Knife Comparison: McNees Mac 2 3.5 vs Les George VECP

Intro what's going on y'all chuck nunn face here and today i wanted to go over a couple of knives that have come to me recently here um the ones that i've got here on the table i've got the mini the mcneese knives um pm mac 2 3.5 it's kind of a mouthful right there and i also have the les george uh v sip or v uh ecp all right so these are both mid-tech knives now you know let's kind of talk about what what is midtech um the the term was coined by ken onion years back and it's really kind of taken on a life of its own and you know frankly you know it's got so many different meanings now what is midtech what isn't what's custom what the the lines between mid-tech custom and production have kind of become blurred over the years but you know essentially we're looking at you know generally custom makers that have some parts outsourced be it uh in the u.s or from a foreign country and they finish they do some things in-house and they finish uh assembly in-house oftentimes sharpen in-house things like that fit and finish is all done in-house so it kind of varies as to what um would actually constitute a mid-tech but in any case i don't want to get too in the weeds on that essentially what we've got here is two mid-tech knives um and so these are fairly prominent makers les george of course has been making customs for years as well as john mcneese unless george has worked with several different companies um as far as you know having some of his his customs done in production models from zt and spartan and you know just to name a couple right there and mcneese has partnered up with pro tech you know to get it just very recently it's just the blade show 2022 they announced um the uh the auto mac um and so we're essentially what we've got here is we've got a couple of of american knife makers um and these are their production versions of their custom knives and so i kind of wanted to do this video because there's some similarities among these knives even though at first blush they really don't look all that alike but i couldn't help but draw a lot of uh a lot of similar lines between these two knives as i was kind of using them and carrying them and everything else now the mac 2 i've had for a few weeks now and this one is fairly uh just came in just cut just a couple days ago um the vsep so we'll kind of break it down um on some of the the similarities differences and we'll even do it in a different format something that i've never done before we're going to call it the mid tech showdown all right and so i've broken it down into some categories here where we've got the mcneese on one end and the less george on the other and i'm going to try to kind of decide in my own opinion this is all subjective and this is just anecdotal in my own personal opinions on you know how i'm scoring these two different knives and so the categories will be overall size steel action construction fit and finish grind presentation utility cost and what is done in house and so kind of looking at things first looking at size of these two knives they both have 3.5 inch blades now i'm going to move that out of the way get our little scorecard out of the way here one of the things that i noticed right off the bat from the mcneese was how efficient it was in its use of size so as you can see here they both have the same size blade they both have 3.5 inch blades but how compact and how efficient john mcneese has designed the mach 2 and really the you know the mac two the three inch and the three point five inch where there's really no wasted space now i'm not a big proponent excuse me i gotta get a little sip of drink here i'm not a huge proponent of blade to handle ratios or anything like that it really doesn't matter to me um and it would never be a deciding factor in a knife um in all likelihood if i was going to be you know kind of choosing between two different designs but it struck me from day one when i held one of these in hand uh i did do a video a review on the uh a loaner that i had of the mac 2 a couple of months back it was one of the things that really kind of struck me is how efficient it was in its use of size so essentially you've got a 3.5 inch blade and just a hair over a 3.5 inch handle on this one you've got a 3.5 inch blade and you've got over a four inch handle on this one about four and a half well four and a quarter inches and so it's just really impressive on the use of size on that so that really just kind of struck me with the map too now i'm not saying one is better than the other but if i'm gonna take somewhat of an objective look at it i would say that it's a use and it's a size efficiency i'd have to give that one to the mac too Steel now steel the less george cts xhp the mac 2 is this particular one is in magna cut now there's been a lot of different varieties of this one the one i had on loan was xhp also um there's been 20 cv there's probably been some other steels down the line that john's used as well um i really wouldn't have minded i know magna cut is you know kind of the the the hot new girl at school that everybody's checking out but i mean really it's it's not one that i was actively seeking um but you know this is what was available and so i ended up picking it up in magna cut xhp if you've watched the channel before you know i'm a huge fan of xhp this and s90v are my two favorite stainlesses um and so xhp has been around for a while love the way it sharpens love the way it performs takes an awesome polish so i definitely like some xhp now looking at it from a scoring standpoint you know it's a tough call all right xhp has been around for a long time it's proven i've used it a whole bunch now on paper magna cut it's got all the things that you would want it's got good edge retention good toughness good corrosion resistance um but it's largely unproven you're starting to see it coming to the market a lot more and a lot of different knives and everybody's talking about it and it will probably end up being you know the new s35vn the new m390 it's going to kind of replace those steels i think moving forward um you know the knife community needs a new steel to have as a as a favorite in in its production folders um every five years or so so it's looks like it's magna cuts turn s45 came out at a weird time it looked like that was going to be the one that replaced uh s35 but it looks like magna cut's probably going to be the one that replaces both s35 and m390 and it's just going to be you know the edc knife steel of choice now i don't think we're at a point where it's going to be heat treated for quite some time he treated properly and and you know where the protocols are going to be followed they're going to be maximizing magna cut i think it's going to be ubiquitous and it's going to be in a lot of different folders but i don't think we're going to see a lot of um a lot of companies uh heat treating it and crying it properly and everything else now this i did talk to john it has been treated to 63 hrc i don't know what les does his uh xhp to um so when we're looking at steel you know i initially i thought this was going to be a push because it's kind of a matter of opinion but i am going to go ahead and give it to les george with um the xhp reason being it's the proven steel it's one of my favorites so yeah i'm letting my bias come in on it a little bit now you know your virgin collectors will probably say magna cut is is is the best thing out there and it's uh i'm crazy for thinking the way i do but you know the chad users are going to agree with me when i say uh xhp so that is put to bed in my opinion um Action action two different styles two different presentation styles we've got bearings on this guy and it does have a really good bearing action i did need to adjust the pivot a little bit it's funny because the one that i had on loan i didn't want to fiddle with it too much because it wasn't mine um but uh i would have i would have adjusted the lock bar a little tighter on that one turns out i needed to adjust the lock bar the other way on this one because the detent was a little bit firm um and then i just kind of tighten the pivot down a little bit and i think it's perfect as far as a um an action goes for a bearing knife um now this one now here i am flubbing it on camera but this one is on washers this hasn't really broken in yet um the pivot is a little tight it's a little tight on purpose um and that's simply because you know we wanted to kind of get it dialed in and everything else so it's a little bit different but i do love a nice washer action now this one is not gonna drop shut by any stretch it may do that down the road when things kind of mate together and break in a little bit you know it's not gonna be like a nicely done bearing knife right out of the box where or at least after a little fine tuning it just kind of drops shut the way you like it too so this one will likely never be like that it will get better with time and use but um as of right now it is a pretty stiff washer action but it is snapping its presentation and i like that so generally speaking i do prefer washers over bearings but i'm going to kind of put my personal bias aside a little bit on this one and i will say this is going to appeal to more people the um the bearing action on the mcneese it's got my drop shot um it does fly right open the d10 is nicely tuned now granted i had to fiddle with it a little bit to get it the way i wanted to but uh i haven't really had any reason to complain about the action on this one so i'm going to go ahead and give that to the mac 2. um let's see construction we've got full tie line scales no liners it's all going to be um float through construction it's got two um got two barrel spacers on both sides i don't believe they are shouldered on either one interestingly enough they just use screws on one side on both models as well okay so ti um spring clips uh dual thumb studs on both models got some jimping on both models i mean really construction overall i mean it's a pickup you really can't decide which one's going to be better constructed uh i mean really when it comes to build quality i think this one is an even push we don't even really have to talk about it that much it's going to be a tie on that one there's no you know it's a pick them on this they're both very well made uh very high quality uh both makers are obviously proud of the things that they do and so i wouldn't worry about that in either case um fit and finish now as you can see um kind of going along with the construction they are both finished very well too um this one is obviously it's got some anode done to it but they're both in a stonewash on the surface they're both good now interestingly enough they both came from their respective makers with flaws uh in the case of the mcneese it has not been corrected and what we're looking at right here is it's going to be a little tough to show i'll do my best to show it it's kind of a nitpick it's not a super big deal but these two screws right here they're not completely flush with this scale there's little protrusions right there i actually showed it to uh jonathan mcneese and he was like oh man we missed that um that's supposed to be flush you know sorry about that it's not a big deal this is certainly not a deal breaker for me um definitely not a deal breaker for me uh but it is something to note that you know it wasn't listen everybody's human but it didn't come back from out of the shop perfect um and it wasn't up to their spec either and john even admitted that so it is what it is it's something that i can fix um i don't know if i ever will i certainly won't send it in to have it done but it's something that's not going to be difficult to fix should i choose to do it i mean you could do it with sandpaper you could take a dremel to it i mean whatever you wanted to do obviously you take your screws out first and then just kind of grind them down a little bit or sand them down because it's really not much but you can notice it i may do nothing about it at all so you know not that big a deal this knife it actually came from uh the factory kind of offsetter now it is it is fine now it's a little annoying though when you get a knife um and it comes in you're checking it out and everything else and it's kind of like a big old warrant or when it's when it's wonky and offsetter now what i did was i went ahead and i took it apart and i cleaned it because oftentimes knives it could be you know what's called factory dirty and you go ahead and you clean it off a little bit and you go ahead and kind of get it dialed in and i i reassembled it tightened the pivot just a little bit more and got it all taken care of so it's good to go now it's not it's not an issue anymore but as you can see you know that might be also contributing to you know the action being a little bit stiffer and not being you know super uh you've got to be pretty deliberate with your flipper or with your uh your opening action right there you got to be pretty deliberate with it um and so a couple of things right off the bat um coming from the respective shops where you know there was there was some flaws coming from the shops overall though i mean other than those two little things the quality's there you know the fit and finish is there it was just a couple of things that were kind of kind of goose eggs or kind of just warts on the on the overall presentation but generally speaking not a problem i'm going to go ahead and get fit and finish both high quality both came with some flaws but not that big a deal we're gonna go ahead and call that a push um Grind moving on looking at the grinds um both ground very well um you know they're both flat grinds uh you know this one obviously has that dramatic you know from your from your uh your thumb rest right there with your jimping and then it's got more of a ledge a dramatic ledge and a drop off to the spear point this one of course is is straight down but also with a swedge both flat grinds as i said um i believe the mcneese would be a little bit thinner behind the edge um than the less george uh i don't have calipers but i believe he shoots for .10 so 10 000 behind the edge on these could be the case um and that you know it leads to a pretty small secondary bevel as well this one is certainly going to be a little more pointy everything else so their grind styles are different but the brines are both very well done they're nice and even that i i haven't noticed any inconsistencies on them they're both done very evenly the one thing i would say uh they're both done well but i don't love the way they sharpen the the mcneese to the factory it kind of leaves you with no tip or really there's there's a lot to be desired in the overall tip itself right there um now i've gone ahead and resharpened this um i brought it i didn't bring the edge bevel back maybe just a degree really didn't mess with it that much but the tip is just pretty much non-existent on these when you get them and it's funny because i was actually chatting with john again and um you know he's kind of stubborn in the sense that he he kind of wants to keep it a little thicker at the uh at the end uh for strength and everything else he doesn't want to kind of get that i don't know i guess dropped back and laid back tip but he says maybe i just need to change my mind because a lot of people have been saying that i guess um so if i had to give it to from a grinding perspective and a lot of this is just because of my own personal preferences i want to tip on my knives and this one really doesn't have a tip to speak of so in the final sharpening it needed to be sharpened in my book right away so i'm going to go ahead and give grind to the less george visit um presentation now when i'm talking about presentation i'm talking about not fit and finish but the way it's done so this one has milling and this one is you know anodized you know obviously they both come in just plain old you know stonewash versions and things like that and this one the only thing that makes it different is just the bronze uh undertone with the green anodization um you know so when it comes to that presentation they're both done very well this is definitely more of a dark stone wash while this is more of on the less george it's more of a mirror stone wash um it's kind of i don't love the stone wash on the scales but i like the stone wash on the blade more than i like the stone wash on the mcneese this is almost like a dark stone wash maybe even an acid wash so it's going to be much more personal preference but i'm going to go ahead and go and give presentation to the vsep as well moving on we've got utility both knives are going to be great edc knives no matter how you look at it um this is going to be a little more pocket friendly in the sense that you know it does make that really good use of size this is going to take up a little bit more real estate in your pocket but it's going to either one is going to be able to take care of any sort of edc task that you that you want to throw at it this is going to be a little stabbier of course so if you need to do piercing cuts and things like that it's going to excel at that more and this is just it you know with that sloping blade profile this one really in my opinion is is a really good all-around edc style knife i'm going to go ahead and primarily because the first time i handled one of these and the loaner that i had i really thought this knife begged to be used for work um and it just looked like it was a complete utility type knife i was even cutting drywall with it that first day that i had it or that first week that i had it with me and this knife just kind of screamed work and utility to me so i'm going to go ahead and give the utility factor and i just mean from an edc standpoint Utility over to the mcneese looking at cost they're both pretty much the same we're looking at mid-text they're not cheap but they both um they both deliver in their their price uh their their price the price points i guess is the word i'm looking for um you know the base on the mcneese is going to be a little bit more than it would be on the george um and when any time you get milling over plain you know ti it's going to add a little bit more to the cost as well but they're also they're very close in cost where i really wouldn't consider it to be a deciding factor in either of these knives um if you're looking to get either one of these you're not worried about 25 50 going in either direction on this knife it shouldn't be a deal breaker or a decision maker in my opinion your mileage may vary um so from a cost perspective i'm gonna go ahead they're similar enough i'm just gonna call that a push now the in-house category what i'm talking about is what is done in-house now jonathan mcneese um there he finishes the blades and he finishes the knives all in house however he says you know he gets them sourced a hundred percent u.s but their his materials and his work is done at outside places i don't know exactly which it may rotate and maybe at one point they're doing blades in-house sometimes they're doing blades they're outsourcing the blades to another us firm maybe they're doing scales in-house it's going to be a different set of things that's going on in house and at a house but he has been adamant and there's no reason to believe otherwise that is all a hundred percent in the u.s um now obviously final assembly happens in how sharpening happens in-house but i believe and somebody can correct me or jonathan himself can correct me i believe he does has a lot of things sent out as far as parts go and things like that u.s sourced of course work is done in the us through u.s companies and u.s oems but um it is uh i believe more is done you know through third parties and everything else now unless george's website he says the only thing he sends out is the blades their machine ground but everything else he does in-house i haven't spoken with les george about this um but once again no reason to believe otherwise and so in what i would consider a somewhat a category that doesn't hold a whole lot of weight at least in my mind i'm gonna have to go ahead and give it to les george on that one simply because um you know he does more things in house than uh than jonathan mcneese does with the oops i got it off camera then he does with the pm2 or the mac 2 i should say the pm mac 2 it's a little confusing so as you see when we're kind of lining it all up it looks like we've got size for the mcneese steel going to less george action going to the mcneese a push on the construction a push on the fit and finish utility going to the mcneese the cost being a push and the in-house construction on this midtech going to the les george for a total of four and a total of three on the mcneese that's what i have now what does that mean overall frankly it means nothing it really doesn't mean nothing you can't go wrong with either one of these this knife scores a little higher in the categories that i've somewhat arbitrarily set up for it than the then the mcneese does i really like a lot of things about this knife um and so really you know i like a lot of things about both these knives so really what it would come down to for me and what it should come down to for you is which one would you choose to buy i wouldn't base my decision on what i've seen in this video because as a matter of fact even though in my own scoring system the less george wins out this is the knife that i would keep and this reason being is because the first time i held one i knew that is it was one that i just had to get it's it's kind of rare when i borrow a knife and i'm like i need to get one of these for myself it doesn't happen all the time you know i have a lot of knives come through you know friends on instagram let me check them out and everything else and so i have a lot of knives come through and everything um so it isn't often where i get one of my hands and i make it a mission where i'm like i've got to get one of these so interestingly enough i'm actually even though it's fairly new i'm actually just struck a deal to trade this one it's an awesome knife um it really is um there's a lot to like about it i really do like it um but i'm actually trading it for a different less george i'm trading him for the talos i think there's a lot of things that these knives are very similar at um this is the one that i really just gravitate towards and i feel like i've got to have and i knew that from the first moment that i picked one up this i really like it there's a lot to love but i think i like the talos just a little bit more it's a little bit longer i think these knives are very similar in performance i think they do a lot of the same things i think this knife just does it a little bit better and so i want to get a knife that's going to be a bit of a different profile so i've gone ahead and i have made a trade deal as of today june 6 2022 um to go ahead and ship this off to a buddy and he's going to be sending me to talos and this one is going to be the keeper in any case wow it's a long video but i appreciate y'all checking it out let me know what you thought of my system am i full of it um is it a bunch of or is it halfway decent um any other different categories that you'd like to see in the future if i were to do this again would you want to see me do something like this again go ahead and give me a follow if you haven't done so already or subscribe using that button there give me a follow on instagram chuck underscore nun face um and yeah just stay tuned and i will get some other things going i got a couple things in the pipeline right now go ahead and turn on those alerts and you'll get those notifications when i got a new video drop it alright thanks a lot y'all