Golden Bachelor Episode 3 Recap

[Music] welcome to the world let me tell you what I've learned about it welcome back to aliens watching reality TV I'm Erica and I'm Janette and we're talking about the golden Bachelor episode 3 um Janette is also known to me as Mom and she is my special co-host for this uh inaugural golden Bachelor season and I still do think I'm your favorite conversation partner yes I feel a lot of pressure to say yes so no well I'm up there I'm I'm a high ranking right now absolutely you're my favorite person I'm talking to oh that seems so limiting I love talking with you thanks for this great I love talking to you conversation we're about to have episode three of the golden Bachelor I can't wait to talk about it yeah I thought this one was interesting and kind of different because it's less focused on Gary more focus on the ladies and we have some very interesting like uh situations to to pull apart and um it definitely like we're we're finally really getting to analyze the from a neurodiversity angle which is the whole point of this podcast so that's pretty cool yeah yeah and they start off with they let us see all of the women together they have 12 women they're going to end up with nine so we get to see what happens in this episode and they do start by saying that they all feel they have a connection with Gary and they start to Guess that maybe going to have some struggles with each other interpersonally I guess maybe we're surprised that they didn't have more struggles initially but those start to emerge in this episode yeah um I took notes in the first like for the first like five or 10 minutes um and the second thing I wrote down is is Teresa bragging some it did it did stand out to me okay so they announced to us that they're going to have a group date and the invited participants are everyone and so everyone's invited to a talent show that I saw they hosted it at The Canyon Club with an audience Did You Know The Canyon Club in Los Angeles no but I was surprised at what a big audience it was for the yeah talent show that was not what I you know I guess I'd only had like 3 seconds to make a mental image imagining what was about to happen but I clearly did because when when I saw that big crowd I was like oh my God this is not what I thought yeah I was thinking more like a barn in the back and come on everybody we're g to stand around the at Camp bathro right like a slumber party it was going to be a lot more fun and informal and instead it was like no everyone has an act they're going to put on so we got to get started with the talent show and in front of this live audience most people look excited except for Joan who immediately looks miserable yeah and I don't think that most people were excited I think they edited for excitement I bet most except for maybe two of them who think of themselves as performers those two were like ah I've got this and you could kind of feel a high school Vibe happening where uh everyone is finds out there's a thing that's happening in school today that nobody knew and two people are really good at maybe some gym class memories or other types of awkward memories of they didn't prepare me for this thing that's happening today I mean definitely yeah like the ones who consider themselves performers are like o nice my time to shine but I I felt like it was excitement for most of the ladies because this is a you know a very specific population of people who want to be on TV so like they are more interested in attention than you know just your average example group um it does make me wonder at this point too with the auditions and the interviews and how they narrow down to the 20 some women that they started with did all those women who participated did they do it primarily because they want to find a partner or they want to be on TV and we had said we said in the first episode it did look to us like a lot of them want to find a partner and they're maybe hes they feel like and have to go through this TV way of doing it because I don't really know how I'm going to do it I'm not going to do it through Tinder I don't really want to do that so TV okay that's maybe better than trying to run into somebody spontaneously at the bookstore especially someone as valuable as they see I think they all wanted to be on TV at least a little bit you think so okay and for some at least a little bit or they wouldn't be for some people it's to be on TV and for other people it's it's kind of just the experience of like making TV you know some people the attention part is more important but some people just like that just sounds like such an interesting once in a-lifetime experience um but yeah I think everyone any of them counted on or maybe two of them thought maybe there will be an opportunity for me to sing and dance on TV I don't think most of them had Fai clearly showed up with that yeah she's like oh yeah to do it again I started singing on the very first day and then it did kind of turn out all right so we get to the talent show and it did start with Sandra she's gonna tell a joke what did you think of the joke I mean I so I really wondered like you texted me while you were watching it so I thought okay you like Sandra's joke because so also um for people who don't know I used to do standup I did stand up for five years so I've seen a lot of standup and her the beginning of what she's doing it's not you you know traditionally what you would call standup and if if anything it feels like you know um math problem or something um so then the the the turn you know the punch line at the end like I laughed out loud I thought it was hilarious and she sold it and she sold it in part because the beginning part was so not funny you know like so you she told it like she were maybe at a business conference and she's like okay everyone we're at a business conference so I'm telling a joke and it starts like this yeah and so you're just not expecting her to actually have a funny punchline and a runchy one which even though we should think by now ah we know Sandra a little bit at this point she is a little bit of a runchy wild card um and I I love that about her yeah I thought it was really funny so she tells a joke and then they do this quick montage and can I just tell you I know you hate it when I jump ahead but I wrote all their names down and I realized oh when I when we got to the end I went back to see for the people who got cut from the show on this episode what did they do in the talent show and they were not part of the Montage I mean Christina yeah I mean we're already flipping to the end whatever Christina I was like I don't think I recognize her I I haven't seen her do anything but that's you know a really good indicator of why they were not included in sure they were not included in the talent show Montage yeah probably just in the Montage they did the talent show I'm sure because they just weren't as like fun and funny and you know sry y so whatever they did it didn't impress the editors or the potential boyfriend so we saw things like Susan break a board she was doing kind of ta she is a hoot she is she's really fun and funny and Faith of course sang a song and we're kind of like oh does she have any other than this great voice and guitar and I don't know okay so now I'm going to get a little bit on the caddy side so you know they said at one point I think it was an episode one but it might have been episode two but it wasn't this one that they were starting to add up who do we think had work done and so whenever I see faith I do think gosh does she have the most filler in her cheeks that I've ever seen or not they're just outrageously huge okay you can be mad at me oh no I'm not um but I think most of them have had at least a little work done you know yeah a little bit but when I look at Faith I was like okay that was overboard it's kind of painful to look at that's funny I mean I I I I don't know I hadn't had that thought but I guess I'll I'll look at it next time I guess it's not the part of her face I was looking at or something but also I get Faith in Leslie confused my brain is has a hard time distinguishing them I know I know that they're different but um it took I mean the whole first like episode and a half um I couldn't tell them apart um it is really funny cuz I'm most of the time do not have a problem with faces I'm usually great and then every now and then my brain has two they don't even have to be that similar but like I used to not be able to tell the difference between um Matthew mccon and Woody harelson cuz my Bri decided that they looked the exactly the same and so uh yeah though faith and and Leslie they look the same and they both just seem kind of like artsy and insecure like isn't that kind of both of their personality um except that Leslie is a she's an athlete my God you look at her and she is rocking Athletics she is the one who in this talent show does the dance and she shows off her muscles quite a bit she's super strong and Faith does not come across the same to the same level of athleticism um but she and she does I'd say Leslie doesn't have those cheeks that are just a little they kind of freak me out anyway then Nancy does something with whipped cream and they don't let us see very much other than she catches whipped cream in her mouth which was wild and Ellen did a sex head talk which looks really fun and entertaining and April does a dance maybe a strip teas I don't know they didn't show very much of it they were like oh we're going to you know get in trouble with the FCC oh yeah Kathy's push-up that was pretty funny yeah and that was really funny oh April did A Dance with affirmations that's what I wrote down dance and affirmations my brain was my mind was wandering then for sure cuz affirmations my mind she does this dance and she shows that she baked also and then they they cut to the women and show their reaction and they're all like they have a frozen horror look on their face of she dances and she B FES and what is this yeah that's cheating you see it the competition yeah there is a competition now that's starting to come out where they're like gosh darn it she was more imaginative than me and look at her muscles and I'm angry and I did think oh now I'm starting to see the Survivor reality TV show that's happening here and they even do start to talk about that we need to get in coalitions we need to have teams to come right after the talent show we could see it in their faces right at that moment with the baked good of okay we're gonna gang up on her well and I mean um uh Kathy April Susan and Nancy they had formed before that because they announced it right at the beginning of the episode because I wrote in my notes and I only took notes at the very beginning um but yeah so that the Survivor thing is starting to happen this week I do feel like they saw a couple people feel like yeah favorites and it made yeah it made them feel like they needed allies which I understand you know to an extent and then we have Joan Joan has been dreading this talent show and I think she is giving all of us that feeling of oh my gosh I'm now so glad I'm not a contestant on this show because I can feel the whole contestant part of it is happening as she kept saying that she doesn't have any talents which in itself is like kind of a funny thing to say CU there nobody has no talents you know but also when you see that somebody chose I'm going to catch whipped cream flying through the air in my mouth as one of their talents or I'm going to do a pushup on the stage as my talent it does remind you more back to the summer camp of you could show that your toes are double jointed or whatever that people do in Camp talent shows I thought of what my silly Talent would be cuz like yeah I could sing or something but sometimes I feels too like yeah we already know I'm good I'm really good at hand farting so I think that you are good at that amazing like don't you do also you do little hand swimming pool things where you make little fountains you're like you just have to hand fart in water yeah easy you're really good at that I'm good at wiggling my ears and my nostrils I'm good at those things I you can do one eyebrow yeah only yeah I only really have control over the right side of my body the left side is doing its own thing I don't although you you know one of my favorites of your talents is your Grinch yeah I knew you were going to say that there's no way I'm doing it oh man so so everybody hold out for I think episode four we're going to get Erica to do her Grinch face you really won't ever get me to do it no I'll some way to shame you into the Grinch face they'll just have to believe us um that I so good you a really good impression of the Grinch and I I haven't let it out for years except for by myself every now and then and so what would my talent be CU I did start thinking too when I was watching these I okay I would def oh I'm pretty bad at it though but I you don't have to be good I probably would have given some kind of a lecture like the sex head one but I would have done something communication related I did think oh that's probably what I would have done you would have tried to make it funny I shouldn't say tried you would have made it funny I I I give a lecture today in front of dozens of people and I was very funny I got the room to laugh multiple times so I I would probably do something from today's lecture nice so Joon then she gives the she tells this poem and it's beautiful and touching and and he does say uh Gary does say I I do feel like she was talking just to me which is the right way to have appealed to him and then when they cut out to her and they interview her she said he just makes things not so scary being near Gary makes things not so scary and I do like it the authentic connection that they have from a distance when she talks that's actually for anybody who is thinking how do I give a presentation and not get so scared you look for someone in the audience that helps you feel not so scared they've got a connection with you they've got eye contact a genuine feeling that's going through the ether back and forth between you and then you just talk to them and Joan does that with Gary and it works yeah because you don't have to try hard to connect with Gary he's he's giving you like you know 75% of it already and you just have to supply the other Tony like he's he's definitely you cuz Al like some people are good audience members he's definitely a good audience member um yeah he wants you to succeed and to connect and to be great you know and and and I'm starting to think when Gary Narrows this down he's got to look for a woman who's not jealous because a lot of the women are starting to get jealous and the thing is Gary now that he's opened his Hearts to women Gary I think sees his limited life span left and he's going to open his heart to more women once he picks this he's not going to say yeah he's going to have so much attention so anybody that says I'm going to partner with Gary for the rest of my life is going to have to say and share him with the multitudes because Gary wants to connect he's good at it and women want to connect with him probably men are going want to connect with him and bet Gary's going to want to connect with men so I hope he is getting this about himself he cannot fully commit to a jealous woman he will be miserable if he does that everybody should take that lesson yeah and I don't see him making that mistake I I think although he makes a mistake later so we have I'm jumping ahead so back to where we are now I do think Gary ends up making a mistake but anyway uh he then picks Joan that happens pretty fast and then they interview Leslie and Leslie has this quote that I had to write in my notes Erica because it's heartbreaking no one ever picks me says Leslie and I'm not just a sexy dancer yeah Leslie's insecure yeah I know you're not just a sexy dancer you're 75% insecurity like I'm sad that you can get that old and still like have that negative selft talk you know like uh the reason people don't pick her is because she puts out an energy of like I I'm not worth picking like yeah it's sad like I I hate to say that I'm I don't want to be victim blaming or something but like she doesn't H that she brings that all all that energy you know like the nobody picks me in I'm not special like just leave leave that energy at home and it like I know much easier said than done but um yeah she I don't know she needs therapy or a good iasa Retreat or something yeah that's a good recommendation that's what we're going to ask for for Leslie we're going to uh manifest it in the universe that Leslie gets an iow experience so then Joan and Gary go on the romantic dinner date and I did feel a bit like oh she's like ah this is amazing and they both say this is one of the best nights ever but I did feel like Teresa's day was cooler way cooler did you feel like this or no Teresa's day I mean yeah it was definitely like more of a a production but I guess you know they had just blown their budget for this episode on how much does it cost to rent The Canyon Club anyway yeah they should have charged ticket prices for all those audience members I wonder I don't maybe they do and then and Gary says I am as excited to be with you as I've ever been with anyone did you believe it when he said that you know yes because and maybe I'm a fool but I am just inclined to believe Gary I think he is an honest person um but I think he's also a person who gets caught up and swept away in his own feelings and that means sometimes you really mean something when you say it um but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to feel that same way in the long run um and we did see in the previews at the end of episode one that he was going to profess that he loved several of them or at least more than one woman on this show and I do think he is getting really emotionally involved at a deeper level and we're starting to see that and he when he feels this feeling connection he really trusts it and believes in it and it does make him think I I think this is the biggest thing he's clearly having such so many big things happen inside of him that I think he's going to get pretty confused over the next few episodes I think every time he has one of those big lightning strike connections you know when someone really opens up to him and he feels like they connect on a soulle level he falls in love with her a little bit right then and there's nothing wrong with being that kind of person um and you know I did say it last week too but I've seen people be that way on Molly at Raves like but he because that is what happens like you will meet people and you will have a connection with them and you will feel like I literally love you I just met you but I literally love you and like I have friends that I met in Brave bathrooms because like it's it's not it can be real you know just because um you can fall in love quickly and with a lot of people doesn't necessarily mean it's not real um and you know I've talked to you about this the importance of traveling abroad and studying abroad I think especially when you're a young person and you can become super close friends with someone that you met in the hostel today oh you spend 24 hours with them and you feel like this is the best friend I've ever made and they're from this foreign country you know we're we're all in a foreign country and I'm from a foreign country they're from a different country and I feel closer to them than most of my family members than many of the people I grew up with and I just met them within the last 24 hours sometimes you even have a different language as your first language knowing that you can get that close to someone I think it's an important experience that Gary's going through this I like that you say this can happen to you at Raves and I'd suggest this can also happen at summer camp it can happen to you when you're traveling abroad the most important lesson here is you've got to get out of your comfort zone and out of your routine and out of I do everything the same way all the time and then you open up your heart to people to yourself in new ways that's a really important lesson from this show I do think also I mean a big part of it is getting married young and then being marriage your in whole adult life um if you are in a monogamous marriage then you can't let yourself fall in love with people all the time um and so I'm sure he has you know turned off or held back this side of his personality while he was married because that's just what you do and like I understand that um I um I like I I it's been a long time since I've been in a romantic relationship but I remember I I would have to like make some adjustments to how just because I know like I can come off flirty even if I don't feel like I'm being flirty and also I can get swept up in a moment and I don't ever want to make a decision I I don't agree with and so yeah I I would just sometimes like not let myself get as close with people um which yeah there's pros and cons to that but obviously at this point in my life I say hey you can you just don't have to be monogamous monogamy is way overrated you can have a wonderful marriage and connect with people and open your heart so they finished that date and they're both all really Buzzy from it Joan and Gary and then they seem to cut pretty quickly to the next morning Joan is upset she is on the phone with her daughter and they had talked the night before about how her daughter had a difficult birth of her child and now Joan's talking to her and she realizes I shouldn't be away something's not right and it was um they don't give us details which is good I'm glad they didn't and but Joan cries and she goes in to talk to all the women and they're like oh my gosh we haven't seen her yet when she comes in they do pick up on oh something's wrong and Joan says I have to leave my I have to go be a mom and go back and be with my daughter which I would have done for you too absolutely it's definitely the right choice your daughter's having a baby especially if there's any complications yeah you drop everything and it's sad but like absolutely she made the right choice she does and everyone says this as well and then she she steps outside and she has the oneon-one with Gary and and I teared up she when oh you did when they did I I did which was a little annoying cuz I was trying to put some makeup on um but yeah it I don't know it was so raw and real both of them their their feelings and um and and that like the sadness but AC acceptance of it because I love when he said we share a certain moral compass and yeah um and it made me also think I had a moment I don't know a similar kind of moment this year where I mean you know about it but we had uh we had three dogs but one of our dogs um could not be happy and safe in our house and we spent two years trying to um make our house right for him and we couldn't and so I eventually had to I found the perfect person to to adopt him and I had to drive him across the country to California and it was a completely insane thing to do and it was so heartbreaking and I just was sobbing my eyes out because like that's my baby I'm giving away my baby I never in a million years would see myself rehoming one of my dogs but I knew it was the right thing for him and I also knew like um if Freda and I weren't the kind of people who would do this who would go to this these lengths for this dog and who would put his well-being above ours then then like I wouldn't like who we are like we have to be these people but God sometimes it sucks to like be the kind of person who uh really cares about maintaining you know your moral standards even when it really really hurts yeah and they do connect over this just the vicissitude of life that you have the highest moment of your life one night and then you have the super low moment the next day and they have a good hug and goodbye and they do know she's off the show we don't know for sure that they'll never see each other again or they might reconnect and say we had such a a good time and again back to Gary's probably going to end up with many women a woman in every city and possibly uh that Joan's going to be one of them but I love that Joan also says that she felt her heart was a little fixed she said and less she felt less invisible which I thought was really um yeah good for her only oh she's going to be ready to meet somebody and she's an incredibly beautiful person she's and to know that she she is really pretty and she does feel she had felt invisible this opportunity to be on the this show and this experience it pulled her out of a comfort Zone and um you know maybe out from under a blanket of some kind and she does see herself more in the world making decisions for herself while still following her moral compass her heart to do what's right for her family and her community so I thought that was really nice one of the questions I had about just the bachelor is do people ever voluntarily leave the show for any reason is this one of the few times what are other reasons do you know it's yeah I mean it's not common but um often from a family emergency standpoint um some sometimes but sometimes it's just like I'm miserable here this is too stressful for me especially if there's like conflict with some of the other girls um and they're just like I remember there there was a girl in Demi season who left voluntarily and partly was cuz they were traveling and um and it was just like it was all too much she was in too many new environments and like didn't feel prepared and safe you know and then um and I don't remember all the details really but I know I'm sure it was also like one of the girls in the house hated her and so she just like she couldn't do it and and she was really sad about it you know um but yeah so it it does happen not that often cuz obviously it takes a fair amount of effort to get on The Bachelor so wants to get on you probably want to say but I do think also one of the questions I was curious the experience is so miserable for people that they leave for that reason so then we switch to he's uh Gary is back this morning because he's going to invite someone to go on an extended date with him and then you know they turn it all back to okay Show's back on let's uh invite one person and he picks Ellen yeah did you like that um I I wasn't excited about the choice right at first because I didn't have a particular like o Ellen I love her but then I loved watching their date I I I could see um I guess maybe just we hadn't seen enough of her or something I have enjoyed that her um title card always says like pickle ball co- Captain um because yeah like you know you brought up in the first episode that everyone is saying their professions even their retired professions and obviously she hasn't spent her life as a pickle ball co- Captain um and so I I like that that's how she's identifying at this time I was once captain of my dodgeball team for a couple of years and I'm horrible at dodgeball and hate Sports so I thought it was hilarious and I loved telling people I was a c of a dodgeball team so um yeah what did you maybe yeah maybe you need to update your LinkedIn profile with something that you really feel as fun are you on LinkedIn I don't even know if you are no no oh well dodgeball there you go you have you have that I I quit five years ago because my team ended up wanting to try to be better and they didn't um they didn't like it that I wasn't sad when we lost yeah I do remember when that happened and you're like how does anyone care about this oh I'm not willing to be sad when we lose I will just quit so they they bring a designer in and then Ellen finds out she's been selected for this date and she gets to go to dress paradise and she has a ball with it I think it is her favorite part of the date actually she gets invited into dress Paradise excited she really was and she's like B bam this is me and this is me and look at me in another dress I just had the best time with watching Ellen loving trying on long dresses and just like ah the best day of my life that was fun it did also sort of make me realize um a privilege that I've experienced that um maybe I haven't appreciated enough is that like I've had um I've had lots of experiences to feel beautiful to feel um you know doted on and and um and clearly a lot of people like they haven't had any really and so um of course I would have enjoyed going dress shopping all that and like it's it that's not an everyday thing it would be special for me but not like it was for her where it was like I've never gotten to do this I've never gotone to feel this way um and so I I was really glad for her that she got to have that experience and it just yeah it made me reflect a little bit on like that's something that I sometimes have taken for granted as being part of normal life um and I I shouldn't take that for granted and you know it's not part of my normal life so you remember this happened to me just a few years ago that a good friend of mine who is super artistic and fun and creative she lives in another city and I went to visit her and she had she thinking ahead surprised me with a bunch of dresses that she bought at a thrift shop that would fit both of us cuz we're pretty close to the same size and then she said we're going to do photo shoots in the woods and Fields and wherever you think is beautiful and just put something on that's like a tank top and shorts and we're just going to keep changing out our dresses they and take pictures of each other fantastic photos H it's so fun I never did anything like that in my whole life and now I have all these pictures of me and glamorous dresses out in dramatic backdrops that are near her house I remember I tweeted like a couple of them you know um saying like my mom did her first like fancy photo shoot ever and it got like 500 likes or something like oh wow that's good to know it was adorable even to people who don't know you yeah that was really funny so I I could appreciate when Ellen was invited into this dress paradise and she just had a blast with it and I thought good for her so yeah we both could recognize that was an unusual experience for her and they interviewed Gary and he is wondering well he's like I feel like I'm the most myself around her where I'm not trying to put on something and trying to be something which I thought was very interesting I didn't know I didn't know he felt that way about her but then you could totally see it because they they hadn't edited it so that we had seen this interaction between them we saw more with him and Natasha honestly from last episode that he had this really uh easygoing rapport with Natasha but I guess he's had that with Ellen as well and he wers will he have a romantic connection with her so the whole thing was set up to try to bring romance into their relationship and I wondered did you you know she she asks him she's like oh I have a much a bunch of questions and the first question she asked him is or the first one they revealed to us uh tell me about your wedding day and he's like I thought that was a weird question yeah um I think I think she thought of it as a really safe question but then I wondered have you ever asked a man before about his wedding day because whenever I've asked a man about his wedding day he has said it was one of the worst days I've ever had there I think women maybe in enjoy their wedding day most men I think don't enjoy their wedding day I know my dad enjoyed his wedding to Monica my stepmom because we still laugh but not ours cuz we still laugh about like the d The DJ is up the bartender and the bartender who looked exactly like Mike dka and poured one drink for himself for every drink he poured for other people and then it was well in other words men can find some humor in their wedding day but most of them didn't go like best day you got to get married three times and have the third one be in your backyard and just really low stakes like that's the secret so honestly if Ellen and Gary get married they're going to have a kickass great wedding day but he clearly didn't have one for his first one as he admits he was really broke and it was so long and they were just so long ago he can barely remember it but and a lot of life has happened to him since then and it was probably a really stressful time in his young life and I did think it it was funny that she and maybe other women have thought that your wedding days was one of your best days but it's not it's not I think it's a horrible day for a lot of women too I think it's just but honestly probably most men I would love if anybody watches this and there's comments later tell us what do you think women and men did they like their wedding day and did most men hate their why why do you think a men would be more likely what um what would be the reason I I think it's clearly because women do look forward to having a wedding day a lot of times throughout their their childhood teenage years or 20s they're thinking about their wedding day and most men have never thought about it before and so when men and women create a heterosexual wedding day they're usually trying to reenact the imagination of the woman's childhood wedding day and the guy is like whatever I am clearly a bit player in your imaginary wedding including me in it yeah that is so foreign to me because um I am I have never never Dre never imaged myd something like that no neither of us ever did and that might be the Hallmark of the neurode dierent women we're not necessarily having a dream of our wedding also I um I have just realized many times over I clearly don't really actually understand women and so I'm not one like I actually had this conversation yesterday in one of my classes with a team of all women in the team and we talked about it because the topic for one of my cases in class this semester is about a a wedding company is a wedding suit company and we talked about the imaginary wedding day and three of the Six Women said they had in detail already planned their weddings since they were little kids and um one said imagined but in detail and two said I haven't even thought about it so it makes sense yeah you do or you don't you're that kind of girl or not yeah I have had um I won't name her but you will know who it is I've only tried really to be friends with one neurotypical person ever and we also attempted to be roommates for a while well we were and we we wanted to like each other but we just like were so different and I do remember her asking me once um how do you want to be proposed to which uh like that question barely computed in my mind like that I haven't thought of a single element of that sentence ever and her other one was would my dad or my stepdad walk me down the aisle when I got married and I was just like I've never thought about any of these things and why would I think about them there's no I'm not get there's no wedding good sight like yeah that was my first time actually like I guess talking to a wedding obsessed girl yeah which it yeah it's it's kind of fascinating it's a cultural thing you know it's cultural and it's often there's a gender connection to it back to the culture so I wasn't surprised that Gary couldn't remember it and Ellen was just floored she couldn't imagine that that wasn't a perfect question to ask someone and he's like yeah no don't remember it um he gives her earrings and she is over the moon so like dresses earrings wedding she's clearly a romantic woman and then there's a hot air balloon and the rose and then they kiss too and she's like yeah I want to make out with this guy so much now she had such a romantic experience with him and that was really fun to watch I think my my take on her is that it's not only that she is romantic I think she also like just enjoys living in fantasy enjoys imagination you know like she probably would enjoy a very adventurous feeling day and you know like I think she just and you know um I can be like that as well so umh yeah she just like she gets into the spirit of whatever she's doing and really goes with the flow Gary seems kind of like a person who does that so I can see if they end up together I think they'd be a great couple I really could see it feel a lot of romance between them did you feel I didn't feel a lot of romance between them but I do think that barrier is back to these are adults who haven't made out with very many people and they're put into in front of cameras and it's just easier for all of the other Bachelor contestants if that's what we call them that they've made out with more people recently and they have thought more about being in front of a television than the people who are on this show so I I do think they have as much of a romantic connection as anybody and they have a good chance that they will end up together yeah um cuz it didn't feel like oh you know sometimes you can tell that there's a strictly platonic energy between people and it wasn't like that um no I can see if they were truly open-minded enough and you know had a similar I guess mindset to me I could see them having a great relationship that also maybe wasn't strictly monogamous um or wasn't like completely a traditional relationship you know like I I don't know that they yeah fit those completely standard like boyfriend girlfriend roles necessarily but they also are people who like if they could really let themselves go they don't they don't need to okay so then we get into the drama this is kind of how the episode winds up and maybe the other Bachelor Seasons the drama happen sooner but it has finally kicked in on this one they're down to 12 women they're going to kick a few of them out pretty soon and so there some of them are starting to actually play the game and some of them I think aren't picking up on it's a game so I wonder how much the women you individually were ready for the way that the show would likely turn if you put multiple people into one place and they're all auditioning or interviewing for the one job we're we're kind of narrowing down to only one person's going to win this thing that means it's going to start getting kind of competitive and me I think also this is just a great representation of what happens when you have a group of women of different neurot types because um yeah groups of made of different neurot types do not communicate well don't get along well that's there's that's just true like um and I I've experienced like the this conflict in from so many different angles like and there are so many ways to see it and so yeah I I found this very fascinating um and like perfectly why we have this podcast I would love to hear your take on it okay and then I would like to hear yours if it's similar or different so we were watching the they show a scene in the kitchen and you can see they've got I I was looking for where the hidden cameras are I'm like oh in that cook show and I don't know if you were doing that too because they keep showing all these different angles and I think oh I couldn't tell there's one in that you know it's not like the nanny teddy bear or anything but it has that we have one in the drawer that's looking out so they are trying to show this conversation that's happening between Kathy and Teresa and Teresa is revealing to Kathy I have feelings for him and I felt so close to him and now I haven't seen and talked to Gary for a while and I honestly when I was watching it you can see Kathy's kind of like oh Kathy is listening intently and if I were Teresa in this moment I'd think gosh I found a friend she's really listening to me that is what how she sees and I and I and I need to tell someone these feelings because I don't have any friends or family here I'm totally alone I have some feelings to process and this woman has locked eyes with me I've seen her also really talk to other women and listen to Susan she's such a good listener Kathy's really listening list to me I feel like I need to unburden some of this because I don't want to unburden it to everyone but Kathy is talking to me in the corner of this kitchen really listening to me thankfully I can finally say some of these feelings that I have and that's not what's happening Teresa is really misunderstanding Kathy's intention and relationship with her and of course I think there were a lot of us no Divergent types who went back to Middle School High School summer camp first job whatever it was and we can say I thought I had a friend in this woman and then she totally betrayed me and I never saw it coming because it never occurred to me that this woman who was listening really well wasn't trying to be my friend but instead was turning a whole thing into a way to weaponize the context against me and I felt badly for Teresa as especially when Kathy when she does turn it and she like can you believe that Teresa was talking to me in the kitchen and she also says and her clothes are impossibly small and then you know turns it into how dare this woman be petite and conniving and I was like oh my God Teresa is not reading this at all she is not understanding the Mean Girl thing that's happening around her and she is befriending the exact wrong person who's going to come back and get her and then that's what happened and then I do feel like I'm so glad I've grown up finally and I can start to see some of the Dynamics of how women treat each other I tend to if I open up to someone it's someone I've known for a while it is someone who it's often a man who is not involved in there's a reason I do not have um groups of female friends it doesn't work and you know during the pandemic I think I shared this with you and maybe some of my colleagues will watch this later I found out later at the end of the pandemic is because it's not totally over that there were women that I thought were in my close friend group that kept meeting throughout the pandemic and they didn't include me and it's because I am such a rule follower I did think oh well there's a pandemic and there's rules and we're not supposed to so when little kind of I could see it later they were testing me out individually would I tell on them also just would you make them met feel bad you know yeah yeah and would I have everybody mask up and we have to meet outside because that's all I was doing because that's what I thought everyone was doing and then no they were still meeting they just didn't include me and then they had kind of a no social media rule on on their their get togethers but it came up later good a good year later oh you you know when we met in the garage and we all and then we were at her house and I I was like oh yeah I wasn't part of that I had similar things uh happen um I think I was I don't mean this say a dig but like slightly less naive about it because I had I had started to figure out these things but I I had friends who um were hanging out without me and hanging out and you know just doing things they weren't supposed to do really and and I I could see like just they will they feel judged by my very existence even if I'm not judging them um and most especially neurotypical people but um most just most people um avoid feeling bad all the you know that's like one of their main drives is just of avoid feeling bad avoid feeling bad about yourself avoid any negative uncomfortable feeling and so if you cause that feeling even if it's even if you're not doing anything they're going to avoid you and I because then some of the language that Kathy says it's just horrifying and she says it to Teresa to try to make her feel bad and maybe I'm skipping ahead no I mean let's I mean no let's just yeah try trying and dissect the whole thing do you want to hear my my take on it I I mean I know you wanted to but do you want to hear it now sure yeah no I I I've got notes so I I found this really fascinating and exactly why these shows are interesting um because I I have finally like learned enough about the neurotypical perspective and how they communicate and how they think that I could see Kathy's perspective which I never could before um and I have started to basically have a little more respect for like why or it's like it doesn't make it's not as hurtful anymore that um people so frequently interpret autistic people as having um malicious intent because I can see now that um we frequently are indistinguishable from people with malicious intent and we yeah and she even says either she's really stupid or she's really malicious yeah and cuz I was really thinking about it too um because I didn't want to just go with my you know my emotional tendency to see myself in her and give her the benefit of the doubt you know like because I have learned that's just it's that's not smart don't do that all the time most people aren't aren't autistic so you know I have to I have to consider what if Kathy's right you know because unfortunately I've learned that perspective is true way more often than I could have ever imagined and sometimes Teresa is saying like saying things where it's like I was having a hard time seeing this as unintentional especially when she was really going in on all the um nice things that he had said to her you know and we connected on traveling and we just decided let's do it let's go to Italy and you know to really um go on and on about um things that uh they they weren't about her feelings they were about um and I understand it was sharing Joy from a great date but with it's hard to imagine that you can get to like 65 years old and not have any concept of your words affecting the person you're talking to yeah that she's talking to another cont and Kathy it would make her feel bad her vibe is changing she is like um because she's not just being a snake she is showing discomfort and and she wants her to stop because I I agree that like Kathy's perspective is horrifying and I think incorrect um and sadly that works a lot because just accusing somebody else of being the mean girl um first frequently means that's the story that will stick it's like you got to do it first but um It's usually the mean girl who first accuses someone else of being the mean girl um but she really does think that Teresa is being manipulative and and mean it's that's not a story that she's just creating in her mind she really thinks so and she really thinks so because people do that they actually do that and and and she's the kind of person absolutely so she does have that she makes the same kind of mistake that all of us make in thinking that other people are like we are and so uh if she if I said some she this is uh Kathy saying this if I said something like that to another person I would be doing it because I'm trying to win and I'm trying to make her doubt herself so she'll lose so kthy can't imagine that maybe Teresa is just unloading but as you say if you're unloading you shouldn't unload on someone that you know you're actually going to harm through that unloading and and so you know like if you went you went up to a a person on the street that you could see is struggling financially and said I just lost so much money on the stock market and it my portfolio is down what it really was I just got so much money on the stock market you would not believe how well this one stock did and I really didn't even put in any Research into it and it just kind of went on a wom and my my returns of doubles that's what she's doing cuz it's mostly she's sharing excitement um but she was also saying I feel badly that I haven't been able to connect with since then and other people are connecting with him that's part worried now you know yeah um so there is a cluelessness to it or there is a real to it just because and this is also true of I I can be manipulated we all can so I am inclined to say because of um seeing Teresa's emotional reactions in the interviews and stuff I am inclined to believe that this was unintentional and she um is just probably way more neurod Divergent than anyone has figured out you know like in her life so she has not learned how to account for that at all um and she's not being intentionally manipulative and intentionally playing a game in fact she's unaware that this game is happening so that is what I'm inclined to believe but I do also just I know now intellectually and logically that there are people who are so convincing at playing exactly that and crying and getting you to feel bad for them and I uh I would be a fool to pretend that I can tell the difference it's that's just like humans are not good at telling when other people are lying we have no skill for it so she could be a master manipulator I think she's probably not but um it is it was fascinating to see that like I can I I Kathy is creating this situation but I can see why she thinks she's responding to a situation that has already been created and why that's not just a crazy thing to do you know know like I can see her reasoning behind it and that there are there like potential realities in which she would be correct and Erica I think that's such a beautiful conclusion that you've come to because it also shows so much growth that's happened in you you understand the world better now you're less susceptible to straight out harms from people who are trying to manipulate or are unaware in their manipulation and I'm really glad for you you know I hope other people who watch the show and maybe hear your take on it and the other shows that you review such as Love is Blind I hope that they get some more of that learning from being near your experience that you can see that we don't know what someone's really going through and we don't know exactly what their intention is we are always trying to figure it out and to interpret it but much of our interpretation will absolutely be wrong even sometimes when we try to interpret our own behaviors and our own intentions we might still be wrong and um unfortunately um if you try to interpret other people based off of what makes sense to you what it would mean if you were doing it um as an autistic person in a world with that is not majority autistic you will be wrong almost all the time like and this was the point I wanted to make about Gary so he he has this one on-one conversation with Kathy and she does bring him the drama and the tears and it did seem so kind of scripted calculated but I also thought I don't know she doesn't seem like a real crier and she is crying so is she making herself cry or is she reluctantly actually breaking down in front of him all I know is Gary interprets it as there is drama happening and this poor woman is a victim of it he just really he into she's a victim of it and I thought oh man Gary is just like the rest of us interpreting the world through his own experience and when he's thinking when I cry it is 100% authentic and he cries often and easily and it is authentic so of course if Kathy who is a strong woman would cry in front of me it must be because there's a real trauma that's happened to her is happening to her and he feels feels so badly for her he gives her a rose and I thought oh man this is makes me a little worried for Gary's future that he's so e easily ready to rescue with the rose is a rescue and I was a little worried for him and autistic people in general were very susceptible to like exactly this kind of thing this sort of emotional manipulation that prays on our empathy and because we do not not expect that people there's like people we know in our normal lives are going to actually be implementing these like super complicated and extreme like manipulation plans like that just feel unreal but it is real because Kathy absolutely is manipulating him on purpose and I and and you had this happen in Middle School and I remember it really well that and you do too as soon as I say it I'm sorry it's probably Gonna Make You It's Gonna Make You em probably not because I've had this happen to me a million times throughout my life this one it was one of the first times that you saw it and reflected on it and talked to me about it in detail that you had a friend who died and then when you were back at school there were girls who expressed intense sadness about it that you knew didn't know him and they were trying to get attention because a young guy had died and so they wanted to now show their their group that they were wounded and needed comforting and you were horrified by it because you knew these girls didn't even know him they just want attention because this is the moment they could get some if they show how torn up they are at the loss of this friend of yours yeah and and that is the kind of thing that like I have had to discover that those people and those situations are real because I wouldn't believe that without having the proof right in front of me which also means yeah when people interpreted me that way basically anytime someone has interpreted me as an AR typical um it made no sense to me and it was baffling and honestly it never really affected my sense of self I because it just so ludicrous I just thought other people are paranoid and like unrealistic um but now I I could see that like they were interpreting me that way because um most of the time if somebody was doing exactly that same thing I was doing or whatever um they um it would be it would have a completely different meaning you know um and it's too bad that we've have all seen it multiple times that someone is turning on a level of emotion to try to manipulate the emotions of others around them and then it does feel like that's what Kathy is doing in this moment with Gary and he completely buys it but I wonder if he completely bought it or if he just thought whenever a woman cries completely buy it or he wouldn't have given Teresa Rose that's what I was actually really worried about is is he going to be played so complet because that is a something very frustrating that I've experienced where um where people have just completely believed someone who was just lying and manipulating and like and to watch them completely fall for it was so frustrating um and I so I was worried about that and so I'm glad that he he didn't buy that completely but because we have seen that happen too and I actually had a good you know a good bad a good a clear is what I mean childhood memory about that of that happening also in my family using tears to manipulate a parent and I've seen other kids do that where they manipulate a parent through tears to get one kid in trouble kid be the B it's like I know it's real but I I can't I couldn't do it and I can't imagine doing it like it's another reason why you were such a joy to raise as a child you were so authentic all the time and I appreciate you just being being yourself all the time also I my least favorite feeling in the world is people feeling bad for me or feeling like pity for me so I cannot imagine trying to get that feeling on purpose um but yeah I so I think my I know like and you you got to go soon so this is sort of my concluding thought on this well I'm not concluding yet CU I still okay well um so this is sort of where I I land on it is um it's impossible to make yourself um impervious to emotional manipulation um and if you were that would it me that would mean such skepticism and distrust of everyone in your life all the time and just on the balance that's not worth it I think it's better to sometimes be manipulated and also um be a good friend and be there for other people you know it's better to just like believe people when they say they feel a certain way believe them um and sometimes they'll be lying to you but most of the time hopefully if you have not surrounded yourself with horrible people it will be real because also um refusing to believe somebody when they are sharing their genuine feeling is so awful it's so painful I would rather fall for manipulation sometimes you just have to have really strong boundaries of like what that means like just because I might believe somebody that doesn't mean I'm going to um lend them my car or give them money or you know and also a rule that I have basically for myself is um no matter how convincing someone's story is I'm not going to take their word for it and create a negative perception of someone else that is I have learned that it there will be two sides to a story that both sound completely believable and both make sense and um and I'm not going to just believe the first one I hear I think that causes so much damage because then you usually end up um believing the person who uh wants to manipulate you because they're the one who's going to actively seek you out to tell you that story and I also have had people just lie about me in such insane ways that it just made me realize like um I'm never going to just take people's word for it like when they tell me about you know gossip about other people um I'm because I know that a most people are willing to just hear a story have no evidence for it have no corroboration even and just believe it and I think that's foolish and and frequently ends up really hurting people so that I think basically I think the way he handled it is the right way he believed Kathy in that moment he supported her but he didn't punish Teresa for it again he's a winner he they they picked the right guy have a hard time doing it season two yeah yeah he he's H setting such a high bar for humans but uh certainly for for guys who might go on this this show in the future I did think that with the the Kathy Teresa drama it's good for anyone who wants to go back to rewatch those end the your the final interactions between the two women the language that each of them is choosing with the with the The Producers as they talk to the producers but also as they try talking to each other the language reveals their level of manipulation and maybe it could be strategies of manipulation is Teresa trying to manipulate Kathy it doesn't feel like to me and primarily because of the language that she chooses where she says I want to try to repair this relationship and then Kathy says things like you've made me feel you made me feel I was like H yeah and she says don't don't cry those two things I thought okay that's just straight up gaslighting language and I don't know how people feel about but I can also see she thinks she is setting up a boundary to not be manipulated because she thinks that um that what that what Teresa is doing in this moment is um basically that Teresa is trying to gas light her and then start crying on purpose to emotionally manipulate her so she's like don't do it I think Kathy just thinks I have the upper hand you were the contestant that looked like you might win and I'm trying to get you off the show it feels to me completely like this is game playing we did this in high school and I'm good she is gam playing but she thinks Teresa is game playing too she really does I think she does think because also people who really are gam playing like that all the time they they can't imagine that there are people who don't do that like they don't really believe that they think that's basically always a lie if you say that you don't play those games that's you playing a game right now that's part of the game right um so anyway then they get to the Rose ceremony they two women that they didn't include in the talent shows so they were kind of already previewing that they were going to kick them off and one woman left of own well so we've got nine women left they did some previews looking to next week pickle ball four-wheelers hot tub I didn't see as many tears uh but it looks like it's going to be an exciting episode I think we'll have some I didn't ever talk about my own dating history yet my recent one so maybe we'll get to that and uh as we review episode four I look forward to it yeah me too um and oh what oh yeah I was just going to say too I I agree with you about like the language they're using and and and totally turned off by Kathy's language and totally um understand and empathize with Teresa's language but then right at the end of the Rose ceremony Teresa says like she wants to try and rebuild this with Kathy and then she starts saying she starts doing the same thing yeah he came to my room and he said the nicest thing to me he really he just said the sweet and I was he came to your room but then she keeps going with he said the sweetest thing to me and and I'm just like yeah I I can see why people are suspicious of you because it is hard to believe that you don't realize what you're doing cuz you started doing it inmed just a boundary and you crossed the boundary immedi like you know very good points C okay we're going to talk again next week yeah I guess yeah I won't talk to you again until then just kidding um no part Talks Tom I love you I love you too Mom all right bye bye aliens watching reality TV is hosted by Erica hawald and Josh Sher it's produced and edited by Erica hawald that's me and our theme song is just World by Erica hawald which is also me available for streaming on iTunes and Spotify for $5 a month you can subscribe to our patreon and get an extra full length episode of the podcast every week right now we're covering Love is Blind season 1 we'd love to hear from you our social media links are in the episode notes or you can write to us at aliens watching realitytv gmail.com thank you for listening and as always until death to us part amen welcome to the world let me tell tell you what I've learned about it