Michael Vaughan and Phil Tufnell remember Graham Thorpe | V&T Cricket Club podcast

hello everyone and welcome to the vony and tougher Cricket Club a podcast brought to you by the telegraph my name is Ben Wright and I'm joined as usual by Michael vaugh and Phil Tel good to see you boys good to be back in our fantastic studio our studio I just feel that we all need a bit of oiling need a bit of oiling bit of oil after a long day at the 100 bit L seed oiling yeah we're a bit creaky this morning in today's episode we'll look ahead to the upcoming test series against Sri Lanka with the first match starting on Wednesday the 21th of August at Old Trafford plus we'll be discussing the recent 100 finals and rating some of the performances we've seen over the last month but uh I think it's only right that we begin today's episode paying tribute to Graeme Thorp who you two both knew so well uh a wonderful batsman Graham spent his whole first class career with sari and represented England in 100 test matches between 1993 and 2005 Thorp very sadly took his own life earlier this month at the age of 55 um Michael and Phil you both played alongside him the news of his death must have been a huge shock to you yeah yeah horrible um I mean thoria was first and foremost one of the great players yeah and also I mean I'm sure Phil will say exactly the same one of the great teammates you know he just had a he he was a cheeky chappie you know he he could deliver he had that white line fever that as soon as he went over the white line he could just he could sweep which you on and play pretty much any Innings against any bowler in any situation whether it was test match cricket white ball cricket and then as soon as you came back over the white line into the dressing room he was chilled he was chilled he was relaxed he was humorous yeah he was sh with great great kind of uh he was always a great leveler for a young player like I was when I went into the England side you know you're always looking to your peers really to see how they operate and how they go about the business and I always kind of watched you know my asane Alex Stewart um all different in their own way but there was something about thorpy that I could see that he was he was a world- class performer but also I I just liked his mindset off the field I I felt that he could switch off you know and he was brilliant always talking to the younger players about you've got to have that switch you've got to get away from the game you've got to make sure you you know you're not always thinking about Cricket you know when you go to training you go on the focus of the training field yes you start focusing and he was as good as anybody even back in oh I was think it was Pakistan one of the first TOS I went with him and he was the the first really to scrub up nets you know get a load of uh sand on the length because he know the ball was going to spin he wanted practice to be harder you know he wanted the ball to be spinning really sharply in practice so you know the old ad is you know if you practice hard the game should be a little bit easy it's not always the case but from the way that he practiced and focused in practice uh was a great example to all the young players and then he just had this he had these eyes tough cookie was he had the eyes when he when he went out to play and bat he had the eyes to to to produce um yeah it's it's so sad that he's left and Phil since he's died that there's been this sort of tidal wave of emotion which kind of shows the esteem he's held by supporters certainly people who grew up watching England in the 90s when he was he was the rock around which the the batting U was anchored yeah um and also by fellow Pros absolutely uh 100 test match is sort of uh you know volumes not many guys do that um yeah we became big friends actually very very quickly I mean he was sort of like I was a little bit before him and then he got into the side and uh the only times that we sort of came across each other was perhaps middle sex versus S which was always a bit of a needle match and uh and then he came into the side we became friends very very quickly long tours in those days you know three and four months uh you used to be away and used to have to get on with your mates you know what I mean and uh great sense of humor as you say tough cookie with the bat in his hand and um you know but I mean God we had some laughs you know I mean c O'Reilly we had some laughs you know he a good wingman thought me you know he used to wake me up all the time you know he sort of like very quickly realized that I needed get you know to be woken up virtually every morning and he'd wake you up and sort of go white cat man and he'd go you know what I mean he said you up I go yeah yeah thanks great thanks great and he'd be sitting there you sort of like stagger onto the bus and he'd sort of be sitting there as you say calm relaxed having a little chat or you know having a bit of a laugh at the back of the bus and he's all right cat you know what I mean I go yeah all right gray you know what I mean everything all right and they go yeah if's all right and he go you know we were all right last night with me yeah no you were sweet mate sweet absolutely fine no worries oh good everything good yeah everything good mate oh okay what are we doing today well um you know you're going to go and bowl at Australia and then uh you know what I mean and then I'm probably after T going to have to have a little bat against Australia oh that's all right then and then uh okay then well we we better get going then and uh and then well off we go and then it was it was a new day you know and that was what tourim was like in those days he was a great bloke um if you think about it filer play 100 test matches I believe from the guys that played in the 90s were you know yeah you weren't on Central contracts you weren't given a guarantee of a year contract which pretty much says that you're going to be in and around the team you know nowadays you get two and threee contracts you know and there was so much chopping and changing uh I don't think there was any kind of structure to selection I don't think there was any real structure to the management side you had to find your own path in those days really really did we weren't set up with any tools you know what I mean you know we were just sort of like oh c it we've been pick the tour Australia okay well you know mean we're leaving on Saturday you know what I mean and then you just sort of sit there and you don't particularly know anyone and so you have to form friendship and then you have to kind of find a way to get through it you know what I mean and as you say you have to rely on each other and Mike you talked about how he sort of welcomed you into the side when you joined and he was out in the middle when you scored your maiden test yeah he didn't realize actually cuz uh Wasim had flung it over the Wicket Keeper's head for four buys and I I kind of worked out that that was going to be a six and not not or two to get me from 94 to 100 so I had to tell him I've got 100 I think gray which was uh great you you always have an affiliation with um with a lot of players that you play with but you know particularly as a young bat when you get your first 100 you remember who was at the other end and you know he was the Senior Pro kind of guided me through that that period from 50 to 100 um I always remember when I got the captaincy that you know I wanted to take England in a direction of being a bit bit more positive and um Fitness was going to be a massive key and I wanted us to be a fitted team so we could play harder Cricket for longer and I always remember Thor because he was a great player actually came to see me and said look you know my back's a bit sore but I'm binding to everything that you're doing and I said you know what I'll look after you whatever you need me to do whatever I can do to help you so if I say that we're going to train at certain times and that training doesn't look like you're going to be able to do it just look like you're doing something yeah so it might be that you going in the gym just like you're stretching or doing I don't care what you do CU I want to look after you CU he was that good but to think that he came and saw me you know cuz I remember giving a speech it was in not Nottingham um my first game at Lord was oh we were a disaster we got battered by South Africa and then we go to Trent bridge and I'm like I'm nervous so I have to I Nassar say you've got to you've got to have that moment as a captain where you tell the team what you want and I did it at Trent Bridge it's a rallying cry I had to give it in I gave it him quite straight and it was gra that K just went look I'm absolutely right behind you this is exactly what English Cricket needs and it'll take a bit of time but as a senior Pro I'm going to buy into everything that you're going to try and do um and he's the one play that in 05 we'd have loved to have you know his back wasn't quite right and he was the player that you know if you go through to the 90s where Australia dominated he he played so well against you know I would say mcgr was at his pump in the late 90s feel around then Shane War bowling beautifully then you had g b in Rockets he was the Wicket they you know they they had a wonderful team and he he he stood up to that Aussie attack on on a regular basis I I've read something that I can't remember the exact number but something like his first 32 tests were against Australia South Africa and West IND no freebies yeah they all had great bowling attacks in the didn't they yeah they had magnificent bowling attacks and it was a it was it was a sort of a calming influence actually wasn't he you know what I mean I mean he was sort of a fiery sort of chap about certain aspects of cricket and life and things like that but um yeah he I always went to Graham for sort of like a you know he everything all right you know what I mean yeah it was like a psychologist at times yeah it was quiet quiet when he you know but not a man of great you know a lot of words you know didn't speak just for the sake of speaking but when he did speak you know what I mean he's just sort of put everything into perspective very very well and just sort of like you thought oh well this is all right you know what I mean you know we'll be all right today gray W I always felt what whatever the day we had whether it was a great day or a very poor day it it'd be the same yeah you know just be the same person in the morning after he go we go again you know make everyone smile yeah and again make everyone laugh um I spent a lot of time with him actually in Pakistan playing PlayStation you know he was Chelsea I think I was a man united after the J was AR and he was going through difficulties at home there was a few problems and he eventually left that tour um which actually gave me my opportunity into the team around that time but uh you know he loved Chelsea yeah oh Chelsea Chelsea and he used to be so competitive on the PlayStation you know he'd get up and kick the kick the sofa or run around the room if he scored a goal like every every day when you toured in those days uh every time you opened your eyes it was an adventure you know what I mean you just didn't know what was going to happen a little bit chaotic a little bit sort of like hap Hazard and that was the cricket that was the buses that was the coaches that was the airlanes you know every time you just woke up if you if you let it get to you you know what I mean you you know I mean you'd be all over the place so you had to to wake up you know the the breakfast wasn't right or the laundry hasn't come back if you let it get to you you know what I mean you'd have no chance and so you just sort of stuck together had a great laugh and laughed at everything really 16 of you 17 of you w you know running around different countries you know playing Cricket doing your best and then having a laugh in the evening it was great fun had such good fun he clearly he had his his demons though um and he's talked about he wrote about in his autobiography about the breakdown he had had in the 2002 uh Lords test and I think that was against India um he he wrote at one point there came a time when uh I would have given back all my test runs and test caps just to be happy again we've since had players like Marcus troik and Jonathan Trot and more recently Ben Stokes uh talking about their mental health do you think there's big been a big change in the way the topic is treated in the sport yeah you know I I think Marcus scoic did a a great service to all all all sports people um you know someone at the the height of his profession playing incredibly well yet couldn't go out and play and couldn't all because of the illness that he had and he came out and did a brilliant book um you know I'll be I saw a bit of that from Graham when he was in Pakistan and he was he was struggling yeah you know with Marcus I never saw it you know it's an invisible illness which is the the hardest illness to treat um but I did over the last few years in particular uh through overse coaching with the England team after the ashes there was Whispers and rumors about grahe of not being happy and yeah things not being great and you know Cricket is is one of those sports that you know it's been documented um a lot about the the mental side of the game and the mental pressures and the stresses that you're you're put on because you're away from home and you know Cricket's a hard game it you having to think about it you know test Cricket five days days a week you're thinking about and you kind of look at this year and what England are trying to do now with you know getting the players to play golf and we kind of take the mick out of it now and again that you have to be a golfer to play in the England team but I fundamentally understand what they're doing they really are trying to make sure that the players enjoy it yeah and if you're not enjoying it you know you can go back to your room and you can just think about you know trying to get another run or trying to get another Wicket um and it can drain you can drain the life out of you and I go back to the '90s and you know fil played a lot more in the '90s than I did but you know they weren't rewarded yeah you they weren't rewarded like the players these days and that's not saying that you know just because you're rewarded you can't go through any kind of illnesses of course you can but you know I have always a huge amount of admiration for the England team in the 80s and 90s I really do because I I came through an area that I I came into the side in 99 and and pretty much straight away I was centrally contracted looked after had a bit of a protection blanket around me when we toured you know we we turned left on the plane and just little things got great hotels good expenses the families could come and visit whenever really in the 90s they didn't have any of that you know I'm pretty sure you had to pay for the the the imagine you're going to Australia for four months to play against the best team in the world arguably at that time and you're only getting you're not getting a lot of do and then you want to try and get your family and your kids over for Christmas and New Year and it's probably going to cost you yeah people kind of probably go are you're lucky doing what you do but wait a minute it's your job you know you're going over there to deliver your job and then you're having to pay all this money for all your family then that's that's a stress so there so many things that uh happened back in the '90s for the England players and cricketers in general that I look back and think they did well to I spent most of my tour theory on phone calls you know what I mean and yeah yeah and a few beers perhaps but yeah know I had a I had a couple of uh I had a couple of wobbles uh on tours I mean I went on quite a few tours I think I went on about eight or nine tours for England and uh yeah I had a couple of wobbles not at the beginning the first couple of Tours your fresh face you're young you're single you're out there you're representing your country it's absolutely fabulous but those sort after those sort of like initial sort of times you then sort of become an established member of the side and that's when things you know start to sort of like Heap on your on your shoulders a little bit and uh yeah I got fined both times uh for having a tear in In Me In Me room sort of late one night um yeah fine for really got yeah got fin yeah got cuz you cried yeah yeah cuz I had a little sort of breakdown late one night I think you know I think I was was getting divorced or something you know what I mean the washing machine had broken down or something you know what I mean and I couldn't you know you couldn't sort anything out things weren't going well on the field or off the field and so you sort of sat there and you sort of like I think I threw the television out the window I and uh and and sat down fought whole field of freight as he was in the toilet and he was sort of saying you know you know I think you know I think Simone see needs to come and have a word with Phil you know what I mean he's he's having a bit of a having a little bit of a sort of a do you know and uh and so uh they came in there they sort of you know the Physio and everything they sort of put their arm around you and did what they could do and sort of like had a little chat with you and got someone in to come and have a chat with you a couple of days later went to see him in the uh you know in the team room they said uh yeah we find you 2,000 quid and I went what which would have been a a quite high percentage to be toy you know what I mean and I said what and they said well you know what I mean we're going to have to find you you know I said what you're finding me for sort of being upset and uh yeah that's how it was in those days I'm afraid you know happened a couple of times but I don't think that they really knew how to handle it well they didn't know how to hand you know you've just said something that if you think about in the 90s Phil's just said he spent most of his money on phone calls yeah there was no you know Skype no that you could just remember you're going on you're going on you're going on talk it up you might be able to speak to people but you can't see your kids you know you can go on Skype at least you can see your kids and have a half decent conversation and you see what they're up to they can show you what they've done at school or you know what what what the kind of activities are um as I said I have a a huge amount of admiration for for all cricketers the nights for for what they've had to go through and you know it can drain you really Lov every single minute of it though you know loved every single minute of you formed friendships you formed bonds with players it's sort of like backs against the wall and nothing better you know that you know you know going out there at the MCG or the scg and everyone's having a go at you you know what I mean and you look around the dresser room and that's when you catch the eyes of your mates you know what I mean you think oh bloody hell you know what I mean it's is a bit tasty you know and you have to sort of then uh you know you know a you know what I mean you go right off okay off we go lost a toss at the gabber okay off we go Lads you know what I mean and they're they they're coming for you you know what I mean when you got three on day one well yeah yeah it was actually honestly but I mean yeah you yeah but you sort of an absolute Road wasn't it yeah it was an absolute Road and you think and that's you know you're talking about draining off the field and what have you but that drain you that drains you when you know what you're up against you know what I mean you know these boys ain't messing about you know you know and we're not messing about either you know we're out there to do a job just as much as they are but sometimes you come up against and you were talking about the attacks you know you know Donald and Pollock Walsh Ambrose wazim wacka I mean everyone had an attack you know and there was sort of us who were trying TR were trying that was the year where they went to India you know and and D re's M had to score because the score got ill I mean you you took I mean you probably took what in your backround team to India four not even that you have you had a physio we had a physio yeah we had old Lori Brown old Lor Lor Brown X-Man United fysio Lori all right that's how you doing you know I mean what's the matter or you know I mean he just but I mean yeah it was it was it was great fun but looking back at it you know Cy O'Reilly you had to have a you had to have a little bit of Bott about you otherwise you know what I mean you just get you just get marized thank you Mike and Phil for sharing your memories of Graham Thorp our thoughts of course at this time are with his family and friends you boys were at the the 100 yesterday um how have you enjoyed the tournament this year um I enjoyed the the last weekend I thought the eliminators uh with the super five on Saturday night was was fantastic whole crowd at the oval oh what happened there oh Liam low 11 off five no ball six three off five required left arm spinner bowling how did you not get over the line but they didn't and I actually thought with the brave of the way that they got through the the group stages with a rained off game getting them that one point to go above the supercharges to get in the elimination I thought he written in the stars for the brave yeah then they sneak through the eliminators on a super five and then get to L think they're going to win it easy I thought Lord y it was absolutely magnificent it I I honestly thought 22,000 for the women's game in the afternoon um 28 for Zar Lon comes out and sings Through The Long room never seen that before strolling down the step gets on a tractor goes around the ground you know bearing any mind we're told we're not allowed to walk across the Hallow Turf to do any kind of commentary during the got tracks are so brilliant and you know there was a great atmosphere and and I know the 100 it's like brexit isn't it you're either in or you're out well I don't know i' I've actually yeah I mean I don't think it's Marite for me I've actually got mixed feelings about it because it's it's clearly it's bringing in new fans it's great for the women's game it's bringing money much needed money into the game whether we need it in another format the sort of enforced jolity of it uh and what it does to the season I don't like I don't think it's um you know so many things I mean social me is not a great adjudicator of many things but God it it brings out some Venom hundra brings out Venom in people all I'll say is from from my perspective you'll leave the overall you'll leave Lords on a test match evening after a test match day and by the way the test matches for me are still the Pinnacle by Country Mile and when you leave there as a broadcaster you will get some there'll be some piss off idiots it's Lively all I'm saying is from my experience that Lords last night you leave the ground and there is a completely different crowd there's a load of kids and everyone's happy there's no abuse flying everyone's just smiling load of kids are trying to get autographs and selfies that's the trend these days um I'll be honest about this year 100 I think the ECB screwed up I think they put it what way I think they put up against the Olympics right so scheduling I just think the scheduling of this year 100 was was poor when you think you're trying to sell it for a lot of money um you know I I think the ECB have got to make a very very U kind of brutal call I I don't think there should be bilateral one day series anymore I think you should play bilateral series a month before the World Cup whatever the World Cup is whether it's T20 or 50 over that's the month that you get together with your team to play that format you should be picking your teams now if you want these franchise leagues to be a success and people are say oh just get rid of them well you can't because they're going to earn too much money if you get rid of the bilateral um one day Series in your summer then you can have a prominent four-week window where all your England players will be able to play every single game you at the IPL the IPL is a massive success it's a juggernaut clearly IND is a a hot bed for Cricket billions watch it billions play it huge TV deals but all of the Indian players can play every single game you know and pretty much most of the international players make sure that April May they're available for that I'm pretty sure that the ECB can work a system where for the four weeks of the 100 in the future every single England player can be available the only way to do that is to get rid of the bilateral one day Series so we play shanka now for three test matches then there's one day series against Australia you kind of cleared that was in oh yeah in the of TV contract well let's do a new TV contract when that expires let's go for a new one bilateral one day series for me are just they're just a game yeah there's nothing really there's no consequence just a game people generally rotate their squads around those bilateral games now um so that's for me what the ECB should do make the 100 prominent four-week window in the summer uh I'm not saying that you should have it at the same time all the time so why would you go up against Olympics in four years time in particular cuz Cricket's in the Olympics so why would you go up against the olymp where Cricket's going to be where you might have to lose some of your players I don't know what the team will be that great bit and choose but um I think scheduling is the key I think that's affected it massively but it was saved at the back end by the weekend which was absolutely spectacular it was a great day out it was a great day out yesterday I mean we were doing the commentary on it and uh we was exhausted at the end of the day you know I mean Cy Ry talk about something happening every ball fireworks going off you know as you say tractors singing dance in you know it was a great day out and everyone thoroughly enjoyed themselves and I had a great day I thoroughly enjoyed it it was just it was who whoos whoos but what what I don't like is when people say oh you you know you're only praising it because you're getting paid to come I we love all Cricket give me a T10 give me a 20 overs 50 overs 40 overs the Metro bank's been absolutely magnificent and people forget that you know the Metro Banks allowed so many young players to play now if the hund wasn't there the Metro Bank would be played by all the senior players and these younger Generations won't be getting that opportunity to go and play in games you know at Lords at Old Trafford um get that opportunity to mix it with some of the senior Pros that aren't playing in the 100 uh some of the overseas players that have come over and played in that tournament you know these younger players have got an incredible platform now um it just needs to be worked out with the scheduling it really does and the ECB I I'm just sick and tired of I just don't I'm just saying the CB are sending out mixed messages you know just back it yeah you know you're trying to sell it for hundreds of millions of pounds well come out publicly and back it just absolutely get behind the 100 and back it because how are you going to sell something for or a franchise for 50 to 70 million when you're not actually publicly backing it massively yourselves you know get out there and back it if you think that's what you're going to get and that's the kind of uh value that you you going for get on the front foot and back it and get behind it and and the players love it mean were doing the interviews afterwards I mean they're they they're a proper team the over invis you know what I mean they've got it really well coached by Tom Moody uh they just fight and scrap and they've got that sort of franchise or whatever you want to call it sort of like really going in the right direction and uh you could tell by Sam Billings you know what I mean they wanted that you know what I mean properly it's not bit a hit and giggle and you know let's all have a laugh you know what I mean and he said something he said the 100 is a tough competition to win and so if you get that on your SE TV that that means something you know it's just not like a great big silly sort of the age I I thought his capsy was great he was just the way he was using his Bowlers Top Class very clever that you know all the shorter format games now are quite a quite a strategized operation you all the different kind of tactics the different Maneuvers the different busy subtle field changes to every single battle they know exactly where everyone there's so much data now yeah um you know I personally and again uh I'd go for two more seems I'd have one endur and have one down in the southwest make it a 10 team tournament there's a bit of a desert in the southwest you know the argument would be would you take it to a T20 tournament I think uh you know you could argue that some of the franchise earners from India may want a T20 tourn but fundamentally it's about the audiences and you know if you take it to a T20 is that too long a day um you know maybe TV thres TV might not like that as much um but I would make it a 10 team tournament in the future whether it's next year the year after don't know when that can happen but uh 10 teams would be a nice structure for me um and just see where we can take it but they it has to be backed you're talking about making sure all the England players play in it obviously one of the downsides this year was Ben Stakes pulling his hamstring eat you can't have your cake and eat it okay you know I mean know what was Ben doing playing in the 100 well as he say he wanted to play in the 100 he wants to go and showcase you know what I mean he wants to get the kids involved and you're going to get inj I got injured getting at the bath when I played got playing golf I mean so that's that's the ironic situation because it happened in the 100 bom the venomous kind of social media Warriors are in smashing the 100 why are the 100 they weren't doing that when Johnny BTO got injured playing golf yeah you know so it's kind of uh it's just that tournament it just seems to bring this hatred but there are so many people that love it yeah you know people are forgetting that there are 28,000 people turned up at Lords yeah you know flouts the over the night before the women's game has had a fantastic platform breaking record a fantastic platform so the 100 over four years if you think back to the IPL when it started it took a few years to get going and now four years into the 100 and I think this I'll be I think this has been the worst of the four years yeah you know I think this year BS done a bit it yeah like that I like it I like a 140 150 par I think that's a good game of 100 ball Cricket when he gets to 19200 B is not doing quite enough and the pitches are too flat so there's a there's a fine balance the fin especially the men's final was a sort of won by the bowlers wasn't it yeah yeah and you know the southern Brave they could have chased that down it probably required James vinc to about another 30 40 balls but um look it's a product that's it's over four years I do think this has been the worst of the four years because of the the the the kind of competitive nature against the Olympics but um it's Gathering a little bit momentum and I went to Headly in the super CH a lot of purple shirts a lot of purple shirts yesterday you look at the crowd a lot of oval Invincible shirts a lot of Southern bracers so these kids they are starting to affiliate themselves it might take a few more years for them to get that real Competitive Edge of the Darby you know supercharges versus the original I'm not too sure whe get like Yorkshire Lancashire we're talking about like like many many years of that rivalry now we're only four years in so the kids were talking about it out the back I went for you know I mean and were kids just s the there going oh you know I mean you could see the passion for the invincibles you know what I mean they were going no we've got this we've got that it's like sort of a game of top trumps you know what I mean they were really buying into that sort of their team and you're saying in our day it was you know middle sex versus S Essex and all that but there is now a sort of a a different vibe about it and you know and they were bantering you know what I mean we're better than you we got better samp's better than your Ley or you know mean our top five is better than your top five although some of my friends at home when they watch they think that seems one's called the butteriss one's called the pom bear one's called KPS they're the biggest logos aren they um you mentioned zampa there um who are some of the standout across the women and the men's tournaments uh for you because he he was obviously a tremendous addition to the two current boys yeah uh zampa just a good all round side you know I mean James Vince top run scorer tomal Mills Chris Jordan usual kind of players that just perform jof jof produced a bit of magic at times um deep dis armor for the women absolutely outstanding average of well over a 100 nipped him with a red Knight up over of off I'm pretty sure she was wearing shin pads yesterday bowling Phil she had shinies on sh honestly she had shinies under her trousers not too sure about that but yeah she's been fantastic um just little things that you see that you particularly in the women's game that you go oh yeah I like that Danny Gibson's in him yesterday went there six fours in seven balls completely changed the momentum um just having that free spirited player in the middle of the Innings um Heather Knight's been Rock Solid yeah she's a wonderful player Heather brilliant player particularly against spin um and shabman isma she dropped the catch to to see the the spirit over the line uh but her bowling her Pace three wickets were just about to get the fire uh to LIF in that trophy but yeah over the four years the the main success has been the women's game but I do think that there's something happening within the men's game which is quite good and obviously when all this investment comes in and again it's when it's it's not a matter of it's not coming in it's when it's going to come in it's just how that that that works and I do think in time for it to become that special tournament and and in four or five years time it starts to be talked about globally oh you know it's the IPL you're not going to compete with that but then yeah the tournament in England that's what you want to go and play uh they're going to have to get the the price up they're going to have to start writing some bigger checks for the uh the teams and the only way that they can do that is to get some uh big investment in one intriguing Prospect for next year is Jimmy Anderson who's been talking about how he quite likes the idea of playing some white has it's been moving around you said the ball moving around nobody moves around better than him having him playing Cricket's tennis player now um oh why not I mean if the ball Hoops around a bit well I think Mo said that he he was looking to get him last year the Rockets were going to get him weren't they they mo go for him this year did they well he said he said that because they were having some injuries he said one one more injur injury and it would have been on the phone to Jimmy listen I tell you something it bow well with that ball I mean it Hoops early on and it stays swinging a bit as well well you could argue that there's a value yeah there's a volume in tyan Norris just bowled a lot of the time five balls at the start of the Innings yeah now could Jimmy Anderson just whip out five balls if it goes well give him another 510 you're not going to Bow him down the back end that's not going to happen but a five ball bowler Jimmy Anderson try and get one at the top yeah stopped them getting their eyes in and they what a job that would be five ball bowler he's also a great Fielder as well around too early I was well you could if he gets to a stage where he's a bit croaky in the field you could easily work way of getting off you're five at the start off you go yeah there been a few well no theyve been a few of those with the bat hasn't they a new rule is get in get in you got to have a bit to do that with your bowler as well God BL well still a good Fielder why not he why not you do you point right so a batter is batting badly right and you want them in off get in you should be able to bring your bowler off mid five yeah you're taking a batter off the embarrassment of a batter strolling on by the way the batter has to walk all the way off as if he out head down everyone booing be like baseball yeah bring on the bullpen yeah why should you be new one in stinker off talking the white ball big news with Matthew M stepping down as England's white ball coach uh what do you make of that and who do you think is likely to replace him well I look I the you stepping down don't they quite often these days pretty sure he's been given the the heo unfortunately I think he's a bit unlucky you know he won a T20 World Cup England got to a semi-final this time so he's had two T20 World Cups with England one one and got to a semi-final in the other and then came up against India in Guyana on a pitch that was completely suited to India which is what you have to beat but uh they weren't quite good enough to do so um yeah I get the feeling that they're trying to work someone or find someone to work as a better combination with Josh Butler right it's clear that Butler and M together as a combo and that's the key combination you look at Ben and baz in the test team I mean that you couldn't get two people that work together any better and I think they're trying to find someone for Jos Marcus TR goic who Jos all know a lot from down at Summerset I I hope Marcus does well I I really do I and you know the one thing about the 100 that really pisses me off is that we created it in this country and we've only got one English coach yeah and that person is Freddy flintoff who's not gone through the system he's just come from knowing he's like a he's a motivational coach isn't he motivational kind of management figure and he's done he's done a really good job but you kind of go away we've got eight teams and we've got all these I'm all Steven Fleming fantastic Tom Moody I love them to bits they're brilliant at what they do but surely we've missed an opportunity of giving three or four of our own the chance to go and run a franchise in the UK and um maybe if they' have done that would' have been in a better position to all of us start talking about that coach or that coach to come and do the whiteb team whereas at the minute we're get a interim Marcus hope he does well but they'll they'll scour the net for the lights you I've heard Kumar sangakara Ricky ponon ruled himself out heard R dravid um I'd love us all to be in a position to you know what we've got XY Z and got five or six English options that could easily do as equally as decent job yeah I think they were just the whiteb team was just lacking a little bit of spark wasn't it you know what I mean it was sort of trundling along and they you know we' got a fantastic a bit of transition that team it had come out of an era of dominance absolutely and there wasn't that sort of like right this is the this is where we're now going to go and this is a New Journey and a new adventure you know what I mean you know we' got the players we got the youngsters let's all buy into this new kind of thing it was just a little bit sort of yeah just trundled along you know I mean bit of an upward sort of PA got the semifinals but it just wasn't that sort of you know I think they're looking for another basma Cullum a little bit come go bang but they if you look at that so you go Phil salt Ben Ducket will Jack some players there I tell you you know obviously Jos Butler carries on then you've got like to Ben Ducket you know there's F then you go Jacob bethl yeah you know Jamie Smith yeah you're looking at some that's just the batting Harry Brook yeah you know Harry Harry Brook I mean England aren't short of world class performers so in terms of the strikers in the batting Department you know I think they're going to be absolutely fine they've just got to try and find a bowling unit a bowling attack there's a little bit of you know minin Al's probably come towards the end of his uh International career ad rashid's bowling great but how much longer Can ad who's going to be ad's replacement if he goes to the way oh you know Ryan amid is not playing for the Braves not played a great deal of cricket this year so they they've got to find one or two tricks in that Department because fundamentally and I always say this batters will win you a game but Bowlers win you tournaments you know so England have to find a real quality Bowl in attack they're going to go to Sri Lanka and India in 25 something 25 next year looking at for the T20 World Cup uh and then obviously they will come in South Africa I think they'll be fine in South Africa with the batting because all our batters will be able to play really well on those wickets it's it's batting in subcontinent conditions I guess that they're going to have to try and improve a little saw you being interviewed the other day and you were told to sum up captaincy in three words what was it get good Bowlers yeah there go that easy I've never seen a good Captain without a good bowling attack so um yeah just but but focus on that you know really focus on on making sure that you're getting you know you you'll need a bit of pace but skill real skill and those those kind of Bowlers that can get you wickets you need you need Wicket taking uh Bowlers in in white ball Cricket particularly the shortest format you just need those those Bowers that can create a spark I mean you can't find a Jas bit BR no pretty much anywhere but if you can get two or three Ballers that the captain can throw the ball to and go come on create something you're going to be in a particularly with that batting lineup the batting lineup's got so much power yeah turning to Red Bull Cricket now we've got the Sri Lanka series starting Mike you talked um earlier on in our series uh about the fact that England would probably win all six tests uh we did we won all three tests against West Indies do you think we're going to repeat the trick against Sri Lanka well bear in mind the Sri Lankans have just lost to England Lions which was a an under team really ham sh was just mentioning he got 91 a young player 18 years of age from war Captain's England 19 brilliant player he's a wonderful Talent he just needs to get that opportunity to play for warshire so um look Sri Lanka when the ball moves around I think England will will be all over them but if it doesn't and it becomes quite flat I would think Sri Lanka will get a few runs it's just the bowling look so light I just can't see how they're going to stop this this kind of Juggernaut of an England batting line and that's even without Stokes and without just you can see some you know the boys coming in and just filling the shoes you know there's these days there's no sort of like oh you know bit nervous and everything the guys just come in there and just play the natural game that's Jordan Co he played in the final yesterday I probably potentially make his debut on Wednesday he's getting a chauffer up this morning and he was just saying yeah can't wait just play a bit of golf and then play a bit of cricket nice what not to like yeah absolutely it's going to be too strong for Sri lka yeah yeah they should win all three uh as you say Ben Stokes is injured olle po will be captaining um quite good for him to have the opportunity to do that to do some captaincy he hasn't done it in his first class career I don't think no I mean talk about off you go I mean it's going to be an absolute Cracker Jack for him I mean he'll be nervous won't he Mike you know what I mean but I mean what an honor and um you know you just you you you go through your your processes don't you he'll be thinking about things but as you say if you're if you're in a dominant position position and the team is looking to play well everyone kind of knows their roles you know he's going to be led by bz I'm sure stoky will be there as well in the dressing room you know what I mean I don't think it's going to be a huge deal for him just to go out there and just toss the corner it'll be practicing the toss you know what I mean in front of the mirror you want to get that right you don't want it just go and fall flat on the you know I mean imagine that won't be a good start but it's a nice it's a nice uh what's the feeling like when you get that it's great it's great you know he should just enjoy it you know Ben I'll be coming back it's actually quite a in a funny way if there was ever a time to get injured for Ben Stokes now as a time just to see how the team cope without him that's my point he's sort of such a Talisman that in a way it's sort of it's quite good for England to have the opportunity it's not cold turkey as you say he'll be around he'll he scrap of paper with all the fielded positions on it you know what I mean like three slips it always makes me laugh when him there's always never Captain before I so wait a minute he's been playing for England for 50 OD test yeah you you seen enough Cricket all these England captains we all come from not captaining the C how do you Captain your C when you're playing for England it's just doesn't happen um the surprise for me was actually Dan Lawrence opening the batting yeah I don't quite you I'm not too I mean I when you're in a position of power you can do whatever you want your roles is to pick the team yeah and England clearly from this um choice in particular with Dan Lawrence he's opened a few times but he's not an opening batter and it's really you talked about Sri Lankan uh struggling when the blls move well the history of test Cricket generally tells you that you know look at Steve Smith a great he's gone to open Frost it's not really been a success it's not a longterm pick is it it's not but I I I I think Lawrence is a five or six who's very dangerous when the ball's a bit softer and a bit older and the ball Bowlers are a bit tired this selection absolutely proves to me now that this team go purely on people's personalities as much as game yeah because Keat and Jenny for me should be opening the bat on Wednesday he's doing great for Lancashire when he played for England just a few years ago the ball was doing all sorts he kept on sneaking off to Quality Indian Bowlers played well overseas he's a really good player of spin I think he's a better player now but he's he's probably more he's a little bit more serious than some and he's probably he probably focuses a lot more on Cricket than others and I just think this England uh kind of mechanism they like players that are a little bit more free spirited they really do they they they they believe that uh if you're just thinking about Cricket all the time and you're quite serious it can drain you and it can you know I look back at my career and I sometimes oh I wish I could have had that switch off button a little bit more so maybe it lasted a bit longer but probably not with my dodgy knees but I do think this selection is not that we've we've not thought about this in the past it absolutely guarantees to me that you have to be a certain type of personality to get into this England team he could he could go out there and smash 100 you know what I mean but then can you see that happening if someone gets injured for the ashes are you going to put down Lawrence you know the that's that's that's my point realistically when you're picking a play you've got to go okay then Zach's injured for the Indian series next year can you see Dan Lawrence walking out saying Center please to jff rck buom with the new Cherry I'm flicking him over mid I can't see that can you see him at it's per the first test match in the ashes taking guard to Mitchell Starks and by putting him in this position that's what they must be thinking yeah they must be thinking that but I I can't in at the minute against Sri Lanka I think you have they get it right more often than not you know debatable that's that's Deb that is Deb heartley who's the other well it's debatable they lost 41 in India yeah and we've question marks over the openers especially haven't we that's all I'm saying that do you do you you know Ben Ducket gets injured next summer or that good can happen oh absolutely can you envisage Dan Lawrence strolling out to bat against Shamy bura cuming Stark I can't I just think and also from him I think having said that 18 months ago well two years ago we would have struggled to see Ben Ducket walking out against he's always open you see sure he's an opening battle that he's done it all his life you know Dan's not done that he's talented and he's got a he's he's a Dasher it'll be fun yeah and I guess if you were ever going to start opening the bat and again not disrespecting the shanken attack uh this is the attack that you choose to do so so I think you can a success against Sri Lanka but in the back of my mind I'm thinking bu rashami coming start is Dan Lawrence going to be doing that and I would personally had preferred to them go for a more sensible chap Jia could be the next Jia well well they'll say I'm being bored AUST I'm just saying look Keon Jen I believe kon's earned the right to to get that opening birth because an opening spot became available I think Keaton deserved that fair enough before we wrap up I've got to ask you as usual what has stumped you recently Phil should I start with you what's stump you well I'm I'm sort of all a little bit of a quandry should break dancing be us being the Olympics and should it even be a sport after I sat down there and watched rayun who was taken yes the the the kangaroo move got Australian comp they're all doing it in Chicago now or wherever it was originated I don't know but um yeah I'm not sure I I mean it made me laugh but uh that stumped me you know break dancing and Ray Gun what the hell was going on and you know and you know she select she was part of the selection committee I've heard that I've heard that SED yeah she got rid of all the good on and stuck herself in I thought it was excellent I think I think it was probably the highlight of the Olympics for yeah it was amusing I like whether it was sport is another question I like the fact that great dancing has made Olympics before Cricket yes I think it's been outed now though isn't it I think they said that we've had enough of that the strong suggestion is it might not make a reappearance in four years side yeah I tell you what stumped me and I loved it is uh Zara lson walking through the long room singing yeah for never got to see that again are we it was absolutely fantastic yeah is that is that what St you yeah the egg and bacon Brigade W well it was casual though so you could actually go into the uh the Pavilion in in shorts t-shirt and casual attire which was great to see but uh yeah to see see a live performance coming through the long room and down the steps for the first time it kind of stumped me but I liked it brilliant I think a few liked it thanks chaps and if you think you can solve what has stumped tougher and VY this week or you've got any other Cricket related questions or thoughts to throw our way then please do get in touch via email Cricket Club telegraph.co.uk or onx formerly known as Twitter ell Cricket until next week goodbye