Notre Dame Rundown - Is The 2024 Irish Squad Better Now, Golden Age At Running Back

hey [Music] IB Nation welcome back to another edition of the Irish breakdown podcast it's Tuesday August 20th which means the countdown is now 11 days until Notre Dame kicks off the college football season and only see Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday four days until we get some real college football action I'm I I am excited cannot wait Lots going on I want to introduce you all to someone new this is Trevor trobridge Trevor lean up show them you got that rocking that IB right Trevor is a new staff writer at Irish breakdown. comom he is a new member of our team and guys I gotta tell you I when I interviewed Trevor I planned on I still and I still gonna hire some more people but it's this one was like okay about five minutes I was like all right we're gonna have to hire this guy because he's a really sharp guy former quarterback so I'm a little biased there you know I love former quarterbacks because I am a former quarterback uh but really really wicked smart football guy I'm excited to have him on board and and Trevor we were going to have this show last Thursday you and I together but then some things and life happened on my end but I am excited to have you with us today man looking forward to the show yeah no thank you for having me on it's cool to be on this side of the desk uh been been listening for the last four years so um excited to get into it man um cannot Echo enough how excited I am for football season I guess my seasonal depression is now over now that we're like couple days out from football so ready to get into it well we've got some fun topics today Trevor and we're going to talk for part one of our show today we're going to talk notame running back room because and I don't remember what sparked it but I was having a conversation or or I was doing some research on the running back room and I started thinking like you know what like Notre Dame is really coming along at running back after a t a period long period of time where running back was okay but nothing special and then you start thinking about the future like dude they're about to go on a really impressive run here at running back and so we're going to talk about is Notre Dame entering a golden age at running back are they already in it or is what came before setting the stage for what's to come or are they already in it and it's only going to get better moving forward or will it just stay the same which is still really good moving forward so we're going to talk about the past present and future of the Notre Dame running back room and you know what actually got me started on it Trevor is I was actually uh I was doing some research on Ricky Water in relation to uh Jeremiah Love and then looking at the 1990 running back room and I realized Notre Dame had two running backs that went to the NFL and rush for 10,000 career yards and then I look on that same team and I'm like Dorsey Levens is like eighth on the team in rushing and he couldn't get on the field he's Super Bowl champion multiple thousand yards season I'm like how loaded do you have to be that Reggie Brooks had to move to defense and Dorsey Levens can't get on the field at running back and and then that kind of got me thinking about where things gone and where things are so we're gonna have some fun with that and then part two and this is a shout out to a member of our message board Jimmy McGill who posed a question the other day about is Notre Dame better or worse at certain positions and then that sparked a very good discussion on the message board and not everybody saw things the same way some people disagree with my quarterback take and my running back take my linebacker take and it's but it's it was actually a good discussion and I think there is room for debate so what Trevor and I are going to do in part two and part three of the show is we're going to go position by position and then just kind of look at both sides of the ball you know sort of holistically and say where is notame where do we think notame is better right now compared to where where they were last year and and where was noted Dame better compared to where they were at this time a year ago expectation wise so we'll focus more on what the unit was but then also to give some context of what we thought it was going to be because what you expect to be good isn't always good and what you expect to be a problem isn't always a problem and so we'll dive into that and then we'll do this we'll go position by position holistically we'll do offense part three of the show will be the defense and then we'll briefly mention special teams because that guy has some strong opinions on the Special Teams as well so I got another guy that's got some strong opinions on special team so Trevor it's gonna be a fun show man and again I'm glad to have you this is gonna be a much more fun show with some dialogue as opposed to just me talking about it so I'm super super fired up to be able to to talk about with someone today yeah absolutely I'm excited to get into it it's stuff that I mean Brian you know this that I'll talk my fance Zer off about but now that we can have this back and forth it'll be it'll be good see this see I'm actually GNA help your relationship that's that's what I'm here for she's going to be so happy that you have someone else to talk to about this all the time so yes I'm just I'm here to help man that's what we do that's what we appreciate that appreciate it so let's dive into topic one here Trevor and topic one is going to be about the noted aame running back room and you and I are from a different generation I'm in my 40s I believe you're in your mid 20s yep 27 very okay so mid to Ladish 20s very different generation I was a freshman in college when you were introduced to this world okay so we grew up in different eras of Notre Dame football and and so you look back at it and you think about how you're going to view certain aspects of Notre Dame is going to dependent on when you were born and I grew up as a Notre Dame fan really starting in 199 1988 but then quickly looking at the history of not football when I was born Vegas Ferguson was the star running back then he was basically replaced a couple years later by Allan pinket then Allan pinket was replaced by uh they went through a period of time where Notre Dame backfield was again very loaded you had the 1988 team that had that was so loaded at running back that they had to move Ricky Waters to wide receiver to start with rocket Ismail you had Mark green obviously was your leading rusher at running back you had obviously Tony you had Tony Rice was your leading rusher you had Tony Brooks who was a very talented player would have should have played in the NFL longer if he had didn't have some ISS had Anthony Johnson who played in the NFL Rodney Culver who played in the NFL and then you kind of go through the years 89 again it's Mark green it's the same group of guys in 1989 Anthony Johnson Ricky Waters becomes your leading rusher at running back Tony Wright is and your overall leading rusher he had rocket Ismail getting carries in 1990 Notre Dame was so loaded at running back that they had two guys that had 10,000 career rushing yards in the NFL neither of them led the team in rushing Rodney Culver did who played in the NFL before he passed away you had still had Tony Brooks you had Jerome Bettis on that unit and they were so loaded that Jerome Bettis only ran for 115 yards that year dorsy Levens couldn't get on the field he transfers to Georgia Tech wins a Super Bowl with the Packers mult thousand yard rushing seasons and Reggie Brooks got moved to defensive back Reggie Brooks obviously would eventually finish in the top five and he voting as a running back that's kind of how loaded Notre Dame was back then obviously Dr mettis and Rodney Culver were a great run two punch in 91 and then of course in 92 arguably the best onew punch of my lifetime at run at running back in in Reggie Brooks and in Jerome Bettis a year later one of my favorite just fan favorite running backs at Notre Dame Lee beckon has a thousand yard season for the Irish as they go in 1993 as they finished number two That season and that was a golden era of not only running back but also fullback Jerome Bettis Ray zers Mark Edwards and then you kind of had a a bit of a Down peer with Tony Fischer and then right back to autrey Denson who becomes the school's all-time leading rusher and then after ay Trevor it kind of was a little up and down you know you had some moments in there with like the Julius Jones has a big final year I mean Ryan Grant had a thousand yard season but he was just kind of an okay back you know Darius Walker was a really good player and then after that running back was a you know it was not a strength for the team you know you had some nice combos in the early 2000s but you know nothing special you know Jonas Gray and SE wood were a nice combo and Seer wood and Theo rck were a nice combo and then you kind of get into you know 2015 things kind of start to change a little bit right and you have a breakout season from CJ prise then Josh Adams emerges as as an impact player 2017 he has a monster season he's gone the next year he gets replaced by Dexter Williams he has a big Time season almost rushes for a thousand yards despite missing the first four games of the Season he's gone the next year was just okay although Tony Jones was still a good running back average six yards a carry and and ran for over 850 yards in 2020 you have the Emer of Kiren Williams we get two years out of him 2022 you have a great one-two punch with Logan digs an audri ese who rushed for over 1,700 yards combined and then of course last year audri has a monster season and breaks a bunch of Notre aame records or at least gets in the record book uh you know in in regard to you know career rushing yards touchdowns and then single season production and then you start looking at this year and you say man you know not a lot of teams can lose a running back that rush for over 1300 yards and 18 touchdowns and you say I think they could actually have a chance to be even better and that kind of what got is what got me thinking like you know Notre Dame in the middle of of an era where boy they're they're they're putting some pretty good running backs on the field for college and there there aren't a lot of teams that can kind of have their success but they're still not Elite you know Kiron was good he wasn't Elite Dexter was good he wasn't Elite Josh Adams was good he wasn't Elite and and so I think that's setting the stage for what I think is about to be the Golden Era I mean look the foundation's got to be laid right Trevor I mean you got to lay the foundation first then it becomes that greatness and I think Notre Dame has a chance whether it's this year or moving forward to enter a period where you could look back and say Notre Dame can produce big-time running backs as well as or better than any team in the country that is what I think big picture they're on the verge of and I think it already started in in recent Seasons especially last year with the emergence of audri ese yeah I I agree 100% I mean you you start to look at what the program has kind of transitioned to over the last call it eight nine years close to a decade and every program wants to get to the spot where you know they're reloading right um you know a lot of programs would see somebody losing a guy like audre guest May you know an 18 rushing touchdown guy and say well who do they have left luckily for us we are starting to build that recruiting pipeline up enough where we're recruiting Dynamic players to come in fill those roles which is why there's been so much excitement about around Jeremiah love this year it's because of what he's able to do on the field you combine that with you know all of the promise at jadarian Price shows um definitely definitely a strong Foundation moving forward for sure let's get to the specifics of this Trevor and and look at where Notre Dame is and what would it mean to be in a sort of golden age and what does notame have to do to get there and and that's where I think um the the topic is gonna it's not it's not what I think I know that's where the topic is going to focus on because I'm we get to determine the topics right um right but when when you look at running back like as as good as Kiren was when you look at his college production like somebody's pointing out what he did last year in the NFL that's irrelevant to what he did at Notre Dame I mean Ricky Waters rushed for 10,000 yards Waters never rushed for even 800 yards in Notre Dame it's a different animal right but when you look at Kiron in the NFL or in college KY was a good back but he was a back that averaged 4.9 yards per carry his last season and only rushed for a,2 yards in in nine games when you look at where he was in 2021 he only rushed for not only he rushed for 1125 yards and only 5.3 yards per carry he was a he was a very good College running back he wasn't an elite College running back the production wasn't Elite and the play wasn't Elite it just wasn't and you could say the same thing about like like Josh Adams Josh Adams was was had outstanding production but I would often argue that as as much as I love Josh Adams he was not one of the top backs in the country because he was more relying on I would say things like you know could you imagine what Jonathan Taylor would have done in 2017 if he was running behind the Notre Dame offensive one right you know that right you know what would have Ahad Bradshaw done that year what would some of those other you know Royce Freeman what would he had done running behind that what would AJ Dylan have done running behind that 2017 offensive line and and so it's not saying it's not to diminish what Josh did or what Kiron did but there's a there's a level of yeah it was very good and it was definitely good relative to what we've seen from past years at Notre Dame but it wasn't Elite from the standpoint of okay this football team has one of the Premier gamechanging backs and so when I look at a guy like Kyon Williams excellent player but he wasn't on the same level of ab Hall he wasn't on the same level of n Harris or even the two North Carolina running backs they had two running backs that rush for more yards than he did and and you know being okay to say he was a heck of a player but he wasn't there you look at 2021 when Kyon rush for a thousand yards that year he finished the season I'm just going to go yards per game and look at where he was yards per game he that year ranked 48th nationally in rushing yards per game good back not an elite back he wasn't in the same league as Kenneth Walker he wasn't in the same league as Breece Hall again he wasn't in the same league as bejon Robinson Duce vaugh guys like that to where the difference to me for what audri was last year Trevor is what makes audri different is number one his production was among the best in college football his 13 plus you know 100 plus yards his 18 rushing touchdowns you know last year audri uh finished eighth in college football in rushing yards per game KY was 48th behind a pretty good offensive line in 2020 um and actually 2021 he wasn't in 2020 um when in yards per game Kiron was 31st excuse me uh behind what was a heck of an offensive line audri finished eighth last year audri also finished third in rushing touchdowns last season so we're talking about a guy that you know Kiron ranked 19th in rushing touchdowns in 2019 and he ranked 10th in 2020 and let's see all but four of the guys ahead of him played in same as you fewer games than he did because if you remember like Kenneth Walker had the same amount of rushing touchdowns as Kyon Williams in 2020 he played eight games Kon played 12 because of Co and where so a the thing that's unique about audri is is the production but also Trevor to me he didn't do it behind an elite offensive line like Josh Adams had in 17 like Kiron had in 2020 I think that's another reason it was more about how good audri was right than the other that that's kind of where I why I look at say he was Elite not just his production was Elite like it was for Josh Adams in 2017 yeah I mean I the biggest difference for me too um in addition to the individual player being Elite in audri is the consistency that he did it right um with Josh Adams with Kiren Williams a lot of their highlight plays were these 50 60 70 yard touchdown runs which believe me I've watched highlights of and loved in the moment and it was fantastic but I think what made audri so great is knowing that he was able to go out and get six yards almost every time he touched the ball behind an offensive line that was decent but in comparison to 2017 and 2020 it kind of pales in comparison you know what I mean so I think with audri what makes him Elite in addition to the other running backs you mentioned Naji Harris Breeze Hall those guys were consistent almost every time that they touched the football and that I think is the the strides that Notre Dame is starting to load up with in their running back room and that brings us to the present and and then the future and and I believe that this is like Kiron was a good player and I think some in the chat don't re like it sometimes I feel like you can't say a guy wasn't Elite or people hear that as he sucked Kyon was very good and in 2021 k was even more impressive in 2021 because he wasn't running behind a good offensive line but there's a difference between being really good and being Elite and and that's the difference Kiron is very good he was an elite when I look at this this the aspect of of where Notre Dame is now and I look at the Jeremiah loves the jarian prices the kedrin youngs to a degree Inus Williams you start talking about two things number one it's this is potentially Elite level Talent there's a lot to prove but potentially Elite level Talent there's a different type of athleticism in playmaking ability in the legs and and mind of Jeremiah Love and jadarian price and kedrin young even than what we've seen in past years even compared to audri because of the speed difference with those guys compared to audri the the other part of it is in past years it was K in 2020 it was Kiren and and Chris Tyrie and that's it and same in 2021 in in 2019 it was Tony Jones and that was it and in 2018 you know there was good depth in 2018 but there was a big drop off after really the the the first it was T to you know Tony was a solid back up but Tony was not an elite running back a high level running back he was a good college running back there's a drop off after deck in 2018 in 2017 you had a little nice one-two punch but Dexter Williams had not emerged as a consistent guy and guy you could depend on yet the thing here now is in past years you lose your start or you're in trouble what's been different about Notre Dame the last couple years is if you lose audri or audri struggles with fumbles in 2022 all right Logan go get us a 100 and then vice versa you know last year had audri gone down thank goodness he didn't I think notame would have been okay with Jeremiah Love and jarian price and Jabron Payne and now you look at 2024 and you're like Jeremiah could easily go out there and rush for over thousand yards jadarian could easily go out there and rush for 100 a thousand yards and you know heaven forbid that they lose both of those guys kedin Young's going to be a freshman All-American anus Williams may be a freshman allamerican one of those two guys will step up and emerge to where you can lose a guy like Jabron Payne and you're like that stinks for him but I think they're fine and I think that's the difference it's the waves that Notre Dame can throw but just that with all due respect to those other guys Kiron was a smart player Wicked smart player really good balance really good agility but he ran a 46 and he was little right like that's going to keep him from being sort of an elite back at the Collegiate level these guys not only have the size but they have the elite athleticism to match now we'll see if they have kirn's heart we'll see if they have kirn's feel for things but the the the raw talent is special and you know you start talking about a guy you and I were texting the video came out on Sunday and we're like did you see what kedin Young did to a Don Schuler who's had a great fall camp like this running back room is absolutely loaded and I think that's one of the things that's very different for me high level is higher and the depth is something like we haven't seen since Lou Holtz was the head coach in my opinion yeah absolutely the the ceiling is higher than what it's been in previous years you compound that with the depth I mean Notre Dame has you know a four deep running back room and that's not counting unfortunately Jabron Payne who's out with a season ending injury right now you know so you know call it he's healthy we have five guys that could theoretically go to most schools in the country and fight for starter if not be the Bonafide starter so that is a situation that Notre Dame hasn't been in in a long time in the running back room to your point you know you've had your great players before in the past you've had your kirn and then we'll see what happens after him right but Notre Dame is in a spot right now that they have four guys right now that can all contribute to the offense which which I think is going to be a big indicator of how good this running back room is is because I do think that all four of them will see their fair share of carries more speaking the two younger guys and anus Williams and kedrin young but you know historically you got to be some special type of player to be getting minutes like that on a big name college football program like Notre Dame which is why I'm excited for for the future of this room and moving forward here's another thing that factors into it Trevor when you talk about how you can attack opponents what what made the lolz era so fun to watch was you never knew which back was going to break out today is this when Mark green dominates you is this when Anthony Johnson goes off on you is this when Rodney Culver goes off on you I mean in 1992 it's like man we gotta we gotta try and stop this Jerome Bettis guy he's really good oh who the heck is number four how do you stop all that and and then when you start talking about uh you your your your number two guys and things like that like I'm gosh you're talking about years where you've got Lee beckon and Randy Kinder and and just a loaded just a loaded depth chart and back then you had to deal with the fullbacks I mean so like I I remember I think it was 1992 or no it's 1993 one of the the Highlight runs of that season obviously re Lee beckon had a lot of them but arguably the biggest highlight run of that season I think it was 1993 I'm going to look up not name's 1993 schedule because those years tend to some of those games can kind of bleed together but I believe they played no it would have been 90 was it 94 they played g a home game against Purdue it might have been 1994 I forget which year it was but Ray zers had just a Monster Run I mean so you had to deal with the fullbacks back then too as Runners you had to deal with Mark Edwards after Ray zers left and it just was kind of like if if one guy has a bad game okay fine if Josh Adams had a bad game in n in two in in 2017 you weren't going to be as good you know if if Darius Walker had a bad game back in 0 05 or 06 you were not going to be as good you know I mean you could and you could go through the years and and kind of talk about that say if this guy this guy doesn't play well you're in trouble what was different about the Holtz era was they could just throw waves of backs at you and it it it expands the margin for error because if your starter doesn't have a good game you're okay ride the hot horse I mean like last year in the bowl game is a perfect example Jeremiah loves a starter couple nice runs early but overall they were balling him up I think he had like 39 yards on 12 carries so what do they do try to jarian price out there and he goes for over 100 and then late Jeremiah makes a great you know play for a touchdown on a reception so it just it's hard to stop a team when you have this different type of you know this this depth of talent the other part too Trevor is some guys have a skill set that may be better suited for a particular defensive front compared to another and that makes it also harder to where you know like Josh Adams is a great vertical one cut and go guy he wasn't a guy that if he had to make a lot of moves he was going to be as effective so when teams could kind of create smaller windows or throw off the timing of the Run game he would struggle we saw that with Georgia in 2017 this Notre Dame team has different skill sets so like if you need somebody maybe Hammer a little bit more hey this might be a jadarian kedron game and we're going to use Jeremiah to get the ball maybe in space if this is a slasher game okay this might be a Jeremiah game where you know we're running outside Zone and counter and he's going to put his foot in the ground and just explode on you and then we talk about anas he's similar to those other guys so that's the other part of it too Trevor is you have different type of dynamic skill sets which means you have less bad matchups for your team when playing the type of multiple different looks that no's going to play because they're not in the conference they're not playing a similar style of play or s similar style of athlete and I think that's another thing that factors into what makes this backfield potentially potentially so special and reminds me so much of the back fields I grew up watching you know in in the late 80s and early 90s yeah in addition to that it it mitigates the risk of becoming one-dimensional right that has been such a huge issue that I hear bounced around um you know in previous Notre Dame offenses and a lot of people just hear onedimensional and they think well they're they can only pass now or they can only run which is true but when you have an arsenal of players that to your point have such a wide range of skill sets you're putting a defensive coordinator in a spot where you go from having to game plan for you know seven eight skilled guys to now you're doing 12 to 13 skilled guys you know and that's that's what makes those multi-layered running back rooms wide receiver rooms insert position skill group here what makes them so dangerous now the question is going to be okay how are they going to produce this year and we've talked a lot about that in past shows and and we'll talk more about this you and I as the season goes on because Trevor is obviously going to have a very important role for what we're going to do here moving forward with a lot of our shows including potentially being on the postgame shows and thing things along those lines but you know let's kind of glimpse into the future a little bit Trevor and this is part of the the reason that I have some optim optimism as well the only guy on the on the roster that is done after this year like sorry we'd love to have you back but you can't be back is Devin Ford now they may have you know TR everybody's has transfers and and things along those lines but when you look at this room I mean Jeremiah Love couldn't go pro if he wanted to he's only a sophomore jarian price you know possibly could he could possibly leave but if jarian price Goes Pro after this year that's a good thing for Notre Dame that means he had a monster season and he was really good you know what I mean but is and then you talk about those two and we could talk about in two three years if you're starting running back room or your running back depth chart is some combination of kedin young and anus Williams guess what you're still loaded with elite players they look different their style of play is going to be different but you're loaded and and so the future the immediate future the next two three years is potentially very bright and then when you look at okay what about after that you know the 25 running back class is solid but not great the more success these guys have now the easier it's going to be to continue this level of recruiting in the future and then part of the thing with the 25 class is it was not a great year running back wise anyway and the fear that notame had is if we load up with other great running backs then the portal is going to kill us whereas you bring in some program guys who can still play Justin Thurman's a 4-4 guy Daniel Anderson's from one of the best high schools in Arkansas very good back battled injuries last year a Tony Jones type of back it's good to have those kind of guys because if their time ever comes like it did for Tony Jones who's the bridge player between Dex and Kiron he's a pretty good running back you know and and if he was able to stay healthy that year he probably goes for a thousand yards but th those guys are necessary but you're gonna have to say okay but can they can they get back to that I have no reason to think that they can't because that's what they've done I mean Chris Tyree in 2020 you talk about in the 2021 class why am I drawing a blank on who the the the years get confused for me I know oh 2021 was Logan and audri and then 2022 is jarian price and then 2023 an Jabron Payne 2023 is Jeremiah Love 2024 is kedin and anas they're going to recruit running back just fine as long as D McCulla is here and then of course when if he ever leaves then Marcus Freeman go hire somebody you know that that that can do the same thing because it was Lance Taylor that kind of got this thing rolling Tony Alford is the guy that was the primary recruit for that really good stretch in the late 2s with you know he recruited Dexter and he recruited tan folston and he recruited Josh Adams and he recruited a lot of those guys so the the future Trevor is it's this isn't a hey guys enjoy this season because you're not gonna have that next year that's not where we're at with Notre Dame it's kind of like enjoy this and sit back and we're going to be enjoying it for a while because this depth chart is absolutely Ely loaded for the present and the future and that's that's one of those exciting things because like Trevor haven't we been here before with Notre Dame right where like they're loaded in the present but you're like I hope this guy doesn't leave because the F like there there's nobody like him you know like like that that's kind of and we've seen that with some great players in the past right where that you I hope this guy doesn't leave because I don't know who's going to replace him and and that's a position where what makes this team overall different is you can lose a j bertran and say yeah as a heck of a player two-time Captain but they're going to replace him with Drake bone and King cille yasa they're goingon to be all right and that's kind of how I feel about running back where you can lose at audri Ese and say he was a great player gonna miss him but they're gonna be fine and that's something that's very different about being a Notre Dame fan right now and we Are Notre Dame fans I mean we're analysts and we're going to be objective but we're also both grew up as Notre Dame fans so we have a different perspective that's what makes this unique is it's Notre Dame has finally entered reload mode at running back not not rebuild reload and that's an exciting time to be in it's starting to become eily similar to which is a good thing to what the offensive line has been doing over the last I mean really call it since we had Zack Martin I remember you know going back through and thinking you know after that combination left after you know Zack Martin and Chris wad on the left side in 2013 I think was there last year and then it's like okay well now who and then you went through in Ronnie Stanley right um and then you start thinking okay well Ronnie Stanley he was a top pick in the draft well then then who do you have you know and and you just start to see this pattern of reloading to your point of yes recruiting can be as awesome as you need it to Marcus Freeman is a good recruiter but the product on the field is what's going to sell your program and what's going to sell the school so I think with a lot of the success that Notre Dame running backs have seen you know since 2015 with CJ brise is new younger recruits can look at what's happening on the field and say hey look I can I can go there and um you know make a name for myself and and give myself the best chance to make it to the NFL right and it's okay if I don't play right away I can be patient because look what Jeremiah did he kind of was the number two only rush for 385 as a freshman Chad Daren in his first two years only 284 or two was it 286 last year uh to what was his number last year I can't believe I'm forgetting this where where was let me see jadarian Price Rushing he was at 272 last year and but they kicked stuck him back on kick returns and he averaged over 34 yards a kick had a big return you know they found a way to use those guys and then when audri left they slide right into that role and then when those guys leave kin and Nia slide right into that role you part of what worked for Bama so well for so many years and why they could get five-star kids that you knew were going to sit for two years and they knew they were going to sit for two years and be happy about it is because they knew I don't have to be a four-year starter at Alabama I can be a one-year starter and I'm going to be a first or second round draft pick yeah and that helps as well I mean that's why so many noted aim offensive linemen over the years were willing to sign knowing they were going to sit for a couple years I remember talking to Liam mikenberg and he was telling me how Urban Meers one of his pitches to try to get you know Liam to go to Ohio state was you're going to get a play right away for us and he was like but I don't want to play right away because he had bought in to coach he's pitch that you're going to come here you're going to sit behind you know Mike mcglinch and Alex bars and and then when your time comes you're going to have been groomed by some Elite lineman and that's Liam was like that sounds good and that's exactly what happened Liam didn't start until his third year 2018 and then he's a threeyear starter and an All-American on his own in a second round pick I mean like when that track record is established then guys are going to be more willing to say I'm going to go pee part of a loaded Back Field knowing that my number one they're going to use a lot of guys and number two even if I have to you know be a number two or number three for a year be successful and then the pitch that D McCulla can have too is look you don't want to be a guy that goes to college and carries the ball a thousand times in three years NFL teams nowadays aren't going to like that they don't want all that tread being put on your tires and and so you come here you have two years of being a good rotation guy one year as a breakout starter next thing you know boom you're in the National Football League as a high draft pick so there's a lot of that can they can sell if the results on the field match it and that's the thing that's helping them recruiting is like look guys like Josh Adams guys like Kiren Williams guys like Dexter Williams they laid the foundation for the present because they showed you can go to Notre Dame rush for a thousand be part of teams are going to play in the postseason and and and have the production and that laid the foundation it made it easier to land Chris Tyree it made it easier to land audri EST and Logan Diggs it made it easier to land jadarian price and Jeremiah Love and those and kedron young and those type of guys because they can now visualize hey I know what it looks like to a th yard back in Notre Dame I just watched it I watched kyen Williams sit the bench an entire season come out the next year and take over the starting role and rush for thousand yards kyn went from six carries in 2019 to back-to-back thousand yard seasons right heck they even had a guy move from receiver and rush for a thousand yards not that long ago you know what I mean so the the results have to have to match for the recruiting pitch to really be effective and I think that's a big thing that's really helped is is even though I said what I said earlier about Kiron and it's true Trevor he was a very good back not an elite back in college yeah he was still really fun to watch and watching him produce I believe showed Logan dig showed audri ese showed those guys that I can go to Notre Dame and if he can do that and run a 458 at the combine what could I do and and and that's part like so Kiren to me was part of laying that foundation for why the roster is what it is now and then of of course you know hiring competent coaches who don't mind recruiting always helps you know what I mean and that was that was a difference as well yeah absolutely and and almost on the flip side of that coin one one thing that the coaching staff now in comparison to previous regimes that they do well is there is some aspect of you you do recruit high octane caliber players with that high ceiling now they're comfortable saying Hey listen I'm not going to say that you're going to go out and get a hundred carries this year but what I can say is you can help our team in a positive way and you will see the field in some capacity I mean think of Jeremiah Love yes he um he would come in in some relief situations almost like a change of pace back he also had a fake punt uh run against Duke you know kind of keep the offensive momentum alive on the first drive of the game for them so you know their commitment to saying hey come here you will have your time right to your point we've seen it with Kiren Williams we seen it with these former players that kind of had to wait their turn to to show what their true abilities were but we will find ways to get you onto the field to help us in some capacity which which I think is another game changer I mean Alabama you referenced earlier they do it too right they they they did it for years I mean there's that one iconic picture where in one room they had TJ yelon and Alvin Kamar and Derrik Henry and all of these guys and you know I guess it also helps when you're beating opponents 59 to zero everybody can see the field at that point I might have gotten some but Trevor can't Notre Dame now kind of sell that based on last year absolutely guys we scored over 40 points nine times last year we beat won 10 games nine of those wins were by at least 21 points you know so that's a that's a great point is that yeah you're still going to get a play and you were referencing that you know Jeremiah and jaran having a role to put some some data to the point you're making last year Jeremiah had 681 total yards last year see only had 272 rushing and he had 65 receiving but he had 344 kick return yards they found a way to have him make an impact Jeremiah Love last season had 504 yards 385 rushing 77 receiving and 42 kick returns so your two running backs who were clear number two and three to your 13008 touchdown rushing running back still combined for almost 12200 yards left last season in various ways that that's exactly to your point of they can show you and that's what happened in the holdz era is guys would find other things to do until their time came hey Ricky Waters what do you want to do start at receiver or be our fourth string running back take your pick and so he went out was a starter and had a huge impact I mean you know Ricky wasn't a running back in 1988 but I don't know that they beat Michigan if he doesn't have that 81 yard punt return and started to start that game was the only touchdown they scored the whole game he was able to still have an impact and when you're selling that and you're winning it makes it easier to keep that recruiting for you know going and and that's the thing is that's going to be key about this team even more so than last year is I want to see if this staff can find a way to utilize more than one back as a focal point of the offense Mike Den Brock's never in my opinion never had the type of Tandem he's going to have now because you could argue in 2015 he could have if Toran doesn't go down sure but did we really know what CJ prosise was yet at that time going into the season as a converted receiver I don't I don't know that we did but going into a season with this type of depth of talent I he's never he had a heck of an explosive running back at Cincinnati and Jerome Ford but there was a big drop off between Jerome Ford and who was number two as his number threes were you know LSU last year had a lot of good backs but you know Logan Diggs was your kind of your number one he was number two at Notre Dame and then there was a big drop off you know from from from him to you know where where potentially noted aim can be in in future Seasons so that's the other thing too is we've got to see if this this coaching staff can figure out how to use these guys without getting them out of rhythm and that's a Challen that's easier said than done that's oh you got these four running backs use them yeah that's fine but running backs need to get into a rhythm of a game and it can be hard to do that when you've got four different guys playing a lot of snaps so it's a challenge and and that's going to be something that we're going to have to find out if the staff could do that could be sort of that final piece to this puzzle so to speak I'm optimistic they will but they're still a level two that I mean Trevor you you played football you understand what I'm talking about it's you you can't just say it's this is an NCA 2000 you know CFB 2025 right where you just put your next running back in because and and he's just gonna be just as good because you're the one who's got the eyes in that game not the player and and that's something that they're going to have to to figure out how do you rotate these guys and how do you use them all while making sure that they can also get into a rhythm of the game which is I think very important for a running back and that's that's where we have at least I have very full confidence in in D Mulla and as a coach when you have that much of a loaded running back room you kind of have to know when to keep somebody and when to pull them at the right moments sure there's certain down and distance scenarios that you know you you would want to keep a certain guy in over another you know I mean Jabron Payne was almost like the third down back last year it felt like um but I I think to your point letting somebody get in the rhythm is is so important and knowing when to ride that out and don't just change up Personnel for the sake of saying all right defense how are you gonna stop us this time it's like well they couldn't stop the previous guy so let's you know slow up on the Reigns a little bit and see if we can get them into a rhythm I agree for sure so that's kind of where we are Trevor I would say my conclusion is Notre Dame has snuck up on the rest of college football when it comes to production at running back you going back to 2017 Notre Dame has had a SE they had a thousand yard rusher in 17 18 and 19 they did not because for different reasons and it came down to their leading backs missing time 20 21 they had a a thousand- yard rusher you look at the Twan combination in the production they had in 17 or I mean excuse me 2022 I what I'm going to be curious about is is is it going to be Sim this year's product going to be similar to that nobody gets to a thousand but they both have a bunch or does one of them kind of emerge as more of the primary Runner and go over thousand that's going to be interesting to see but I think none of them is snuck up on the rest of college football at running back and are on the verge of kind of like somebody said Aon Sports who you know my my Irish brown.com website's a ated with released their 20 top backfields in college football you have Notre name in it like I I'm looking at the preseason magazines I don't think any of them had no Dame in the top 10 I think that's going to change by season's end but the reason for that in my opinion is because no Dame doesn't have that track record at running back I think that's starting to change and that's why I say we're not in that Golden Age yet but my prediction is it begins in 2024 I think that's when they kick the door down and say hey this team's recruiting running back as well as any many country no not many teams can lose audri estimate and come out the next year and you're like they're actually more dangerous now than they were last year because nobody's got aldri size and power but they're way faster than what they were last year way more explosive and and and oh by the way now you have a quarterback you have to deal with who's a pretty good athlete as well which audri didn't have that last year if you wanted to crash the backs out on audri have had it because there was no answers for Notre Dame there will be answers now and that's going to make this group even more dangerous yeah I mean like how we talked about how you know joshh Adams and Dexter Williams they they started to build out the foundation CJ prosise for Notre Dame being a relevant school for you know a a top I would call it a top destination for for highly touted running back recruits to go to I think audri EST is kind of laying that foundation for that golden age that we're talking about that kind of introduces Notre Dame to that next level of hey yes we've had some solid guys before in the past we've had some guys go off to the league like k Williams rushed for over a thousand yards last year just through 12 games in a 17 Game season and that was a guy who I mean you could make the argument that Jeremiah Love and jarian price from a skill set perspective have a higher ceiling than kyen Williams ever did and that's no knock on Kiron he was fantastic back toback a thousand yard seasons I think he racked up like 29 rushing touchdowns in two years um between 2020 and 2021 but I think audri esman what he did last year Year to your point of we have a 1300 yard rusher and an 18 rushing touchdown guy leave and we are at the very minimum staying at the same level an argument could be made for we are getting better which I know we'll get into here later today but um it's exciting stuff to see and think about that's going to do it for this segment of the show we got more coming up so don't go anywhere but before we do get to part two do me a favor folks do hit that like button hit the Subscribe button hit hit the notification Bell share this podcast give us a festar review on your podcast platforms of choice and of course if you have not done so sign out for the message board at boards breakdown. comom first perk Trevor got was his membership that he paid for got turned into a comp membership that's one of the perks of being here you don't have to pay to post on the sites you work for so that's that's always a good thing right I'm not that cheap so uh definitely want to sign up for that boards. breakdown. comom definitely check that out uh tons and tons of great conversation coming up and as we get closer and closer to the season so before we get into part two of today's show couple quick things people number one a reminder tonight's IB Nation Sports Talk will not start until 6 o'clock uh Shawn and Vince will be with you guys tonight but there's a little bit of a scheduling snafu that came about that they'll probably talk to you about tonight that I just wanted to uh to kind of dive into and just make sure that you guys uh are aware 6:00 pm start time tonight for I Nation Sports Talk we also had a couple super chats Pete Weber gave a Super Chat thank you very much for that Pete he says Trevor Has a great radio voice welcome aboard um yeah yeah no I I I appreciate it I haven't uh never really thought about a career in in radio but um I'm sure I'm sure Lauren my fiance may or may not disagree with you but I think that's just because she listens to me talk too much um but I appreciate that uh also uh my my guy Raymond Hitman hurt my feelings a little bit he said he followed that up response so with Brian has a face for radio which I kind of kind of stung a little bit there Raymond that stung a little I'm not gonna lie to you uh Super Chat from as1 12321 am I coping by thinking thank you for the Super Chat my friend am I coping by thinking offense winning the Jersey scrimmage is a positive sign on the o line can't imagine o wins if the o line couldn't somewhat handle a great the line well it could mean that I don't want to say for sure that it does because it could also mean something that I don't think enough people are putting putting a conversation into which is if you have an offensive line that's just okay or struggling when you have a quarterback like Riley Leonard in the kind of Versatility the notame has a running back which you just talked about there's a lot of things you can do to spread teams out and also take advantage of an aggressive defensive line and a blitzing team and and Notre Dame didn't have those options last year they have those options this year but look Notre Dame lost the Jersey scrimmage in the spring they won it in the fall I mean that that's not an end all Beall and doesn't determine anything but it's it's not a bad sign that they now won the Jersey scrimmage you know what I mean and and the and the scoring is the same in the spring as it was in the fall and and so obviously that's a an improvement I think what it shows is that you know Notre Dame's offensive line is not going to be elite this year but it's I don't think it's GNA suck like I think a lot of people think it's going to suck like this is not going to be the 2021 offensive line in my opinion this isn't going to be some of the lines from past year like 07 this is going to be like 070 line the difference between this line and that line is this line actually has a lot of talent it's just not as experienced and experience on the old line is incredibly important that's why I don't think it's going to be a great offensive line either but it's it's better than what I think a lot of people are are giving it credit for and look Trevor I I said this yesterday my biggest beef one of my big beefs of Joe Rudolph but the one at the Bigg at the top was I felt he went with the safe choices too often in the starting lineup he should have played Billy shra more last year he didn't he went with the older safer choices and I criticized him for it how am I now going to criticize him because he's going with the T more talented guys over the more experienced guys right I've said consistently if it's close between a veteran player and a younger guy that's got significantly more Talent if all the other things are close you go with the more talented player in my opinion the more experienced guys is here and the more talented guys here from their development then you go with that like that's why gerby Lambert's not starting people I've talked to have said this kid has got first round NFL draft pick written all over him he's just not ready yet he's not it's not close between him and the other guys with Anthony knp it is with Sam Pendleton and SVA naire it is so that's why they're in that battle and if it's close and all the the assignment stuff you go with the more talented player because Pat huggan and Roco Spindler and Tosh Baker aren't going to get better with more playing more games they are what they are these young guys have a chance to get better and so I'm not going to criticize the guy for doing exactly what I to asked him to do last year now it's unfortunate that you're having to do this everywhere on your offensive line because you're gonna be so young but I you know again it's it's they're they're putting their best foot forward from a talent standpoint and that always is going to say hey look you're going to take some lumps early but you're doing it because they're thinking once we get to games 8 through 12 then in the postseason this line gives us the best chance after they've kind of gone through some Growing Pains of helping this team be the best it can be in the second half of the year and in the postseason yeah absolutely I'm I'm very encouraged at the fact that we are as a program putting emphasis on skill and potential and and taking their ceiling into uh into account before we just throw the older guy in there right um to your point if the older guy is the best fit you know like the gerby Lambert situation sure absolutely I think pertaining to this super chat I think and and I I struggle with this too a lot is until we see it in week one we kind of have to live in the world of gray which is so tough right I mean we hear one good thing about the offensive line and then on one hand you got man the O Line's actually going to be 10 times better than what we thought and then on the flip side of the coin it's well what does that mean about the dline does that mean they're bad now yeah not going to get the pass brush that we need I think that both could be false but I think it's living in that world of gray right based on how the message board has been acting the last couple days I think the answer is going to be well now I'm worried about the dline they're going to be terrible now you know that's kind of I think where some people are they're just kind of hitting that panic mode a little bit as The Season's right around the corner but we're going to see how how that plays out so but no it's not a negative there there's in practicality there's nothing negative about the Notre offense winning the Jersey scrimmage especially since the context is they lost it in the spring and last fall with a with Joe Walt and Blake fiser they also barely won the Jersey scrimmage last year too and you know so and and I think this defense is ahead of where they were a year ago so I think it's a good sign so that's a that's just something to consider we have another Super super chat but it's going to be uh it's it it plays into our next topic so I'll bring that up here uh as we get a little bit closer to that so we we'll bring that up as we as as we go so that's uh that's going to kind of conclude that little segue part two of today's show Trevor let's dive into this is the topic that I think is going to be the most fun to talk about and we're going to talk over the next little bit about the noted a 2024 team in relation to to where they were last year and then to a degree with some of these topics where they've been in previous seasons and this for me is where my optimism comes from because when I look at this football team and I think about where they were a year ago and not just in Fall camp but then how the season played out I I I think what's what some fans might be missing is that while they will be less experienced in certain positions this is a far more talented football team in my opinion and we're seeing the fruits of the Marcus Freeman recruiting Bowden recruiting Mike mickens recruiting Al Washington and Mike Elston to a degree recruiting with some of the younger guys but but what Al Washington has done in recent years D McCulla and and Harry hean is an offensive line recruiter for his one class and then of course what Joe Rudolph has done as a recruiter as well I think we're going to see the fruits of that start to shine this year so what we're going to do in this next segment we're going to begin with the offense and then go to the defense and discuss where we believe Notre Dame is better and not as good as they were a year ago and and and it's it's just we're going to leave that as open as possible we're not going to narrow it too much so we can convince ourselves to get the answers that we want we're going to leave it as open as possible and then one thing we will do we did have a super chat from Raymond titman and answer this Raymond even though you made me a little sad earlier with your comments uh but he said Brian when you compare last year to this year can you give a key stat to watch for uh to measure whether your predictive analysis was right I'll do that when I can Raymond but a lot of it's just going to come down to some of it will be statistical but you could be better statistically in a place and not be as good as an offense you know I I don't know that last year's offense was as good as 2015's but they averaged more yards per pass attempt and averaged you know uh they didn't average more yards per rush they were almost identical in yards per play they averaged more points per game but if you were to ask me if I have to go you know play Ohio State do I want the 15 offense or the 23 offense I'm taking the 15 offense right so stats don't always tell you the story because there's a lot of other context that goes into it but I will do my best in certain areas where I think the statistics will measure and this is really going to come into play for two positions for me running back a linebacker and so I'll do my best to provide that when I can but like I don't expect Riley Leonard to have as as good of a a yards per pass attempt number as what Sam Hartman did last year for a host of reasons so uh but I think he'll be more impactful because I I think the offense is going to be different so we will provide that Raymond when we can and I do appreciate the Super Chat on that but we're going to begin with the offense Trevor and we're going to talk about we're going to go position by position and then wrap it up with overall and of course the place to begin is at quarterback and so when we talk about better is the current group better than last year it there's really three aspects to it number one is obviously the starter that matters more than the depth the starter's important you don't just say well they've got their four is better than last year's four but there's this huge gap at number one well guess what then you know then that may be last year's group is better depth doesn't always equal better if the if the guy from previous was that much better than who they have now the depth is important though and we'll talk about that and when we talk about better it's going to come down to how do you impact the game can this group impact the game greater than last year's group group and and so that's what we're going to kind of get into and it starts at quarterback and you go from Sam Hartman Steve angelli and Kenny minchie last year to Riley Leonard Steve angelli Kenny minchie and CJ Carr this year and so Trevor to begin when you look at the quarterback room tell me which one you think is better and then why you think it's better or not as good as of right now as what the room was how it played out last season sure uh I guess starting with the starter uh the guy under center now I like this year's starter Riley Leonard better than where we were at last year for a host of reasons simply put I think he's a more Dynamic playmaker um that is something that Notre Dame has been lacking at the quarterback position for a while I think they might have found that in Riley Leonard um again we'll see it here in about 10 days or so but who's ing I am but uh you know I I think in comparison to last year there were a lot of expectations with Sam Hartman coming into the season based off of what he did at Wake Forest and then when you break it down different styles of offense you know um different Cadence style um and in interviews before Riley Leonard said that there's a lot of similarities with what he did at Duke you know coming into now what he's doing with Den Brock so starting with the starter um I like where we're at and then the quarterback room as a whole I would say I would take this year's as well because not only do I think the ceiling was raised I think the floor has been raised too um with the addition of CJ Carr um and just it's another year of development that that Kenny and Steve of both had and I think that I would take the 2024 quarterback room over over where we had it last year I think of in terms of if Riley Leonard were to go down I am more com aable this year than in comparison to if Sam Hartman gets hurt last year I think there's a lot more questions of well what do we do um and that's where I'm at it's inter the dynamic of of what happened after each player committed to Notre Dame is is has to factor into this and when Sam committed to not Dame the expectation was he was going to play for Tommy Ree and I think he would have performed better in the Tommy ree offense than he did in Jared Parker's offense for a number of reasons and that's not saying Jared Parker was better or worse it's just different it's about style fit Riley Leonard committed to Notre Dame I [Music] believe I believe it was before Jared Parker left and and then of course he leaves and Mike Den Brock arrives the big difference is is Mike Den Brock is a much better fit for Riley Leonard than what Jared Parker's offense would have been and so I think that dynamic plays into it but but I'll be honest Trevor I mean there's no question that Riley Leonard is going to be better than what Sam Hartman was last year I mean if if all Riley Leonard does is repeat what he did in 2022 he's a better quarterback than what Sam Hartman was for Notre Dame last year I mean it and it and it's honestly not really that close when when you look at what Sam did last year now I think a lot of what happened with Sam last year was outside his control and I've talked a lot about that I don't really care to get into that again some of it was on him some of it was bad luck some of it was a lot of other things but you know last year Sam Hartman passed for 2689 yards and completed 63.5% of his passes and had 24 touchdowns and eight picks rushed for 123 yards and three touchdowns so he averaged 234. three yards of offense per game and averaged you know just he was just a he was a good steady solid quarterback when you look at Riley Leonard Riley Leonard passed for 2967 yards now that was in one more game in what Sam played he had 20 touchdowns and six picks not a whole lot different from what Sam did although he had a higher completion percentage he was at 63.8 Sam was at 63.5 the difference is here Sam Hartman rushed for as I mentioned 123 yards and three touchdowns Riley Leonard rushed for 699 yards and touchdowns Sam Hartman last season you had 2,812 total yards and 27 total touchdowns he averaged 234. three yards per game Riley Leonard had 3,666 yards of offense 33 touchdowns and average 282 yards per game than what Sam Hartman did last year and I don't see any scenario in which Riley Leonard is less productive at Notre aame than he was at Duke in 2022 you can complain all you want about the offensive line but even with the offensive line perceived issues he still is going to have a significantly better Supporting Cast around him than he did at Duke in 2022 he's also gonna have a better defense at Notre Dame than he had at Duke in 2022 now the 2023 Duke offense defense was very good it's still not as good as not Dames but it's very good but he didn't have that in 2022 they were a solid defense and and any defense that Mike Elko has is going to be solid but you saw against the the offenses with more talent that they'd give up a lot more points that that there's just that's just was is facts so The Supporting Cast is going to be better I think that's really what it comes down to for me when a starter you Sam Hartman is not as good of a player as Riley Leonard and I'll be honest I mean anyone that knows my opinion on Sam Hartman versus Riley Leonard I expected Sam Hartman to be better last year but I I've always felt Riley Leonard was the better quarterback you could just go back and watch those two guys go at it in 2022 when Sam Hartman or Ry leard outd Sam Hartman in a in a Duke win over Wake Forest and you see how he impacts the game differently and and that's something that notame needs desperately needs in my opinion this season so the starter alone makes it better but as you mentioned the depth chart not only is CJ here Trevor but Steve Angeli's a year older and Kenny minch's a year older so they're both better versions of themselves last year if they if they remain two and three and CJ's stays four and he's on scout team all year it's still better if CJ Carr wouldn't have signed with Notre name it'd still be better because you'd have the same two and three but they're both now a year older and so I think all those things factor into why to me quarterback is in a much better position and and and the final thing is last year you had a quarterback that was dependent upon what happened around him as good as Sam Hartman was he needed the line to block for him and he needed the receivers to catch the ball and he needed the receivers to get open and those type of things Riley Leonard doesn't always need that and that's an element as you mentioned that nerame needs and now has a quarterback and I also think they're in a they're in a better position to win if he goes down than they were last year to win if Sam went down and you had sophomore version of Steve Angeli and freshman version of Kenny minchie you're now better off with junior year version of St Steve angelli who started a bowl game threw for 700 yards last year you're in a much better position now to win with him now than you were a year ago same thing is true as Kenny mchie and then you throw CJ into the mix and it's very obvious the quarterback to me is in a much better position than it was a year ago and and so I think that's a no-brainer this one is going to be a little different this is a little bit more debate debatable running back you've got audri you you had audri last year you lose him he's now gone you had Jeremiah Love last year he's now a year older jaran's a year older jabr Bron's out you add Devin Ford still there you add kedin young and anas Williams so just there's a lot of ways to look at it you lose audri and you lose Jabron you add kedrin and you add anas which room is better this one's this one was tough for me um because it's it's tough to say that the running back room gets better when you are losing 18 rushing touchdowns for me call it a copout answer I'm not gonna say they are better I think that they are deeper um in that they have like we had talked about before in the previous segment is there's now four guys realistically that can come in and contribute in a multitude of different ways um but like I said it's just hard for me to say that it is better after losing somebody like audri um but I do think that the ceiling is higher I guess if that makes sense because of the different ways that they can contribute that would be that would be my answer for for how to look at the rooms in comparison 203 to 24 I've been back and forth on this one Trevor yesterday on the message board somebody asked or two days ago when this conversation happened I said running back was better and then I was like no it's not better and then I'm back to yes it is better and I'm back to I think it's kind of a wash and I and I and I that's why I'm having a hard time saying better or worse I will say this it's better than where it was a year ago at this time we thought audri was going to break out we didn't know for sure you didn't quite know where jarian price was healthwise you didn't know what he's going to be able to provide you didn't know what J jadarian was going or Jeremiah was going to do so I feel better about the running back room today than I did on August 20th of 2023 after the season played out and how good audri was it's a much tougher call I think you are correct they are deeper this year of guys ready to play are they better that's a much tougher question to ask they're more they're less established but they're more Dynamic which one matters more they're not as big as they were last year but they're more explosive I mean so there's Every Time I Think of well this is Advantage 2023 I have a counter to 2024 every time I think 2024 is going to be better I've it countered to 2023 one thing that that that is going to be very interesting is is you mentioned the touchdown thing last year Notre Dame some of the mistakes they made like you had two fourth Downs against Ohio State and neither time your start running back touch the ball right like like that's a m that was a coaching mistake you I felt better about Notre Dame lining up on Third and one second and one goal line situations saying they're going to get it touchdown because of not just audri but also Jabron when in his situations I mean you know he's the one that caught that I mean behind his back tough throw touchdown against USC Jabron was a pretty good Red Zone guy as well yep that's gonna could po how well they can fill that void if I had more confidence in that I knew the answer to that I'd probably go with 2024 because that's a very that's a difference between field goals and touchdowns I mean you your guys were Dynamic and inside the five but once you got inside to five you weren't as good of course you now you have the the Riley Leonard fact of that as well which adds to it but that third and short and and goal to go situations is going to ultimately determine the difference because I think this group's going to be more explosive this group is going to be uh more Dynamic this group is going to be much more impactful in the past game than last year's running back room but will this group will this room be as good at getting the tough yards when the offensive line was not playing well last year audri could still get his can this group do that those are the things that are going to determine what that answer is Trevor because again I I could sit there and tell y'all right now it's the 24 group and I promise you we're going to be midway through tight ends I'm gon thinking man I should probably change my answer and rectify that you know what I mean like that's what I've been the last two days so uh I don't know that I have a good answer here I it's kind of a wash for me and but I think it's got the potential to be a lot better as a group but I think it's far from given because of what we knew about what audri brought to the table I think another thing too that I want to factor in is is the scheme that the running backs would be playing in I think that's kind of a an unsung thing looking at it Apples to Apples it's so tough to say well who would you rather have audri or Jeremiah it's like well they're both respectively great at two of the things that they need them to do if I were to say you know what the offense this year is going to be very Pro style we're lining up with two tight ends and we're running it downhill yeah I'm going to go with audri I mean because the dude was a load you know he was 230 pounds and was getting six yards a carry you know half the time on accident just because he he couldn't be stopped whereas if you were to ask me hey we're going to spread it out this year we're going to run a little bit more Tempo we need the running backs to be able to catch out of the back field we might send some in motion would you rather have Jeremiah Love or rudri my answer would be Jeremiah Love so I I do think scheme play a little bit of a factor in that now I think it's tough to like I said compare it even and just taking two players and say who would you rather have but for their respective systems if I were to give a hardcut answer I would say I would take this running back room in 2024 for the system that we have in 2024 and that's probably where I'll cut it even uh that's I like that I like that and you know last year we did see those two young guys look pretty good in some of the bigger moments and you sometimes often wonder why didn't they do that more you know Jeremiah averaged over seven yards a carry against Ohio State Le year he looked good he only car he only had eight eight touches though that was that was the problem right like he should have maybe touched a little bit more and audri should have touched a little bit more jarian with what he did against USC and so I'm very I'll say this this is a no-brainer I cannot wait to see if this group can be better because I think it's going to be a fun group to watch this next one is going to be a little bit easier wide receiver completely different group than it was a year ago completely different group no Rico Flores no Tobias Merryweather no Chris Tyrie Dion KY was a regular the beginning of the Season before injuries and Chancey Stucky kind of ruined his season you have no brillan James is the young potential standout and we did not know a whole lot about Jordan FaZe on at this time of year ago fast forward to a year a lot all those guys are gone you you welcome the two the three freshman into the team cam Williams michah Gilbert Logan Sate that'd be exciting enough in my opinion and now you add Chris Mitchell out of the portal Bo Collins out of the portal and Jaden Harrison out of the portal plus now you have sophomore versions of Jaden greous and Jordan fison and Jaden Thomas and Deon KY I know the answer I'm pretty sure I know the answer which room is better the 24 receivers or the 23 receivers 20 24 receivers and and to your point this was not that hard of a decision to make I mean I think the overall the overall potential of this room is better you're adding more additional experience with Chris Mitchell and and Bo Collins and Jaden Harrison the young guys have gotten better and the newcomers and the three freshman I think that could see legitimate minutes this year um the thing I like about this receiving room is is it's very Diversified in in their skill sets I felt like last year they had like six guys that could all do the same thing right um and and this year you have kind of your segmented groups they almost have their own verticals if you will I mean you have your deep threat guys you have KK Smith and you have um Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell and then you have your boundary receivers kind of your guys that they're not going to torch anybody but they could be your go-to guys they're going to be open in the middle of the field and Jaden Thomas and and Bo Collins and and Jaden greous you know and then you have your quick Speedy slot guys and you know that can make moves in the open field with with Faison and and with Jaden Harrison who I've been seeing getting reps in in Fall camp in the slot so I I think that this year everything is more Diversified and everything has been geared towards making this offense so multifaceted that it's just going to be almost impossible to game plan for him which I love so short answer 2024 receiving this is Irish breakdown we don't do short answers and uh agree completely I think the diversity point you've talked about Trevor I've hammered that all summer I think that's a great point you have and and here's why that matters it number one it gives you different ways to attack teams but again when you have the same group of players they may be great one week when you're playing a team that's not geared towards being able to defend that type of thing when I talked about this in 2018 one of the reasons that the off pass offense had some issues against Clemson even though I thought the receivers were open more than they than they got the ball uh what it came down to you had two big guys for Notre Dame and Clemson had two corners and Trayvon Mullen and AJ Terrell who could handle big guys better than anybody else that they played and so that window was smaller and Ian book didn't feel comfortable throwing into it now I thought the receivers played well but the windows looked way different for Ian and he couldn't pull the trigger wouldn't pull the trigger and so now you say okay well if you're playing a team that's like got a bunch of five nine Corners that who can't hey maybe we see combinations where bow and Jaden Thomas and michah Gilbert are on the field together you know or they're playing a team that's got some big corners but they're kind of not real Shifty and so all of a sudden we're seeing a lot more of Chris Mitchell and KK and Jordan Jaden great house and Jordan fate you can match up differently and and to teams that can take one thing away you have answers in other areas and we haven't even talked about the tight end room and how that's going to impact the pass game and how these guys are going to complement that the final piece for me Trevor is just what we know last year I thought the receiving cord was going to be better than it was I think it was better than it was meaning there were more opportunities there that should have worked had the coaching been better or the quarterback play been better or the o line play been better and and we'll we'll we'll get into that here as we get into the season but it still wasn't as good as it could have been because you were dealing with a lot of ifs if this guy can help you as a freshman if this guy can play if this guy steps up if this guy can be healthy if Jaden Thomas would have been healthy last year he would have had a 50 plus catch 700 yard season why do I say that how do I know that because that's what he did in every game that he was healthy I mean that's just what Jaden Thomas does you know actually I'm gonna I'm gonna do that math here real trick real quick Trevor because I I want I want to make this point like you knew that's who Jaden Thomas was so let's see here he had see that's 12 catches there 16 catches divided by five games equals time 13 so that's 42 catches his yards so he had 188 yards plus 59 yards you divide that by five equals times 13 so he would have had 42 catches for 642 yards last year if he would have just kept the production he had when he was healthy and that includes being completely shut out against Cy state right like that's who T Jaden Thomas is but there was always the if he can stay healthy we talked about if if Dion K he can say Dion looked pretty good in the opener against Navy and then he was never healthy again and he got into Chancey stuck he dogghouse which is actually a place I'd rather be uh knowing how he was I'm actually kind of feel I probably did something right if I'm in Chancey stuck Stucky Dog dog house but there was always these ifs if if if if if with this group The if is simply if Chris Mitchell is exactly who he was at FIU if Bo Collins is only what he was at Clemson if Jaden Tom great house is just if he is just the same guy he was last year these ifs are more determined it's I mean every team has ifs I mean you could say well yeah Ohio State's going to be good if all the guys that were really good last year play as good as they were you know this year well sure everybody's got those ifs I mean you think Denzel Burke is g to play as well as he did last year you think Caleb Williams they got to prove it but it's it's they're established you kind of assume that's going to be the case you know Notre Dame has over 900 yards receiving coming back from last year on its current roster they had over 2,000 receiving yards transfer in that's what it boils down to far more established group for my far more diverse group and a group with a lot more speed somebody you know John A1 one of our best posters kind of said okay well look if you look at it position by position you say okay well Chris Tyrese faster than Jane greous right and and I forget what the other one he said this guy's faster than that guy but I'm like you look at it and you say you know Tobias Mary weathers faster than uh Bo Collins is what he said I'm like well first of all Tobias is not playing that position Tobias is playing where Chris Mitchell plays and he's not faster than Chris Mitchell yes Chris Tyree is faster than Jaden greous but here's the way I look at it you look at the top five speed guys Chris Mitchell Jaden Harrison KK Smith cam Williams and who was the fifth guy that I brought up I can't I can't remember the fifth guy was Jordan fison I said you take those five and you compare those to the top five speed guys last year and it's not even close it it's the overall level of speed that they bring to the table it it's it's this it's not even close like this receiving core now to where what it's not even close now they gotta prove this and that and the I I get all that but it's not close the receiving core is significantly better and proven right now than it was a year ago at this time and then with how it played out I I I think that's an easy one yeah yeah absolutely the ifs have nothing to do with their ability to play football which is great I mean it's you know if they can to your point um if they can perform like we know that they can like we have seen before but in previous years it's you know if Tobias can adjust to playing at the BigTime level you know if Chris Tyrie can make the transition from running back to wide receiver a lot of it was based on their ability to play the position and that's been eliminated this year in this receiving room there's always going to be what ifs you know but that's that's what's the most promising and then you combine that with the speed yeah yeah we're cooking last year if Jaden Thomas was healthy they're pretty good there if not they're in trouble yeah this year if Jaden Thomas is not healthy that's fine you got Bo Collins you've got Deion KY you've got Micah Gilbert you could move cam Williams over there I mean you could move Jordan Fon they've done a lot of different things with that position so that's another difference if Jordan Jaden great house gets injured and and can't playing the slot you've got Jordan faon you've got Jaden Harrison that that's a big difference between this year and last year is if such and such Doesn't happen you're still fine and last year if this doesn't happen you were in trouble if Jaden great Thomas goes down again it it messed up your whole room if Tobias Maryweather doesn't break out it messes up your whole room and when those things happen that receiving core was doomed this group is not going to be as doomed let's move on over to tight end it's basically the same guys they had last year except now you've added Kevin Balman we'll see if he can be healthy and you've added Jack Larson but there's some guys that are coming off some injy so there's a lot of different ways to look at this let's just Dive Right In Trevor what say you about the tight end room compared to where it was based on how last season played out uh I would say for me my opinion is it's it's the same for the simple fact of you have the same people coming back I would air on the side of it is better um because we finally got to see what Mitchell Evans is like when he can be a premier guy um but unfortunately in comparison to last year he's coming off of an injury um Eli ridan same thing um I like Cooper Flanigan he is one of those guys that is kind of raising the floor of the room because he has another year under his belt um but simple answer for me is I'm I'm putting it uh I'm putting it as the same for right now I'm gonna push back on one part of that Mitchell Evans was actually injured last year the difference was he didn't get injured during the season he got injured in the spring so that's but that's kind of the concern though right is can he stay healthy and it's more of a concern now than it maybe was a concern a year ago because last year's injury was kind of his first injury you know significant injury now he's had two so I think it's fair to say oh I think the injury thing is is fair to say even though he was injured going into last season and kind of had to be brought along slowly which is partly why he got off to a slow start last year it's because he did miss a big chunk of the offseason like he did this year we got to find out if he's able to overcome that Trevor and I think a good point is Eli ran going to be back to his old form he missed a chunk of last season they they've been they limited his reps in the spring to your point the reason I'm going to say it's better is because I think those things everything you said is true but you're now in a position where if Cooper Flanigan has to be called upon now he's way better prepared to handle that than he was a year ago you also have Jack Larson now you don't want to have to play Jack Larson you wanton a red shirt but he's in a better position so and I also think that Mitchell Evans got that necessary valuable experience last year that he didn't have now so so what I would say is if we're going to talk about where this room is now compared to it was a year ago it's definitely better what you're saying I believe is that based on what happened in 2023 and what was proven that it's a wash is that fair to say if you if I were to ask you Trevor how about compared to where the room is now compared to where it was a year ago at this time would your answer be different I would I I would say I I I think I would still lean on more of a wash honestly yeah I would only because I in my mind the way that I view it is I I look at it and see okay they've had the proven production now the other side of that coin is not they didn't last year going into the season gotcha only had like like if what I be more clear because I don't think I answered the question correctly based on your answer if we were to look at what would your answer be compared to where the tight end room was a year ago today so Mitchell only has three career catches you know he's come you know Eli has what one career catch Cooper is a true freshman not not how the season played out but so because my thought is it's a no-brainer compared to where it is now compared to where it was a year ago before the season started gotcha but obviously how the season played out ended up being a pretty good room and I actually I misspoke too you had Holden Stace a year ago last year which I forgot about as well to factor into your to your thing and you don't have him now so I did forget about holding States yeah that was that was my bad I misunderstood what you meant taking it to first show together man we're gonna have a couple bumps in the road you're good buddy um no I appreciate that I mean it's uh yes taking it where it was at last year today versus now I'm taking this tight end room absolutely um for sure but uh but yeah that's uh overarching if it were taking it from today a year ago to right now I'm taking this year's tight end room all things factored out I'm kind of calling it a wash um and then uh and then seeing for me it's a big show me what happens when the season starts I got to know Mitchell Evans is a proven production and people nationally recognize him as being one of the top returning tight ends I just want to be sure before I go out and say this tight end room will for sure be better that we can overcome the injuries for the two main starting guys but I do agree with your point if Cooper fan has to be tight end one I'm a lot more confident this year than if that was the case last year yeah because last year your third tight end was Cooper Flanigan because Eli ran was out Eli didn't start playing till almost halfway through the season because he was coming off of his own injury yep so I very fair point I it it's going to be interesting to see how this is not about this discussion this is just a side note it's going to be interesting to see how the how the emergence of the receiving core if it happens impacts the tight end room because if the receiving CT is as much improved as you and I think it's going to be you have to defend this tight end room way different that that doesn't factor into the discussion we just had it's just more of a general observation of this team and this position because this has been such a tight end dominant you know offense for so long if the receiving CT does provide the playmaking that you and I think it's going to it's going to dramatically change how teams starting with really Louisville and Beyond defend this football team it's gonna make it a lot harder to defend this football team in my opinion yeah I think we'll have to re-evaluate how we evaluate the tight end room right like it's as interesting as it is to say because this is the first time in such a long time that we've been in a position to say we might have you know a very elite receiving room from top to bottom and we don't have to have you know in previous years in 2022 based on injuries and style of play if Michael Mayer doesn't go off that year we're just not I mean the offense won't be able to move the ball screwed yeah screwed yeah yeah I mean it you know you've had that in previous years I mean luckily I mean I don't even want to know what the outcome would have been at the Ohio State game and what the final score would have been last year if Mitchell Evans doesn't have a game that he has he was their offense ex until the late in that game when they finally started giving the ball to audri and he started leaning on him yep Mitchell was your offense through and the same thing against Duke take that's even more so take Mitchell Evans out of the game against Duke and they they don't they don't win yep he they could not cover him they could not cover him last year and not just on that final drive I mean he it was from from from jump they had no answers for Mitchell Evans none yeah so you are correct yep it's uh it's going to be interesting to see this would be a fun thing to revisit you know these how we evaluate it today what we're going to talk about in December and say you know what hey we were spot on with this and and go from there we'll start we'll start with the pairs were spot on and then somehow we'll we'll have to stop before we get to the areas where we were wrong we'll just go and leave that part of it out and just focus where we were right so um let's wrap up with the offensive line because I think this is this is the concerning area for me and and I'll just this one I'll start off with I I I don't think in good faith that we could sit here and say that an offensive line that doesn't have Joe Walt is better than an offensive line that does have Joe Walt today based on I mean even with all the issues that the o line had last year there's way too little experience from even like even if they start cougan or spinler even if they start TSH and you're talking about two established tackles and established Center and two Junior guards compared to a lineup that could potentially have you know three red shirt sophomores a red shirt freshman in a true freshman starting lineup it could it end up being better I think actually it could if everything goes right I think the over I think they're going to be way better inside than they were last year way better so if I were to break it into two groups remember how like they used to have like Center guard coaches and then tackle tight end coaches if we were to do it like that I think they're going to be better on the inside because a like I I wrote an article today Trevor and I said made this statement if Notre Dame wanted to they could have a team with far more experience a team with over 50 career starts starting against A&M they could have brought back Z Carell and his you know 20 some plus starts they could just say hey we're going to go with Rocco and Pat cougan again and we're going to be a very veteran team and we're going to start Tosh at left tackle and fifth year senior senior six year senior senior and then you know whoever's at right tackle right but they chose to tell Zeke we love you thanks but we're moving on because the less experienced but more talented player had proven to be a in their opinion a better option they don't have brocco Spindler starting as a secondy year player at Right Guard because Billy schra beat him out they don't have to they didn't have Tosh Baker as a fifth year senior right tackle his ail beat him out and so I think the potential is better as a whole No One's Gonna sniff Joe Wald as a player but the potential as a whole is better than it was last year but right now today when we don't even know who the starting five is going to be the only way I could tell you that it's it's better is if I was just like you know what bro I'm going full Homer today I'm taking off these glasses I'm going go get some green ones that say in be on them and we're going to say the O Line's better that's the only way you could say it now optimistically if if if if if if happens it could be better but we just got done talking about how well that worked out for us when we had that conversation about the receiving CT last year you never want to go in with ifs and especially on the offensive line and for me that's why it's just the o line going into last year was better yep yeah I agree I I'm on the same page as you I do think it is a more interesting conversation than what some people might think that it would be because again you look at well we lose Blake fiser and Joe Al of course the O Line's not going to be as good you break it down to your point I looked at it the same way the interior of the o line I think is going to be better and I judge good offensive lines by consistency right which is why I think that a guy in Emil Wagner could live up to playing and filling that void of Blake fiser because for as good as Blake fiser was against Ohio State it was just you kind of had to ride the wave with him 100% And so if you would ask me at the end of the season who would I rather have Blake fiser or Emil Wagner if Wagner's the more consistent player I'm taking Amil Wagner the biggest question is around what happens on the left side of the offensive line and that to me was more of the deciding factor of who I would take I don't want to Center this around Joe Walt but again we don't even know who the the five are going to be I'm very confident and I know who two of them are but outside of that we're going to kind of have to see what happens ideally sometime in the next week um because I don't want to be having this you know here in Marcus Freeman's press conference next Monday and it's game week and uh the answer is we are going to put the best five out there and we'll let you know when we know I'm okay with that answer as long as they know what the answer is like I'm okay if him telling right and and and I get that's what you were saying I get what you were saying you were being realistic like practical like if he truly if that answers the truth yeah right then it's a concern yeah we'll probably get that answer but it it won't matter if that it's more about okay but like my hope is that when they go to the practice field yesterday and today that they've got their starting five at least what they think it's going to be established now if somebody outplays somebody for the next week okay cool you make that change but they're we're going to want them to have as much time as possible yep uh looking at you know that that offensive line as much possible to come together and and the coaching staff is certainly going to need that to be the case so right now definitely not better it definitely has a chance to be better as a whole there there's no question now let's wrap this segment up by looking at it from the standpoint of the offense as a whole well actually you know what let's do it this way coaching staff I'm gonna throw a little curveball at you we didn't think about coaching staff is this coaching staff better now than it was a year ago I think that answer is obvious I yes yeah I I am very hard leaning on the side of yes like yes it's it's this might be the biggest difference and and I actually I liked Jared Parker more than most I think he was a smart guy had potential to be even better Notre Dame did set an all-time scoring record last year but it's the big games where his inexperience shined and Mike Den Brock has that so he's gonna be he's better and I'm not saying this is like Jared Parker sucked like well okay how did he how did he suck when they set a scoring record and scored more for more had more games of 40 points than any time in school history he just wasn't there he wasn't ready to shine in the biggest moments that's what hurt coach Parker now maybe he'd got better this year maybe but that's that's just I mean it's just not Mike Den Brock's a far more proven coach Mike Brown's a better Coach than chansy Stucky not even close in my opinion and then the two and then G now Gino d and or Gino and Joe Rudolph are going into year two now as opposed to year one and D McCulla is one of the best in the business and he's not goingon to get worse the longer heason Notre Dame so I think the coach from a coaching standpoint is significantly better and that that can't be ignored when we talk about like if you don't think Joe Rudolph's a great old line coach that's fair that's fine he has to prove himself he's not a great o line coach right now but I have a hard time thinking he's going to be worse as a coach not not the line but him worse in year two than than he was in year one now that he's got a year of working with these guys that that rarely happens where guys actually get worse in year two now of course it did happen last year with Notre Dame when chansy Stucky was worse in year two than he was in year one but chansy Stucky was a neoy coach who' never really been a real Coach before he's a real Coach for one year at Baylor Jo Joe Rudolph's been around for a minute so I just I have a hard time thinking he's going to be worse in year two and the rest of it just just better so way better so now let's look at it overall as a whole actually you are said yes right I you you did ansers yes it is definitely better yep now with that being factored in is the Notre Dame offense in 20124 better right now in your view than it was through the 23 2023 season offense as a whole including coaching staff players everything from 10,000 foot view yes yeah I I will I will take this 2024 offense for um for for a laundry list of reasons I mean one I like the potential at quarterback more I was one of those guys where I was excited that we got Sam Hartman last year but looking at it schematically I knew there were going to be some bumps and bruises with his adjustments starting with him having to learn to take snaps under Center when he came to South Bend um that to me was an indicator of okay this isn't just going to be as simple as let's plug and play here um I like our offensive coordinator I mean really the captain of the offense and and kind of pointing it in the direction it needs to I'm with you I was not a Jared Parker hater last year he learned in his first year as an offensive coordinator that unfortunately at Notre Dame yeah you have 12 games you get measured by four of them and and that's how it should be at Notre Dame I'm not I'm not saying oh it's unfair to no it's unfair that the harshness in which he's CR critiqued by some is unfair the point that they're making in their criticism is not unfair no he did not do a good enough job in those big games but though he was over his head he's a bum he's that that's nonsense right but this is Notre Dame you're judged by what you do on the biggest stages and that's how it should always be yeah yeah absolutely Marcus Freeman learned it in 2022 you know unfortunately I hate to bring up the Marshall game but he learned the hard way that whenever anybody comes to play you whether it be a neutral site in South Bend at their house it's their Super Bowl and he learned that the hard way and so then fast forward to last year what happened the teams that should have beat by 21 points or more we did right um I think getting back to which team I would take I'm taking this year's quarterback overall as an offense I'm taking just the ceilings higher there's significantly less wh if questions there are more around the offensive line but we I've I've heard you guys talk about it in other shows the offensive line doesn't have to play at a Joe Moore award level winning champion ship offensive line for us to compete for a national championship this year they just have to be good and I think they have the potential to do that so I'm taking the 2024 offense I am as well and it's it's not really close I mean you're you're better on coaching is better more experienced more big game experience you're better at quarterback you're deeper at quarterback you're you're at least deeper and more explosive at running back you may not be better but you're more Dynamic you're you're more Dynamic you're deeper you're more experienc and more proven at at receiver at the very least tight ends a wash if I forced you Trevor to say one is better one is worse at tight end I'd be curious what your answer would be like you can't just go was you pick I it's but it is close so it's not going to be worse I don't think than last year and then offensive line same thing it's is it is does it have a Joe wal in it no it doesn't is it going to be as good in game one as it as they were against Ohio State last year highly unlikely are can they get better during the season sure I mean so so while the offensive line could end up being the CP tonight to this team is in regard to winning a championship that is flat out true I still think this offense is better than it was a year ago I don't know if it's a championship caliber unit yet the offensive Line's going to determine that ultimately but it's certainly better than it was last year I'd feel a whole lot better going to play Ohio state with this group of players and coaches than I did last year year and there's no that's a no doubt that's a no-brainer like I would have far more confidence that the Clemson game is going to be completely flipped with this group than than what we had last year when from what we what we saw from Notre Dame last year heading into that game and how that game played out sure the only way that I'm taking facets of the offense in 2023 is if we get his granular to say I'm taking this left tackle I am taking this number two insert whatever that's that is where would draw my differences but a unit as a whole I mean I'm probably looking at it at the start this year running back is still tough because it depends on the the scheme you're in I'm taking this year's receiving core this year's quarterback um tight ends I would I would take this year for the sole fact that the floor is being raised um but yeah it'd have to be really granular for me to pick something in you just said something really interesting that I didn't think about to do the show is what would your all all Notre Dame starting lineup be if you could take last year's group and or this year's group I'm going 24 Riley Leonard at quarterback okay 23 audri at running back if I could say which depth chart would I want I'd probably go with this year's but I'm just talking starting lineup my receiving core would be Chris Mitchell Jaden great house and probably Bo Collins or 24 version of Jaden Thomas my tight end would be 24 version of Mitchell levans because he's more experienced he gained experience from last year my left tackle is Anthony knp totally kidding Joe Al um my left guard would be whoever starts at left guard this year whether it's Pat kougan Roco Spindler or Sam Pendleton or san abshure because whoever wins that job is gonna be better than what Pat cougan was last year Center I'm going with Ashton Craig Right Guard I'm going with Billy schra right tackle I'd go with Blake fiser now I think Emil to your point Emil may end up being a better player than Blake but I know what Blake was warts and all I knew what I knew what Blake was on his best day I knew what Blake was on his worst day I have no clue what a meal is going to be so I'm going with the at right tackle or I mean Blake at right tackle so I think that's what three starters four three starters from last year's team on this year's team if we just look at the starting lineup you know that's I think that says a lot now to answer Raymond's question from earlier Raymond if you want to look at statistics for me it's with Riley Leonard it's going to come down to to yards per game and touchdowns that's that I I don't I maybe Riley throws for more I actually think Riley's going to throw for more yards than Sam did last year because the but that's not going to be Riley vers Sam that's going to be more of a byproduct of what was around the two quarterbacks so I don't think that's really fair but if to to to talk about how if Riley's having the impact that we hope it's about yards per game and touchdowns that's really what I want out of Riley Leonard I want him to be over 280 to 290 yards per game minimum of total offense rushing and passing and I want him to be averaging about three touchdowns a game that's really where I want him to be regular season average of about two and a half to three touchdowns a game uh running back it's going to come down to yards per carry yards per excuse me yards per touch rushing and receiving and then can you can you match that the the short yardage situations is ultimately going to tell me the difference if they can figure out a way to match last year's success and that could include Riley Leonard then then you know as far as the offense then I'm going to feel that this that's how this running back room is better higher yards per touch average touch means carries and catches and then how are they in in short yards that could be second and one third second and short third and short and then goal to go situations is going to determine ultimately if this room is better receiver it's produ just that's the easiest one pure production and then I also want to see more big plays from structure some of the big plays that they had in the receiving game last year were off of broken plays you think of the Chris Tyree play some things like that are they making more big plays from the scope of the offense so not Riley running to his right finding a guy coming across the backside for a 50 yard touchdown I mean within the within the structure of the play calls are they more are they producing more 30 plus yard big plays that's the one thing I would look at specifically Beyond just overall production what percentage of the receptions are 30 plus yard gains 25 to 30 plus yard gains that's going to tell me a lot because compared to last year and then of course o line is just going to come down to cons I think you nailed it there's no statistical thing it's consistency and if you want to know how the offensive line performs what are their yards per carry and are the sack allowed numbers against A&M Louisville Florida State and USC that that's going to what it's going to come down to for me so those are the statistics I would look at for that Raymond so before we move on to the defense folks hit that like button hit that subscribe button hit the notification Bell share this podcast give us a five star review some great feedback in the chat right now about how good how well Trevor is doing today so I appreciate that and uh and if you have not done so sign up for the message board at boards breakdown. comom and if especially if you're someone who has a positive outlook on the season we definitely need you to sign up today because there's some cranky people on The Message Board today that are a little bit nervous about this Texas A&M game so we need some more of that positivity over there today so we can uh spruce up the uh the confidence level and the energy on the side a little bit today I'm being I'm being sarcastic a little bit little sarcastic but anyway check that out at boards atar breakdown. all right so let's go into the final part of today's show Trevor and that is going to be the defense we're going to look at the same exact type of conversation that we had in the offensive show where we're going to go position by position then we'll talk coaching then we will talk big picture how are they going to be and this one is going to be a lot more debatable for me because last year offense was a disappointing one in some big moments this year is like okay which excellent group will be better that's kind of how I look at it from from the defens so this one was going to take on a a little bit of a different tone but let's start with the play position players or you know the players and and bu position and start with the defensive line it's always starts with the big boys right like you lose dvon Jean Baptist you lose Nana osaf amena from last year's rotation I believe that's the only guys that you lost from last year correct yes you add RJ Obin you add Bryce young you add and then now you've got some young players kind of stepping in the mix that weren't necessarily there last year so let's begin with the defensive line Trevor which unit do right now is noted aim better on the dline right now than when they were with how last season based on how last season played out yeah I'm taking this season's dline um first and foremost uh I think that one from from everything that I've heard and just through natural player progression I think that this dline unit is deeper um going into last year I I loved what javante jean Baptist turned into um but I if I'm being 100% honest I didn't know that he was capable of having that kind of season because he was very much a rotational guy at Ohio State um I I look at that and I say well we're replacing his production with RJ obin's and RJ Obin was a proven producer at Duke call the defensive tackles a wash I would even air on the side of they're better because they are just a year more into this system a year more into being those dudes on the D line um then you compound that with the talent that they got with with Bryce young and um you know another year of development for patello and Josh Burnham and some of those guys I'm taking this year's dline yeah I I think that's it's you can maybe debate it but I don't think there's a much of a debate because as you mentioned you have everybody coming back and what you've added is more Dynamic than what you had last year now will RJ Obin match his produ the production that you had like that that's the biggest question I mean it you had tackles for loss and eight sacks from last year's big end position can they match that or not I I don't know but I don't think they necessarily have to I expect Vier to be better this year not just because Jord Mato comes back Jordan Junior till Maka is a year older in the system I think he'll be better than he was last year how much better I don't know I think it'll be better uh but I think the presence of bubacar tayori as a at the very minimum is going to be a situational pass rusher that they did not have last year and then you look at the other position and you know let's even if RJ is just a wash with javante I think the combination of Josh Burnham and Bryce young as the number two and three is with and I love Nana I think Nana was such a valuable rotation player last year but Josh Burnham and Bryce young are just gonna be more Dynamic and just better and it's certainly in the past game so I I think then you got you've got uh Riley Mills coming back you've got you've got Howard cross coming back Jason on now has a year under beld in the rotation Donovan hinish is now a junior as opposed to you know obviously being in sophomore last year he's going to be older stronger experienced you add arml mukum who has really taking advantage of Gabriel Rubio coming back and Gabriel Rubio's injury sucks for right now it's gonna suck for September potentially but it's going to end up I think being a blessing in disguise when he comes back whether it's October November because you're going to add a 300 plus pound fresh guy to your defensive line for that stretch run and I think that can end up not that I wanted it to happen but hey if it it it did happen and so here's here's the the benefit that could come from that so I I think it's it's going to be better and I think the the where it's going to show itself as better is potentially is pass rushers but I really think it's going to come down to the Run game I think this dline is going to be more impactful with negatives you know tackles for loss you know getting penetration making some of those plays this year than it was last year I think that's really where you're going to see the biggest difference because I think this is going to be a a stronger group a bigger group group than it was a year ago and a deeper group a much deeper group than it was a year ago from an experience I mean you had some of the same guys you had Jason on last year and Donovan hinish last year what's the difference well Jason on had never played a meaningful down in his life until La before last year J Donovan hinish had never played a meaningful down of his life in I mean talking about college prior to last year now those guys have played a couple hundred snaps and so they're more experienc now now arml mukum is your number four five guy is the one with no experience where last year it was like your your three you're you're three you're four and you're five and and so it's a much different scenario Josh Burnham was really going into his first year in the rotation last year he's now got a year under his belt Junior was going to his first year as a you know in the rotation under his belt now he's more experienced bubar was a true freshman last year arml was a true freshman last year now they're sophomores so I just think overall there's a lot more depth a lot more size and a lot more playmaking ability up front than there was a year ago and that's why I think this line is is is the pick as well let's go linebacker because this one to me is the mo is the one I had the hardest time with there's different ways to look at it I'll just speak for the both of us and you correct me if I'm speaking improperly there's no debate which room is more talented it's this one this one has more god-given athletic ability than last year's because you you lose Jack C you lose Maris lefal and JD Bertrand but you add older versions of break Bowen and Preston zener and jayen Alsbury plus you add Kingston to the mix like to me athletically there's no discussion athletically doesn't equal better production better football play that's the debate so you lose two-time Captain three-year starter JD Bertrand you lose two-year starter Maris lefou who's really been in the rotation since 20120 missed 2021 with an injury JD was a fifth round pick Maris was a third round pick you're really replacing all three starters from your defense from your linebacking core last year Trevor when you consider that Jack Kaiser was your starting Rover he's now will so you're also having to replace your starting Rover from last year even though that guy returns he's not returning at Rover so really your linebacking core is going to look completely different this season will it be better will it be better overall will it be better early late you can take it however you want will the linebacking core be better this year than it was last year I think it will be for their lengthen their athleticism there is it's so tough to replace the leadership that JD Bertrand left out right and that's shoes that kind of Tandem Jack Kaiser and Drake Bowen are gonna have to fill um max bullo the linebacker coach has been very vocal that they are going to play a five rotation linebacking core which I love that move but it's tough to say which one I would take more because you're having to play essentially Five Guys to replace the value of those core three that you lost in my eyes um but I think at the end of the day when we're sitting here in December which room do I think is going to be better I do think it's going to be the 24 room because they are longer they are faster I mean just on paper they're bigger right I mean JD Bertrand was you know great player I think he was six foot one with cleats and a helmet on you know and you have Drake Bowen who is all of 6263 you know you have Kingston Ville amasa who is all of 63 and he's young so I think with the depth of this year and with the overall seiling of the talent I'm going to give it to this class of of linebackers this year the only thing that I'm missing out on is the leadership which I do think whether it be from other position groups or up and cominging new guys in this room I think you're still getting but just not from JD I'm I feel a lot of disposition a lot like I did at running back I'm back and forth I I believe I said in the chat or in this the post on the message board I believe I said linebacker and then I've kind of been back and forth and and really honestly I'm I'm having a hard time picking one even now I'm gonna go with 2024 simply because I my personal bias and I'll be honest is I tend to Value the talent over the experience even at a place like linebacker I always if it's close yeah you may lean towards the experience but if sometimes I I just I think over all depth I don't think it's all that close I think last year's JD bertran is one of the most underappreciated and underrated linebackers Notre Dame has ever had there's a lot of fans that have convinced themselves he's a slightly more athletic version of Joe Schmidt and the NFL is trying to tell you guys he's not he's an NFL football player why he was drafted in the fifth round of the NFL draft JD was an athletic player he had good power first size the only thing he lacked was size and length uh he has short arms he's not a real big guy but he's a very good football player at Notre Dame he was your leading tackler for three straight years and he was wicked smart and a great leader but part of the reason he was a great part of the reason I'm optimistic that this groom was going to be better it's because he was a great leader because from what I was told from various sources he took D Drake Bowen under his wing the entire season and was like okay I'm gonna teach you what it's like to be a proo at this level so you can come and and be my replacement next year and I've talked a lot about that this Summer that means Drake's going to be ahead of the game from where he would have been on just normal development of mind that's huge in football to have that veteran leadership but I think the the reason I think it's going to be better is is twofold I don't think Drake is going to be as consistently effective as JD but I think Drake is gonna make more big plays than JD he's gonna make more mistakes than JD he's going to make more big plays but I think they're going to be improved everywhere else I think the will position is going to be better I meis an impactful player for ndame last year but he was very inconsistent when it came to his execution they're going to be more consistent there this year from so so you're going to lose a little bit at Mike but I think you're going to gain it at will so that right there makes the whole Effectiveness and assignment correctness a wash once you take that out of the mix then I don't think it's really that much of a debate in my view because of the overall Talent you're getting jayen sne we had Jaylen sne last year yes but now you get junior year version of jayen sne who played a couple hundred snaps last year he's gonna be better than he was last year Drake Bowen as good as I think he'll be as a sophomore I do think Kingston was better than him as a freshman now that doesn't impact this year because Drake's always going to be youread of Kingston but if I'm gonna say who who's better Drake or Kingston as true freshman comparing 23 to 24 I think I shouldn't say better it he's more ready to play the day one than Drake was partly because of the program he came from this is a kid that has played on National Television at St John bosow he's played against Elite level Talent where Drake was always I don't know that there was ever a high school football game that Drake Bowen played in where he wasn't the best player on the field Kingston can't always say that because of he had played against modern day and some some great programs and so I think he's more ready to play day one than Drake was a year ago even though I think right now Drake's ahead of Kingston right now that's what I believe to be true and I Al actually think the future of linebackers not one or the other Mike I think they're both gonna start eventually and then at Rover you you don't have the experience of Jack Kaiser but you you're deeper now and you've got Jaylen sne obviously can play that position and then Jaden olber can play that position so uh and then of course you you just they didn't use the Rover a ton last year I mean Jack k had about 100 fewer snaps than Thomas Harper and when you start throwing Clarence Lewis's nickel snaps in there he was like 150 to 200 snaps beneath what the nickel was last year so I think you're going to be deeper I think you're going to be more athletic I think they're going to make more big plays and I think this linebacking room is going to be even better getting after the quarterback that's a that's a pure projection but when I look at the size and the athleticism that that they're going to be throwing from the inside with Drake and Kingston and Jack Kaiser and Jaylen Sneed I think this linebacking core is going to be really impactful rushing the quarterback and that's going to factor into it as well so yes we'll see more mistakes yes we'll probably see more 20 plus yard runs allowed this year compared to last year but I think we're going to see a lot more plays than we saw last year uh for a host of reasons including the defensive Line's going to be even more impactful and that makes the linebackers more impactful so it's not by a lot but I I I do think that's the reason I go with the 24 group over over the 23 group is that right there so Trevor we're going to look at the secondary a little bit differently we're going to first look at it separately so corn the two outside corners at one at one and then we'll look at the two safeties and the nickel in part two and then we'll also evaluate it as a whole so let's first begin at corner lose cam Hart lose Clarence Lewis Christian Gray Jaden Mickey become more prominent players you add Leonard Moore of the mix cornerback Benjamin Morrison's now a junior soft more last year cornerback what say you is no name better in 2024 based on where we are right now compared to where they were last season this one was a tough one for me because of the loss of camart um if I'm looking at the the cornerback room as a whole I do still like the 2024 room 4 One Ben Morrison like a lot of other players is a year older I mean it's it's weird it feels just like yesterday that it was 2022 and he was the young guy that was making all the plays and now he's the guy right um he's a year older he has more experience Christian Gray has all of the potential in the world I mean it's I I've heard you mention it on other shows but I also when I watch them live I do get confused a lot of who is who um play styles are very similar I love the young talent that they added um Leonard Moore his length his size is going to be great and of course J Mickey you know I I love Jaden Mickey he's a very aggressive Corner which I like um not afraid of physical contact I like where this room is at um I think again I kind of evaluate the room as a whole of where their ceiling is at and where their floor was and I think the middle kind of takes care of itself and I think that the cornerback room this year has a higher floor than where it was at last year I agree with the last part that the the you said the the ceiling is higher correct is what you said MH I agree with that right now I'm taking last year's Corner Room right now simply because the way I look at it is the additional experience for Christian Gray and Jaden Mickey doesn't doesn't overcome losing cam right now I do agree with you however this there's a chance it could be better and I won't be shocked if it is but it there's a lot more I need to see it because I think camart was special last year yeah now do I think if Christian Gray is as good as I think he's going to be that they're going to be better yeah I do and I also think Benjamin Morrison's gonna be better than he was a year ago also so the potential's there I don't really disagree with your overall take I just can't pull the trigger on it being better with with because of camart until I see Christian Gray go be what I think he can and that I see that jadeen Mickey has kind of figured out his role and and bought into it and I also want to see if you know can Leonard Moore help out a little bit so it's not huge because I again I I do think you're you're more but like I mean last year you had Benjamin Morrison cam Hart Jaden Mickey and Christian her great well now you've only got three of those four guys so I mean if you want to just look player for player you lost Sam Sam Cam Hart and you replace him with Leonard Moore well right now that's that's a big drop off I think Leonard Moore eventually is going to be really good and I've been high on the Leonard Moore train since they landed him the summer before last but Leonard Moore in 2024 is not in the same league as cam Hart was in 2023 sure now the question is going to be the end result is does the experience that Christian Gray and Jaden Mickey and Benjamin Morrison all gained Trump that that's where it could end up being better but as of right now today August 20th I just I I've tried to talk myself into it just can't me I just can't uh so I'm going with the the cornerback room safety completely different story for me Trevor you bring back Xavier Watts he now has a full two years of experience under his belt as a safety you you trade DJ Brown for Rod herd big upgrade you trade ad Don Schuler for Ramone Henderson pretty significant upgrade for me and I I think Thomas Harper is a is a more more Dynamic player than Jordan Clark I think Jordan Clark will be a little bit more steady player so it's it's pretty pretty even there even if you were to say Thomas Harper was better the overall safety position is to me this is the the spot on defense where Notre Dame has made the big by far the biggest jump like I think linebacker is going to be a little bit better I think D Line's going to be a little bit better I think corner just not quite as good could maybe be a little bit better safety for me is a position where I think they're going to be significantly better than they were I love DJ Brown great kid leader smart but he just was limited athletically yeah Rod herd I think is a more Dynamic player Ramone Henderson was a really good athlete just was not a football player he just was not an instinctive football player Adon Schuler's complete opposite so I think safety is a position where they're going to be uh a lot better A lot better yeah I am 100% on the same page as you um I mean breaking it down player by player call Xavier Watts I guess a wash if you want to but he's gotten better right so at the minimum I think you say well last year had Xavier Watts um this year they have Xavier Watts love ad Don Schuler's athletic ability couple that with he's a really smart football player man I mean his his IQ for the game is there and then yes losing some of the players to the transfer portal and in in graduation they're without DJ Brown and Ramone Henderson um there's been a lot of talk about who's going to replace the production of Thomas Harper you know since a fair share of players got that um kind of like that slot Corner nickel playing time reps last year but I mean Rod herd and and Jordan Clark coming into the mix they are very experienced football players I mean between the two of them they have 4,126 snaps of Football under their belt coming into this year and I think that that's one thing that people kind of forget about is we're replacing an experienced player with more experienced players similar to the wide receiver room we're kind of eliminating the wh ifs they're not able to play the position we know that they can play football it's more of the conversation of are they going to be who we think that they're going to be and luckily for us we can go back at the film with Rod herd and and we can confidently say yeah I think that he can so I I think that the safety room this year is going to be significantly better than where it was at last year and the safety room last year had like uh I forgot the name of the award because it's hard to keep track of all of them but the award that Xavier Watts won it's returning that and it has gotten better I think the rod rod herd's a guy that came out of the Big 10 with over 80 tackles last year this is a kid that's got over 2,000 career snaps in the Big 10 yep uh he's just a better player now there was a concern I had my answer would not have been emphatic as I mean it was better I've been saying that all summer you've heard me say that plenty times I I'm more emphatic now that I've actually seen with my own eyes what Rod herd looks like in this defense and and what Jordan Clark looks like on this in this defense and then just a Don Schuler's maturation as a player right like I felt bet I felt good about Xavier's gonna be a wash at the very least right I mean interceptions may go down overall plays going to go up I mean that's kind of how I look at it I fully expected I fully felt that Adon was an upgrade over over U Ramone Henderson the question is going to be how does Rod herd make the transition from nickel at Northwestern to safety at Notre Dame that was the only potential hangup now that I've seen it all right it's it's they're better and they're significantly better in my opinion and and now that's why and when I look at the secondary as a whole I think they're going to be better I think they're better now than they were last year because even though corner is not quite as good we're talking about them having still a top five Corner Room last year and still top five quarterback room this year it's just by a small percentage maybe just not as good at some things like I think they'll be better at coverage this year than they were last year cam but cam was a playmaker that kind of shut down half the field I mean he's like you know three Force fumbles and you know great against perimeter runs and perimeter screens and things like that I mean think about the first half against Clemson every time they kept trying to run those bubble screens and now screens against Cam and he kept blowing it up in 22 they didn't try a whole lot of those in 20243 and they definitely didn't try any to the field where Cam was and and so I I so yeah slightly maybe not as good but safety is way better than maybe the cornerback room is now obviously for you Trevor the answer's easy because you said they're better at both positions so obviously the secondary as a whole you think they're gonna be better for me I think the secondary is going to be better because of the fact that as a whole I just think they're deeper they're going to be better at coverage and just overall more athletic Christian Gray is every bit the athlete cam Hart was and he's faster but Rod herd is a is a much better athlete in my opinion than What DJ Brown was and and so overall I just think this is a deeper group a more a more veteran group I mean think about you have four captains in the secondary think about that Trevor four captains because Benjamin Morrison and Xavier watts are captains now Jordan Clark was a captain at Arizona State last year and Rod herd was a captain in Northwestern last year you had four players make College captains in your secondary yeah right so what what's the biggest loss that I had with losing cam Hart leadership that's a position where he was a great leader but you're gonna be okay there because not only do you have Xavier and Benjamin but you added two t power five captains to your secondary in the portal not worried about leadership at all if if the cornerback room can be better than it was last year and you're correct there they may have one of the two best secondaries in all of college football if not the best but at the very least they're top five easy in my opinion right now because they're that much better at safety compared to last year and corner is slightly one like I don't think you're saying they're way better Corner than they were last year and I'm not saying they're going to be way worse a corner it's s similar if I have to lean one way the other I'd probably go here yep but safety much better which means overall secondary better yep let's talk coaching you lose Chris o you replace him basically with Marty baji I mean that because you had Max bullo as your linebacker's coach last year so max is technically a full-time assistant now but Max's role as a football coach doesn't change a ton from last year I he's got a little bit more Authority in that room but he was your linebacker's coach last year Chris o was your was your safety's coach now Mike mickens is the entire safeties Co secondary coach and Marty Biagi and and some analysts and gas are now helping at safety Al golden goes into year three Al Washington goes into year three Mike mickens goes into year five and Marty baji goes into year two first year working with the Defense Max bull is going into year two but you lost Chris o who I believe was a very good safeties coach take recruiting out of the equation just as a football coach he's very good football coach which is why Jim Harbaugh hired him because Jim Harbaugh likes football coach like good football he didn't care about recruiting in the NFL can you coach football and there's no doubt that Chris can coach football so coaching wise is n Dame better the same or slightly worse or worse than what they were last season I'm GNA call them the same if I'm comparing it like from where we're at today to where we were at last year um losing Chris o is tough because to your point he is just a football guy he knows ball great coach I mean we saw what he did with Xavier Watts as a safety coach right like he's he knows knows what he's doing okay um but then on the flip side of the coin you have everybody is a year older every like this is Al Golden's thirdd year with Notre Dame you know this is Al Washington's thirdd right um you know you have he came in with Freeman's first year so gold him and golden both came in as part of Freeman's first staff so 2022 yeah okay so um you know we have Washington going into year three we have Max bullo and another year under his belt and I've loved everything that I've heard about him I'm very excited he's one of the main reasons why I'm excited to see what this linebacking core does this year you know because of how how he is as a coach and how he basically what he demands of his players in a good light and you combine that with their athleticism I think it's going to be really exciting Mike mickens being the defensive passing game coordinator and it's his fifth year in South Bend um you know I don't want to weigh you know losing one coach being being as detrimental but I think it could it could have an effect I think they kind of put the Band-Aid on the Bullet Hole is making Mike mickens the overall kind of ring leader and and passing game defense right but um I think as of right now if I were to take it today I think it's the same but I think that overall as a coaching staff as this year progresses at the end of the year I think I'm taking the 24 coaching staff same I've had to kind of talk way through it a little bit but you same way you did I'm I think Mike mickens is just one of the best in the business and I think he'll be able to handle this I think one thing that's going to help too is this new rule that analyst can now be on the field yeah I giv not even extra bodies to be down there working with those guys you know Al golden going into year three I think h i mean the more time these kids are in his system the better they're going to be and then Al was the big question for me is what was who is Al Washington is he the guy that we saw in 2022 where the dline never quite lived up to the hype to the talent that it had or is it like 2023 where I felt like he got everything out of what that line could be last year for the most part I think Jordan Patel was a little disappointing but I don't put that on him I think Jord Matel put on too much weight and just didn't didn't play the way that he's capable of I don't blame I've always said this when when you look at a position coach and there's a player at a position that's struggling that's usually I kind of put that on the player more often than not when you know it's a coaching problem when it's happening kind of at SE with several guys and when when everybody else played really well and got better except for Jordan Patel I kind of put that more on Jordan you know but but I I tend to think that Al Wasington is is what we saw last year is more of who he is as a position coach so I I think that's obviously he's and now he's going into year three I think even better so I I think I give a slight Edge to it because of the fact that you retained everybody else and you now have more people that can help Mike mickens whereas in the with the old rules maybe Mike mickens doesn't have as much help and when I mean help I mean he literally can't be at two places at once sure he can't be coaching the safeties during individual drills and the corners because they don't do the same drills nor should they do the same drills right so do you have someone can can do that you can't you've got to have multiple sets of eyes to really watch a position group like that which is spread across the entire field you can see everything but you can't watch everything is in detail and so I think that helps him a little bit so I do think it's slightly better but I think last year's defensive staff was really good Y and the big thing for me is I just don't want to see regression if they're just as good as last year that's a win yeah I just don't want to see a regression with Crystal Le being gone and I don't think we will because I think for what you lose for him as an assistant coach from a technical standpoint you're going to gain some advantages now that they're all in the same room speaking the same language talking to each other I think that you're going to see and whereas o would tell his guys his thing mickens would tell his guys his thing and then they'd have to kind of go figure it out on the field now it's like everybody's leaving the meeting room with one message from one coach yep and I think that's going to help overcome the fact that they're not going to have the same you know position coach during Indie in the technical parts that they had last year so that's that's where I'm coming from so defense as a whole we picked we thought the offense would be slightly was going to be better than last year now let's look at the defense as a whole players coaching all that stuff together do you expect the 20 24 defense to be better than the 2023 defense I do um I think we got longer I think we got more athletic and one of the things that not enough people are talking about I think is it's been a very active offseason for us we got Riley Leonard Mike Den Brock's coming back to Notre Dame you know got these slew of of uh transfer wide receivers coming in I don't think enough people are talking about that Al golden is going into year three and the jump that he made from year one to two is fantastic I'm not saying the gap of progression is going to as big but everything is going to be more refined we can hope yeah could you imagine if they made a if the jump from year three was as big as the jump from year one to two like I mean if I mean if that happens people are going to be talking about one of the best def like 2012 defense esque type of yeah with 2012 defense was speed yeah depth yeah yeah like yes if if everybody on the 2023 secondary had cavari Russell speed that's what we would be talking about about um but I think taking all of those factors into account I'm I'm going to take the 24 team and and I know that this is you know doesn't have to be said but doesn't mean that I think that you know the 23 defense wasn't good obviously they were fantastic right but I'm similar to you I I will take athleticism and speed and length over the guy that might be physically not all the way there but a great leader a great mind um and you know you kind of have to take the bumps and bruises with that which is why I think the game against Texas A&M to start the year is so highlighted but I I think overall I think we're going to look back and say that this 24 team defense was was better um I think it's tough for me to say I don't want I don't want to be the eye test guy because I I'm analytical and I dive into stats a lot but I think in some areas especially in the big games you can see you know the pass rush is getting after it more this year than it was last year in big games right um at the at I mean I think worst case scenario you call the secondary a wash because the secondary played great yeah you know I mean well hold on you played great I mean you know I mean they only ranked third in the nation in pass defense last year number one in passer rating last year number two in completions uh completion percentage allowed and they were only third in in fewest yards per attempt allowed and they only tied Michigan for the fewest touchdown passes allowed I mean you know I don't know if that's good or not but I guess it's okay yeah it's decent I I suppose I guess yeah when you're top five like in every category yeah say that's pretty good T twist my arm if we have to have that secondary again I suppose right no but your your point is spot on though right like with with the defense as a whole the big thing is just don't regress yeah like if all they are is a wash from last year Trevor that's a win like because they were really good last year on defense I mean even the Louis game you look and say oh they lost 38 to 20 I'm like they didn't give up 38 points on defense was seven seven at halftime I mean I don't know what it was seven seven at halftime and you forced a fumble that and gave your offense the ball in Louisville territory to start the third quarter like you didn't lose that game because your defense you didn't lose the Ohio State game because you're defense yeah they should have made some plays to win the game at the end but you shouldn't have put them in that position where 17 points was enough to beat you the only game where I felt the defense didn't bring it was Clemson but you know what that happens to every team every year right Notre Dame didn't have the offense to bail them out in that one or two games a year where they weren't Elite and the best teams do that Georgia has has had those games in 21 and 22 when they won national titles there were games where their defense wasn't as lights out as it normally is but their offense bailed them out I mean you you you you you have to be that sometimes you have to have those games sometimes and you look at like 2022 for example Trevor I mean yeah that that Georgia offense was or defense was really good all year but they had to get bailed out by the offense against Ohio State in the semi-final game because they could not stop Trevor or CJ strad in that game had no they could I mean there's nothing they knew what he's gonna do and there's nothing they could do about it he just was so good that game offense had to bail you out I don't care who you are that's GNA have to happen from time to time and Notre Dame didn't have that kind of offense last year so but to your point if they improve then that kind of gets really scared and here's my question if the offense is improved how does that help the defense like that's going to be something that's gonna be very fascinating to see with how this team plays out this year so um it's good stuff Trevor very good first show man I enjoyed that that was really good stuff so that's going to do it for today's show everybody I appreciate y'all joining us today um well actually you know what Trevor let's let's actually do one thing before we go we did not do this starting lineup between 23 and 2014 I'm going to go Viper I'm going to go 24 version of Jordan pelo with sophomore version of bubacar okay I'm gonna go I'm gonna go RJ Obin or Josh Burnham over javante John Baptist okay I'm gonna go 24 version of the two tackles I don't see how you can't take the older stronger more experienced versions of those players linebacker I'm going to go 24 Jack Kaiser at will I'm still going to go with JD at Mike I just you know like that you know and then at Rover I'm going to go with 23 version of Jack Kaiser starting lineup Again part of the reason I like the linebacking core better this year is the depth yep secondary 24 Benjamin Morrison 23 cam Hart 23 um Thomas Harper secondary Rod herd at boundary safety 24 Xavier Watts at other safety now can I go 23 Xavier Watts at boundary and 24 Xavier Watts at the field is that is that doable can we do that or Ian I I don't I don't see why not they're different players from different years I mean who knows that'd be very very nice very very nice if we could see that so anyway that's uh that's going to do it for today's show everybody reminder six o'clock tonight is when IB Nation Sports Talk goes live they had to push the show back a little bit they'll be back on track tomorrow I'll be back tomorrow at 1:00 going have a lot more fun Notre Dame stuff to talk about folks before you get out of here hit that like button hit the Subscribe button hit the notification Bell share this podcast give us a five star review We greatly appreciate that sign up for the message board at boards. Irish breakdown. comom and uh want to thank youall again so very much I'm gonna uh get ready to call my wife now check she's headed to the vet with Rita we've had a little mini update two good days in a row with Rita and there's actually some light at the end of the tunnel that she might actually pull through this so uh we'll know more in the next day or two and I'll update you guys more when we get that so uh definitely going to keep praying and and uh very thankful for the job they're doing the uh Purdue small animal veterinary hospital in in in Lafayette Indiana it's just been phenomenal great people caring people they've done a great job of taking care of Rita and also being there to help Angela because she's still down in Purdue with Rita so anyway thanks everybody Trevor great job on your first show man look forward to another one we'll talk to you all again very soon on the Irish breakdown podcast