all right welcome back to the bangers and faders podcast I'm your host Joey low 60 guy and this is Will Chu he uh claims that he's two and 0 in all of our Sports debates but I'm pretty conf I'm pretty confident I'm gonna be two- one after today I think I'll we're talking about Kumar rocker and Jack lighter who's better I take the stance although I've played with teammates that are literal high school teammates with Jack lighter Kumar rocker is a better pitchure you just can't say that he just he just made his triaa debut man he's he's pitched one start in Triple A and I know you're gonna be like oh he struck out 10 batters like he's struck out 10 batters that's his first I found an I found an article from 2021 prior to the draft prior to the draft in this article I'm giving you some information here to help your case I'm trying to help you I don't need your help you don't have have to help me you need help on this one tonight I do not need help gonna provide you with some assistance I'm that assist right now no no no you stop this no no this is reverse psychology this is not allowed all right you're supposed to be on your side and I'm supposed to be on mine Jack lighter Kumar rocker go I am you're like pretending to give me advice and I don't need that all right I don't need that I can win on my own I've already won two in the draft prior to the draft they pulled all the different Scouts 28 were pulled and it was a vote on who's better Jack ligher or Kumar rocker at that time votes take a guess what the vote split was 28 to zero Jack lier bro that's crazy that's not true that's not what it is but that's crazy you would say something like that it was 25 to3 25 to3 in favor far off dude five to three not far off at all at the time you got to understand that Kumar was hurt trying to pitch through elbow issues or shoulder issues or whatever so his stock was as low as low as it had been I hear excuses man excuses Jack lters was as high as it could have ever been you're just making excuses at this point so in my eyes right your eyes as the wise men will true has said I have said very important to speak about the very important Jack glider has never had a serious injury that required invasive surgery which just vales better he doesn't would you rather have a guy that gets more Tommy Jones or a guy that doesn't I would rather have the better pitcher whether he got Tommy John or not because for the most part when you're throwing a 95 plus years on end you're probably going to get it at some point and that's just how it is unfort fortunately that's ridiculous because like Justin Verlander got his first when he's like 40 so that was he just got it last three years or something all right well then who's better Jacob negr or Justin Verlander I would rather have Justin Verlander because he's able to pitch more Innings he's able to be on the field you would not say that yesterday I would you were talking about stuff yesterday about Jackson job having better stuff and I'm sitting there telling you when he's healthy he's the best pitcher in baseball we're not talking about just being healthy right now we're talking about just for a team which guy being on the team would be better Justin Verlander because he's going go out there and throw 100 innings for you except for maybe this year and last year when you look at this numbers from current we will say that Jack lers had a couple starts in the majors but they haven't been that great when you look at in isolation what their starts were sit here and talk about his five scoreless innings in Triple A how expect not I'm we're going to look at double A for both guys because that's the only fair fair assessment we can have or how about we just talk about the fact that Jack ligher had more triaa Innings this year than Kumar rocker's entire minor league career Kumar rockers had one triaa start and he came off Tommy John surgery this year and Tommy John surgery devalues you as a pitcher so there's another argument for me well the argument is in value it's who's better and I think who Kumar is better no Jack lighter is better if that was the case then why does Kumar rocker have a point. 46 ER in double A and 29 strikeout with three walks I think it's more impressive to have a three era in tripa a in 77 Innings than it is for 19 innings in double A and having a stat like that because I can guarante you if he pitched 70 plus innings in double A his ER would be above a one at least me maybe even above two what do you do you not value strike throwing all value strike throwing but like Kumar has Jack lighter beat in that but strike throwing isn't everything but it is when you're truly putting up statistics that prove that it is Kumar throws harder he has a better strike perent he 100% throws harder every Scouting Report even The Scouting Report that voted lighter 25 to3 knowledges that Kumar throws harder he sat 93 to 96 peaked at 99 lighter was 90 to 95 and touched 97 in the article right here what lighters literally touch triple digits and Kumar has two more often so they throw the same speed oh but yesterday job didn't throw the same speed as the grime even though they've had the same top vo that's your case well he also didn't sit 99 so neither of these guys sit 99 when you look at the statistics from Vanderbilt in isolation from That season all right Kumar Kumar threw all of his stat all of his pitches for more strikes he threw every single pitch above 60% strikes Jack ler threw one pitch above 60% strikes in that season if you really want to go there Kumar's V was the same actually it was a tick Higher One Mile hour higher then why did Jack Li strike people out because it's all or nothing it's either you strike him out or you walk him and if F was on that day it was going to get hit the whole point you're saying is like Kumar is such a strike thrower then he should probably strike more people out if he's throwing more strikes right right now he is they are not playing at the same level dude they are truly playing at the same level last year if if Kumar didn't get Tommy John he would be at the same level that lighter is right now which is in the Major League rotation and it's criminal that You' don't agree and that you're trying to use him getting injured as an excuse to he's not better lighters everyone nobody can be better than deg Gro though even though he got hurt like you don't use this reasoning for deg Gro I do say that I say when he's on the field when he's healthy he's the best pitcher never did I once say that deg Gro is the most valuable pitcher in all baseball this isn't about value it's who's better is theg gram the best pitcher in baseball or no when he's on the field if he's healthy yes in general no because he's not on the field so he's not the best pitcher in baseball you cannot say somebody's the best pitcher in baseball if he's not on the field but when he is yes injuries happen you're trying to devalue Jack ligher because he I think Spencer Strider is a top 10 pitcher in the league I do he's got Tommy John right now so what's the point but he's not right now then part of the game there's an iil for a reason it's common for people to get hurt it shouldn't be this big bargaining CHP for you on this debate now it's a good thing to not be injured part of not getting injured like gar Cole he barely gets injured this year he got injured but that doesn't make you better no one accuses gck Cole of being better than Jacob deg Gro even though Jacob Jacob De in rankings anymore do you ever see him but in the people's opinion Jacob nego is the best pitcher of this generation and it doesn't matter that he got Tommy he's throwing 30 Innings a year I don't care what stats you put up in 30 Innings a year you are not better than the guy that throws 100 Innings you're not I I don't care what Spencer Spencer Strider threw 200 Innings last year he's hurt he's a very good pitcher last year you agreed you agreed he's a top 10 pitcher in the league is he on now no but he's not playing he's hurt exactly it's like a buffer zone Spencer Strider also doesn't get hurt every other year Jacob deg gr was was hurt with the same injury the whole time that's what I don't I can't stand when people argue this he was hurt with the elbow the whole time he was trying to avoid getting Tommy John that whole time and it failed so what's your point of course it failed at some point it's gonna fail so what's your point like what are you trying to argue right now I don't know what you're trying to argue the years 2020 all the way to 2023 he was trying to avoid getting Tommy John surgery throughout that whole process it was all the same injury he was trying to prevent so saying oh he's on the iil all the time it's the same thing he's trying to prevent getting hurt but it doesn't matter if he's on the iil all the time dude I don't care what you're out with you g get hit in the face I don't care if you're always out then there's you're not good part of being a good pitcher part of being a pitcher is being on the field Kumar and Jack ligher are both on the field right now and Kumar is putting up better numbers and throwing way more strikes and throwing better pitches than lighter can so your argument so bad my argument is so good what are you talking about Jack ligher has more Innings this year in Triple A than Kumar ever did in the minor leagues Kumar has been hurt the whole time finally coming back and you're gonna use his 20 innings in in double A as the reason that you think he's better if you want you just neglect watching a pitcher you don't watch the pitcher watch Jack ler throw a baseball and then watch Kumar rocker throw a baseball who's got better longevity in the long term Kumar I think it's already three and0 right here um it's just like might might as well give myself two extra points for how to really dumb not gonna say the word that that is coming out of his mouth this is insanity that you're you're using 20 Innings as the reason that he's better than Jack ligher it's fact he came off Tommy John the last time they play in the same league together on the same team who was better Jack lier end the story who was better in 2020 who was better in 2019 2020 Jack ler never did anything like Kumar did in his freshman season his freshman season was cancelled no I'm saying whatever Jack ligher did Kumar did it better in his freshman season than what Jack ligher did in those two years oh God should we pull up stats we should freshman season 1.72 ER for Jack ligher and uh 2019 3.25 ER for Kumar rocker so you want to you want to talk about the fact that Jack lighter didn't get enough innings in his freshman year well that's exactly what you're doing right now with his double A stats you're saying Kumar rocker was no 19 18 his freshman year Jack lier was 21 Jack ligher was 21 FR Jack lighter is not two years younger than him bro Jack ligher was 21 in his first full season of college baseball he got drafted in his first full season of college baseball he was held back a year in high school this isn't insane either way he still put up better stats in this two years in college so I don't know what you're trying to say right now 2020 he put up better stats 2021 he put up better stats like in minor league baseball Kumar rocker's worst ER is high a for Hickory and it's a 386 everything else it is actually rookie ball and it's a 643 oh shoot I missed that one regardless that's seven Innings oh so that doesn't matter but 20 Innings where he did well matters but the the rookie ball doesn't matter right the rookie ball don't matter he has 60 Innings over the last two years Jack lier has close to 90 maybe more I think Jack ligher has more this this year alone he didn't have a Tommy John in between and is that a is that a bad is that a bad thing that he didn't have Tommy John no but it gives him an excuse that he's on a different timeline than Jack ler is now and that's true that's truth if you're saying is he is better Kumar rocker's 24 years old it's not crazy for him to make a debut at 24 he's GNA do it this month if he has one good one more good outing he's gonna make it I think he's actually starting tonight let's see if he had any numbers up guys don't be like him don't be like him where he lets emotions take over and he ignores the stats don't be like it's got nothing to do with stats exactly you don't look at stats this is insanity stats matter matter dude don't be like him stats matter stats Don't Lie the ball don't lie no he didn't pitch today he'll probably pitch tomorrow but regardless I think when you look at an isolation I value throwing strikes very much you act like Jack lighter walks the house he doesn't walk the house compared to a normal human being compared a good if you compare him to my strike percentage sure no one's comparing to your strike percentage comp Kumar rocker it's not even close I'm looking at numbers right now Kumar has 11 bro oh my God this is insane go ahead say he what you want to say he has 11 walks in what say it 60 Innings that's legit stuff 60 Innings ja ler could never do that he hasn't that that's why you're basing it off his 60 Innings this year he's thrown more strikes his stuff is faster stuff he has more he has more pitches they oh my God they literally throw the same speed they don't throw the same speed Kumar consistently throws harder than Jack lighter does Jack lighter will hit a 100 but he's not hitting a 100 all the time every Kumar start he's going to hit 100 he sits 95 is that that's great but my argument is Kumar even has greater stuff he throws more pitches he throws all of them in the zone he's like a Frontline starter if he has greater stuff then why isn't in the big leagues bro every time you say this it's crazy why is he not in the big leagues if he has better stuff better starts away from being in the big leagues first of all second of all he's going to make his debut this month third of all when you are injured you have a different timeline than what was intended would he made his debut without Tommy John happening in between this year without a doubt he still might do it anyway Jack ler didn't make his debut last year yes you put jack ligher down to double a right now I guarantee you he dominates and why hasn't he historically dominated in dou a why isn't he historically dominated are insane right now like three and0 by far right now excuse me you are three you made me three and 0 alone in this PO he had like hot streak right before he got called up again to the majors he had some really good outings but before that and after he hasn't been great so a hot streak doesn't count that just means he's hot it has nothing to do with skills right a hot streak completely matters it completely matters and that's part of why he's such a great pitcher because he is a great pitcher but I think Kumar is a better pitcher because of his 60 Innings that he pitched this year at a lower level Dak ler was throwing at a lower level this year too he only pitched in Triple A he didn't pitch a single pitch in another level he only pitch in triaa in the major leagues this year start Kumar got his starts in double A after Tommy John I'm not even using the AAA argument CU that's an insane stat too but I'm not even using that I'm only using the statistics from double A and he had a 046 ra dude Jack glater didn't do that last year in double I'm sorry it's also year older than him so age doesn't really matter when you get to this point he does matter look at Jack ligher him this year and last year completely different they're both under 25 Jack lighter's lit a year younger than Kumar and he's two grade classes below him in high school Kumar rocker was thr no hitter against Duke I think there's a difference Jack ligher I know how old he is dude he has the same birthday as me Jack ligher and Kumar rocker are a 100 days apart in age that's why they're a year apart in school not a year they're both 24 years old right now both of them do you not realize that Jack lighter went to school a year after so he's a year after him in school that has a big part Jack ligher was 19 playing high schoolers bro are you stupid what I'm not stupid I'm the only one here looking at Stats which prove your argument is wrong jack ligher and Kumar rocker of the same age Kumar rocker is gonna make his debut technically faster because he got hurt this is insanity if he didn't get Tommy Johnny he would have got his call up last year all right the Tommy John Tommy John that's all I'm hearing right now that's your one argument because he has Tommy John that's not even an argument because actually hurts argument I'm not the one bringing up age because it matters Kumar rocker went to college before him if Jack ler was 23 Kumar and Jack are both 24 this is insanity you're dead wrong I'm not dead wrong I'm three and0 now because of what you said I'm two and one honestly I'm three and0 dude I am 100% I'm GNA be three and 0 with e it's even close you're not gonna be three and0 with ease you completely lost the Jack agone condom argument and I don't even want to hear it because you admitted it that you got smoked and Jackson job deg Gro you even said it to yourself you're far ahead of your time so easily three and 0 right now this one I'm right right now you just you just lost another podcast and I don't know why you think you've won you just lost another one I am correct right now so you don't think Kumar rocker being at Vanderbilt for an extra year helped him with development did Jack ligher playing high schoolers at 19 years old that's basically what you're you're saying right now he he played rookie ball and double A this year Jack L is playing Triple A and Major Leaguers this year there's a big difference you can just pound strikes against these guys jack ligher you get shelled if you do that in the big leagues he has Jack ligher has amazing stats this year in Triple A his major league stats are not good but not even that's right he got shelled in the major leagues but his ER last year in Round Rock was eight I'm telling you one year makes a difference if you back the timeline back a year because of the Tommy John oh God it close Jack ler had a 51 ra last year in double if you back it up then they'd be the same age because he went into college this a year before him so they'd be the same age right now and he's still making his major league debut before him you're not right about this argument am right I'm 100% correct not even close to right because they're literally the same age and Jack lighter stayed back years to avoid playing the higher level that literally only hurts a player he always been at that level he didn't reass back whoar just went early I think I think because his development was late he did why would he be 19 and in high school dude that's a lot of guys do you not know that a lot of guys my age at least are born in 2003 a lot of guys are born in 2001 I don't think your argument's any good about age so I would definitely get rid of that part because that's just not part of the argument is because if you go into college first you're gonna develop first you're gonna develop better in college than you are in high school and I think that's a great argument about me would you develop better at Saratoga high school or Sienna College Saratoga high school cuz cuz I was doing my thing okay to apart we're not talking about how you did on the field we're talking about which place is better for development Saratoga right because they morning lifts and they had all these practices right Saratoga hands down saying that so you can you can be SRA way out of trying to win this argument but you're not like as you develop better in a college than you do in a high school and I can't even deny that I'm you're saying Saratoga right now because you're you're trying to find a way out of this argument knows you develop better in college and then I'm not wrong for saying that that has nothing to do with does it does and you want to look at facts okay in a higher level this year there you go facts you're putting way too much onus on that I am not you're putting way too much focus on his 20 innings in double A I'm putting focus on what makes a pitcher successful that's throwing strikes that's stuff and Kumar has better stuff and strike throwing than Jack ler therefore he is a better pitcher not by far because if his stuff was really better than why didn't he pitch better at Vandy this the last time they pitched together because his stuff has improved dramatically since VY and so has lighter I wouldn't agree with that you don't think he's throwing his other pitches more that's the only difference he's not throwing his fast ball as much because he can't get away with it all right let's look up his uh velocity then pleas do all right numbers are from synergy synergy the truth bro yeah in 20 Innings it's not about 20 Innings oh had 110 Innings and he had a better number across the board you're dead wrong bro I'm sorry with the fries in the bag Jack lighter average fast ball velocity 96 and he throws five pitches Kumar throws five pitches Kumar rocker let's look at his Scouting Report from 2020 four they don't even talk about his fastball V here oh okay here quality of his mid90s fastball varied as it lacked life and command in Arizona when he worked from a lower Arn angle as usual then got more swings and misses when he threw from a higher slot in 2023 mid90s it's I don't know what you that's arbitrary you can't use that why is it arbitrary because he's literally hitting 100 every outing Jack ligher can do the same thing and he has sitting 96 Kumar rocker has better stuff and it's not close all right let's look at stuff then because Kumar doesn't have any pitches in the big league so where you can't look at his whiff Jack ligher 25% whiff on his fast ball 27 whiff on his curve 37 on his change up and this one's crazy zero with on his cutter nice but you getting there and saying that Jack ligher stuff is not very good just because he throws more his off speeds now clearly don't make any sense because he's getting whiffs you saying his stuff didn't get any better way you just thought that was like or something because that was not even you saying that his stuff didn't get any better from Vandy is ridiculous I you said the only difference is he throws his off speed more that's literally what you said that's fact fact he's getting whiffs on it I would argue his pitches I would argue his pitches were better in high school than either what like off speed pitches like his breaking ball was so much more of a hammer than it is now in high school and in vanderbelt so you're saying he got worse with some things in some aspects yeah I think so why is that well I think his fast ball is not as much of a weapon anymore because everyone sees 98 every game and his off speeds I don't know if it's because the balls are more slick or what but it seems to have affected the way it bites compared to when he was throwing in whatever different level you would imagine whether that's high school or college are you basing this off of are you basing off his spin raid in college are you basing off his whiff in college because I don't see any stats on that college I'm basing it off of I could pull up his stats I'll do it right now okay right now College whiff rates all right have access to that you know access to it yeah Synergy yep let's SP it up let's see how how many whiffs they with a 2.13 ER had what' you say his curveball whiff rate is right now I think 27 I don't know I clicked out of it but I'll get back on it what is it in College college is 43 on the curve 47 on the slider 39 on the change up 32 on the fast ball and his cutter was 17 so is it weird that like think less whiffs in the MLB I don't think I don't think that's weird either especially considering healing his 18 Innings but I think that his breaking ball has way better shape now or not now I think his breaking ball had way better shape in high school and college than it currently does where it's a little bit more slvy now and I think that is a regression in my eyes based on the way it used to act based on how his fast ball moves I think it is less advantageous for him with the way his curveball is currently moving would you say his curveball is his best breaking ball I would say his slider is his best breaking ball in the big leagues a thir Ball's better let's look at strike percentage if you look at Jack lighter strike percentage from That season he threw his fast ball 68% of the time for a strike which is phenomenal and he had no other pitch above 57% and that other one his curveball but how many pitches did he throw his other pitches his off speeds his Cutters his change ups and 1800 total pitches 1,100 fast balls 377 curves 200 sliders 75 change UPS 21 Cutters so why does it matter if his majority of pitches is in the zone at what you say 60 68% yeah the total strike percentage of 63% now let go to Kumar strikes let's go to Kumar let's go to Kumar 64% overall is fast strike what the same thing 63 64 uh percentage was less at 65 his curveball was 62 his slider was 63 his change up was 65 and his cutter was 55 his whiff rates were 60% on his curveball 48% on his slider 28% on his fast ball and 27% on his change up 20% you said on the fast ball yeah so his lest is fast ball nope change up 27 how many pitches has he thrown he threw for fast balls and change UPS team worse he threw a th000 fast balls 108 change UPS 528 curve balls and he haded 60% whiff rate on 528 of them so majority of his pitches are fast balls and he's getting what did you say 28% wh this isn't an argument about his fast ball this is about that's the majority of pitches that he throws and you're trying to say he's better because he throws more strikes he throws 1% more more strikes the last time they play in the same level he threw 1% more strikes he threw a full mix of pitches he had a 60% whiff rate on a curveball dude ler didn't even have anything above 50 and I'm not even saying like he's bad because 40 is insane and how many curve balls you said he threw 500 500 that's insane dude you can't knock that 60% with what does it really matter if his majority of pitches are getting hit maybe he should have thrown more curve balls maybe he should have thrown a thousand curve balls see what happens but he didn't and until he starts using his best pitch more you can't say he's better because he doesn't do that why didn't he he just throw 1500 he's bigger he's gonna last longer this is insane he is way more capable going deep in Innings and holding velocity compared to lighter and his facts then why didn't he pitch better because he was hurt that year you tell me he was hurt the year that he pitched more Innings than Jack ligher his velocity was down it was down two ticks his average was 96 H that doesn't mean he was hurt yes it does no it doesn't why didn't he sign in the draft if he wasn't hurt why did he sign in why did he not get signed by the Mets in that draft because they were worried about his elbow but he clearly was throwing through it he was pitching fine he was throwing through it and his velocity was down he's still had a 60% wh rate on a curveball not in all his pitches he had a 28 on his fast ball like you're talking here about saying oh he injured and stuff and like how has insane whiff rates on his curveball but like the year in 2020 was 64% Whi slider was 59% it's a little off because it's 2020 um 2019 rates were much lower that year yeah got hit a little more 50% on the curve and didn't even throw a slider so there you go another year de development he developed another good pitch so one year is a big difference in college and then you want to look at the stats now you're gonna you rebuttle that with he had one less year of development in a system because Jack ler was in a professional system for a year before Kumar got in one he was in Indie ball bro Indie ball is a professional system he was in Indie ball for six weeks Jack ler was at the Arizona complex for six months Jack glider got sent directly TOA right out of college you you know how hard that is directly to double a not even a single game in in single a straight to double a out of college if you get picked second over on I hope so pick in the first round I hope you sign he got hurt and that's a problem injury is part of baseball and if the guys that don't get injured they should be praised for that like he got injured as part of baseball so two one I'm two in one you're just talk that's right to you he has way better numbers over the last two years compared to lighter it's he's pitched like finings in the past they're the same age like using the age argument that's not using the age argument and that is they literally are not like he got into school a year before he did that's a big difference because you just prove that one year he was able to develop another pitch another nasty pitch that he threw so a year is a big difference like a year in a farm system is better than a year Vanderbilt no matter how impressive Vanderbilt's facilities are because simply put they are all in on the player at a school it is Jack Kumar rocker didn't sign he Kumar rocker got injured like you can't just be like oh yeah that doesn't just whatever he got injured part of baseball and then Jack lighter doesn't get injured oh yeah whatever doesn't get like not lighter's fault he got injured I'm sure they're good friends and they want they're cheering inj at all exactly bringing up the age thing you're bringing the oh he's not in the majors he's gonna be everyone knows he's going to be in the majors and that's not it's a crazy take because you're basing it off his 20 innings in double A this year that insane he has more than 20 innings in double A this year no he doesn't check his T he does not have more than 20 innings in double A this year last year he put up great stats as well trip in Triple A I'm going to bring it out because you're just not what do you mean he did not play in Triple A hey he just made his debut what are you talking about five innings 10ks no walks one hit my God this is insane five innings 10ks no walks one hit 10 no walks one hit five innings 10ks no walks one hit hit 100 miles an hour with five pitch mix no walks walk Jack pitch mix several walks out 12 in three point he struck out 11 in 3.2 Innings or whatever but it he didn't face well guys he faced a couple more because of hits and walks I digress you just lost by acting like that like you had won the argument you wouldn't have to be five innings 10 strikeouts five innings 10 strikeouts five innings 10 strikeout like when's the last time you had five innings 10 strikeouts why does that matter I'm a sidearm pitcher when's the last he did that last week has done that a long time 2020 yeah mine was 2022 so I did it sooner than you did does that mean I'm better than you no oh it doesn't Jack lier didn't do that you just said he struck out 12 and three point two with walks he didn't go no walks five innings 10ks oh right because Kumar rocker is just gonna go his whole career without any walks because it's five innings in Triple A he didn't walking he's on Z he has 11 walks in 60 Innings think about the people people that come back from Tommy John usually they're wild because they have a new ligament in their arm and he's not wild he's throwing more strikes than ever so you don't think he's gonna regress from that you don't he's just gonna keep going down and he's just gonna average like 20 30 walks a season I think he's going to throw a lot of strikes and usually strikes result in success and if you can throw a lot of strikes that means you're going to be closer to the zone and you can pick spots better than the person that throws right down the middle every time Jack glider grips and rips and that's okay that's a great thing that's fine but Kumar has the ability to be an All-Star and not that Jack ligher can't but Jack Jack ligher it's going to be really hard for him to be a Frontline Ace and Kumar definitely has the ability to be a Frontline Ace they both have the ability to be a Frontline Ace for the rangers they both have the ability and they both will and Jack lier is going to do better we will see within one year for this one and I can't wait to say that I'm right and you can claim this three and 0 whatever I'm three and0 claim I'm I don't care what you say claim anything I'm three and 0 and I don't care what you say you're three and 0 yeah they admited that you're gonna be two in one at the beginning of this podcast but like now I'm three and0 after this garbage I'm sick of hearing this I literally smoked you in this podcast and you're just not admitting defeat so I guess I'm three and we'll find out this is insanity that what I just heard from guys who do you think is better Kumar or Jack ler ping Triple A in the major leagues this year or the guy that pitched in in rookie ball in doublea this year with less Innings while in the lower levels and while you're at it who's better Charlie Conan or Jack kleon I know my answer it's kleon and I guarantee the comments will also Charlie con you look up his Ops the same way that you said that the most important hitting stats is Ops and then I proved you wrong in both years