Letting Go of Self-Sufficiency with Demi-Leigh Tebow

today on the podcast I'm so excited to have Demi Leebo joining me for an onair counseling session Demi I am so grateful to have you hey debborah thank you for having me I am so excited to be here I know before we start recording I told you that my stepmom is a a neuros psychologist she's got her like PhD in neuropsychology she's those be one of the smartest women I've ever had the honor of getting to know and and knowing um and so I love what you do and I know how her work has um been so meaningful and impactful in so many people's lives so just want to say thank you for what you do and thanks for having me no I love that you know I was gonna ask you what um gave you the courage to come on and do an onair counseling session because I think it does take a lot of Courage it's like talking through some things underneath the surface but I think you just answered that so well in that the example has been your stepmom and watching her work and Minister you know I was telling you a little while before we started recording in a way this is a Ministry you know helping people heal and pointing them to the Healer so it is just such an honor to to be here with you and to dig into your story a little bit before we dive into your story um why don't you just take a minute to introduce yourself for people who might be listening and they don't know who you are or what you're all about just tell us a little a little bit about who you are and where you're at in this season of Life yeah well hey everyone I am dami Dam Leo and if you hear the mess up accent I am from South Africa originally that's my home country and I've been in the in the US for nearly seven years at this point and I am so excited to finally be an author um my book releases in August and it's called a crown that lost so I am I'm the author of a crown that lost and I am so happy to be here it's so exciting a first book is such a big deal um okay but we didn't hear anything about why are you writing a book who are you um what what have the last few years held for you and and tell me kind of what has launched you into a public platform yeah um Deborah I had the opportunity to be crown with South Africa in 2017 and that led to me being able to participate on an international stage and and compete for the title of of Miss Universe and to me that was such a I mean once in a lifetime opportunity it genuinely was because you are actually never allowed to compete a second time oh wow you have to be your country's representative and it's not like you can go back and win Miss South Africa again you know that would be weird so um it truly was a once in al- lifetime opportunity and I wanted to make the absolute best of that opportunity um I end up being crowned Miss univers 2017 and I moved to the United States that's where the organization was based out of back then wow and it was I mean coming from a small town with literally one traffic light and one traffic circle um to moving to New York City was uh qu quite the change um and really that's how I ended up in the United States um a couple months into my reign I met my my now husband and I decided to to stay here pretty permanently and and um you know Deborah the the really the thing that led me to writing this book is there's been so many moments in my life where I have attached my worth and my value to Temporary things but I think the the biggest part of my life that and and I think this is a mistake I might have made a couple times in my life um so writing this book is one for my readers but also I think as a reminder to myself to to know the mistakes that I've made and to try not make them again and um what this book is really based on is the night I handed my crown back I you know a time came where I had to take that beautiful crown off my head and literally give it back um I gave it back I walked off that stage I rushed to the airport to get back home to South Africa but I realized that I forgot something I forgot something on that stage and it was way more important than a crown made up of pearls and diamonds it was it was what I had rooted in that crown and that was my identity it was was my worth it was the thing that I thought made me valuable and honestly that left me spiraling into a very big um not fun waiting season that really just felt like a wasted season and um I elaborate all about that in a crown that loss um that's a little bit of I was that's amazing how I gained the community that I have now that I'm so thankful for and thankful for everyone that's walked this road with me up to now yeah it's beautiful and and I I truly get the sense that you are honoring the Lord with that and how how you're um ministering and pointing to him uh so I just thank you for your work there okay so sometimes we look on Instagram and we see Miss Universe and all of the labels that get placed on you over time and you know um there's a psychologist by the name of John Lock and he was one of the founding fathers of psychology and he coined this term called the tabula rasa Theory okay and according to him we're all born as a blank slate just blank there's nothing on it imagine a white board with nothing on it and as we go through life the things people say about us for good and for not so good yeah start to get put on that board as labels yeah and out of those labels we start to form our identity yeah and we live out of that identity until we get to a point where we meet the ultimate Giver of identity now John Lock doesn't say that part but in my opinion yeah until we meet Jesus and and and not just meet Jesus but learn to see our identity through the lens of Christ so thinking about the tabula rasa Theory um I want to go back to your earliest days as a little girl in South Africa with one traffic light in your town and I want you to kind of talk me through what do you think were some of those earliest labels that started to shape your beliefs about who you are whether for good or not so good that's a that's a great um great question really makes me have to like really dig dig deeper um I I think you're so right you know who we are is made up of a lot of our life circumstances right like you said series say and um but the but the problem that I found with that is putting my identity in my life circumstances just really stands me on a roller coaster of questions of insecurity of unanswered questions um and I'm not sure what you said John what his what his theory gets to but I have had to realize essentially that I need to find things to root find something someone to root my identity in that is bigger than myself that is fixed that is never changing and that is always trustworthy and now I didn't necessarily know those things um growing up I think you know trying to figure it out I think some of my earliest labels that I probably received was I was always like a a little leader in a way I always somehow found myself to be the CLA captain or in South Africa we call it the head girl that's the title we got and it from middle school all the way through high school I somehow eventually became the head girl became the head girl of my boarding school um you know was the team captain was you just always participated in as as much as I could and I think that put a lot of responsibility on me um I think people somehow because I ended up in those situations or with those titles those labels people look to me for for answers in a sense and I think I've always you know thought that I needed to have the answers and I think that might have led me to not necessarily seeking as much wisdom um as I could or should have um from a young age my parents grew up I my parents were divorced when I was really young um like a baby and they both got remarried when I was when I was young when I was three and then five and so I grew up with my stepparents and I'm I'm truly so lucky and so thankful to you know to say that I have two sets of parents um my both my stepparents have raised me like their own and loved me like their own and have had such a beautiful role in my life that I'm so thankful for I told you about my stepmom but my stepdad has also played a a really great role in my life um but because I grew up in two separate households I think um you know sometimes you might not necessarily hear conf conflicting opinions but I even think of like church right like I grew up in two different churches and I don't even think that I realized I grew up in two different denominations um until I was about 17 years old I think that caused some confusion unknowingly I don't think my parents subconsciously yeah absolutely yeah I grew up learning one thing in one church but maybe a different thing in another church just a different way of explaining it or different you know denomination can sometimes have different just ways of of communicating and um I think it actually left me so confused and I just never knew how confused I was until one day um a friend of ours I you know I grew up in the church I grew up as a Believer um and I thought that I had given my heart to Jesus when I was four five six years old according to my parents um but I remember one day a friend of ours um very tragically passed away when I was in 11th grade and our whole school gathered on the sports field to pray over his life and to pray over his family and and his loved ones and our youth pastor that you know ministered to our our school gave opportunity to surrender your life to Jesus Christ and I just realized in that moment that for the rest of my life I don't want to be confused I don't want to worry about where I spend eternity and I step forward even as the leader in the class even as the one that's supposed to have it all figured out pretty much in front of all of my peers I st forward and sit like me I don't want to doubt for another dance the best decision that I ever could have made how old were you I was 17 17 um so are you a firstborn child yes okay okay tell me I know you had a younger sister who's in heaven yes um tell me a little bit about her and that Dynamic especially with having two households yeah um like how did all of that work out tell me help me have a little bit of a a peek into that part of your life yeah ever since I could remember I just wanted to be a big sister and um you know it was like the biggest dream ever and I think I like buged my parents for a little for for forever my mom unfortunately couldn't have any more children she would have had a whole school if she could have um and my stepmom and my my dad ended up falling pregnant with my sister when I was 10 and she was born when I was about 11 so there was a decent age gap between us um and you know I just had all these dreams of playing dress up taking her shopping teaching her how to do her hair teaching her how to play field hockey and netball which is a sport that I grew up playing in South Africa and all these dreams of you know just thinking of like becoming a big sister and um when FR was 4 months old she got diagnosed with a brain dis Genesis that was three-fold and a part of that brain dis Genesis was that she um had sarabella a Genesis which means that she was born without the sarabellum um I'm sure you know all about this but for your for your listeners in short what that caused is the sarabellum controls and regulates your whole nerve and muscular system so anything that requires muscle usage she had no control of that means eating that means holding you know a mug that anything that had require that means swallowing anything that required muscle usage she had no control over um and we knew fr's life would be difficult from a young age her life expectancy was maybe four or five years old um and she lived to be 13 um until she eventually went to be with Jesus and a whole different beautiful story of how I got to spend her last birthday with her being me being based in the US at that time but maybe another conversation um so that's a little bit about fr's life I think growing up as an only child for a for a big period of My Life um those forming years when FR was born and especially when FR was diagnosed you know I saw my parents like literally sleeping in two different rooms just so that one can take care of her and the other one can get a few hours of sleep they worked both worked full-time jobs and my dad eventually left his corporate job of 17 years where he had a great role and great position to um uh embark on a um entrepreneurial Journey where he literally transformed our home into a guest house like a bed and breakfast so that he can take care of Fria while you know be working from home basically um that we were fortunate enough to afford having care for her um during the day so that my parents could work um but I mean it it's just it was a very taxing um role to be able to have F you required a lot of help and so with all that being said I think growing up I just really wanted to not make any trouble for my parents not um I think I was very reserved in a way where I didn't want them to worry about my small problems in right comparon to an's life um and just wanted to be able to help um even though I didn't always know how to help just being helpful by not making trouble I guess was kind of my strategy honestly that is so important what you just said because a lot of people don't realize that first of all when you're a firstborn child in and of itself you have a tendency to please you have a tendency to to be motivated to please your caregivers that's part of the nature of a firstborn child we I'm a firstborn as well I totally understand we tend to be more responsible we tend to be more attuned to our parents and what they need and what they're going through um so there's this natural tendency that comes with a firstborn but then you pair that with a second born who has some special needs and that natural tendency to think of others to keep the stress low to be responsible not to make any mistakes gets exaggerated even more because it's like there's not much room here not that anybody ever says there's no room right nobody would ever say that in fact I'm sure if we interviewed your parents during that season they would say Demi you are our priority whatever you need whatever you want like we're here for you but I think just the natural way that life goes as a firstborn you see there's stress there's a lot of financial struggle there's emotional struggle there's physical struggle so I'm going to keep myself I'm gonna take care of myself I'm not going to rock the boat I'm going to succeed and do well and not get into any trouble so here's a personal question for you de when it comes to you having needs and being able to express them here's what I need here's what's going on in me has that come easy for you or has that been a little bit of a challenge I think the fact that I had a clinical psychologist as a step mom has helped to be able to ask for those things I don't think it necessarily comes super naturally but I think I've learned to identify that I need help and that I actually need to ask for it I think you know something that my husband tells me or you know very often as he or he reminds me is like hey I don't know what you need and you need to tell me so that I can help you if you don't express that to me you know I there's nothing that I can do to help other than anticipate a potential need that you might have right and so I think I've I've very much resorted to being like I've got this I'm going to figure this out I'm not going to burden anyone um and if I really can't figure it out well you know then maybe I'll resort to asking for help um so I think the fact that I've had a stepmom that has that has given me a lot of awesome just tools and skills to apply into my life you know I don't necessarily know we ever had a counseling session but growing up with a CL just as a as a mom figure in your life um definitely was super helpful in ways that I probably never even knew um and honestly a lot I feel like a lot that I discovered writing writing my book my the chapter about my sister was the first chapter that I wrote even though it's chapter three I like zigzagged writing my book and Deborah it was a really hard chapter to write because BR passed away I was based in the US I knew she was not doing good she was in hospital for a few days and I missed the last flight to South Africa and I didn't get to say goodbye to her and oh it still makes me joke up that was you know that was really hard well um that was really hard and I think I just resorted to getting on the flight being there for my parents you know getting to South Africa helping plan the funeral getting back doing what I need to do back here and it wasn't until I actually started writing this book where I genuinely started working through a lot of those emotions and feelings and um just actually really dealing with it because I started writing this chapter and I realized man like I have the story I have this experience but I actually don't know what I've learned from it yet because I haven't fully processed a lot of this and so it was by far the hardest chapter that I wrote in my book because I was is faced with actually dealing with the emotions in order to write an honest chapter in my book I mean I think that speaks to so many people when your natural tendency and wiring is to care for others to to take care of others to be in tune to their needs like you said your goal is like I need to get there how can I be there for everybody how can I help what does everybody else need and then your needs kind of sit on the back burner they lag behind until you stop yeah and then all of a sudden they catch up to you like oh we're still here there's still grief there's still things to process it you know for you your own experience and your loss and your how you're going to process it and the story that you're going to tell yourself and the narrative surrounding that experience for you and how God is going to fill in the gaps of grief what is that look like for you personally but I think you're right you know sometimes when we're so attuned to the needs of others it can be easy for our needs to kind of be minimized um or forgotten altogether and I'm so grateful that the lord gave you an opportunity to like sit down Demi yeah and focus and and bring some of that up to the surface for him to heal I think that's a really beautiful experience and I also wonder if your salvation moment was so special because it was also the moment of you identifying laying down that self-sufficiency yeah that you've been wired to have for so long like I'm self-sufficient I'm a leader I I I'm here for you you know and all of a sudden you're laying that down and you're allowing God to say I'm here for you yeah and that's a really beautiful moment yeah that I I love that I think that's so true um I think for a long time in my life I relied on a lot of self-confidence and having confidence in my abilities in my accolades in my you know achievements and um I learned that confidence really just means to have full trust and I think that's why when I let myself down it knocked my self-confidence so drastically because I had full trust in myself and and my abilities even being a Believer my whole life grow having grown up um you know as a Christian um I think there was a part of me up until that salvation moment when I was 17 where I let me get my train of train of thought here where I I knew about God I knew the Bible I knew scripture but I didn't necessarily have that personal relationship in a in a big way where I I truly believed that me saying my nightly prayers isn't just a nightly prayer but it is me speaking to my Creator and the Bible tells us that he hears us he listens to us and he thinks about us all the time um and it's one thing knowing that I look at a lot of Bible stor and I'll sometimes feel like oh that's a Bible story but I constantly have to remind myself that no that's a Bible reality that is something that actually happened that's a example to me that can help me through whatever I'm living through um so yeah I think you're you're so right when it comes to a little bit of self-sufficiency yeah and honestly what it comes down to is the the greater our needs MH the greater our need for him yeah and I think it's hard to see that when we are people who are wired to meet our own needs it's like I can meet my own needs I'm self-sufficient I'm self-confident not only that but other people come to me for their needs yeah and we have this high capacity but then we have low needs and the lower our needs the lower our need for a savior yeah the lower our need for a God who holds it all together and it's almost like God was slowly exposing to you your need yeah so that he could be the one that you need ultimately yeah um and and it seems like that's been a journey like one layer at a time for you to to open your heart to your needs and allow him to to to to be the one that meets those needs ultimately I'd love to hear how that played out um through competition you know like you the healthy version is Lord I need you the unhealthy version is I can do this on my own how does all of that play out now that you're saved you know Jesus um you still have a tendency to probably put your needs on the back burner self-confidence self-reliance and now you're entering the world of competition tell me a little bit about what that was like emotionally for you I there I remember the night that I that I was crowned Miss Universe um they like announce you know the top five and then it goes down from like second runner up and then the I guess like the first runner up and then the winner kind of holds hands and they stand in the middle stage and you're like standing there holding hands waiting for the winner to be announced and knowing it's going to be one or the other and I remember I I love like every year when the AR comes up they'll like have videos on social media and I'll I'll remember seeing that that winning moment and I just remember before Steve hary announced South Africa I just I still feel my cheeks like hurting because I was just I couldn't stop smiling like I just I genuinely I couldn't close my mouth like I just couldn't stop smiling my jaws were hurting my eyes were just so like hurting from smiling and I think the reason I was so joyful was not because I knew that I was going to win in that moment I there was no way for me to know that but I think the reason I was able to be so not happy but joyful was because I I actually genuinely felt content with whatever the results would be I felt like I prepared as much as I could have prepared I did everything in my capabilities to be there to get to that position and that if this was what the Lord had planned for my life um then he it wouldn't it wouldn't miss me if that was in his will that that wouldn't miss me and you know proverb 69 tells us like in their hearts humans plan their course but the Lord establishes their steps and I it was a verse that I really hold held on to in that moment and listen I I can't tell you that I would have been excited to lose nobody prepares you know for a once in A- lifetime opportunity and is going to be excited to lose definitely not of course that would have been hurtful that would have been that would have just not been great in any way but I knew that if I don't win I was going to be okay because he had a plan regardless and um even though that was seven years six years ago at this point I genuinely knew and believed that in that moment um and I think that's the reason I felt like I would have been okay um you know I might have cried for a little bit but I would have been okay if I didn't win that now I think going past that year I think that year was just so crazy Deborah we were on like I don't even know the exact number but I know it was like over 20 International trips in one and it's not just like to Canada or Mexico and back like no it was like across the world and back still feel jet from it you just you know I woke up every day the doorman greeted me as Miss Universe my bag got tagged as Miss Universe my introduction read you know Miss Universe the little label on the you know when you do like a TV interview they put like the label outside the and that was like Miss Universe it wasn't like Demi it was Miss Universe and I think I just the competition was one thing I felt like that I was in a really good place but that year I became Miss Universe that was a a label that I was given and quite frankly I liked wearing that label and the night I gave back that Crown was that label just ripped off and there was a lot of sticky residue that was left um you know it just felt like the rug rib from underneath my feet moment and I was totally unprepared and my whole life I'd been preparing for the next moment for the next thing for the head girl in high school to what the degree I'm going to get to then competing with South Africa The Next Step was always planned and that was a moment where I just genuinely like I don't even know how to find my my like um backstage room you know my green room um my whole team of people that had surrounded me that whole year people of everything from a manager to a social media manager to a stylist to security to everyone had just flocked to their next their next purpose their next goal and it was I didn't even have anyone like escorting me off of the stage no ill intent of course like it was just the way it was right that's that's a lot to process so so how did you process it like what was that like emotionally um I I think I resorted to just looking for The Superficial next big thing um you know a lot of um Miss Universe is usually going to either acting or um becoming models or and thought that was what I was supposed to do um I moved back to New York and I signed with a big agency and it was me just searching for the next big thing that I thought would make me feel valuable and worthy and the truth is I wasn't able to find that next thing um there were opportunities that came across my way that you know would have probably given me the chance to um really set me up for success in let's say the modeling industry and they just still felt empty and they felt um like it still wasn't enough and I knew that I was searching for something bigger um although I had Jesus in my heart although I knew him although I had a personal relationship with him I think maybe that was a time where I didn't fully surrender and I was trying to rely on my self-confidence you know what it is I me as I'm hearing you talk you know back to the the labels that we carry I think often times as Christians we believe that the most dangerous labels are negative ones we look at our board and we see things like not good enough or not pretty or liar or shame or all of these other things victim we look at those labels and we think those are bad those are wrong those do not align with Christ we need to deal with those labels yeah but we don't see the danger in the positive labels yeah the positive labels that the world gives us yeah this universe New York Times bestseller National speaker beautiful you know all of these things that are are good of themselves but not on that board yeah the second we start putting them on that board they become just as dangerous as the negative labels and I don't think our as Christians were're attuned to that it's like oh I just want to get rid of all the negative identity yeah but the positive identity yeah when it's not rooted in Christ yeah is just as weighty it's just as dangerous you know I think about something a Pastor said this past week about why does the bi why does the bible say that you know it is harder for a rich man to get to heaven than the camel to get through the eye of a needle it's because the rich man has a lot to hold on to here in this world and when you have so much to hold on to here heaven isn't as enticing right it's like I have a lot to hold on to here it's weighing me down yeah and I think the same go with this world and our accolades our success our our our endeavors when Paul says I don't look back anymore I forget what is behind he's not talking about his trauma history yeah he's not talking about forgetting I'm not going to look back anymore what he's talking about is his accolades his successes his rewards because he he recognized how dangerous those things were to be on his board yeah and I think sometimes we miss that in the church you know what I mean that's so true it's such a good perspective I love that like I said that was a you know that was a label I liked wearing like I I liked wearing that label that was a comfortable label to have that was a good label to have that was a successful label to have um and I think you're so right it's you know it's the wor that I attached to that good label that's not bad something I didn't have to deal with because it wasn't a bad thing it wasn't a negative thing um so I I totally think that's such a good point it's like both labels whether good or bad are burdensome that's fair and and we don't realize that and we live with this burden you know I put myself in a similar category as you Dem me because I'm a firstborn child an overachiever do things well I always felt special growing up and it's like if we're not careful those things can also become the burden that keeps us attached to this world and and I believe that the the more we let go of those things the more God blesses us because he's like I can trust you you're not attached to the burdens of this world whether good or bad and it's so freeing because you can lay down your crown MH and still believe yeah that you're worthy and that's the journey that you've been on it's it's beautiful because again it's like people want to hear counseling and they're like okay tell me all your all your bad stuff but it sometimes the good stuff can be just as burdensome and just as dangerous and that's why Jesus was so aware that the the negative can be just as burdensome and when he told told the rich ruler go sell everything you've got like let's see how you're doing in this area what you're holding on to and I find this conversation even challenging for me as far as like what is it that we allow to be put on our tabula rasa is it the words of Jesus alone or do I add things to it you know because they feel pretty good they feel good I like having it on there but then the moment they're taken away we we question we doubt we we struggle and I think that's beautiful the other thing that comes to mind for me too is um your relationship with your sister yeah and how in one sense I bet you there was a little bit of a label you know big sister yeah caregiver um and and and even there the Lord had to be enough had to kind of replace that identity with himself yeah what has that Journey been like for you I think um like you said earlier we kind of put our own needs aside in a moment like that and I don't think it fully my sister's de like I don't think I fully got to deal with it until um I remember like a very Vivid moment literally sitting right here in this office I'm speaking to you from um on her first Heaven anniversary and it was somehow like that day just like really wrecked me and I don't think that I you know I'd been so focused on planning a wedding and restarting a career and um you know moving back moving to the United States and really making this home and um you know starting a life together with my husband that it did just didn't necessarily hit me um until until her first first Heaven anniversary um and that was just S I couldn't I didn't understand why it was so crazy emotional why I was such a wreck it's been a year already um but I was and I think that's where I started like having to really just work through losing her and you know I think it's not just losing her Deborah but it was actually also coming to grips with um how she was made I had so many questions you know as a when she was born I was 11 years old and as a teenager trying to make sense of my own faith um but also having all these questions for God on like why why did you allow this why is fr made like this what is the purpose with her life where how why I don't understand and my dad and I are very very close and my I actually write about this all about this in my book too but my dad pretty much got to the point of nearly turning away from his faith completely because of my sister's life and just how difficult that was to see every day it was hard there was a time in her life where she had something like 42 seizures in a 24-hour period like it was just really hard to watch and not being able to do anything to help her was awful um and seeing my dad feeling that way affected me drastically he him and my sit mom went on a trip to is and he told her that he would go with her but just so that she doesn't have to go alone but he doesn't want to go to any of the sites he's going to wait on the bus he doesn't want anything to do with this Israel trip she can go and he's just there so that she's not by herself well um the Lord is so so kind because my dad is a very visual person and also very practical person like me and it the Lord used that trip to show his goodness to my dad and his greatness to my dad by making himself tangible by seeing the empty tomb you know by swimming in the Dead Sea by you know like it made it tangible for my dad and I just think it's just so he's so kind in the way that he loves us um I kind of went on a tangent now but um I oh that's beautiful you know we were talking about how you know even in frenia going to heaven like that label was shifted for you you know and you were saying it it it was about a year into it that you finally felt like it all the emotions came up to the surface you know that makes a lot of sense oftentimes trauma hits us later yeah but specifically when you are the type of person who is very other centered M because what happens is during a trauma your focus is everybody else so you're kind of in survival mode we just have to survive this situation get through it who needs help it's like survival it's just like when a soldier goes off to war and they're on the battlefield yeah they're not dealing with their trauma right that moment they're surviving yeah but then later on when life is safe and secure and it's quiet PTSD hits later yeah after the battlefield and so for you you were kind of in a a season a year later and all of the the Lord started bringing that stuff to your attention saying it's time to deal with this now D yeah and debah I think something that I learned from that was I asked why so many times and de I had I came to the terms and to GBS that I am never going to have answers to some of those questions until I get to meet my maker one day um and I knew that I can I have a I had a choice to make um this was a couple years after my sister past I had a choice to make I could choose to question God for the rest of my life or I could choose to trust him and I realized that if I was going to choose to truly trust him with fr's life with her Purpose with the purpose that her her life had that I was going to have to stop asking the why questions and rather ask the where questions like Lord show me where you are in this show me where you know you can use me in this show me you know just where because I feel like when you ask why you're questioning but if you ask where you're seeking and um and I think that's been something I mean it's not like all my questions are answered it's not like I don't have questions still I just have tried not honing in on them and relying on somehow finding an answer somewhere FR was actually the reason my husband and I met um is to bring this story full circle but um with her her for of special needs and disabilities that she was born with um the Tima Foundation has one of their initiatives that they that they work on for children with special needs and disabilities it's called night to shine and it is a worldwide celebration for people with special needs and disabilities just like my sister FR and to make a long story short my little sister was invited to night to shine because we have them in South Africa as well I think they're in 56 countries up to date which is awesome it's our favorite night of the year now together um but that's how we met and I I look at the the purpose that we have in our marriage and the purpose that we have together Tim and I don't NE have a lot in common from off the bat when we first met you know but you can learn how to play golf together you can learn how to play together right but it's harder to learn how to have purpose together right and that's something that I'm so thankful for and I I truly believe that that's just a small tiny glimpse into the purpose fr's life had I I love that and it's so true do I question for the rest of my life or do I trust and that's not to say we don't have questions that we can bring to him and needs um but ultimately now we see dimly and one day we will see clearly and do I really believe that I will see clearly and what I see now isn't full reality yeah that's right I love that's what you're holding on to yep um you know I think the theme of our conversation today that we can hold on to even as listeners as you and I the greater the need the greater our need for him and we can Marvel in our needs and and and and be grateful when they come up because it's like I can't be self-sufficient I need you Lord I need you Lord and I think that's a really beautiful lesson um like like your book says a crown that lasts you know to be able to lay down even the good labels yep that were given here in this world for the greatest label of all Jesus Christ and and and for us to stay grounded there no matter what comes negative or positive we won't be swayed yeah when he is the ultimate label and I just I find myself so challenged by by that even though I'm the counselor here it's it's such a beautiful lesson for us to remember to to to let go to throw off the burdens and everything that hinders including the good that comes our way and just holding on to Jesus and I thank you Demi for modeling that I know this conversation is going to challenge a lot of people because sometimes we base our relationship with him on all we've done yeah not just him and and all he's done for us and and I think it's a a a much needed reminder for many people um as we're kind of living this life and growing our relationship with Jesus so thank you so much for sharing your heart and your journey and letting us peek behind the curtains a little bit into your story um can you just tell us where can people connect with you when does your book come out and what's the best way to just stay connected with you yeah thank you so much debah I have loved even just learning from you today you know I truly believe that there um is is so much wisdom in seeking wise counsel and um putting people around you that love you care for you and have your best interests at heart and so thank you once again for all the work that you do and how you impact people's lives I'm truly grateful for you so thank you for that thank you for this podcast and allowing people to maybe even have a little virtual counseling session and and have a sounding board in you so appreciate that um my book will be on shelves 13th August um so August there's audible versions there's all the versions um that that you could need I am so excited to finally join you ma'am in the author Club too so so exciting it's so it's been such a fun process and yeah anywhere social media B me TBO I'll be there so so you guys are you can relate to anything that we talked about today and just the idea that sometimes we forget to deal with the Positive labels that have been given to us by this world but what does it look like for us to lay down those burdens as well and just hold on to Jesus and so um I thank you Demi for joining me I encourage you guys to grab a copy of her book and get to know her follow her on social media she's such a bright light in this world and um pray for her and her family and we just thank you Demi for joining us today thank you so much zebra I appreciate you bye everyone