trying to put out after after that you've got to have a format that's going to cover the information that you need so that when you know they've got the chainsaw and and you're trying to like you say be be uh comfortable with them from a safety standpoint and the land owner standpoint all this how how do you take and and you know say you know take that saw and do this you you got to give them a certain amount of um of steps to go by and that's what we call the the planning process of Hazards lean Escape Hing siiz back cut if if somebody can think through those things and look at that tree and and be able to to uh come up with those five steps when they get down to the end of those five they they pretty much have taken the information that's going to give them a pretty good plan and and probably be able to maintain maintain safety in other words to keep those unplanned events from happening if if you if you don't have those Basics or you've got somebody that that doesn't um you know have the experience there how do you how do you slow down how do you how do you get everyone on an equal playing field what would be your answer to that the way that we get everyone on the on the same playing field is through training um if you're going to be a what we call a red cutter that means that you cut dangerous trees with us and you go through our three-day program um because you are cutting trees what we call a red tree there's no way that you could do it without a loss of life or damage property so we take them through the same three-day program that you teach and um one of the ways that I've been able to acquire more people and to train more people to get them to that level as we pour into them so if you're willing to go through all of that to come to Danville or wherever to do a three-day class and you go through it and you can directionally f a tree then I'd give you a a cask helmet and a pair of clogger chaps that are yours to keep because you're part of the red team um and like you said a lot of people they don't it's not their thing they come on a trip one time they want to drag Limbs and help someone but when you find the say you had 40 people show up you find three guys that really want to do this that's when you really start pouring into them and get them the training that they need invest in them and then um you know you can help a lot of people you get three more guys trained up that's three families a day getting help but it all comes down to the training yeah Lord same idea yeah um I kind of think you know in the in the classroom setting you do uh find out a lot of the experience level or the interest like Chris is saying I think interest is is huge um we have a one of our volunteers uh uh he's a really talented climber owns his own tree service um and everything like that um super super conscientious about safety you know abides by all the standards and everything and he knew that we were doing this three three-day training this week and uh I mean he could probably you know teach the class uh with his skill set but uh he's just as interested in going back to those fundamentals as somebody who's new and and that that tells me a lot um you know if somebody who has a lot of a lot of skill um still wants to revisit those fundamentals and uh and is excited about that um you know that's that's huge and and that type of personality can be found in people who are just starting out um like Chris said pouring into those those people we you know we do the training and I told told the guys today uh at the start of the training you know you're not going to be I'm still learning stuff every day right um I think we all should be and uh I said you know you're not you're not going to be a you know like a professional sawer after the after this three days right it's impossible to learn everything there is to know and have these experiences right we talk about experience you can't have all these experiences in three days um but what it does is it builds a foundation on the Rock and not not the sand um you know to to use kind of a parable language um and the guys that you know we offer um usually monthly like a workshop hangout where we choose one of the modules or some aspect of those modules uh to hone in on and and to focus a little bit more on and go in a little bit more detail the guys that sign up for those Workshop Hangouts every time are the same guys that are you know filling in the blanks during the training and uh and making comments and and being very interactive um and and and connecting the dots but not just connecting the dots but getting excited about connecting the dots and like you know Chris is saying they all start at the same same spot um but you can you can pretty quickly pick out who's uh who's G to be a a really good volunteer and someone who takes everything very seriously um and and is thirsty to learn um and I think within that first day of training even through the demonstration portion of it where they're not really cutting or they might just start cutting um you you can kind of tell that if someone it's the first time they picked up a saw or I should say the first time they've operated a saw in the correct manner you know even even the guys that are going to be really good volunteers um in the coming months and the coming years might look a little shaky um at first but uh it's kind of you know what I found about their about their attitude and uh their willingness to uh you know check their ego that's a huge thing um you know staying humble and uh and just taking a general interest in like Chris said there's some guys that come out they think they kind of want to do this you know and um pretty quickly find out that hey this you know this isn't for me and that's totally fine that's what that's what the training is for right that's kind of you'd rather figure that out um in a controlled environment um if possible instead of uh instead of a you know high stakes environment kind of thing but no I think I think all those are super valid points yeah you know one one thing um um Keenan asked about the cross side Chris M about height measuring I pulled one out here I'll talk about it in a minute but um also Robin he he says you know I've I've been chainsawing for 40 plus years and only last few years I've been bore cutting and uh there's a story behind that perhaps I can share with you sometime he says but U you know when you when you start to to look at uh reactive forces of the solid you know we we we always everybody talks about them you know statically on the saw maybe uh instructor might take and show that a little bit but I think I think one thing that that I've used over the years that that saurin got me going with in our competitions is is the Bor cut and so we we set up the stump and we we do the Bor cut uh competition in some form or fashion and what that gives me as as looking at the group understanding first of all how they stand with the saw the use of the PPE their their um ability to start the saw uh check the run to be able to to take and and then see how they approach you know from reactive forces standpoint what part of the bar and that that little competition we do that that covers Push Pull kick you know it it it it really gives you the ability to take and and observe um what their what their comfort level is with the saw and so um that's a reason why that was one of the first things when I got to the field with the group and have for years and years the Bor Cut's the first thing it's not something I end with that's that's what I start with in most cases because that that gives me the ability to see what their experience level is their comfort level and a lot of times it they they may have been working with the saw for years but you give them them a different saw and all of a sudden Everything Changes they're not comfortable with hus Varner they're not comfortable with the steel or whatever and what does that do that that totally detracts somebody's thought process and I think I see that a lot with with guys and watching videos and and watching guys in the woods and and Tree Care too is is thinking about when they get up there to the tree and it's in a production situation they really they really don't always put together all the steps there they get comfortable in doing it one way and that's that's how they do it and then you get to something that's serious and they're past the point of backing down to the basics and I I think the the basics are so important so the bore cut is something that we have used for years to kind of level out the playing field in a training class and you'd be surprised how many people that I've run across over the years that have never Bor cut and especially not precisely bore cut like in that that stump competition and so you could have somebody with know time on a saw that Aces it and then you got somebody that's been with running a saw for 30 years in the woods and and they have a hard time with the bore cut and so once they get it though once that person that's been running the saw for 30 year 30 years gets it there's no stopping them because they understand that's that's a tool in their toolbox that they can then take can utilize somewhere in their next you know 100 trees or whatever so it's not something you do all the time necessarily but it's something that you you have the ability to do once you understand how it works so and uh Kenan says well said on both accounts I work for government and train government staff training at its best is all about establishing a fundamental and Level Playing Field regardless of skill level and I I agree with that because I don't I don't care or what kind of group if if you're an employer and and you've hired two guys three guys you know and and you put them out there in the field and you know they say I've been using a saw for many years it doesn't make any difference how many years they've been using the saw they haven't been using your saw on your jobs with your type of of clientele or whatever it is everything's always changing if if you've got somebody that doesn't have a a basis to work from and who needs to establish that is the employer or the the instructor or or whatever in that particular group in time and then sometimes it changes with with Marketplace or trees trees in an area or terrain in an area or whatever you've got to have that basis there so that people come back to that and you know it's like I I always say people used to tell me to say well you know I I I I can't afford to put my guys through all the training and all this kind of stuff it's it just goes wild and and uh you know I send them there anyway they come back and they leave or I can't get the equipment that they see there or or whatever it is you know I I always ask them what do you do then well I I try to hire people that have experience I said where do you get them from Idaho or something because you know you where do you get experienced people from because when it comes to your job and your requirements you you have to really analyze to to see that they're going to do work the way you want it done and then the other thing is there there's a certain industry standard whether it be logging or tree care or whatever that's there because people have already experienced to a certain level and so when you when you start to to look at like the ANZ 133s or the 1910 266 oosha or whatever when it comes to logging or Tree Care is is that that's industry stuff that has been compiled over a period of time a lot of people have never heard of it a lot of people have never seen it they don't realize these things are are issues that that cause dangers or injuries or fatalities or or whatever it might be and just being a you know an owner's manual in some cases can reduce a lot of of accidents and injuries out there because it's information that's been compiled and people say yeah but if you're a professional you know you don't need that stuff if I'm a professional I want that stuff because if I get hurt as a professional my my income is gone right my family is hurt my job didn't get completed and so you you you start to to look at those kinds of things and and you know even going back like you know he was saying about the the the cross site Keenan asked about that and this is this is just a a pocket tool you can do the same thing with a stick but I have I had a lot of people you know that that we had the pro site that sa and I put together and then later I came up with the concept of the Cross site just to make it a little bit more pocket sized but it's it's a it's a triangulation tool and so if you know two siid equal triangle you know the third side so what this what this tool does and there's some information on there we we also use it to kind of calculate lift and I've just got some basic rules of thumb on there for that but but more or less this this triangle built here if you put this on your forehead from this point over here to this point you would back up till you got that whole Tree in there right below your eye would be the the height of that tree so you can do the same thing by holding out a stick that's the same length as your arm flip it up and you you're able to back up till you got the whole Tree in that stick and right below your eye would be the the uh the height of the tree and what does that do for you well if you're sizing up a tree job or you're looking not to mess up that nice Red Oak or whatever is is thinking about is there an object there that it's going to hit and and so you can you can be able to take this and put it on your forehead and and be able to look to to see you know what uh what that tree is you back up till you have that and and be able to estimate the height do I check it on every tree no it's not necessary but if I'm in a a particular area even in a wooded area and and you're going to be trying to set patterns fing patterns and and trying to to to Really optimize your next step which is your equipment you know patterns can help and so height measure there but with tree care when especially with disaster stuff where you've got objects and people and and buildings and those kinds of things uh height measure is a very cheap tool and it can save you a lot of effort and a lot of damage and it's it's just something to to think through a lot of people have have never looked at it that way because they they've never been exposed to it and so that was that was it I see Robin says basically I was looking at a severe leaner and realized it's serious Hazard and I found uh one of your videos on bore cutting Le leaners and the light bulb went on and it took 40 years and never stopped learning know but that that's it I mean you know I I learned stuff just talking to people and and going through it I'm not able to get out in the woods much so I have to rely on these guys to to to kind of inform me of what's happening but it's it's something where back in the day when I was out there you know I I picked up stuff just about every class that I did because people's experience levels are different and the trees are different and the terrain is different and their supervisors are different and their equipment is different and so you have to you have to really try to uh to minimize the variables you you and you start that by by really uh putting together a more or less a basic plan and that's that's where training really comes in whether you go to a class like like Chris does and and and like Warren put together or or whether you are a a a twom man uh tree care company that more or less you got a new guy that starts with you you you have to have some type of a system to be able to communicate to be able to put together plans uh to be able to run certain equipment uh you know all this stuff it it all is part of of an important thing what do you think Chris is that true or not yeah man I had a the guys heard me say this so much that they had a t-shirt made for me and it said I know you've been running a saw for 40 years but you still have to take this class if you want to run a saw with us I had to say that so many times that you know like I said they had a t-shirt made and you hit the nail on the head it's it's the communication it's knowing the basic just because you've been running a saw for 40 years doesn't mean you've been running it right and at the end of the day if you get out of your truck from Georgia I get out of my truck from Virginia and we're all on a on a site we need to be a we need to be talking the same singing the same tune we all need to understand that we're coming up with this plan where we're all going to go and we're all speaking the same language so uh but it is all down to the basics yeah I I I see so many times on these comments on different sites and things where you know people watch two seconds of something it's it's amazing where you know I've said this hundred times is I I have this guy's get his long explanation and he's he's spot on as far as what happened this tree or this situation next person comes on and says no that's not right and and all they looked at was the first 10 seconds of the video and you know they they completely turn off from it and it just amazes me that that somebody thinks they can watch a a one minute video on a barber chair and and know exactly what happened and everything else I mean I I I've watched thousands of trees go down with different people cutting them over the years and it's still takes me a while to look at the situation and still ask questions you know to know was there a rope in it was the wind blowing was it this you know you you have to go back and back when I was doing training with OSHA in different areas with the logger training um you know it is something where i' have guys say well they can't tell what happened anyway I said oh yeah when we get through this class today you you'll understand you can go and read anybody's stump because that's their personal signature out there and and you you can see exactly what they did and what they didn't do and in a lot of cases figure out where the tree was leaning what the tree was doing you know what kind of fibers you had was the wind blowing all this kind of stuff and it's it's amazing sometimes what you can learn from that but it's best to start off and this this is a big thing that I see is that guys out there they they do these these short videos and they're watching this little tree big tree fall or whatever but you never know what the leans were you never know what the wind was doing you never know this and and they're they're focusing on a technique and I can tell you there's we I sit down one one evening coming back and uh we were flying back from out west and we sat there and I I drew out probably a hundred different ways that you could back cut a tree and and people say you what I said yeah but there's probably four of them that we use 99.9% of the time you know because there it's not it's not that tough to figure it out but you have to you have to open up your mind to the rest of those to be able to say if I did need them I know how to do it and and that's something that I I see all the time with guys I say you know I understand you've been cutting a long time but can you explain it and I and I and I can't seem to find a lot of folks that have gone the ones that go through training they can explain it but the ones that have never gone to training they just learn from the seat of their pants they can't explain it they know how to do it they can show you how to do it but then it goes back to my first questions is is that when you've got a a mixed group and and whether it's a new guy that's starting to work with you on your logging crew or your tree care crew how do you get them on a standardized playing field how do you how do you get everybody at the same level and they understand you most of the time people just get frustrated with them and them before they really get attuned to their techniques or their their work habits and it it's a sad situation but I I hear that quite often you know I had this guy started Monday had to let him go by Thursday he didn't have the experience well how how are you going to get them experienced that person that's instructor or owner has to go back to those Basics and and get that through to the people I don't care how much experience they have and so that's a key for our industries of tree care and logging for sure and Disaster Cleanup is is to think about the the training process and how long it takes and what does that training need to consist of so that you can be able to get people to a comfortable level to reduce injuries and and safety issues and and to be able to have them understand just just as as Robin said there is that once he saw that Bor cut work he knew it and that's what cotton top told me too and that's that's what uh Dwayne newad told me too is is that once I saw that all of a sudden it clicked in my head and now I can really do it you know I don't use it all the time not necessary but I now have that as one of the tools in my toolbx and that's the key is to be able to pull the right tool at the right time to match my plan that's what makes me productive and being able to maintain safety well Tim that's a good trainer or a good leader is taking someone and being able to figure out where they are and get them to where they want to be not just saying he's ignorant he doesn't know how to do it so I'll just fire him because if somebody wants to know and you're willing to spend the time with them you can take somebody they don't have to have any skill I mean I mean I take you take people I take people Warren takes people that have barely had a chainsaw in their hands but you spend time with them you pour into them once and then you'll see the light bulb go off and then you got something I'd much rather have someone like that than somebody's been around in the all 40 years and it's like talking to a post they don't you know they don't understand how it works and they don't really you know they they're smarter than you are everybody starts somewhere don't they yeah yeah you know Lord knows I did me too everybody you know and that's that's that's something that uh you know whether you're you're working on a log job or you're working on a tree care crew or or whatever and like I said too important thing to remember is that when that tree changes that job site changes that co-worker changes that you know it it all goes back to the basics and and that's that's really what'll make it so Ken says you still need BR Dwayne he a special guest one these he he has made a couple Thursday nights K but it's been a few months back he's too busy fishing right now but uh we'll try to get him back again but uh I don't see any other other questions but I I just um I'm I'm really you know happy to see that you guys are are carrying a lot of the training on and and taking the information and and getting it out there and uh you know that's that's the key is uh we we we can't keep talking about it because there's there's new people that's starting every day and there's a old rusty guys that that uh you know come across a new tree situation and it's something that they they need those Basics sometimes too so key to it well gentlemen we've about expended our time here but uh I appreciate everybody dropping in tonight I think we had some some great discussions and u i sorry I talk so much but Chris you made your points anyway you did good talk too much but it's good stuff yeah the training training is is the key there and Warren started off with it with his group this week and uh I know you've you've got it going on at every every worksite you'll be in in Georgia sharing it in a couple weeks so it's it's something that um you know it's uh it's important so I appreciate everybody everybody dropping by David wer says he Robin says he hopes to see you in a week or two Chris yeah tell him come see me I got more broken saws I need him Chris says he has more broken saws and uh David V said we get our saw chaps from Amazon once in a while for our high school students and we make sure the chaps have ul and Nancy tags but I have a question that might be made in uh but have questions that might be made in high or something I don't know I didn't get that David yeah have the if the chaps have the UL classification label on it um pretty much have gone through the North American Lake protection train uh testing so so you can you can Pro pretty much feel confident in them happy to finally be able to set in on my first full session in a while very good yeah that that's there's a lot uh a lot of material uh is is a ballistic from China that is in a lot of the lot of the chaps of the the inexs and and all you see in in in U most of the um the US stuff and and then uh I think uh there's some specialized materials that that um that they have um where go the cloggers have and uh Pete can answer a lot of questions on that if you go to their site but anyway that's um anything is better than nothing that's for sure so we're back next uh next Thursday night and if uh you have any questions or anything that you can you can send them in at info@ Forest steps.com or put it on one of the the sites on Facebook or YouTube and also Instagram in gr's followers are growing like crazy and so any any comments that you have on there I I read all of them because I don't have too much to do anymore so that's it's something where I'll be be uh getting back with you or putting together video or whatever to to explain it and so that's that's kind of where we're at and uh also U if you are interested i' I've been posting the um the um the zoom um logins so if you'd like to be part of the panel you can do that also and we can uh try to get things answered for people when way the other so gentlemen thank you much hope you have a great week y'all be careful out there and uh good s to you sir see you next week