Bills vs. Bears Preseason Preview | Depth Chart Breakdown

n ahahahahahahahahah [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome into a new edition of going deep Buffalo podcast I'm your host as always Kevin M here with Kevin Syracuse to talk about a lot we got a you know we have a scrimmage Kevin was that will talk about briefly we're going to get into the depth chart we're going to get into some training camp news and then we're going to go down to the Bears game coming up some football coming up on Saturday afternoon that should be fun uh but first and foremost the show is brought to you by the summit center for some of the best autism care in Western New York and tonight's show is also brought to you by Dave dangler and the Larson Timco Funeral Home in fonia Larson Timco Funeral Home offering 100% fully guaranteed price and pre-arranged funeral plans with live streaming available you can give them a call at 716 679 9000 or visit their website at Larsson Timco funeralhome.com there you have it Kevin we're going to start right there at the top break down the scrimmage for us you were we were present like break down what you thought of it like want to hear what your opinions were that the crowd uh get into everything you want to say about the scrimmage we'll start there and uh break it down from from there well first of all I want to say that you were correct with your assessment of that wacky start time 5:30 on a Friday afternoon when people are getting out of work and trying to get into that congested area all at once I did not get into my seats until after 6 so I missed the first half hour now I think they did do a lot of stretching and warm-ups so I don't think I missed that much but once I was in my seats they were doing the full on 11 and on but I mean other than the traffic it was a great night over 36,000 fans were there and you know I tweeted this afterwards the Oakland Athletics I know this is totally a different League different ownership different team everything but they're averaging about 8,200 fans per game now this is a regular season game that we're talking about that they average 88,200 fans the bills got 36,200 fans for a scrimmage against themselves that says a lot that's four and a half times the amount that the A's are getting and again the A's are a dysfunctional franchise right now they actually have more wins than I thought this year but that just kind of shows how great bills Mafia really is it sure does now kind of look at it from a football perspective what was the feeling like down there on the field in your opinion what were you noticing anything that you saw from the sideline uh break down anything that you saw that you liked we'll just you spend a few minutes on this and we'll get right into training camp okay well um I was tweeting from our going deep account so we can reference those as we go along um I'll just go off the top my head for now and then if we need to pull up some tweets we can but the first thing that I noticed was Dorian Williams and Demar Hamlin were getting a lot of time with the ones now those were due to injuries uh we know how the safety room has been banged up Matt Milano did not play at the scrimmage so that's why Doran Williams was getting a lot of time but I think that says a lot because regardless of the circumstance next span up and it just so happened to be Dorian and Demar absolutely okay um I guess then with that being said like there's not a ton to break down with the scrimmage I mean um you know ultimately most reports have already been out there um and you know anything of note that you wanted to bring up before we move on to scrimmage or before we move on to the preseason training camp yeah yeah I mean there there's still plenty to talk about from the scrimmage we don't have to go on um I'll probably just stop and let you respond so I guess before we move on what are your thoughts of what I just said about Doran Williams and dear Hamlin because I think Mar is one of the most interesting pieces this summer because I hate saying it sometimes but we had him off the 53 man roster when we did this about what was about a month ago and now the bills came out with their death chart which we'll be getting to shortly here on our show tonight and dear is listed as a starter alongside Taylor rap I think think for me I think dear is a placeholder um ultimately I think he's just the most veteran ready guy um you know you have a couple of situations where Kem Jackson's getting ready and up to speed uh you also have obviously Mike Edwards and you have Cole Bishop down just week to week they're probably trending to to getting closer to get ready to play soon I think it'll be nice that he'll get a game or two it's kind of reminds me of Dodson a little bit last year where he may get a start in preseason I ultimately do not believe week one he's going to be your safety I think he's actually going to be his lowest safety for your preseason guy slash trining Camp slash fourth special teamer so that's really where I'll have him when it comes to Doran Williams I mean he's pushing to be the third linebacker um I think it's you know it's good that he he's made that jump to be ready um we've seen a lot of good linebacker play from Dion Jones um I've liked what we've seen from Eddie uh I think he's a guy that's been called out by his defensive coordinator Bobby babik Jr so I think that that ultimately linebacker a super deep room good for Dorian but when it comes to Demar Hamlin I don't expect him to be the week one starter however I do Envision him being entrenched on the roster he's probably left out of a lot of preseason uh depth chart slash roster Productions we'll see how it goes in two weeks when our roster projection show comes comes about but we're actually going to be moving up our show in two weeks to catch the roster cut so that will be on a Tuesday so we'll be here live breaking down the cuts um for everybody uh that should be pretty interesting shouldn't it in a couple weeks yeah yeah those are always uh some of the bigger nights um what was it trade deadline day that usually falls on a Tuesday so I think we did the same thing where we moved our show up so we could talk about the trade deadline so I definitely enjoyed those bigger nights yeah yeah in two weeks we'll break down our final roster projections there on the 21st and then on the 27th we'll be pushing up uh on roster Cuts so three weeks till roster Cuts two weeks till our roster final roster projection show so uh both of those things should be fun yeah for sure so moving on um aside from Dorian and dear one of the first things I noticed now I mean they were rotating back and forth so Josh Allen was getting a lot of time it's not like Mitch Tris was out there for the majority of the night but one of the first things I tweeted was Mitch trabis hits KJ hamler with the beautiful pass up the seam I think it was about a gain of 30 or 40 and um we could talk about that a little bit throughout the night because KJ ham I think is making a name for himself espe especially with where the bills have them listed on the depth chart so I'll leave it right there for now but then the next thing I tweeted was tris's pass to hamler gets picked off in the endzone by dcoin Hardy the 59 rookie makes a great play on the ball and keeps his feet inbounds for the int now this was a great play I wish there was a a replay of it I mean maybe someone had a clip of it that I missed on Twitter afterwards but they they've been putting Hardy on the boundary because I think they like having the versatility and with Taran Johnson and cam Lewis getting looks in the slot and um couch what's his first name the not Demarcus danan uh Dori Dori couch oh okay he's been getting looks in the slot as well so they put Hardy on the boundary and I'm like he's only 5'9 180 like I don't think he really drafted him for that and if you've been folling along with our show you know how I've been saying that I would like to see a boundary corner but I would like to see one with some size well he played like he was over six foot I mean he came down I believe it was a one-handed snag and he just kind of TR the ball in hauled it in kept his feet in and it was a clean interception they called it out of Bounds at first but then they said no his feet were in that was a great play and um you know he he was really making a name for himself yeah I mean I'm a huge toori couch fan I think ultimately he's making a huge play for the roster um he's a guy that I think has a lot for uh in his in his time big training camping big uh offseason activities that he was good in and now he's got a big time for preseason coming up to show that he can push for the roster a guy that I'm keeping my eye on uh but with Hardy right there and he's been playing boundary too man maybe you got your boundary Corner after a Hardy was matching up with people of the likes of Keon Coleman um he's been playing inside and outside he's right in the thick of the like you mentioned with KJ hamler he's right in the thick of the return battle uh pretty much going to be Hardy verse KJ hamler at this point uh so that's going to be an interesting you know we'll break that break that down a little bit more later uh but that corner room's pretty strong benford's been one of the best players in Camp as well and then you have rou Douglas with a big play in Camp um that Corner Room may not need reinforcements after all you may be cutting some players uh in that room that may get claimed so um we'll we'll see how that all develops but I really like what I've seen so far out of Tor couch what I've like what I've seen from dcoin Hardy uh and obviously the starters uh Ingram still pushing for a spot and I tweeted out five players the bills could trade we'll get into that when we look at the depth chart shortly but five players that I think the bills could absolutely do a Brandon Bean style right before Cuts trade player for player swap or player for late round draft choice so uh there's there's the roster has been pretty deep I've been pretty happy with the twos and the threes especially um so did you see that depth on fold when you were in in the stadium or was that harder to tell but it it looks very much so in my opinion as the twos and the threes uh you know there looks to be a ton of depth on this roster yeah no I think that was quite noticeable because it just seemed like they kept rotating in and out and they didn't really miss a beat now that's not to say that everyone was perfect because obviously the defense made some plays the offense made some plays and uh you're not expecting 100% from both sides that's the point of the scrimmage but it seemed pretty seamless for the most part now that being said I have a couple of other names here that I want to talk about and and those are Zack Davidson and Tyrell Shavers because Davidson was getting a lot of looks and he caught a a couple touchdown passes I believe one was from trabis one was from Allen and I think he is starting to carve out a role to the point where we might have to start thinking about him making this 53 man roster and we'll we'll get into this about Davidson versus Quinton Morris versus Reggie Gilliam because that's might what that might be what it comes down to and then sh to be honest I I didn't really notice much of him other than the very last play of the scrimmage he had a beautiful crossover nice juke move I don't know who was defending him but I guess there was no safety over the top because Shavers was wide open over the middle of the field I think he caught the ball at the 10 yard line and walked into the end zone but it was just a really nice crossover footwork move and I was like oh that's Terrell Shavers number 80 he's got some nice size and length to him so Shavers and Davidson I think um have been really impressing so far from between what I saw and what I've heard as well everybody knows if you follow me how much I'm in love uh with Zack Davidson you know I've tweeted out specific comments that I've seen from other players what I've seen from the co uh coaching staff uh he's definitely one of my favorite guys on the roster this year so we'll get into some of that and more what I've seen in training camp it's probably a good time to kind of transition any final thoughts from from the scrimmage that I know you mentioned the last play I personally haven't noticed Shavers outside of one-on ones um I think he's still a guy you can wave and stash on your P one of your your Premier practice squad guys uh back to your point but anything final to note from scrimmage I think that's it for the most part um just other than now this is going to sound more like a uh broad spectrum take here but I think the bills have a lot of depth and versatility and I think that's going to come into play and before we transition here we have a question from Harry says what's your prediction on the bill season for both of your record-wise I'm gonna go with 12 and five that's what I predicted when the schedule came out I'm G to stick with it for now because I don't think a lot has changed between now and what was it may so we've had about three months so maybe if there's an injury or like a Brandon iuk trade something like that um but there hasn't been a lot of action in the NFL so I'm going to stick with my 12 and5 record I think that's like a nice happy meeting where like this team can still win the division but I'm not going to sit here and say oh this is a team that's gonna take the one seed they're gonna have home field advantage and they're gonna go to the Super Bowl I'm not that far yet 12 and five is where I'm at I remember when we we predicted the scores and the schedule when it first came out we'll probably do something like that similar down the road we'll you know kind of talk about it as the final rosters devout might be a good show to reconvene on in like early September um but I had 12 and five I know we had different games or we chose uh so I agree I think 12 and five is the right record uh there Harry but as appreciate you tuning in but as you look forward to training camp now kind of fast forward since Friday um and you break down the last couple of days in Camp and what we've seen the defense has started to turn it on a little bit um and you've noticed you know great linebacker play from Matt Milano at this stage you've noticed some plays by rul Douglas and Christian Benford you know there Von Miller getting in there AJ Essa has been wildly successful you know good good comments from John Solomon uh Dewan Smoot has been very good from the interior playing interior and ex and and outside so he's jumped around a little bit um the defensive line Looks deep man like we'll get into the depth chart here in a moment but um it's been pretty interesting to see the defense finally stepping up to the play hasn't it yeah and that's characteristic of a Shawn mcder Le team the question is who's going to be calling the plays now Bobby babage did say during one of his either interviews or press conferen is that he's going to be upstairs this year right yeah presumably the call plays I would assume no nothing official but I would say that that is a little bit of a Bobby's still getting used to um those either he gave it death nugget on purpose or he's still getting used to um the the media side of things but Bobby Bobby seems to be very um you know very player oriented um pretty buttoned up in these interviews like he's definitely been sitting through some interview classes uh because he's he's giving away a lot of uh uh basic answ Shawn mcder style answers but did give us that nugget so it does seem like he'll be common place for the bills defense real quick we got to take a moment and appreciate this I'm tuning in from Thailand from Michael D Pasqual I've never heard that before so we have fans all the way across the pond so thank you very very much yeah it's in the morning over there too I think they're uh they're almost 12 hours ahead I think it's live in officially so I appreciate you tuning in this morning enjoy your day um still night time for us here in New York so uh there's really appreciate viewers from all over um but as you look through some of the other things that we've seen from Camp I've been pretty happy with the offense man like I know they've had some some lackluster days lately they're trying new things but one of the biggest standouts that I wanted to bring up is Zack Davids and Josh Allen commenting that it's going to be really hard for bean to keep him off the roster uh he has some tough decisions to make he noted that every position group has no notice Zack Davidson a 6667 guy with 46 speed nine Raz um and special teams ability slash was an all proo punter in college um which is very interesting you can have him as a reserve maybe you could do some things with these new kickoff rules I don't know man like obviously preseason we both CT Zack Davidson off the roster there was no way to know that he'd have this kind of Ascension um the bills have stashed him since 2022 that he's not just a udfa he's a guy that was drafted in the fifth round by Minnesota was Ed heavily by the bills in the 2021 draft uh presumably uh with Trey mcky another 2021 draft guy so the bills were clearly looking at the tight end room that year didn't come away with one um you know probably they were looking to supplement Dawson Knox at the time uh you know obviously later going on to draft d conade a few years later uh but what's interesting to me is um Davidson has everything you're looking for he's definitely a player that I would not expect to clear waivers I know everyone you say that about all your favorite players but tight end position people will roster that kind of guy I don't think you can expose him to waivers and look I'm really excited to see what he can do he's gotten number he's gotten wrapped with the ones I anticipate him having a lot of time in in preseason um gotta be one of my Camp standouts so far what do you think yeah now this is on me because I didn't even realize that he was a fifth round pick by Minnesota just because I feel like he's one of those guys who's always just there like you hear Zach Davidson you're like oh well that's just a natural cut hang him on you know put him on the practice squad maybe he can get promoted the active roster but maybe we should have been paying more attention to him because you know looking at his bio here he was drafted by the Vikings 168th overall in the 2021 draft and then he was released that same year so they put him back on the practice squad they bumped him up to the active roster on January 8th 2022 then he was waved the following August and then the bills signed him like you said September 1st 2022 signed to the bills practice squad so I mean that just kind of shows that I think there's a lot of raw talent there like he he just wasn't ready like you think that he has a lot of athleticism has a lot of talent that's why the Vikings drafted him with that fifth round choice but then you bring him into camp and he's not all the way there and you're like yeah we don't really have time to develop this guy we don't want to take a roster spot put him on the practice squad then you get the bills put them on waivers the bills grab them same kind of thing where it's like there's a lot of talent but he's not really ready yet this might be one of those guys we saw someone in the comments say who's one of your sleepers he might be like the top sleeper this year where like he really might be hitting his stride at what he just turned 26 I believe a couple weeks ago yeah he is definitely one of my favorite players I mean I don't think it's much to find a roster spot for him I know everybody's favorite so there's two names and you can tell me what you think of them I guess we'll get into some of the names that I think that Zack David how his path to the roster would make sense we'll look at the depth chart in a moment kind of go through the cap ramifications there's a couple things I want to talk about we were talking about live on built-in Buffalo spaces yesterday to uh Tuesdays at 9:15 we go live from the built in Buffalo account thank you for everyone tuning into to that you know we had the Lance on there uh we had a Keem um we had Izzy you know friend of the show Izzy we had a bunch of other people in um in spaces uh and then obviously you know so it was really cool to see and talk about this live it was really cool just Bill's talk only um so we were able to go through some of the thoughts and things that I had jotted down for the show but I want to break down the path to the roster for Zack Davids and some of the salary cap ramifications with a few players why I think they make the roster and more we'll talk about that shortly but if you you know kind of kind of review from Camp to one thing I want to talk about before we look at the depth chart a couple topics do the bills have a Tyler bass problem Kevin H [Music] uh no I'm gonna say no but it could get to that point very quickly because only takes a couple misses to the point where you're saying do we need a new kicker so I'm going to say no for now he did Miss was it one or two at the scrimmage he missed two today right I heard he made five in a row and then he missed a 46 y then a 52 y I feel like that's a range that he can never hit consistently like he's good from short he's good from long but anywhere from 45 to 55 I'm like holding my breath because like those 47 yarders are like holy cow isn't that that what he missed in the divisional round last year against Kansas City wasn't it like a 47 yarder yeah I believe so was it 40 I thought it was 44 but I it could be could be 47 I thought it was 44 though like the mid to late 40s give him like his worst nightmares and I don't mid 40s yeah mid 40s he struggles at I mean is there any explanation for that I'm not a kicker so I can't tell you like the the technological reasons like oh he's doing this with his foot he's yanking it he's he's putting a little bit too much spin he's putting too much power he's playing the wind too much from that distance there's as a former kicker myself I didn't play it at a high level um but I've kicked in a in a lower level in in growing up uh kicker punter tight end actually so it's lot like Zack Davidson actually which is funny I didn't think anyone would ever be a punter tight end um but I was I was punter tight end middle linebacker Um Zack Davidson almost follows a path he was 67 I'm not I'm only roughly close to six foot so he had me on a height uh all day but um there is some overcompensating going on on there like I think he even explained it as he was trying to play the wind he thought was coming and it didn't come he's automatic from that range he's got the leg he's got the distance he's got the accuracy he just sometimes runs into some issues with concentration in my opinion um you know he's been a pretty successful kicker he's actually I think before that kick wasn't he like 10 for 10 on game-winning or tieing field goals so it's not like he has a clutch issue uh he will miss he will miss bunnies in like random games but who doesn't like no one's 100% um before that kick against the Chiefs you mean yeah yeah yeah I think he was pretty good in clutch moments it's probably just a recenty I know it is it is season yeah and now you see him miss a kick like he could make 20 kicks and then the one he misses it's like oh my God Tyler bass missed again it was wild it was really cold it was a weird environment like I was right in front of the kick I saw him line it up um you know ultimately he thought he had a playing element that never came in terms of you know the way the gusts work in that Stadium you can never predict from minute to minute let alone snap to snap so um he guessed wrong uh probably should have been a little bit more confident in what he was trying to do there but he's been really clutch and ultimately look we had stopped Mahomes twice in a row one being a fumble through the end zone another being a couple times stop where we had to stop him multiple times near the 50 uh in the fourth quarter I do not think the bill stopped Mahomes a third time in a row at least in field goal range um um with a minute and 50 left or whatever 47 minute 50 roughly ultimately I'm not going to be too upset with the game if the game was ticked to zero I would I'd honestly be a little bit more upset by it um but that kind of time and Patrick Mahomes on the other side ultimately I can't sit here and say and the banged up defense like you you're talking about AJ Klein who's out of the league you're talking about sha Lawson who's out of the league you're talking about Jordan Phillips who's out of the league the defense was just not in it marula Douglas was half a leg Karen Johnson was coming off an injury um you know you had D Jack accident in the game you had I mean really no linebacker nexts decline it was a mess so ultimately um I can't sit here and say that that defense would have stopped Mahomes for a third time in the fourth quarter um so I don't I I don't I don't feel some type of like recency about that it's a training camp though that that bothers me just as much he needs to stay consistent these are good elements for the most part um like especially today he shouldn't be missing kicks at that clip um so I think that it's something the bills need to monitor uh and you're right that distance has seemed to bother him but he did Miss looks like I got the official breakdown 28 33 36 40 43 he made missed from 46 and 52 and made from 50 so he did make those five in a row and then he missed two out of three so that's what I have here um per per what I'm seeing another guy making plays today though right before we get into the depth chart we had Ray Davis picking up the blitz he's doing everything I believe he has entrenched as a running back too I think he's got that locked especially with the Tai Johnson injury I think he getting a lot of snaps he's your running uh running back too at this stage sure I think so yeah I'm pretty sure of it the dep chart says otherwise yeah that doesn't count they do they ever put a rookie do they ever put a rookie anywhere above a veteran not off well Bishop is ahead of Mike Edwards yeah I mean I think that's more of a shot to Mike Edwards personally but Demar Hamlin's above him you know what I mean like I would have liked to see Cole Bishop like be the starter but they they rank them time on that like you could argue Cole Bishop's been here as long as Mike Edwards right like by a by like not literally but they've been here at the same time the bills will put precent on guys have been in Tai Johnson's obviously had a whole whole season in the in the system Richard garage is ahead of tylon gyel absolutely I love Richard garage that's not that's not real like T Tyron GRE I believe is on the roster I think he's a guy that's been inside he's been outside he's been played a lot of different positions he's your ninth offensive lineman they're just that's just a random and we'll get into some of those other examples shortly but I think that Ray Davis has played well enough to by September 8th by week one he will be your team's starting uh excuse me second running back and getting a lot of snaps uh on the roster so we'll see I mean titans's not even healthy um but KJ hamler making plays what's your opinion on that a guy that I probably had written off so Shavers and possibly hamler with his return ability as well making plays with the second team over clay pool and shorter is a pretty big upset so far in Camp yeah and before I speak on that one other thing about Ray Davis he has had a problem holding on to the ball um he was going down the sideline I think he ripped off about a 50 yard run maybe 50 plus and I think it was Christian Benford who came up from behind him and poked it out so it was a great run but then he lost it at the last second it went out of bounds so it was still you know maintained by the offense but that's the one knock on Ray Davis is that he's had ball security issues now as for the wide receivers I think I think it's flipped because I I was saying that it's going to be between Chase Claypool Justin shorter Tyrell Shavers and KJ hamler and I thought that Claypool and shorter would really be the two battling it out for that last spot it almost seems like it's flipped where it's going to be hamler battling against shavers for that six spot with shorter and Clay point on the outside looking in just because they haven't been able to stay healthy and get those meaningful reps yep I agree with you yeah that's sorry that's what I meant was that it's now those two guys with the heads up in hamler with the return ability the bills can roster and have the benefit of having him be on the roster and return and have him active on game days if he wins that return obviously he's on the roster but it's a benefit to the bills because they can open up a spot elsewhere I think hamler May and this is like I wasn't the some hamler stand you know I I haven't really pumped him up much you know I was you know thinking it could be Claypool here uh in this situation but I think it's hamler has the early inside track him ver Shavers are neck and neck um I think Shavers is a guy you expect to make it through to the practice squad probably shorter too so you have uh Shavers and and and shorter on the practice squad for the most part but I think with his return ability and what he's been flashing on offense now he's made some good plays I think KJ hamler to me has the inside track to receiver six uh as we enter preseason is that like is that where you stand or you still think that if you had to pick today is it hamler or Shavers hamler because of special teams yeah I agree should we uh pull up the depth chart now yeah go ahead let's let's bring us into the depth chart and we'll talk about more from Camp as the dep charts up as it's relevant um you know as we can see some more um you know some more some more moves as as things have gotten pretty pretty um active here on the bills front so immediately like one of the things that steps out to me as we talked about Kevin mentioned Tai Johnson over Ray Davis I think that that's you know 5050 I think Ray Davis takes that job but also KJ hamler ahead of obviously shorter Isabella and Shavers um so I think that that's an immediate point of interest to me uh that early on that KJ hamler on the depth chart and I don't think it means a ton also he is the lead and kick and K Punt and kick Kevin that's an inside track to the roster you're talking hamler right yeah yeah yeah and that's why if like I was in a pinch right now and you said who's making the 53 man roster as a last wide receiver I think I would go with hamler for that reason right there I mean he offers so much flexibility on the offensive side and according to this he is a leading candidate here for the kick and punt returner that's right so I think that that's a big factor here uh when you break down this entire Rost uh depth chart uh continuing on looking at it obviously Matt Hollins above Keon Coleman I don't think that really means anything m is Matt Collins wide receiver one Matt Collins got a nice amount of guaranteed money he's on the roster so let's go through that real quickly guys I think that are on the roster you know this might not be going on a limb too much but these are guys that you know aren't top 20 guys in the roster ma Holland is on the roster in my opinion here's a hotly contested one LEL Collins um very much so as your second team left guard he's on the roster Kevin he got $1.75 million guaranteed money if you wave lyel Collins you have to not only pay his 1.75 million you have to pay whoever you do roster so say it's a $900,000 guy you're talking about 25 to 275 in extra money that the bills would love to have at the trade deadline or that they can roll into next year or use on an extension or a trade I just don't really think the the the material benefit of going with like anybody else in that roster spot Richard garage let's say or Kevin Jarvis I just don't think that there's any benefit um to waving lyel Collins and his guaranteed money so that's something to keep in mind I know he's not everybody's favorite the bills also always roster a guy you got a bunch of guys under 24 Ryan vandemark Alec Anderson um obviously you have Osiris Torrance you got a bunch of guys that are near the top that are pretty young um on this roster they would like a veteran most likely behind uh the rest of them then you're going to obviously roster potentially Tyron grael and you're going to roster Cedric vanran Granger rookies so like you're going to need either will clap or LEL Collins I think the money would push you to L Collins pushing will c will clap to possibly a trade candidate uh as the bills have traded offensive linemen before I think it's a pretty deep unit it's as deep as I can REM remember o line what do you think like you you you must have to roster L Collins right like the two the $2 and A5 million do extra to switch him out doesn't seem worth it and he can play tackle and that's where I thought he was going to be lining up but they're putting him at a guard so that means he has guard tackle flexibility that's a lot of value for the bills now we had this conversation last week between Alec Anderson will clap Cedric vanran Granger and a bunch of those guys on the interior there and what do you think about uh we're gonna have to shorten his name here like maybe we should just start calling him vpg because Cedric van PR Granger is a mouthful but anyways he's been getting reps of guard right yep uh minimally though like I mean he's the third team center right now he's got to find a path to the roster which is the problem obviously Alec Anderson plays Everything Will clap has gotten snaps everywhere L Collins has gotten snaps everywhere Ryan vandemark has bounced around um I mean vamper Granger's gotten tyrand greel has played both tackle spots and a little guard I mean he's got to hone in on he's got to not only beat will clap to make this roster I think the bills will stash him I think he'll be the 10th offensive lineman in the bills will stash him I just don't see a path the playing time right now minus some severe injuries you know I tried making this point last week and I don't know if I made it clear enough because I didn't really realize until after the show how this kind of like metric letes down because I was thinking that Alec Anderson is essentially blocking Cedric van PR Granger because he's a backup center right now and we thought that it would be van prank Granger I think it really comes down to tylon grael because if he moves up to left tackle that means Ryan vandemark slides over to right tackle that pushes Leo Collins on the inside and then if you have Alec Anderson getting reps set backup center that slides will clap over who's the odd man out Cedric vanr Ranger so it could come down to those two rookies right there between uh grael and Cedric vampire and Granger for not only the depth but also making this 53 man roster because I don't know if they're going to have room to keep both unless maybe like what you said they either just straight up cut or try to find a new home for will clap because he's just one of those older veterans that it's like okay well you know he wasn't one of our draft picks there's not too much money involved maybe we should get rid of him because there's a little bit more upside here with our draft picks right so I think that gra to me grael and Van PR Granger are on the roster he'll get a punt year but I mean ultimately that's the reason van PR Granger fell a little shorter arms and is only one position and um you know he's got to play center well and he's got to basically earn a starting job you're not going to have a rookie Center behind you know a veteran guy for most teams so it is a challenge with how do you roster a guy like vamper Granger until he's ready to start so hopefully um you know he will get all the development he needs I don't believe the bills will give up on him or grael with the cost control for four years I believe both of them are on the roster my official roster I think you throw Richard gr to the practice squad will will CL being a major trade candidate uh in my opinion I think another team will take a veteran center with all the injuries that come in the offensive line by us by early September so that's yeah I mean maybe it kind of depends on the growth and development from their rookies because if vanan print Granger can prove that he can play guard and Center then they might feel more comfortable Letting Go will clap but if he doesn't show that flexibility they'll say okay now we kind of need to keep will clap and we're going to have to find a way to either keep vanr Granger on the roster or try to stash him on the practice squad but I mean that's risky because he already fell a lot in the fifth round so I I don't know if he would clear waivers you're right so um as you look at the running back position now you got a rookie and Ray Davis here um and obviously you know you have James Cook James Cook's drop problems continue to flourish however with Tai Johnson U being injured Ray Davis has got a lot of time he's been a smooth catcher of the ball though um the the the catching has been not a problem darington Evans is is is always pushing for roster spots though Kevin like he's a guy that's been claimed last year when the bills had him uh he went to the Bears and the Dolphins active rosters so he's a guy that flashes and can do a little bit of everything for you um obviously being on the kick return depth chart obviously he's behind Tai Johnson um I really do believe it's a hammer versus Hardy battle um you know it's a nice to put uh Andy Isabelle as the backup punt returner but I think it's really a hamler verse Hardy battle at the at returns I I don't think you'll need aviner Johnson either uh but one idea I had in mind are you feeling comfortable with this running back room of Tai Johnson and Ray Davis or are you thinking you could use one of these players like will clap on and we'll talk about the defense in a moment to make a deal for a real nice promising running back three are you okay with the with with Tai Johnson making the roster off of another injury yeah I am um before I I give you more of an answer Steve has a question here can the Bills trade Collins and would it Ben would it benefit them financially so if the bills traded Leo Collins instead of w clap did they still own that guaranteed money or does the new team take on that contract um so the way that guaranteed money basically works is you know we can look at the specifics of his contract I haven't really considered um trading when it comes to Leo Collins but for the most part you're only going to run dead whatever his signing bonus is no team will inherit a signing bonus so 29 90,000 would be dead that's not that astronomical uh of of a dead cap space you would save the money by trading them so you would save um like like you you would pass on that guaranteed money to somebody else by week one then that guaranteed money locks that's just guaranteed of a of a payment to him it's not in a form of a bonus so a bonus would be something you can't retrieve uh when it comes to him basically the bill saying you know what we're only going to give you you know a $300,000 signing bonus but we're going to give you 1.2 million but we're going to guarantee it that means whoever's roster he's on has to pay him it's no different than believe it or not a veteran salary guarantees week one anyways so for most people that didn't know that um so basically all you're doing is basically telling L Collins he's on the roster by telling him his salary is guaranteed so you can trade that so you you'd be able to trade that salary to somebody else um at at that at that range someone could want him for 1.3 million because that week one you have to pay him anyways so consistently if someone's willing to give you something for him and he didn't make your roster you'd have to entertain the trade I just don't think cutting him makes a ton of sense but trading him could if there's a team that's interested I just think the path for will clap being traded as an interior guy with um you know a pretty modest salary is is something that could be very interesting to a team that had an injury as well yeah and again if they want that versatility that Collins can give them at tackle then I think will clap would make more sense because they might have more interior linemen than I guess it's not exterior but just tackles yeah for sure um so yeah I mean it's conceivable that someone training for Leo cins would be super strange it's not something I would anticipate happening um but absolutely it's it's in the realm of possibilities that somebody could conceivably say you know what I could be interested in L CS I I just I mean I don't I don't think that that's possible so um but but sure they could I mean that's that's definitely in the realm of um of of possibilities I just I don't know who's banging the table for a guy of that age uh when they could have just potentially signed and we'll clap a 28-year-old Center may have more interest to a team at $900,000 salary before we pull up the depth chart we are more than halfway through our show so make sure you smash that like button and subscribe to built and buffalo we'd really appreciate that and once again thank you to our sponsors tonight um now as we go back to the depth chart here Kevin what was your uh question here about the running back room yes am I comfortable with the three running backs like excluding Frank Gord Jr and darington Evans uh no you can include them are you comfortable that you're going to have the right running backs on this roster you can include him yes because I think Curtis Samuel brings a lot of value because you can line him up in the backfield and if they decide to keep KJ hamler um he also offers that flexibility so James Cook as long as he's healthy one of the I don't know we haven't really had this conversation yet but he was fourth in rushing yards last year like is he already a top 10 running back top 15 I mean he's at least top 20 um I guess that's conversation for a different day but either way he's in that upper tier of running back so I'm more than comfortable with him as long as he can hang on to the ball seems like Ray Davis is gonna be a nice rb2 we know that if Ty Johnson can stay healthy Joe Brady knew how to use him last year Reggie gilam is this where we kind of transition from running back and start talking about tight end because yes it is IAM this is interesting I know everyone likes Gillam I love Reggie gilam he offers a lot fullback tight end special teams but as much as he offers like he can essentially do three jobs at once would it make more sense to cut him I saw someone said that in the comments and then you can keep Zack Davidson as that backup tight end and you can just use maybe Ray Davis like the the the person said in the com comments here it was Ed so he says cut Gilliam move Davis to a fullback roster wise Samuel to running back roster wise You' be able to keep an extra wide receiver positional player so that might be a route to keep Zack Davidson if you cut Reggie he's on a six7 fullback but sure who are you talking about uh Ray Davis yeah I mean so so you're gonna move Ray Davis no Ray Davis isn't going to play fullback he's he's a receiving back so um so I mean it's good Theory to make roster spots but like Davis is going to be the team's second running back and you know if you look at the tight end room um you know you have if you're trying to make room for Zack Davidson too he's definitely not in the full like I don't think the idea there would be you don't carry a fullback um so you would still keep the three running backs you would go with you know you could make some moves at the tight end position but you could still cut Reggie gilam it doesn't preclude you from doing so um the bill Sav $1.8 million conversely to like Collins um you know you could save some money cutting him and the bills may want to exercise though that money um you know basically you can roster two people for one when it comes to him so you could roster Zack Davidson um and like a and like a Tai Johnson for the same cost of of Reggie Gillam so the bills could deem that to be an effective way to save a little bit of money uh so I don't think it's crazy to a lot of this I agree with it just the Davis to fallback specifically Samuel's already taking Snaps at the running back um he's not going to move to running back fulltime um he's going to give you a little bit of that positional versatility not he's not gonna be a position like you're gonna change him to running back fulltime yeah no I mean I don't think that Ray Davis is a fullback but I understand what Ed's saying because like let's just take Zack Davidson if you're trying to get him on the team that might be something where it's like okay let's just put Davis in that fullback type of role and to fill the void at running back now because you slid him up to fullback just bring down Curtis Samuel and that way it can kind of push gilam out and then keep Zack Davidson there that's moving two players yeah to just to cut gillium I don't I don't I don't I don't think so I think Samuels he's paid as 10 million play receiver and then okay so Steve says here if they want to play 12 personnel as much as I think it would not Shock me if they keep four tight ends Morris at 6'2 could be used as a fullback as well I I don't know about that I I haven't heard that one before but I I would agree with like the four tight ends because well actually does that include gilam as a tight end because you have conc and Knox Quinton Morris would probably be three would Gilliam count as a fourth tight end or does that mean four not including gilam and then you have Davidson so technically there's five tight ends all you can do is go with the bills column like ultimately I think that Gils should classify more as like a move tight end but the bills are still calling him a fallback on their depth chart I don't know if that's just for fun um like he practices with the tight end group like I don't know why he wouldn't be there maybe they just want to denote Him special he plays all the Special Teams units so you're gonna have to replace a special team side of him um I just I I just ultimately would like to find a roster spot and to save the money with cutting a guy like Reggie gilam I I just don't know the bills will agree with us here in the going deep Buffalo podcast special I just I I don't know if they're going to agree ultimately with me um they could agree with the money side of it um but I think really the path for Zack Davidson is the third tight end Quinton Morris they're going to try to sneak on the practice squad I think that that ultimately would be the bills decision if they were to to roster Zack Davidson everything else I think on the offense minus the six receiver um you know even even mvs has guaranteed money I just don't see them cutting these guaranteed money guys to take like a flyer on on another receiver they're already paying they basically said hey come play here we're gonna pay you your salary sure the bills could move on from them I just personally don't think that they'll move on guys like mvs lyel Collins uh a couple others we'll talk about on defense here shortly so I just think when it comes down to the fullback discussion of Reggie Gilliam I'd like to see US Open roster spot there but if the bills think he adds too much to the team side of things I just don't think that he's going to get the axe even if the bills will save um and he's on his final year of his contract even if the bills will save $1.8 million I it's it's gonna struggle for me to say that he's going to get the axe Kevin let me ask you this do you see a world where there are four tight ends not including Reggie gilam on this team like let's just say Reggie Gilliam is a fullback because that's what the bills have listed as so do you see a world where they keep four tight ends plus Gilliam no so in other words you would Quinton Morris Zack Davidson and gilam no I don't think so I don't think you can do it if they did that means KJ hamler would probably be gone right then you you absolutely if you keep four tight ends straight up like that five receivers 100% it's five receivers you're giving the return job probably to Dian Hardy he's earned it um and you're going five receivers four tight ends because of the 12 Personnel situation um so like four four tight ends you either need to sacrifice the sixth receiver to me or the fullback if you're going four tight ends I don't like that I I think I want that six wide receiver I want that flexibility I want KJ hamler I think is my favorite for the return specialist because that's that's a lot of pressure for a rookie a 59 rookie dealing with the Buffalo wins now granted KJ hamler hasn't really done it but at least you know he played college football at Penn State he went to Denver now he's in Buffalo so he has experience playing in those wacky climate conditions so I would rather keep six wide receivers and then I would say that they're going to keep gilam and then it's just between Davidson and Quint Morris for tight end three there you have it um okay pick between Reggie Gilliam Zack Davidson and Quinton Morris I think two of three of them make the roster then if you keep keep the six receiver that means that two of three of them make the roster what two are you keeping as of today yeah that's what I'm saying so I think it would be Gilliam and could Davidson uproot Clinton Morris that could Morris isn't a lock right as much as we like him in the bills like him no I don't think he's a lock that's and he wasn't great today in practice I that's what I have and I think he's got blocking issues he got beat by Javon Solomon when he was ISO isol block people are like you got to keep him because he's the blocking Dawson Knox is a guy that's used going to be utilized in most blocking situ he is your receiving do everything blocking 12 Personnel guy they're not going to rock I I watched um Quinton Morris in college he's a receiver he's a receiving tight end he is not a blocking tight so everyone's like why would you rob Zack Davids is doing everything he's getting down and dirty he's like the actual reason is because he plays teams not because he's the blocking tight end Quinton Morris just because he's the third tight end doesn't make him the blocking tight end he's not a blocking tight end I don't think he's very good at blocking personally um is Davidson a better blocker than I haven't seen enough we'll find out soon I haven't seen enough to make that decision confidently I don't think he'd be hard to be better then personally but I'd have to see more I think that especially with the contract situation there's nothing really there that is pushing me to say you have to roster Quinton Morris does someone claim Quinton Morris I don't know I don't I don't I don't know that he does enough that someone would claim him out his 28 yards last year I I don't believe he made one play the entire season then got hurt on it so I don't personally believe at his $985,000 Cap all of it can be removed there's no dead cap there on his contract I just don't think there's a lot of things that are guaranteeing me that he's a roster lock at this stage um stage in time uh Believe It or Not Zack Davidson makes $795,000 um so there's not I mean he's a little bit cheaper I not negligible but I personally think for me I think Davidson and Reggie Gillam do make the roster but I wouldn't be shocked if they somehow found a way that they didn't want gilam anymore and move away from him but when your qb1 is playing you get WPS with qb1 and he's commenting on you he's approaching on the roster status for Zack Davidson yeah yeah I and I think they like Gilliam too so I I think it really could come down to Zack Davidson against Quinton Morris as much we think that or at least thought that Quinton Morris was a lock maybe not so much anymore right yeah I mean I think that that's fair fair enough to say as you approach these final decisions and into the Bears game which we'll talk about in a moment Kevin let's bring up the depth chart one more time and go through the defense real quick uh we spent a good chunk of change on some of the Fringe roster spots on the offensive side of the ball so I think the starters are about what we thought you know obviously Hamlin gets the nod we already talked about that just with the injuries to Bishop and Mike Edwards uh interesting to see there cam Lewis being in the second team safety unit um he does enough for me to be a roster lock um I believe that cam Lewis is a roster lock he plays everywhere from nickel to all the Special Teams units got a two-year deal most people forget about that um so like I believe that he is on the roster he actually costs more to cut than to keep cam Lewis you can put him on your roster Kevin I agree with that now he was an undrafted free agent in 2019 I forgot he's been around for that long yep yep so this would be 27 yeah is this his what fifth or sixth year with the bills um fifth right officially fifth year yep 1920 21 22 oh sixth year this 20124 yeah he's got five years of NFL experience I'm not sure if he um was out for what he's listed as five like on his official page so I'm not sure they I I can't remember his exact path early on in his career um but I think he was uh he's got fif years of five years of official NFL experience literal six years though yes it's been six years starting now yeah I did not realize that cam Lewis has had six years of experience here yep he has and pre-draft dude he was only 5'9 and a half so yeah it's not like he's some big rangy safety um so like he's gonna like you know similar to what we were just talking about with Hardy um you know cam Le has had the come up you know come up season but I do believe cam is on the roster wherever you want to consider him uh he'll take a spot as the fifth safety or a reserve Corner special teamer so he's going to take up a spot um obviously Cole Bishop Demar Hamlin I think is in roster lock status now Taylor rap obviously as well I really think the battle right now to me Kevin is going to be Mike Edwards versus Kem Jackson right like that's kind of where I'm thinking um the the The Fringe player here here is on the froster do you have other ideas as you look at the initial they're both L his third teamers as as the original sa I don't think there's any room for Williams Burgess or Delaney you're probably putting some of those on the practice squad so Jackson vers Edwards is that kind of what you're thinking here at the safety position I never really thought of it that way yep but I mean looking at the depth chart maybe because I I mean I was very high in Mike Edwards I know a lot of other people were um a lot of analysts and content creators like I thought that was a perfect for agency signing I would still say that he's a lock but I mean is he one of the last guys to make the roster is what you're saying because I agree with you he's probably a lock he has a $1.6 million dead cap I can't sit here and say that others are going to make the roster but he's going to get like $1.6 million he has a $2.8 million dead cap 1.6 of it's guaranteed he's already been paid million dollar signing bonus um I I mean I guess he's approaching roster lock status by pure number standpoint otherwise the bills have to eat 1.6 million yeah I I think what's throwing me off is that cam Lewis is listed as a safety here and before wasn't he listed I mean at least he was playing at the nickel and now they have dcoin Hardy so I mean I guess that could throw a runch into things because let's just say that they put Hardy on the outside then it would be between hardy and Ingram to make the team you have Cam Lewis and Taran Johnson in the slot and then your four safeties would be rap Edwards Bishop Hamlin and I think that makes sense yeah so I mean when you narrow it down that way would it come down to dcoin Hardy versus um who was I I just said his name marus Ingram oh do you think it could come down to ingrams versus yeah Hardy yeah probably um so you look at the cornerback room Douglas Benford um Kyer um so you got you know obviously Taran Johnson so you got the four there so you thinking five corners and then and then um uh cam Lewis as the sixth Corner fth safety is that kind of what you you had in mind I guess yeah CU how many would that give us because if we're putting I mean I guess should we decide right now who makes it between hardy and Ingram I think it would be Hardy but I think Ingram's been playing pretty well drafted out of UB right yeah I think you roster Hardy you put um Ingram on the practice squad at this stage um I don't think anyone's gonna claim him so let's roll with that for now you would have two guys on the slot you would have uh Taran Johnson and cam Lewis so there's two and then you would have four on the boundary with Douglas Benford Kier and dquan Hardy so you have to have six corners and four safeties and I guess essentially that's what you're saying where that last spot would be kind of a rotation between um cam Lewis going from corner to safety correct yeah he'd be your Fifth safy Fifth Fifth safety sixth corner and special teamer so yes I I do believe we're probably on the right track there with rap Hamlin Cole bishop and Mike Edwards I don't know what you do with Kem Jackson he's like the wild card in all of this in my opinion so if Edwards is back I think Kem Jackson's on the roster um and they're seeing what he can do if Edwards or Bishop is an IR situation or anybody else gets hurt Kareem Jackson that's why he's here and ramping up I I don't know officially what they're planning to do at the safety room as terms of numbers but I think we're on it right now four safeties five corners and then cam Lewis um so to be a total of if you look at the totality of the unit it's a 10 player unit was that is that kind of what we're thinking yeah hang on I I I gotta go slow here because there's a lot of moving parts so there would be five corners yeah okay five corners four on the boundary one in the slot yep four SA and then okay yeah C so cam Lewis is kind of like his own separate entity I guess as a way to look at it right yep he's almost like the regie Gillum at the defense kind of kind of but plays more defensive positions like Reggie Gillum doesn't really play like there's not a ton of spots for him offensively um but yeah I'm just saying like in terms figuring out like where to list him and like how to how to like produce these numbers right you're you're right yeah and the bills could always decide that Kem Jackson's going to be was one of their veteran style practice squaders too because you can put anybody on the practice squad now since Co so they could go that route um it depends on the health of the other four right so if rap Hamlin Bishop even count cam Lewis so rap Hamlin cam Lewis bishop and Mike Edwards if all five of them are healthy they're back they're ready to go for week one I don't believe Kem Jackson can make the roster however if any of the five of them are out K Jackson makes the roster I believe I see that you think Jackson's next man up over Terell Burgess I would I would believe so yes yep I would believe Williamson Burgess and Delaney are all competing uh for the the pivotal safety practice squad spot so one of those three will make it to the practice squad whoever they decide they like more I would say Burgess but yeah okay possibly yeah Buress has got an inside track to it and I know he's he's played well recently uh can I love um I be I mean I think that he is destined for the practice squad and so it's to Cory couch so I think that the these units are fairly straightforward like they don't have a lot of extra fat when it comes to the defensive back field so I think that a lot of these guys will move to the the practice squad pretty seamlessly agreed like is that kind of your your opinion of the DBS yeah I think so I think I think we got it narrow down so we're going with nine DBS Plus cam Lewis as like that Swiss army knife yep so 10 total yep that sounds right to me okay I agre that I I'm gonna move to linebacker here I like that Nicholas Morrow is Terell Bernard's backup because I've been saying right along I think it's him and Dorian Williams as the two backups like right off the bench if anything happens to Milano and or Bernard I think those are the first two guys Williams first and then moral I think Morrow is kind of like like that Terrell Dodson of this year and then Williams is himself from last year but just an upgraded version of himself and then I think I would agree you have Balin Spectre and Eddie yosio and I think Joe and Dron Shane Simon who they just signed the other day and Deon Jones I kind of had Dion Jones on the outside looking in anyways so I think that makes sense uh would you agree with that assessment of the linebacker room so you're keeping how many make the roster though fine after that assessment are you keeping five or six I haven't gotten that far yet yes ultimately I agree with that breakdown of the linebackers though yeah um I I think six like I would want to keep six and I think we kept five because we put Spectre on IR just because we figured he always gets hurt um it'll be interesting I mean it's going to be a numbers game but off the top of my head if they keep six linebackers I'd be happy but like they might have to dwindle it down to five okay put it this way if it comes down to Spectre and yosio who are you keeping I'm keeping Eddie um they talked about Eddie a lot I mean I think that he's the the the choice for um Bobby babit I you know he he brought up his versatility and what he's been doing in rooms and how good he's looked on the goal line and what he can do for a defense I think Edie is is handpicked especially in the draft room after he got the defensive coordinator job I believe that Olaf oio on the roster would they keep Spectre Spectre as well possibly he's a prime trade candidate for me I mean just this unit is so deep I think even Dion Jones has a say in this I think uh Joe andreon and Shane Simon one of the two or both will go to the practice squad so that's pretty straightforward Dion Jones has a chance at this thing um but I think with Milano Bernard Williams and Morrow pretty deep there as you get into keep an Edie as well I think that you have the opportunity to trade Bal Spector he'd be of the guys that I tweeted on my five that's possibly could be moved for uh an additional pick or player now correct me if I'm wrong but I I just kind of thought of this I could see Yola foso as being like a two for one where he is kind of like balen Spectre and Tyler matakevich in one player like he has a special teams ability but he also has that middle linebacker ability and that athleticism and the tackling ability as well for sure yeah ability so like he really could be a combination of mad kage and Spectre and you could just say all right well mad kavage already signed with the Steelers Spectre sorry but we just don't have a spot and we're just gonna give it to this rookie who has a little bit more upside and he doesn't have as big of an injury history yeah I could see the bills trading Bay ins Spector um Joel and Jon's going to definitely be your guy he's going to follow in the other UB players being on he's going to for sure be on the I mean he could get claimed I don't think so he's going to for sure be on the bills practice squad that's like you can like jot that down um so I think he's playing himself to make sure that he is going to be a practice squad guy but I think that ultimately just like his counterparts at UB and some of the DBS in Ingram and Lewis and Joe andreon is going to go to the practice squad uh ultimately but I think it's a deep unit it's a unit they wanted to work with um you know obviously Morrow instead of Dodson this year hopefully Bernard and Milano are healthy um and then obviously another year Dorian Williams and then on top of that you brought in Osio you know you have Spectre still coming back so you brought in Osio and Deon Jones into the mix to further the depth compared to where it was last year the only difference being a Dodson for Morrow swap other than that they added a couple of players to fortify the depth uh the struggles one of the biggest struggles especially late in the year that the bills had um losing losing Bernard I mean it was just a one game thing but losing Bernard was Monumental so let's talk about the defensive lineman and then we'll shift our Focus to the Bears so what do you think about the D lineman here Von Miller as uh the third defensive end I mean I think that's just for now yeah as part of like that ramp up process where I think like he will Sur plant epinesa in due time but for now they'll probably just take the safe option and say that it's epinesa um would you agree with that yeah I think either way it doesn't doesn't over another thing that doesn't overly matter on on this for the purposes of this they're both one two and three so I think I think those are those are lock status there for the bills and then Dwayne Smoot as defensive end four I think that makes sense uh Casey twohill I think he dayto day he left with an injury today now the one that could be surprising here is Kingsley Jonathan ahead of Javon Solomon yeah I don't I just don't think similarly to the other roster positions I think Javon Solomon's played well enough um you know kingsley's earned the to to be right there in the mix Kingsley Jonathan's really sticking out to me on depth chart in general um as a trade candidate uh he'd be probably the only one here that bills would trade and that would have some value no one else there probably has any value um so I mean I guess you could I don't know what Casey two Hill would have any value but I'm going to point to Kingsley Jonathan probably being the only asset you could trade from this unit um so that watch out for he was one of he was also on my list of potential Bean style trades um but I think that they're going to roster Javon Solomon ultimately comes down to Kevin how many defensive ends do they keep is it going to be the six which does seem likely the four defensive tackles for a sure real quickly get into those at Oliver dayquon Jones Dwayne Carter Austin Johnson there's not really too much to talk about there that came out as scratch um that came out just as as you would expect most of the defensive tackles actually with scratch the big question here are Casey two Hill do you think he makes a roster Kingsley Jonathan what do they do with him and DeShawn Williams so do you keep 10 or 11 the bills kept 11 defensive lineman in 2021 um which is a lot or do you default to the 10 number so that's kind of um but I agree with the ones and the twos I don't think there's much movement there so we don't have to spend too much time there um all we're talking about really here is the Kingsley Jonathan DeShaun Williams Casey two Hill Javon Solomon how what's what are your what are your opinions I think that you have to keep it to 10 if you want to potentially keep that six linebacker like I don't think that they can keep 11 defensive linemen and then still try to roster no you can't keep six Lineback but then it's Spectre then you're talking about though who's the sixth linebacker you're talking about Spectre versus DeShawn Williams right essentially uh I don't know I well no two Hill okay or two Hill sure I I think Kingsley Jonathan would be practice squad so Solomon I think makes a team okay so yeah it would be Casey tle versus Balon Spectre in that case right sure yep yep yep that's what be it it's kind of fun to like narrow it down like this because I never even had that conversation in my head but like once we get into it and start talking about it you narrow it down and it's like it really could come down to Casey two Hill and Balon Spectre and who knows like these are the conversations that be and mcder are having daily also who will be claimed who the bills think they can get to the practice squad do there is there a trade candidate if they can trade for what they perceive and they they do deem to get some value for someone like Kingsley Jonathan could open some things up that's why you know guys like Spectre Kingsley Jonathan are any of them do they have a market do they have a late round draft choice that would come do they have a player running back corner something that they could make a move for um Bean makes these moves all the time especially at the back end of his roster specifically so I don't think it's crazy you know trade for Ryan Bates like I don't think it's over the the bills will have their eye on guys like Alec Anderson Ryan vandemar Zack Davidson's um look at how good that they've been at drafting and and waving you know claiming players they played Ike bucker forever um Alec Anderson and vandemark were claimed Zack Davidson was a practice squad take similar um so you know he's going to be playing this Market if there's no trade involved the bills will have their eye on somebody anyways so I don't think that it's just going to be a simple cut situation where they don't either make a trade or claim a new player uh it's possible but I think that the bills could finagle at the back end of their roster um here but Kevin I think that was a great break down of the Bills roster we don't have to make those decisions luckily in two weeks from today we'll break down their final we'll do this in more talk about camp and some of the preseason games that we've seen talk about the Steelers practice we'll talk about everything in two weeks from today um and we'll do our final roster projections at that point so luckily we don't have to lock in anything right now um but we will officially at that time and compare it to our pre uh training camp rosters and see what it looks like and who's made the roster from where we thought in May uh and who has finally we're here who has finally made that final push to make the roster Zack Davidson's hamlins was off most people's rosters KJ hamler who will look to be on that final roster we'll do a final roster show in two weeks breaking all that down and then we'll have a final roster show where cutting cuts are live who's could get claimed any trades we'll do that uh three weeks from now um but we'll push that show up to Tuesday so we can be live with you guys as the camp um cuts happen so Kevin Bears game want to talk about this for at least at least a few minutes um Josh alen says today doesn't know how much he'll play if he'll play at all in the preseason I don't believe he'll play game one the precedent has been game two and then last year he played a series in game three because that Steelers game was awful um so a who are you looking forward to seeing the most we're not going to sit here and break down positional battles but who are you looking forward to seeing the most in this game who needs to show out the most and are you like are you resting most of your starters are you only resting like the top five players what's tell talk to me about your your strategy and philosophy for this game okay so I'll start with the philosophy I think I'm more old school in the sense that I want to get that continuity going and the chemistry going quicker like sooner rather than later because there's so much newness here to the bills like so many new faces with that reload that they did this off season so I think it's important that Allen can connect with his younger receivers so I would put the starters out there for a series or two and then just yank them like you don't care about the score you don't really care what like if Josh throws an interception so what and then I think that second game is the one where you let them play probably what like a full half and then the third game is just totally backups third stringers fourth stringers so I think if ever up to me I would put the starters in for a series or two this week and then let them play for the half next week okay there you have it I wouldn't play him at all this week so to to capitalize on your philosophy I'm only resting a good amount of players like I'm resting probably 10 players in this game so I still think that there's the difference is like you want to get a tunea but you need to see some of these guys with some ones so that's that's what I've been told from players like when you look at like a guy like I'm just making an example Al Anderson and Ryan vandemark it benefits them to play with some ones in case they need to play with some ones in the game um good point Dion Dawkins and Spencer Brown getting snaps it'll help them a little bit sure Josh Allen says it doesn't um he pretty much B basically said it doesn't really help me but I'll do whatever coach says um I'm fine with him getting series here and there um I don't push him too much I don't think there's anything he needs to show if they want to work on a series or two next week that's fine with me uh if it looks really bad or something getting him in in a series getting him in a series in game three was a testament of like him not being on the same page with dorsy like him needing to play against uh the Panthers last year in the first to start this game was weird I don't think he sees game three I don't think he sees game one game two should be enough um so that's where I'm at with the starters but when you play guys like you want to see Mitchell trabis with some ones like it's not fair to Mitchell to be playing with backup offensive linemen that's not indicative of who he'll ever have to play with if he had to go in a game he's playing with Deon Dawkins and Conor McGovern and I mean I think Conor McGovern truly that's a tough one like I think he should get plenty of of time I don't think that there's any material benefit with resing him other than if you're worried about him getting hurt so that's what you have to to make a decision on but maybe you'll see a lot of Alec Anderson Ryan vandemark I guess do you push players like David Edwards and Osiris torren it would be nice to get them in there to to play um I don't know how much I mean obviously you got to sit Dion Dawkins um other than Dion Dawkins to me on the offense I think you sit Dion I think you sit Josh Dalton con Kade like what I mean that's probably it James yeah okay I could see that James Cook and obviously Tai Johnson's hurt so that means a lot of carries for Ray Davis uh darington Evans um and and obviously Frank G Jr you know you each get like a quarter and a half so but I agree I think it's about those four run offense I think everybody else should play uh the the one that's tough for me is Conor McGovern I think that him getting snaps at Mitchell trabis is beneficial right or or do you not think so yeah I think that would kind of be like case in point here with Conor mcgoverin because as I was saying you want that that continuity and that chemistry to start on day one and you know they've had multiple days but like for the first game I think you want to get that uh adaptation you know like you want to get the feel for it with McGovern shifting over and playing Center this year as opposed to guard and correct me if I'm wrong but he hasn't played center in an NFL game since like never right hasn't he always been a guarder he a top ranked Center out of high school he's played it at pen state to start with and then transition so he feels more natural at Center he's grown up playing Center so I think you just got to get the I mean Josh is snapped by Mitch Morris basically in the come up right so once Josh became good they signed Mitch Morris um and since you know since since then 2019 he's had Mitch Morris so he just has to get the style that that Josh is looking for as a center calling out plays the veteran leadership noting reads being able to have those long arms and blocking he's really good at those it's really just giving the ball to Josh how he wants it so that's like the only thing but as a natural Center he said he's more natural at Center and will show on film um he's excited for once the snap is had and what he can do in protection and reading protection and kicking to the next level is said to be an upgrade so that's what the bills are pretty and Aaron chromer are pretty excited about Edwards has been pretty good in Camp Kevin according to what I've been able to see and obviously Osirus torren isn't going anywhere and the two bookend tackles are pretty you know obviously you know uh they played really well last year for most of the Season or all of the season so I think Conor McGovern like like d like I think it's a little exaggerated just like the ray Davis fumbles are when Ray Davis puts a fumble on the ground in a preseason game I'll care when he does it in training camp to stay healthy make sure no one's getting hurt like I'm not overly concerned yet he hasn't had an issue with it he's a really smooth catcher of the ball which is usually indicative of of hands um I I don't really notice a ray Davis fumbling problem but when it shows up in preseason in games I will care um so just like just like with with Conor mcguy to make a full circle if he's having issues I'm gonna care until then I don't care the bills could be trying different things he could be saying snap it like this to me they could be trying different different sets different looks guys motioning in the back field throwing things off they may be trying different horizontal movements there could be a lot of things that they're testing out that I'm not going to care until their actually play is called and a and a snap gets muffed so I think that there's beneficial reasons to have him in the game with Mitchell trabis um against the Bears uh I'd like to see Mitchell trabis play a solid three quarters between but before turning it over to Shane Buell um I'd like to see get a majority of the game because I think these reps are hu not he's not going to really see any reps these reps are absolutely huge I want to see him throwing a Keon um I want to see him throwing to Shavers and M Hollands and KJ hamler probably Curtis hler doesn't play a ton I would assume um he'd be another guy I guess you could sit out uh at least in preseason game one um but my philosophy offensively is play half the offensive line play a majority of these guys um I'm not really worried about the the the small scale injuries when it comes to the ones um I think the reps are pretty important um and Josh Josh and Conor will get on the same page they're still a month to the first first game um so that's I think that's that's that's a that's a side note so that's kind of how I view the philosophy of it but Kevin any comments to that and then tell me about who are you looking for to see play wait so did McGovern did he ever play center for the Cowboys or was he always a guard ever since he came into the league he was always a guard Okay so I I would put him out there so yeah I agree I mean I guess I understand like you don't want to put Josh out there James Cook and Kade Deon Spencer no but I could see it where it's like all right let's just get the rust off we're gonna give you one or two series next week you'll get one or two quarters that's I I could kind of see that kind of progression but I think McGovern does need at least some time on uh on Saturday now what was your next question um out yes so to to clarify so he took 12 snaps at Center 2021 for Dallas and 88 at Center in 2022 with Dallas so he had 100 career Dallas snaps but when you ask in 2020 when he came in the league he played all of his snaps at Right Guard just to clarify okay so okay he did not come in playing Center he played Right Guard he then took a 100 snaps at Center 12 in 2021 so nag nothing really I'm sure that was just some finishing off a game somewhere in 88 which is not a lot but at least two games worth so he does have 100 NFL snaps at Center on top of being drafted uh excuse me um scouted as a center in high school and being to Penn State as a center um so he has more Center reps so he does have 100 NFL Center snaps just I wanted to clarify okay well hey that's good to know um now as for who I think needs to have a big game on Saturday and just continue that progression I'm just going to list guys that we've been talking about KJ hamler if he plays Tyrell Shavers like this is a huge Shavers game is Justin shorter healthy no is he day to day or we to week day to day so if he plays Chase Claypool same thing like those guys you got to see some stuff from them anyone day to-day is not playing though day to-day to me means like won't play this game week so I don't think you'll see him until uh the Steelers game is clay still out he is with that I I did expect him to be because we talked about in our show last time I did expect him to be back to start game week um but I think he's also Gonna Miss This Week he probably won't see him um You probably won't see him at bastel next week either okay um yeah and shorter has a knee problem y so I guess those guys won't be playing but you know someone like a will clap Cedric vampire Granger other guys that maybe aren't like the flashy names where you think I oh I I want to see Keon Coleman see what he can do well maybe we should be looking in the trenches because as we were talking about earlier in the show it could come down to someone like alel Collins versus will clap or Cedric van prank Granger someone that that sorts you know uh Casey twohill if he's healthy uh Balon Spectre guys like that Kingsley Jonathan so I think those are some of the names to Quan Hardy cam Lewis we think he's a lock but you know some of those type of players um you know I I talked about Dorian Williams and Demar Hamlin to start I don't think they really need to have huge games because we know what they can bring I'm looking more for guys that have that upside where it's like oh I didn't realize that Zack Zack Davidson there you go that's another big one that I'm missing but that's like a perfect example where it's like oh this guy really impressed today and now we're going to have to re-evaluate our evaluations because he's making some noise yep uh yes shorter has a knee problem day today he's officially day today though so that's good um bills have a lot of day to-day like there are some injuries but nothing the good news is that only the two safeties are week to week and it's already been a week or more depending on the safety like Mike Edward feels like he's approaching the two at some point soon so we week to week May mean that both of those guys can make it back by the third preseason game so the bad news some safety injuries the bad news some d to day guys the good news not a lot of high-end roster guys and the good news is not a lot of length on those injuries KN on wood I mean I know they're superstitious people um but just stting the facts um that current date not a lot of injuries there has at this moment um to important players hopefully that continues and day-to-day situations are good for me um that like even shorter and Claypool like in theory should be back like in a week um so I'm not overly they need the snaps more than I'm worried about their injuries I'm more worried about them needing the snaps um of of making a roster not necessarily worried about their injury same thing goes here mostly up and down the roster I don't no one on the injury front as we approach the Bears game is that alarming to me the only reason the safety is a little bit alarming is those are the ones labeled week to week as well as the bills rushed out inside TR Burgess and Kem Jackson they haven't really made many moves at any other position to make me worried so that would signal to me that they're not the bills are not worried across the receiver room they're not worried anywhere specifically um I think that I personally think that all that happened was by by um Claypool and shorter two big competition for the receiver six they're giving up huge ground and the bills feel comfortable with going to hamler or Shavers um and and we mentioned both of them as all as as potential guys to push um and it happened those two guys kind of like I knew the bills like Shavers hamler always had some potential and they've just come up right into those those final two spots from Claypool and shorter and that's that's that's the big movement and the bills feel pretty comfortable that they have that six receiver so if I were to narrow it down I would say three players on offense three players on defense so first for the offense I would say Shavers hamler Davidson and then on the defense I would say Hardy and then you can help me fill out the rest here I mean who who should we be looking for on defense would it be like a balen spectre even though we kind of know what he's about or someone like uh Kareem Jackson a a veteran who is trying to get his feet wet here um who's the other one that I was thinking of here maybe TR oh to Cory couch like would that be like someone to keep her eye on here like because I I feel like with the offensive players you kind of have like a mindset where it's like oh there is an open spot and this is an open battle and I think that Zack Davidson is right in the prime of that I think KJ Hamil and Terrell Shavers have a great opportunity but with the defense the way we kind of laid out the depth chart who is like the the biggest one to watch here I think Hardy is like right in the middle defensive line specifically The Tackle L that's pretty much set I don't think they want to get rid of Javon Solomon um would it be lwh hanging fuit say Kingsley Jonathan like we kind of know what he's about Casey T hul's dayto day so like who should be three players on defense if we should be looking for so what T Hill and like you said two Hill being dayto day is Eddie still dayto day right with the uh ribs so I think he's day to-day with the ribs so he would have definitely been like he would have been guy D like Hardy's absolutely a guy I'm watching like that that's easy I personally like to Cory couch he is he was he officially day-to-day too was is couch I thought he may have been out um has there been an injury report or is it just based on what we hear from the reporters it's just what we hear from the reporters until mcder mcder gives us one like every six days so okay perfect so we'll have it we'll have the official one um we'll have the official one tomorrow so I hope Tor couch plays he'll be one dcoin Hardy's absolutely one um I'm not looking at the linebacker rooms too solid to me there's not really something there I need to look for um at least at this stage in going to the Bears game so I'm going to go with the two Corner the young two young Corners obviously like I believe that um the safeties are important I think you'll see rap and Hamlin play um I don't know if the maybe with the injuries the bills can't risk rrap maybe it's gonna be Hamlin and Kem Jackson or something Hamlin and and um cam Lewis I think with with the injuries I think you do have to sit WAP not because I think he's a studly uh like I just think that you got to have your starting safety I don't think that Taylor rap plays in this game especially without a running mate um so I think that he'll probably just do to health you'll want to see the I think the best way to do it would be to play like Hamlin and Kem Jackson because then you can see um like both of them on the field at the same time with the same unit so I think that that's pretty important so I guess Hamlin and Kem Jackson are interesting couch and Hardy are interesting defensive I mean I want to see Dwayne Carter um I want to see um you know I don't need to see a lot with the defensive end the four veterans there really so I want to see uh I'm going to be watching for the play of like Casey toil out so Javon Solon will be interesting to me um and then the two is on the two is on the offensive so defensively that's where I'm looking so I'm probably looking at like Solomon Hardy toori couch Kareem Jackson dayquan Hardy that's what I'm looking for on yeah Solomon would be good one CU I was going to say that the front seven between the experience and the injury factor it's kind of hard to say yeah so my three were G to be I'm glad you said Solomon because I I'll I'll have a couple of different ones here um or maybe just one different one but I would say Hardy for sure Demarcus Ingram because that's been a position that I've been talking about all summer and then to Cory couch because I think he's interesting and I this is on me but I forgot about him a couple times and I I like even when it comes up in conversation I'm like wait what's that guy's name again oh yeah couch so like that's perfect example of like a guy making a name for himself or like I have half the name but then it's like wait what's his first name maybe after Saturday we'll will'll learn his full name okay there you have it um offensively then I mean I'm look looking for Ray Davis he is a little bit easier I'm looking for Ray Davis I'm looking for KJ hamler I'm looking for Zack Davidson I want to see this backup oine like I'm looking for Van PR Granger I'm looking for U my guy Tyron gyel I'm looking for not as much for fandom Mark and Alec Anderson though I am interested to see how they play B Collins can he get out of his own way so I'm looking at the number two line because that's you know the bills May Rosser T lineman after all this is said and done they did last year uh so I want to see the second second o line is pretty important the bills are pretty deep there so they should be able to hold their own uh in a back as long as they're playing against twos if the Bears play their ones forever that's different but if they're going against twos I should see the bills o line be above um the Bears backup defensive lineman as they are using their two so the bills two offensive line unit be better A lot better than the Bears to um backup uh defensive line I think they could probably hold their own against their starters but if you look at the Bears and this is what I was do try to get a bears guest on just to talk to us about who's popping who he should be watching for where are they weak so that we can evaluate it to our roster not really because I care about Andrew Billings but more be or montz sweat more because I care about like yeah more because I care about um you know where is it going to be Fool's Gold where do they struggle where are they strong in case they're really a corner or something but like Dominique Robinson Zack Pickins Bayan coward Jacob Martin is their backup SE uh backup defensive line in Chicago I would expect the Bills offensive line to take care of that situation um and obviously trinee Edmond as you mentioned so uh starting you know obviously starting middle linebacker for the Bears and Caleb Williams will probably play finally uh in this in this season so that should be fun but though offensively that's what I'm looking for the backup offensive line ray Davis uh Zack Davidson um KJ hamler you know tril Shavers so you're a little bit more on the trenches I'm more on the boundary okay got it um one one thing I want to say here about the bears looking at their depth chart like they are maybe I shouldn't say stacked but they are very very complete like one through 22 out of their starters here I think the the two big questions are how much is Caleb Williams going to progress as a rookie quarterback like all the pressure is him essentially and two do they have an upde because they have some names here and there like you know Jonathan Owens Jack sandborn like Owens Simone B's husband yeah yeah um Jaylen Jones like they have some names on the defense Noah suul fifth round draft pick from the 23 class yep but it seems kind of thin so like their defense their starters are really really good they injury yeah they don't really have the depth and same thing like on the offensive side I would argue that they have the best wide receiver Trio in the league with DJ Moore romad dun and Keenan Allen like that is amazing but then behind them Tyler Scott vus Jones DeAndre Carter Dante Pettis Freddy yeah they're top heavy they're topheavy you know they remind me of the 2019 bills like before they made the playoffs after Josh it's it's it had some good players at the top you know qu Young quarterback um you know I think that their time may be coming um but ultimately I don't that the backups there like I just read their backup def like I don't think they're I don't think their defense is is in a situation that's going to move me a lot but their depth is a bigger issue and that's what I was gonna talk to probably a bear's guest for um but I just don't think there's anything there I was gonna have my guy from Lockdown Bears Lauren Cox come on um he was he was tied up with a concert tonight but he was going to come on and tell me about um some of their issues that they've been having but then some of the things they're looking forward to so um ultimately I agree with your assessment that this is like a 2019 Bills roster to me can they put it all together and make the playoffs it's there in front of them but the backups across the board I don't really think they have much at the running back position I don't really love khil Harbert I don't you know if anything happened to Caleb they have Tyson ba be and Brett rien um you know guy that made a name for himself in the preseason in the Hall of Fame game was Colin Johnson Joe Buck couldn't stop talking about Colin Johnson um in that in that Hall of Fame game um but ultimately the death of them might be the offensive line like Nate Davis Ryan Bates Tav Jenkins and the interior um they need to play pretty well because it's not a great unit Ryan Bates is a guy that bills could give up on so we'll see what they feel with Shelton Coleman Matt prior behind them Braxton Jones at left tackle I think that they have a lot of work to do on that now the bills have the same problem I think they have a lot the bills took years to try to figure out a o line I think they have some work to do that old line um that Old Line in Chicago they could be a team that wants bull clap or that they already took a they could they already took a player from us in Ryan Bates I don't know if they double down um but they very much Co Kevin any thoughts about this game that you want to get out there that we haven't talked about well um anything else for the listeners what are you thinking about I don't think so um just looking at their depth chart one more time okay oh and the point that I was going to make was I completely forgot that they signed Mercedes Lewis who is in year 19 of playing in the NFL Caleb Williams the starting quarterback is 22 years old so like that is incredible that Mercedes Lewis has that much time in the league like I thought he retired seven years ago and here we are what 2024 for the Bears that's wild when was he drafted back in one of those years when I was looking at I remember covering that I wanted the bills to what year was that like 2008 something like that I couldn't I can't remember Jackson back in the day right yeah yeah they said he could do it all tight end grew up see like he's one of those guys that like that was my childhood like he was from like the early 2000 or like mid to late 2000s when I really started watching football and like Mercedes Lewis in a jaguars uniform 2006 first he's 40 that's insane he better play next year he needs he needs to have 20 years yep I agree that's very interesting he was drafted when I was in college wow um that's crazy so uh definitely that's that's why I remember it um he was a 2006 first round pick 40 years old good for him I can't believe he's still one of the best first round pick yep yeah that's right and theyd too yep one of the best blockers ever um so there you have it at the tight from the tight end position obviously Kevin lots to talk yeah go ahead crazy question but because of his durability and how long he's played and his blocking abilities is Mark sades Lewis a Hall of Famer or is that just ridiculous no unfortunately I don't think he that's ridiculous right I don't know if it's ridiculous I I I just don't think he did enough like you can only be average to above average at certain things that's not what the Hall of fame's about definitely had a really good Career Pro could he make it on one of his wall of fames maybe I don't I don't even know what team would do that uh but no I don't I don't think he's anywhere near that I mean his best season was in 2010 he had 700 yards and 10 touchdowns and that's it like he he has 5,113 career receiving yards and 40 touchdowns so like no like like you said he's wall of fame maybe but I don't think he can be a Hall of Famer yeah I mean like dton King K almost had I it's a different year it's a different football year now but like he almost had his the same year that Mercedes Lewis had in the first three seasons combined so we'll kind of see how that all plays out he did have one big year in I mean he could go on the Jacksonville Jaguars Wall of Fame sure like that's possible it's funny that he played 10 years in Jacksonville roughly and then a bunch in Green Bay he's only played for two teams in that whole time but before Chicago that's crazy five years in Green Bay too yeah he was pretty legitly like utilized um but that's enough about the um Bears a 40-year-old tight end um so I'm looking forward to this game football's back everybody on Saturday we'll be back at you um in two weeks talking about the depth chart our final roster all the training camp news wrapping up as well as um what's going on with the bills in terms of the two games and the practice this makes me scared the the Pittsburgh Steelers practice so we'll be talking about that in more um we're making our 503 man projections and final projections and roster positions at that point leading us into the final week in three weeks from now talking about um the cutdown day and what's going to happen that day that'll be a big show so be here for the next couple shows that we have going on and to our show sponsors the summit center and Dave dangler and Larson Timco really appreciate our show sponsors Kevin give us some final news to leave leaves off with what are you feeling give me get football's back what do you feel how you feeling um I saw the Bears are minus two and my initial reaction was are you kidding me how are the Bears favored against the bills and then I was like oh wait it's preseason calm down there It Is Well from Kevin and Kevin this is going to eat buffalo on the stress free baby don't worry about Saturday noj that's the only thing no injuries injuries and a lot of depth in competition and certainly no important injuries no injuries at all and hopefully the 10 to 12 to 15 players R giving us into this especially with that Steelers practice onfall thanks everybody for tuning in Kevin and Kevin we'll catch you guys live and we're looking forward to breaking down this and the roster and more we appreciate all you guys talk to you soon [Music]