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[Music] welcome to the times of Israel's Daily Briefing today's Tuesday September 3rd Day 333 of the war with Hamas Amanda Borel Dan here with our diplomatic correspondent laser bman and culture editor Jessica Steinberg whom you all also know from hosting this podcast thank you both for joining me today good morning hi there prime minister Benjamin netan held a link the press conference last night in which he spelled out in detail his vision of the hostage deal that Israel needs to protect the nation laser will fill us in on neto's strategic thinking and update us on a speech delivered by President Isaac Herzog this morning we'll learn about what is happening now with the hostage negotiations even as the United Kingdom is suspending 30 of its 350 arms export licenses to Israel Jessica a long time friend of The Goldberg poam family we'll talk about HH one of the six hostages executed by Hamas late last week and the messages delivered at his funeral yesterday all this and more when we're [Music] back thousands of mourners lined the streets of Jerusalem yesterday to bid a final farewell to slain American Israeli host HH Goldberg Poland one of the best known faces among those seized by Hamas on October 7th due to his mother Rachel and Father John's intensive efforts to raise awareness across the globe so many felt hersh's murder as a punch in the gut Jessica you've known the family for a very long time what can you tell us first of all about this 23-year-old young man who captured the world's attention well H was was really just a regular guy in so many ways just like so many of the hostages he was funny he was friendly he was very curious as both his parents have told over the past uh 11 months and he really was I'm remembering him all the time as a kid um he was on the shorter side at the time which he did not like at all and he always wore glasses but he had these very different colored frames at all the time to sort of pump up the concept that he had to wear glasses mop of hair on his face and he was always busy he was always involved with his friends he came here as an eight-year-old on Aliah with his family his parents um had REM met here and married here and then went back to the States for a bunch of years and when HH came back he was eight and one of the stories that John his father told at the funeral was that they had named him Hirsch uh and they said to him you know maybe you're going to want to go by the name s when you move to Israel which is you the essentially Hebrew translation of hirsh and he was like no they'll just have to deal with it and that really was who he was he very much in his teenage years and into his 20s became an integral part of the hapoel Jerusalem basketball team it's a relatively small team it's the Jerusalem basketball team the city's basketball team it's a very has a very tight-knit fan club and their members wage huge Flags during the games they're called the brigada the Brigade they chant a lot of songs that they make up themselves and these were hs's people um and that fan club the brigada but was part of the struggle to bring hsh home for all these months they were present at all the rallies and the protests and very much at the funeral yesterday the image that keeps on replaying in my mind is their massive red and black flags huge waving in the sky against the Blue Sky um and it was their voices the voices of the Bri that you heard raised very Softly As the funeral was about to begin they wrote a chant for the funeral Hao my life has no meaning without hsh by my side the funeral was live streamed and Rachel's speech is being quoted across the globe can you give us just a few of the messages that you heard there from Rachel from John from as you said the hael fans Absolutely I'll start actually with the the first speaker uh just to mention president Isaac Herzog who very clearly offered messages of his message was asking forgiveness from hirsh and from the other five hostages who were murdered alongside him he spoke about the government failing HS and the others on October 7th for not saving him about the state's responsibility to return every hostage along with a vow to avenge his murder and to continue fighting John and Rachel also asked for her's forgiveness and it was John who spoke after Herzog who said that if it were hirs in his place in his parents' place he would be pushing and proving that his death and the deaths of the other hostages of the soldiers who have been killed of those killed on October 7th were not in vain and that H would be constantly thinking about ways to end the cycles of violence and that he John and of course Rachel will continue working toward that Legacy and one of the very memorable messages from John which is also being quoted across all social media platforms was John used the term may his memory be a blessing but turned it around and said May her's memory be a revolution as for Rachel my very strong eloquent friend and as she calls herself hersh's Mama her words resonated for all of us for everyone um she spoke everyone's mind including of course her own she spoke about hirh as the perfect son for her um about being hh's Mama about her sweet boy now up in heaven with his best friend anir shapira who was killed on October 7th as he fought off the Kamas terrorists she prayed that hersh's death would prove to be a turning point in this unbearable situation I'm paraphrasing for her and took comfort that hersh's last days were with the other five hostages who were killed alongside him orano Ed edin Yami Carmel Gat Alex lubenov and alog rosi she named them by name she spoke about how hard they all fought to survive and that they will forever be remembered together as she offered her own sympathies to the other mour families she and John of course as we've all heard over these months are people of faith and belief and her Rachel thank God for giving her Hersh as a son she asked HS then to help them from heaven with to offer them resilience that they will be able to rise again these were her words to become their superpower she and John and their daughters his sisters liby and orle and if I can I'd just like to quote her final words from her eulogy okay sweet boy go now on your journey I hope it's as good as the trips you dreamed about because finally my sweet sweet boy finally finally finally finally you are free I will love you and I will miss you every single day for the rest of my life but you are right here I know you are right here I just have to teach myself to feel feel you in a new way and HS I need you to do one last thing for us now I need you to help us stay strong and then need you to help us to survive Rachel's words were followed her eulogy was followed by his sisters Li and Orly by two of his ha his ha Jerusalem Brigade friends who spoke with broken voices about everything they tried to do and how things will not be the same and by a very dear friend of his from his childhood who also spoke beautifully and memorably about trips and camping trips and waking up in a tent with h by his side and stretching their arms out and HS turning to him and saying bartov good morning and now what's next and he said he will carry on hersh's life for him with him and that's what everyone spoke about intending to do Jessica thank you so much for bringing us all of this thanks for letting me do this we'll go to a short break and say [Music] goodbye and we're back laser we're going to go on with the news of the day after that very tough moment after many many months in which Israelis have called upon prime minister Benjamin Nao to spell out his vision of a hostage release deal he finally held a rare press conference in Jerusalem last night after a day of massive strikes and protests and mourning throughout the country in the press conference he defended himself against charges of blocking the deal and argued forcefully for what he said was the Strategic imperative to keep Israeli troops stationed along the Philadelphia Corridor which along gaza's border with Egypt this seemed to be the really leading Salient point that nety was trying to make but what were other issues that netan finally drilled down upon sure so I think Jessica reminded us very powerfully what is at stake here and this is not purely a theoretical discussion you know in the in the halls of power but this has real consequences for people's lives and deaths and that's what makes this press conference so so uh important and and we watch it and we try to understand where things stand where Netanyahu uh is is what he's thinking right now and in what direction he wants to take uh the war and and the talks his Focus as you said was to explain to the public why he believes that Israel must maintain control of the Philadelphia Corridor now the much of the criticism of late has been presenting this idea that it's either the hostages or Philadelphia Corridor and protesters and voices within the security establishment have said we can leave the Philadelphia Corridor there are ways to keep an eye on the Gaza Egypt border area there are ways to prevent Hamas from rearming and if we need to we can go back and retake it and Netanyahu was arguing uh against this idea he as he has done in past speeches especially at the UN he came out with a presentation a map um of the of the of Gaza Strip of the Border area and made the argument that uh well there's a few core arguments one that the three War goals having to do with Gaza he added a fourth one which is getting the residents back to the northern border which is a new goal official goal of the war but to topple Kamas militarily and civil to return all the hostages and to make sure that Gaza will never again present a threat to Israel all of that he says goes through one place the Philadelphia Corridor he called it hamas's pipeline it's both for it's it's oxygen in terms of its ability to live as an organization and to rearm um and he said that the Access of Evil led by Iran needs the Philadelphia access it's the same word in Hebrew it's um and that is the exact reason Israel must control it he says that if Israel was going to withdraw in the first first phase of a deal so over 42 days Israel cannot return he said that the international pressure would be so great on Israel that it just wouldn't be able to happen the International Community would do everything it could to make sure that this war ends and therefore uh we cannot leave it he went back into history and he said that in the past when Israel has withdrawn from the Gaza Strip in 2005 or from Lebanon in 2000 and then in 2006 after the second Lebanon war leaders said don't worry we'll be able to go back if you know if if one hair on the head of an Israeli soldier gets hurt and we were not able to go back we didn't go back so he says if we leave it could be 42 years um until we go back Netanyahu also made the claim that uh he was the one who raised the alarm back in 2003 2004 ahead of the disengagement to Ariel Chiron that he said that Netanyahu said no matter what happens in this disengagement we cannot leave the Philadelphia Corridor it's a little bit revisionist history um that that opposition leader y Leed called him out on but he was saying that back then he realized the danger of it he said that over the past two decades um you know he he led campaigns against hamas's rearmament um but he never did take it he said because basically there was an international legitimacy to return to the corridor so that was the main focus of his talk about the Philadelphia Corridor and explaining why he continues and he said he will continue to insist that he will remain there he also blasted quote unquote voices in the C in the cabinet who uh even after there was this vote last week from the cabinet from the security cabinet saying that Israel will remain on the corridor um in the in any event of a deal that continued to say that they should leave even after those six hostages were murdered and of course here he's talking about defense minister yov Galant even though he's a ludik he has a very complicated Rel relationship with the Prime Minister this is someone who Netanyahu fired uh in 2023 and has become a leading voice uh kind of of internal opposition saying we should focus on the north we should take a deal that that involves Israel leaving the corridor it's just not worth it right now um and he said he was n said he was shocked to hear that even after there was a decision a a decision that is mandatory that you know that uh ministers have to follow he said that he's still hearing these voices and N said especially after SAS murders in Cold Blood six hostages that's when we're going to make more concessions that would even make it harder to get a deal cuz Kamas will have even less incentive to uh be flexible um so th those were his main arguments uh in that regard I guess the main question though laser is if I'm not mistaken this idea of maintaining the Philadelphia Corridor is a later addition to the Israeli proposal meaning one of the four or five tenants that netan is not going to bend on that were added after the May proposal correct they were explicitly added after the May 27th Israeli proposal that President Biden presented publicly on May 31st however these proposals are intentionally vague in order to get both sides to agree to something that they really don't see I eye to eye on both sides being Israel and Hamas and Netanyahu was saying the terms of that proposal it doesn't say Israel can't restart the war and it talks about UMAS not rearming and such that that means that Israel must maintain control over the corridor but it was explicitly added later uh that is true um and uh Hamas agreed to that to a proposal on in July um but they have never agreed to Israeli maintaining Israel maintaining control um what the attempts now are focused on is some sort of phased withdrawal Egypt also there was a senior Israeli official I believe two days ago who was briefing local reporters in Egypt that Egypt also will not accept an Israeli presence n said in this press conference that he's willing to uh reduce to dilute the number of forces On the Border because you don't need a full Division and a half there you only need um Israeli soldiers in certain positions so that they can Patrol the whole thing present prevent rearming and he also talked about the danger of host hostages being spirited out of the Gaza Strip into the Sinai and from there onto Iran he says if Israel's not there then that could happen and of course that would make it even harder to get them out um so that was Nan's argument there okay so right now it sounds as though we're all waiting for another American proposal some kind of bridging Proposal Part Two basically trying to bring the two sides even closer together and yesterday when Biden was asked by reporters at the White House whether he thought netan was doing enough on this hostage release negotiations issue the president responded no so it's really difficult to see how the two sides can get closer together if one negotiating mediator is basically putting the blame on one side at this point so I would not characterize it as putting the blame entirely on Israel first of all it's Biden we know how Biden speaks off the cuff and he might not be rep he might he might actually be representing what America really thinks or he might be the opposite he might just kind of be speaking uh with less care than a president should but it's notable that after he said that the White House came out with kind of a clarification and said that you know Kamas Bears the responsibility and and blasted them for um for a number of things including murdering the hostages so and and that also reflects what America has has been saying leading up to the murder of the hostages that that that Israel has accepted the brid bridan proposal and now it's hamas's turn so I don't think that America thinks it's entirely Israel's fault but they certainly you know the fact that Biden said it I think reflects something within the administration but that's not the real problem it's the problem is not what America thinks it's the fact that as as we have talked about for months Israel and Hamas are fundamental disagreements over what they would be willing to accept Israel wants to win the war part of the war is getting the hostages out but also toppling Kamas Hamas is still functional they would still reconstitute if Israel left now and they're saying there's no way we are going to agree to end the war if uh we do not have an arrangement or some way to make sure that Hamas is destroyed we can do it militarily which is taken a long time or we can have some sort of other Arrangement but that is not something obviously Kamas will will agree to they continue to insist on at some stage of permanent ceasefire and the full withdrawal of IDF troops including from Philadelphia including from the narim corridor that is the main problem what the White House is trying to do now is to come up with one they call it their final proposal take it or leave it it's not clear what will happen after cuz if Hamas rejects this what do the US going to do they're not speaking with a lot of about about a lot of sticks here even though they say that Hamas must pay the price its leaders must pay the price I don't know what it means they're going to say that the gloves are off um for Israel Israel well Israel's basically doing what it needs to in the Gaza Strip I don't I don't know if if America saying the gloves are off is going to change much and also ahead of an election it might not uh be something that the White House is e eager to do so it's not clear where we go from here given I think the high probability that this Tak late proposal is going to have the same result given that the two sides are at fundamental odds in terms of what their fundamental interests are so while the US is the main arm supplier for Israel Britain yesterday said it would immediately suspend dozens of arms export licenses with Israel because there is a risk the equipment might be used to commit serious violations of international humanitarian law and today Britain's defense minister John Healey says the country's suspension of 30 of its 350 arms export licenses to Israel will not threaten Israel's ability to defend itself so how are we squaring this circle well so first of all Paul this is not something that uh affects key components these are components that Israel can get elsewhere I think the main importance of this is the symbolic that the UK is one of Israel's closest allies there is a longstanding military cooperation uh really in a number of of facets it's when David Cameron was prime minister I don't know a decade and a half ago uh a little less he was he basically opened up uh uh the ability of the British Armed Forces to cooperate more closely with Israel and I was part of some of those processes so the fact that one of Israel's closest uh diplomatic and Military Allies is doing this obviously feeds into this idea in the west that Israel is violating International humanitarian law in the Gaza Strip it is important to note that the UK says explicitly that it has not determined that Israel is violating any laws this is not meant to be seen as a judgment but they that there is a ser ious risk that Israel could be they also brought in other things that are not directly related to Israel's conduct of the war in terms of the use of of uh those military components uh they talked about um you know humanitarian Aid coming in they talked about the treatment of daines at State man those are a little bit SE those are separate issues that don't have to do with components for drones and helicopters and and f16s but they all play into that same idea that Israel is somehow violating uh the law Um this can be turned around this is something that if this review process that which has been going on since July since the labor came into Power uh we to find that Israel has changed its policies in some ways this can be restored but again these are not key components um the main issue here is it feeds into this growing uh idea that Israel is uh violating the law and they do not point out exactly where they think Israel is violating the law these are these are generalities um and I think that is part and they they also point out by the way that there are cred credible claims that Hamas is hiding behind civilian population so that's a pretty important idea that really does in my mind as someone who's quite experienced in you know in in understanding Warfare and Military campaigns that explains the uh the high civilian toll and the British statements point at that high civilian toll so you know this is something that we must recognize is something that is as political as it is legal um it was there was pressure on this new labor government to do what the previous Tory government did not do and suspend at least some arms sales to Israel and that's what they did so as we mentioned earlier yesterday was a very Whirlwind of a day including a massive general labor strike and during the day a court ordered the strikers back to work cutting short the labor action that was aimed at pressuring the government to seal a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza the strike was politically motivated according to the court and unrelated to workers rights and thus illegal and all the workers were sent back to work at about 2:30 in the afternoon today we're not seeing the level of protest that roiled the country for yesterday the day before certainly but this morning when speaking to the Israel Bar Association president Isaac Herzog issued what you laser labeled a strident call for Unity insisting that quote the soul and future of the nation are at stake so what made his call so strident one was the the really the language that he used he said that you know is this really what the country needs is this what the families need is this what uh you know people who are wounded or people have families who families who have lost loved ones in the Gaza Strip or on October 7th what we need now is for the country to come together um and solve its problems and to compromise now he he was talking to the bar association the context there seemed to be attempts uh we heard earlier in August by Justice Minister re line to restart that process that tore apart Israeli Society a year ago um so he seemed to be saying in terms of that don't you dare let's all leave our bunker down uh positions and let's find compromise that's a position that he took also last year the sense I got he was expressing some worry about the tenor and the tone of the protest in the streets um from both sides you know criticism of the protesters and what the protesters are saying and that it's not helping the country what we need now is to focus on the external threats on helping to uh heal in terms of Israelis who have you know are suffering in this time um and none of this is really helping it he didn't want to be too specific about you know any who he was criticizing because he's the president and that's not really his his job but um I think that that was the context there laser thank you so much for all of your updates and insights today thank you thanks for listening to the times of Israel's daily briefing please check out another installment tomorrow this episode was produced by the Pod waves if you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode please drop us an email to podcast at timesofisrael.com until tomorrow shalom [Music]