Intro all right everybody hello and welcome LIVE edition of threea postgame edition of threea K State survives by beating to Lane so we're going to get to uh all your comments all of our takes we're going to embarrass some non-ball knowers uh who are losing their minds for whatever reason in over this offensive pass interference call here at the end of the game we're going to break it all down next thanks for listening to KC Sports Network proudly presented by Emprise Bank if you're thinking about starting a business or know someone who is check out Emprise bank's SBA Loans it's always good to know your options and they can be your partner impossible all right John CS Cole manck with you uh we hope to get DY for a little bit later on that's going to depend he is uh live on the scene after driving all the way to New Orleans which boy that I tell you what that is when you would need some Ben holiday bottled and Bon bourbon from our friends at holiday Distillery because I did that drive with my buddy cam shout out to cam a couple of years ago for the Sugar Bowl and that is a long drive uh you'll probably need both the 360 vodka and Ben holiday bottled in mon bourbon which again you can get from our friends at holiday Distillery uh thank you as always to them for supporting our pod um I might take a shot as I see that nor Northern Illinois is now leading at Notre Dame uh love to see that I've got two screens going right now watching Iowa State Iowa and Baylor Utah so you know you may get a little bit of reaction from me as we move along with that but man I don't know there's a lot to talk about that was that was a stressful game to watch um never really felt comfortable and and honestly I don't know the reason look the offense there was a lot to be frustrated with offensively even though Takeaways they did play better in the second half much like last week but Cole the reason I never felt comfortable in this game is because the defense was just getting torched by this Daren Mena kid who I he is good I I will give all the Kudos in the world to him man he made a mistake at the end but that that dude is good he also had a lot of high school wide open receivers running around there so there's a lot to be concerned about long term especially with tedo and McMillan coming in next week but I just that's the part that really blew me away about this game if you would have told me K State's offense was going to be a little bit clunky I would have said yeah that sounds about right I did not expect the defense to uh be gashed the way that it was at a lot of points in this game I think the offense did about what we expected in the grand scheme of things right the offense puts up 27 points you take away the touchdown obviously by the defense 27 points and 11 drives just under two and a half points per Drive I think in our prediction shows we had right around like a 31 for offense right for the final score for K stayed and so in the grand scheme of things the offense did some nice things especially in the second half now there were some pull your hair out moments in the first half which was very clunky obviously but the defense to me was the story of the game and just how incredibly frustrating it was I found myself John and you way in here during the game finding this to be arguably the most frustrated I've been with the Chris kinman coach defense in his entire time at Kansas State you know you could go back through the history obviously IA State last year and think about was say there's a game I can remember not that long ago sitting on this this very same couch that I watched against Iowa State but yes but but the thing was about that was it's a big 12 Foe and it's a Snow Game and this is Tain no disrespect to tan they've knocked off some Heavy Hitters obviously came to Manhattan One Beat USC they were right there with Old Miss last year they went to Norman in 2021 and they lost 40 to 35 so this is a really solid program and John sumerall is a hell of a coach but you're going up against a red shirt freshman quarterback and you just get diced up the way that you did when you're top 15 in the country and returning defensive production this year and we're talking about it like perhaps this is my fault I I have said repeatedly that I think this secondary is the best in the Big 12 this is a secondary John that ranked 14th in pass efficiency defense last year behind only Oklahoma out of all the teams in last year's Big 12 and currently in this year's Big 12 and they give up 342 yards passing on 29 pass attempts John they gave up 11.8 yards per pass if you go back to the beginning the beginning of 2021 season and on that is the the fourth most passing yards by a kstate defense in that time we're talking about about 40 games Okay Oklahoma State in 2021 had more passing yards Texas Tech in 2022 had more against Kate and Manhattan but that was because they dropped back and threw it 50 times in that game because they were losing much to the game and then Missouri last year in 2023 went just slightly over that total but if you look at yards per pass Missouri was at 9.9 yards per pass last season against K State this was 11.8 Texas Tech was 7.5 yards per pass in 2022 the only games from a pass defense standpoint that were really worse since 2021 Iowa State obviously last year at 19.2 yards per pass Alabama in the Sugar Bowl at 14.6 yards per pass Oklahoma in 2019 if you go back that far at 14.6 yards per pass a game that K State did indeed end up winning and then too late I mean just the fact that they gave up so many explosive plays we talked about this defense had to minimize giving up explosives last year K State ranked 126 in the country in defensive explosiveness out of 134 FBS teams and then in this game they give up nine plays of 20 or more yards and six of 30 or more yards that that cannot happen and it wasn't like them making tremendous plays these were guys running free wide open that's what I was going to say like I mean I again Mena deserves a lot of credit because there were a couple plays there was like one in particular he threw Jacob Paris had some great coverage he threw a really nice ball like on the outside shoulder on kind of an in cut to the middle of the field but a lot of it yeah he was just taking what was there from the defense he just seemed he seemed really poised and Savvy and just found a way to buy time a lot at a lot of points now there were also K State's defense also they have five or six sacks at least five uh so they found a way to get some pressure eventually but he was really cool calm and collected and just took what was there and it was like I don't Dy made the observation I I know Keenan Garber was still in there playing some in the second half but Lewis rck like pointed out in the first half like hey it looked like Keenan Garber twice just like passed off the coverage and he kind of went downfield and they just left somebody whether it was Mario Williams or whoever wide open over the middle and then they started the second half and Keenan Garber wasn't in as much and that's when the defense went through a stretch where they played a lot better the third quarter obviously was was much much better so I I don't know if that and but that's that's not what you would expect I know Keenan Garber hasn't play defensive back his entire career here at Kate but he's he's been in the program for an awful long time I mean that's that's a senior you wouldn't expect him to be making those sorts of mistakes so I don't that was pretty alarming it was pretty jarring well what it looked like John was like that they thought they were in a Zone and I don't know what the defensive calls were but it looked like Garber was looking to pass it off and thinking like there was one play where like nindre stiger at safety like it looked like Garber thought stiger was going to pick him up coming across the field and just let him go and then garber's covering nobody uh that happened multiple times and you know yes Keenan Garber is a young player when it comes to being in the secondary but they've talked about this guy as an all Big 12 corner and so I guess I could understand a couple of the mistakes happening with him maybe once happening multiple times was hard to Fathom and then we've talked about this safety tandem or this Trio of safeties and the depth there being among the best in the Big 12 and you know what's what's Jordan Riley doing on the uh the touchdown to to boming the tight end I mean Jord that that's a good defensive executed play call and the scheme Jordan Riley is there he needs to go make a play on the ball at worst that ball can't be caught at best that ball needs to be picked off and instead it's a touchdown for tane to go ahead there were just too many coverage bus out there and uh you know John I I was charting this Tain had 12 drives in the game and they scored 34 points it's 2.83 points per Drive which is a number you don't want to give up to a red shirt freshman quarterback albe it he was way better than I expected but nine of their 12 drives curry seon made this observation to us in the first half their their first six drives all got inside the K State 40 yard line and then in the second half three of the six did so nine of their 12 drives 75% got inside the K State 40 yard line in this game I'll read it off to you to where they got ultimately in the drives they got the K State's 34 they're 40 then touchdown touchdown they got to the kstate eight yard line got sacked had to settle for eight field goal from 40 yards so they fil back to the 22 yard line they got to K State's 20 lost a few yards kicked a 40 yard from the 23 then to start the second half they punt from their own 22 punt from their own 26 then they get a touchdown they get to the K State 25 then obviously they have the the strip sack and the K State gets a turnover and a touchdown they get to the two-lane 38 have to punt and then they get to the K State to the only saving grace for this defense was they got two turnovers that when they got down there so I mean credit for making the play but this left a lot to be desired from a defensive effort standpoint and and you got Arizona on the horizon obviously and tedo McMillan and what he can bring to the table they've got a lot of things to correct you love that you did it in a win ultimately that's what matters but this team has a lot of growing up to do on the defensive side of the football which I didn't think we'd have to say given this was supposed to be a team with top 15 returning production and be the veteran group out there yeah and that I mean that's the alarming part because clearly the offense has a lot of growing up to do too uh in terms of just consistency you know I mean look we we'll talk about the offense plenty and like I think a lot of this with Avery Johnson is just simply that the expectations as we you know probably knew deep down we built up a little bit too high and he's just a bit inconsistent right now play calling a bit inconsistent they were talking about kimman said at halftime something about like receivers not getting lined up obviously the offensive line had moment so but we expected at that with the offense the defense is supposed to be the thing that's kind of the glue holding everything together and I don't know right now it's it's um yeah it's a little it's a little tricky um I agree Cole was on fire charting all that during the game and still finding a way to uh to text us uh in in the group chat that we had going with with a couple of our friends so that's Cole Cole is an awesome multitasker as far as that goes I will say that Jordan Riley play in the end zone that was another one of those look I I promise I won't spend the entire broadcast I hate being the guy that's like oh the announcers suck and I think Bob wasu and and Lewis Riddick are really good but that was one of those moments this is one where I'll admit it's a little bit of partisan in me the touchdown pass that Mena threw that you were talking about where it looked like Jordan Riley just hung up there forever and Jordan Riley could have intercepted it or at least batted it down I was like man this is taking me back to like early Julius Brent's ball skills days when it just felt like there were so many passes that would be thrown up there and you're like dude you're there like you're in position like just make the play um obviously things turned out well for Julius Bren who turned into a second round draft pick but yeah that was one where they were on the broadcast really praising like man what a great throw and I was kind of like I don't know that that was a great decision or great throw he just got lucky that Jordan Riley was off he he didn't get a good jump he just didn't seem to time it well or anything and was a little bit flat-footed and whatever there there are a million of those plays I guess we do need to also Co give credit where it's due to the defense as well because like I said they did start to get some pressure Joe CL started to really dial things up they got five sacks they had the massive strip sack that turned into a touchdown uh for for Jack fabis running the other way and it was it was Austin Roma who got the strip and he's somebody that you know we've been again young guy who's probably having to play more than he should at this point but we've been critical of him at times he made a hell of a play and that was a play that kstate absolutely had to win the game I mean I I definitely don't think that they're winning the game without that play yeah no I think that was the the gamechanging play I mean Tain is about to take the lead they're inside Kate's 25 yard line and about to respond right back once again with the kstate defense not able to get a stop and then Roma makes that strip you know and initially I was just excited because it looked like they were going to get him for like a 15 yard sack and potentially chase him into like a third and 28 third and 30 and maybe knock him out of field goal range and then for the ball to be stripped and then the scoop and score by Jack fabas obviously a a huge play in the game and then you get the defensive stop and force a punt and you get the ball back with five minutes and I'm thinking okay they got this I was very disappointed with the play calls and the series of that three and out it's way too conser way too conservative by Connor Riley and this coaching staff Avery Johnson was playing very good football in the second half okay consider this statline John at halftime Avery Johnson was eight of 15 passing for 62 yards an average of 4.1 yards per pass he finished the second half in the second half alone the final two quarters of the game he goes seven of eight passing 119 yards 14.9 yards per pass attempt was delivering by dimes now he he made a couple mistakes early in that game obviously he got away with one that should have been picked off in the first half Jaden Jackson was open uh he had the pass to Sterling lock it downfield that would have been a huge play that he overthrew um you know you need to you need to hit on that but in the second half Avery Johnson made some huge plays this Cas they offense made some big plays they scored 17 points on three drives and a three Drive stretch which was huge in the game and the offense had been rolling and for you to just line up and so predictably run the ball and yes I know you have a one of the best running backs in the country and DJ giddens and you ran for 215 yards as a team in this game and you know six seven yards per carry but Tain was selling out on the Run man you gotta give the kid a chance to at least do something get him on the edge let Avery have the Run pass option at the very least on one of those plays that was disappointing yeah no I'm I'm I'm with you man it drove me insane it felt somebody somebody said this is like very Andy reides because I feel like that is where you're like Andy Reid sometimes will do that just these really conservative series when you feel like hey you really need something a little bit more here you need some and and even okay yes I would have been in favor of hey get Dylan and DJ on the field at the same time there put a little bit more stress if they know you're going to run at least stress them out a little bit by having both of those guys there you can maybe make it some kind of option play where you know Avery can get on the run you know can even be like an RPO where you're telling him hey only throw the thing if it's wide open but okay beyond all that you get to Third and long Avery was making plays the entire day when he just got to get on the run a little bit wait and see how things sus out and then make a nice throw on the run like that's when he was at his best and so it killed me that they just dropped off a little screen to to DJ G on that third down play like your best offense for a lot of the day was letting Avery create a little bit so just send the receivers down field and if it's not there right away just let him run around a little bit um and and make a play that that killed me that killed me on that I could live with it if your defense is playing like we expect the K State Defense to play but the fact that they were getting torched all game I the offense needed to go kill that clock and get a couple of first downs and um you know yeah I I get that like even when defenses sell out against the Run K State's running attack they believe in themselves and they think they can still get first downs KU last year and and La they were selling out to stop the run and K State killed the Glock by running the football with DJ giddens and you know of course you did have an All-American and Cooper BB and some really good offensive linemen um you know so look I at the end of the day you win the game but I I think if I'm looking at this from an offensive standpoint John and I know we probably got to go to break in a minute but I think there were some encouraging things especially in the way they finished that game and some big plays yes put a put a pin in that let's talk about that when we come back because I I I kind of want that to be our yeah our top story here because I think it's really easy to get buried in all this there's a lot of discussion about Avery and in the first half you know people melting down and going into you know Twitter fan mode which like I understand but twice now he has been able to regroup when it seems like things were going very poorly and play a really really nice second half but hey look I'm wearing my home field apparel we're always wearing our home field apparel it's game day you should be wearing yours uh game day as we sit and record this here anyway but got you got like a week I'm sure they could ship you some HomeField apparel gear from HomeField apparel.com for the game on Friday when case day takes on Arizona so go get it uh 50 plus kstate designs 100 plus other schools go to HomeField apparel.com use promo code 3on 24 and get 15% off your first order that's promo code 324 HomeField apparel.com for 15% off your first order and we are back in just a moment we appreciate you supporting KC Sports Network by listening to our podcast you have helped us become the highest ranked Chiefs podcast Network in 2022 and 2023 and don't forget about our daily substack newsletter the best written analysis you can find on the Chiefs straight to your inbox every day kcsn dos substack docomo a lot for you here including that promo code to get you 15% off but we also can give you a chance to win 500 bucks uh go to bluewire pods.com survey and complete the bluewire audience survey about you and your podcast listening habits for a chance to win a $500 gift card the survey will help create a better advertising experience for audiences and in turn help this show that's bluewire pods.com survey where all you have to do is answer some simple questions for a chance to win $500 make sure to read the full terms and disclaimer plus complete the survey for a chance to win it is bluewire pods.com survey the link is also in the show notes of this episode yeah so you know I was I was seeing a lot of the Twitter reaction and look you're gonna get a lot of opposing fans are kind of they're they're watching Avery Johnson and how he plays because there has been a lot of hype for him right I just not that we should have to explain everything like in Twitter terms but so many of us live in that world K State fans have been very excited about this National media has been very excited about Avery John so you're going to get people hating when they watch and they don't see a total Superstar you know I I Avery Johnson, Dylan Edwards and more got my guy Carrington Carrington Cott texted me and was like K State fans think Avery Johnson's Dylan rayola and he's just not now that text came in the first half I would like to point out that Dylan Rola was the consensus number one quarterback in the country and Avery Johnson was what number 10 um so there there is a bit of a difference there but In fairness like people were picking him to win the Heisman this year and even though I don't think any of us were we still have hyped the guy up a lot so with great hype and attention comes a responsibility to perform or people are going to you know start to come after you so you're just going to get a lot of that I think the reality here is he's a guy that can do some phenomenal things he's very talented you see it I mean the legs he hasn't really shown it as much with his legs so far but I mean that touchdown that he threw in the first half in the back of the The End Zone was obscenely good like there's so much upside there it's crazy but yes right now he does miss the Jaden Jackson throw which should have been a huge play he probably has a touchdown to Sterling Lockett that he just air mailed he's doing that a lot on balls down the field but In fairness twice after really rough first halfes where it feels like things are not going well at all he's been able to rally and make huge plays I mean I know we were all nervous watching it happen but the fourth and short wheel route to DJ giddens for a touchdown is a great play and a ballsy play I might add when when you're struggling and the offense isn't going well and you've got fourth and short and you really need this and you sit there and wait a long time on that fourth down play when your offensive line is not been playing very well for DJ giddens to clear the linebacker and get open and you stick it right on the money on fourth down that takes balls dude and he did that and he hits Keegan Johnson down the field right that was a beautiful ball where Johnson had a a little bit of Separation on him so he recovered and did a really nice job in the second half you're just going to have to be a little patient and I will if we have to accept responsibility and say that we are a part of the Avery Johnson hype machine that maybe hyped him up a little bit too much at this stage in his career then that is fine but you can still see the talent there you can still see a lot of The Moxy there and Poise there all the traits are there for him to be a really great quarterback it's just you're G to have to have some patience I mean think back to basic any great kstate quarterback in their career when if they were playing when they were a sophomore I mean Colin Klein as a sophomore got on the field for really like one game with significant action that we remember which was the Texas game like he was not a Bonafide star at that point uh El Roberson as a sophomore was a disaster and was like splitting time with Mark Dunn and it was really frustrating the team went six and six uh will Howard you know as people were getting back into the will Howard debate which is just lovely today and I'm like do we remember what will Howard looked like as a true sophomore you know I mean I know the expectations are high for him and we think Avery is going to be greater than will Howard and that's why K State made the decision they did but just a little bit of patience little bit of patience and we still see some really good things out of him I mean that's the thing you see the glimpses like you see what he can be and you just highlighted them all the throw to will Swanson throwing across his body in the only spot you can really put the ball nice play by Will Swanson by the way who's not was hell hell of a catch yes you know will will not being known necessarily for his pass catching more of your blocking tied end for him to make that play he had a couple nice catches today so credit to will Swanson but him making that play you know the throw to DJ was an absolute dime and DJ obviously he leads case St with four catches for 63 yards just shows again how terrific of a player he is 114 yards on the ground on 19 carries almost to 2,000 yards in his career rushing the football the throw to Keegan really nice ball 33 yard pass you know it was great to see Keegan you know get a play downfield something that you wanted to see there when you look at explosiveness in this game you know just look at the second half they have a 27 yard by Dylan Ed 27 Rush by Dylan Edwards a 10 yard run by him so 10 yard and plus runs on the ground count as explosives a 45 yard touchdown pass to DJ a 33 yard pass to Keegan a Dylan Edwards 13 yard touchdown run a Dylan a DJ 10 yard run I mean they had some explosives in this game on the offensive end of the field and ultimately Avery finishes 15 of 23 passing 181 yards and almost eight yards a pass two touchdowns one interception and yes he did get away with one inter or no interceptions I'm sorry he did get away with an interception in the game but you see those highlight moments and let's keep in mind that they're going up against a John Summerall coach defense who's known as one of the brightest defensive Minds in college football and Troy the last two years with sumerall as the head coach ranked 10th in the country and points per Drive allowed both years were top 10 and a lot of the different P defensive categories yards per carry too Troy's defense was terrific top 10 last year number nine in the country allowing 3.2 yards per pass they were top 20 and pass efficiency D yards per pass allowed top 15 I mean the Troy Defense has been terrific under Summerall he's a defensive mind so for Avery Johnson to put together that stretch in the second half that he did and the offense to make adjustments and it's not only that John it's that I mean they had their backs against the wall a couple times like you're down 20 to 10 and there's a lot of pressure on this offense especially if you go three and out on the first drive to start the second half and then you drive down the field you get a field goal and then you get the big plays and you get the touchdown and then what happens but two lane goes right back down the field and scores a touchdown and you're like oh can the offense answer again down 2720 you're asking a lot and what do they do they go right back down the field and quickly and they answer right back and you got the big fourth down pass to DJ gens like some clutch moments that we saw from Avery Johnson that a Young quarterback might be intimidated in the moment so uh yes yes bcat you are exactly right I don't understand what they're doing with Dylan Edwards right now and maybe that's another talking point John but he had he had 10 snaps on the offensive end in the opener and he had to be under 10 in this game he had four carries for 54 yards 13 and a half yards per carry one catch for negative2 yards I think he was on the field for under 10 snaps they have to get Dylan Edwards on the field more and in special teams I I don't get it well that that's the like when you're talking about like getting him in a rhythm I mean I it blows my mind they're using him on punt returns they're not using him on kick returns I mean in today's day and age like you just punt returns are are barely a thing anymore ever since Les Miles stepped away from Kansas and stopped punting the ball to Philip Brooks nobody has been returning punts let him return kicks I don't and I you guys know from last year I mean I complained about Chile Davis and the special teams the entire year Nate caner like I I want to believe and and Chris Tennant has been awesome shout out to Chris Tennant he was nails again today that's been great but Jay what are I love you Jace Brown play receiver hurdle guys at but why is Jace Brown returning kicks instead of Dylan Edwards he is now fumbled kickoff return one of the year and then today he has like a 10 yard return where he's not reading the blocks at all and then you wind up with a penalty on the play too and there was another fair catch on a punt return where they're getting a holding penalty in a on a day when like the field position was killing them for a while in the first half what the hell is going on there and why why not let Dylan Edwards be the one he is by far your most dangerous returner and if you want to if you're not going to use him as much on offense and you want him to get going and get in the flow of the game that just seems like such an easy like layup gimme to have Dylan Edwards be doing that and Jace Brown has just not displayed having it when it comes to that he's really fast I mean he's he's pretty fast he's a great route Runner I think that's how he creates a lot of his Separation on the offensive side of the ball but like Dylan Edwards is like legitimately one of the fastest players in college football I like use him that way I don't it is it is beyond me and you're right today when he came in offensively suddenly things started clicking man that he was he was he provided juice like each of the first two games when the offense is like needed a spark they've needed something Dylan Edwards has given him that twice and yeah they just don't seem to want to use him I'm sure Co they would probably tell us that some of it is he got in late right he wasn't there for Spring ball he's still getting acclimated and they don't want to put too much on his plate I'm I'm sure that would be the answer but like I don't know at some point I feel like you got to just say hey whatever limited package it is that we're using with him we need to we need to use it twice as much as we using it in the game right now you know whatever that is going to be because he's he's been that good when he gets in there well that's the thing I don't like this coaching staff talked all offseason about getting the best Playmakers on the field did they not it wasn't so much like and they talked about it at wide receiver like we got to rotate more wide receivers we got to get the talent on the field even if they don't understand 100% of the Playbook they got to be on the field at least for a certain package and Dylan Edwards is one of your most talented players so you have to get him on the field more than 10 snaps like it and there were a couple plays today John where I'm like oh there's nothing there and Dylan Edwards popped through and these were on plays running up the middle he was running well between the tackles today yeah yeah he ducked down like he hid kind of slithered behind the offensive line and and made a couple really nice plays you know they haven't really gotten him going at all in the passing game like I fully expected them to start getting him motioned out and getting him on some Crossing routes and maybe that's to come but in a game like today when your backs are against the wall and it looked like you might lose like you thought we would have seen them pull out some different stops like I guess I just expected to see him on the field more with DJ giddens at the same time simultaneously in Split back sets Etc and then you had the stretch where yes we know they really like Joe Jackson and I'm not going to complain about Joe Jackson getting a touchdown that got taken away that was a really nice play by by Joe Jackson out of the backfield and I think he's a talented kid but then you got Joe Jackson coming on the field and he's in it running back you're like what's going on here like are they going to get Dylan more involved and that was in the first half uh I don't know I I think they got to figure out figure out some things there make some adjustments hopefully we see it soon um but that that was a disappointing part to me that they didn't get him on the field more today very very Ticky Tac illegal man downfield call too on that Joe touch I hate I hate that call you know it maybe it's because we used to we got used to cnk State as you pointed out in our group text like five six yards downfield in the past but Carver wilis was maybe two yards down downfield John and not only that he kind of got like pushed like he kind of got off balance and like The end of the game and discussing officiating kind of shoved downfield and it has no impact on the play the only reason the officials saw it is because he stands out like a sore thumb out there in the middle there where nobody was around him has no impact on the play and it's very Ticky tack I hated it um so that was that was disappointing it was a bad day for special teams I mean Chris Tennant makes the 40 plus yard that was great I don't think anyone can get on him for missing the 50 plus yard that came up shorter I mean I I was frustrated they didn't try to run another play I all were with a timeout can we talk about that because there there were a couple thing I mean climate also wasn't using timeouts there at the as Tain was trying to score I mean that that's another thing you could say more modern thinking coach would potentially be using timeouts there to try and save yourself some time to get Avery the ball back um I digress but yes I thought with six seconds left I know the clock did take an extra second to go down to six six seconds left and you have a timeout like you could literally just hand the ball off to DJ giddens and say fall down after five yards if you get that I mean I guess their concern is I you know running play it could get strung out and DJ's not to it I'm sure that's what their concern is but it felt like dude just do something quick there you can literally call the timeout an extra five to seven yards would have helped out a lot as we saw in the field goal but you know that's never that's never really been kayman's strong suit as a coach is any is anything related to to game manager like that so kind of is what it is yeah yeah and uh you know the special teams they had a what a 30 something yard punt that set to Lane up inside the k a 40 yard line wasn't a good kick you had a couple penalties you already outlined it on a kick return and then a punt return where the the punt return one was particularly frustrating because you fair catch the ball and K State kind of went for the punt block so they weren't even really setting up to uh to run you know a punt return and nobody really got a hand on anybody anyways like T Lang got right down the field so you get hold there just a frustrating day for special teams and then the one good play that you think you get they punch the ball out and look that was that was very I thought it was a fumble I I still think it was I can live with them letting it stand what I can't live with to your point earlier is Bob Wan and Lewis Riddick just completely dismissing it like oh yeah move on why are we even looking at this clearly down no no he definitely wasn't pretty sure the ball was punched out before the forearm was down you guys need to you know watch the play that that's one of where I think if you obviously it's impossible because there are too many bodies around but I think if you didn't have bodies around and you could just watch like a clear head-on view I think it would show that the ball was punched out before his forearm was down but there's so much traffic there that I understand why they can't make that call and I also understand why they wouldn't see it live um so it was not yeah I was not like losing my mind over that but yeah the dismissal that they had with that and then like man well where this is taking so long I guess they're just really making sure here it's like hey guys maybe go back and then they did go back and look at it again and they still they were maybe not quite as dismissive but still pretty damn dismissive and then the thing I mean this is going to draw a lot of reaction from people at the end of the game and this just kills me because Lewis rck he is a guy that a lot of people really respect his football Acumen and I understand why I think he's pretty good I really like Bob Wasing I mean look as a guy who poured my heart and soul into play-by-play for a really long time I like to pay attention a lot to that stuff I think wuan is very good but the offensive pass interference thing at the end of the game I mean there was Zero attempts to run a route there at all and people are like well you know he kind of they just got locked up Yeah by Design like that's the play it's a pick play that's what you're trying to do every time you see someone run a pick play and the guy gets Tangled Up with the defensive back like that it is getting called like I don't I would have been surprised if they raised really any questions about it and instead they completely just I mean Lewis rck is just out here like oh man I mean that's just awful like that's terrible there's no way like what the hell are you guys talking about there's no attempt to run route he runs into him and just kind of sticks out his forearm to keep blocking uh was it Jacob Parish to keep blocking Parish from getting through there there was no attempt to run a route on the pick plate you got to attempt to run a route and the idea is that you kind of clip them a little bit like they did that on the the play in the corner to Jordan Riley was kind of like that and they did it successfully where it was like actually just like running a route and you sort of get in the way you can't just run in to the [ __ ] defensive back like I don't understand I truly don't understand what was going on there with Bob wasu and and Lewis and it's it's frustrating because then they empower the Twitter Warriors who are all going to come in and you know what a bail out terrible call and you know you got Stuart Mandel out there with multiple tweets about how it's the worst call that he's ever seen to to in the game and like you know come on man I don't know if I were a tane fan I'd probably be a little more upset by a a true 5050 call on the next play not going their way that's not one I'm going to say is definitively pi on case state but I think that's a 50-50 call that could go either way for sure but the offensive pass interference was like textbook that is textbook when the Big 12 officiating head of officiating comes and talks to the media at Big 12 media days that's something they would put on the tape to be like hey we're looking out for pick plays here this is what happens so I don't they can stick that you know where because that was absolutely offensive pass interference yeah yeah and I mean you're right what what happened was a guy like rck who's very well respected and I I respect L rck but I didn't think he had a good call today and him being so dismissive of that call and critical of it you've got people that don't really like Stuart Mandel who really don't understand football like what they're seeing that say oh that LS Ric said that like I must I gotta hop on that too that's an awful call I mean somebody else in our you know chat in here submitted a comment earlier John I mean they got T Lang got away with a pick play on that touchdown catch to Balman the tight end on the play that Jordan Riley should uh you know made a play on and there was a pick play there said and they got away with it and I mean like you and I talked off air if I'm too like yes the play worked for a touchdown but they got a penalty like if I'm a two-lane fan I'm like why aren't we running the ball there at the one and a half yard line with 30 seconds and multiple timeouts like why would you put why would you put yourself in a situation to risk a pick play there from a yard and a half out with four downs and plenty of time to get that uh that's that's the thing I'd be frustrated with and so uh you know I I get like I would understand why two lane fans are upset but at the end of the day it's the right call um so yeah I don't think uh I don't think I'm critical of that of that one obviously when in our favor so well I mean that's yes I I we were talking about that before we hopped on here I was just like as a K State fan I'm sitting there thinking all right well they're they're obviously going to score this I'm guessing they're probably going to go for two so you basically have back-to-back plays here that are going to be from about the same spot and I'm thinking Tang could score this any number of ways I mean I mean I had zero very similar honestly to the ending of the Chiefs game the other night where you're like I mean the defense seems gassed this feels like in no way are they going to be able to stop this year like I would not have felt confident about the chief stopping a two-point conversion so do anything but the play that is it's very easy for even if the receiver is not totally trying to do that it's very easy to kind of stumble into something and get an offensive pass interference call there so yeah like put some of that on sommerall for running that play right there they could have done anything to score on the K State Defense from like a yard and a half there was like 27 seconds left they had timeouts right I mean like you literally have everything at your disposal and you try and run a pick play and oh by the way if that if they don't call it it's not a touchdown it's GNA go back to like the six inch line he was not in the end zone I don't think so you know whatever they're they're probably scoring the next play again I don't have confidence the case State stopping them but that whole thing was just ridiculous I don't am I able to share my screen does it allow me to do that let me see here real quick well and while you're trying to do that John I mean not only that but Makai Hughes you got a running back that's ran for nearly 1400 yards last year and he had 128 yards on 21 carries today average 6.1 yards per carry against the Kate defense so um yeah I mean I would probably just have given the ball to Miki Hughes you know one thing while you're still working on that I would just say that are you are you guys seeing it are you seeing my screen I'm not I think Nick Nick might have to uh oh okay okay share so here you go so I mean you can just watch it over and over again watch the receiver watch number one here I mean this what tell me where there's an attempt to run a route this is where we need a telestrator for you too John and he just sticks out his arm and drives Jacob Parish back into the end zone like I don't that's getting called 10 times out of 10 I I don't I don't understand controversy over that do not yeah and it's not like the passes behind the line of scrimmage right so you can't make the yard it's downfield so it's OPI um yeah yeah anyways Kate look there's no doubt like Kate it was the right call Kay got a break I mean they were gonna probably let him score and they got but they got let's be clear they got a break from John Sall who yeah generally coached a very good game but he he gave K State one by running that inexplicably instead of something that would have been much more high percentage and and in college it's a 15 yard penalty and in the NFL it's only 10 when it's on the offense so it makes it even harder and then you know you get in the situation where uh VJ Payne makes an interception to end the game and it was really you know I I was sitting there it took seven quarters for K State to force a turnover on the season a team Kate's been top 15 in the country in turnovers forc each of the last two years and they've been tops in the Big 12 two straight years and turnover margin and it took them seven quarters to get there but lo and behold they forced two turnover s that ultimately decide the game um and made some plays Austin Roma finished with two sacks I just pulled up the final box score two sacks two tfls eight tackles Jordan Riley co-led the team with Roma with eight tackles VJ Payne had a tackle for loss I was shocked by this John K State had 11 tackles for loss just like they did in the opener now they had the five sacks I'll be honest with you I didn't feel like K State was getting a good pass rush and maybe it was because like they were having to Blitz a ton and it just didn't feel like they were getting home A lot of times and that's a two-lane offensive line that has 143 combined starts between them and ranked you know 10th most in the country in terms of combined starts and all the college football I thought they played a nice game up front I didn't feel like Kate was getting in the back field all that much but maybe that was just with the organic pass rush of like the three down four down look they weren't getting there they weren't getting home much of the game I was surprised that they ended up with 11 tfls and I will say Tain doesn't end up with a single sack on end on defense Avery wasn't sacked there were a couple times that were close obviously he's tough to sack with his mobility and Tain only has three tackles for loss in the game so that's a that's a good thing as well yeah it I'm with you it didn't feel like the pass rush was very consistent but it it did feel like they hit that stretch in the second half where you know kind of up until the last drive or maybe last two drives like they they started to get home more they were definitely getting more pressure and a lot of that was just because I mean clander was bringing a lot of heat I mean he was bring a lot of heat and that that obviously uh really really paid off um I'll say I'll say one more thing here real quick I was going to tack this onto the end of the discussion about uh the OPI and all that at the end with the the broadcast crew because again like I I've try to I know people oh you know you're the K State fans of course you're G to say it was offensive pass interference and all that look like I am not I I saw people oh they you know was shoing and and rck really wanted really wanted T Lane to win so obvious like guys no that's that's that's not it did you notice how you know Avery Johnson played a pretty poor first half and they were still just like trying to will Avery Johnson back into the game I mean they were they were trying to will him back into the game and giving him a lot of Grace and you know why they're doing that it's because they want the broadcast to be as compelling as possible because they want as compelling a game as possible so they don't want to see a game end on a penalty in essence like they want as much drama at the end of the game as possible they're rooting for the best broadcast so let's not go crazy over the line and be like oh you know they just wanted to Lane to win now that that's where you're being Homer guy but they definitely want the most compelling dramatic possible game because they want viewers on the game and let me tell you this just as a play-by-play guy like it sucks when you get a dud of a game like you want people watching what you're doing and you want to get good tape out of it you know to use I mean I guess like was sho's at a point where it probably doesn't really matter what tape is but you want the most compelling game like that's the motivation for a broadcaster so anyway all right we've got to get to uh our friends at Al Linko who bring you uh the top story line on the show if you have any Home Improvement needs this is who to call Al Linko locally based company out of KC owned by awesome K Staters who support us here on the Pod I want to nail down on this a little bit Cole because I would say you know it's probably been like 6040 negative Maybe here coming out of it with a win they did find a way to get a win and I mean this definitely felt like a loss for much of the day and there was a ton going wrong and Chris kimman said at the end of the game when he did his his sideline interview this was a win that or this was a game that our culture won you know he said our culture won this game so how much how much stock do you put into that and how I guess happy should we be coming out of this game for the mere fact that they found a way to pull it out when even the big championship team a couple of years ago facing a really good two-lane team but that game was in Manhattan they couldn't they couldn't do that they didn't have the second gear Adrien Martinez did not have the second half that Avery Johnson did today when they ran into that a couple of years ago they they had a dud and they found a way to win yeah I think that's the encouraging thing John we talked about the Duds before right and this probably felt like that throughout the game and as frustrating as it was this time they found a way to come out on top and make the plays that you had to make when the offense had its back against the wall they came out and made some plays Avery Johnson delivered some strikes they had some explosives in the running game when the defense had its backs against the wall they force a couple turnovers down the stretch that that changeed the tener of that game and so you're encouraged by that and look this is a this was a tricky spot like K State was ended up closing around eight and a half ninepoint favorites they win the game by seven it's a road game I know it's not that daunting of an atmosphere but you have to keep this in mind over the last few years that two-lane football program and it's a different coach but it's a coach and John sumerall that went 23 and four each of the last two years at Troy and won back-to-back Sun Bel titles the 41-year-old is a hell of a coach right and so he comes in and he puts his mark on this program in a winning culture Willie Fritz is gone but that two-lane program went to Norman Oklahoma in 2021 lost 40 to 35 in the opener they lost by five points right they come to Manhattan and they win in 2022 they beat USC in the cotton bow last year they have Old Miss on the ropes up seven at halftime into Lane and they were within three with like six minutes left in the game and if it wasn't for the fact that they were playing with their backup quarterback Kai Horton who is now their number three starting number three quarterback on their depth chart uh on the current two-lane roster they were within an eyelash of winning that game don't look at the final stats in the box score of a 3720 finish in that game with six minutes left it was a three-point game and two lane had the football the G the score got out of hand late out of desperation That Old Miss team won 11 games so at the end of the day you avoid the dud in terms of the loss you keep the momentum going you keep the energy level high going into a huge matchup on Friday night in Manhattan against Arizona how much would it have sucked to come into that game with the loss now you've got two teams assuming Arizona wins today on Saturday coming in ranked in the top 20 on National Fox a ton of excitement a ton of hype and I think you'll learn some you'd rather learn and from mistakes and a win then a loss Frank Martin always said that you don't have to lose to learn things you can win and uh figure out a way to learn and capitalize on that and I guarantee you that Chris kman and Joe clander are going to be in the film room working the hell out of that secondary and correcting the mistakes that occurred on Saturday because that this was just not a K State Defense in secondary that we're used to seeing I mentioned it already last year Kate allowed a 55% completion percentage defensively it was the best in 15 plus years via Kate's secondary they were top 10 in the country in completion percentage allowed last year they were top 15 in yards per pass allowed last season they were 14th in pass efficiency defense and most of that secondary is back so I expect them to figure it out and make some corrections and I think you can be encouraged that Avery Johnson and that offense showed some things in the second half and they will continue to get better with more and more repetition and now you're two and 0 and you move onward and you figure out a way to get better I'm watching the halftime report right now on CBS of uh Iowa State Iowa and they just they just showed a nice highlight of the case day two lane game um I'm I'm impressed zero mention of the uh the pass interference play there we got the we got the VJ Payne interception and we got the the Jack fabra scoop and score so you know too bad tough one and C can I also say John like I I I underestimated this two line roster I think a lot of us did like yes case they did not play well and they left some easy throws but I went off the recruiting profile of Daren Mena and being red shirt freshman quarterback this is a guy that was the number 2013 ranked player in the on three industry consensus rankings in the 2023 recruiting class and the 113th ranked quarterback but then the more that you read about him like there's a reason he all of a sudden just overtook Tai Thompson the former five-star quarterback from Oregon that transferred in and got the job late and then the articles I started reading this past week like they just Rave about his Poise and his composure and how he doesn't play like a red shirt freshman quarterback and his leadership intangibles and I got to tell you that kid can thow the heck out of the football LSU is probably on line one tampering with him right now and the portal they're going to be looking to pull him out of to Lane but what I will say just to get to that point like this is a two-lane team that looks like every bit the team that could win nine 10 games this year and you know contend for a playoff spot as that group of five team I mean they they got some Talent man Mario Williams you know yeah people forget Mario Williams is a former five-star wide receiver that put up 600 yards receiving at USC one year and he was at okahoma before that uh you know Dante Fleming wasn't a guy that I expected huge things from today and he had a big game for them uh they brought in some other you know five star four star type pedigree recruits at running back they got an experienced offensive line and they got a running back that had 1400 yards almost last season so they have some talent and they brought in a you know a bright defensive mind as their head coach and they got some defensive pieces to work with so at the end of the day this this could you know we look back in 2022 right we're like well T Lane wasn't really that bad of a loss they won the Cotton Bowl and won 11 12 games right like we could look back on this and be like that's a hell of a win win it on the road at two lane at a 10- win team maybe I mean they they could Challenge and win the American for sure yeah um they didn't even have is it shabaz Preston Preston the kid from Alabama Chaz Prest banged up yeah yeah he didn't even play today that's an Al former Alabama receiver that K State went after in the portal that that chose to go to Tain he didn't even play so yeah I mean they they've got some dudes I if I had a BET right now I would imagine that Mena I I guess maybe this a Looking ahead and closing thoughts I shouldn't take this shot at T Lane but I I have my doubts that Mena is going to finish his career with tane based on what we saw today um we'll see how that plays out for the rest of him I don't I mean Arizona I believe plays Northern Arizona today so I imagine that they are going to win we're going to get the the top 20 Showdown on Friday which will will be awesome was already seeing promos running for that today which is great and um I mean by the way that's what it's on Fox right so Fox big fox definitely got what they wanted with with Kate winning the game my concern obviously is tedar RO and McMillan going for 400 yards receiving because I mean he put up 300 plus and four touchdowns in their opener so um that's going to be a concern that's going to be a concern their offense is really good now their defense was not very good they gave up 39 points and a ton of yards to New Mexico so uh um yeah could be in for a shootout could be in for a shootout on Friday and and to be honest with you I don't love K stage chances at all in a shootout yeah the offense will certainly need to continue to improve and play better I I prefer to avoid a shootout I think we thought the defense was going to be the key to winning some of these first few games of the season and today that's the one discouraging thing but you got to hope that the coaching staff will keep it get it corrected because there's there's Talent on this defense and you know there's some there is some inexperience on the defensive line rot a lot of these guys at DN and Austin Roma still young at middle linebacker but yeah you got to hope that they grow up fast something tells me like you know in basketball where you just like face guard the other team's best player like I don't want to see any like passing off taroa McMillan like today where you're like oh you hope the other guy communicates like you gotta put I think you put Jacob Parish like you follow him around with tedo McMillan or Maris seagull and then you have safety help over the top at all times you got you got four eyes on that guy you got two bodies keying in on him now the problem is knowah f is a hell of a quarterback and they've got other weapons as well but McMillan you cannot let beat you um 304 yards 10 receptions in the opener the highest ranked recruit in Arizona school history top 35 player you know there's there's mock drafts that have him ranked you know to go ahead of Luther Burton in the draft as the number one receiver taken he's expected to be a top five pick and he's a six foot five physical monster so it'll be a true test for this K State secondary in the defense but you're at home and uh it's good to get back home with a road wi under your belt and uh build on that and that'll only help them I know again it's not a daunting atmosphere but going on the road and winning a game will help them as they go into farther more intimidating environments as the season goes on with BYU in week four which won't be easy and then Colorado after that yeah the the problem with uh like I I'm I'm with you like hey Jacob Paris just go follow him the problem is Jacob Paris is going to give up like four or five inches there um potentially I don't what do they list Parish at is he like six foot that's that's the problem honestly they don't they don't have they don't have a will Lee or Julius Bren this year right so you don't have a 6 foot2 63 corner with that length now Jacob Parish has longer arms than I think a lot of people would expect so he's got some length to him uh Maris seagull might be your longest guy um and he's a guy that's played some Corner in his career but you might be better off having him still play safety and shadowing that end of the field now Kate also as Dy often points out doesn't typically have their Corner match up throughout the game they just keep their sides of the field and play it I don't know what the the game plan will be we'll hear from Chris kimman on Monday and uh eager to get Curry seon thoughts this week when we record our wrapup show and see what he thinks of the game we were texting with him some during the game today so be on the lookout for the show on Monday of this week that'll come out with curry seon as we assess the game and uh figure out who we got to interview for the player on this next week's show for the player interview brought to you by Riverbank brewing and Wildcat nil that we have on weekly throughout the Seas season so if you're new and watching us for the first time be sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel to Apple Spotify or anywhere where you're listening John who who should we have on as a player interview uh you got a you got an idea for this week uh I don't know fabus Roma um we haven't had romae on before so maybe we would uh maybe we do that we we'll figure that out um you don't think I'm gonna let you go without talking about what a gritty gritty win by Mike gundy's State Cowboys to come back from the dead at home against Arkansas to win that thing man what a game dude Allan Bowman made an incredible throw to get them down into uh for for a crucial late field goal in the game like and then got a 15 yard penalty for shooting finger guns at the at the sideline immature that's that my gy culture you know uh okay yeah I mean I was don't don't think I wasn't keeping you in mind when I was watching the score Ticker on the bottom and seeing Oklahoma State down 217 and seeing him struggle and double overtime it's everything I thought Oklahoma state was this year but I'm not in a position to talk after today's game against two lane necessarily uh K State comes out on top well so here's the thing Cole I was about to say what we learned today probably and I mean again all the things you said about K State hey it's great they came out with a win but I was about to say me Utah is just punishing Baylor crushing Baylor it was like 23 to nothing I think at halftime about to say like you know Utah clearly class of the league but cam ryzen got hurt yeah yeah that'll be interesting to monitor now it doesn't sound like it's a lower leg injury which he's suffered multiple knee injuries right yeah it's a hand so that's probably encouraging if you're a Utah fan that it well depends if it's a throwing hand but I would say this John just for perspective and look I'm glad Oklahoma State won the game it's against an SEC opponent I want the big 12 to do well except for Iowa State you know I'm enjoying them losing to Iowa that was my three wall lock of the week so it's kind of funny to to watch that go down again but what I would say for perspective for K State fans you guys see Bowling Green today against Penn State after all the talk about Penn State like we're talking here about K State you know being winning a game by seven on the road Penn State was at home coming off a blowout win over West Virginia and they were traing to Bowling Green in the fourth quarter a Max school and they end up winning 34-27 you know who's losing right now in the third quarter Northern Illinois is beating Notre Dame 13 to7 Okay Oklahoma state had to go to double overtime against an Arkansas team that didn't even make a bowl last year and it was in still water so like I I just think it's important Oregon last week beats Idaho 24 to4 Idaho's first season I believe transitioning to the FBS it's college football man there's a lot of parody and there's a lot of crazy things that happen and so anytime you get a win you're you're happy and you know there's a lot of teams that would be would be thrilled to get out of the game like that with a win so um I'm not happy with some of the things I saw for sure I'm not trying to make it a moral Victory type thing they got to get a lot of things corrected there were some alarm Bells going off in my head as I'm watching today's game but you just got to trust and hope that Chris Kleinman Joe clander and that defense can figure it out and the offense continues to grow and get better each week yeah I mean it's it's not a moral Victory it was it was a victory victory yeah no yeah you I mean I'm try I'm not I'm not trying to paint a complete Rosie picture I mean we talked if if people tuned in Midway through the show I mean I think we hammered the defense pretty hard in that first 10 to 15 minutes when we talked about I mean 4 191 yards a total offense and 7.4 yards per play and 34 points on 12 drives 2.83 points per drive that's those are numbers you can't have in the explosives were far too much today by the Kate defense nine plays of 20 yards are more allowed so they got to clean it up for sure uh my apologies to the Baylor Bears they scored three points in the first half so uh you disrespectful I'm sorry be I'm sorry danda that's that's my bad man uh all right well any uh any other final thoughts before we wrap it up here apologize that Dy couldn't have jump on but we'll get Dy on some of these postgame shows let me let me check real quick if uh see if he tweeted anything from the press conference have you seen any any quotes or anything no I'm I'm practicing my B here now with you uh John um Derek said Chris kman said the TD pass to DJ giddens on fourth down was actually a bubble that was defended well giddens and Avery Johnson both just improvised and made a play okay well that really right well yeah right now I mean like the the traditional just like sit back in the pocket stuff doesn't seem to work quite as well for Avery right now but you just get him being creative and making plays that that stuff seems to go pretty well yep yep and he is a three and0 and is a starter now so yeah it's good so that's not bad all right I was trying to see if any of the other guys only tweeted once he's got a he's got a step it up I'm not I'm not seeing much I'm not seeing much did Kell go I it looked like he was tweeting like a TV screen I don't and I don't see any you know what Kellis hasn't tweeted from the post game either so you know I also wonder if you know postgame took a little longer to to get wrapped up so I do didn't he say did he say something was like at a baseball stadium maybe that was a pregame meal I can't remember yeah he he said their postgame was just outside um Sim that's what it ku's had KU does postgame outside when we get K State on the road as you know so yeah kind of unorthodox but it's a life of the media man yeah yeah all right well we appreciate uh Nick making all this happen behind the scenes thanks to uh all of our great sponsors by the way I bot the rest of the oinko read so let me make sure that we shout out our friends at Al Linko for all your home improvement needs locally owned since 1986 based out of Kansas City Own by K Staters if you need new windows or a bathroom remodel they have premium window replacements and luckstone Shower systems they can do new sighting on your home and you don't need to be in Kansas City or Manhattan they'll go to Western Missouri northeast Kansas the entire Casey Metro go to Al Linko home.com that's alome.com alome.com to check out their services including free estimates they are great cats man I tell you what like they love the cats that's why they're sponsoring this show call Sam at 913 96121 65 and support some great case sters who support us here on the show HomeField holiday uh we appreciate everybody who helps bring this show to you uh yes for unfortunately no derck Young on the show here tonight but for Dy and Cole I am John thanks for listening to another edition of threea we will talk to you soon