good good go ahead any questions you guys have so what do you know now about the kickoff rule that you didn't know the last time we talked to you well you can't put the te or the ball on the te flat like that that's what I do know and there's probably going to be more changes that's the other thing I know so we'll deal with it as they come did you guys do that earlier in Camp before you told not to no we we we've messed around some different things but that that's one of the things you looked at or heard about but yeah that's off the table now so we'll just go with how it how it ever plays out of what you look for in the kicker change in terms of you know obviously hang time and distance maybe less important than how you can control those Line Drive kicks and things like that what what's the difference from yeah you just said that's probably the easiest way to explain it hangtime does not matter at all anymore so placement where you're going with it or I think what a lot of things are going to happen and we call them dirty balls where once it hits the ground that's when everyone can move so whether it's that extreme or just more of a line drive um that's what I think is going to so more a target practice basically instead of hangtime is out doesn't matter then from what you've seen yeah no good that's something he's been working on all all summer and he's been preparing for it and that it just changes you know their whole lives kickers have been told hangtime number one and placement you know and now hang time's out so it's really just placement you done any research on defensive guys who have played soccer that oh yeah oh yeah we we ask everybody and you have to have a guy to do that and I think with a position player if you had one there's just a lot that goes into it you know through the game if he's playing if he gets sore and you know it's such a if you get outside the the target line if you get outside the 20 you know that's pretty big penalty starting on the 40 so that's going to happen too if with guys that don't kick every day you know so we don't have a guy but we we'll see who does it you saw Deo lobbying for doing getting some kickoffs I'm sure that decision will be made by Kyle but uh is there something to that where a guy powerful like that can hit the middle and only the kicker is gonna be there uh yeah I think there's a lot of things that nobody knows what it's going to look like um the one thing I do know though is you have to have returners that can get to the ball it that just with what I said about the kickers when you take hangtime out of it it's it's going to start in simplest form to me as a kicker and returner game because they're the only ones that can move until the ball either touches somebody or hits the ground so right there simplify that to me is like okay that's where it starts so that's where the game starts to me it look like Moody broke the team down uh at the end of practice today yeah Kyle Kyle brought him up there yle say about that and how has Moody performed uh Moody's done a really nice job he's uh it's always fun seeing guys in their second year come in the building when Camp starts you know I saw it in Jake you see it in D winers you see it in Graham you see it in those guys it's just a whole different feel where their body feels like how comfortable they are they know exactly what it looks like so they're all really excited and Jake was no different on that he was it's just a different mentality coming in Year too second year lutter obviously had a you know mishap in the Super Bowl how has he you seen him respond from that lutter's great lutter is a great worker um he gets better every day um you know he was on pup for a while last year I think so it took him longer to develop but no he's excellent he he works great love him you're looking at the when you're looking at the punt returners and you have Trent Taylor back there who's very experienced is I guess is he more of a natural Fielder of the punt than maybe Ricky Piera he seems like he's learning how to do it um I would say Trent is just so good because so many reps he's had you know the the punt return is a thing of reps so the more uh reps you see at the ball flight the different nose where the ball's going and just Fielding the ball so Trent is excellent back there he's done it for so long so confident so cool and and so it's really cool to get all those guys as many reps as we can and and helping everybody it's about just getting the Reps so that that's where he looks really natural at it you SE tried multiple combinations back there for kick returner are you still kind of working through what you're looking for or are is the idea that hey we may have multiple combinations that we use at various points of this year um we're trying everyone there basically every running back is back there the receivers at we're trying everybody and I think what what I'm anticipating what it looks like and I'd rather anticipate this way is all the different kind of balls you're going to get and I I think when you can move returners around again the cat and M Mouse game but also there's a lot like you you put Debo and Juice back there they have a real instinctual piece about them um like when you you like my job as a coach is to give them any tells we have to let them know where we think the ball is going by alignment by the kicker by the went whatever it is give them that information so they can anticipate where the ball's going but now there's some just internal instincts that really good football players have that I don't know if they can tell you why they felt something but moving with the kicker as he comes so it's all about Fielding the ball clean so if I'm on kickoff return when we're doing kickoff return if we can field the ball clean we have all the advantage there is no Advantage for the kickoff team it's it's zero if on our kickoff team as we're covering if we can get the returner not catch it clean that's the only Advantage I see for a kickoff team or or the hit the ground go into the end zone and now the ball's at the 20 so another dirty ball is the way we look at it so that's where I see and if it's not that it's not that but I want to start there juice in particular just because of they have so much experience you know in the Run game like in the actual offense is that almost how you have to view it as like hey there's an element here too if these guys are familiar in that way uh in terms of like dvo running behind juice or or whatever yeah I just if if it turns into um trying to steal possessions from our team or it turns into trying to win field position by kicking dirty balls and trying that that's what teams because in special teams teams try to attack us that way we've had multiple teams try to fake punts against us you know to steal another possession so going into that I almost kind of look at you have to have your best players back there if that's what they're doing and think of hands team you know when we do a hands team at the end of a game we have all our best players there and the reason they're there is they're our best players they have the Instinct the ability what whatever it is the no hesitation something told them to do something and they move on it so that's kind of how we look at it and we're we're trying a bunch of different guys there see what who has a skill set there you talk to Chris fer at all just in terms of like blocking schemes big picture on those returns absolutely yeah it the kickoff return looks more like a offens or defensive play than a kickoff or a kickoff return so all those principles I think it's way more comparable on an offense and defense how it's lined up the difference is how we get there on a kickoff return is different than how offense and defense get there but once you get engaged all football rules are the same so that's that's the thing we're trying to figure out is what is where our eyes going where's our helmet going what is our steps what how are we getting there how do we get to that spot and then it's really just a football play it's a offense defensive play where leverage head hand placement footwork eyes physicality all of it so that's what we're trying to figure out and we don't know what it looks like yet taking all that into account in these three three preseason games are you going to get more out of this than you've gotten out of preseason in years absolutely that I mean I can't wait for Thursday night to see what it looks like so every preseason game um I don't think it's going to end until the end of the season I mean think of like I just compared it to an offens of defensive play right the fundamentals of football haven't changed all that much we know all those answers but like take Kyle's offense right the outside Zone that he was running here in 17 there's probably a lot more wrinkles to it now in fact there is a lot more wrinkles to it now because they have so much history on it they start scheming on it you see what the defense is doing and it evolves no one has any information on this play Zero so as the plays happen as schemes happen as you see things and put what they're doing what they're doing what works with us what we've already done it's going to be constantly evolving until we get enough information on it and then you can start moving so it's going to be an adjustment all year you talked to other special teams coaches around the league or are guys in your position around the league being real inquisitive with one another about this to try to you know conquer this whole thing well that question was asked in Spring and we had a couple big all special teams I think we had three Zoom meetings so it was really clear to everybody I talked to a couple guys I know and they were being quiet I haven't talked to anybody so that's the tape is gonna be the work you know you haven't seen this play live very much right I mean you practiced this play but as far as live reps of it how many reps have we seen of it live well whatever you call and practice live whatever we can do which is going to be different when it actually is tackling and when this that's the difference the speed like we know how fast guys run down the field in the old all the kickoffs I've ever coached and our players have ever run we know exactly how fast the guys are we know EX exctly what moves they do we know when they go back door or away from the return if they have enough speed to get there so you take all that speed out and now we don't know what it looks like when a returners is going left I don't know if I can go back door I don't know if I can go and have enough speed to get there so all those things and now those decisions have to be made within this five yards so think of it last year if if if I'm on the kickoff team and all of us are running the ball's kicked we're moving we have 4 seconds to taking all the information that the other team has given us how the returner where he's moving what what is the blocking scheme how deep are they're going so guys have always processed a kickoff that way running full speed and all these indicators getting them to the football now and just train think of this I mean every play these guys have ever done when the ball is snapped everybody moves right when the ball is kicked everybody moves and then that's how they've trained their whole life on moving and making decisions now the ball's kicked they don't move and now they have to process all that thing without moving and it to me I mean it might sound like yeah that's I don't know if it is easy some guys can't process all that they have to process a totally different way so that's where we started let's start there because we don't know what everything else looks like but what is different about this play how can we train our eyes and our footwork and our decision making with the information we have now and then when it happens it happens really fast so if you're false stepping if you don't have a plan it's going to be too quick can the athleticism of a Long Snapper of Taber be something that can tip the scales at this point now in terms of the return like they can be more involved like it's not something that it doesn't appear that maybe the a the athleticism about Long Snapper was as valued as maybe it is now when you're in this situation yeah for punts that's that's always going to be it but for kickoffs pep would not be involved in that he'll just do punt stuff and we always work on him trying to be a factor in coverage because those are always the best long sampers is the ones that can be a Factor last one all right thanks thank you guys