Penn State preseason camp recap; exploring the Nittany Lions' depth chart

[Music] welcome back into the lions 247 podcast I am Tyler Donahue in just a moment you'll hear from my colleagues Mark Brennan and Daniel Gallen all three of us were out in the Penn State practice field in team facilities on Tuesday and that's when Penn State wrapped up its preseason camp schedule three weeks of arduous work out there on the field trying to figure out where guys are going to find roles we'll talk about that a little bit later here in the episode we'll work our way through exploring the projected Penn State depth chart if you follow Penn State football you know the last few years uh the team hasn't put out any kind of public depth chart but we put our minds together at Lin 247.com and published one here on a Thursday morning we're recording early afternoon Thursday and without further Ado bringing in Mark Brennan and Daniel gallon guys we made it through another preseason camp we got a few looks at the nitty lines we'll get a much longer one on August 31st when they head down to Morgantown for a matchup against West Virginia we will see another practice between now and then but not only did we see practice on Tuesday and about 20 minutes of it we also heard from James Franklin all three coordinators a few veteran players and so Mark we're going to do our best over the course of what I expect to be a pretty long episode here of the lons 247 podcast to lay out empty the notebook a little bit from what we learned what we may not have learned quite yet during the course of preseason camp if you're saying it's going to be a long episode I'm officially nervous we're supposed to do something at like three o'clock so I hope just cancel that this is gonna be three no I'm just kidding hey the thing I actually asked James Franklin and sometimes I think we get caught up in uh kind of the daytoday of of camp and we forget to ask like the big picture like where do you think you guys are and I think he gave a very good answer in the sense that he'd like where they are he doesn't think they have any glaring areas uh that they haven't addressed U he started off early in preseason camp talking about the competitive balance between the offense and defense and to him that's something that's carried through so you know listen I I think they had a productive preseason camp um were able to name their leaders finally and I think we we probably had a good idea of who some of them were going to be I think maybe some surprises who who weren't on that list but I I like where they're I mean I'm just ready to get this season rolling because at this point you know I look at this team and I think it's set up for success but I love the fact that they're opening against a challenging opponent on the road because we are going to learn so much we are going to learn so much against West Virginia that I can't wait for that game to get here yeah we're just nine days out from that matchup now and Daniel it's a Penn State team coming off a pair of 10- win seasons one of which they capped off with with the New Year's six Bowl victory and then they lost in that setting last year but now with the expanded playoff and this class of 2022 that's been circled for a while now for the NY Lions they're the upper classman Deni Dennis Su in the defensive end one of the lead members of that group a former five star said this week when we were talking with them after practice that they have now taken command of this team as upper classman and they're demanding it of themselves to make this a college football playoff push now we've heard that from other classes you know I remember PJ muster representing that 2018 class talking about how important it was for them to to you know go out in a final ride get to the to the Big 10 championship game we haven't seen the other classes be able to reach that uh what do you make of this group The 2022 class kind of as the spearhead of it now that we're at a preseason camp are you putting two feet on the bandwagon are you taking a foot off the bandwagon what do you think about Penn State breaking through that seal getting the cfp right now not asking for a prediction but just kind of a Vibe check yeah I mean I think this class of 2022 is a good example of how transient college football can be and how quickly this stuff goes by I mean it's still kind of you still want a default to guys like Drew Aller Nick Singleton and Abdul Carter to be like oh yeah the young Talent on this team when if everything goes right for a bunch of these guys they won't be around next year they'll be on NFL rosters so this stuff comes and goes pretty quickly but I mean I think it's a good group to get behind I think that you look at where members of this class are and the positions that they play and the roles that that they'll occupy you got the quarterback you got the running back got two defensive ends you got a safety in KJ Winston who's a team captain I think that this is the group that really sets the tone and everything will go from from there pretty much if these players can really reach that potential that the recruiting rankings had them M and that we saw teased over these past two years I think you're looking at a team with with a really high ceiling so I still feel good about this team um and especially this group I know that we'll get into predictions a little bit more next week with where we have things but I I think that I feel comfortable with them I think that these are guys that have seen a lot um we've seen a lot from them we've talked to them a lot and learned a lot from them and I think that they have Penn State in in good shape where we stand right now what nine days out Tyler one thing that if I could mention in a different era these guys would all be red shirt sophomores I mean think about that I mean but all of all the guys that Daniel mentioned came in and played immediately and not only did they play they were impact players but I go back I always referen that 1991 class which was the great class with kajana Carter and Jeff Hardings and Bobby Ingram the vast majority of those guys actually red shirted and you know by this point of their career they were only red shirt sophomores so that speaks to Daniel's point about the transan kind of Nature and I I think it's not only important that these guys are third-year players but they have played so much football and they have been in leadership roles Drew Aller wasn't named the captain until this year but you know I mean just naturally he was a leader of the team last year Abdul Carter I mean not the most vocal guy but when they were in a tough guy in a tough game you knew that that guy was one of the leaders and the same thing with with uh with KRON and Singleton I mean both of those guys so I think that's the thing that people are looking at and is really resonating and why people are thinking hey you know number eight team project them to be in the playoff yeah and you want to talk about why we make the cases for this as a special group aside from the fact that they they brought in three five stars composite five stars that class that was the first for the program with Nick Singleton Drew Aller and and Deni Dennis Sutton but you think about the impact they made right away you know there was the starters that showed up and and some of them did it early like the running backs some of them did it later like Drew Shelton when he had a step up but you think about they were sandwiched between these two classes 2021 which was a really interesting recruiting class generally because it was coming out of Co was very much feeling the ramifications of the pandemic um and and he only had two guys burn their red shirt that that year you know Ken King was the headliner um but only two guys and then the next year 10 burn red shirt in 2022 you've got four of them playing 300 plus snaps in Abdul Carter Drew Shelton and then nick nick uh Nick Singleton and KRON Allen then you follow that last year it's a fiveman uh five man burn burn red Shir class they're all on defense and no one plays 150 snaps in that freshman class last year and we know rosters are structured differently maybe there's different opportunities for the depth chart but just compare those three classes that have you know helped build this roster and look at the influence that the 20202 class has made it's very notable and two of those guys represented on this list of captains which came out over the weekend we'll address that now quarterback Drew Aller and safety KJ Winston were named captains as Juniors and then you've got more veteran guys that Nick Dawkins a fifth year senior Dom Duca a red shirt Jr Kobe King another red shirt Jr and then punter Riley Thompson who's been in the college game now for three years and so when you kind of review that group of captains Mark you've seen a lot of different versions of Penn State captains rolled out over the decades what's your initial reaction to this one it's so much different now because they used to have one or two captains and now that they kind of spread to wealth um I don't know that there's one person in there that you think of as like the PJ muster you know Rah raw or you know people probably laugh at me but Sean Clifford I think was a really good leader for this team in terms of being vocal and that sort of thing U but I I think generally speaking it's not necessarily a bad thing because you I think you can have kind of across theboard leadership and I think that's what they're kind of shooting for two guys I wanted to mention number one Drew Aller clearly James Franklin I was getting the sense that he wasn't really happy with the way some people have maybe portrayed Drew in the way that he said that you know everybody voted for him it was the the team the the staff well that that's the same thing with everybody right isn't it I mean that's how all the captains were picked and for James to go out and and out of his way and say that I thought was pretty interesting the other guy touch on the phrase the phrase he punctuated that comment was total respect from within the program is total respect was what he tried to emphasize there yeah and I just loaded a video with that last night and you can see it actually on our site on the front page where he I think I was reading that to mean that he was thinking that maybe some people didn't have total respect outside of the program for him so I don't know uh what was going on there but the other guy Kobe King I think we knew since last year you know after that bll game the way he came in and kind of took ownership and uh you just had a feel that he was going to be kind of that guy and you look at that Mike linebacker position and I just look at that guy you know he's always had those leadership qualities extremely well spoken intelligent really good football player and he's at that natural position so both of those guys you have I think you have strong leadership at the two natural positions on offense and defense and to me that's the most important thing that's no disrespect to all the other guys who are named captain but I think it's when your quarterback as a captain I I think that's an important thing uh for the offense same thing with your Mike linebacker and they they didn't just name them I think those guys are natural leaders for people who have been around Drew you know since he's been a freshman well even before that I mean you guys talked to him when he was a recruit and just the way he's carried himself he just carries himself like a leader of young guys so I think having those two positions is really key I think what we may have wondered with with Drew is could he be confrontational as a leader and I think that's a necessary component is to get in guys Faces Sometimes over the course of a year when you kind of have to redirect players or kind of get everybody in line for one reason or another and it sounds like Drew has been a lot a lot uh I guess evolved in that regard and we'll see what it looks like on the field I think that's what we're all curious about it's great to hear that the anecdotes from the practic is but um I want to go back really quick to December 2020 Terry Smith who who's not just the quarterback's coach here for aenn state but he's also the defensive recruiting coordinator uh back then speaking about Kobe King he said quote Kobe is the type of kid that will come here and be a future Captain for us right sometimes you just know very early when a guy is like that another that was siging day right that was Signing Day yeah that was when him and his brother signed out of CTE in Detroit and then another guy I want to I want to get to here is he's had been on the podcast during high school he talked about how important it was for him to be a leader and a facilitator for that class of of 2020 uh which again that group faced a lot of of of hardships early because of the covid situation and making their transition to college but that's Nick Dawkins I mean this guy has been a tremendous vocal piece for that class for a long time over the years because of depth uh depth competition and because of an injury that cost him much of the 2022 campaign he hasn't been able to take that next step forward in terms of a presence on the field that happened a bit last year he was the primary backup at Center got almost 200 snaps and it's happened in a huge way this year I mean whether it's on the record off the record everything we've heard about Nick Dawkins is just that he was built to lead men he was built to lead a group um I think a great term that we heard from Kaden Wallace when he was on this podcast last year when his career came to an end he called Nick Dawkins the ultimate gatherer of men and so Nick can go in a lot of different paths when he finish his football but I think he'll always be in a leadership type of position and so to to not just hear that it came together for him as a captain but also as a guy who's solidly in place as a starting center and we'll talk about what we think the offensive line is going to look like in the depth chart conversation later but I wanted to to really give mention to Nick Dawkins because he was being considered as a team captain as a non-starter last year and I've really never heard that and so here he is as a starter as a captain and to me when it comes push to shove and they go in a halftime and and it's a game where they don't feel good about the way they're playing they may be losing on the scoreboard at that point I don't know if it's necessarily gonna be Drew Aller who steps up and and says what needs to be said in that locker room I think that it could very well be Nick Dawkins and I think that's okay I don't think it has to be your quarterback I think he's part of that conversation but when everybody in the room all 105 guys regardless of position or defense offense orientation are looking for a voice and a commanding presence I have a feeling that that that guy could be Nick Dawkins this year if you're looking for kind of the Pinnacle of this Captain group but I don't want to Short change the others Daniel do you have anything to add we have to acknowledge Don duca's story is just fantastic going from a a walk-on who came to campus after a serious knee injury in a state championship game a lot of us figured he'd be an afterthought or maybe a special teams piece looking like he's going to be a starting linebacker and he's a two-time team captain as a red shirt Jr so I wanted to make sure we also Hammer that home how impressive his journey has been yeah Duca really stands out to me and he'll have that number zero jersey again as that top special teams player following in the Jonathan Sutherland footsteps there but I think Riley Thompson stands out to as a team captain someone who came in last year and I assume didn't really know how long he was going to be here based on the twists and turns of his eligibility Saga there we we know he'll be here this year and next year um so for him to come in and have that role uh and make an impact in in with the Specialists I think that stands out to me a little bit and then KJ Winston I think back to what we were hearing from KJ Winston on Zoom last year during the week um when we talked to him during game weeks and you there's one availability where he talked about how he made it a point to know every single person's name in the program that he wanted to be able to interact with everyone in the program no matter what side of the ball they were on um or what their role in the program was and to hear that from a sophomore obviously we didn't get a chance to talk to him as a freshman and kind of get the day byday uh how his adjustment was going um to Penn State but to hear that from a sophomore especially when he was in a room with guys who had played like Keaton Ellis like Jaylen Reed some older players for him to have that approach and be vocal about that I think it really stood out to me and then I've talked about it where the role that Penn State put him in down at the peach bow and how he handled himself before the game and then after the game at the podium I think that really stood out to me so I've really enjoyed talking to him I think that he's someone who really gives you a lot of honesty and and insight and is just a very pleasant person to interact with and you can see how he's someone where players can gravitate towards him and he can really do a good job of leading them like Mark said I think that you look at quarterback middle linebacker those are probably the easiest positions to lead from I think it's it's kind of like the closer you get to the ball the easier it is but I still think we we've seen Penn State have captains at safety in the past um Keaton Ellis was it last year jquan brisker Jer Brown uh and now KJ Winston is in that lineage behind them I'm glad you keep referencing what we saw down in Atlanta because it wasn't adverse kind of situation in postgame uh there was some distrust I would probably say maybe between the media and the program or the players in the locker room because of the opt out situations because of the way the game went it kind of got away from them and so it wasn't the easiest situation to navigate for anybody and James Franklin kind of gathered a couple I think it was Tyler Warren and KJ Winston right at the main Podium and you knew from that point yeah KJ Winston's gonna be in a good spot to be a leader and I'll just pass along something that defensive coordinator Tom Allen told us this week he said he noticed from afar uh last year while while they were on the field playing Penn State in Indiana he said before the game just watching KJ Winston go about his preparation is actually something that's stuck out to him and now that he's gotten to know him he said quote it's constant he's so hard at himself he's such a perfectionist in everything sometimes to a fault sometimes you have to help him not dwell on a mistake and flush it and at the same time he elevates everybody around him to me that's what great leaders do that's what great players do um so yeah there's your group of of captains well we've been wondering what you know what that six might look like I think there's plenty of other names Devon ell Devon J Thomas Tyler Warren it's it's a longer list than that but there's there is it feels like a really Jaylen Reed it feels like there's a strong kind of a communal leadership in place here where again there's been years where it felt like it had to be one or two guys setting the tone maybe a bit a bit different now but uh it seems like the leadership is in place of course you never know until you start to hit that adversity in season and how things how guys stick together um Daniel I want to get to the touchdown and takeaways King because that's what we get at the end of preseason camp fortunately pen State puts that into the public sector and tells us what's going on in terms of who plucked the most interceptions or fumbles and then who reached the endzone most talk us through those results you had the story up on Wednesday night at Li 247.com one of the touchdown Kings no surprise quarterback Drew Aller I think that that is something that you expect to hear from your your in quarterback going through Camp uh the other one on the offensive side of the ball for Touchdown King was Luke Reynolds The Freshman that we've heard a lot about over these past couple of weeks and seems to be putting himself in a position to contribute as a freshman James Franklin said he's gonna play he doesn't know uh if it's going to be four games or four games plus postseason which could still be a lot of experience depending on how that goes for the Freshman but I I think it's clear this is kind of the the evidence that luk RS came in changed his body he's put on about 25 to 30 pounds according to his teammates that's muscle and it seems like that he's able to play with that and that it hasn't sapped him of any of his athleticism or anything like that then on top of that we've heard that he's not afraid to get physical which is something where you're making that transition from high school wide receiver or High School quarterback in his case to tight end that's pretty different when it comes to playing the position so to hear hear that Luke Reynolds has taken that approach and to see evidence of that as a touchdown King I think that stands out and something to track as we go into the season with such a deep room on the other side of the ball Zaki Wheatley has his crown back as the takeaway King I didn't get a chance to go all the way back to see how many times he's he's won it but this is at least his third time I I forget how many or if he won it last year and then he I want to say he had it spring 2023 and PR season Camp 2022 that's what I think it was I think he also had it spring 2022 okay yeah but um either way he's someone that we've heard a ton about his ball skills and even beyond that just kind of his knack for being around the play he shared that with Cam Miller the cornerback and then safeties Colin dinkin and dwan Lane uh Miller is someone that we're expecting to see a ton of this year um as starting potential outside starting cornerback and then potentially in the slot or at that lion spot in extra defensive back sets or in clear passing situations Thinkin is someone that is in the mix to be behind Jaylen Reed at that lion spot it seems like he's really made an impression the former runon with the coaching staff and I think he made an impression on us with how he played in the blue white game on team blue going up against Penn State's ostensible starters and then laye is someone else who you know when you get these summer enroles it's it's wait and see when are they going to show up when do you think that they'll start to pop it's different for everyone we've seen Penn State summer enroles make big impacts in the past and Lane it seems like has done a good job of that uh I got good feedback from him on from Justin lustig as someone who's really embraced special teams and it seems like that's carried over to the defensive side of the ball on the practice field too I check back uh to last August results for these Awards uh just curious uh Drew Aller and Keandre Lambert Smith were the touchdown Kings on offense and then the takeaway Kings on defense were dayquon Hardy and at the time freshman Tony roas and we'll have more on roas a little bit later we'll talk about that linebacker room uh but I wanted to get into the receiver spot because this is an area where on back-to-back trips to Penn State facilities now James Franklin has really gone out of his way fellas to talk about how both Liam Clifford and Harrison Wallace have you know separated themselves essentially from the pack and and not to say that other guys aren't going to play Bunch but the consistency has been something that he harped on last Tuesday he brought it up again this Tuesday we talked to Harrison Wallace a bit this time around though James Franklin did bring in a couple other names that he that he had to tip the cap toward which is always good for us as reporters he mentioned Julian Fleming and Omari Evans of course Fleming making the move as an Ohio State transfer after starting 20 games with the Buckeyes and then Omari Evans very promising start to his career as a freshman burn redshire last year was one of the Odyssey of that offensive season for 2023 and how Omari Evans was used or wasn't used and he's kind of at a reset now as a red shirt sophomore so Mark what do you make of of what we've heard about the receiver spot I want to note that we've also heard quite a bit of of good things about Kaden Saunders over the course of camp but believe he's been unavailable for for the last little while we'll be monitoring his availability on Tuesday when we get on the practice field but it feels like they've got four five and then you tack on maybe tyer Denmark On The Fringe there of guys that they feel like they're going to roll with as things get started yeah but you know I look at this and I look at Harrison Wallace as really their only proven commodity I mean he's the one guy that I wouldn't consider consider to be a breakout type of player if if you sorry and you'd save this for next week when we discuss our picks for such breakouts but in all in all seriousness no in all seriousness even though we didn't see even though um Trey Wallace was bumped up for a lot of last season I think we've heard enough from people who we respect about what level of receiver this kid is when he's healthy so I do think from that all joking aside I think he's the only guy in this whole room that you could really look at as any sort of proven commodity I think Fleming would be right there but again I mean he's been he's had that injury bug that he's not been able to get away from so hopefully he's healthy but the rest of them you know I you know I I don't want to foreshadow where we're going to go when we're talking about question marks on this team but this is going to be another instance where some kids are going to have to step up and prove themselves you know Liam Clifford was a guy who was basically listed as a starter for nearly every game last year only started one game he's played a lot of football uh obviously James has talked about him the coaching staff has talked about him a lot this preseason so he's obviously played well but we haven't seen it consistently in games and Amari Evans again you know we've seen flashes from Omari we've seen big plays from him he was probably one of the guys who benefited the most from the late season offensive coordinator change last year when they finally decided to start getting the ball in the hands of some of all right am I back you're back sorry it just said that I was muted which is probably just as well but again going back to it Trey Wallace really is the only proven commodity and whatever these guys did in Camp now it's time to to see it everywhere else I think they have guys who have done it in actual games consistently this is the one spot on offense where uh we're really going to have to pay attention you know not that we're not paying attention to everything but in that West Virginia game I'm really anxious to see who besides Trey Wallace really steps up Daniel I don't know how you would kind of gauge what we've heard about the receiver room but it feels like for a while now even going back to some of the workouts earlier this year that Liam Clifford was emerging there and that we knew if Harrison Wallace was going to be available this year he was going to be viewed as wide receiver one and to this point he's been very available he's been showcasing his skills on the practice field but with Julian Fleming there was I think people were cautious to talk too much about him I also think he was getting up to speed in a new surrounding I think that applied to this preseason camp have heard a lot more encouraging feedback on Fleming during the second half of preseason camp the second half of August here than we maybe did during the early days or even during spring ball I think that's good again he's getting through preseason camp and I hate to say this I'll knock on wood for Julian the healthiest he's been on a college campus at this point in a calendar year that's a significant deal for him and for Penn State Omari Evans might be the one the more I thought about this this morning the wide receiver discussion he might be the guy who can be an xfactor because we know he has gamebreaking speed he's had moments but it just haven't been strung together when you think about Andy codal Nicki and just trying to take advantage of space on the field and a guy who can exploit that I know we've mentioned Kaden Saunders for that kind of role but Omari Evans for where he seems to be in this depth chart standing right now he's going to have every opportunity to go assert himself as a force for this offense not a number one guy but someone that defenses are really going to have to be backpedaling when they deal with him to to go through the these three guys that that you just mentioned I think starting with with Liam Clifford he's been the recipient of the treatment that we've seen James Franklin give a lot of players where if one person if one if a player at one position gets asked about Franklin will attach a second player to that we've seen it a lot with Drew Aller and Bo foro when talking about the quarterbacks um along you know the running backs it's always Nick and KRON uh and Clifford has been getting that treatment with Trey Wallace this spring and you kind of wonder why and we haven't seen enough to really know how deserving that is in terms of on field but to hear it from Franklin I think means that it's to some degree warranted and Wallace gave him a pretty good endorsement to you Tyler uh earlier this week when he said that Liam has snapped this spring or this fall that means that he's he's broken out playing well um showing up and I think that that's translating Force I like it I'm I'm too old now for that but uh it's I thought that was interesting and a good endorsement um but I I think the Clifford Buzz at this point feels pretty real and pretty tangible with so much of this stuff I mean we didn't see a single 11on 11 rep this month and so a lot of this stuff is going to be answered at at West Virginia um but I I think that the Clifford feedback is really interesting to me um with Fleming the spring and uh through the summer it was more about the off field stuff and the in the wide receiver room and and setting the tone that way with how he handles himself how he goes about his business which I think that this room probably needed they probably needed someone with his experience and I guess gravitas to come in and maybe reset things a little bit but there still wasn't too much feedback from Fleming on the field and that's changed a little bit Andy cot Nikki said that Fleming has been a lot more consistent over the back half of training camp cotal Nikki framed it as there were probably times in the first half of camp where Fleming would say that's a play I want back that that's something I want to do differently and that's not happening as much here so I think that's a pretty promising sign in terms of what you can get out of Fleming and then Omari Evans I agree with you Tyler that he's someone who can really be a potential X Factor uh he ran the 40 uh over the summer or the spring at 431 we we knew that he had that kind of speed coming in but to really get that number in the testing environment uh I think kind of makes it clear that the type of weapon that he could be for pen State I asked him uh in at the beginning of the month you know what happened last year and he said that didn't give tooo many details but said that it was a learning experience from him and there's a lot of stuff he took away that he needs to improve and get better at try Walla said that Evans has come into this year and is trying to do everything he can so that he doesn't end up in a situation like he did last year and he doesn't want to give the coaches the excuse or the reasons to leave him on the bench so it seems like he's really motivated he's someone that I really liked watching him play as a freshman I thought that his profile as being a new to the wide receiver position as a high school quarterback in Texas but still having the that skill set I thought really made him a unique Blank Slate for Taylor Stubblefield and then Marcus hains to really work with and I think that if he can click if he can give them that vertical element if he can do some things side to side like we've talked about with Kaden Saunders I think that could be really interesting for this offense because that speed plays 4-31 is no joke and he can get that onto the field and into space Omar Evans could make some things happen and Andy cotoni has a way of making it sound pretty simple right he said if you have an Elite Speed guy put him in a position to use his Elite Speed and that's basically what we heard from I think from James Franklin uh maybe different words were used but coming out of that Michigan State matchup last year on Black Friday in Detroit Mari Evans had had a big long catch right to the goal line and James Franklin was like you know we know he has this trait you know maybe we haven't been you know focused on accentuating it enough over his sophomore year and so yeah we'll find out we'll have a little more conversation on these receivers in our depth chart piece a little bit later here but let's go over to running back because James Franklin shed some very good light on this for us what's going on behind Nick Singleton and KRON Allen we know those guys as long as they're available they're locked in as Leaders of that running back room we also know that if things go according to plan they're probably going to be wearing NFL uniforms next year so when we talk about the number three running back job it's significant right now because of your offensive plan but we're talking about a player who may be able to Surge himself and maybe be a projected starter when this team gets back on the field next spring and right now cam Wallace the red shirt freshman carries the edge for that third running back job James Franklin wasn't ready to to shut it down and say in it's final and he is rb3 he also mentioned that Corey Smith who got to campus in June has emerged under consideration for that job along with fellow freshman Quinton Martin the January en rolly but he did say that cam Wallace has put himself in a spot to be that guy going into West Virginia gameweek um know that there were some bumps and bruises in play not just with Cam Wallace but with Quinton Martin and so a little tougher to gauge last week now we have some clarity there and Mark again all due respect to Trey Potts who did everything that he was asked of last year in that rb3 role coming in as a senior transfer from Minnesota I've been saying for a while whoever lands that rb3 job is gonna add more juice to the offense versus what they had there last year and Tony Roos gave me a pretty good Scouting Report coming off the practice field on Tuesday about cam walls he says that he has the burst that's always been a part of it but there's a versatility to him like Nick Singleton he said he doesn't have Nick size yet I think Nick Singleton's probably still about 15 20 pounds heavier than him but he said he has this blend of being able to take on the contact and keep moving through it but also just straight up make you miss in the open field he said he has been one of the most difficult matchups all preseason camp when they go to one-on-one work offense vers defense you have a certain amount of space someone's going to win that he said cam Wallace has been really really tough to deal with in that setting so what do you think about his emerg here in year two he's a guy who kind of like Omari Evans didn't have a home at this current position in high school he was playing quarterback a lot of teams thought he could maybe be a defensive back or slot receiver at the power five level now here he is maybe being that next man up behind a very talented Duo well he's been in an ideal situation this whole year I mean remember he was banged up last year uh he didn't get into what what exactly the issue was but it really limited what he could do and he talked about how difficult it was to kind of sit on the side line and watch for the first time in his career but fast forward to the spring you know we know what James Franklin does and it's very smart to do this when you have proven Commodities like Nick Singleton and KRON Allen you don't give them a lot of work in the spring and I think that opened up uh the opportunity especially for a guy like cam Wallace to get out there and get a lot of snaps with the ones and do a lot of do a lot of good things from what we're hearing one program Source said he picked up in Fall Camp right where he was in the spring and and and one the the stuff that we were told he's learning how to control his balance staying off the ground not running on his toes and just maybe sinking his hips you know this is like this this is that's not running back 101 this is a guy who already has the fundamentals down and now they're teaching him to take it to the next level and I think that's just so important and then to be in that rb3 role this year behind those two proven Commodities knock on wood let's hope both of those guys stay healthy uh and I say that for all players I'm not being a homer I want all players for all teams to stay healthy but let's hope that they stay healthy but if somebody gets banged up now you have a guy who played all those reps who did all that stuff in the spring and who is getting to that next level in in terms of absorbing the finer points of of what it means to be a running back but to be able to spend two years learning behind those guys and let's assume that they both do head to the NFL I think they're going to be in a really good spot with Cam Wallace and with the other kids they have with Martin and and Smith uh moving forward not to mention kids who could be who are coming into the program so jaywan cider has done a great job in that running back room and I think being able to set up this kid to be rb3 and you know let's see what what Martin's able to do if they need him we talk we've heard all about his versatility and you know the things that he can do is uh kind of do it all Reggie Bush typee of typee of of running back not Reggie Bush hey all ciders say was Marshall Fulk so I mean there you go those but that's that's my point is that you have different kinds of running backs there as well who I think can really complement the big two so I think they're in a really good spot and I think cam walls I don't think I mean I know you know he clearly differentiated himself a little bit in the spring and then in Camp yeah he's looking to make his college football debut uh next Saturday when this team visits West Virginia we'll see what it means for Quinton Martin and Corey Smith James Franklin did mention something interesting essentially treating those freshmen as like one player and and trying to maximize eight game appearances for them in the regular season because you get one guy to four games the other to four games and they maintain that red shirt and then in the postseason James has been very quick to mention this when talking about eligibility then in the postseason all bets are off and maybe you can spring some some guys loose uh in those matchups but we'll keep tabs on the running back position again we don't expect to see a ton of third running back involvement but when they do guys like cam Wallace Quinton Martin are worth keeping tabs on because what they bring to this field um there was a bit of a discussion about the green light in fact you asked about this to James he wasn't ready to go down that road yet because he still had conversations there was conversations Tuesday night into Wednesday W with members of that freshman class and you're either saying hey you got a green light join us on the varsity field next week because we got to get ready for West Virginia and you're going to be involved or you're saying hey you're a scout teamer right now uh you know try to get on that travel roster so you can come and join us and be on the sideline but right now we need you to take on the role of a West Virginia player and help our offense or help our defense get ready and Daniel it's always a you know a bit of a rocky road for some of those freshmen to have to you know digest what their first year might look like on campus but we haven't gotten the green light list I think that maybe that will come for us this upcoming week we understand James wants to take care of of of those matters privately before he goes public with it but what do you think ultimately about the impact of this freshman class we talked so much about what they did in 2022 last year you almost got nothing on offense I think Rapier Andrew Raper played the most out of any offensive freshman and it was like fewer than 40 snaps when you project it do you see scattered imp impact across both sides or do you think it's more of a repat and this will be a team that leans on known Commodities the red shirt discussion is going to be interesting and I thought that Franklin's framing of using Quinton Martin and and Corey Smith as as one person kind of and approaching it like that I thought that was a really unique way of framing it that I haven't really thought about but across college football I mean it's going to be interesting for these teams that are in the in the mix for the playoff because if you max out you could play 17 games this year and if you do that a fresh someone could play in nine games the four regular season and five postseason and still retain their red shirt so they could play someone could still play in more than half of a team's games and and still be a red shirt uh which is kind of crazy to think about when you start going through all the the different combinations and uh you know permutations of the season but I I think Penn State is going to pick Its Spots I do think that we'll see with Quinton Martin and Corey Smith if they do enter into that green light conversation Luke Reynolds is someone where I'm really curious what that looks like of course health is something that is tough to factor in right now because you don't want to predict an injury for anyone but that's something that can change the calculus like it did for a Drew Shelton two years ago that can force someone to need to be ready but I I think that we'll see a decent number of these freshmen this year I think that there will be good opportunities for them and I think that there's pretty good excitement around guys I think that seeing like seeing Lane mentioned as the takeaway King that my and getting the feedback from Justin lustig that he's someone who's really Embrace special teams um that's usually where you see those young defensive backs burn that red shirt I we saw a ton of Elliot Washington's Zion tracy King Mack on those coverage units last year so that's an Avenue um I think Vu T is someone who was on that team white in the spring and I thought looked good in the spring game where does where does he factor in um I think it's kind of the thing with with Cooper cousins is the big outlier but like you say the further you get from the ball it's probably a little bit easier to contribute early um you know all those you think about those Four Freshman defensive tackles I wouldn't count on any of those guys burning that red shirt based on development and what's ahead of them um but it I think that we'll see a good amount of those guys I think that the way that Penn State recruited for the class of 2024 and some of the I there aren't really holes on this roster but I just where the opportunities are on the roster I think it lines up pretty well when you think about someone like a tyer Denmark um in the wide receiver group so I think we'll see a decent amount of them I'm interested in how those red shirts are rationed but we'll see that travel roster we'll see who's who's on the opening kickoff coverage team uh at West Virginia and I think that'll give us really good Insight off the bat on where these freshman stand and of course you're balancing this with with a pretty impressive transfer class in terms of what we expect it for onfield output and guys at cornerback and I know they're high on this Trio of freshman and Kenny wosley and antoan belgrave Scher and John Mitchell but when you add AJ Harris and Jaylen Kimber that complicates the situation um all all sorts of different p and I just want to remind people just because a guy doesn't show up as a freshman on August 31st doesn't mean he can't be a factor later Drew Shelton where was he for most of 2022 he ends up being your starting left tackle for the final five games including the Rose Bowl because of what you needed from him to step up so this freshman class will remain in our attention uh more on the peripheral now that we get into the season but uh some guys we we do expect to be on the field early and often as the season comes I want to give a little Intel on a red shirt freshman deari Nelson um we we mentioned with Tyler calvaruso last episode we looked back a little bit about you know kind of the versatility of his recruitment process a guy that we knew could be eventually be a factor at the second level he did move from safety to line backer James Franklin really talked largely about this being a move dictated by Mother Nature he said the genetics were kind of telling darari that it was time to move he said he was at 220 pounds just about and fighting it they don't want guys fighting to stay at weights he talked a little bit about Abdul Carter trying to fight to stay at 250 pounds at linebacker now he's about 260 playing defensive end so Nelson goes from you know being a big body in the defensive back uh field to being a big body at linebacker I don't think there's anybody aside from Tamir Robinson when we look at practice that really has his length at linebacker and when you look at his frame 6' three 217 pounds is where he listed I mean it it's right up there with anybody in that linebacker room right now and he was working in the back of the pack there and you'd understand that making the transition but Tony roas talked about uh the the tools that he has given some of those linebackers from his uh experience of covering a lot of tight ends at the safety position he's been able to to bring give some advice on inside outside leverage a downfield defensive back coverage kind of techque and he's also learning a lot about what it's like to stick your face in it as a linebacker and and and we've heard good things about how he's responded to that physically uh his aggression and so I don't know necessarily how this shows up defensively for Penn State especially early in the season but I know hearing from Tom Allen hearing from James Franklin and Justin lustig on Tuesday and then Tony Ross a bit I'm really sold on on what they may be seeing from darari Nelson I mean let's not forget he's a top 200 recruit from Selma Alabama guy who was a wanted man in SEC territory Auburn would have loved to have kept him home he was a big win for Penn State on the recruiting Trail and so I think we have to kind of you have to shift Focus because you're talking about a top 247 player who in year two were not saying is gonna play a bunch but I think special teams is going to be a factor for him and I think ultimately let's see November what that two three deep looks like at linebacker and how he's worked his way there we just have to kind of be aware of what the expectations really are right now for Nelson considering his newness at linebacker a mid Camp Swish and by the way the staff raved about his willingness to do this a lot of guys would maybe push back or be uncomfortable it sounds like he's really made that transition he's fired up about it the staff is and so just something to file away in a developmental aspect for this team Mark Andy codel Micki was back at the microphone for us on Tuesday after practice we'll take him every time we can get him fortunately that was the third time in the month of August we're appreciative for that but you were there with Brennan Cam and I'm curious what stood out to you about cotal Nikki's latest runin with us uh I know a variety of questions were thrown his way anything that you feel like would be worthwhile and passing along to our listeners and viewers no I'd just like to talk about him in a in a in a broader perspective because I think sometimes we we try to look at like one one press conference but the body of work what we've seen from him through the spring and then through Camp I mean just the way he carries himself out on that field you know making a goofy nicknames for players putting on a boxing glove and getting in the middle of a drill to to break it up flipping off one of his players jokingly in the middle of a play I mean I'm just telling you I mean that that stuff may sound goofy uh the the the day when he was out there with a cut off shirt when all the offensive coaches were wearing Suns out guns out shirts and he's like in the middle of it flexing for our camera you know that may seem silly but when you compare it to the former offensive coordinator Mike yuch he just seems like he's having a blast out there and the players seem like they're having a blast playing for him and then the other thing is I don't know if you guys are picking it up but Drew Aller to me is doing such a better job of explaining stuff to us about what they're doing it's almost as if he you you can see that he really has grasp this maybe better than whatever was being taught to him before and the one quote that it kind of jumped out to me and I wanted to just say it and it's nothing tremendous but it's I think we do a really good job of getting our best players to ball in space and creating Distortion which is what coach K's philosophy is all about I mean that's Drew Aller in a nutshell saying what all this complicated offense is about and it's one thing for Andy cotal Nikki and if you ever have the the opportunity to talk to him he is very good at explaining complex things in ways that dopes like me can understand it and if you don't understand it and you say hey can you you know explain that then then he'll do it Tom Allen's the same way just with a different personality and I just think what you're seeing from Drew and what you're hearing from Drew part of that is probably his natural development as a young guy but I also think he just has a better grasp of things that's another thing I I keep saying it over and over I am so anxious to see what Drew Aller is all about and I think that's going to tell us what Andy cotal Nikki is all about in that opener against West Virginia I mean I'm just really anxious to see it but I know we were out there on the field and I sent you guys a text and I'm not going to say what the play was but you know Drew Aller said you know it's the hardest thing for me the whole offensive play for the players to adjust to is the verbage because the plays do get a little wordy in terms of length of the of the play and we heard that at practice and it's like B you know all these words you know I think it was 18 words or something you know rattling them off but at this point you could tell that Drew Aller is comfortable with it so yeah I mean it's we could talk about interviewing Andy cotal Nikki but I think kind of seeing the results the other thing when I when I'm thinking about that I you go back to to when you see these um interviews with NFL quarterback prospects when they're at the combine and they're sitting down you know whether it's on Hard Knocks or whatever and they're sitting down with offensive coordinators or head coaches and drawing stuff on the board or or saying what plays are and you hear Drew Aller and that's like wow this sounds like an NFL quarterback barking out a play and so to me you know that that may not seem like a whole heck of a lot but I think the fact that Aller is clearly absorbing this speaks a lot to what Andy cotal Nikki has done but again let's see how it works when they get out there on the field at WVU from a personality standpoint cot Nikki has been exactly as advertised I I'll I'll send some love to in the direction to our Kansas reporters in the network because they gave us kind of the scouting report on this guy and they nailed it they were on the money um major change of pace in terms of what we're dealing with from a media perspective at the offensive coordinator position and I certainly am getting the the sense that it's a major change of pace within team facilities in the offensive meeting room as well Daniel you did a lot of the heavy lifting for us working our way through the transcription from cotal Nikki's latest appearance was there anything specific and I do appreciate the direction that Mark that because I think it's it's something that a lot of fans out there maybe not picking up from afar but anything specific that you felt like was was worth applying to this episode I liked how he compared the play calls to Legos in terms of stacking everything together and it it all fits together um and creates again explaining it so a dope like me could understand it Mark go back and and pick up your Lego set and this is how it works yeah and I I think that Dov Tales too with what Drew when I as Drew Al last week about Luke Reynolds and he talk was talking about how in terms of those tags in the play call that a lot of those apply to the tight ends and apply to the tight ends in different situations and to hear what we heard and then hear that a freshman who got here in in January and is learning a whole new position obviously Reynolds quarterback background probably helps a little bit there but to hear that a freshman coming in is really embracing that and is in tune with it I think that's probably a credit to how cotal Nikki is teaching things to this group um one thing he said about Drew Aller was that he talked about you see someone from afar and you don't really get that into it because you're focused on your own stuff at a different school and he said it's you just see the sports center highlights of of guys at other places but he said that getting here and working with Aller uh all's decision making has stood out to him uh he also highlighted all's want to get better and to grow I think that that is especially after how we saw last year go for Drew Aller to know that he has that kind of approach and that want to and and willingness to really build on what he did last year and maybe clean up some of the things that didn't go as well I think that that stands out to me as well but I thought Mark did a really good job of summarizing what we heard from codal Nikki and how he's being how he's presenting himself to us and how we're seeing him come across both on the field with his play players and in these media situations yeah one other one other thing Tyler and yeah as Daniel was going through that I remembered one quote and uh somebody asked him about a quarterback kind of understanding the game and and seeing things because that's what he's talking about Aller has and cotal Nikki said uh that's why NFL quarterbacks get paid like a bazillion dollars you know so I mean it's he obviously thinks very highly of Drew Aller and that's I know I keep saying it but I just want to see this whole package out on the field because I have a feeling that it's going to work I have a feeling that that this is going to come together but we're not going to know until they get out there so I'm so anxious to see this and see if they're actually able to do the stuff that they're talking about and I want to know how Bo per fits in because apparently any cot Nikki thinks he fits in and and I want I'm really curious to see what that looks like shifting gears I dove into uh Tom Allen's audio uh on our site this week and and if you've been following our live updates at Lin 247.com we appreciate you um but this I I think after hearing from Tom Allen earlier this August I talked about on the podcast how he is personally just really enjoying a reset for himself going from the CEO who has to deal with NL and transfer portal and everything when you're managing a staff and an entire roster to now being a defensive coordinator and a linebacker coach you can shut himself in his office and review film and Mark you wrote a great piece about his ability to now evaluate film and and and how much that matters to him and it's kind of his his little quiet special space in in the world of football that was kind of taken away from him a little bit as the head coach at Indiana but this time I'm gonna go more down the line of Tom Allen looking around what he has taking stock of it and really sinking in that he's never had an Arsenal like this as a coach with what he has right now and the Blue Chip Talent he has as a coach he talked about those Dynamic defensive ends the bookends we expect to see out there a bunch and Deni Dennis suon and ABDO Carter and how much advantages is to have one of those guys he said when you have two all of a sudden the offense can't say well we're shifting PR protection to this side we'll be okay they've got to make a decision they have to kind of pick their poison and I mean just hearing from everybody on this has been on the practice field in the month of August it really sounds like this Abdul Carter and Deni Dennis sudden combination is going to be just as good as you think it might uh Ian it's really exciting stuff when when we're talking about moving on from Adisa Isaac and chop Robinson and not only is there zero discussion there being a falloff in the starting spot at that at that position but people think that they can build off what those two accomplished last year with their roles here in 2024 the other thing I'll get to is defensive tackle Tom Allen said it's the first time in his coaching career that he feels like he can really work legitimately with at least five defensive tackles on a game- to game basis and we knew there was going to be at least four that that were going to punch their ticket be part of the conversation as long as they avoided injury this preseason uh you've got returning starters in Devon Jay Thomas zann Durant Hakeem Bean was your starter for the first half of last season and then kiah isard has played a ton of big 10 football the fifth name that has popped up over and over and over again and and with more emphasis each time is Alonzo Ford and to his credit he came to campus last year got a week of practice work and then was sidelined all the way until this August after making his move from Old Dominion and yet he showed up on the field playing about 30 pounds heavier than he really has for any prolong period in his football career and he has been a resounding surprise in a very good way we heard James Franklin use the term pleasant surprise that's exactly how Tom Allen described him on Tuesday as well and he says they're going to need all those guys in more defensive tackle he actually referenced what you did Mark he says when you talk about the potential length of this season and the nature of that position on the interior of the trenches the attrition that can occur he says we need those five and probably more and so when you look Beyond you know you're talking about Caleb artist Ty Blanding they've been around for a bit you got Four Freshman I don't know what to expect from there Xavier gillams really the one that's come up in conversation and then looking over at linebacker he just feels like with dom Duca Kobe King and Tony roas that's a trio that he can count on in a significant way not just count on uh to to execute the game plan but to go chase after ball carriers with Elite athleticism I mean he like everybody else thinks Tony roas can be a superstar and and can get there in a pretty pretty big hurry and like everybody else he thinks that Kobe King it can be a lynchpin for this defense as a team captain as a second-year starter at the Mike linebacker and like everybody else he respects the hell out of Dom Duca he actually referenced Dom Duca and Tamir Robinson a really intriguing red shirt freshman linebacker as two guys he could see playing all three position the Sam the will the Mike and the caveat here is how much will we see three linebackers out there together we talked about a lot the 425 with a line position a safety maybe a cornerback coming a linebacker off the field but I know when we see those three linebackers it really does sound like it's going to be Duca King and uh and roas leading the way but there are other pieces in the mix and specifically Tamir Robinson is somebody that I was very intrigued by the feedback from Tom Allen finishing camp and James Franklin noted he had an illness uh during Camp missed some time lost some weight but really finished Camp kind of where he started it as an ascending figure and they need him at linebacker right now without Keon Wy without Kavon Keys those were names that we thought were going to be important two deep kind of components they're not in the picture at the moment uh so just just a few things there from Tom Allen we have more over at lines 247.com but I thought it was just interesting to hear him talk about the front seven in particular and all the pieces and components and talent and just knowing that he loved those players in Indiana but he couldn't get those kind of guys to Bloomington like he has right now in Happy Valley and that's got to be exciting for him and Daniel under the radar certainly compared to Tom Allen and Andy cotel Nikki Justin lustic made the move from Vanderbilt as special teams coordinator he's also coaching the outside linebackers and doing other work on the field for the defense but you spoke with him uh and and that's a an area where we know the punter is in good shape Ry Thompson was named a team captain but we're still trying to figure out what the place kicker spot looks like we want to know what the return situation looks like anything to kind of throw our way here from your conversation with lustig yeah lustig wouldn't name a leader at kicker I I think some of the feedback we've gotten over the past couple of months had Ryan Barker and Sanders sahak a little bit ahead of Chase Meyer but lustic wouldn't go one way or the other he said that he wants to have it sorted out in the next few days he said that on Tuesday and today's Thursday so I assume by next Tuesday when we see them again we could know um if he doesn't know by now you gotta be kidding me come on hey all the last year how much I mean how would Stacy Collins was the coordinator but how much were they really convinced that Sanders the haak was their starting going into game one if they came out of halim and had someone else as their kicker but that's my point it's like by this point you've picked who you're starting kicker it's going to be now what's going to happen if he goes out there and misses two field goals in the first half of of under 40 yards or whatever it was uh then then you're going to have to make a change but by this point he already knows that's coach speak which is fine I don't care it's gamesmanship but don't tell us that you don't know just say that yeah we have a pretty good feel but we're not going to say who it is at this point yeah so we see uh he expects Riley Thompson to have a big year to to get better improve on what he did last year he thinks Tyler danzansky The Long Snapper has the potential to play at the next level and then in the return game didn't get too many names put out there but he said he feels really good about Kaden Saunders as a punt returner he said that last year we saw Saunders could be reliable catching the ball and then the one thing that we saw dayquon Hardy bring add to that was the explosiveness lustic said that they've seen some of that explosiveness from Saunders during fall camp at kick returner Nick Singleton looks like it'll still be the guy they might pick their spots with him depending on if they if a team usually does touchbacks they might keep Nick Singleton on the sideline they might put him in situationally a little bit but he did mention cam M Omari Evans and Quinton Martin as guys behind Nick Singleton who've embraced and then I mentioned this uh a little bit earlier about danan Lane being someone who stands out as a freshman embracing special teams uh the other two guys that lustig mentioned were Quinton Martin who I could see having a roll back there given what we know about his skill set and then Anthony speca uh the The Freshman linebacker uh so that's kind of the that's cliff notes of of what we got from lustig tried to hit on a couple spots and get as many names uh from POS as possible from him a little more to say about Anthony specka when we talk about that linebacker depth chart uh pretty soon here but let's just quickly wrap on what we experienced over at Penn State team facilities and getting into some player conversations I just wanted to mention a few things with Deni Den a suton I'll give you the Bold point we have a bunch more lines 247.com from that conversation but the former five star burn redirt in 2022 started three games last year when chop Robinson was unavailable and although he is seemingly overshadowed by Abdul Carter on the national landscape you will see deny Dennis Sutton's name show up in those first round mock draft projections for 2025 already he was actually I was approaching him he was on his phone on the practice field I'm like all right well he's checking his social media practice just got done I get it that's cool then I realized he was watching film and I was like is that film from like the practice that you just finished he said yeah so we know they had a department the video department does a great job that's how quickly these guys have access to to their practice film and that's how locked in Deni Dennis Sutton is right now he was still you know sweaty still had the grass stains on him and he's already reviewing film before he's got to talk with us dopes during a media session so really appreciate the time from Deni and kind of the candid nature of of that conversation um he said he wants he wants to be the best defensive end in the country not just the best defensive end on this defense but in the nation and he referenced a tweet I don't know if he referenced or if I referenced it but there was a tweet in 2022 that he posted before he even enrolled at Penn State and it said I will be the best defensive event in college football and I had noted to deny I saw that you retweeted that reposted it a few days ago here in August why did you do that and he said it was kind of just to remind himself of the goal that he has in front of him and he feels like it's achievable right now he said there's been times where he's kind of had to fake it until you make it with his confidence maybe he wasn't the most confident but he tried to to project that and tried to kind of talk his way through it he says he just truly believes he can go out there and be the best defensive end in college football he says yeah there's also a little bit of competition with Abdul Carter they've been workout uh partner since early in the year when when Abdul Carter got relocated at defensive end and he says they've really driven each other and there's moments whether it's on the practice field he said it'll probably be in a game he says oh Abdul just got a sack I better go get a sack and much like last year I think you've got a situation where two guys could end up as all big 10 caliber high level NFL draft prospects maybe two first round talents and before they actually go hunting together uh I thought it was just really really cool to hear from Deni Denis Sutton about what that partnership has meant to him and the way it's kind of lifted up both of those guys one other thing he mentioned here I was going to pass along he's had two dreams about the West Virginia matchup so far he said he's never had dreams about any games in the past but he had some specific ones the first one he had a strip sack against West Virginia the second one he doesn't recall who the ball carrier was for the Mountaineers but he knocked the ball loose forced the fumble and he just says he said it was wild they said it was a bit crazy uh but this is a guy I think it just kind of speaks to how much right now his subconscious even when he's trying to sleep is pushing these goals into his head and he is about as motivated as I've heard from a pen State player going into their uh into an upcoming season as i' I've heard on on the beat and I guess that's kind of just who Deni Dennis Sutton is going back to high school we've heard that he was going to be a pro he was GNA be one of the most accountable figures in the locker room and he's really lived up to that for the most part he's played a bunch of football and now he's telling us all that the next step awaits for him so we'll see if there's a force fumble from Deni Denis sudden in West vir irginia remember where you heard it and then we'll have to follow up with him and see if he has any other dreams or predictions coming up so um that's all we got I actually have one more because we haven't talked about him enough and he may may be the offensive lineman who who leaves the field as little as just about anybody on the that's VGA Yan last year he ended up playing a ton of football he only started five games but I think he had the third most snaps by season's end out of any offensive line and and Daniel I know you got to spend some time with him you wrote some updates out our board before we dive into the depth chart it's certainly seems like he secured his status to remain the first team left guard going into the season what did you hear from him one of the biggest guys on this team but relatively softspoken for being a 350 pounder yeah one thing that we heard from Drew Aller last week was that Yan is taking a step forward in terms of being more vocal making his voice being heard and asked vanga about that and he said that he's not a rah rah guy but if there's something that's going on and he feels he needs to say something he'll Step Up step up and say it and I think that that stands out when you talk about this class of 2022 and where guys are in their careers and I think yoan is in a position to be a breakout player this year from that class he talked a lot about learning the center position and we've seen him snap to the quarterbacks and he's someone who can provide depth there he said that last year Phil troutwine asked him if he'd ever snapped and he said no I played left tackle for all of high school and so they said that he's worked there he said that he feels pretty good he was pretty self-deprecating about it he said that you know if he comes in they might miss abat here or there because he's not Nick Dawkins and Nick Dawkins is is the guy but he thinks he could do a pretty good job um he had he had a good another good story about Dawkins and his leadership uh and how he's making cohesion in that offensive line group um they said that before the first team meeting of the year do told all of the offensive linemen to go to Walmart and buy black tank tops to wear to the team meeting so the team meeting started and it's all offensive linemen in black tank tops in one part of the room um then he had another good anecdote about how Phil troutwine is preparing these guys he said that there was he was in a group of five guys going through walkth through and troutline pointed at them and told them to switch spots and continue doing the walk through and Yan said that they didn't miss a beat that they knew where everyone was supposed to be they knew how it was supposed to work I think that's really interesting when you consider the amount of players that Penn State plans to rotate this year and that if injuries do come up which is how this works sometimes that guys might have to be shifted around and be in in different combinations so I thought that that was really interesting the last point from vanga uh is that he got asked the the classic how excited are you to hit somebody else finally when West Virginia you know when you play West Virginia and he seems pretty excited he said that he's been waiting since the Old Miss game y'all know what happened I gotta let some things out so he seems very very ready uh for you know for what we'll we'll get next Saturday he seems ready to be out there on the field again and I'm you know really interested to see what he can do I know that we were doing we did some we have some breakout picks for next week that that we'll go over and I considered him for my offensive breakout pick I think that like Tyler said he's not going to leave the field very much and with that frame and that athleticism I think that he's someone you can really notice this year on the field I may go with Singleton I I considered the breakout pick for for Yan too but he got like 600 snaps last year I know I'm gonna get I know I'm gonna get Flack for what my I picked Harrison walls for an offensive breakout you know assuming he's got one career touchdown we're gonna get into that next week but uh yeah it's fun coners ation behind the scenes here we don't do all the Talking just on the podcast but you had a Yan note too uh Mark that you wanted to yeah I got over there for a little bit Daniel was doing a great job of of interviewing wenga but I asked what he weighs now and Daniel was it 340 345 or 340 he said he was still 340 yeah 340 so I said what's what's your body fat percentage and he said 19% so I looked it up and the average NFL offensive lineman their body fat is estimated between 18 and 30% I would bet you that any of those 340 Pounders none of them are under 20% I mean this guy you can't you cannot appreciate how massive he is I mean he's like a brick wall it's unbelievable 19% may sound like a lot because you know skill players maybe 10 11 12 or whatever or maybe even less but for these offensive linemen I would be willing to bet that there isn't there is not one or two offensive linemen in the NFL who weigh 340 who have who have a body fat percentage of less than 20% it's just it's unbelievable how massive this guy is and so many times when you see guys this big it's all heavyweight it's all you know fat literally and that's obviously not the case with this dude there was that uh Camp last I think last summer when James Franklin pulled venga aside and walked him over to a group of parents walking and asked them to guess how much Ango weighed and I think at that point they were listing him up over 350 and so he's just a very impressive uh phys just physical presence out there I was gonna say James told us on Signing Day and if you remember he was the the cherry on top for that recruiting class of 2022 they they he was a former Washington commit he'll get a chance to actually face the huskys in Happy Valley this year uh but made the cross country Trek and you're like how's this going to work out you know and it's worked out tremendous ly and one of the earliest things that James Franklin says is he was the best looking 340 pound specimen I've ever seen and that was was when he was the high school senior I just wanted to piggy back on something you said Daniel because you're talking about guys being ready to play multiple positions and and venga Yan is one where he could be at guard maybe he needs to be at Center um you've got Cooper cousins same deal guard Center JB Nelson guard tackle and then just one more to add to that list because James Franklin brought it up Javin Williams who's been trying to push Drew Shelton for that left tackle position has also been getting work at guard and that's where he primarily played at Wy missing High School when he was a five-star recruit so uh versatility really across this offensive line and we know if they're going to go you know eight Deep by design game game one that that that's going to be really an important component and uh let's get into our depth chart now and I think we've already covered a lot of ground um through a lot of these different position conversations so we won rehash a lot of it at quarterback you've got Drew Aller Bo Fula as the backup we're really intrigued by what his role will look like third leading rusher for this team last year 10 total touchdowns in a backup rle and then Ethan grun has an opportunity to to hold on to that qb3 rooll for a while here with Jackson smolik sidelined from a spring injury uh Ethan gramer has been loading up on reps on the practice field it's it's you know good for him and it's it's tough for smik although we we've heard he've handled that pretty well but right now you're you're going into the season with three available scholarship quarterbacks that's what the number was last year when smolik was your third running back and then or quarter back I should say and then at running back as we just kind of laid out that QB that running back three job is is right now in the hands of Cam Wallace uh not solidly but but it's there right now and then you got Quinton Martin and Corey Smith the two freshman kind of tailing a bit behind I thought it was interesting that James Franklin brought up Corey Smith and said that you know he's really made an impression because he's somebody that we figured would kind of be you know going from from from quite far behind the pack coming in in the summer so good to hear some some some feedback there but let's talk rece that's the one that I'm sure a lot of people when they clicked on our depth chart um and you know scrolled down to find out what we thought about the receiver position and Mark let's focus on the two outside roles first we're not going to call them wide receiver one or wide receiver two because that's going to confuse people and think that we're putting them on some kind of pedestal we're just gonna say these are the two outside positions and Harrison Wallace who we do think is wide receiver one uh filling one of those roles the other spot we think it's too close to call Omari Evans Julian Fleming both of them have seemingly finished preseason camp on a positive note they got a week of practice here I think we're going to see both of them uh and and who we'll see first you know that that'll be determined that starter but maybe the the guy who comes in second ends up with more snaps by the end of the game it's one of those things and I think when you look at who's behind those four or who's behind those three at the outside spots Liam Clifford you know one of the reasons we keep mentioning Liam Clifford is because he is the most legitimate option on this receiving Corp to start at slot and to start outside probably would have said that was cendre Lambert Smith in March then he left the program right now it's Liam Clifford you could see him as a starter in the slot you could see him lining up opposite of Harrison Wallace outside depending on what they have cooking at wide receiver and then you've got guys like Maki flowers Tyler Johnson uh working on the outside they came in a couple years ago haven't really been able to find their footing quite yet on the field mcki flower shifted from safety and then in the slot guys we we've got Liam Clifford at top that right now knowing that he could be playing outside Kaden Saunders below him and again Kaden Saunders what's his availability look like going into week one we'll see on Tuesday then we got tyer Denmark Anthony Ivy right there I just wanted to kind of give a lay of the land on kind of how we were projecting this early mark from maybe start of preseason to the end of preseason is there something that catches your eye about this group yeah I'm just anxious to see who besides that big three kind of or big four I guess I should say because you have Trey Wallace you have Liam Clifford you have Amari Evans and Julian Fleming I mean I think those guys have all pretty much established themselves and I don't think it I mean James Franklin has has has said as much so from everything we've seen and everything we've heard you have those four but where is the depth going to come from and that's why when you keep your ear to the ground every little thing that you hear I mean or or or or you every little bit of Intel you know so when you hear the daai here Denmark is kind of stepping it up you know that kind of you're like okay well maybe this is one of the guys who's able to fit in there I don't know that four is necessarily enough I mean so they're going to need some one of those other a couple of those other players to step up you know whether it's Denmark whether it's Tyler Johnson McKai flowers I mean Ivy a guy moving over from uh or flowers flowers moved over from safety right or am I getting that wrong yeah got right I've been confusing those two kids since they since they were recruited but I mean the key is somebody else stepping up and becoming you know the fifth sixth seventh guy in that rotation because in invariably again knock on wood they all stay healthy but somebody's going to get banged up somebody may not produce something may happen you're gon to need other people to step up yeah they did lose Peter Gonzalez during the course of this preseason camp we saw him out there on the practice field supporting his teammates but uh not somebody we're expecting to see here uh early on in in his freshman year we hope he gets back to the field sooner rather than later but of course going back to the spring get three veterans depart via the transfer portal and Keandre Lambert Smith Malik mlan and Malik Mega and so you know I think they they have said in the past it's important to get the six names I don't think they're necessarily there right now but the key here Daniel could be that they could probably get four names from that tight end room that that are ready to go out and make an impact in the passing game and going over to that spot Tyler Warren unquestionably the leader of the pack but much like running back three this the tight end two spot has been an area where it's been very important to pay attention to that because Warren's going to move on after this year so whoever if someone's able to kind of take that role and run with it this year they're going to be in a really good spot going into 2025 but just in terms of what we're going to see week one West Virginia it's kind of got a wrench thrown into it because Khalil dinkin was sidelined for kind of an extended period here in August based on what we've gathered you know James Franklin told us nine days ago that khil dinkin had been banged up hadn't been available we got on the on the practice field a week after Franklin's comments he was not out there again with the tight ends and so that would seemingly leave a really wide open door for Andrew Raper who we've talked about being the primary competitor for that uh Second tight end job right now we've got him with a bit of an edge but we're applying the ore between dinkin and rap and we've got three ores though that that follow and and this is where it gets interesting Daniel Luke Reynolds Joey schlier and Jerry cross the tight end room is highly competitive um you know I think this is a spot where we're applying these ores but we're putting Luke Reynolds at the top of that or list because it does feel like no disrespect to Jerry cross and Joey SCH Scher we've just heard more things about Luke Reynolds Turning Heads uh versus you know hearing that cross has gotten bigger and schlafer has gotten bigger we have heard that re's gotten bigger but we've heard a bit more and we know he's the number one tight end recruit in the country coming to campus Ty Tyler has respect for the touchdown King title uh when when it comes to the depth chart um but yeah I mean I think that Raper is in the is in a position to be out there against West Virginia and be able to make an impact and establish himself as that next tight end after Tyler Warren I think that it'll be worth monitoring dinkin and if we see him out there next week I think that he's someone who will have a role in this offense I think that he has that versatility to do the different things and line and line up in different spots um like we saw in the past that he did last year um but I do think that Reynolds too is someone that we have to factor in I mean James Franklin told us that Reynolds is gonna play it's just a question of how much and it'll be interesting what situations that ends up being in but I do think it's been pretty quiet on the cross and Schafer front both of those guys physically um I think that the quote that tyal had is that Luke Reynolds walked into that room and saw everyone who was in there including Jerry cross and schlafer and dinkin Warren Rafer and said oh I I do have to get bigger I do have to match the the physiques that are in here and he's gone ahead and done that uh pretty quickly too so I I think that Reynolds is in a good position to make a move we'll see I'm curious if it's four if they ration it out or if it gets to the point where it's October and it's yeah he's this red shirt is burned he's Off to the Races but it's gonna be an interesting depth chart I think that Tyler Warren is the guy everything after that you can really shake it up throw it out there and I think it can look a lot of different ways when you look at Jerry cross at 268 pounds I mean I think we also have to take into account that different players could be used in different situations right I mean we saw it with denans last year where they got him in a lot of goal line situations as a as a passing threat but you have to imagine if they go jumbo with three tight ends that a 268 pound Jerry cross might look pretty good out there so I think as we put these things down there we're talking about you know where guys may be in the overall flow a game but don't forget there could be specialty situations where one guy may be a better fit than another guy I think Tyler Warren's going to be Tyler Warren's the guy who can do it all and I think Rapier is number two in that regard the guys who can be out there for every single play but beyond that I think they have great mix and match options they've done a great job recruiting that position we've seen them go full seasons of starting two guys and and we'll see where wide receivers at we know they like the tight end Talent you're going to see a lot of them but you know if dinkin is available and rap is doing his thing and Tyler Warren is who we think he's going to be man it's just like how do you get Luke Reynolds on the field even if he is showing up in big ways in the practice field it's a good problem to have right now and and it kind of H shows exactly what's going on in that tight end room lately in terms of the talent that was wrapped last year wasn't it I mean exactly exactly everything we heard about him was how you know how great the guy was and and fortunately for Penn State they were able to get through with red shirting him so maybe that's the case with Reynolds that you have him ready to go just in case or you use those four games but I mean clearly I think he's proven in Camp that he's capable of playing as a true freshman whether they need him or not remains to be seen let's work our way through the offensive line we talked about a lot of this already but at left tackle we see Drew Shelton holding on to that job uh he finished last season as the starting left tackle wi Olu fashanu opted out of the bowl game missed Spring ball with an injury Javin Williams got a lot of work we think he's the next man up there we think he may get some game workk by Design as well uh maybe have tackle maybe at guard and then JB Nelson is another name to know at left tackle you're going to see him involved like I said at guard and Tackle positions at left guard we again think it will be venga Yan finished the year last year as the starter there JB Nelson was sideline a couple different stretches last year he was the opening day starter in 2023 at left guard so he's going to remain a presence there Alex birm a top 100 overall recruit in the 2023 class we've got listed right now as a third stringer at left guard over at Center as we've discussed Nick Dawkins is going to be be the lead guy there venga Yan maybe the the plan B right now and and perhaps the air apparent though is Cooper cousins who we could see push for work at guard or or Center against West Virginia at Right Guard s Wormley he started the last 26 games there we'll think he's goingon to log number 27 in a row against West Virginia although he's you know maybe you have to sweat it out a little bit this season with Cooper cousins breathing down his neck and um working our way to right tackle we've got an or designated there between Anthony Dono and Nolan Ruchi currently leaning toward donko being the first team nod he was uh the man who impressed in the second half of the peach bow with Kaden Wallace you know watching from the sideline carried a lot of momentum through this year they love a lot about what he's bringing physically and mentally that that position but also noan roach's come a long way since making his move from Wisconsin he's a red shirt Junior I think we're gonna see him by Design involv and something we heard this week uh from denight Dennis Sutton was that the offense and he was talking about how it's trickier to to deal with than than the past years here at Penn State he talked about bringing in multiple or or extra tackles and dealing with that and you know when you think about an extra tackle certainly could be Nolan Ruchi right now when they try to go with a six-man front in certain scenarios so um you know guys like Chim Diono Garrett seon Egan Boer those are developmental pieces at the tackle positions you've got Donnie Harbor and Caleb Brewer who are freshman on the interior spots as well you can go through our whole four five deep across the entire Jeet chart at lines 247.com but that's the lowdown on the on the offensive line and then on the defensive line which is you know we can talk a little bit more about this group Daniel because I want to pick your brain on something but defensive end Deni Dennis sudden and abdor Carter are the two guys that we've discussed as being the leader of the pack and then Smith vilbert Aman vanover veterans on this team vilbert hasn't played in a regular season game since 2021 but people are raving about his contributions in preseason camp we think they're the number two defensive ends and it gets interesting after that will it be Joseph mapo or Mason Robinson as year two guys someone like Max Granville freshman who showed up in Late July from Texas you know burst onto the scene and sees an opportunity there's a lot of depth young unproven depth Beyond those top four defensive end and then at tackle we just talked about it you can go five deep pretty confidently right now when you add Alonzo forward to that conversation and then can Ty Blan or Caleb Aris uh make a move in in their second and third years respectively any of those freshman defensive tackles there's a lot of names there Daniel a lot of proven Commodities and a lot of guys who are going to be gone from the program I mean there's no area on this roster when I project that's going to have as much of kind of a reset as the defensive line will next year because who we think will leave but when you go through all the the pieces and parts and there's only so many snaps if you're Dion Barnes right now and I know you're not but if you are Deon Barnes what are you kind of doing to make sure you're maximizing this group I I think that you're you know making sure that you're rotating keeping guys fresh and giving maybe some of these younger guys the chance to step up we know that Deni Dennis Sutton and Abdul Carter are really really good players our potential first round draft picks but you not only need them to be fresh in the fourth quarter against West Virginia you might need them to be fresh in the fourth quarter in December at Beaver Stadium you might need them to be fresh in the fourth quarter beyond that um so I think if you're Deion Barnes you know with some of the losses that you've had you know to your depth in that room I think that you need to figure out okay you know is Mason Robinson ready is Joseph mupo ready to contribute how many snaps can those guys get to be that number five and and number six in the rotation know when Zariah fiser got hurt we were kind of like okay you know they can still go five deep but then after you lose Jamal Lions now you're down to four uh guys that you kind of know and that that have played a lot um so I think that you know can Jaylen Harvey contribute um you know what can Jordan Mayer do Max Granville it's kenzer offici come back um I think that if you're Deon Barnes you you need to figure out how to keep those Edge rushers fresh um throughout this entire season and you to keep the keep those guys healthy a defensive tackle I think you have the depth um to that that's not really a question um just looking at how many names that you have on here and how long some of these guys have been around and what we think the potential or the ceiling is I think is is really really impressive but I think for me you know looking at this I think the edge rusher spot really stands out to me yeah and and and maybe it's a little more front loaded with the snaps than what we've seen in recent Seasons you know last year chop Robinson Anda Isaac they got pretty light workloads I mean not just in blowouts but even in some of the closer games because of the rotational aspect and you know could you see this team maybe lean a little more heavily on on two projected first round NFL draft picks and Deni Dennis Sutton and ab quarter coming out the gates at least especially as you're trying to get Smith vilbert worked back into the live game action and I mean bover is the guy that they really seem to be excited about and that's been dating back to the spring in terms of someone who can really step up for that defensive end unit but he's got to be available he missed I think four or five games last year with an injury over at linebacker we talked about what we think the top three would look like with Dominic DeLuca he was the understudy at Sam linebacker last year behind Curtis Jacobs now we think he's the lead guy there Mike linebacker remains Kobe King named a team captain and at the will spot Tony roa's ready to step up and and we heard James Franklin say earlier this year he thinks his production Skyrocket beyond that group Tamir Robinson probably the name to know behind Roos at the wheel spot he could also contribute at Mike but you've got Tyler Ellen which is you know I know a lot of people you know aren't fonded he kind of is the guy that that people have pointed to and say why is Tyler Ellen on the field we don't like this on our message board but Ellen is somebody that has played a lot of football and to have somebody like that as your backup mic not just uh as someone who's going to get playing time but as someone who's going to be a sounding board in the sidelines and I think it's it's pretty important to have him a former starter at mikee linebacker as as the backup there and then at Sam we we think there's a move being made by Anthony specka The Freshman linebacker who came to campus from Pittsburgh Central Catholic during the summer physically really put himself in a good spot to reach preseason camp and go compete with older players and hold his own and then mentally he's been really sharp by many accounts and his ability to to take and then interpret and then utilize everything he's hearing from Tom Allen defensive coordinator linebackers coach so we think that speca has an opportunity to maybe break through crack that to deep I think he can be a special teams component so another name that we're kind of monitoring um we had not seen much of kri Jackson lately the other freshman linebacker they only brought two on board but again this is a spot that's impacted by injuries and dismissals with Kon keys and Keon Wy out of the mix and the big thing here though Mark is we just don't know when Abdul Carter when number 11 is gonna work his way back to linebacker and it's going to be week by week maybe a possession by possession kind of thing do you think this linebacker unit beyond the top three is built to supply you an elite level defense from game one through maybe game 17 if they stay healthy and if this defense ends up being the kind of working the way that we think it's going to work where we see a lot of that line position and maybe you're only playing with two linebackers but you know right now I agree with you I mean I think it's unfair the criticism that Tyler ston takes to me this is another one of those guys who may not be a starter but he's like another captain on that team and he's an excellent insurance policy uh in case you know Kobe King gets bumped up to have him back there I think is excellent and to give Kobe King a break I think that's really good if he had to be an every down player maybe they have to make a move that may just be the case because I I just don't know that he has the athletic ability uh but I think given what we saw in the blue white game given what we're hearing about this team given how much given what we've seen from Tom Allen defenses over the years it's not going to be surprising to see a lot of that 425 and if that's the case I think this linebacker unit is going to be just fine I'm also you know we mentioned it earlier the first practice where we saw darari Nelson he was kind of not in with the main groups but I don't think they move him unless they intend to to to work him up there I think it would have been on fair for them to throw him in with the first couple groups when he just moves to that position but I would really keep an eye on darari because he's a guy you know we were talking about him before I remember the first time I saw him it was at the Hershey children's visit a couple years ago or last year not this year but the previous year I'm like I was drawing a blank on who he was because I'm like who who who's this linebacker this kid is like gigantic and he's got the size he's got the athletic ability it's going to be a a a a matter of getting used to playing linebacker so you know we have him down there as a fourth teamer but I could really see him being somebody who climbs up and gives them that depth that they need and I think you you hit on something earlier too I think tamir's availability to play Anywhere is could come in to play again if there are injuries I think he's a guy who can move over and play Mike for you I think he can I think he could play all three of the positions um not having Keon Wy he's a guy who I think we jeed probably playing as a backup Mike linebacker that's going to you know that that doesn't help but I think overall given the style defense we think we're going to see and giving the flexibility of Abdul Carter I think they're going to be okay good note on Nelson and I think just generally if you go check out our depth chart just realize we're trying to to capture the picture of what it looks like for this game now right now the last week of August not what it might look like when they go out to USC in mid- October because it is week to week and we will adjust it week to week uh we'll come up with dep charts projected uh game by game basis this is just a starting point for us uh over in the defensive back field um and let's go with Lion first because kind of jumping off from the linebacker that's going to be impacted by the lion role Jaylen Reed has been pointed to as the clear leader there for a while but there's layers to this there's going to be essentially what sounds like an early downline kind of role with Jaylen and then more of an obvious passing Down lion roll and cam Miller has been the the name that's come up most often from there it sounds like it will come from the the cornerback room so we're considering jayen Reed and Ken Miller kind of the top there but Colin dkin Tyrese Mills both of them are are in the safety room right now they played a lot there in the blue white game they've continued to work there and dinkin is really the guy the younger brother of khil dingens at tight end joined the program as a walk-on he told me this this uh this month he never saw himself as becoming a 44 kind of speed guy he has become that at Penn State he's got great length and size he keeps showing up on the practice field so a name to watch there line position and at safety and of course we're trying to figure out at safety who the fourth guy will be because we know Jaylen Reed Zaki Wheatley and KJ Winston are the primary Trio there we expect to see when it's a two safety set to maybe start a game Reed and Winston but again when Reed's up at the line position and if that's you know if we're going to see some of that standard 425 setting then we're expecting to see Wheatley and Winston back deep Reed stepping up near the linebackers but beyond that group you know not only do you have Colin dinkin fighting we've got him listed right now as a second teamer but Ty Mills the Lac ofana product I just said he's going to play some lion he's bounced between linebacker and safety got Lamont Payne who came from the cornerback room this past year and then those two freshman that we've heard a lot about Daniel you referenced dwan Lane you know having a really strong preseason camp after coming in summer he's got the size sounds like he's gonna be a potential green like guy I know vabo Tor really set a lot of foundation for himself through Spring ball built on that and so safety depth remains pretty damn impressive as it has been under Anthony Poindexter and at cornerback you want to talk about about impressive depth you know you know we've heard from the position coach Terry Smith this group can be better and deeper than what they did in 2023 and that was a really really strong cornerback unit um we've got right now a couple ores up top which probably isn't that surprising for people who have been following our coverage of the cornerback room we're not ready to declare a starter the staff hasn't done that we're not ready to do it we got cim Miller and and um and AJ Harris as or starters on one side and then on Daven Collins who's been a breakout player all year long year or two after his Mississippi transfer Mississippi State transfer as an or with Jaylen Kimber who just joined the program from Florida back in January Beyond those four that we have designated as potential starters the next tier is Elliot Washington Zion Tracy they burn red chirs last year as freshman if you didn't add a couple really talented transfer players they're probably more in that conversation to start right now and then you've got three more cornerbacks the freshman class and and Antoine belgrave shorter John Mitchell and Kenny wosley so it feels like they have freshman who in in other secondaries would would burn red shirt maybe in other Penn State secondaries would burn red shirt but Daniel when you talk about the abundance of talent at the very top of that cornerback room what we're projecting for it and then over at the safety unit Terry Smith Anthony poter what do you view as the keys to again maximizing what appears to be a bit of a luxurious position for them I think the keys are figuring out who the dudes are who you want out there in the four fourth quarter of a close game I think that they have enough depth that they can rotate through and we know that they won't be afraid to put young guys out there in key spots I think back to the 2021 loss to Michigan when uh Michigan scored the long touchdown that won the game kayin King was out there as a true freshman um and that's you know on a team that had Joey Porter Jr and Tariq Castro Fields you know two draft picks out there um so you know these guys are going to play and they're going to play in big spots but I think that you want to know who you can put out there and you know really really trust and really really rely on in the biggest spots of the season I think that's something that stands out to me and I also think figuring out how to utilize the different skill sets um and I think we've heard a lot about that through the spring with which players were getting looks at the lion early on AJ Harris was someone that we heard was getting some reps there Zion Tracy with somebody else um how can you move these guys around and use these different pieces and different positions to get those combinations on the field for different situations I am this is a thing where once we get to West Virginia the mechanics of this are going to be really interesting to see who comes on who goes off in different situations I know that we've talked about how when you talk about a two safety set that you think about Jaylen Reed and KJ Winston being the two deep guys but if that's in if you're a nickel and you bring in cam Miller and put him in the slot do you really want to take off zachie Wheatley who is regarded as one of the best ball Hawks on this team um so how does all of this fit together who plays where and when what these snap counts look like I think that the secondary might be where it's the most interesting because this is where you have maybe the most talent and the most guys who could play but it's also a place on the field where you can play the most guys and you can rotate through um as opposed to like a a quarterback even a even a mic linebacker um so I think that's going to be really interesting to see and I think maybe the thing I'm most excited to see or just most interested in learning at West Virginia yeah we'll have a lot to learn about this group fortunately we're going to go from projecting a lot about Penn State to reporting and evaluating everything that we see for 60 Minutes of game action in just nine days but let's finish here it's been a marathon episode I hope that the listeners and viewers enjoy this one throughout the weekend maybe they taken in a couple different dos but hopefully we're doing a good job of really setting up this first game week for you after a really busy few weeks of preseason coverage I have a question for both of you and and we're gonna begin with Daniel on this one which player and we have about 90 of them listed on this depth card over Li 247.com which of these guys any position would you point to and say I think he ends up you know we get into November maybe late October GNA be in a much different spot uh in terms of that discussion we we talked about him for a little bit already but I think the arrow is really pointing up for Luke Reynolds I think that it it's tough to ignore um what we've seen and what we've heard a little bit and I think that you know also doing this exercise and framing it as where Penn State's freshmen usually start on the dep chart um and and where they start from the pecking order and everything they have to earn and how many people are in this room along with Luke Reynolds I think that he does have the you know potential to go from you know being you know sixth when he comes in or seventh or however many are in there you know to be in that third and fourth conversation uh by the time we get later on in the season Mark same question posed to you who's the guy that you're looking at I think I already kind of answered it I'd say darari Nelson again I don't think they move him unless they think they unless they they they see a spot for him so it's gonna be a learning process for him but I think he's going to have the luxury uh you know once you get past that West Virginia game you're going to have a couple weeks and then a buy that where where things are a buy mixed in there you know where you have time to kind of absorb things and I think he's a guy who you may see fil uh kind of fitting in to that linebacker rotation maybe on the back end of the season I'm gonna go defense too and I'm gonna go with a freshman uh Max Granville got to campus so late I mean like three days before preseason camp he had no kind of ramp up into hitting the practice field all of a sudden and sharing it with you know 22 year olds and and and you know all across the field this a guy who was supposed to be a high school senior right now remember he reclassified late um we compared him a lot to chop Robinson Tyler caluso and I when we were evaluating his pickup earlier this summer now that he's a Penn State player the guys who played alongside chop Robinson are doing the same thing Den I then of suton called him chop 2.0 on Tuesday night and it's just no matter who you're checking in with the twitchiness and the size has to figure itself out you know that's going to come with being on a college campus longer and longer but I think that he may give them something off the edge maybe in a way that maybe a Jamal Lions did last year where it's just enough of a flash consistently on the practice field where you find ways to get him involved maybe on on on a pass rushing situation in games that you're able to get those guys breathers when you're looking down your depth chart and Deon Barnes is trying to decide which defensive ends go in you know is there a chance for Granville Leap Frogs you know those freshman from last year Mason Robinson and Joseph AO because if that's the case then it's not really that far of a of a reach for Deion Barnes to say get in there Max and go to go handle your business so I think because of the the early positive feedback we've gotten on him and his ability to really attack the passing pocket just naturally did something that he really came to campus with um that's something that I don't that that's a trait that I think will be beneficial to Penn State if they call upon it even if he's 10 15 20 pounds lighter than what he's gonna ultimately settle into at a nitty line and I'm looking October November as him you know maybe being a guy that that that kind of fills some kind of 15 to 20 snap per game role um but it's a long way to go for him but that's kind of the fun nature of this it's not necessarily a dart throw when we're doing this it's I think they're educated picks but right now these are guys that we've got as you know fourth stringers on the depth chart that we think when this team's in the thick of big 10 play could matter a lot more for the nitty Lions guys it's been fun we appreciate it I think this is a good way to to wrap up it's our it's our third preseason camp together uh with with Daniel and and another successful one I think at lines 247.com and it'll be our third season doing this together and if you followed our coverage in season in years past you know that we go with the thre men look on a lot more frequent basis when we get into fall so it'll be exciting to have you both on board I think we could probably stay under an hour and a half in those episodes during the season but thanks for last words right Tyler could I give a shout out to everybody who gave us feedback on the depth chart I mean we put a lot of thought into this I mean a lot of thought maybe May maybe too much thought definitely too much thought yeah we do it knowing that people care about it right that that people are going to look at this and pick the thing apart and we want you to do that we want you to look at that and we want you to question us about why we we pick that or pick that pick this or pick that but we a lot of texts a lot of talking to sources a lot of watching a lot of listening a lot of those things goes into this this is no small thing that we don't take this lightly at all so we put a lot of thought into doing it and when we get the kind of feedback that we get whether it's somebody saying hey thanks for doing that or somebody saying hey why is this guy here or somebody saying No this guy should be there appreciate all of it that's why we do these things to get people talking and to get people into it you can review the entire depth chart over at lines 247.com and again we we'll have a new one for you come game week number two when Ken State's gonna be coming to Beaver Stadium and we'll react accordingly Mark Daniel it's always a pleasure thanks for hopping on board again thanks Tyler all right been a fun episode here in the Lions 247 podcast we'll be back with more next week we'll get into the nitty-gritty on what the Mountaineers are going to represent as the first opponent on the schedule we'll hear from a West Virginia Insider about how that preseason camp went and we'll eventually offer our predictions not just for this matchup but for the season for offensive and defensive MVPs and all sorts of conversations coming your way in the meantime we're back to work at lines 247.com VIP subscribers can jump on board right now annual membership 30% off access so take advantage of that we'll be on the practice field again early next week another look at the nitty Lions more conversations with James Franklin players and coaches all that content coming your way on the site and ultimately to this podcast as well for now stepping aside I'm Tyler donu thanks as always for listening and watching to the lines 247 podcast