Rethinking Poland - A trip to new Jewish Krakow

[Music] hi David hey Mark how you doing I'm fine I'm breathing in a different way to the way I was breathing 24 hours ago which is a very strange thing to say most things you say are strange so just to um give you a bit of context as to where we are it is December the 11th 20203 today we're about 2 months on from the terrible events of October the 7th Israel has been at War for two months David and I have been working non-stop for the last two months within our jobs that have some relationship to what's going on and we've decided that now is the time to start recording again we have absolutely no idea as we're recording this when you will be listening to this at some point the Jerusalem Post that Executives will decide we're not only going to be publishing about the war but that we will be publishing other things as well but Mark and I have to build up inventory we have to build up products we have to build up our trips so that we have what to share with you so we took the decision to travel at this time and we've come to Poland and right now we're in krov we are staying at the Lovely sasy Hotel part of the Hilton curio collection and we're currently sat in the lovely Italian restaurant around the corner from the hotel called banera we arrived on our flight from Tel Aviv with sundor which is a sub company of L about two hours ago our guide whom you may hear from a little bit later on has joined us and in the next few minutes we're going to be heading out into the Jewish quarter of this city Mark you've been here before I have I came two years ago during the outbreak of Omron so most of my time was spent trying to find a covid test visiting lots of closed shops lots of closed museums not really getting the best of crack of ordinarily when David and I come abroad we try and have a lot of fun we joke we giggle we mess around we act like school children and we try and bring that sort of fun across with everything that's going on at the moment in Israel I hope you'll understand that we will try and be a little bit more grown up on this podcast we will try and bring you some of the beautiful cultural aspects of the City some of the Jewish aspects of the city we're not going to go in the direction of a quiz question on this occasion but instead what we will do is bring forward what we normally do at the end of the podcast and that is to ask you to help us to make this podcast even better we've obviously been away for a couple of months you've got out the habit of listening to our podcast we have had a couple of special podcasts about the war and I recommend you listen to that to give some context about how the war has affected Ed travel into Israel and travel out of Israel but as David said it's important that you subscribe to our podcast you rate US you give us five stars and you sent us some feedback on our social media if you do want to be in touch with us there are two ways to do that through our social Medi at Mark davidp pod or via our Gmail Mark davidp pod gmail.com [Music] r [Music] my name is yanush maku and I'm a founder and director of a Jewish culture Festival in Kaka which actually became the Israeli Jewish culture Festival in kako which I have been organized from 36 years we're sitting in a really Pleasant Cafe light jazz music in the background I'm looking at the counter and there's Hebrew lettering there there's Je Jewish posters everywhere and the place is called Kaa what is this place and why are we here when I discovered this place I didn't know what it was over here before the second world war when we renovated this place I was wondering how should I call it and the inspiration for this place is this picture which I hang on the wall picture toen by the one of the greatest Jewish photographer Alfred kisne in 192 six in Lublin in haer so I thought myself I've been thought about it many many years that I need a space when I would be able between the additions of a Jewish culture Festival provide the basic knowledge about the religious but also secular Jewish culture so I was hesitating because I really like this name hater because instead that this is the religious school for boys it's also Hebrew means the room the space of of of our social meetings and just few days after we open it I found in the ariv that this room this hater before the second world war was a bid which belonged to the and even this finan which I put on the center of a table it is finans which are brought from yam from Jerusalem everything which we want and which we serve over here beginning from the program of the Jewish culture festival and finish on the okay let's say coffee everything is authentic we are not playing with a pasture we are not playing with a people we're trying to give them something which is located on the highest artistic and intellectual level why because we were inspired on the One Hand by the 1,000 years of a history and culture created by the Polish Jews who lived in this place on my soul and on the other hand I am inspired by the Israel which for me is a center of the Jewish life and the center of the Jewish culture and by the way the most important day and date in my opinion in whole Jewish history is in 1948 so even the krackow when we are sitting right now is located less than 60 kilomet from a bu Canal so we've never forgotten what happened over here but paying attention and paying homage to the people who lived here and who were murdered on my my land we are focused on the life we are lighting the candle of light let's look at the festival you created it in 1988 that's a Time when things were very different in Poland there were some Holocaust Survivors here all of you Jewish Catholic and others were living under the regime of the Communists how did you piece all that together and manag to weave your way into creating this Festival which is still going today in 2023 24 and know you're there I don't know I was 28 years old guy and the only thought the only feeling that time I had in my head in and in and in my heart was to do it I've never thought about the future I just wanted to organize the first edition I just wanted to share not only my fascination with the Jewish culture but my love with a Jewish culture I was right because in 1988 yes still under the Communist Regime I governed more than 100 people 100 people among these people were the Jewish guys with a keeper with very arul on his head which was a clear sign that we are Jews we are not afraid to be Jewish and we are proud to be Jewish in this land just 20 years after the Communist Regime kicked out all polish citizens because they were Jews in 1968 what is the background because as you mentioned 1,000 years you know polish and Jewish Jewish and polish culture especially after hasala of course intert and you cannot imagine So-Cal polish culture you cannot imagine So-Cal European culture without the Jewish contribution and people don't want to remember that they want to know that but I know one other guy who is like a Shamus I'm knocking to their doors and I try to wake them up to remember so on the one hand we remember what happened absolutely we will never forget what happened here I'm talking about the life and I'm talking about the death but but and this is most important significant thing the Legacy left us by Germans is a death but Legacy left us by Jews is a life I chosen life that's what I'm staying together with Israel right now culture which we treat as something very at least me very very important is our common culture the Jewish culture Festival is done by the G like me and in know non-jewish guys who work with me but the real participants real creators of a Jewish culture Festival in kako are mostly artists Scholars from Israel and from the biggest diaspora in the world mostly New York area I assume a Culture Festival in krov with Jewish culture there's a lot of kesma yes and no so I love kesma music and I know how the real kma music sounds like but there are only few in my opinion I want to end underline it it's my private opinion that there is only few really great authentic bands in the world which play the real authentic clar music and they always in cracko but since I came first time to jalam to Israel to her in 1991 with my Prejudice so-called Prejudice that oh Jewish culture is a culture created by the you know ashkanazi people in Poland suddenly I open the door to jam I opened the door to Israel and I saw the people who came to Israel in 1948 for more than 100 countries and all of them slapped you know this Heritage of the countries you know not only from Europe but from mizi countries and I heard instead of the kmer music I heard in the r the music which was very similar to the Arabic [Music] music so when IUD that this is a whole picture of the entire Jewish world and I invited on 1992 and also to create the balance one of my favorite my beloved Hava alberstein who came and sank in idish and irit of course and step by step Festival by Festival I invited more and more and more mrai artists from Israel which reflects what's going on in Israel nowadays because the festival is a living Jewish culture Festival you want to experience the real authentic music if you want to experience the really authentic culture please come to kco this year on shoka Street which was called by one of the journalist uh Jewish Woodstock where we organize a huge Open Door Council which last from 6:00 p.m. till 1:30 in the morning 7 and 1 half hours non-stop Jewish music done in the middle in the middle of Europe the only place where we can do it can you imagine this kind of a concert Open Door concert in Paris are you kidding me in England in Belgium whatever no only in this so-called anti-semitic Poland which became again the house for also Israeli people who escaped because of the war so we have a 15,000 people and suddenly on the stage we see a beautiful beautiful woman leras who invited on the stage three women from Iran from Iran and two of them had a cover faces because they still live in Taran the priz for attending the Jewish culture Festival in kco is also life and death both but we are not afraid as Rabbi nman from brat used to say and we used to sing Etc so we are never afraid never never there were Jewish people around the world who Tred to run festivals but the passion that you as a non-jew have put into this for the vast majority of your life you must be crazy you must be muga thank you so much for being as crazy as you are oh I tell you something barash I am a Michigan of course absolutely I agree and I think that this is one of the way how we can not change the world no forget it you know all with all respect with all respect tiam is a good for the people who want to you know send a message to the people who are de no start from yourself be honest with yourself this is the only way how you should be and must be honest with the world let's do like what I have done with with my family the festival is a family we created some kind of a Jewish Israeli polish family and this is the most important achievement nothing [Music] else remember that [Music] good evening my name is Yola yolanta I am a GU in kov also in the Jewish quarter and now we are really on the Broad Street shoka Street which is a heart of the Jewish quarter for centuries because even from 12th century you can say yeah and it's a really very lovely beautiful place is a nice evening yes sday and really we can feel the climate of the former Jewish quar if you if you look around if you look at the old houses at synagogues like old synagogue which is the oldest old synagogue in in the city uh and one of the oldest in Poland of course and the second one called Rama synagogue yes so it was built by very rich mean yes so Moses isless in the 16th century to his son who was the famous Rabbi called Ru you know yeah uh yes so old Jews respected him because he was very talented he finished the Yeshiva School in in Lublin when he was only 18 years old yeah and he became the rabbi of the kov Jewish community and until to his death yeah so because he died in the same year like one of the Polish Kings zigot AUST yeah in 1572 yeah so the Rama synagogue because we called it like that it is still in use just one still used by Jewish community of religious Jews of course but in former times it was only used by the rabama his family and friends yeah but it is still possible to see the place in which rabi Rama used to sit down you and to explain to pray of course yeah and there's a also cementary yes so joining synagogue uh there's a oldest jent preservative from the 16th century Rabbi mosis is buried in the symmetry uh yes of course he is it is you know just buried behind yes so the synagogue it's easy to recognize his grave because he's a very beautiful gravestone very beautiful sculptured he was buried under the tree you know right it is also easy to find it h and of course his wife the family was buried there yeah the CER was a little bit destroyed demolished by Germans at the time of the second world war but fortunately it's possible to reconstruct you know some Matas it shows also you know the old polish Jewish history we can say yeah it's really worth to see Mark one of the things that YOLO has been telling us is that with perhaps the exception of the cemetery in a couple of other places this area of Casmir and indeed the rest of krakov they were originally two separate cities but are now joined are largely untouched because the Germans decided to make this their Regional Capital you're the expert at describing things describe where we are right now Poland thank you very much indeed you at the start of this you said no humor so I see you stuck to that you can cut that out we're in a square and it feels ever so Jewish it's the fifth night of Hanukah and behind us is a large hania with lights lit center of the square everyone can see it and as you work your way around the square you see a number of restaurants a number of Israeli Jewish style restaurants there's one called SA there's one called Aviv behind me is a hotel called the hotel Rubenstein which I believe Yola told us is two doors up from where the famous cosmetician Helena Rubenstein was born behind me is the altar the old synagogue this feels so so Jewish apart from the Christmas lights which are also here I think perhaps that's a beautiful part of the town and we're very lucky that we're here at this time of year but is this blend of the Jewish history and of course the the Christian culture as well is are like you know something common between the Jewish and you know Christians yes so we can say the Jews were always the part of the Polish culture polish history polish Heritage you know many Jews were doctors of Polish Kings yes and they always supported respected them yes is a really huge part of our common Heritage yeah and even in nowadays you can feel that yeah because you can feel you know the the climate of the Jewish festivals but also the Christmas time yes so so important for Christianity for Christmas yes I think [Music] yeah kov fact file krov is served by John Paul II International Airport kov Bita there are direct flights to kov from Aviv with alal subsidiary sundor you can fly into the city from Dubai and Abu Dhabi and many cities across Europe including Amsterdam Paris and Frankfurt and numerous cities in the UK it's a 30 minute taxi ride from the airport to the Oldtown and 15 minutes longer by public transport there are buses and a train service to the tourist areas of the city we stayed in the comfortable and superbly located hotel sasy krov part of the curio collection by Hilton as you would expect from such a popular destination there are many hotels to choose from among them the hotel h15 luxury Palace and the Windam Grand krov Oldtown in Casmir the Jewish quarter there are many apartment rentals the Holiday Inn offers kosher food one US dollar will buy you 3.93 polish zti as of the end end of 2023 the climate of kov is moderately Continental characterized by Cold Winters with temperatures often below freezing and pleasantly warm Summers perhaps the best time to visit kov is from miday to mid-september since it's the warmest and sunniest period of the year it can be hot in July and August while in other circumstances nights can be cool or slightly cold even in these months so it can be useful to bring a sweat shirt or sweater and a light jacket for the evening there's an incredible variety of dining options in the city with an abundance of traditional Polish food and Italian cuisine for fancy local Delicacies try cernus or the somewhat cheaper hea and banera is a great bet for Italian food fantina will set you back a fuse Wati but it's an experience there are lots of vegan and vegetarian restaurants in town as for kosha well first of all remember that most of the Jewish style eer in the kazmir's district are not Kosher but do pop into ker for a coffee there's a kosher store in the kabad house and falafal shelanu in the Jewish District offers a mix of dairy [Music] meals this is Mark Gordon from the Jerusalem Post podcast travel Edition find us on Facebook Instagram and Twitter at Mark davidp pod or mail us at Mark davidp pod [Music] gmail.com we're in one of the strangest offices of a CEO I think I've ever been in Mark I love it you're the description man I've just suddenly spotted a bobblehead up there I think is a new y Bubblehead something of that nature so clearly there's somebody American in here okay there are God knows how many old televisions he put around the building there's some fabulous leather chairs it's just really colorful there's also a Darth Vader mask bottles of beer it's eclectic so let's talk to the man who has put all of this together but it's not the only thing that he put together please meet Jonathan orstein who is the CEO of the Jewish Community Center in kov how do you you end up as an American as the CEO of The JCC in krackov could be a whole new movie instead of An American in Paris yes An American in krackov well New Yorker first of all but uh I was living in Israel where I had made Aliyah and was a lone soldier and I was living back on kibuts after the Army and I met a Polish woman and fell in love and sight on scene I came to Poland in 2001 it didn't work out with her and I just liked crackout so I decided to stay and in 2008 they were building The JCC and I was literally the only one in the country who knew what the letters JCC stood for and evidently that was enough to get me the job how's your polish for an American it's unbelievably excellent for uh the rest of the world my polish is pretty good what do you do here at the JCC we are dedicated to rebuilding Jewish life in krackow our community was greatly decimated over 90% of Polish jewry over 90% of cow's Jews were murdered in the Holocaust and then the survivors were either left or pushed out of the country or driven underground and in the last 33 years since communism ended we have a couple fascinating things going on one is the Deep fascination with Everything Jewish among a large segment of Polish non-jewish society which has created an atmosphere that enables the second cool thing happening which is Young polls are finding out that they have Jewish roots and we're reaching out to them and trying to bring them back into the fold our tour guide Yola has been taking us around the Jewish District or the former Jewish district and we've seen seven reconstructed synagogues and renovated synagogues not reconstructed Warsaw would have been reconstructed in cracko they were all left in very good shape we've seen in addition lots of restaurants with Jewish names A viiv and hamsa and even though that's Arabic but how much is that Jewish crack of it's right across the road pretty much from where you are we jokingly call it Jurassic Park which uh especially because it that whole revitalization of the Jewish quarter the best preserved Jewish quarter anywhere in Europe started after Stephen Spielberg came here in 1993 to film Schindler's List so the whole Spielberg connection makes that I think you know relevant it's important because most places in Europe calling something Jewish or calling your restaurant Jewish is not something that you're going to do to attract business but here because of the history because of how Jewish this quarter was and how well preserved it is it makes sense for these restaurant owners generally who aren't Jewish to focus on the Jewish history by having these sort of Jewish is restaurants no matter how you look at those restaurants and we joke sometimes that it's kosher style pork although it's not really that bad the non-jews have helped create an environment here which is a big focus on Everything Jewish uh which then helps the these young people who are finding out that they have Jewish roots it makes them I think more likely to take those steps into an institution like ours so I think that this whole focus in the Jewish quarter and we call it the Jewish quarter not the former Jewish quarter the whole focus in kmir this Jewish quarter on on Everything Jewish is something that I think is very positive for our community coming into the JCC there are three flags outside the Polish flag the Israeli flag and the Ukrainian flag how Central are each of the countries to Life In The JCC uh very Central at this point we are a Polish institution so a Polish flag uh is up we for the last uh almost two years have been incredibly focused on helping Ukraine we've helped so far 250,000 Ukrainian refugees 98% of whom are not Jewish there's a food pantry that's been open every single day since the second day of the war that means seven days a week Shabbat Yom kipur Christmas Day New Year's Day so the Ukrainian element of what we do is very important this very tikun focused and since October 7th we are doing all we can to support Israel to support Israelis displaced Israelis that are in krao and there are many of them that's why there's an Israeli flag on our building there's a giant bring them home Banner on our building and there's hostage posters up all over our building as well you've got hostage posters at the front of the building in other cities around the world people have been taking them down does does it feel safe to be Jewish or Israeli in krov nobody has taken our posters down it feels to me I've been living here uh as a Jew in kakow well living here in kakow always as a Jew wherever I live but living here uh Jewish in Krakow for 23 years and I feel like it's a very safe place there really of course there's anti-Semitism here as there is I guess everywhere but it doesn't manifest itself as a threat to our community we feel very good here Jews and non-jews are in this institution not only working but you have over 70 non-jewish volunteers here at our JCC who are young polls who feel the country lost something when its Jewish population was mostly murdered and now they have an opportunity not only to learn about this mysterious Fascinating People the Jews that have lived in Poland for a thousand years but actually work hand inand with this reborn revitalized Jewish community and help us rebuild Jewish life [Music] [Music] there are 850 members of this JCC there are so many activities for example as we keep say saying we're in the middle of Hanukah as we're recording this and tomorrow evening there is a donut and lka making session with a member of Staff who is also a chef and very happy to teach people those skills you also told us that 100,000 non-members come through here every year we're a travel podcast so I guess to some extent we're interested in those people who are they where are they coming from and can anybody come in here kraco is one of the most visited cities in Europe it's ATI historic medieval city with a massive University presence so it all the vibe of a big college town so for you know it's getting a lot of visitors and more and more certainly Americans and American Jews are coming to Poland and historically they would come here to learn about the loss to go to awit to go to the camps maybe to go to the Schindler Factory and now they realize that there is a reborn Jewish Community here and it's important when Jewish life is growing to somehow connect to that so you know we say that it used to be aitz period and now it's aitz comma and when those more than 100 I think before the last year before covid 2019 I think it was almost 140,000 visitors that came in they're not really coming in necessarily to see something you know they're always rotating exhibitions but they're coming in here and many of them are Jewish to connect to this reborn Jewish community that they had no idea was here and that people more and more understand that when there's Jewish life blooming that you have a responsibility to see to it to connect it and by doing so you're helping to nurture it on the door coming in there's a sign that mentions the Prince of Wales who is now King Charles how is he involved with the JCC we're very proud of our Royal connection King Charles actually conceived of and founded our Center he was in krackow in 2002 on aate visit and as part of his visit he met with some Holocaust Survivors now we still have about 50 Holocaust Survivors that we're caring for here at the JCC but he met with a few of these Holocaust Survivors 20 years ago and he was moved by their history and he asked them how he could help them and they said we have all these beautiful synagogues but we don't have a place to be together and he promised to help them realize their dream of a Jewish senior citizen's home in krackow he went back to the UK got involved with an organization called World Jewish relief they did a bit of research and realized that it wasn't only this Survivor population trailing off that young polls were starting to find out about their Jewish identity so they went back to the then Prince saying we'd love to do a project what if we do something even bigger than a senior center like a JCC and in his eminent wisdom he said yes and he gave some of his personal funds to help build the center and World Jewish relief raised the money in the UK and in April 2008 then the Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall came to krackow and spent the day with us and opened our JCC he subsequently became the patron of world Jewish relief I've met with him afterwards in London and briefed him about our work that we're doing he's very proud of our our work with Ukraine he's let us know that he really believes that we're doing a tremendous job and he's happy to still be involved perhaps most Jewish people perhaps most Israelis who come to Poland tend to be looking at the past at the history what about the future where are we going what's going to be here people come to Poland saying kades and they leave saying how did people find out about the JCC in kraco and what's going on people can find out by listening to wonderful podcasts on the Jerusalem Post they can also go to our website friends ofjcc cra.org or JCC cra.org we're incredibly active on uh social media Tik Tok Facebook Instagram Twitter wherever you like and they a 501c3 Jonathan onstein CEO of The krackow JCC thank you very much it was my pleasure thank [Applause] you cheers Mark cheers David what are you on oh about my fifth or six it is good to relax and to have Fine Food and in this case a rather fine locally produced vodka this particular one is black current current and there are raspberry I've had the pine how was it very lovely very smooth so all of these were recommended To Us by our next guest could you introduce yourself and tell us where we are hello my name is Isabella I'm a manager of he in CCO so the name Kev for some Jewish people or Israelis listening they might be familiar what is Kev the building it was the Jewish House of Prayer Heim but the he means colleagues friends yeah it's an extraordinary building really beautiful high ceilings it's very well lit and as you look around there are Fresco all over the wall with Hebrew writing you can see that over time they faded but these are the original Fresco tell us a little bit about the history of this building and how it became hea the building was built in 1896 and then it was a Jewish House of Prayer after that for 50 years it was a dancing school Ensemble called kovat and as you can see the floor is from 50s and 60s you can feel the spirit of this building it's something very very unique actually now H is a more Culture House traditional in mind and modern in spirit actually so it's a very special place in kajim District do you feel a big responsibility looking after such a historic building and trying to integrate it into the modern Community yes I can feel it and I really want to make it good and proper and with respect of the history of the building and respect with the local people here also and I really love this building I love the atmosphere here and I feel really really like at home talk to us a little bit about how it's used you've hinted at it talking about the art the culture but give us some more specific we are organizing a lot of uh events here upstairs and downstairs there are two rooms uh which one we are using for art fashion meetups references and also the festivals we are a part of a lot of festivals in kco so um have become a house for local festivals for local events also we've got the restaurant but there's two rooms more that we are actually doing our events there are some acknowledgements of the history of the building some Polish food some Jewish food some Jewish wines can you tell us something about them we try to make it more local uh we are serving breakfast here for example we have free range eggs we try to support the local farmers our main cart it's more International actually we've got some Jewish food also but we've got also some boards that you can actually share with uh some pastas with cheese and with for example vegan cheese also so there are some things that you can also share and try different kind of food as Marcus said you're in a historic building you're in a historic area this area is also the home to many people how do you integrate how do you say to your neighbors we want to be part of this community if we're going to have music we don't want to scare you away with loud noise and so on how do you find that blend in this res idential area actually I talk with people every day you know when I meet them on the street I just talk with them and I ask about how they feel is everything was okay do they heard some music or do they need something we support our neighbors we do a lot of things you know to help them and we try to organize some events that and we invite them also for example for some concerts we give them some uh tickets for example for some events that I don't know Cinemas or things that we are actually organizing here and we try to be a part of the community because the community in kajim is huge and the lots of people they live here still and we want them to be here we want to have those small shops they are still here we still want them we don't want we don't want to lose them so we support them also if I am visiting krakov how do I find out what what's going on at hea and what's on the menu you can check our Instagram or our Facebook also and we are organizing a lot of events the name of the place is HRA h v r e Isabella thank you so much indeed for the interview and for your hospitality thank you very much it was a pleasure [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Mark I think at the start of this podcast that we began recording yesterday morning or two days ago whenever it was we talked about the difficulty of putting out a podcast right now with so much bad news tragic stuff and also good news coming out of Israel and it was really important for us when we came to krakov to talk about the Jewish Community outside of Israel how it's feeling right now we had a long conversation with Jonathan at the Jewish Community Center which we didn't include in the recording about the feelings right now of the locals both Jewish and non-jewish about everything that is happening as we record back in Israel in terms of the war and the loss and there is this total sympathy understanding and support from everybody that we've met in a couple of days here for the Israeli position and everything that Israel is fighting for and the understanding that what Israel is fighting for is also to defend a country like Poland these as David said are very difficult times but we we wanted to bring you some stories of Hope and coming to Poland which the Israeli government now rates as one of the safest countries to come coming to hear the story of a community starting to be reborn starting to see hanuk in the street meeting people people who are running Jewish cultural festivals Jewish community centers General community centers in Jewish buildings old synagogues that have been brought back to life 50 60 70 years after they were last Jewish institutions this for me has given me something to look forward to it's made this trip worthwhile just completely anecdotally we posted some Hanukah photographs to our social media at mark David pod and one of the people commented and said before I heard about your visit I never had thought about going to Poland other than going to Holocaust sites but now I understand that there is something special here a growth of Jewish Community working together both krackov municipality the Jewish Community Center and so on that maybe I would consider coming here not just to see those sites but also to spend a good few days in the ma pska region we're not saying we're going to forget we've certainly discussed it openly and very wholly with our guests over the last few days that we've been in krov but we also wanted to show that krakov as a city has changed the attitude of people here is very different to one would imagine and there is a community here bigger than people think more active than people think and very proud of who they are and very much open to who they are so on that note we should say a very big thank you to those people who had that conversation with us some of whom you've heard and the ones you did hear were Yola and Isabella and yanush and Jonathan on behalf of them and ourselves we thank you for listening please do subscribe tell everybody about the podcast share it with them gives a fstar rating write comments ask us questions via email Mark davidp pod gmail.com and for everybody out there keep safe keep smiling and keep the faith and may 2024 bring everybody listening to this and to all of your families and your friends a healthy happy and wonderful year [Music]