Tim Ard's livestream

e e during a recent question and answer session this request was posted you should do a podcast on a subject of participant Focus what do they expect and what they plan to do with the training they receive that more on this week's edition of along the forest apps Road [Music] podcast sometimes particip ipants and even managers don't realize what training can do for them it's new it's different than what they're used to and what they've done before their experience is or may not be at the same level of the training information once I had a gentleman who was so frustrated with my instruction because he didn't think the training was worth his time he got so mad and threw a chainsaw at me but less than a year later after he realized he learned something and practiced it he won our regional logger competition in Virginia utilizing the techniques he first thought were useless many workers specialize in specific tasks they were hired to do but what about the annual work or emergency tasks that everyone is on call to do why is it hard to hold training for employees on General topics like emergency storm cleanup what about high manual work environments like annual cleanup projects Etc this would be training for chainsaw or other workplace equipment operations maybe even mowers or trimmers chippers lifts Etc a lot of training that's given on this type of equipment comes from manufacturers while it's coming from people who share proper information they often turn it into sales presentation The Price is Right usually no charge but the info is not always focused to the operator's technique and planning that's part of operator education for sure but doesn't always complete the process in developing an operator who can be a leader in the crew one that's maintaining safety and productivity it's not necessarily respecting the task and safety of the worker unless a level of ability is developed from the information given in training what are some of the areas of importance that multiple employees would or should be required to participate in I received a message from Doug prerto he's retired head of Forestry at calpal University in California he wrote some thoughts on what good instruction is and I'd just like to read through those for you I've taught hundreds of classes to thousands of students I know great teaching when I see it instructor provides easy to understand lectures then instructor has each student complete a number of competitive Hands-On learning by doing exercises the beauty in this type of teaching approach is threefold one essential learning occurs in the classroom that then must be applied by the student in Forest situations using specific forestry equipment and techniques two students are closely supervised as they complete each competitive grade field exercise three students who have completed instructor learn by doing classes all comment that instructor's classes are awesome and four congratulations for our outstanding teaching and outstanding careers and in instructor has a plan and specific program not just watch and imitate but create a thinking and planning system to raise the skill level of the participant and the group in safety and productivity so I ask what are some things to consider when committing to a training Workshop did you just become a chainsaw owner have you chose to volunteer on storm cleanup projects maybe your plans are to start a tree care business equipment training requirements are you considering a job in the logging business firewood business tree maintenance right away will you be communicating with the customer maybe you don't want to consider the work environment and how the company and or co-workers approach the work site how long does it take to be considered trained what's the time commitment that takes how much actual time is required to be qualified or be comfortable with a job task does a certificate mean you're trained and capable what's the supervisor's responsibility to manage employees to train them knowing they're trained for that particular workplace even if a person has experience in a similar business is the task equipment workplace or Cod workers the same in this case is there still a time or a need for training I hope this podcast is giving you some things to think about we're going to be discussing these topics and More in coming episodes of along the four staffs Road and we'd love for you to join us on Thursday nights also for Thursday night saws Live on YouTube and Facebook or you can check it out in recorded version on our YouTube channel at Forest apps so thanks for dropping by this is Tim hard your host wishing you good s [Music] [Music] [Music] hi Tim hard here welcome to Thursday night saws hopefully we got everything kind of coming together here tonight and uh hope you are doing well I had some comments already from Jack Spencer goes back a while and also Brian Wagner Brian is a retired trainer now well I don't think he's retired I think he still works some when he can but uh he he says he's retired anyway but Brian's down in Florida now but uh looking forward to tonight I want to kind of talk a little bit about um that video that I just played um and discuss a little bit on training participant Focus I had uh somebody ask a question on that just a two three weeks ago and I've been working to try to get something put together on it it looks like we got uh Keith is signing in you'll have to unmute there sir I hope uh hope all is all is well and I need to get uh recorded here there it is how you doing Keith doing well much better than I deserve you've been you've been down south had you way down south been a little bit east so you you were down in in South Africa was that what you said while a couple South not Sudan oh okay no you're you're kind of slow on the on the video tonight it's kind of broke up a little bit huh but you in uh you're in sedan when did you when did you get back Sunday Sunday very good good to have you back yeah thanks it was a great trip so uh you working on some projects down there yeah market assessment just uh seeing how best to help the situation we got a few projects going on there and down there helping the teams gather some data cool in a in a forested area or you you don't you don't get a chance to run a saw down there huh no not not in that environment W that's cool I'm glad you're back uhoh dog fight going on in there but I don't know who's going to join in tonight but I uh I put together a a a video I had a a message came from U Doug prerto I don't know if you ever heard of him but he was a he was a retired head of the far Street Department for calalo University out in St Louis abiso California and um I had worked with Doug and some of the students over the years at the Swanton Ranch and we did some work out in the Redwood area and some different things several years ago and U Doug's retired he's been retired now for uh I don't know probably five six years I lose track of time but but um he's got a a place up in uh in Michigan I think or Wisconsin I gu it's Wisconsin cuz he's got one of those chees head things I think but he's he's uh he wrote a a piece that was it's pretty pretty cool he he um he checks in on me since I had the issues being kind of under the weather healthwise but he um he sent a message the other day that um had four four points on it I thought was was pretty cool and got me to to thinking number one was a essential learning occurs in the classroom that then must be applied by the student in Forest situations using specific forestry equipment and techniques and uh he was talking about the this was things that he considered over his time of of being good and struction for uh and mostly relating to forestry but you quite a bit to chainsaw operation and um number two thing was was students would be closely supervised as they complete each competitive graded field exercise and three students who have completed instructions learn by doing classes all commit that instructor classes are are awesome in other words they it's classes that you know are handson and you learn by doing stuff out there with the students and and basically the um the students are are excited you know they they think that they're they're they're getting something out of it and then then looking at overall a good program usually ends up with uh congratulations on outstanding teaching and an outstanding career and um you know that's that's looking at an instructor that's that's what we all strive to do as we're trying to teach people things is is looking at um you know being being able to to be uh thanked for for what we've we've tried to achieve over the years and so I thought uh thought that was pretty cool of him to to send that in and kind of go over some of that and it it got me you know thinking about it an instructor uh has to have a plan and a specific program and then not not just watch and imitate you know the students wouldn't just watch them and then imitate and I see that a lot in a lot of business settings but an instructor would create a a thinking and planning process to raise the skill level of the participants and the group if there is one in in safety as as well as maintaining or Building Product it and so the the thing that that I I got to to really thinking about is is trying to as we've talked about in some of our Legacy programs Keith that you've been part of is is trying to get people up to a up to a certain level and to be able to do that is to uh try to have a a program that's basic but yet uh you know covers necessary need needed things that help people to start building their own planning process and I thought that's uh that's kind of a um a hard thing to do sometimes when it comes down to it but I've got a a few things here of some things to consider when uh committing to a training Workshop because when I I started to to look at um as I said begin my training participant focus in other words what what do what do does someone think about when they are going to U you know to a a training class or or maybe their boss sent them to it or or maybe in your case you you've worked with a lot of volunteers over the years on on different uh storm sites and things and and to be able to to kind of consider what what would be you know uh important areas that that need to be covered we talked about you know different training things and all with step by step but um what are some things to consider when committing to a training workshop and there what what does a participant really need to consider and I got to thinking there's there's so many different types of of participants that that we start with you agree with that yeah yeah how do when you when you think about trying to to to build a program that's a level you know for for a lot of different uh skill levels as well as applications um what are what are some things to to think about and one of them is you know a lot of times in the classes you get people who who've just become a chainsaw owner or you could say operator at that time it might be somebody with with no no real time on the handles of a chainsaw and definitely not with any maintenance or that kind of an area but you know I I got to thinking it's not only that that we think immediately about somebody firewood or something like that but it it could be a new person on a crew you know whether it be logging or tree care or disaster group or or whatever that could be somebody that's that's new to the to that operation and even though they've got uh quite a number of hours of of experience in it when you when you go to a a new operation of any type you you got to kind of back up and and think about what what level are they on and so that's that's something to me that's kind of kind of tough sometimes to to be able to uh to look at and to to figure out where where do I start do I just start answering questions or do I take and I start uh uh going through Basics that that are required you know really at some point in time with the chainsaw operation so if any of y'all have any any ideas out there if you send in any questions or your thoughts on that or you know I've Got U I've got the ability now if you if you'd like um I've got the a join I'll put it up there it's um passcode and all for um see if I can drag that over just a little bit for the for the zoom meeting come on T there we go so that's the the join in on the meeting uh you can do that if you've got if you got zoom on your phone or computer but that's um that's something that if we um we think about that Keith what how do you how do you consider going about that you know when when you got u a mixed group where you've got somebody that's that's new to a site I think you can uh you can start by quizzing them and asking them what have you done with a chainsaw before and um you know oh I've fallen trees all over the place or I've just bought one and I've you know barely run it um you know here here are the experiences and then um I think you know it's one of those good experiences versus bad experiences and uh I I would I would immediately of course go to the safety aspect and say um you know have you secured all the the necessary protective equipment and is that a practice that uh that you apply um on every operation because that's that's kind of the first step doesn't really matter um how good you are and how how good the saw is um if you know if you're not using the safety gear and you don't have a mindset for safety to begin with then that's the first thing you got to start with and so that's kind of like module one and just PPE and and um say you know how many of you wear it every single day and if nine hands go up out of 10 then uh guess what that 10th person needs to hear um you know that that information it's new to them and so maybe along the way the the other folks will you know you'll reiterate the importance and help them to understand that um you know there are limitations that's something that I I I always see when I go to to tree workshops or uh festivals um there's usually a gear Tech and you'd be amazed at how many people are climbing on Saddles that are 15 20 years old and how many of their helmets are eight or 10 years old and you know it's it's one of those there there are some gray areas but if you've got a piece of gear that's more than 10 years old doesn't really matter if it's life support or if it involves your safety um it needs to be cycled out that's just an industry standard and so you know switching back over to what do we know wh why why would people say this they say it because there are standards well where do those standards come from they come from real life experiences just like you've had and so if you could Circle and and kind of pull that back in I think that would help them focus and and understand that uh you know the safety is first and foremost and you got to use the gear and but you got to let the gear do its do its job and hopefully you never have to find out whether the those chaps work well or not but if if you do then um they're certainly not going to work sitting in the back seat of the truck um as opposed to being on your legs so that that's where I would begin like you say it can't it can't work unless you got it right you got to be able to use it and if it's too old you don't want it to to break you know so there has to be a some type of inspection that goes on and stuff what what do you think um let let's say that that somebody storm uh up at a a volunteer situation on a on a storm cleanup you got a you got a work site there that you as an instructor or as a organizer are kind of responsible for and um you know if you if you think about it from from the aspect I know you've talked to hundreds of people that way what what are some of the the thoughts out there are are they really open to picking up on the information of you like you said if they've never used chaps or protective apparel or maybe they've got a different type of Chainsaw or whatever it might be how what what's their thought process if we kind of kind of get into the mode of of the participant there most of them are uh they're there to help the reason they came was to to help folks out and so in in our presentations uh at least when I would do it and I think most of my my colleagues that still do that um and I know Chris does it with every single orientation that he puts on um you don't give people an option you just tell them if you're gonna be running a saw you're G to be wearing the safety gear you so you kind of remove the option from the the very beginning but it's more than just um you know volent told and telling them they have to you you kind of explain it well we we last thing we want to have happen is to contribute to the injuries um that are reported for this storm and um you know there's a lot of people who got hurt when that wall fell on them or that tree hit their car and uh we don't want you to be another part of the statistics so it's it's one of those things where you kind of try your best to let them know how much you care about them um how much we care about the people we're going to go help and that there is a bigger pict here it's more than just what your individual um mode of operation is there there are other people involved and when it comes to an organization uh especially as big as Samaritans Pur it's it's simply a liability we we want to keep you safe um because we've got a reputation to uphold and and it's our job if you're willing to come help us it's our job to keep you safe as much as we can and the only way uh that we can do that is to assure sure in every way we can that you're given the opportunity to operate in a safe environment but that begins with you having the right attitude and so we've had people who we've gone and talked to on a site that are you know doing something that's that's less than safe or it's something they've done always done before for 20 years and I distinctly remember a gentleman in Nan Georgia who uh was having trouble with the saw and and uh it was almost like there were two conversations going on then and we said uh you know it looks like there's some trouble here can can we help you with that I've been running a saw for 20 years and it's like well that's that's great thank you so much for for bringing that skill that that experience to the table to to help your neighbors here but uh you know we we're trying to figure out how we can help you with this situation the guy just was hry I hean just was so upset and uh essentially took his toys and went home they were going home at lunch anyway and and it was 12:00 they were leaving at 12:30 he just put the saw down and walked away and um I told the other staff member that was there I said you know I hate that the guy got offended by the fact that we're trying to keep him safe but in my mind it's a win if he's not willing to comply and do do what he needs to do to operate that unit safely and it was a 44 an 04 44 with a 25 in bar I mean it's not a you know it's not that any one saw or another saw is more dangerous than another but with that kind of power you got a lot more opportunity for Kickback especially in the circumstance that that uh he was um using the the saw in and so um although it kind of hurt his feelings at the end of the day he went home safe and sound and so uh it's just that comfortable medium how do you balance upholding the the law the rules the policy um with trying to you know ensure that people know that that they're cared for and that we want to make sure they they've got a every opportunity to have a positive experience but that has to go through those Basics those fundamentals of staying safe and safe operation with the Saw making sure the Saw's got good good running order um that you've gone through your rdt uh module steps and the saw is safe to you functioning yeah you just go from there yeah yeah so you know if you if you start to to think about I know sometimes um kind of putting it into a work uh business type aspect is we have a lot of times people will hire somebody and uh you know they they've got some experience with the saw or whatever but if they if they get on that operation um you know working with a a different supervisor or different co-workers or it might be even it's a different site and that's what you get into and you get into storm stuff for sure everything has to be planned out separately because every you know storm situation is different well every tree and a logging situation or Tree Care situation is is different also so you you start you start thinking that that person no matter what type of experience they have um you know still has to kind of mold into that that particular crew or that particular situation so having the same um training techniques which are are usually developed through teaching of a an owner or supervisor or coworker or whatever to be able to take and and kind of get a an even playing field there uh is is so so important and uh you know that's there there's so much to it that that a lot of people don't don't really consider there do they I got a a thing here from from um hey Michael Kelly how are you doing Brian Wagner sent in he said to he said hey Tim not on Zoom but I would like to commit on EX comment on Extreme Heat and the training process with temps in the midnight 9s and muggy things get tough on an educational basis dressed in all the required PPE and working on steep terrain sometimes the attention level may not be optimal about the same thing when I was in the north east below zero temperatures could be a problem just some thoughts and we or temperature can affect the learning process he says be good and I I find that to be very true over the years um and in in a lot of cases a lot of the first training days are kind of demonstration and uh everybody's kind of watching the instructor but if it if it's 95 degrees out there the instructor is sweating a good bit and you get you get people trying to find a shady spot and you know all of that but it it does a lot of wear and tear when it when it comes to you know somebody who's uh um in a class whether you know eight or 10 people or oneon-one or whatever it is there there's so many times when the the weather is an issue and I know up where Brian come came from before he um been up at um Paul Smith and it would be you know 10 11° and 5T of snow and we'd dig around the trees and I I'd go back for a followup in the in the fall and uh we'd have twoot stumps out there because we thought that we had dug down to the bottom of the snow and so it it makes such a big difference um you know thinking about U quality training and and and how it's it's handled and the other thing is it takes time to do that I mean you you you've got to a lot the time to be able to have a training program uh that's going to even out the The Experience load but then it also takes time sometimes to be able to make it through different scenarios um and there's very few times Brian could probably say a lot about this is in the log Woods which he did for years um is is every tree is is different and you get out there and then all of a sudden you've got a tree that you're pretty used to and then you get on a site to where you've got uh you know 40° slopes um it makes it makes a whole new world of planning process that goes on there and then the next time is you got snakes or you got this that and another you know there all kinds of all kinds of issues that you that you get into and so there's there's so many things to the training process that that that people don't always recognize when it when it comes down to it and that's that's something that's U it's important when we put together those those four steps that Dr Doug was talking about there because it it it really makes a difference to to get people up to a level that need to be you know it could be that um also they um somebody is planning to to start a tree business you know tree care business or logging business and then you've got all of the things of equipment training that that goes in there too and i' I've seen this a lot with the volunteer groups but also City County and state um and then some times with a lot of the the logging training that I've done over the years uh the whole the whole group would be virtually new employees and yeah they they they've run some saws all the way up through the years a little bit but they they really haven't been on logging crws it might have been on right away or they might have cut a lot of firewood growing up or or whatever it is but when you when you get out there and you start to to put it into an application um you know the training requirements are are pretty important that you you think through that and that kind of goes back to uh what you were saying about industry standards um you know where do they where do they come into play because we we can learn so much from those and there's a lot of people who don't uh who don't consider them important you know it's the the time on the saw and how long you've been doing it and that kind of stuff that's that's going to make a difference but a lot of times we we pass up a a lot of good information that's shared in training programs or in in um you know um different requirements from insurance or from OSHA or um ansy standards those kinds of things that if we would make ourselves aware of them that it's um it's something that can save you a lot of time and all of a sudden light bul comes on and same thing I've always preached for years of operators man uh I go into different things with groups that are you know their their task is to do a a spring cleanup around a town or a city and they've got eight or 10 employees that work in the maintenance department and they don't run chainsaws all year long but when um when the spring hits and they've got a lot of drains to clear and roadways to clean you know they they have to have to start considering the the um you know the basics to to kind of go over because and refresh themselves and they get out there and and and start working with it and you have to think about how those basics of an operators manual and and those industry standards and those kinds of things can can help us to um uh refresh our our our skills in our planning processes and that's what can really maintain the safety so very important there Michael Kelly if you're still on there why don't you you uh you have zoom on your on your phone I put the the passcodes up there and all or either give me your thoughts you know if you can type fast enough there but I don't know you're from South Alabama so you take time if you need to you slowly what do you think Keith there's a lot to that is there absolutely over the next two or three weeks I've got about five or six different areas I like for us to kind of go down through go ahead I was just going to reiterate you you know it all starts with a plan if it's a you know the old cliche of uh failure to plan is a plan to fail and and you know it starts with your personal protection of equipment it's it also includes your conditions yeah if you're in freezing temperatures then you've got more than just your PPE to consider you've got your apparel and and if you're in hot environments if you're in uh you know windy environments um you really need to have an organizational alignment that you know everybody's on the same page and I think that is one of the U the biggest trends that I'm so appreciative of that uh We've we've adopted to a great degree which is um you know having that safety meeting on a daily basis because when you go to a new site it's just like you say every time you walk up to a tree it's a new new tree it's a new scenario and this tree may look identical to the previous tree but you still need to go through all five steps of the the faing plan to fall that tree and so if you're going out to a new site you need to go through all the steps of what are the you know what are the um what's the coordination look like on this site what who's doing what where's everybody going to be and you know building Harmony so that everybody understands what the protocols are what the plan is for the site and what the plans are for each of those components of of doing the work and U you know communication and planning I I think those go so much further than anything else and I'm I'm really appreciative that pretty much you don't go to any Workshop anywhere without them talking about a safety briefing at the beginning and even in the workshops they're they're practicing what they preach and so uh in morgon South or North Carolina about an hour south of us um there's a quarterly meeting there where uh guys is very Grassroots but they come together and uh there's a um you know a couple of folks that are really the uh proponents the ones that put it together and there's a a um sponsor that you know offers the the property and before every single activity if it's aerial rescue if it's safe chipper operation if it's talking about planting uh Basics you know you you're you're planting a tree for somebody every single Workshop every single module of those workshops they do a safety briefing and so if you're standing under a big 85 990 foot uh 40inch dbh White Oak that's still got some Deadwood in it they're like everybody's got to have a hard hat on and you got to be aware that if the wind picks up we're going to move out from under this thing because we're not certain of what you know what the status of that dead wood is up there I've never seen one of those limbs come out but it really again it begins with that planning process and being consistent and letting people know that they you know that they matter and that you're there to help the situation not to make it worse yeah I think I think it's it's so true it's a you know everybody talks about we want to all go home and want to go home with all our our fingers and toes and legs and you know it's um it's so important that we we stay in that that training mode no matter what what type of uh work we're doing especially especially with chainsaws I've got one little thing we'll kind of wrap it up for tonight I've got a u a thing here on um I got off of Instagram I can find it and um it I thought it was kind of kind of interesting but just to to kind of get people kind of think through some stuff in the in the planning process you know you you hear people talk about well you know we cut bigger trees or or or whatever this this was a um a thing here let me see if I can get it over I've got it [Music] on Google thing here it's a u pretty pretty large tree here and they've got a they got a jack on can you see it I can huh yeah I can yeah and so they got a neat little adapter thing they put on the jack CU if you don't have something on there to kind of even out sometimes those Reg Jacks will kind of jump jump out but um you know as you as you start to to look at this he got he's got some wedges in there for security and stuff he's jacking up on had a little problem with the handle but um if you look he he's jacked it almost an inch there so you know that that tells me this tree is is probably what 30 6 in maybe 40 42 in somewhere through there and um looks like a probably Douglas fur but it um if this tree were 120 ft tall how much back Ling you think that tree had on it if you jack it up and he's got a good hinge on there if you if you jack it up one in and uh it's a say a 3ot into um 150t tree let's say what would that be that'd be 50 segments wouldn't it so one in lift would move 50 in in the top roughly so that tree had had 4 foot of Back Lean so I guess that's the reason why they they probably started to think about the the hydraulic jack versus beaten wedges but then look at he he the lever bent and broke which it could have been already cracked or something I don't know but watch when it goes over what do you what do you think the resistance is that top moved a good bit may have not had four feet of back clean but when this goes over it's kind of a quick quick look there but yeah you think the hinge was thick can't really see it from from my vantage point that I believe yeah they probably were doing a lot of work they didn't need to do it could have been a thick hinge or it could have been if you think about 10% on a 36 in tree would be would be about 3 three and A2 Ines so it's probably probably pretty close I'm going to say they they proba had 4ot of back Lan on that tree or better didn't they how far in that's that Jack where is it making contact with the tree like how much did they lose on their see they got they got a a like a boomerang looking thing yeah that goes to the back of the tree so the pressure is all the way back to the back there so and he probably got a you know at least uh 8 to 12 in in on the face Notch looks like from where the the hinge is there so you know let's say you got two and a half or three foot of of lift area there to the hinge to the fulcrum Michael Kelly checked in let's see see if he get on here hey Michael Kelly but I thought that's that's kind of interesting when you start to you start to look at um at you know training and and thinking about you come back and read a lot of results and and start to look at this could it be done easier I don't know you know we don't know how much Back Lean it had how much side lean it had any of that kind of stuff but we we we've got we got you know the ability to um to you know take a look at at some of those things and and look at if we were going to be in that kind of Timber all day long you know how how much um you know we need to think about productivity and still maintain the safety so if if we try to uh leave too much hinge can be as as big a problem sometimes as too small a Hing and losing Direction yeah is the sun go down in in Alabama or you down in Guatemala or something I just stepped outside Tim it was nice and cool here for a chain so I said I'm G go out and listen to you in the good cool of the evening W I appreciate that I hadn't talked to you in quite a while you looking good there even in the dark hey man you know I try we got Keith over here was joined me with the Samaritan's Purse there so we've been talking about different I guess you've been listening in a little bit yeah only thing I could add to that is um man in storm season and you know our guys leave here and you know t on the utility trucks on the buckets and the line trucks going to put wire up and some of the stuff they see um you know good people out there trying to help their neighbors and boy it just breaks your heart uh sometime to see some of the stuff the positions they put theel in and man if it wasn't nothing but for the good Lord watching out over them um a lot of them wouldn't make it but you know God bless them for trying to help you know um but yeah our guys see it a lot and I think Tim of your training and raising awareness um you know helping me over the years to learn from you and bringing this up in meetings just really made our guys back up and not just jump into something and go to cutting you know um don't want to do that anymore I think they've learned that like you call it wood Under Pressure it starts moving buddy it's uh it's it's fast so um but yeah um we're in the thick of the Season here so you know it's kind of quiet this week but you know October it usually gets fired up and so that usually puts our guys on the road chasing hurricane lots of trees I guess y'all saw where when Houston got hit um man that was a ton of trees and that Metro Houston area that went down and some of those old Oaks hadn't been touched in you know decades you know they've had some pretty fairly good weather Houston and man it created a mess for them um Center Point Energy um they had their hands full with that storm it was a tough Chris Charles has just been out there and uh and John um also he's U they' Been Working in Texas for about a month with the other Crews so but uh yeah it's you know I guess I was going to ask you you how how important from your standpoint which you you've worked at most of the major organizing to begin with but you worked at a lot of the major power companies in Alabama and the southeast what um what's one of the the biggest keys to trying to get everybody to a working level you know to try to you know when you when you start to to think about and I'm I'm calling this training participants Focus how do you how do you get somebody focused on training to where they they like it where they feel like they get something out of it well that's just it um you know as you you've worked with our guys before here in the state Tim and um you know you and I discussed this early on we've got guys in the state that run chainsaws every day and then we've got guys that pick chain saws up and run them just for a brief period of time in their line of work if they're a you know lineman um they may they may not run a chainsaw often but our veg management guys you know they're on the end of a saw every day and um so it's um it's just in like in any craft or any trade um you know enough work experiences and I always say enough bad work experiences usually teaches us we need some we need some help you know we need to sit down with somebody who's done this many times before and listened to them um because it's you know again in our industry uh the guys that we hire today as opposed to the guys who came in and I'm even talking about myself when I came to work Co-op I didn't have any experience running chainsaw uh the proper experience let me say that um you know being on a farm you know picked up a saw did what you were told um but a lot of our guys um that we hired prior to my generation coming in you know they they had run chainsaw so there as you know Tim you trained a lot of them you could identify that you saw it in them um they when they put their hands on a saw they knew what they were doing and that just came from years of experience but we just don't have that anymore um people just don't have that and now we're running saws it seems like in some areas just out of necessity uh so I but I do believe you really have a lot of you and guys like you have really helped us turn the corner and raising that awareness to say you know that is a piece of equipment you do not want to just run out there and grab it and just go you know like cutting you know you you really have to know what you're doing and uh I I I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate what you've done over the many years here in our state to help raise that awareness and like we started out here with the program the goal was is to get the older guys proficient and train them with the information uh everything you taught rdt the skate routes everything that we've always uh you know hit on have a good plan um let let those guys go back and train their guys daily and develop good work habits based on the training that you provided and I I can look back now and see that that's what what happened uh that was was your goal coming in here and I I do believe you were successful and it really really did help our guys um you know to learn that hey like you said all these situations we find ourselves in we have to have a plan you know OSHA requires the guys who do electric line work you know on our standard uh we have to start every job with a job briefing uh so that helps us on the Utility side U we have a list of things that we're going to run down we're going you know we're checking boxes sometimes but we're stopping long enough to look at the situation and give everybody an idea a time to ask questions so same way with tree failing if you you don't walk up that tree and you don't have yourself a briefing if you're even if you're by yourself cutting You' got to have that internal conversation say either like you said to him there's two options of cutting a tree you can either cut her you can walk away that's your only two options you know and so I'm I'm thinking you know here we we've gotten that skill level to our guys to understand that sometimes you need to walk away and get somebody else in and put some more brain power on it well I appreciate it and I know everybody in Alabama does too they appreciate your commitment to to training and all types you guys have so much more than just chainsaws to mess with but it's it's something to where uh you know like you say you you you put the commitment in the the guys that uh are supervising or they're key workers then it spreads and you but you got to make the commitment to starting that stepbystep program to begin with so that they get that basics down that checklist you're talking about for the safety meeting you know that's those basic things is what really makes it Go and that's what makes it start to spread with your other employees and with other groups and so that's that's a key there Brian said hahaa 95° I may double a wedge maybe a double in a shim but if I can get the cutter or skitter to it game over 95 degrees makes an old guy sweat Brian was an instructor up in New England and then was through North Carolina forestry for years and years and he's he's retired down in Florida so he's down in hot weather now John chaen how are you doing I guess you got two three days going off I saw in your message John's a logger up in West Virginia he's got some steep terrain to mess with Michael I appreciate you dropping in and you're welcome anytime Thursday night saws were on every Thursday night at 8:00 so if you get a get a chance to drop by and and uh you'd enjoy I know you've been you've been going down to some different uh um work with some different missions and uh you had Keith could spend hours talking about stuff like that he just got back from South AF not South Africa but Africa so he's a he's out and about and like I say two or three of the guys are are working pretty hard in in uh one of them was in Georgia this week but he was in Texas for the past two weeks so these guys are putting some time on chainsaws and trying to help a few people out so hey Tim I'll shared this one with you a couple of weeks ago and I know my church member that wouldn't me telling saying this he got a call one night from his wife and she was on a text asking us to pray for her husband he had had an accident that afternoon and Veronica started to tell me about it and I heard two things come out of her mouth chainsaw and a ladder I'm thinking to myself oh brother what were you thinking you know and um anyhow so uh he he fell off the ladder it knocked him out and um Sun got was right there with him and got him some good care and got him to the hospital and everything's fine uh but I offered uh the next morning hey you know let me come over there that afternoon let's let's get whatever he was working on let's get that cleaned up and um you know I should have took a photo of it I didn't uh but the weirdest thing was is uh he didn't fall but maybe oh he froze up old um had old oak tree that had just fell over his son's privacy fence and they'd gotten the tree already cut it looked like uh completely back and started at the end working their way toward the fence and for some reason he jumped up on that uh ladder and when he cut that largest section that last big section it came off and hit and collapsed the ladder and flipped him off you know there's a thousand YouTube videos out there that show that same thing you know and um but man the good Lord just was watching after him and uh just just protected him because that that could have been ugly if he'd landed on the saw and yeah all that so um but yeah um it's that's stuff you see on YouTube man some of it's not made up everyday stuff there's some ways to ascend with a ladder but you better be tied in before you do much I was just thinking Brian Wagner probably tell you when we uh I was doing logger program Covington Virginia and we had a safety meeting and one of the vice president regional vice presidents with the paper company was there and or Lumber Company and uh he started telling his story where he did that he had put the ladder up on there he went out and he cut the tree limb and the limb went up about four inches and he rode the ladder all the way down broke his leg in about two places but it happens more than you think it does gentlemen I appreciate y'all very much and uh I want to wish you all good sawing and if you get a chance drop back by next Thursday night and I think we'll have two or three others next week everybody's out working this week but uh I appreciate y'all and we're about to run out of my time schedule here but we hope to uh hope to be doing this every Thursday night just passing out some information about chainsaws and operations and um if we can help you in any way let us know thank y'all there you go thank you take care